MAC_32
Footballguy
Dear God, why? 2009 was hist best SLG since 05 and it was 357
This team needs more bats, this isn't one of them.Btw, agreed with others on Polanco. I'll miss him, but he isn't worth 3 yrs/$18 mil.Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
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***Officialish Detroit Tigers Thread*** (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Doctor Detroit
- Start date
This team needs more bats, this isn't one of them.Btw, agreed with others on Polanco. I'll miss him, but he isn't worth 3 yrs/$18 mil.
Foosball God
Foos
He was "My" Tiger.
Comer
Footballguy
I think teams are more or less laughing at what they want. The cubs reportedly already turned down what the Tigers wanted for Granderson
whoknew
Footballguy
I think that's ok. They either get what they want or they don't. Buster_ESPN The Granderson talks are like the Halladay talks in July:The team is asking for the moon and stars, and if they get want they ask for, great4 minutes ago from web
Comer
Footballguy
I agree they are asking high but, they do need to move him and Jackson. I think it is more likely they will part ways with them for very little to dump the salary's rather then hold out for a GM to pay a hefty price but, we will see what they get. Grandy and Jackson most likely won't be here next year.
igbomb
Footballguy
What makes you think they NEED to move Granderson and Jackson? Neither one makes all that much money. I like the approach of asking high and not budging. Hopefully they pull it off. I'm not nearly the fan of Granderson a lot of this town is, but I certainly don't think they need to move him.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
So let's say Grandy is gone - who are the #1 & #2 hitters in the lineup next year?
Drew RosenhausFan
Footballguy
SI saying the Yanks and Arizona are in talks with Detroit for a 3 way deal involving Jackon (To Arizona) and Granderson (to NY). I dont remember who arizona was giving up, but the yankees were giving up Coke, Kennedy and Austin Jackson.
As a yankee fan, i have no desire to do this. Granderson's good, but i'd rather stick with Melky, keep Coke for the pen and wait 18 months for Jackson to make it to the show.
As a yankee fan, i have no desire to do this. Granderson's good, but i'd rather stick with Melky, keep Coke for the pen and wait 18 months for Jackson to make it to the show.
igbomb
Footballguy
Blogs are saying that the Yankees pulled out of this. May heat up again today, but no deal is imminent.
igbomb
Footballguy
Since I think this should be the year of the young guys, I would lead off with Raburn and give Sizemore a shot at the two-slot.If he gets healthy, Guillen could also be a #2 option.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Why would they "need to" part with by far their most popular player in Granderson? What the Tigers are doing is what teams do every off-season and that is try to measure what a player is worth. This DOES NOT MEAN Jackson and Granderson will be gone and given neither is breaking the bank, saying they will "most likely" means they will both "likely" be there when the Tigers report to Lakeland in February.That said if Scherzer and Austin Jackson are part of the deal, I'm listening.
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whoknew
Footballguy
Sounds like discussions are back on today. Not sure why the D'Backs want Jackson more than Scherzer, but that's good news for the Tigers.
Curtis will be missed. By far my favorite Tiger. They will need these arms to work out.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
This is not good for PR purposes. Granderson is the face of the franchise and Miguel "big drinker" Cabrera is not the answer to put on posters. I was a big critic of Granderson's long before the talk radio crowd started to see his flaws but I can't say I'm happy to see him go. Getting Sherzer, two very good relievers, and a potential above replacement level CF who is 22 back takes the sting off it though. As far as Edwin goes, I think he's underrated as a SP and we did well in getting a lot for him after a fine season. Franchise is changing, gonna take at least two years to figure out if this was the best move.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
igbomb
Footballguy
Any chance Coke can go back to the rotation? In other words, was he moved because he couldn't hack or because the Yankees needed relievers more than starters?
He last started in 2008 in AA and was pretty solid.
Even with Scherzer starting, I'm not thrilled with the idea of Bonderman/Robertson/Galarraga holding down the 4th and 5th spots.
He last started in 2008 in AA and was pretty solid.
Even with Scherzer starting, I'm not thrilled with the idea of Bonderman/Robertson/Galarraga holding down the 4th and 5th spots.
Being my favorite Tiger does not mean I could not see his flaws. I see JV becoming the face of the Tigers. Maybe the corner outfielder they sign will fill that role also.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
For Dombrowski this is a make or break trade, he just traded away Mr Tiger in his prime for two guys who we don't know will be starters or relievers long-term, and a prospect CF who has bad k/BB ratios.
