Peyton Hillis (1 Viewer)

[Cheesedawg]

I think labeling Hillis as a permanent low-end RB with little talent is inaccurate. He hasn't run as well this year as last, but there are some extenuating circumstances which could explain that. Regardless, his pass catching ability is special and he is one of the few RBs who is good on first, second, and third down as well as at the goal line. I think he will regain form before long, hammy-permitting, and might represent a good buy-low value for owners who are out shopping.

The positive of his struggles is that Hardesty has been exposed.

The discussion of race in this thread belongs in a different thread and forum IMO.

 

[bigunreal]

I apologize for sidetracking things. I mentioned race because I think it is the hidden component of what is going on between Hillis and the Browns. I got a bit defensive when the first "racist" jab was lobbed at me. Didn't mean to rant quite so much.

The comparison to Eddie George is a pretty good one, imho. I think Steven Jackson is another RB whose skill set is very simliar to Hillis'. As for McDaniels, I certainly agree he was monumentally incompetent, and obviously not playing Hillis wasn't his only mistake. I just think he looked at Hillis, much as Shurmur looks at Hillis, and saw a FB who wasn't capable of getting touches in the backfield.

I believe the best players should play. At this point, there should be little question that Hillis is by far the best Browns' RB, and really their only offensive playmaker (although Little may very well become one later in the season).

Do we have any updates about the exact nature of Hillis alleged hamstring injury? I do find it curious that we seem to be getting very little information about this.

 

[cvnpoka]

I apologize for sidetracking things. I mentioned race because I think it is the hidden component of what is going on between Hillis and the Browns. I got a bit defensive when the first "racist" jab was lobbed at me. Didn't mean to rant quite so much. The comparison to Eddie George is a pretty good one, imho. I think Steven Jackson is another RB whose skill set is very simliar to Hillis'. As for McDaniels, I certainly agree he was monumentally incompetent, and obviously not playing Hillis wasn't his only mistake. I just think he looked at Hillis, much as Shurmur looks at Hillis, and saw a FB who wasn't capable of getting touches in the backfield. I believe the best players should play. At this point, there should be little question that Hillis is by far the best Browns' RB, and really their only offensive playmaker (although Little may very well become one later in the season).Do we have any updates about the exact nature of Hillis alleged hamstring injury? I do find it curious that we seem to be getting very little information about this.

he had an mri and is listed as day to day. he ran in a pool today. i doubt he is ready to play sunday but who knows.

much as Shurmur looks at Hillis, and saw a FB who wasn't capable of getting touches in the backfield.

i think you have nothing to base this on. i rattled off evidence that the coaching staff very much intends to give hillis the ball a lot. realize, it wasnt the coaching staff that gave hillis strep throat and caused his body to weaken. it wasnt the coaching staff that tweaked his hamstring. when he was healthy he had 44 touches to hardesty's 8.

 

[moderated]

).Do we have any updates about the exact nature of Hillis alleged hamstring injury? I do find it curious that we seem to be getting very little information about this.

Last I heard the issue was that his hamstring was white.

 

[Football Jones]

Holmgren said there was no way he was going to trade Hillis because he was one of their best players. I believe him. Had Hillis not been injured (& I believe it's a legit injury), I think we would've seen him get the vast majority of touches last week. He's a much better RB & surely the coaching staff sees that. In fact, Hillis is one of the best all-around backs in the league, IMO. I believe the Browns want to sign him long-term, but at their price. It's probably as simple as that.

I can see Hillis' agent get in his ear about staying a FA & cashing in, though. And agent or not, I wouldn't be surprised to see Hillis, himself, give them the cold shoulder at this point unless Cleveland gives him a really nice long-term deal.

Interesting situation. Hillis will be a popular FA if he doesn't get re-signed.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter.

what is reuben droughns up to now?

 

[Touchdown There]

I believe the Browns want to sign him long-term, but at their price.

