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***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (1 Viewer)

Isnt it bernard who tells delores about the maze?  And isnt that in the "present day" timeline?  And she is searching for the maze with william, right?
Is it in present day?

Maybe.

I have an alternate theory I mentioned in a previous spoiler box.

And even if it is present day, just because Bernard is like, "Hey girl, you should check out this maze thing" doesn't mean Delores never heard of it before.  She could've rolled her eyes and said, "Yeah, I heard we landed on the moon too!" but she's too nice and also programmed to a setting prior to the moon landing.

 
The thing that cuts against the t-30ish is that when Delores is put under the sleep spell and Ford has his conversation with her - that is presumably when she was with William - and in her "dream" she tells Ford that Arnold died 34 years ago - strongly suggesting she is in the present day with William.
Um, why is that presumably while she was with William?  I did not presume that.  In fact, I think it is highly unlikely that she would be pulled for underground nude conversations in the middle of travelling with guests (wouldn't they notice?).

 
Um, why is that presumably while she was with William?  I did not presume that.  In fact, I think it is highly unlikely that she would be pulled for underground nude conversations in the middle of travelling with guests (wouldn't they notice?).
Lots of slight of hand in this show to throw us off of when things are happening. 

 
Um, why is that presumably while she was with William?  I did not presume that.  In fact, I think it is highly unlikely that she would be pulled for underground nude conversations in the middle of travelling with guests (wouldn't they notice?).
Well, we saw her go off in the parade, where someone whispered the magic words that put her in sleep mode.

we then cut to Ford talking to her - sure it could be fancy editing, but I think ford was talking to her in her dreams.  

I did not rule out t-30 completely, only that the particular sequence in that scene cut against it.   I think the later scene with her on the train points to two separate timelines, so it was a push this week. 

 
I guess I should add, I don't think they are always physically pulled into the shop.  I think Bernard and Ford can talk to the hosts remotely - they are the voices in the hosts head. 

 
I have to watch again but I thought this episode put the multiple timelines theory to bed, at least in part.

William and his friend are supposed to be in the N-30 timeline, right?

But in the "present" timeline people talk about the disaster that happened 30 years ago that killed Arnold and almost destroyed the park. Well William's friend I believe also mentioned that there was a disaster 30 years ago, if I'm remembering correctly. Which would put them in the current timeline with everyone else.

Either way, I love this show so much.

 
I have to watch again but I thought this episode put the multiple timelines theory to bed, at least in part.

William and his friend are supposed to be in the N-30 timeline, right?

But in the "present" timeline people talk about the disaster that happened 30 years ago that killed Arnold and almost destroyed the park. Well William's friend I believe also mentioned that there was a disaster 30 years ago, if I'm remembering correctly. Which would put them in the current timeline with everyone else.

Either way, I love this show so much.
Logan mentions Arnold's death (he doesn't know his name, just calls him one of the partners).  Elsewhere in the episode, they make clear that Arnold killed himself 35 years before the "current" timeframe, right before the park opened, apparently.  In the pilot, they mention the "incident" at the park was 30 years ago.   So it doesn't put the multiple timeframe (nerds are having aneurisms when I misuse "timeline" so let's go with "timeframe") to bed.  It seems to reinforce it. 

 
I guess I should add, I don't think they are always physically pulled into the shop.  I think Bernard and Ford can talk to the hosts remotely - they are the voices in the hosts head. 
I think that's a representation of the "bicameral mind" theory that they mention in episode 2.  That's an old theory of the development of consciousness that said that our ancestors had an "acting mind" and a "listening mind."  As the theory goes, when our ancestors were spurred to action, they didn't perceive it as their own choice.  They perceived it as a command from an external God-like "voice" in their head. 

The title of the season finale is The Bicameral Mind
 
I have no idea where this is headed, but it's plausible, to me, that something is going on in a William/Logan timeframe - where something goes wrong - Logan is killed, and William by marrying into the family takes over the business, and thus invests in the park...leading to the MIB story, years later. 