ETA: Nevermind, Schlereteitteitieth is part of the deal
ETA: Nevermind, Schlereteitteitieth is part of the deal
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whoknew
Footballguy
Stink Jr.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Let's hope he has less injuries than his old man.whoknew said:
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
After letting this sink in a bit I can honestly say I like the deal from a baseball perspective but from a franchise perspective I think it stinks. Although I'm a very optimistic type of fan I have always been hard on Granderson for his inability to hit LH pitching and a lot of very un-clutch play this past season. But he was the franchise's face and he was beloved by your average Tigers fan more than anyone else and it's not really close.
Even if you think Granderson may have peaked which is possible, you still were going to get outstanding play in CF, 25 HRs, and a good amount or doubles and triples from him. And how many tickets does Granderson sell every year? Again for DD this is a huge gamble and although he's gonna get a pass in 2010, I think they will have to field a very good team in 2011 for him to be around in 2012. Tigers fans will show up for a 90 win team, but a 70 win team without Granderson given the market variables in Detroit is going to be tough for the average fan to swallow. And although I berate the average fan for lack of baseball knowledge and their persistent mumbling on sports talk radio, they do pay for a good product on the field and they have their voice.
This could end up being a great trade and we could be adding the pieces for a 2011 championship run. But trading away your second best position player who also happens to be the face of the franchise is extremely risky and this could all really blow up in Dombrowski's face.
Even if you think Granderson may have peaked which is possible, you still were going to get outstanding play in CF, 25 HRs, and a good amount or doubles and triples from him. And how many tickets does Granderson sell every year? Again for DD this is a huge gamble and although he's gonna get a pass in 2010, I think they will have to field a very good team in 2011 for him to be around in 2012. Tigers fans will show up for a 90 win team, but a 70 win team without Granderson given the market variables in Detroit is going to be tough for the average fan to swallow. And although I berate the average fan for lack of baseball knowledge and their persistent mumbling on sports talk radio, they do pay for a good product on the field and they have their voice.
This could end up being a great trade and we could be adding the pieces for a 2011 championship run. But trading away your second best position player who also happens to be the face of the franchise is extremely risky and this could all really blow up in Dombrowski's face.
whoknew
Footballguy
This is pretty fair analysis. I do think the key is Austin Jackson. For this trade to be good, he has to be good.After letting this sink in a bit I can honestly say I like the deal from a baseball perspective but from a franchise perspective I think it stinks. Although I'm a very optimistic type of fan I have always been hard on Granderson for his inability to hit LH pitching and a lot of very un-clutch play this past season. But he was the franchise's face and he was beloved by your average Tigers fan more than anyone else and it's not really close. Even if you think Granderson may have peaked which is possible, you still were going to get outstanding play in CF, 25 HRs, and a good amount or doubles and triples from him. And how many tickets does Granderson sell every year? Again for DD this is a huge gamble and although he's gonna get a pass in 2010, I think they will have to field a very good team in 2011 for him to be around in 2012. Tigers fans will show up for a 90 win team, but a 70 win team without Granderson given the market variables in Detroit is going to be tough for the average fan to swallow. And although I berate the average fan for lack of baseball knowledge and their persistent mumbling on sports talk radio, they do pay for a good product on the field and they have their voice.This could end up being a great trade and we could be adding the pieces for a 2011 championship run. But trading away your second best position player who also happens to be the face of the franchise is extremely risky and this could all really blow up in Dombrowski's face.
Gopher State
Footballguy
As a Twins fan, I have no tears in the Tigers trading Granderson. the guy is a stud. It would be like the Twins trading Morneau (our second best player). I hope it works out for the Tigers, I don't understand how you give up 25 HR hitter just coming into his prime, but maybe the guys the Tigers got will be the edge they need.
Looking forward to seeing the Tigers play in our new digs this year, although we miss the baggie at times.
Looking forward to seeing the Tigers play in our new digs this year, although we miss the baggie at times.
igbomb
Footballguy
Granderson has nothing on Morneau.
Gopher State
Footballguy
TRADE ANALYSIS
USA TODAY
A closer look at the proposed three-team deal between the New York Yankees, Detroit Tigers and Arizona Diamondbacks:
•Impact on the Yankees: In Curtis Granderson, 28, the Yankees will get a center fielder for at least the next three years, the period remaining on his contract. They also will have the luxury of playing the rest of the offseason several ways.
They will no longer be compelled to bring back left fielder Johnny Damon or designated hitter Hideki Matsui. They can slide Melky Cabrera to left field from center with Nick Swisher in right and Brett Gardner as the No. 4 outfielder. They also could sign a free-agent outfielder from another team, such as Mike Cameron, to a one-year deal. The point is that general manager Brian Cashman can deal with this issue on his terms. Plus, the outfield defense is sure to be improved and more athletic.
Granderson struggled against left-handed pitchers last season, hitting .183, but he should enjoy batting with the short right field porch at Yankee Stadium. As for the loss of left-handed relief pitcher Phil Coke, the Yankees can turn to Michael Dunn, a 24-year-old who spent most of last season in the minor leagues.