Is the going rate for a crackerback more or less money than DeAngelo Williams?

 

[Football Jones]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter.

what is reuben droughns up to now?

Droughns was in a system that was cranking out stud RBs left & right. Hillis was in no such system.I think some people are going to be shocked what kind of numbers Hillis can put up if he finds the right situation in FA.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter.

what is reuben droughns up to now?

Droughns was in a system that was cranking out stud RBs left & right. Hillis was in no such system.I think some people are going to be shocked what kind of numbers Hillis can put up if he finds the right situation in FA.

i was more thinking of the irony of his 1 good bulldozing season with the browns then flaming out really quickly

 

[SacramentoBob]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter.

You never see guys like Ladell Betts, Lamont Jordan, Natrone Means, Michael Bennett, Erric Pegram, Kevan Barlow and Rashaan Salaam have one good season and fade into bolivian.

 

[thayman]

I apologize for sidetracking things. I mentioned race because I think it is the hidden component of what is going on between Hillis and the Browns. I got a bit defensive when the first "racist" jab was lobbed at me. Didn't mean to rant quite so much. The comparison to Eddie George is a pretty good one, imho. I think Steven Jackson is another RB whose skill set is very simliar to Hillis'. As for McDaniels, I certainly agree he was monumentally incompetent, and obviously not playing Hillis wasn't his only mistake. I just think he looked at Hillis, much as Shurmur looks at Hillis, and saw a FB who wasn't capable of getting touches in the backfield. I believe the best players should play. At this point, there should be little question that Hillis is by far the best Browns' RB, and really their only offensive playmaker (although Little may very well become one later in the season).Do we have any updates about the exact nature of Hillis alleged hamstring injury? I do find it curious that we seem to be getting very little information about this.

So to be clear your point is that the white head coach and the white GM and the white owner are keeping the white running back from playing?

 

[SacramentoBob]

I apologize for sidetracking things. I mentioned race because I think it is the hidden component of what is going on between Hillis and the Browns. I got a bit defensive when the first "racist" jab was lobbed at me. Didn't mean to rant quite so much. The comparison to Eddie George is a pretty good one, imho. I think Steven Jackson is another RB whose skill set is very simliar to Hillis'. As for McDaniels, I certainly agree he was monumentally incompetent, and obviously not playing Hillis wasn't his only mistake. I just think he looked at Hillis, much as Shurmur looks at Hillis, and saw a FB who wasn't capable of getting touches in the backfield. I believe the best players should play. At this point, there should be little question that Hillis is by far the best Browns' RB, and really their only offensive playmaker (although Little may very well become one later in the season).Do we have any updates about the exact nature of Hillis alleged hamstring injury? I do find it curious that we seem to be getting very little information about this.

So to be clear your point is that the white head coach and the white GM and the white owner are keeping the white running back from playing?

That's what makes the conspiracy that much more sinister.

 

[Raider Nation]

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter.

You never see guys like Ladell Betts, Lamont Jordan, Natrone Means, Michael Bennett, Erric Pegram, Kevan Barlow and Rashaan Salaam have one good season and fade into bolivian.

Barry Foster feels left out.

 

[Neofight]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter.

You never see guys like Ladell Betts, Lamont Jordan, Natrone Means, Michael Bennett, Erric Pegram, Kevan Barlow and Rashaan Salaam have one good season and fade into bolivian.

No, but Butch and Sundance pulled it off.

 

[bigunreal]

I thought I made my point pretty clear. The same racist mentality that once prevented blacks from having an opportunity to play QB in the NFL prevents prolific white high school and college RBs from playing that position in today's NFL. Yes, the ones who are discriminating against white RBs are by and large white coaches and GMs. If you buy into racial stereotypes, then you believe blacks are "natural" athletes, and thus perfect for a position like RB.

