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QB Baker Mayfield, TB (1 Viewer)

nirad3 said:
Ooh, definitely missed the fact he was on Colin's show.  Been streaming World Cup instead of The Herd the past week or so.  Colin isn't shy about his Mayfield hate.  That must have been one hell of an interview.  
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I was embarrassed for Colin and his family watching it. If I was his wife, I would leave him. 

 
The best part of that exchange is when CC realizes he's been owned and starts talking about "tight Windows" and other off topic nonsense. He ended up sounding like he was answering a question about maps in a beauty contest.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
The best part of that exchange is when CC realizes he's been owned and starts talking about "tight Windows" and other off topic nonsense. He ended up sounding like he was answering a question about maps in a beauty contest.
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He was trying to equate Baker running to celebrate with fans instead of teammates to poor spit decision making that won't hold up in the NFL. Unreal. Cowherd who I doubt ever played organized football in his life is lecturing a Heisman winning QB on the differences in decision making between college and NFL. People watch this guy?

 
Time will tell if Cowherd is right or not. Mayfield doing well in that interview does not make Cowherd wrong. Cowherd's points all along have been that franchise QBs are rarely guys who do immature things like having to avoid the cops, grabbing their crotch, etc.  Mayfield's talent is obvious, but the great QBs do above the neck, not just with their God-given talent.  Mayfield seems more Ryan Leaf than Peyton Manning, but I am sure he is eager to prove a lot of people wrong. 

 
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Ghost Rider said:
Time will tell if Cowherd is right or not. Mayfield doing well in that interview does not make Cowherd wrong. Cowherd's points all along have been that franchise QBs are rarely guys who do immature things like having to avoid the cops, grabbing their crotch, etc.  Mayfield's talent is obvious, but the great QBs do above the neck, not just with their God-given talent.  Mayfield seems more Ryan Leaf than Peyton Manning, but I am sure he is eager to prove a lot of people wrong. 
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Don't kid yourself, they all did plenty of this.  Baker was just unfortunate enough to get caught/grow up in this horrible world of medial/social over-saturation..  Manning tea-bagged a trainer and we didn't hear about it for 20 years.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Time will tell if Cowherd is right or not. Mayfield doing well in that interview does not make Cowherd wrong. Cowherd's points all along have been that franchise QBs are rarely guys who do immature things like having to avoid the cops, grabbing their crotch, etc.  Mayfield's talent is obvious, but the great QBs do above the neck, not just with their God-given talent.  Mayfield seems more Ryan Leaf than Peyton Manning, but I am sure he is eager to prove a lot of people wrong. 
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As far as I know, Baker didn't rub his bare ### on a female trainer's face.

 
Hankmoody said:
Don't kid yourself, they all did plenty of this.  Baker was just unfortunate enough to get caught/grow up in this horrible world of medial/social over-saturation..  Manning tea-bagged a trainer and we didn't hear about it for 20 years.
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You might be right, but Mayfield is a multiple offender when it comes to doing immature things we know about.  It's not like he did one stupid thing that we just happened to hear about.  What other top QB prospects in the last x-amount of years grabbed their crotch while talking smack to the other team?  What other top QB prospects got caught on camera trying to get away from the cops?  I certainly agree that the current social media often blows any perceived misdeed into the crime of the century, but I just simply agree that there are a lot of red flags with Mayfield when it comes to his maturity and off the field decision-making.  

 
Hankmoody said:
Don't kid yourself, they all did plenty of this.  Baker was just unfortunate enough to get caught/grow up in this horrible world of medial/social over-saturation..  Manning tea-bagged a trainer and we didn't hear about it for 20 years.
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Giraffes gone wild

 
Ghost Rider said:
You might be right, but Mayfield is a multiple offender when it comes to doing immature things we know about.  It's not like he did one stupid thing that we just happened to hear about.  What other top QB prospects in the last x-amount of years grabbed their crotch while talking smack to the other team?  What other top QB prospects got caught on camera trying to get away from the cops?  I certainly agree that the current social media often blows any perceived misdeed into the crime of the century, but I just simply agree that there are a lot of red flags with Mayfield when it comes to his maturity and off the field decision-making.  
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What difference does that make?  They are better people because no one saw (or told) what they did?  Kids do dumb things.  Big freaking deal.  If he's doing them in a year or two, once he's begun to ingrain into a professional environment then maybe it's a concern.  But college kids being college kids isn't.

