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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (3 Viewers)

steelwind said:
I am a Doctson/Pryor owner so I have watched the highlights this year.  To me it looks like Cousins is padding his stats by taking the safe underneath dink/dunks.  I think he's doing so for that long term contract.  A great example is if you look at the 4th down throw last night with 20 sec left Cousins would rather throw it away instead of trying for the 1st down so he won't have an Int under his game log.

If Wash has a lead this is a way to move the ball.  If Wash falls behind they don't have the ability to keep pace.  Therefore, the offense is one dimensional.  Down by 2 scores Cousins wasted so much time dinking/dunking.  It makes sense that Thompson and the TEs are the leading receivers.  But this game script and Cousins' selfishness will make your lose the division.
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I don't agree with a lot of this.

 
steelwind said:
I am a Doctson/Pryor owner so I have watched the highlights this year.  To me it looks like Cousins is padding his stats by taking the safe underneath dink/dunks.  I think he's doing so for that long term contract.  A great example is if you look at the 4th down throw last night with 20 sec left Cousins would rather throw it away instead of trying for the 1st down so he won't have an Int under his game log.
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I like Cousins and all, but I thought the last throw out of bounds was a stat saver.  Looking for a miracle and instead throw it 10 yards out of bounds?

That whole last series was lame.  They needed a miracle, so why not try for one?  Throw a bomb on first down and hope for a big play or a PI.  You see that kind of stuff all the time now and I think it is because most QBs are really stat conscious.

 
simey said:
I don't agree with a lot of this.
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Full disclosure:  I didn't see the game last night.

But based on the OTHER games I've seen, I do think we're relying a lot on backs and TEs, but that may be because he's taking what the defense is giving him.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown comparison this year vs. last year when he had Garcon and Jackson.

I also think the absence of Garcon and Jackson is impacting Crowder.

My general sense of Cousins is when the Skins are behind, he can actually move the team pretty quickly down the field.  His issue is not that he wastes too much time dinking and dunking.  His issue is that he's not great at creating plays when there is nothing going on.  Maybe it's related, but not exactly the same thing...

 
I know the chances aren't very likely, but is it possible no one has told Kirk Cousins that he can THROW THE DAMN BALL OUT OF BOUNDS if everyone is covered?

 
tangfoot said:
Washington looked pretty good at times.  The 1st half of the game was like a heavyweight fight with the two boxers feeling each other out.  They seemed very evenly matched.
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Well, a heavy weight fight if boxing had refs that could throw flags all over the ring and totally ruin the flow of the match.

 
Kirk is throwing the dink and dunks because the receivers suck. Letting both Garçon and Jackson go was a colossal mistake. They had to keep one (I would have kept Garçon for his toughness). The combination of Reed and Davis with Thompson could be so deadly but because the wideouts are so average they can't get off. 

 
Philadelphia had the better coach, the better QB, and the better team. Redskins did what they frequently do --- start strong, then hold even, then just slowly go dead for a long time before trying to rally. With all the injuries they had no hope of beating the Eagles; that was pretty clear by halftime.

They went into their bye 2-2, came out flat, barely beat a bad SF team that the Cowboys flattened, and lost to the Eagles in a game that was not close. I think they're headed for a slide right now, and the injuries make it more likely.

Gruden never coaches like the game's on the line. He never uses the clock to the team's advantage. His offense usually starts fast and then goes dead for too long. He won't stick with the run enough for it to make any difference.

None of our tight ends can block at all. That has a negative impact on the running game also. And the lack of Garcon and Jackson just shortens the field opposing defenses have to cover, just like it did when Jackson was hurt (last year or the previous year, I forget which). Without those 2 receivers Crowder is open less and open on shallower patterns. Reed's done next to nothing. Doctson and Pryor are a huge step down from Garcon and Jackson. Grant is an adequate 2nd string WR, who's a starter. This will probably be the biggest stat year of his career, and his stats are paltry. Cousins is just a guy who's putting up a fair amount of yardage but isn't winning any games for the team.

Some of us saw this coming --- that losing Garcon and Jackson would have a major damper on the offense. We'll be seeing that all season, and the running game will not get going all season due to bad blocking TE's.

