Patriots being investigated after Colts game (1 Viewer)

[BigSteelThrill]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

None. Zero.

 

[otello]

This post is not a response to LD.

Pats are all in.

 

[JuniorNB]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

unfortunately, this isn't the first time they've been caught cheating (if that's how this turns out). Between this and Spygate, all the accomplishments of the Brady /Belichick era will have huge asterics. When a guy is caught cheating on his wide, multiple times, he doesn't get to remind his wife if all the nights he didn't cheat.

Let me guess, Steelers fan? No bias there.

no. Not a Steelers fan. Why does it matter? Being a fan of any of the other 31 teams is reason enough to be disgusted if New England has cheated again. Open your eyes Buddy. People are fed up with it. Doesn't matter what team they like.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Complaints about the Pats balls from earlier in the season, the fact that the Colts balls were all good, Brady saying he couldn't tell the difference in ball inflation. To name a few.

Again, you like many others are claiming things to be fact that may not be.

1. If there were complaints about the Patriots balls earlier in the season, then you are implying the league knew about this ahead of time and they decided the AFCCC would be the best time to setup a sting. Does that really make any efn sense to you? Personally, I feel it was the butt hurt hc of the wife beating ravens who contacted the colts and told them to do it and the colts being the whiney tools that they are went ahead and did it. This is of course just my humble opinion

2. The Colts Balls were all good, can you tell me what their psi was pre game? No you can't, so stop trying to pretend the Colts balls are proof. Evidence yes, proof, no, at least not until we know what the psi was to start.

3. How much deflation? Joe Theisman said similar, is he on the payroll? Do you think squeezing a football to the point where you could tell the difference in 1.5-2 psi would really help a qb throw a ball. Do you really think that QBs squeeze the ball that hard when they throw? I feel 99% certain they don't, but I am interested in hearing your answer, yes or no?

In summary, yes there is some evidence that maybe there was some wrong doing..

There is also evidence that the patriots biggest crime is winning to efn much and a whole lot butt hurt from the fans and organizations of 31 other teams.

 

[moleculo]

I asked about re-inflation earlier, it seems that (like everything else in this saga), there are conflicting reports. Here's why it matters:

(1) we have to assume this was a sting operation. Checking pressure on footballs is not routinely done at halftime (AFAIK). Why would the refs check unless instructed to do so? It seems like a really ornerous task - halftime is typically like 15 minutes - of that span, the refs have to make it to their lockerroom, check notes with each other, use the pisser, re-hydrate, maybe grab a bite to eat, check pressure in 24 footballs, and get back on the field. That's a lot of stuff to do, certainly more than I've ever done over halftime.

(2) if it was a sting operation, and evidence was found, there is no way I would let the sole piece of evidence back onto the field. They've got to know the #### storm this would cause - yo can't just destroy the only piece of hard evidence you have. If the balls were re-inflated, there is no evidence at all, and this whole thing is over, period. If this is what happened, whomever led the sting operation, or directed the officials to re-inflate, should be fired immediately, the NFL issue a full apology, and that be the end of it.

(3) If I were running the sting operation and I found footballs (allegedly) 2 psi under spec, I would secure them in plastic bags, box them up, and immediately ship them to the league office. When the balls arrive at the league office, they would be double-checked again, and this check would take place at room temperature.

I think we can all agree that if the second check from (3) above, which takes place at room temperature, continues to show a sub-standard pressure, there is hard evidence that weather cannot account for. All of the ideal gas law stuff goes out the window at this point, because T2 = T1. The only way for the pressure to be lower is manual manipulation. Also, if the second check showed a legal pressure then the league has no case and this is done and over with. Had this happened, the league would have issued a statement last week confirming as such.

The NFL's investigation into this whole sordid affair will run 6 figures. They have a (presumably) high priced attorney running point, conducted over 40 interviews, and secured the assistance of a video forensics company. They have drug the reputation of one of the leagues biggest stars through the mud, and tarnished the reputation of the superbowl itself. I find it very hard to believe the NFL would allow all of this to continue if they were not in possession of hard evidence.

Again, we really need to see what the NFL has. Clearly, they are not showing all of their cards yet, and will not be doing so until after the Superbowl.

Either way, heads will roll. Godell vs Belichick, someone is going down. Believe it or not, I'd rather see Godell go down than Belichick.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Rodgers reference is ridiculous, he said he likes it fully inflated but he obviously means within the approved range for games.

He explicitly stated that he tries to overinflate them to see if they get through inspection, cause the worst thing that happens is they just lower the pressure.

Which we know is true, unless your the Pats.

For the ignorant, lazy ones who spend too much time trolling and not enough time learning about the subject...

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

 

[adamjw2]

Not a fan of Belichick, but I think if anything, he is probably most likely to be innocent here, because you just can't see him going out of his way during super bowl week to do the experiments on the psi if he knew the balls were being doctored.

 

[GoBirds]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

I will be beyond shocked if this ball boy scenario or any other scenario has any merit. The Pats have calculated every once of evidence that exists or could exist and how it could be used against them. They know everything that could be used as evidence, they have full disclosure by doing their own internal investigation into what they did and didn't do. I don't see them putting their entire legacy on the line without being 100% confident in their acquittal.

Sure...but given the hypothetical if a ballboy takes the fall you can't separate Brady right?

I don't see how there is any scenario where a ballboy or other employee can take the wrap alone. Someone within the organization would go down too.

That's what makes this latest report intriguing. Who cares about a ballboy....punish him and let it go but the fact it would tie in Brady makes it into this standoff. Will the NFL blink?