To get back to Hillis, I keep hearing the mantra about him being a "one year wonder" Again, he didn't get a chance to run the ball regularly until last season. And it's not like he's been in the league for ten years- you can't expect someone to compile a lengthy resume when they haven't had the opportunity. As noted, he is not "slow," in fact he's faster than at least half of the starting RBs in today's NFL. He didn't have a great line last season (the right side was awful, as it is now), and he was the ONLY playmaker on offense, permitting opposing defenses to stack the box and key completely on him. This season, while we are told he has been so unimpressive, he is leading the league in yards after contact. That says a lot about the ineffectiveness of his line and the inept playcalling from Shurmur, as well as his toughness and ability to break tackles and still eke out positive yardage.

Now that Holmgren has publicly stated the team will permit Hillis to become a free agent, it will be interesting to see what happens next. If Shurmur allows him to carry the load, I think you'll see an angry and motivated Hillis do the best he possibly can. However, it won't be easy, because his line is horrendous and there are no other playmakers to take the attention away from him. And if Shurmur continues to call the same kind of unimaginative, predictable plays on offense, then he won't have much of a ypc, no matter how hard he tries. The worst case scenario is that the team purposefully keeps Hillis at a low snap and touch count, thereby limiting his effectiveness (he is clearly the kind of back who needs a lot of carries to get going and wear down a defense) and impacting his market value.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I apologize for sidetracking things. I mentioned race because I think it is the hidden component of what is going on between Hillis and the Browns. I got a bit defensive when the first "racist" jab was lobbed at me. Didn't mean to rant quite so much. The comparison to Eddie George is a pretty good one, imho. I think Steven Jackson is another RB whose skill set is very simliar to Hillis'. As for McDaniels, I certainly agree he was monumentally incompetent, and obviously not playing Hillis wasn't his only mistake. I just think he looked at Hillis, much as Shurmur looks at Hillis, and saw a FB who wasn't capable of getting touches in the backfield. I believe the best players should play. At this point, there should be little question that Hillis is by far the best Browns' RB, and really their only offensive playmaker (although Little may very well become one later in the season).Do we have any updates about the exact nature of Hillis alleged hamstring injury? I do find it curious that we seem to be getting very little information about this.

So to be clear your point is that the white head coach and the white GM and the white owner are keeping the white running back from playing?

Right, and because the great white back would not make tons of money marketing-wise, just as the idea of a great white hope in boxing is not the great marketing dream of that sport either.{= Agree: ????}

 

[bigunreal]

Virtually all the most marketable athletes in America today are black. Peyton Manning (often with his brother Eli) is the only white athlete I can think of who gets a ton of commercial opportunities. Even the top white players-Tom Brady, Drew Brees, etc.-aren't seen very often on television and don't really do commercials. Peyton Hillis had a great year in 2010- did he get any huge endorsement deals? By your logic, he should have been hawking products everywhere. You know, with his present salary, that he would have jumped at the chance to make that kind of extra money. Making the Madden cover was all the result of fan support, not commercial endorsements or the league standing behind him trying to hype him as a "white hope."

Whether the league would exploit someone as a "white hope," it can't be denied that few NFL coaches see white players as being capable of playing RB, or CB, at the very least. I think that's probably why contract talks between Hillis and the Browns are at a standstill. Hillis sees himself as a still young, every down back with great potential to keep matching his accomplishments from last season. The Browns see him as a Mike Alstott-type (yes, that's ususally the first name everyone seems to compare him to-wonder why?) who is no more than a tweener back who can handle goal line work and a light number of carries per game. They don't see him as a franchise RB, and I maintain that is because he looks different from all the other starting NFL running backs.

 

[cvnpoka]

Virtually all the most marketable athletes in America today are black. Peyton Manning (often with his brother Eli) is the only white athlete I can think of who gets a ton of commercial opportunities. Even the top white players-Tom Brady, Drew Brees, etc.-aren't seen very often on television and don't really do commercials. Peyton Hillis had a great year in 2010- did he get any huge endorsement deals? By your logic, he should have been hawking products everywhere. You know, with his present salary, that he would have jumped at the chance to make that kind of extra money. Making the Madden cover was all the result of fan support, not commercial endorsements or the league standing behind him trying to hype him as a "white hope."