 
Hankmoody said:
What difference does that make?  They are better people because no one saw (or told) what they did?  Kids do dumb things.  Big freaking deal.  If he's doing them in a year or two, once he's begun to ingrain into a professional environment then maybe it's a concern.  But college kids being college kids isn't.
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That is why I said, "Time will tell."  I did not say he is going to be a bust, just that I agree with the take that he has some red flags and has the opportunity to prove the doubters wrong.  I am not sure he is with the right franchise to have the best opportunity to do so, but, again, time will tell.  I won't be surprised if he lives up to his draft spot, but I also won't be surprised if he is a total bust. 

 
I just drafted him at #19 in a 16 team rookie dynasty draft. I was on the fence between him and Lamar Jackson. There were four reasons why I went with Mayfield. Only the first two are legitimate reasons.

1. Cleveland's receiving corps looks legit and it should be for at least a few years.

2. I think that the front office did their homework on Mayfield. They do not want another Manziel situation and they are willing to redshirt him this season to learn the ropes. 

3. I own Tyrod in that league.

4. I am a Cleveland homer.

 
Ghost Rider said:
That is why I said, "Time will tell."  I did not say he is going to be a bust, just that I agree with the take that he has some red flags and has the opportunity to prove the doubters wrong.  I am not sure he is with the right franchise to have the best opportunity to do so, but, again, time will tell.  I won't be surprised if he lives up to his draft spot, but I also won't be surprised if he is a total bust. 
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When you state that you think Mayfield is on the Leaf side of the Manning to Leaf QB scale, then yeah you’re pretty much saying he’ll be a bust as a 1.01 pick.

 
One of the main reasons I wanted this kid #1 (and oh, I how I remember how I was dumped on for it) was his leadership... His command of those around him. 

People think he's a punk, but what he did to Cowherd was cold and calculated and calm. How a leader becomes a leader.

 
Soulfly3 said:
One of the main reasons I wanted this kid #1 (and oh, I how I remember how I was dumped on for it) was his leadership... His command of those around him. 

People think he's a punk, but what he did to Cowherd was cold and calculated and calm. How a leader becomes a leader.
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:wall:

Damnit. I was on the fence between him and Rosen. Was leaning Rosen leading up to my draft. Then when I was up and felt frisky and take Mayfield. I didn't know he was Soulcursed. I would have gone Rosen for sure had I had that info. 

Damn youuuuuu Soulflyyyyyyyyy!!!  

 
I’ve got #2 this year in a super flex which is where the consensus for that format seems to be, but standard rookie rankings have him behind guys like Rosen and Jackson. What gives?

 
-jb- said:
I’ve got #2 this year in a super flex which is where the consensus for that format seems to be, but standard rookie rankings have him behind guys like Rosen and Jackson. What gives?
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He came across brash and arrogant to some people. Unfortunately some see him as this year’s JM. I’m not in that group I still believe he’s the best QB in this class. I held this position since last year and nothing has changed that. Lamar is intriguing as a fantasy prospect and his talent shouldn’t be ignored.

Tex

 
Shame we won't see him for a little while since Hue is going to be stubborn for no good reason. Tyrod is fine, but he isn't close to Mayfield in ability. The recent quotes from Hue suggest he will start Tyrod even if it's clear in preseason that Mayfield is better. What a genius. 

And before anyone comes with the angle that it's smart to give him time on the bench rather than "throw him to the wolves" and ruin him because he's not "ready", or that Hue is smart to slow play this because of what happened with Kizer, there's a big difference here. Kizer is really a truly terrible QB - putting him in games as a rookie was always going to be a disaster and may have indeed set him back (although I don't think he is good enough anyway to last in the league).

Mayfield isn't Kizer - it's comparing apples and oranges. Every situation is different - Mayfield is a #1 draft pick, terrific QB prospect, he's not some developmental project like Kizer who you hope will work out. Young high end QBs coming into the league now are more ready than ever - if Tyrod is great in preseason and he's the best QB on the roster as of right now, then fine, start him by all means. But to commit to that course no questions asked is just idiotic old-school garbage IMO. 

(and yes, I'm a keen Mayfield owner who is biased!)

 
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If a team can afford to, it is wise to let a rookie QB observe and get acclimated. 

Assuming the OC is in a booth, I'd even suggest Baker sit in the booth with him.

Baker is not quiet. If he is quiet with the Browns then he's probably still soaking everything in and learning all humble like. I wouldn't put him on the field until that fire is lit. Hue will know. Heck we all might know. His game is confidence and moxie and... just wait, you'll know when he is ready

 
This is the stuff I like to see.  He knows he’s not there yet, but he also is getting acclimated to the pro game.