 

[amnesiac]

I have a rack on this thread hitting 100 pages before kickoff.

So all of you physicists, conspiracy theorists, Trolls, Pat haters and Pat lovers, you're almost there. Bring it on home and....Win one for the Limper

that's cute.

over/under on this thread by kickoff: 150 pages

How much do you have on the line?

admittedly, nothing. when did you place your bet?

don't recall seeing it, but i've had to skim a lot of this thread.

That's cuteBet was placed last Sunday, not done in this thread though.

My posts, or any responses to my posts, don't count towards the total posts needed.

well then, my apologies to you, and the sucker you took for a rack. not that any of us could've possibly had any knowledge of your bet, but good job nonetheless.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Rodgers reference is ridiculous, he said he likes it fully inflated but he obviously means within the approved range for games.

He explicitly stated that he tries to overinflate them to see if they get through inspection, cause the worst thing that happens is they just lower the pressure.

Which we know is true, unless your the Pats.

For the ignorant, lazy ones who spend too much time trolling and not enough time learning about the subject...

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

Which game did he use an illegal ball in?

Keep digging for excuses.

It's not an excuse, its fact, it might be one that you don't like and doesn't fit the narrative you want to promote, but it is a fact. Just like Terry Bradshaw bragging about manipulating the footballs far worse, not an excuse, just a fact.......

 

[ROCKET]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

unfortunately, this isn't the first time they've been caught cheating (if that's how this turns out). Between this and Spygate, all the accomplishments of the Brady /Belichick era will have huge asterics. When a guy is caught cheating on his wide, multiple times, he doesn't get to remind his wife if all the nights he didn't cheat.

Let me guess, Steelers fan? No bias there.

no. Not a Steelers fan. Why does it matter? Being a fan of any of the other 31 teams is reason enough to be disgusted if New England has cheated again. Open your eyes Buddy. People are fed up with it. Doesn't matter what team they like.

Typically the most vile fans who spew rhetoric like you do are fans with some axe to grind for prior losses. It's obvious that you are just another brain dead hater with nothing of value to bring to the table. Carry on.

 

[Morton Muffley]

Kraft Transcript:

“Given the events of the last week, I want to take a minute to address the air pressure matter before we kickoff this week’s media availability. I have spoken with Coach Belichick. I have spoken with Tom Brady. I’ve taken the time to understand to the best of my abilities what goes on in the preparation of game day footballs. I want to make it clear, that I believe unconditionally that the New England Patriots have done nothing inappropriate in this process in violation of NFL rules.

“Tom, Bill and I have been together for 15 years. They are my guys. They are part of my family and Bill, Tom and I have had many difficult discussions over the years and I have never known them to lie to me. That is why I am confident in saying what I just said. It bothers me greatly that their reputations and integrity, and by association, that of our team has been called into question this past week.

“As I said on Friday in my prepared statement, we welcome the league’s investigation and the involvement of Attorney [Ted] Wells. I am confident this investigation will uncover whatever the facts were that took place last Sunday and the science of how game balls react to changes in the environment. This would be in direct contrast to the public discourse which has been driven by media leaks, as opposed to actual data and facts. Because of this, many jump to conclusions and made strong accusations against our coach, quarterback and staff, questioning the integrity of all involved.“If the Wells investigation is not able to definitively determine that our organization tampered with the air pressure in the footballs, I would expect and hope that the league would apologize to our entire team, and in particular Coach Belichick and Tom Brady for what they’ve had to endure this past week.

“I’m disappointed in the way this entire matter has been handled, and reported upon. We expect hard facts, as opposed to circumstantial leaked evidence to draw the conclusion of this investigation. In closing, I would like to say to all the fans of the National Football League, and especially the amazing fans of the New England Patriots, that I and our entire organization believe strongly in the integrity of the game, and that the rules of fair play, are properly, equitably and fairly enforced. Thank you.”

Btw thanks generaljerk

Bold is the key. Even Kraft, knows there is nothing that is definitively that can prove they did, just like there is nothing definitively to say they did not mess with the footballs. But if they can prove the chain of the Footballs was not followed by having the ball boy get thefootballballs, and take them to a room, that was not approved. Then what?

If they have psi measurements at the pre-game inspection and psi measurements at halftime that cannot be explained by weather then that is all the circumstantial evidence I will need. I don't need the Austin powers penis pump evidence to conclude that the patriots cheated.

And if they don't have these measurements but do have a ball boy who walked into a bathroom on his way to the field will you conclude that there is NOT enough circumstantial evidence to convict? Or will you stick to your narrative that just cuz they can't prove it doesn't mean they didn't do it?

 

[Morton Muffley]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Complaints about the Pats balls from earlier in the season, the fact that the Colts balls were all good, Brady saying he couldn't tell the difference in ball inflation. To name a few.

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Complaints about the Pats balls from earlier in the season, the fact that the Colts balls were all good, Brady saying he couldn't tell the difference in ball inflation. To name a few.

Is there a psi diff level at which you would believe brady would be unable to tell the diff?

 

[ROCKET]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

I will be beyond shocked if this ball boy scenario or any other scenario has any merit. The Pats have calculated every once of evidence that exists or could exist and how it could be used against them. They know everything that could be used as evidence, they have full disclosure by doing their own internal investigation into what they did and didn't do. I don't see them putting their entire legacy on the line without being 100% confident in their acquittal.

Sure...but given the hypothetical if a ballboy takes the fall you can't separate Brady right?