Whether the league would exploit someone as a "white hope," it can't be denied that few NFL coaches see white players as being capable of playing RB, or CB, at the very least. I think that's probably why contract talks between Hillis and the Browns are at a standstill. Hillis sees himself as a still young, every down back with great potential to keep matching his accomplishments from last season. The Browns see him as a Mike Alstott-type (yes, that's ususally the first name everyone seems to compare him to-wonder why?) who is no more than a tweener back who can handle goal line work and a light number of carries per game. They don't see him as a franchise RB, and I maintain that is because he looks different from all the other starting NFL running backs.

and you have absolutely nothing to base this on.heres the thing, teams dont value rbs very highly. hillis is a rb. just like forte, chris johnson, ahmad bradshaw, frank gore and cedric benson, all of whom had contract squabbles this offseason.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Virtually all the most marketable athletes in America today are black. Peyton Manning (often with his brother Eli) is the only white athlete I can think of who gets a ton of commercial opportunities. Even the top white players-Tom Brady, Drew Brees, etc.-aren't seen very often on television and don't really do commercials. Peyton Hillis had a great year in 2010- did he get any huge endorsement deals? By your logic, he should have been hawking products everywhere. You know, with his present salary, that he would have jumped at the chance to make that kind of extra money. Making the Madden cover was all the result of fan support, not commercial endorsements or the league standing behind him trying to hype him as a "white hope."

Whether the league would exploit someone as a "white hope," it can't be denied that few NFL coaches see white players as being capable of playing RB, or CB, at the very least. I think that's probably why contract talks between Hillis and the Browns are at a standstill. Hillis sees himself as a still young, every down back with great potential to keep matching his accomplishments from last season. The Browns see him as a Mike Alstott-type (yes, that's ususally the first name everyone seems to compare him to-wonder why?) who is no more than a tweener back who can handle goal line work and a light number of carries per game. They don't see him as a franchise RB, and I maintain that is because he looks different from all the other starting NFL running backs.

I am not sure where the current full Q-Scores list but the tops in the NFL arelayer Team Awareness Score Overall Positive Q

Peyton Manning Colts 66 29

Troy Polamalu Steelers 40 25

Drew Brees Saints 55 22

Tim Tebow Broncos 42 22

Aaron Rodgers Packers 35 21

Tom Brady Patriots 66 15

I could be wrong but I think the Q-score is the gold standard for measuring marketability.

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2011/04/04/how-does-patriots-qb-tom-bradys-q-rating-compare-with-some-other-nfl-stars/

 

[cvnpoka]

he is blatantly wrong about that as obv white athletes are very well represented by marketing deals. golfers, nascar drivers and qbs are ubiquitous.

 

[bigunreal]

The difference between your examples of other RBs who have had contract issues this season, and Peyton Hillis, is that none of them have to worry about an idiotic coach limiting their opportunities, and thereby destroying their market value. And virtually all of them have a much better backup RB than Hardesty. Certainly the inept, perpetual 3.0 ypc Cedric Benson should have lost carries to Bernard Scott (and Brian Leonard, in a fair world) a long time ago. Still, even with all his off the field incidents, the Bengals keep welcoming the slow, underwhelming Benson back.

I'm not suggesting that owners and coaches don't screw over black players (see DeAngelo Williams' career as a prime example)- it happens all the time. I'm just stating that these coaches view certain positions-consciously or unconsciously-through a racial prism. Kickers, punters, long snappers and holders- they see only white players. Running backs and cornerbacks- they see only black players. Successful white running backs, often faster and more productive than countless black RBs who are given opportunites, are routinely converted to fullback if and when they make the NFL. I just happen to believe that Shurmur, and probably Holmgren, want to do this with Hillis. Because Hillis had the season he did last year, they have an extra incentive here, of not wanting to pay him what a franchise back of his caliber should be paid. They'd much rather pay less for a blocking fullback.