I think there are lots of things that point to that potential story arc, and I believe there are many things that point away from that being a story arc.  I certainly don't think it's clear either way.

 
Well, we saw her go off in the parade, where someone whispered the magic words that put her in sleep mode.

we then cut to Ford talking to her - sure it could be fancy editing, but I think ford was talking to her in her dreams.  

I did not rule out t-30 completely, only that the particular sequence in that scene cut against it.   I think the later scene with her on the train points to two separate timelines, so it was a push this week. 
I think the Lawrence bit tilted this week in favor of 2 timelines.

 
I guess I should add, I don't think they are always physically pulled into the shop.  I think Bernard and Ford can talk to the hosts remotely - they are the voices in the hosts head. 
Interesting concept.  Like the host and the interviewer are interacting in like a VR setting or something?  Maybe.  Kinda cuts against what we've seen otherwise though.

 
I have to watch again but I thought this episode put the multiple timelines theory to bed, at least in part.

William and his friend are supposed to be in the N-30 timeline, right?

But in the "present" timeline people talk about the disaster that happened 30 years ago that killed Arnold and almost destroyed the park. Well William's friend I believe also mentioned that there was a disaster 30 years ago, if I'm remembering correctly. Which would put them in the current timeline with everyone else.

Either way, I love this show so much.
Actually, they reference a disaster that happened 30 years ago.

And Arnold's death which was 34 years and some change ago.

ie. We know Arnold's death was NOT the disaster.  That is something else.

ETA: William's friend references a partner dying/suiciding in the park.  He does NOT put a timestamp on it.  So, it could've been 4 years prior or 34 years prior.

 
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My biggest problem with two timelines...

wouldn't the park have advanced a bit in 30 years?  I mean we cant tell anything is different, I'm assuming that there would be huge strides in the AI and the look of the robots. I don't completely dismiss the two timelines option because they've obviously not been showing William and Logan interacting with others that would be considered current, but it just seems like some things would be more advanced. 

 
My biggest problem with two timelines...

wouldn't the park have advanced a bit in 30 years?  I mean we cant tell anything is different, I'm assuming that there would be huge strides in the AI and the look of the robots. I don't completely dismiss the two timelines option because they've obviously not been showing William and Logan interacting with others that would be considered current, but it just seems like some things would be more advanced. 
Have you been to Disneyworld recently. Pretty much looks like it did when I went in 1993

ETA: Really, the only thing that needs to change is the storyline. Not so much the setting so I can see staus quo on that

 
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My biggest problem with two timelines...

wouldn't the park have advanced a bit in 30 years?  I mean we cant tell anything is different, I'm assuming that there would be huge strides in the AI and the look of the robots. I don't completely dismiss the two timelines option because they've obviously not been showing William and Logan interacting with others that would be considered current, but it just seems like some things would be more advanced. 
It may not be 30 years. 

We know Dolores was around (and the ONLY host still around) 34 years ago when Arnold "committed suicide."

 
Have you been to Disneyworld recently. Pretty much looks like it did when I went in 1993

ETA: Really, the only thing that needs to change is the storyline. Not so much the setting so I can see staus quo on that
Ok, but Disneyworld is a throw-back. This is supposed to be cutting edge technology.  There's nothing like this in the real world obviously but parks that aren't throwbacks, like Universal Studios, have changed a good bit in 30 years. 

 
It may not be 30 years. 

We know Dolores was around (and the ONLY host still around) 34 years ago when Arnold "committed suicide."
That's fine. I think they'll address this theory one way or the other eventually. Part of me thinks shows like this plant someone on Reddit to post theories that they already know the answer to so they can get people discussing/hyped about the show. 

 
One of the things that cuts - literally - against MIB being 30 years forward, is that he talks about killing/cutting early hosts, and they were parts inside, instead of the current blood and guts.  Seems like we have seen some blood from the stage coach robbery, and Logan killing the sheriff/lawman, but I don't recall for certain.