Game has “slowed down exponentially” for Baker Mayfield

Josh Alper

12 hours ago

Rookie quarterback Baker Mayfield has been on the job for the Browns for about three months and he’s noticed a change in how he’s processing the game over that period.

Mayfield said Tuesday that the speed has dropped since he first arrived in Cleveland and that it has dropped even more since the start of training camp, although things are still moving faster for him than they did in college.

“It’s starting to slow down but it’s going to take a little bit to get to the level I was at Oklahoma,” Mayfield said, via ESPN.com. “That’s just part of the growing process. There’s been a lot of improvement since I first got here for rookie minicamp that it’s slowed down exponentially. I’m excited where it’s at right now.”

Mayfield will get his first chance to gauge the speed of a defense tasked with hitting him when the Browns face the Giants on Thursday night. As a backup to Tyrod Taylor, he’s set to play “quite a bit” in that game and says he’s excited “to take advantage of the opportunity” to continue the learning process in his first NFL game action.
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Dr. Octopus said:
And what happens if Tyrod Taylor gets hurt in a game?
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Agreed.  That didn’t make any sense to me either but I elected not to comment.  You want Mayfield on the sidelines with a headset on, interacting with Taylor and the coaches as it happens.  You also want him seeing stuff field level.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Agreed.  That didn’t make any sense to me either but I elected not to comment.  You want Mayfield on the sidelines with a headset on, interacting with Taylor and the coaches as it happens.  You also want him seeing stuff field level.
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all that stuff, especially him talking with Taylor on the sidelines, is very important as well. Obviously the booth idea makes no sense from a logistics standpoint (is Mayfield going to run down to get in the game?) but it really doesn't make sense of any level.

I like Bri - not trying to insult him - I just think he didn't really think that one through.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I like Bri - not trying to insult him - I just think he didn't really think that one through.
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Me too, which is why I didn’t intially post.  I think I’ve posted a couple of things in the past that got his hackles up, and I didn’t want to make it seem like I was here gunning for him.

 
RushHour said:
Shame we won't see him for a little while since Hue is going to be stubborn for no good reason. Tyrod is fine, but he isn't close to Mayfield in ability. The recent quotes from Hue suggest he will start Tyrod even if it's clear in preseason that Mayfield is better. What a genius. 
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It doesn't really matter since there's been no indication of Mayfield outplaying Taylor.

 
There are aot of QB stories about how they were played too early. A lot of them. I've never heard a peep about a QB saying they busted because they were made to wait. Let the kid hold the clipboard. Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning... you guys think they'd have been better QBs if they started right away? Be patient. This one year is a drop in the bucket for Baker's career. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
And what happens if Tyrod Taylor gets hurt in a game?
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Third stringer goes in. Baker shouldn't play til he is ready. I think its that cut and dry. Once he is in, he may be there 15 years. Do things right "for once" and be sure the rook is ready. 

Taylor getting hurt (since we're talking Cleveland) might be the line missing Joe Thomas' leadership or playing poorly. Then NO also. Unless the line plays halfway decent Baker shouldn't go in. 

I bet he is ready by midseason maybe week 6. If it takes time for the line to gel or the third stringer has to get a start, then it will. 

This is a franchise that has been awful with talented rookie QBs for a decade or longer. Commit to him with patience.

I'm old enough to have seen this franchise start anew with a talented QB named Tim Couch. He got hit so many times and was thrown to the wolves so quickly he looked completely different some time during year two. Like Derek Carr, he might have had a pretty good career if he didn't look almost terrified. Couch threw a beautiful long ball to KJ. He had a little Steve Young to his roll out. He had talent to work with but instead he is on every great LB or DEs highlight reel for taking shots.

Who is Lamar Jackson's backup? That's an interesting choice for a third stringer.

Give development some thought on Mayfield rather than plug and play. The NFL is loaded with Lebeau and Belichick taught defensive guys and they have feasted on rookies for 80 years or so combined. Mayfield doesn't have to be a lamb to the slaughter. I know this took an extreme turn but so are you guys. Tyrod was brought there and (sadly?) The top free agent QB. You're gonna have to find some patience.