 

[cvnpoka]

why are you so certain that shurmur is limiting hillis's carries? did you not read my workload breakdown, or are you deliberately ignoring it bc it renders your argument ridiculous? the first 2 games of the yr hillis had 44 touches to hardesty's 8. is it not reasonable that his split carries in his return from strep throat bc he was still not fully strong? and you are, ofc, ignoring that immediately after that game shurmur insisted hillis needed more touches and would get them. shurmer did not limit hillis last game, hillis got hurt and couldnt play.

 

[cvnpoka]

I'm not suggesting that owners and coaches don't screw over black players (see DeAngelo Williams' career as a prime example)

and this might be the most bizarre statement in the whole thread.

 

[thayman]

I'm not suggesting that owners and coaches don't screw over black players (see DeAngelo Williams' career as a prime example)

and this might be the most bizarre statement in the whole thread.

Williams cetainly was screwed over by The Panthers this off season.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm not suggesting that owners and coaches don't screw over black players (see DeAngelo Williams' career as a prime example)

and this might be the most bizarre statement in the whole thread.

Actually consider the part where it's suggested Brian Leonard should be getting carries over Cedric Benson, or would be in a "fair' world.

 

[bigunreal]

Let me address some of the mindless comments in recent posts.

The audacity of someone suggesting Brian Leonard should be getting playing time over Cedric Benson? Let's see, Leonard is bigger, faster and a much better receiver than Benson, who has had one good season in his otherwise bust of a career. He is a plodding, 3.0 ypc back who gives you nothing in the passing game. Throw in his constant arrests and you certainly have an attractive teammate! Boy, I sure am "racist" to go there, huh? DeAngelo Williams most certainly has been given the shaft, in terms of how he's been used throughout most of his career. He's never been given the kind of touches other top backs get, and despite being a good receiver has always been frozen out of the passing game. Of course, he benefited tremendously from the ridiculous contract the Panthers just gave him, but that doesn't change the fact that first Fox and now the new coaching staff have derailed what could easily have been a Hall of Fame career.

Do your research on commerical endorsements. NBA players like John Wall get more endorsement money than NFL superstars like Tom Brady. Just the sneaker money alone is mind boggling, and NFL players don't get that. So you can more clearly understand the issue, here's a link to the top 50 wealthiest athletes in 2010, including all endorsements: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/specials/fortunate50-2010/index.html Note that only one 1 white is in the top 10, and only 12 appear on the top 50 list. I think that kind of refutes any contention that the powers that be are looking for a "great white hope."

Back to Hillis; he is a faster than average, bigger than average running back with superior hands and great after contact ability. He has produced at the highest level in the only two opportunities he's been given to do so during his NFL career. I think he's getting royally screwed, and I think race is a huge reason why.

 

[thayman]

Let me address some of the mindless comments in recent posts.

The audacity of someone suggesting Brian Leonard should be getting playing time over Cedric Benson? Let's see, Leonard is bigger, faster and a much better receiver than Benson, who has had one good season in his otherwise bust of a career. He is a plodding, 3.0 ypc back who gives you nothing in the passing game. Throw in his constant arrests and you certainly have an attractive teammate! Boy, I sure am "racist" to go there, huh?

Do your research on commerical endorsements. NBA players like John Wall get more endorsement money than NFL superstars like Tom Brady. Just the sneaker money alone is mind boggling, and NFL players don't get that. So you can more clearly understand the issue, here's a link to the top 50 wealthiest athletes in 2010, including all endorsements: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/specials/fortunate50-2010/index.html Note that only one 1 white is in the top 10, and only 12 appear on the top 50 list. I think that kind of refutes any contention that the powers that be are looking for a "great white hope."