•Impact on the Tigers: They might end up the winner of this deal, gaining four talented players and payroll relief.
GM Dave Dombrowski stands to shed nearly $30 million in guaranteed salaries and score two prized young pitchers (Max Scherzer and Daniel Schlereth), a top outfield prospect (Austin Jackson) and a reliable left-handed reliever (Coke).
Scherzer, 25, was the Diamondbacks' No. 1 pick three years ago. He has an electric arm and will slide into the rotation. He was 9-11 with a 4.12 ERA last season, striking out 174 in 170⅓ innings. Schlereth, 23, a left-handed power pitcher, could fit into the bullpen and become a closer down the road. Jackson, 22, who hit .300 at Class AAA last season, could challenge for the center field job in spring training. Coke will be a setup man.
•Impact on the Diamondbacks: The Diamondbacks, believing their opportunity to win the NL West is now, hope that right-handed starter Edwin Jackson will give them one of the best 1-2-3 punches in the league along with Brandon Webb and Dan Haren.
USA TODAY
A closer look at the proposed three-team deal between the New York Yankees, Detroit Tigers and Arizona Diamondbacks:
•Impact on the Yankees: In Curtis Granderson, 28, the Yankees will get a center fielder for at least the next three years, the period remaining on his contract. They also will have the luxury of playing the rest of the offseason several ways.
They will no longer be compelled to bring back left fielder Johnny Damon or designated hitter Hideki Matsui. They can slide Melky Cabrera to left field from center with Nick Swisher in right and Brett Gardner as the No. 4 outfielder. They also could sign a free-agent outfielder from another team, such as Mike Cameron, to a one-year deal. The point is that general manager Brian Cashman can deal with this issue on his terms. Plus, the outfield defense is sure to be improved and more athletic.
Granderson struggled against left-handed pitchers last season, hitting .183, but he should enjoy batting with the short right field porch at Yankee Stadium. As for the loss of left-handed relief pitcher Phil Coke, the Yankees can turn to Michael Dunn, a 24-year-old who spent most of last season in the minor leagues.
•Impact on the Tigers: They might end up the winner of this deal, gaining four talented players and payroll relief.
GM Dave Dombrowski stands to shed nearly $30 million in guaranteed salaries and score two prized young pitchers (Max Scherzer and Daniel Schlereth), a top outfield prospect (Austin Jackson) and a reliable left-handed reliever (Coke).
Scherzer, 25, was the Diamondbacks' No. 1 pick three years ago. He has an electric arm and will slide into the rotation. He was 9-11 with a 4.12 ERA last season, striking out 174 in 170⅓ innings. Schlereth, 23, a left-handed power pitcher, could fit into the bullpen and become a closer down the road. Jackson, 22, who hit .300 at Class AAA last season, could challenge for the center field job in spring training. Coke will be a setup man.
•Impact on the Diamondbacks: The Diamondbacks, believing their opportunity to win the NL West is now, hope that right-handed starter Edwin Jackson will give them one of the best 1-2-3 punches in the league along with Brandon Webb and Dan Haren.
whoknew
Footballguy
NOOOO!!!!!!jonmorosi If a team likes Carlos Guillen and has an expensive pitcher available (who the #Dodgers want), then you have a deal. Not easy to do.5 minutes ago from web
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I wonder where Milton Bradley is going? Pierre is fine but he has 18 million left on his deal and he isn't worth half that. That said Guillen is owed 26 million so I guess I'd rather have Pierre although I think Guillen will have a nice year this year. I'd rather have Milton Bradley though.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
not sure what to think, but I know if Magglio,Dontrell and Robertson were not signed to terrible deals that Granderson would still be here.
Prospects are just that, sounds encouraging that they are all major league ready and not A level players right now
Prospects are just that, sounds encouraging that they are all major league ready and not A level players right now
Shakespeare
Footballguy
They still have Inge.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
That's what sports radio is saying but that's not necessarily true. Granderson wasn't expensive really at all and after this year, they have a lot more flexibility with salary. Also I don't know why Magglio is considered a bad deal but we beat that to death in last year's thread. Magglio has had three really good years and one great year in Detroit and when he was signed we overpaid because no one wanted to play in Detroit. Willis deal was bad, probably from the beginning. The Robertson deal was 3 years for 7 million per and they were paying for a #5 starter. Awful deal? Not if Nate had seasons like he did 05-07 which it was based on. That was a fair market deal. The Tigers made this trade because they felt Granderson had peaked and because of the under-performing of Willis, Robertson, and to a lesser extent Guillen and Magglio with the relative age of some of the players...they dealt for youth. The three most marketable players were Verlander, Cabrera, and Granderson and you'd have to be nuts to trade wither of the first two as neither has even entered their prime years. Granderson is flawed and although I don't necessarily think we've seen his best years, he is .210/.270/.614 lifetime vs LH hitting. Adam Everett's numbers put those to shame and Granderson also is a very average player in clutch spots and last year he was just awful. He had 89 PAs with RISP and 2 outs last year and the return was 5/25/.187/.315/.467. In the Yankees line-up you can hide those numbers, in Detroit's line-up you have to produce and he just didn't over and over again a year ago. Not trying to bad mouth him post trade either, at this moment I'm not that fond of the deal from a franchise perspective. But by all neutral accounts I've read evaluating this trade, the Tigers did very well with a chance to do extremely well if Jackson becomes a better than average replacement level player which I think is better than 50/50 of happening. If Jackson becomes a very good player or all-star caliber Detroit will have won this trade ten times over. This is going to take a real long time to get use to though. i'm not sure it will sink in for me until I actually go to a game and he's not in CF.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I think the yanks will platoon him in center, they prolly have an extra righty OF to use.
