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*** OFFICIAL*** Minnesota Vikings offseason thread (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter snellman
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Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
Does he really matter in this scheme?I mean when have 22 sacks mattered this little? I want Frazier and the Cover 2 gone. If that means a soon to be 30 year old DE has to go, so be it... I think the 3-4 is the only way to get "consistent" pressure on the QB, especially when your DBs are as pathetic as we have.
Herb
Footballguy
Wait. So you're calling for a change to the 3-4 in order to get consistent pressure? The Vikes LED THE NFL in sacks this year. They generate plenty of pressure from the 4-3. Their back 7 couldn't cover ANYONE. Switching to the 3-4 won't change that.
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
Yes, "Consistent" pressure. It seemed when teams wanted/needed to shut down the front 4 of the Vikings, they did as evident by our crappy Pass D. 50 sacks and yet the opposing offense still managed the best QB rating Vs. (107.6) and the most TDs (34). When you know where the rush is coming from (front 4) it's pretty easy to block or double team big Hoss. So while they tied for the league in Sacks did it really matter?
Herb
Footballguy
Yes... and no. The pass rush was not entirely consistent, but you're not going to sack every opponent 4-5 times per game. Some o-lines/QBs/TEs are better than others or game plan better than others to neutralize the pass rush... My point is that they generated pressure as well as anyone while playing the 4-3. They were horrendous in coverage. I would argue the worst in the NFL, although there were other teams that gave up more yards. That's much less a scheme issue and much more a personnel issue IMO. Changing to a scheme that neutralizes their best defender is cutting off their nose to spite an already very homely face. Good god, can you imagine the numbers they would have given up if their pass rush wasn't effective?
jestertj
Footballguy
The DBs weren't that terrible when Winfield was healthy, Griffin was fresh and Cook wasn't choking women. The safeties have been terrible for a long time, but when Asher Allen has to start alongside those terrible safeties and Griffin who was coming off of 2 ACL surgeries, the back 7 is going to get eaten up. 4-3/3-4 won't matter at that point.
Herb
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I like Ponder and all, but I wonder if they should consider trading up for Luck if they can.
Herb
Footballguy
Is this speculation on your part or did you hear/ read something? Oh, and
for so many reasons...
Herb
Footballguy
No, they shouldn't IMO. And also no RG3 if he's available at 3.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
RG3 and Luck aren't even close in talent.Ponder may develop into a fine quarterback but I don't think he can be elite. Luck will be at least that and possibly elite. I think you have to at least consider it.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Jeezus. For real?I am honestly thinking of giving up on this franchise.
DLR
Footballguy
Nothing new except the report of Manning not wanting to push back his 28 mil bonus date, meaning he will stay or be released, probability of being released rising.No connection to us and definitely no definite word on release, but man, are we not just the type of battered wife franchise that would go after another mess like this?Is this speculation on your part or did you hear/ read something? Oh, and
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The Kuhn
Footballguy
Well, at least he has experience with their current scheme...I think the O-line and Allen had more deflections than the DBs this season.
Herb
Footballguy
Yes. But Peyton wouldn't come near this mess if Cooper was the HC. The Vikes may have interest, but I assure you it would be one-sided.Nothing new except the report of Manning not wanting to push back his 28 mil bonus date, meaning he will stay or be released, probability of being released rising.No connection to us and definitely no definite word on release, but man, are we not just the type of battered wife franchise that would go after another mess like this?Is this speculation on your part or did you hear/ read something? Oh, and
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I am forced to look for the silver lining. He might be a good hiring. Prior to this year, Indy had 9 years of success. Indy like the Vikings don't spend a lot of high draft picks on DBs. Don't know the stats but I imagine the Colts defense was on the field the majority of the time with Curtis Painter throwing 3 and outs.'Andy Dufresne said:
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I would think that a team trying to turn around after 3-13 would pick someone who has been a coordinator already, not elevating a d-backs coach from a middling pass defense.
Bud Kilmer
Footballguy
'Andy Dufresne said:
encaitar
Footballguy
Wait, so let me get this straight. We go 3-13, tied for the worst 16 game season in Minnesota history. The only bright spot in the season is Jared Allen challenging for the sack record and combining with the rest of the line to lead the league in sacks. Every other area of the team under performed.
Yet, somehow, the only coach to lose his job is the coach of that vaunted D-line. The same D-line that might've broken an NFL record for sacks in the season if our secondary covered guys for more than 1.5 seconds? Wow, just wow. Is this Frasier's way of saying he wants Matt Barkley as the future QB of this team? Because it seems like we're setting up next year's failing already.