 
My biggest problem with two timelines...

wouldn't the park have advanced a bit in 30 years?  I mean we cant tell anything is different, I'm assuming that there would be huge strides in the AI and the look of the robots. I don't completely dismiss the two timelines option because they've obviously not been showing William and Logan interacting with others that would be considered current, but it just seems like some things would be more advanced. 
I can see that, but it feels like they've covered that when ford says "this is as good as we get" iirc, or something along those lines. 

The park itself needs to remain the same and not advance because of technology. They've already showed an issue with a satellite up-link in a Western time frame, let alone if they modernized it too much

 
One of the things that cuts - literally - against MIB being 30 years forward, is that he talks about killing/cutting early hosts, and they were parts inside, instead of the current blood and guts.  Seems like we have seen some blood from the stage coach robbery, and Logan killing the sheriff/lawman, but I don't recall for certain.
I think the early ones had blood still, just not as much as later ones?  Don't really know.

 
My biggest problem with two timelines...

wouldn't the park have advanced a bit in 30 years?  I mean we cant tell anything is different, I'm assuming that there would be huge strides in the AI and the look of the robots. I don't completely dismiss the two timelines option because they've obviously not been showing William and Logan interacting with others that would be considered current, but it just seems like some things would be more advanced. 
Isn't that robot that Ford drinks with downstairs one of the early models?

 
So - what the deal with hosts shooting guests?  When they shoot MIB - nothing happens, he's unfazed.  When they shoot William, he gets knocked back - there was a tangible, if non-lethal, impact to it.

 
I guess I should add, I don't think they are always physically pulled into the shop.  I think Bernard and Ford can talk to the hosts remotely - they are the voices in the hosts head. 
Yes. Dolores is the only host they always ask "Do you know where you are? Yes, a dream. If you want to wake up, you have to answer these questions correctly."

 
Logan mentions Arnold's death (he doesn't know his name, just calls him one of the partners).  Elsewhere in the episode, they make clear that Arnold killed himself 35 years before the "current" timeframe, right before the park opened, apparently.  In the pilot, they mention the "incident" at the park was 30 years ago.   So it doesn't put the multiple timeframe (nerds are having aneurisms when I misuse "timeline" so let's go with "timeframe") to bed.  It seems to reinforce it. 
Pretty sure that they say there hasn't been an incident in "over 30 years", which could very well mean 35 years ago.

Obviously I could be wrong but I'd be very surprised if the "incident 30 years ago" and "Arnold dying in the park and almost destroying it" weren't the same event.

I think I'm off the multiple timeline bandwagon after that latest episode, have to rewatch though.

 
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So - what the deal with hosts shooting guests?  When they shoot MIB - nothing happens, he's unfazed.  When they shoot William, he gets knocked back - there was a tangible, if non-lethal, impact to it.
In an earlier episode where William gets shot they show he has an actual bruise, meaning they are using rubber bullets or something along those lines. As far as MIB goes, I think it's just that he's been shot a million times over by now and is like an experienced paintball player out there. The shots do knock him back a bit, they just don't seem to cause him much pain.

 
I guess I should add, I don't think they are always physically pulled into the shop.  I think Bernard and Ford can talk to the hosts remotely - they are the voices in the hosts head. 
Interesting concept.  Like the host and the interviewer are interacting in like a VR setting or something?  Maybe.  Kinda cuts against what we've seen otherwise though.
haven't rewatched episodes, but I have noticed that during the interviews the hosts are sometimes clothed and usually naked. maybe the clothed episodes are remote?

 
At this point I think its clear that the creators don't want you to understand exactly how every scene fits together.  Its definitely non-linear story telling.  Last night's episode seemed to be pretty clear about that, IMO.  I'm not sure it will even qualify as a "twist" or "reveal" at this point after the Lawrence stuff. 

I do understand the criticism that the show hasn't really given you a character to care about.  At a certain point, the show has to say something compelling about the relationship between the guests and the hosts.  I do think that if the fan theories are right, we'll get something that is thought provoking and maybe even moving. 