Losing John Allen hurt terribly. And the O-line injuries, depending on severity, could hurt as much or worse.

And the worst part is that, if the team loses every remaining game, Bruce Allen will keep his job even though he made this personnel mess.

 
Oh and Cousin's arm got hit on that late INT. 

 OK that's all the defending of Redskins I can do for now. Good luck on Sunday guys, I'll be in attendance. I'll be one of the very few non-obnoxious cowboy fans. 

 
As usual, good post Fatness.

Looks like the 'Skins are a one point dog on Sunday. Rain in the forecast as of today. Like an 80% chance.

 
Is this Sunday's game at home vs. Dallas our second "Code Red" game of the year?  I don't think either team is catching Philly, but the winner can start to position themselves for a Wild Card run. The loser...I think they are on a slow burn to 8-8 or lower and unmet expectations...

 
MikeApf said:
Is this Sunday's game at home vs. Dallas our second "Code Red" game of the year?  I don't think either team is catching Philly, but the winner can start to position themselves for a Wild Card run. The loser...I think they are on a slow burn to 8-8 or lower and unmet expectations...
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Nah. Too early for a 500 team with only 1 straight loss to have a code red. Lose here though and the Seattle one probably is. 

 
Sebowski said:
Nah. Too early for a 500 team with only 1 straight loss to have a code red. Lose here though and the Seattle one probably is. 
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On the plus side, our losses are to Philly twice and Kansas City once.  And 2 of the those games were really in the balance at the end.  So the team has real potential.  But needs to get healthy.

 
MikeApf said:
I hope for his sake, Williams takes care of his health first.  I want the Skins to win, but not at the expense of these guys being crippled in their middle age.  He's a tough guy.
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Agree. Selfishly, I’d like him to gut it out until Nsekhe is ready to come back, but he needs to make sure he doesn’t make things worse. 

 
I wish I had any confidence they could beat Dallas, but I don't. Just way to banged up. It would be tough if they were healthy. Losing Allen was just such a big hit.

 
thayman said:
Someone is going to have to explain to me why Kirk Cousins should be the highest paid QB in the league.
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Because it's "his turn". 

Since this team isn't going anywhere this year, ride Cousins out and continue to let Gruden do his thing... lose football games. We'll be starting over at QB next year, so every loss puts us in a better position. 

Havent beat Dallas at home since 2012.

 
thayman said:
Soooo there's a few injuries.......
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At this point, I can't even see the next game as a must win game.  There are just so many injuries that I feel all they can do right now is try to be competitive and hope to get a lucky bounce.  I mean, they must win if they want to make a Wild Card run, but are such hopes even realistic at this point?  I know that every team has injuries, but this is ridiculous and hard to overcome.

Too bad because through the first four games, they really looked like they were building a decent team based on a very stout defense and a ball control offense with some passes thrown in from a solid but not spectacular QB, which is not the worst way to build a team for the playoffs.  My biggest hope is that even though injuries have hobbled them, that they continue this trajectory of building, particularly on the defensive side of the ball.

Just hope they can try to play a close, competitive game in Seattle and maybe get a lucky bounce to steal a win.  If they can just hobble to the half way point at 4-4 and try to get some guys back you still have a shot to make a run.  But I'd be lying if I said I was entirely optimistic at this point...

 
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avoiding injuries said:
Because it's "his turn". 

Since this team isn't going anywhere this year, ride Cousins out and continue to let Gruden do his thing... lose football games. We'll be starting over at QB next year, so every loss puts us in a better position. 

Havent beat Dallas at home since 2012.
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With Garrapolo to the 49ers, and Goff playing well in Los Angeles, it looks like mass pundit predictions that Cousins would sign with one of those teams has taken a hit.

More likely at this point IMO is a team like the Cardinals, who may think that the rest of the team is ready to make a run and all they need is a QB.  Denver is in that boat but Elway is too smart to pay big $$ for Cousins.  Then, you have teams like the Jets, the Browns and so on.  But if I'm getting a high first round pick, and rebuilding,  I'm looking around the league and seeing Goff, Watson, Wentz and wondering if signing a near 30 year old Cousins is really the smartest move.