I don't see how there is any scenario where a ballboy or other employee can take the wrap alone. Someone within the organization would go down too.

That's what makes this latest report intriguing. Who cares about a ballboy....punish him and let it go but the fact it would tie in Brady makes it into this standoff. Will the NFL blink?

I think the Patriots have already weighed the ball boy scenario and deemed it a non threat to them. I would be shocked at this point for anything to stick. You don't do what the Pats and Kraft did without being 100% sure.

 

[mbuehner]

You know what makes a lot of sense-

Colts take the interception ball, stick a gauge in it, see its 1 to 2 pounds under, tell the refs, refs check at halftime, rest of the balls are 1 under, refs roll their eyes, smirk and bring out backup balls.

 

[12punch]

shark pool be sharkin'

 

[ROCKET]

Glazer's latest Tweet.

Loveeee Mr Kraft's statement. Strong words from a very strong owner.

 

[GoBirds]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Rodgers reference is ridiculous, he said he likes it fully inflated but he obviously means within the approved range for games.

He explicitly stated that he tries to overinflate them to see if they get through inspection, cause the worst thing that happens is they just lower the pressure.

Which we know is true, unless your the Pats.

For the ignorant, lazy ones who spend too much time trolling and not enough time learning about the subject...

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

Which game did he use an illegal ball in?

Keep digging for excuses.

It's not an excuse, its fact, it might be one that you don't like and doesn't fit the narrative you want to promote, but it is a fact. Just like Terry Bradshaw bragging about manipulating the footballs far worse, not an excuse, just a fact.......

So a 2nd hand comment about Rodgers saying he tries to have the officials approve over inflated balls.

Brady has been caught in a game and the story today was that there was footage AFTER official review where they might have been modified.

So you are saying that's the same? Who has the agenda.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Like I've said before, makes no sense for the NFL to have let this go on as long as they've had unless there's meat on the bone. Doesn't help the image of the league and it takes away from the Super Bowl.

That part of it confuses me as well. But then again. The Pats wouldn't be making such emphatic statements like this unless they were certain they did nothing wrong. That's what makes this story so intriguing.

No. They're being so emphatic because they know no one can actually prove it. NOT because they're so certain they did nothing wrong. They're trying to shout this down because they know if they get busted on this one, they're gonna be considered cheats for all time, and especially so because of spygate before. They may as well try to shout it down. Doesn't hurt them, but it most definitely does not convince me in the least.

This is a great point.

We know that unless there's video of someone deflating the footballs, there's not going to be any proof of anything. But if the NFL has a fair amount of more-than-circumstantial evidence that someone within the organization did something illegal, it's going to come out. And the NFL didn't start this entire investigation after measuring the footballs last Sunday without having what I'd assume would be a pretty strong reason. Tarnishing a Super Bowl participant is bad for business, and the timing of this means the NFL surely thought there was something going on.

So what do the Patriots have to lose by upping the ante? Nothing. If they're busted, it's over for them anyways. Regular press conferences did nothing. An impromptu press conference about a science experiment fired up the fanbase, and that was squashed by one bit of info - maybe just the tip of the iceberg - from the NFL's investigation. So the Pats up the ante again with Kraft throwing a fit. Who cares? It almost seems like they're trying to publicly intimidate the NFL into giving up, but this isn't going away without the NFL having a final say about what they find.

 

[GoBirds]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

I will be beyond shocked if this ball boy scenario or any other scenario has any merit. The Pats have calculated every once of evidence that exists or could exist and how it could be used against them. They know everything that could be used as evidence, they have full disclosure by doing their own internal investigation into what they did and didn't do. I don't see them putting their entire legacy on the line without being 100% confident in their acquittal.

Sure...but given the hypothetical if a ballboy takes the fall you can't separate Brady right?

I don't see how there is any scenario where a ballboy or other employee can take the wrap alone. Someone within the organization would go down too.

That's what makes this latest report intriguing. Who cares about a ballboy....punish him and let it go but the fact it would tie in Brady makes it into this standoff. Will the NFL blink?

I think the Patriots have already weighed the ball boy scenario and deemed it a non threat to them. I would be shocked at this point for anything to stick. You don't do what the Pats and Kraft did without being 100% sure.

I think you are probably right, they have to know this can't be proven....at least to a point they can always deny.

 

[amnesiac]

You know what makes a lot of sense-

Colts take the interception ball, stick a gauge in it, see its 1 to 2 pounds under, tell the refs, refs check at halftime, rest of the balls are 1 under, refs roll their eyes, smirk and bring out backup balls.

in a sane world, this story would've ended at that point.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

nobody wins

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I asked about re-inflation earlier, it seems that (like everything else in this saga), there are conflicting reports. Here's why it matters:

(1) we have to assume this was a sting operation. Checking pressure on footballs is not routinely done at halftime (AFAIK). Why would the refs check unless instructed to do so? It seems like a really ornerous task - halftime is typically like 15 minutes - of that span, the refs have to make it to their lockerroom, check notes with each other, use the pisser, re-hydrate, maybe grab a bite to eat, check pressure in 24 footballs, and get back on the field. That's a lot of stuff to do, certainly more than I've ever done over halftime.

(2) if it was a sting operation, and evidence was found, there is no way I would let the sole piece of evidence back onto the field. They've got to know the #### storm this would cause - yo can't just destroy the only piece of hard evidence you have. If the balls were re-inflated, there is no evidence at all, and this whole thing is over, period. If this is what happened, whomever led the sting operation, or directed the officials to re-inflate, should be fired immediately, the NFL issue a full apology, and that be the end of it.