 
Sebowski said:
There are aot of QB stories about how they were played too early. A lot of them. I've never heard a peep about a QB saying they busted because they were made to wait. Let the kid hold the clipboard. Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning... you guys think they'd have been better QBs if they started right away? Be patient. This one year is a drop in the bucket for Baker's career. 
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Eli's rookie year was so bad that it is now comical and fascinating how much he improved. Google the Ravens D and Eli manning for a "no way" type story

 
Bri said:
Third stringer goes in. Baker shouldn't play til he is ready. I think its that cut and dry. Once he is in, he may be there 15 years. Do things right "for once" and be sure the rook is ready. 
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So Mayfield is inactive every week? That would make him the third stringer and mean he'd be getting very little reps in practice each week. Now that would be a very Brownsesque thing to do.

 
Sebowski said:
There are aot of QB stories about how they were played too early. A lot of them. I've never heard a peep about a QB saying they busted because they were made to wait. Let the kid hold the clipboard. Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning... you guys think they'd have been better QBs if they started right away? Be patient. This one year is a drop in the bucket for Baker's career. 
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I agree there’s no rush. But I’m not saying they’d be better QBs if they started right away. I guess I’m just saying we don’t know that they would have been “worse”. I’m challenging the idea that there’s some inherent benefit in letting a guy hold a clipboard for some amount of time vs playing him right away. We assume sitting for a while was good for Rodgers because he turned out to be great. It’s impossible to know whether that path played any meaningful role in making him great or, more importantly, whether playing earlier would have harmed him in some way. There’s also a difference between sitting and waiting your turn behind a HOF QB like Favre and backing up Tyrod Taylor. 

To me, Mayfield will succeed or fail based on his talent, mental makeup, resilience etc. Whether the Browns start him week one, wait 3 weeks, or 10 weeks or a whole season, is pretty irrelevant in terms of the ultimate outcome. Just my opinion. 

 
they're going to start him week 1.they need to drive interest to an 0-16, team.if he looks just a pinch better than Taylor, he'll start opening day. you're not drafting him #1 to sit him behind a journeyman QB like Taylor, for pete's sake.you're starting that shiny new toy and hoping for a good outcome.Hue wants to save his job and to do so he has to start the #1 pick in the NFL.

 
RushHour said:
I agree there’s no rush. But I’m not saying they’d be better QBs if they started right away. I guess I’m just saying we don’t know that they would have been “worse”. I’m challenging the idea that there’s some inherent benefit in letting a guy hold a clipboard for some amount of time vs playing him right away. We assume sitting for a while was good for Rodgers because he turned out to be great. It’s impossible to know whether that path played any meaningful role in making him great or, more importantly, whether playing earlier would have harmed him in some way. There’s also a difference between sitting and waiting your turn behind a HOF QB like Favre and backing up Tyrod Taylor. 

To me, Mayfield will succeed or fail based on his talent, mental makeup, resilience etc. Whether the Browns start him week one, wait 3 weeks, or 10 weeks or a whole season, is pretty irrelevant in terms of the ultimate outcome. Just my opinion. 
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Rodgers, Brady, and Brees all sat at least one year and got to observe.  Now that is only circumstantial evidence for sure, but when the top 3 passers in the league all share a common experience I tend to dismiss coincidence.  I firmly believe sitting a year does no damage to a QB and appears to be very helpful in helping the QB understand the speed/science of the pro game while not putting his confidence or ego (or body ) at risk.

.

 
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Tanner9919 said:
they're going to start him week 1.they need to drive interest to an 0-16, team.if he looks just a pinch better than Taylor, he'll start opening day. you're not drafting him #1 to sit him behind a journeyman QB like Taylor, for pete's sake.you're starting that shiny new toy and hoping for a good outcome.Hue wants to save his job and to do so he has to start the #1 pick in the NFL.
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Reminds me of the famous Bob Arum quote: "Yesterday I was lying. Today I am telling the truth."

(not you Tanner--Hue Jackson)

 
In theory I agree with the patience and year 1 bench but with the new contract it doesn’t make sense to keep rookies on the bench. You have to max out their team during their rookie contract. Once that is done they start eating a massive portion of cap space so they have to know what they have and they have to develop them fast.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
So Mayfield is inactive every week? That would make him the third stringer and mean he'd be getting very little reps in practice each week. Now that would be a very Brownsesque thing to do.
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He'd run the scout team. Stanton is the #2 to Taylor. If Taylor gets injured then Stanton remains the #2 to Baker. 

 
Having rules about when to play rookies, especially quarterbacks, sounds great. But it doesnt work. Everyone develops differently. Every situation is different. The optimal path always depends on dozens of different factors. 

 
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