Yet, somehow, the only coach to lose his job is the coach of that vaunted D-line. The same D-line that might've broken an NFL record for sacks in the season if our secondary covered guys for more than 1.5 seconds? Wow, just wow. Is this Frasier's way of saying he wants Matt Barkley as the future QB of this team? Because it seems like we're setting up next year's failing already.
NBusiness
Footballguy
I agree and understand the disappointment in this thread because i too have suffered through the despicable last 2 years of football-but- lets all not overreact because they haven't completely cleaned house. Spielman has been promoted which clearly states he gets to make some big decisions this offseason that will hinge on his future with the team. In the NFL coaching staffs are very important, but personnel on the field is 20x more important. This is a defensive philosophy that 3-4 years ago sent out one of the top defenses in the NFL that eventually became a huge part of the team that should have won the 2009 NFC championship. Lets give Spielman and Frazier this offseason and training camp to establish what direction they want this team to go in. Because we all know that these 2, as well as every coach on Fraziers staff are connected at the hip , and will be gone if this team doesn't improve by leaps and bounds next year.
The 2 biggest problems on this team remain the same as they were one year ago- No talent on the OLine, and Not enough players in the secondary. If therse 2 issues are ignored like they were last offseason , don't worry viking fans, we will all be speculating on who the new coach will be one year from now.
But for now lets give these men the benefit of the doubt on their knowledge, and hope they can bring in the personnel to not make themselves look like idiots.
The 2 biggest problems on this team remain the same as they were one year ago- No talent on the OLine, and Not enough players in the secondary. If therse 2 issues are ignored like they were last offseason , don't worry viking fans, we will all be speculating on who the new coach will be one year from now.
But for now lets give these men the benefit of the doubt on their knowledge, and hope they can bring in the personnel to not make themselves look like idiots.
shamrock84
Footballguy
WAY too much doom and gloom in here. Can't wait for the draft. Khalil or a trade down is what I'm hoping for. I really could see them taking RG3 if they think he's a stud. A difference maker at QB can turn around a franchise quicker than anything else. I don't think he's that guy but I could see it if they believe.
sports_fan
Footballguy
Anything new on Chris Cook? I know he's a scumbag but he's also a good player. Will he be back?
snogger
Footballguy
Either way next season is the deciding moment of Frasier and he has to know that so he wouldn't have made this move if he didn't think it would work. If it works..
If not, he has no one else to blame so he is gone.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I can honestly say I don't understand a single thing the Vikes have done so far, or see any reason for hope.
They've promoted to GM a guy who was at least 1/3 responsible for current failure. Does anyone think our 1st year coach and capologist were 2/3 responsible for the state of the team?
The only coach fired was the coach of our one performing unit (DL).
They've hired a totally unproven 'coach's crony' as DC, while other teams are hiring proven coaches for the defensive coaching voids.
I couldn't possibly be more underwhelmed with the direction.
They've promoted to GM a guy who was at least 1/3 responsible for current failure. Does anyone think our 1st year coach and capologist were 2/3 responsible for the state of the team?
The only coach fired was the coach of our one performing unit (DL).
They've hired a totally unproven 'coach's crony' as DC, while other teams are hiring proven coaches for the defensive coaching voids.
I couldn't possibly be more underwhelmed with the direction.
griff321
Footballguy
I know Allen doesn't like the 3-4, but I'm pretty confident that he could get just about as many sacks out of the bicycle as having a hand in the dirt. The fact remains that we really don't have the hogs to run a 3-4..hell we don't have the guys to run a good 4-3. I know some people are unhappy with the idea of Manning, but I hope the Indy connection continues.
Our best shot at winning the super bowl is through a miraculous Manning recovery. At the worst it blows up and we get a good house cleaning in coaching and management to go with another high pick. Either way it's a lot better than a slightly improved repeat of last year's horror fest.
Our best shot at winning the super bowl is through a miraculous Manning recovery. At the worst it blows up and we get a good house cleaning in coaching and management to go with another high pick. Either way it's a lot better than a slightly improved repeat of last year's horror fest.
mozzy84
Footballguy
Debbie Downer
Footballguy
#### that guy. I say we cut him. He might be in jail fot three years anyway.
Jobber
Footballguy
Can someone explain to me exactly why the Metrodome site is being discussed as a location for the new stadium? I thought this whole time Arden Hills was a shoe-in. I HATE the Metrodome location.
Tailgating? NOPE
Parking? NOPE - find a ramp 6 blocks away and walk in the freezing cold to the game. Fun.