Back to Hillis; he is a faster than average, bigger than average running back with superior hands and great after contact ability. He has produced at the highest level in the only two opportunities he's been given to do so during his NFL career. I think he's getting royally screwed, and I think race is a huge reason why.

On your list Phil Mickelson is #2 and Peyton Manning is #9

 

[bigunreal]

Okay, I made a minor miscount. So TWO of the top ten are white, and 13 out of the top 50. Boy, guess my point was all wrong and the corporate powers that be are really promoting all the "great white hopes."

 

[thayman]

Okay, I made a minor miscount. So TWO of the top ten are white, and 13 out of the top 50. Boy, guess my point was all wrong and the corporate powers that be are really promoting all the "great white hopes."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/specials/fortunate50-2011/index.htmlSeems so when you look at this years list.

 

[bigunreal]

Okay, I made a minor miscount. So TWO of the top ten are white, and 13 out of the top 50. Boy, guess my point was all wrong and the corporate powers that be are really promoting all the "great white hopes."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/specials/fortunate50-2011/index.htmlSeems so when you look at this years list.

Not really- there are 17 whites out of the 50 wealthiest athletes on this list.

 

[bigunreal]

Again, a transparent, childist attempt to avoid the issue and quash debate. I don't have "issues" with blacks or any other group of people. And more whites, or all whites, populating the list of the 50 wealthiest athletes doesn't change my life in the least, so your swipe about things "going in the direction I like" is just sarcastic pablum.

This thread has strayed from the original topic of Peyton Hillis. I brought race up because I think it applies to his situation. I didn't intend to make this into a referendum about race and sports.

 

[bigunreal]

And the brilliant, substantive responses continue. Like so many immature posters on the internet, you react to disagreements by calling names. That's a tired tactic that no longer works.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

i know Brady and Rodgers(especially) and i think Brees have publicly came out and said they've turned down endorsements and TV opps. they'd rather be more to themselves and their families and not really be Media Darlings like Peyton or Favre. Can you imagine if Brady did go out and sell his soul like many other athletes? he's already plastered everywhere and he doesn't even try

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter.

You never see guys like Ladell Betts, Lamont Jordan, Natrone Means, Michael Bennett, Erric Pegram, Kevan Barlow and Rashaan Salaam have one good season and fade into bolivian.

BarryArian Foster feels left out.

fixed

 

[cvnpoka]

Let me address some of the mindless comments in recent posts.

The audacity of someone suggesting Brian Leonard should be getting playing time over Cedric Benson? Let's see, Leonard is bigger, faster and a much better receiver than Benson, who has had one good season in his otherwise bust of a career. He is a plodding, 3.0 ypc back who gives you nothing in the passing game. Throw in his constant arrests and you certainly have an attractive teammate! Boy, I sure am "racist" to go there, huh? DeAngelo Williams most certainly has been given the shaft, in terms of how he's been used throughout most of his career. He's never been given the kind of touches other top backs get, and despite being a good receiver has always been frozen out of the passing game. Of course, he benefited tremendously from the ridiculous contract the Panthers just gave him, but that doesn't change the fact that first Fox and now the new coaching staff have derailed what could easily have been a Hall of Fame career.

Do your research on commerical endorsements. NBA players like John Wall get more endorsement money than NFL superstars like Tom Brady. Just the sneaker money alone is mind boggling, and NFL players don't get that. So you can more clearly understand the issue, here's a link to the top 50 wealthiest athletes in 2010, including all endorsements: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/specials/fortunate50-2010/index.html Note that only one 1 white is in the top 10, and only 12 appear on the top 50 list. I think that kind of refutes any contention that the powers that be are looking for a "great white hope."

Back to Hillis; he is a faster than average, bigger than average running back with superior hands and great after contact ability. He has produced at the highest level in the only two opportunities he's been given to do so during his NFL career. I think he's getting royally screwed, and I think race is a huge reason why.

why have you not addressed that the only reason he has lost workload is bc of injury? why do you think the browns staff is freezing him out when he was given 44 touches to hardesty's 8 in his only healthy games?