(3) If I were running the sting operation and I found footballs (allegedly) 2 psi under spec, I would secure them in plastic bags, box them up, and immediately ship them to the league office. When the balls arrive at the league office, they would be double-checked again, and this check would take place at room temperature.

I think we can all agree that if the second check from (3) above, which takes place at room temperature, continues to show a sub-standard pressure, there is hard evidence that weather cannot account for. All of the ideal gas law stuff goes out the window at this point, because T2 = T1. The only way for the pressure to be lower is manual manipulation. Also, if the second check showed a legal pressure then the league has no case and this is done and over with. Had this happened, the league would have issued a statement last week confirming as such.

The NFL's investigation into this whole sordid affair will run 6 figures. They have a (presumably) high priced attorney running point, conducted over 40 interviews, and secured the assistance of a video forensics company. They have drug the reputation of one of the leagues biggest stars through the mud, and tarnished the reputation of the superbowl itself. I find it very hard to believe the NFL would allow all of this to continue if they were not in possession of hard evidence.

Again, we really need to see what the NFL has. Clearly, they are not showing all of their cards yet, and will not be doing so until after the Superbowl.

Either way, heads will roll. Godell vs Belichick, someone is going down. Believe it or not, I'd rather see Godell go down than Belichick.

Those are definitely key points, but I find it hard to believe the league would setup a sting for the afccc and if they did I think it should cost Goodell his job. However, if they didn't setup the sting then the theory that the Colts having been tipped off by johnny the weasel simply waited until after the game had started. I agree that heads are going to roll either from the NE FO or the league.

 

[12punch]

Glazer's latest Tweet.

Loveeee Mr Kraft's statement. Strong words from a very strong owner.

loveeeeee?

 

[General Tso]

Like I've said before, makes no sense for the NFL to have let this go on as long as they've had unless there's meat on the bone. Doesn't help the image of the league and it takes away from the Super Bowl.

That part of it confuses me as well. But then again. The Pats wouldn't be making such emphatic statements like this unless they were certain they did nothing wrong. That's what makes this story so intriguing.

No. They're being so emphatic because they know no one can actually prove it. NOT because they're so certain they did nothing wrong. They're trying to shout this down because they know if they get busted on this one, they're gonna be considered cheats for all time, and especially so because of spygate before. They may as well try to shout it down. Doesn't hurt them, but it most definitely does not convince me in the least.

That could be TJ. But here's why I think differently... If the Pats tampered with the balls then there is someone out there, most likely a lowly ball boy making slightly more than minimum wage, who knows the truth. It's been my experience that people with a big secret cannot be trusted. They almost always talk if pressured enough. And in this case it would probably pay for the ball boy to talk. Think about how much money he could make. He could sell his story to TMZ for a million dollars at least, and they would gladly pay it. He'd undoubtedly become a household name, and though he'd be persona non grata in New England he'd be just as much a hero in the rest of the country.If the Pats did it, they would know this, and they wouldn't stake their futures on his silence. In my opinion they would quietly let the investigation play out, not make any public statements, and deny any wrongdoing to the investigators in very general terms. If the ball boy snitches they could always come back and speculate that he did it on his own, or that he didn't do a thing but is just saying so for the money.

So the next question is - why wouldn't the Pats still issue such strong denials even if they knew the balls were tampered with? They could still make the same arguments above, right? Well, not necessarily. There's always the possibility that the ball boy would have hard evidence, maybe a tape recording of conversations he had with Brady. The's a lot of speculation this was a set-up, and it's not that far fetched for Brady to think that maybe the ball boy was in on it. There's also the possibility that surveillance equipment could have captured some damning evidence.

In short, if the Pats were guilty here the smart play would have been to remain quiet, and if caught come clean and accept what would probably be a minor punishment all things considered. If I was advising Brady that's what I would have counseled. Far too much to lose by going all-in unless you are 100% innocent. I work with a group of attorneys who provide counsel to Senior Executives on thorny compliance issues, and to a man they have all said the same thing.

It's been said many times that it's not the crime, it's the cover-up that kills you. The Pats are very smart. They know this.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

unfortunately, this isn't the first time they've been caught cheating (if that's how this turns out). Between this and Spygate, all the accomplishments of the Brady /Belichick era will have huge asterics. When a guy is caught cheating on his wide, multiple times, he doesn't get to remind his wife if all the nights he didn't cheat.

Let me guess, Steelers fan? No bias there.

no. Not a Steelers fan. Why does it matter? Being a fan of any of the other 31 teams is reason enough to be disgusted if New England has cheated again. Open your eyes Buddy. People are fed up with it. Doesn't matter what team they like.

This dude has a really weird preoccupation with the Steelers for some reason. No idea why.

 

[Morton Muffley]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

I will be beyond shocked if this ball boy scenario or any other scenario has any merit. The Pats have calculated every once of evidence that exists or could exist and how it could be used against them. They know everything that could be used as evidence, they have full disclosure by doing their own internal investigation into what they did and didn't do. I don't see them putting their entire legacy on the line without being 100% confident in their acquittal.

Sure...but given the hypothetical if a ballboy takes the fall you can't separate Brady right?

I don't see how there is any scenario where a ballboy or other employee can take the wrap alone. Someone within the organization would go down too.

That's what makes this latest report intriguing. Who cares about a ballboy....punish him and let it go but the fact it would tie in Brady makes it into this standoff. Will the NFL blink?