I do think someone will pay him.  Someone always does.  At this point, from what I've seen,unless there is just a miraculous turnaround, I don't think it's going to be here, and my honest guess is that he signs with someone like the Cardinals for less than what he thought he would make, and maybe even less than the Skins offered him this last offseason.

But, the season isn't over yet.  The Redskins are 3-4 and can still go anywhere from 3-13 to 12-4, so gotta take one game at a time and see how this thing plays out...

 
MikeApf said:
At this point, I can't even see the next game as a must win game.  There are just so many injuries that I feel all they can do right now is try to be competitive and hope to get a lucky bounce.  I mean, they must win if they want to make a Wild Card run, but are such hopes even realistic at this point?  I know that every team has injuries, but this is ridiculous and hard to overcome.

Too bad because through the first four games, they really looked like they were building a decent team based on a very stout defense and a ball control offense with some passes thrown in from a solid but not spectacular QB, which is not the worst way to build a team for the playoffs.  My biggest hope is that even though injuries have hobbled them, that they continue this trajectory of building, particularly on the defensive side of the ball.

Just hope they can try to play a close, competitive game in Seattle and maybe get a lucky bounce to steal a win.  If they can just hobble to the half way point at 4-4 and try to get some guys back you still have a shot to make a run.  But I'd be lying if I said I was entirely optimistic at this point...
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agreed.  not to mention we are 0-3 in the division and 2-3 in the conference.  seems very unlikely.  However, i will say i have been impressed with the competitiveness of the team even with injuries.  I like the young talent i see.  I think we are slowly moving in the right direction, especially on defense.  Is it too early to ponder what will happen with Kirk?  :shrug:

 
MikeApf said:
With Garrapolo to the 49ers, and Goff playing well in Los Angeles, it looks like mass pundit predictions that Cousins would sign with one of those teams has taken a hit.

More likely at this point IMO is a team like the Cardinals, who may think that the rest of the team is ready to make a run and all they need is a QB.  Denver is in that boat but Elway is too smart to pay big $$ for Cousins.  Then, you have teams like the Jets, the Browns and so on.  But if I'm getting a high first round pick, and rebuilding,  I'm looking around the league and seeing Goff, Watson, Wentz and wondering if signing a near 30 year old Cousins is really the smartest move.

I do think someone will pay him.  Someone always does.  At this point, from what I've seen,unless there is just a miraculous turnaround, I don't think it's going to be here, and my honest guess is that he signs with someone like the Cardinals for less than what he thought he would make, and maybe even less than the Skins offered him this last offseason.

But, the season isn't over yet.  The Redskins are 3-4 and can still go anywhere from 3-13 to 12-4, so gotta take one game at a time and see how this thing plays out...
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yea i want to focus on the defense.  History has proven you can be successful with a great defense and a serviceable qb.  Id like to go that direction and then hope we catch a break and find a qb along the way. 

 
PinkydaPimp said:
agreed.  not to mention we are 0-3 in the division and 2-3 in the conference.  seems very unlikely.  However, i will say i have been impressed with the competitiveness of the team even with injuries.  I like the young talent i see.  I think we are slowly moving in the right direction, especially on defense.  Is it too early to ponder what will happen with Kirk?  :shrug:
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Well, too early for players and coaches, who still have a chance to win now.  So for them, there should be no thought of benching Kirk to get Colt reps.   Team is not eliminated from playoff contention and Kirk gives us the best chance to win most likely.

But, as for fans, NOT TO EARLY!  While I think we have a SHOT at the playoffs, I think they are probably a long shot with all the injuries we've suffered and so I think it's worthwhile to think about what happens if we miss the playoffs.  I think in that case, then there is ZERO chance we sign Kirk for 26 million +.  He'd have to come down from that position but I aint seeing it.  I just hope he chooses to go somewhere like Arizona replacing Palmer and not NY Giants replacing Eli.  Nor do I think we should pay him big bucks.  Going into this season, I wanted to sign him for 24 + but this next go around he's going to want 26 million plus and at that point I think the cap money is better spent continuing to upgrade other positions.  I think in the short term, we'll go with Colt, who like Kirk is solid but not spectacular, but long term we'll draft a guy.  When I look at Colt vs. Kirk I don't think Colt is better but he is DIFFERENT.  I think Kirk has a stronger arm and he's very sturdy.  But while Colt doesn't have as strong an arm, he may actually be better at improvising on the fly, something that Kirk struggled with.  The concern I have with McCoy is arms strength for some throws and not as sturdy.  I don't think Colt is long term answer but for a year, sure.  While Colt is holding the fort, try to shore up other positions -- add defensive depth, offensive line depth, draft a Running Back for god's sake, and maybe a receiver who can actually catch and stay healthy.  Lots of needs still...that's why we need the cap space...