 

[SacramentoBob]

Let me address some of the mindless comments in recent posts.

Starting with yours?

 

[red]

Ahhhh. Why do I keep clicking on this thread hoping to read Hillis news

recalled

 

[SacramentoBob]

"Irish" Peyton Hillis

 

[jackdubl]

Do your research on commerical endorsements. NBA players like John Wall get more endorsement money than NFL superstars like Tom Brady. Just the sneaker money alone is mind boggling, and NFL players don't get that. So you can more clearly understand the issue, here's a link to the top 50 wealthiest athletes in 2010, including all endorsements: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/specials/fortunate50-2010/index.html Note that only one 1 white is in the top 10, and only 12 appear on the top 50 list. I think that kind of refutes any contention that the powers that be are looking for a "great white hope."

Pretty sure endorsements have more to do with the target audience you are selling to than your own personal feelings on race.

 

[cvnpoka]

Ahhhh. Why do I keep clicking on this thread hoping to read Hillis news recalled

heres some news. hillis was not at the start of practice today. rotoworld says it would be "a major upset" if he plays.also, i watched the oakland game to find evidence to support bigunreal's assertions that the browns staff is deliberately holding hillis back. hillis played the first 2 series and had 5 carries and was targeted once. hardesty was the back for the first 2 plays of the next series. on 2nd and 11, both backs were out there, hardesty motioned to wr. on 3rd and 11, hillis was the only back. oakland penalty gave them another crack for a 3rd and 6. again, it was hillis in the backfield.browns manage to pick up the first down and give hardesty a carry for 1 yard. on 2nd and 9 both backs are in i-formation, and ruhrohhhh, hillis is lined up at fb. bigunreal will likely claim victory here, as hillis appearing like a fb for 1 single play should be all the evidence he needs. anyway, hillis runs a pass route. next play is more fuel for the fire as hardesty is in on 1st and goal from the inch line, they throw a td to the 3rd string te.next drive hillis gets the first carry and then is thrown to for a nice 16 yard catch and run that is nullified by penalty. he is a bit slow and gimpy after the play but nothing unusual. that was his last play until he came in as a blocker late in the game.my take is that they intended to give hillis a 2:1 workload and have hillis be the passing down back. the first 2 drives were all hillis. the 3rd drive was hardesty, but hillis was on the field a few plays and on passing 3rd downs. the 4th drive started hillis and then he left with injury.

 

[LargeMouthBass]

So what you are saying is Cleveland just sucks? Well I can't argue with that...

 

[cvnpoka]

no this is what i was saying

my take is that they intended to give hillis a 2:1 workload and have hillis be the passing down back. the first 2 drives were all hillis. the 3rd drive was hardesty, but hillis was on the field a few plays and on passing 3rd downs. the 4th drive started hillis and then he left with injury.

 

[Raider Nation]

Hillis was spotted at a tanning salon today. Not sure what that's all about.

 

[Dought Man]

Hillis was spotted at a tanning salon today. Not sure what that's all about.

Browns didn't allow him to do the gym, but tan and laundry are still in the arsenal.

 

[bigunreal]

I realize that Hillis was given a lot of carries the first few games this season- in fact, he had more touches than any other back in the league during that time. Hoewver, obviously something more than "strep throat" happened before the Miami game. The following week, recall that Hillis started out running well again, but was frozen out during the game, and Hardesty inexplicably played more than him during the second half, despite struggling mightily (dropped 4 passes, anemic ypc). The announcers noticed it and were perplexed about what was going on. Afterwards, both fans and media began to speculate that Hillis was being punished by Shurmur for missing the previous game.