I think the Patriots have already weighed the ball boy scenario and deemed it a non threat to them. I would be shocked at this point for anything to stick. You don't do what the Pats and Kraft did without being 100% sure.

I think you are probably right, they have to know this can't be proven....at least to a point they can always deny.

Love the way you guys are preparing your next argument...really well done. So is there anything that could happen to dissuade you from your conclusion that NE cheated. I and others have shared examples of what would convince us that NE cheated, but sounds to me like you two are prepare a pretty tight circular argument.

 

[moleculo]

If the NFL does not have in it's possession at least one football meeting the following criteria, this entire thing is over and the NFL owes the New England Patriots a big fat apology.

• football originated from New England staff pre-AFCCG.
• football must have been used in game.
• football must have been checked pre-game with a pressure gauge, and verified by a league official to be between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI.
• football's custody must be traceable between halftime of AFCCG and arrival at league office.
• league officials must verify that ball has not been inflated/deflated since usage in game.
• football must have pressure of less than 12.0 PSI at standard room temperature (i.e. 70 dF, +/- 5 dF)

If they do not have such a football in their possession, it doesn't mean they are innocent. Rather, it means the NFL does not have sufficient evidence to convict. It is still possible shenanigans occurred, but if the league doesn't have the above, they have completely fubared the whole entire investigation.

 

[kyoun1e]

I asked about re-inflation earlier, it seems that (like everything else in this saga), there are conflicting reports. Here's why it matters:

(1) we have to assume this was a sting operation. Checking pressure on footballs is not routinely done at halftime (AFAIK). Why would the refs check unless instructed to do so? It seems like a really ornerous task - halftime is typically like 15 minutes - of that span, the refs have to make it to their lockerroom, check notes with each other, use the pisser, re-hydrate, maybe grab a bite to eat, check pressure in 24 footballs, and get back on the field. That's a lot of stuff to do, certainly more than I've ever done over halftime.

(2) if it was a sting operation, and evidence was found, there is no way I would let the sole piece of evidence back onto the field. They've got to know the #### storm this would cause - yo can't just destroy the only piece of hard evidence you have. If the balls were re-inflated, there is no evidence at all, and this whole thing is over, period. If this is what happened, whomever led the sting operation, or directed the officials to re-inflate, should be fired immediately, the NFL issue a full apology, and that be the end of it.

(3) If I were running the sting operation and I found footballs (allegedly) 2 psi under spec, I would secure them in plastic bags, box them up, and immediately ship them to the league office. When the balls arrive at the league office, they would be double-checked again, and this check would take place at room temperature.

I think we can all agree that if the second check from (3) above, which takes place at room temperature, continues to show a sub-standard pressure, there is hard evidence that weather cannot account for. All of the ideal gas law stuff goes out the window at this point, because T2 = T1. The only way for the pressure to be lower is manual manipulation. Also, if the second check showed a legal pressure then the league has no case and this is done and over with. Had this happened, the league would have issued a statement last week confirming as such.

The NFL's investigation into this whole sordid affair will run 6 figures. They have a (presumably) high priced attorney running point, conducted over 40 interviews, and secured the assistance of a video forensics company. They have drug the reputation of one of the leagues biggest stars through the mud, and tarnished the reputation of the superbowl itself. I find it very hard to believe the NFL would allow all of this to continue if they were not in possession of hard evidence.

Again, we really need to see what the NFL has. Clearly, they are not showing all of their cards yet, and will not be doing so until after the Superbowl.

Either way, heads will roll. Godell vs Belichick, someone is going down. Believe it or not, I'd rather see Godell go down than Belichick.

Those are definitely key points, but I find it hard to believe the league would setup a sting for the afccc and if they did I think it should cost Goodell his job. However, if they didn't setup the sting then the theory that the Colts having been tipped off by johnny the weasel simply waited until after the game had started. I agree that heads are going to roll either from the NE FO or the league.

I would find it hard to believe that the league would think this all through thoroughly beforehand. If anything, this year has proven that the league is not too...thoughtful.

I'm guessing that never in their wildest dreams did they think this would blow up the way it did.

I don't think they have enough.

And at some point Goodell tries to wiggle out of this by giving his good ol' pal Kraft a pat on the back. May not work.

 

[GoBirds]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

I will be beyond shocked if this ball boy scenario or any other scenario has any merit. The Pats have calculated every once of evidence that exists or could exist and how it could be used against them. They know everything that could be used as evidence, they have full disclosure by doing their own internal investigation into what they did and didn't do. I don't see them putting their entire legacy on the line without being 100% confident in their acquittal.

Sure...but given the hypothetical if a ballboy takes the fall you can't separate Brady right?

I don't see how there is any scenario where a ballboy or other employee can take the wrap alone. Someone within the organization would go down too.

That's what makes this latest report intriguing. Who cares about a ballboy....punish him and let it go but the fact it would tie in Brady makes it into this standoff. Will the NFL blink?

I think the Patriots have already weighed the ball boy scenario and deemed it a non threat to them. I would be shocked at this point for anything to stick. You don't do what the Pats and Kraft did without being 100% sure.

I think you are probably right, they have to know this can't be proven....at least to a point they can always deny.

Love the way you guys are preparing your next argument...really well done. So is there anything that could happen to dissuade you from your conclusion that NE cheated. I and others have shared examples of what would convince us that NE cheated, but sounds to me like you two are prepare a pretty tight circular argument.

If today's report is BS that would definitely help....after refs check balls why would they be taken into this room etc. Just seems shady after we were told it's nothing more than "science".

Reporters have been wrong many times though.