What do you all think?

 
MikeApf said:
Well, too early for players and coaches, who still have a chance to win now.  So for them, there should be no thought of benching Kirk to get Colt reps.   Team is not eliminated from playoff contention and Kirk gives us the best chance to win most likely.

But, as for fans, NOT TO EARLY!  While I think we have a SHOT at the playoffs, I think they are probably a long shot with all the injuries we've suffered and so I think it's worthwhile to think about what happens if we miss the playoffs.  I think in that case, then there is ZERO chance we sign Kirk for 26 million +.  He'd have to come down from that position but I aint seeing it.  I just hope he chooses to go somewhere like Arizona replacing Palmer and not NY Giants replacing Eli.  Nor do I think we should pay him big bucks.  Going into this season, I wanted to sign him for 24 + but this next go around he's going to want 26 million plus and at that point I think the cap money is better spent continuing to upgrade other positions.  I think in the short term, we'll go with Colt, who like Kirk is solid but not spectacular, but long term we'll draft a guy.  When I look at Colt vs. Kirk I don't think Colt is better but he is DIFFERENT.  I think Kirk has a stronger arm and he's very sturdy.  But while Colt doesn't have as strong an arm, he may actually be better at improvising on the fly, something that Kirk struggled with.  The concern I have with McCoy is arms strength for some throws and not as sturdy.  I don't think Colt is long term answer but for a year, sure.  While Colt is holding the fort, try to shore up other positions -- add defensive depth, offensive line depth, draft a Running Back for god's sake, and maybe a receiver who can actually catch and stay healthy.  Lots of needs still...that's why we need the cap space...

What do you all think?
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im ok with colt short term.  Especially if we continue to build our lines.  Now that we have a much better (i guess i can call it good when healthy, that sounds weird) o-line now is the time we can develop a QB and set them up for success. 

I do hope kirk comes down because i like him and i think he is a good qb.  Just not good enough to command the money he wants. 

 
I have come to the conclusion that if the skins were really interested in continuing their relationship w Cousins, they wouldn't have jettisoned both DJax/Pierre. They hamstrung him right out of the gate with Pryor miscast as a true #1, a guy who we now know is still developing fundamental wr skills, a 2nd year wr in Doctson who is really playing his rookie season with no credible help on the other side of the field, and a serviceable running game that's far from dynamic. Complimentary, at best, rather than a legitimate stand alone threat that has to be game-planned for. Kirk fails, move on with relatively little fallout from a largely not perceptive current fanbase. Kirk succeeds with the cast he's working with, some Team delivers an offer they have no desire to refuse. Problem solved. No more paying 1 yr deals that Cousins is satisfied with. The injuries are just a favorable (for Snyder/Allen) circumstance may help potentially expedite the process.

You guys talking up Colt McCoy...I don't think he's remotely an option of any kind, short or long term. There is no buzz about him around the League. He is neither more skilled or more athletically gifted than any starting NFL QB...maybe what's being trotted out in Browns, 9'ers, Texans, Broncos is worse. Drew Stanton is probably a very reasonable comp. There is no upside there. Nothing dynamic. Nothing threatening to a defense. Kirk may have issues, but any legitimate NFL talent evaluator will tell you that Cousins is the better NFL QB with a higher ceiling by a wide margin. Josh McCown and Jacoby Brissett are better than McCoy by a measurable increment. A game film or two of McCoy and he's solved by every competent D Coord in the League. You think it's bad now? Wait til you've had a few weeks of watching that.