Last week, the pattern was repeated; Hillis started out as the lead back, as was noted here, and had the bulk of the early carries. Unlike the previous week, he struggled against a stacked front. He just disappeared after the nice catch and run that was nullified by a penalty. He was seen standing on the sidelines, never with any trainer, never on a bike. The initial ESPN report was that he'd been benched by a coach's decision. He looked ticked off and was seen by many people to lobby the coaches to go back in, but was brushed off and almost ignored. So, if that sounds like a "hamstring" injury to you, we disagree.

Again, we are being given little to no news about this "hamstring" injury. We heard a lot more about Foster's early hamstring issues this season, in comparison. I don't care what Holmgren or Shurmur says, I think this is a bogus "injury" to cover up the very real contention between Hillis and the Browns. At this point, nothing that happens would surprise me. If Hillis plays any time soon, I'll be amazed. All Hillis owners should hope Hardesty continues to stink, because if he even matches his pedestrian 67 yards on 14 carries against Miami, which was treated by the media as if he'd broken a single game rushing record, then Hillis will either play fullback or simply waste away on the bench.

 

[Johnny Detroit]

not a good practice today for Montario Hardesty. heard they yanked him off the field for dropping passes.

 

[farroki]

bump ogbonnaya

 

[Flying Elvis]

I realize that Hillis was given a lot of carries the first few games this season- in fact, he had more touches than any other back in the league during that time. Hoewver, obviously something more than "strep throat" happened before the Miami game. The following week, recall that Hillis started out running well again, but was frozen out during the game, and Hardesty inexplicably played more than him during the second half, despite struggling mightily (dropped 4 passes, anemic ypc). The announcers noticed it and were perplexed about what was going on. Afterwards, both fans and media began to speculate that Hillis was being punished by Shurmur for missing the previous game. Last week, the pattern was repeated; Hillis started out as the lead back, as was noted here, and had the bulk of the early carries. Unlike the previous week, he struggled against a stacked front. He just disappeared after the nice catch and run that was nullified by a penalty. He was seen standing on the sidelines, never with any trainer, never on a bike. The initial ESPN report was that he'd been benched by a coach's decision. He looked ticked off and was seen by many people to lobby the coaches to go back in, but was brushed off and almost ignored. So, if that sounds like a "hamstring" injury to you, we disagree. Again, we are being given little to no news about this "hamstring" injury. We heard a lot more about Foster's early hamstring issues this season, in comparison. I don't care what Holmgren or Shurmur says, I think this is a bogus "injury" to cover up the very real contention between Hillis and the Browns. At this point, nothing that happens would surprise me. If Hillis plays any time soon, I'll be amazed. All Hillis owners should hope Hardesty continues to stink, because if he even matches his pedestrian 67 yards on 14 carries against Miami, which was treated by the media as if he'd broken a single game rushing record, then Hillis will either play fullback or simply waste away on the bench.

This seems spot on to me. Everything about this situation is off. It looks to me like the Browns (Shurmur?) are being absolutely idiotic with the whole issue to the detriment of the team. Hardesty looks mediocre at best and, rather than pay & play Hillis, the Browns seem content to linger in mediocrity and stunt the potential development of both McCoy and Little. They had a pretty mean play action game last year and a studly offensive line. Fast forward to a new offensive system and suddenly the offense is anemic on a weekly basis.Total nonsense. I have Hillis on the cheap in a keeper league. All I can hope for is a move to a better situation next year, as I expect zero useful performances out of him this season. Hardesty has made it pretty clear he isn't stellar and they still won't roll with Hillis so I see no reason to expect a change.

 

[cvnpoka]

what evidence do you guys have that this is a "fake injury"?

to the contrary, i can point to reports that hillis had an mri and is doing light rehab. you can point to what? your gut feeling?

 

[cvnpoka]

The initial ESPN report was that he'd been benched by a coach's decision.

i dont remember this. the announcers were confused why he wasnt playing. in the mid 3rd they relayed that they were finally informed he had a hamstring injury. even if the initial espn report said it was coaches decision, it was obviously pure speculation on espn's part.