We know that William isn't comfortable treating Dolores as just a Host.  He doesn't just see her as an NPC.  We know that Delores at some point appears to be moving toward self-consciousness.  We know that William is an EVP of a company headed by Logan.  We know that company is considering a heavy investment in the park.  We know the MiB credits himself for "saving" the park at some time. So what if Dolores's awakening sparks a robot uprising that threatens the very future of the park.  And what if William, forced to choose to save his possible investment and status with Delos in the "real world" has to "kill" a self-aware Dolores to do so?  He literally has to embrace his role as a villain and the only way to really live with himself afterwards is to embrace what Logan has been telling him.  That the Hosts are not human.  They're just NPCs.  They don't have souls that can be sinned against.  And once William convinces himself of that, he becomes a gamer.  Someone obsessed with "solving" the game and unconcerned with the cost on the hosts. 
And how about all those boobs!

 
This show, along with several others, is really proving that television is now the best way to tell an intricate story.  TV is officially better than movies.
I used to be a huge movie nut.  I have barely watched any in 10 years.

 
I'm a bit behind, only just watched Ep.4 but I love this show. It reminds me, in a way, of Game of Thrones in that there are very few throw away scenes and almost all of the dialogue is important. Really have to pay attention and watch each episode twice. I'll have to watch this last one again but didn't Ford basically admit that Bernard is a bot? I might have read into that wrong.

 
BTW - I went back and watched half of episode 1 last night - I would be surprised if MIB is William.  While we don't see MIB rape Delores, we do see him ##### slap her pretty hard - so unless, he is trying to set things in motion for later - a possibility I am not ruling out as he could have been the one to place the gun in the haystack that Delores uses later - I think it is more likely MIB is a stand-alone character, or a later version of Logan (and maybe William is killed at some point).

I am sure I will change my mind a few dozen more times before the end of the season

 
It's too muddled at this point for multiple timelines to work well. Even watching it with an eye towards differing timelines as a possibility you just can't see it clearly enough to make it be a good story element.

Compare it to a reveal like in Sixth Sense, where after you're in on the revelation the whole thing makes sense and was clear. If you rewatch it, you wonder how you missed it.

Here, it would make little sense. You could reveal that was what has been happening and people who have watched every episode would just look at you with a puzzled look on their face. They could go rewatch it and still not really see it.

 
It's too muddled at this point for multiple timelines to work well. Even watching it with an eye towards differing timelines as a possibility you just can't see it clearly enough to make it be a good story element.

Compare it to a reveal like in Sixth Sense, where after you're in on the revelation the whole thing makes sense and was clear. If you rewatch it, you wonder how you missed it.

Here, it would make little sense. You could reveal that was what has been happening and people who have watched every episode would just look at you with a puzzled look on their face. They could go rewatch it and still not really see it.
I've been watching it as if they're two separate time periods the whole way and it isn't problematic at all. :shrug:

 
Something I saw elsewhere was a theory that when Bernard is "meeting" with Delores, he was doing so in her mind - which would explain why she is always wearing the blue dress, while the other hosts that are being interrogated are naked.
Best thing posted in this thread so far, especially after seeing Ford talk to her.

Wasn't she interrogated by the Hemsworth brother at one point?  Was she nekkid?

 
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So has this been addressed?

Ed Harris gives a robot a blood transfusion and now he's better?

Wth

 
Best thing posted in this thread so far, especially after seeing Ford talk to her.

Wasn't she interrogated by the Hemsworth brother at one point?  Was she nekkid?
She was naked the first 5 minutes of the first show!!!!

 
That part is correct, she has not. She has been naked though, early on and obviously now with Ford.

Her and Bernard's interactions are definitely on the DL :popcorn:
Ford's interaction was weird though - he said that Delores was in his dream...

Also possible the she was brought into the shop for that interaction - she was swallowed up by the crowd, and then not seen until the next day.

 
I was saying that the observation that she is only clothed when speaking to Bernard, which implies it may be in her mind, as the best post I've seen in here. 
Shes not naked with Bernard because he humanizes them and Ford on the other hand sees them for what they are, robots with no feelings.

 
The whole two timelines things is so unnecessary. The show is interesting without it. I dont understand how adding that to the story really enhances anything.

 

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