 

[JuniorNB]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

unfortunately, this isn't the first time they've been caught cheating (if that's how this turns out). Between this and Spygate, all the accomplishments of the Brady /Belichick era will have huge asterics. When a guy is caught cheating on his wide, multiple times, he doesn't get to remind his wife if all the nights he didn't cheat.

Let me guess, Steelers fan? No bias there.

no. Not a Steelers fan. Why does it matter? Being a fan of any of the other 31 teams is reason enough to be disgusted if New England has cheated again. Open your eyes Buddy. People are fed up with it. Doesn't matter what team they like.

This dude has a really weird preoccupation with the Steelers for some reason. No idea why.

it's just hilarious to me that these desperate Pat fans are trying to play the victim and acting like everyone else has an agenda. Can't people just hate cheaters?

 

[The General]

Glazer's latest Tweet.

Loveeee Mr Kraft's statement. Strong words from a very strong owner.

So Glazer is the guy stoking all this with his info from "league sources". Then gives Kraft the thumbs up for ripping the NFL .

That's some next level trolling by that little dwarf.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Rodgers reference is ridiculous, he said he likes it fully inflated but he obviously means within the approved range for games.

He explicitly stated that he tries to overinflate them to see if they get through inspection, cause the worst thing that happens is they just lower the pressure.

Which we know is true, unless your the Pats.

For the ignorant, lazy ones who spend too much time trolling and not enough time learning about the subject...

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

Which game did he use an illegal ball in?

Keep digging for excuses.

It's not an excuse, its fact, it might be one that you don't like and doesn't fit the narrative you want to promote, but it is a fact. Just like Terry Bradshaw bragging about manipulating the footballs far worse, not an excuse, just a fact.......

So a 2nd hand comment about Rodgers saying he tries to have the officials approve over inflated balls.

Brady has been caught in a game and the story today was that there was footage AFTER official review where they might have been modified.

So you are saying that's the same? Who has the agenda.

Like so many others you are confusing what you want to be true with what we know to be true. From my perspective I don't want the patriots to be guilty of doctoring balls so I am trying as best I can to figure out fact from rumor and wishful thinking by the detractors.

Yes, it was an offhand comment from Rodgers that he liked the football overinflated and trys to get it by the refs; not an excuse, just a fact.

No, the FACT is Brady hasn't been caught or even charged with doing anything, some balls were found to be under inflated and it is being investigated. Maybe the balls were doctored and maybe Brady has culpability in that doctoring, but we do not know any of that to be fact.

It has been reported that there is footage of a ballboy going off camera where he "might have" done something, ok, maybe it will turn out he did something, but right now you can't claim we know for sure he actually did anything nefarious.

 

[zftcg]

I'm neither a Pats homer nor a hater. If you put a gun to my head and ask what happened, I'd say they probably cheated, though I have no idea how. If they did cheat, I doubt it swung the game, but I'd be fine throwing the book at them based on past misdeeds.

But what's amazing about this whole story is that we've been chewing over it for a week and, as far as I can tell, we have yet to learn a single, verifiable fact that wasn't a) anonymously sourced, b) circumstantial or c) anonymously sourced AND circumstantial. The fact that they fumbled at a lower rate doesn't, by itself, prove anything. The fact that the NFL is "reportedly" zeroing in on a NE ball boy doesn't prove anything, especially since we don't even know if it's true. Would it really be too much to wait for actual facts before making up our minds?

Of course, given the Keystone Kops running this investigation, we may never get any actual facts (what do you think the odds are of the NFL concluding its investigation, and then belatedly discovering there was CBS footage of a ballboy sticking a needle in a ball on the sideline?) And if it ends with no resolution, I'll feel free to speculate away. But until then, I'm in no rush.

 

[Run It Up]

Glazer's latest Tweet.

Loveeee Mr Kraft's statement. Strong words from a very strong owner.

So Glazer is the guy stoking all this with his info from "league sources". Then gives Kraft the thumbs up for ripping the NFL .

That's some next level trolling by that little dwarf.

He was ####### as vague as possible too.

Taken to "another area", how vague can you be?

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

(3) If I were running the sting operation and I found footballs (allegedly) 2 psi under spec, I would secure them in plastic bags, box them up, and immediately ship them to the league office. When the balls arrive at the league office, they would be double-checked again, and this check would take place at room temperature.
I think we can all agree that if the second check from (3) above, which takes place at room temperature, continues to show a sub-standard pressure, there is hard evidence that weather cannot account for. All of the ideal gas law stuff goes out the window at this point, because T2 = T1. The only way for the pressure to be lower is manual manipulation.

a couple points here:

1. With a properly (or even underinflated ball), with enough time it will deflate X amount. What is that rate of pressure loss assuming normal atmosphere? You'd need to properly inflate a ball and leave it for the same amount of time between halftime of last weeks game and whenever the ball in point 3 above hypothetically reaches the league office, and see what the difference is there for a baseline.

2. All of point 1 assumes there is no delta in pressure for an inflated ball that goes up to 35,000ft in an airplane and then returns to ~sea level. Is this a safe assumption? Not snark as I honestly don't know.

 

[12punch]

it's just hilarious to me that these desperate Pat fans are trying to play the victim and acting like everyone else has an agenda. Can't people just hate cheaters? love trolling?

 

[jonessed]

Wow. What a big F-U to the League, the media, and the haters. He couldn't have been more emphatic. Wish he would have done this during Spygate.

Now watch all the mediots who blow with the wind change their tune. This thing blows over and is DEAD.

Nailed it.