I like Kirk as a person and I admire him as a player, and I think there are better coaches out there who could raise his level of play and realize his potential. Arians would be tremendous for Kirk, for example. I actually want him to move on, because I think it would be better for him, even for less money. I have no love or respect for Snyder/Allen, and Ive had about enough of Jay.

More and more, I'm finding myself rooting more for the players than I am for the Team. Maybe it's the political circus surrounding the election cycle correspoding with all the Cousins drama. There's a place in my heart for any player who dons the b&g in the current era.

From what I'm hearing from the fellow season ticket holders I stay in contact with from our section, who still go to games, the game-day experience is the worst it's ever been. Overrun with foreign invaders. There are other NFL cities fielding teams that lose more than they win regularly. I'm told by folks I trust that there are things (besides winning) that Owners can do to prevent opposing fans from populating the stadium outside of a reasonable degree. Aggressive fan-favorable buyback programs. Community centered redistribution of said tickets. Business arrangements with ticket brokers, for example. It happens elsewhere. It doesn't appear to happen here. It does appear that Snyder doesn't give a crap, and the fish that stinks, stinks from the head, down.

 
I'm reluctant to watch the Seattle game today. I think they'll get crushed. I just hope more of them don't get injured; that would be a victory.

This began as a hopeful season but the hopeful part is over. They'll struggle to get to 6 wins. Cooley and Sheehan have begun switching from Redskins talk back to Kirk Cousins talk, so you can tell they've given up hope on the season.

I'll disagree with nittanylion about Garcon and Jackson. I heard part of the reason the team was so willing to let them go was that they were somehow a "threat" to Cousins's leadership.

Really, Garcon and Jackson were parts of Cousins's success. So was a not-injured Jordan Reed. We see how he looks now with average or below average receivers. Lots of teams have average or below average receivers.

There are a lot of individual players I root for. Breeland, who's been terrific this year. Zach Brown, who gets exposed in pass coverage but is just all over the field making plays. Nicholson who has been a real surprise. John Allen -- really sorry to see him injured, the entire defense took a hit when that happened. The entire o-line (except Lauvao who I think has always been a dud).

I feel really sorry for Garcon. His team loses every game and then he's hurt and out for the year. He should still be here. I've seen enough Gruden. His coaching loses as many or more games than it wins. If Cousins wants to sign for average money (he won't) then keep him; otherwise let him go, draft a rookie, sign a vet, keep McCoy. Paying $26 million/year for a QB to lead you to 8 wins is pissing money away.

 
I'm hurting at WR so I scooped up and started Grant with Reed and Crowder out. Look for all the balls to go to Doctson and Pryor. And Big Play Davis! Forgot about him. 

 
Sebowski said:
I'm hurting at WR so I scooped up and started Grant with Reed and Crowder out. Look for all the balls to go to Doctson and Pryor. And Big Play Davis! Forgot about him. 
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yea i got davis goin today.  I think he has a solid day.  Would like to think Grant will get most receptions and Docson/davis get most tds.  curious to see how it plays out.

 
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Redskins inactives: LT Trent Williams, TE Jordan Reed, WR Jamison Crowder, TE Niles Paul, DL Matt Ioannidis, C Spencer Long, G Shawn Lauvao.

:lmao: :cry:  

 
Nsekhe is active...because he has to be. Active despite being doubtful all week and hasn’t practiced since week 3, according to Keim. 

 
Nicholson is active but not dressed and won’t play. Not sure I remember seeing that happen before. 

 
that was a scrappy win!  Love the way the D played today and love the Doctson catch.  Slowly he is coming along.  I am impressed overall with how the team played with all the injuries.  We may not be playoff bound, but i do like what i see from this young team. 

 
Crazy game, crazy victory. Regardless of all the flaws, injuries, and questions...this team is still playing their hearts out for Gruden. That's more than you can say for the Giants and their HC, so I guess I should pump the brakes on my Gruden criticism and just hope that we can get healthy and draft/sign some more talent this offseason if Kirk continues to look good the rest of the year. He really looked like crap other than two good drives today, but he got it done when it mattered

 
From Rich Tandler

This was the first time since at least 1999 that the #Redskins have started a game-winning TD drive with less than two-minutes left to play.

 
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