Tailgating? NOPE
Parking? NOPE - find a ramp 6 blocks away and walk in the freezing cold to the game. Fun.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Because Minneapolis politicians have more clout than non-Minneapolis politicians.
Jobber
Footballguy
Ah ok, that makes sense now. And of course the Governor is beholden to Minneapolis due to the fact that it's where he wins or loses the next election.
Jobber
Footballguy
Yep, that's it. I believe the area was fully vetted, all the plans are in place. And in the 11th hour, Minneapolis busted in and is demanding the new stadium be located on the Metrodome site.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Well, sort of. The official word is that the way that Ramsey County was trying to fund it, the taxes and whatnot, were a non-starter.
Which sucks because that location is no more than three miles from my house. We go bike riding on the paths around the old plant all the time.
Which sucks because that location is no more than three miles from my house. We go bike riding on the paths around the old plant all the time.
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snogger
Footballguy
The Vikings did have a deal at one time to take over Property that the Star & Tribune currently owns around the Metrodome. But once they thought they'd build elsewhere they removed the offer.Word has it if the Metrodome site becomes the site, they will probably look to buy that property back from Star & Tribune for parking, tailgating, etc.. At this point I don't give a bleep where they build it.. JUST BUILD IT!
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Call me crazy but I want the Vikings to take a chance on Cliff Harris with their compensation pick. He did some juvenile stuff and because he missed the latter part of the season is falling down the draft boards. In the following story, Harris is taking responsibility for his action and is showing maturity. http://www.registerguard.com/web/sports/27517186-41/harris-nfl-oregon-cliff-program.html.csp
+2i was very disappointed to see the speilman promotion. I'll give him his selections in the first round the past few years. Other than that, I have also been completely underwhelmed by his performance.
It seems like we have absolutely no depth on this team and feel that we will be "rebuilding" for quite awhile. This is a huge draft coming up - hoping for the best, but expecting a safe play with the 3rd pick and questionable selections after that.
snogger
Footballguy
Good
I would expect the Browns and the Redskins to talk to the Rams and the Vikings to move up and get Robert Griffin III.If the Rams don't trade down, the Vikings phone will start ringing.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I have always been envious of the way some teams keep finding undrafted free agents that become key contributors. In other words, damonds in the rough. I can't find to much fault with what Spielman has done at the top of the draft but the Vikings scouts have been woeful at finding undrafted free agents. I wonder if they are showing too much loyalty to their drafted players. I can't believe how long they held on to Ryan Cook hoping for him to develop. Their defensive backs were depleted due to injury this year and the best player they come up with is Benny Sapp. Despite being cut by the Dolphins, Sapp played better than most of the Vikings drafted corner backs. Just sad.
I found this article interesting: http://liveballsport...e-from-the-nfc/
I found this article interesting: http://liveballsport...e-from-the-nfc/
In my honest opinion, the Vikings are the worst team at finding talent from undrafted player pool. Is finding quality players from the scrap heap just luck? As a fan of the team, I am here waiting patiently for the next John Randle to appear.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
The Patriots have 18 undrafted free agents. EIGHTEEN!
Some (a lot?) of their success has to do with good coaching, which I don't think the Vikings have had for a long, long, LONG time.
Some (a lot?) of their success has to do with good coaching, which I don't think the Vikings have had for a long, long, LONG time.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
I am not sure if I buy that. I assume that Bengarvis Green-Ellis and Laurence Maroney had the same amount of coaching during their time with the Patriots. One thing I like about the Patriots, they leave no stone unturned when looking for players that can help their team.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Cherrypick much?'Donnybrook said:
Jules Winnfield
Footballguy
Bethel College?
mr roboto
Footballguy
Yep. University now.
Heatman
Footballguy
Exactly their best coaches have all been DCs who went on to coach other teams. It would be nice to actually have a coach who can run a team on Sunday.
The Gatekeeper
Footballguy
Got a bad feeling about all this trade down talk. Yeah we have alot of holes to fill but I really believe we have to come away from this draft with Kalil, RG3, Blackmon, or Claiborne and if we go down to #6 where the Redskins are then I think we miss on all 4. Yeah we pick up some picks but seriously after the 1st Round Spielman sucks badly. I think there are 6 superstars in this draft and Luck and Richardson are out because of availability or need so we need 1 of the other 4 I mentioned earlier. Now if we could drop to #4 where Cleveland swaps with us and pickup some picks I would love that but I keep hearing that Daniel Snyder is hell bent on trading up for RG3. What are your guys thoughts on how far is too far to move back and still get a great player?
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