The only bias I have is against ignorance and trolling, and posting without adding anything to the discussion besides name calling. Yeah, I'll continue to call that out every time I see it. In an unmoderated environment like this, it's really the only hope we have to clean this place up. I honestly don't mind a difference of opinion. I welcome it actually. Diversity is good.

 

[mbuehner]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

unfortunately, this isn't the first time they've been caught cheating (if that's how this turns out). Between this and Spygate, all the accomplishments of the Brady /Belichick era will have huge asterics. When a guy is caught cheating on his wide, multiple times, he doesn't get to remind his wife if all the nights he didn't cheat.

Let me guess, Steelers fan? No bias there.

no. Not a Steelers fan. Why does it matter? Being a fan of any of the other 31 teams is reason enough to be disgusted if New England has cheated again. Open your eyes Buddy. People are fed up with it. Doesn't matter what team they like.

This dude has a really weird preoccupation with the Steelers for some reason. No idea why.

it's just hilarious to me that these desperate Pat fans are trying to play the victim and acting like everyone else has an agenda. Can't people just hate cheaters?

The salt is strong with this one.

 

[moleculo]

(3) If I were running the sting operation and I found footballs (allegedly) 2 psi under spec, I would secure them in plastic bags, box them up, and immediately ship them to the league office. When the balls arrive at the league office, they would be double-checked again, and this check would take place at room temperature.
I think we can all agree that if the second check from (3) above, which takes place at room temperature, continues to show a sub-standard pressure, there is hard evidence that weather cannot account for. All of the ideal gas law stuff goes out the window at this point, because T2 = T1. The only way for the pressure to be lower is manual manipulation.

a couple points here:

1. With a properly (or even underinflated ball), with enough time it will deflate X amount. What is that rate of pressure loss assuming normal atmosphere? You'd need to properly inflate a ball and leave it for the same amount of time between halftime of last weeks game and whenever the ball in point 3 above hypothetically reaches the league office, and see what the difference is there for a baseline.

2. All of point 1 assumes there is no delta in pressure for an inflated ball that goes up to 35,000ft in an airplane and then returns to ~sea level. Is this a safe assumption? Not snark as I honestly don't know.

I saw a thing by Wilson stating that they inflate the ball to 120 PSI as part of their manufacturing process. That pressure proves out that the ball is air-tight. If so, I really doubt that (1) the ball would lose sigtnificant pressure over the course of a week and (2) changing altitude would be a completely reversable effect - that is, the internal pressure of the ball would be pushing against the leather harder at altitude and would cause it to stretch some, but not enough to cause permanent deformation.

Air pressure at 35000 feet is 3.46 PSI. Standard atmospheric air pressure at sea level is 14.7 PSI, so the effective altitude pressure inside the ball at 12 PSI (sea level) would be 23.24 PSI, far less than the 120 PSI Wilson uses.

 

[GoBirds]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Rodgers reference is ridiculous, he said he likes it fully inflated but he obviously means within the approved range for games.

He explicitly stated that he tries to overinflate them to see if they get through inspection, cause the worst thing that happens is they just lower the pressure.

Which we know is true, unless your the Pats.

For the ignorant, lazy ones who spend too much time trolling and not enough time learning about the subject...

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

Which game did he use an illegal ball in?

Keep digging for excuses.

It's not an excuse, its fact, it might be one that you don't like and doesn't fit the narrative you want to promote, but it is a fact. Just like Terry Bradshaw bragging about manipulating the footballs far worse, not an excuse, just a fact.......

So a 2nd hand comment about Rodgers saying he tries to have the officials approve over inflated balls.

Brady has been caught in a game and the story today was that there was footage AFTER official review where they might have been modified.

So you are saying that's the same? Who has the agenda.

Like so many others you are confusing what you want to be true with what we know to be true. From my perspective I don't want the patriots to be guilty of doctoring balls so I am trying as best I can to figure out fact from rumor and wishful thinking by the detractors.

Yes, it was an offhand comment from Rodgers that he liked the football overinflated and trys to get it by the refs; not an excuse, just a fact.

No, the FACT is Brady hasn't been caught or even charged with doing anything, some balls were found to be under inflated and it is being investigated. Maybe the balls were doctored and maybe Brady has culpability in that doctoring, but we do not know any of that to be fact.

It has been reported that there is footage of a ballboy going off camera where he "might have" done something, ok, maybe it will turn out he did something, but right now you can't claim we know for sure he actually did anything nefarious.

Rodgers made a comment...someone said...no evidence it happened.

Brady played the 1st half last game with balls that didnt meet regulation....11 of 12.

Sorry don't drag Rodgers into this to fit your agenda, not the same.

 

[Tango]

To clarify Harbaugh's involvement; it's not theory. He admitted in an interview where there is audio that:

1) His special teams complained to him (he is a former special teams coach), there's definitely no complaint about balls on offense or defense. Yes, yes...we all know the K-balls are quarantined (supposedly); doesnt matter in this context, that's what the Ravens' beef came from and what got the ball rollin',

2) The NFL called Ravens people and interviewed them about the special teams ball complaints. (How the NFL learned of complaints among a Ravens-only gathering has not been explained, but you connect the dots. The "Ravens should read the rule book" comment by Brady likely ticked them off and they made sure to slyly run it up the flagpole to NFL HQ

3) Harbaugh in the same interview then goes on to profusely praise Belichick and his integrity...and the media focuses on this #3 and all-but ignores #1 and #2.

 

[shader]

I disagree with the notion that both sides are going all in.