igbomb
Footballguy
That's been exactly my perspective. As good as he was, his overall numbers to a certain extent hide just how bad he was against lefty pitching. So in the 7th or 8th of any close game, it's the easiest call of the night to bring in your lefty specialist to strike him out.Almost every player will be significantly better against either lefties or righties, but his disparity was ridiculous. When you're being platooned with guys like Raburn and Wilkin Ramirez late in the season, that's a problem.Having said that, I think he will thrive in NY and smash a pile of homeruns. And when he does, the sports radio in this town will skewer Dombrowski. But whatever he does there, he wouldn't have been able to do the same here.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Granderson is flawed. But not signing Polanco and moving Jack and granderson saves the Tigers about what 10 million or so? They are slashing payroll and unfortunatlythe had to trade the valuable pieces they had because no one wants Bonderman,Dontrell or Robertson, heck even Magglio or Guillen. Tigers are stuck until those deals come off the books. Granderson is flawed. but he hits for power, covers alot of ground in CF and steals 20 bases a year. This trade will also hurt the tigers at the box office especially if they have a slow April start. Propects are just that, I mean Maybin and Miller sure are dominating in Florida right? You just never know with prospects
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
So Lyon is gone, he's the new closer in Houston but the Tigers will get a sandwich pick for him.
Best thing about the Granderson trade? Freddi Dolsi was designated for assignment and hopefully we'll never see him again.
Best thing about the Granderson trade? Freddi Dolsi was designated for assignment and hopefully we'll never see him again.
Shakespeare
Footballguy
There will be plenty of good seats available April-Oct.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
IGbomb and Dr.Detroit, you guys have each said that you had issues with Granderson. I have looked at the trade and it is definitely good for the Yanks, the Yanks had soured on Austin because he has shown very little power. he has tools, but hasn't developed the way they thought he would. The way I see Grandersron is that he is an absolute stud against righties and as good as it gets against righties for a CF'r. He simply should not play against lefties though and if the Yanks don't platoon him, they are making a mistake. My question is about his defense. I have watched him, but I have to say not like I should to get a good read on him. from what I have seen, he is a good defender and covers the ground well for a CF'r, but his arm looked a little shaky. That is less important, but my opinion defensively of him is probably not accurate and I was looking for People who watch him every day?
Granderson is a CF version (meaning a weaker version) of Ryan Howard for the Phillies; both guys should be platooned.
Granderson is a CF version (meaning a weaker version) of Ryan Howard for the Phillies; both guys should be platooned.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Granderson can cover ground but he has a noodle arm.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
As far as his defense he has always been a little shaky on his feel for a batted ball and I don't think anyone watching him play could argue that. Once he gets a read on the ball he is fantastic, let's be clear about that but to me he has always struggled on contact and it makes him have to make diving plays where there never should have been a dive. Last year Tiger fans who watched him will tell you, he was as bad as he ever was making the read. Several times last season he misread routine hits off the bat and it led to catastrophic errors (I think it was a game against Clev and he didn't get an error but it was a 3 base error on a ball over his head that he should have had) and tense moments. Seriously I was worried in September and I think I can find where I said it in the tigers in-season thread. His arm isn't shaky, it's well below average for CF. He'll make a few good throws but usually on balls hit into CF with a runner on 3rd you just assume the run will score, even with Granderson plaing shallow. Even if he gets the ball to the plate he's not all that accurate so it's a double whammy. He's really a LFer but with his range it's hard to put him in LF.
whoknew
Footballguy
GREAT news! White Sox traded for Juan Pierre!!
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
shorter lines to the toilets.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
The white Sox are only on the hook for 3 million this year and 5 million next year. The Dodgers are eating the rest. Sounds like a pretty good deal now.