The Pats are going all in, I think we can all agree on that.

But the NFL? I think they are just completely incompetent. Not much more to it than that.

I can't think of one single scenario that would account for this taking a full week. It's ineptitude at its highest levels.

 

[Run It Up]

Brady played the 1st half last game with balls that didnt meet regulation....11 of 12.

Sorry don't drag Rodgers into this to fit your agenda, not the same.
Rodgers made a comment...someone said...no evidence it happened.

Rodgers commented on it later, went in to detail how he doesn't think its the same thing, because he believes overinflating a ball doesn't provide an advantage.

In other words, its okay if he does it.

Overinflating a ball allows it to travel further. In case there was any confusion.

 

[GoBirds]

Brady played the 1st half last game with balls that didnt meet regulation....11 of 12.

Sorry don't drag Rodgers into this to fit your agenda, not the same.
Rodgers made a comment...someone said...no evidence it happened.

Rodgers commented on it later, went in to detail how he doesn't think its the same thing, because he believes overinflating a ball doesn't provide an advantage.

In other words, its okay if he does it.

Overinflating a ball allows it to travel further. In case there was any confusion.

The comment provided made it sound like he was saying yeah I send them in to see if they get through, meaning the Refs correct it/have a chance to get it right.

Todays news is that after the Refs set the weight, the Pats then took the balls and altered. Totally different.

I'm sure this is in the 100 pages somewhere but pretty interesting.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12206777

Unless you're a Pats fan then its just trolling I guess.

 

[General Tso]

Wow. What a big F-U to the League, the media, and the haters. He couldn't have been more emphatic. Wish he would have done this during Spygate.

Now watch all the mediots who blow with the wind change their tune. This thing blows over and is DEAD.

Nailed it.

The only bias I have is against ignorance and trolling, and posting without adding anything to the discussion besides name calling. Yeah, I'll continue to call that out every time I see it. In an unmoderated environment like this, it's really the only hope we have to clean this place up. I honestly don't mind a difference of opinion. I welcome it actually. Diversity is good.

Not sure what you are saying or trying to prove here, but I have a simple solution, and one that works quite well. Ignore.As Francis said, "You just made the list buddy".

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I saw a thing by Wilson stating that they inflate the ball to 120 PSI as part of their manufacturing process.

ORLY

 

[JuniorNB]

Brady played the 1st half last game with balls that didnt meet regulation....11 of 12.

Sorry don't drag Rodgers into this to fit your agenda, not the same.

Rodgers made a comment...someone said...no evidence it happened.

Rodgers commented on it later, went in to detail how he doesn't think its the same thing, because he believes overinflating a ball doesn't provide an advantage.In other words, its okay if he does it.

Overinflating a ball allows it to travel further. In case there was any confusion.

you seriously can't see the difference between one QB saying he likes his ball a little harder and hopes it can he a little over inflated and pass pregame inspection, and a team letting air out AFTER the balls have been inspected?

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Rodgers reference is ridiculous, he said he likes it fully inflated but he obviously means within the approved range for games.

He explicitly stated that he tries to overinflate them to see if they get through inspection, cause the worst thing that happens is they just lower the pressure.

Which we know is true, unless your the Pats.

For the ignorant, lazy ones who spend too much time trolling and not enough time learning about the subject...

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

Which game did he use an illegal ball in?

Keep digging for excuses.

It's not an excuse, its fact, it might be one that you don't like and doesn't fit the narrative you want to promote, but it is a fact. Just like Terry Bradshaw bragging about manipulating the footballs far worse, not an excuse, just a fact.......

So a 2nd hand comment about Rodgers saying he tries to have the officials approve over inflated balls.

Brady has been caught in a game and the story today was that there was footage AFTER official review where they might have been modified.

So you are saying that's the same? Who has the agenda.

Like so many others you are confusing what you want to be true with what we know to be true. From my perspective I don't want the patriots to be guilty of doctoring balls so I am trying as best I can to figure out fact from rumor and wishful thinking by the detractors.

Yes, it was an offhand comment from Rodgers that he liked the football overinflated and trys to get it by the refs; not an excuse, just a fact.

No, the FACT is Brady hasn't been caught or even charged with doing anything, some balls were found to be under inflated and it is being investigated. Maybe the balls were doctored and maybe Brady has culpability in that doctoring, but we do not know any of that to be fact.

It has been reported that there is footage of a ballboy going off camera where he "might have" done something, ok, maybe it will turn out he did something, but right now you can't claim we know for sure he actually did anything nefarious.

Rodgers made a comment...someone said...no evidence it happened.

Brady played the 1st half last game with balls that didnt meet regulation....11 of 12.

Sorry don't drag Rodgers into this to fit your agenda, not the same.

I believe it is widely accepted as fact that Rodgers told Simms and Nance the following.

Curran reported on a clip from the Packers-Patriots game on Nov. 30, where CBS announcers Jim Nantz and Phil Simms discussed how Rodgers wanted the football he used to feel.

"(Rodgers) said something [that] was unique," Simms revealed. "[Rodgers said] 'I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it.' Because he thinks it's easier for him to grip. He likes them tight."

As Curran astutely points, out, "Ball manipulation could be an NFL epidemic."

Not only is it evidence, but unless you think Simms (and Nance?) are lying it is imho proof that Rodgers likes his balls to be over inflated.

How much were the balls under inflated and did Brady have any idea they were under inflated? Maybe yes, maybe no, but you do not know and neither do I so why not wait and see.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Wow. Looks like the NFL turned Mr.Kraft into a salty hater.