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QB Bryce Young, CAR (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
You should watch the Patriots dude.
zamboni
Footballguy
To be fair, his counterpart Stroud isn't exactly playing with a bunch of Pro Bowlers. It's not all on either QB - the coaching staff and scheme are big factors - but I think it's too easy to just point to the surrounding cast.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
stroud has a much better line. better rb. definitely better WRs (nico is a stud and tank is a slot/speed/route monster).
but yes, coaching and scheme are big factors too... im not even a big fan of bryce's... never have been... but i cant judge him at all on that team
massraider
Footballguy
Confirmation bias. They need to not be wrong.
Sam Monson also played this card
I didn't read this before the season. How lucky Stroud was to have Nico and Tank Dell.
Stroud line has been hurt all year. Sanders is better than Pierce. Nico Collins was nothing before CJ got there. Tank is a 3rd round rookie.
Sort of a chicken and egg theory but I think CJ made those guys vs the other way around.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Nico was always hyped, even last season. Not mega hype, but he was/is the prototypical WR build you want... and was showing flashes of it last season as well. was a 3rd rnd pick from a top school, not a scrub.
as for Tank... agreed on most of it... but SOME of us (hint hint) were pretty big on him as a potential mini-stud in the "new" NFL...
now, of course i didnt quite expect things to this degree... stroud is CLEARLY the qb i want. he's better. end of. i just dont want to write off bryce w the team he's a member of. it just isn't fair to me (and i say the same for fields too, to a slightly lesser degree)
as for Tank... agreed on most of it... but SOME of us (hint hint) were pretty big on him as a potential mini-stud in the "new" NFL...
now, of course i didnt quite expect things to this degree... stroud is CLEARLY the qb i want. he's better. end of. i just dont want to write off bryce w the team he's a member of. it just isn't fair to me (and i say the same for fields too, to a slightly lesser degree)
dschuler
Footballguy
But stroud has Nico Collins! Nico had a combined 927 yards and 3 touchdowns in his first two seasons before Stroud arrived. We don’t know how good Mingo is because he doesn’t have a competent QB. DJ Chark was much more proven than Nico heading into this season and is no where to be found. I have no doubt Nico and Chark’s numbers would be much different if the QBs were swapped
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massraider
Footballguy
Tepper looks like a crap owner, and Reich isn't showing anything scheme-wise to show he can help.
You have to judge Young on this cast, because this is what he has, and will have for the next few years. It's a problem.
And listen, no one thought Houston was a great organization. Stroud is raising the level of everyone.
You have to judge Young on this cast, because this is what he has, and will have for the next few years. It's a problem.
And listen, no one thought Houston was a great organization. Stroud is raising the level of everyone.
karl.Racki
Footballguy
Houston added FA like Schultz, who were somewhat productive in Dallas, same with Noah Brown. They also drafted Dell..
For Young they added Adam Thielen, who has been ok, but is on the downside of his career.
So funny people want to dump Young after 10 games, but still want to continue to give a bum like Justin Fields more time.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Fields has had dynamic games
What are you hanging your hat on with Bryce? He’s short so the lanes seem compressed, he’s small so he can’t exactly take a pounding, the coaching looks like it can’t adjust and get any of these guys open. Fields show the abilitiy to win games by himself. I’m not saying he’s the be all end but young has a ways to go to hit his limited ceiling
karl.Racki
Footballguy
Fields has had a few dynamic games, but he will be going into his 4th season.. Let give Young at least another year and see before he drum him a bust. The guy has literally played what 9 games?
massraider
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Yes, that's what happens when owners meddle.
I'm still waiting for the stories coming out of the Jets camp. We will hear them eventually.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
You hate to see it.
dschuler
Footballguy
Rookies drafted into best situations
This was in the off season. The NFL Gameday made a list of NFL rookies drafted into the best situations of all positions (surrounding talent, team, coach, etc). Bryce Young was #1, CJ Stroud wasn’t even ranked.
This was in the off season. The NFL Gameday made a list of NFL rookies drafted into the best situations of all positions (surrounding talent, team, coach, etc). Bryce Young was #1, CJ Stroud wasn’t even ranked.
Yep, its revisionist history to say otherwise. The team added a good RB, had a very good OLine and defense and finished 7-10 last year. Meanwhile the Texans finished 3-13-1. Now all of a sudden Houston has a lot more talent for CJ to work with than Bryce? I call BS here.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
There is no choice but to give him another year. I'm not arguing against that, I'm just saying he has a world to go before reaching the low standards of Fields.
Fields may be too injury prone, he's not a great passer and I will give young that, I do think he's got some foundational QB skills in terms of vision, anticipation and footwork. But he also has limitations that will be very hard to overcome.
He really probably needs a little more Kyler in his game to open up some lanes for him.
massraider
Footballguy
Someone trying to lay the opinion that the Houston freaking Texans was a really sweet landing spot compared to poor Bryce might be the most egregious revisionist history I can remember.
Yeah, it’s pretty funny when folks act like CJ has a lot of talent around him and hasn’t been playing with 3rd string linemen the majority of the season.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Someone trying to lay the opinion that the Houston freaking Texans was a really sweet landing spot compared to poor Bryce might be the most egregious revisionist history I can remember.
When I speak, it's because I can back it up.
My Summer Thoughts on the Texans
So yes, it was a great landing spot. Only suckers thought the Texans were a bad team.
I don't see why "Bryce Young is still a good prospect" and "CJ Stroud clearly looks like a better player" can't both be true.
I will say, I thought the Texans (and Colts) were a better landing spot than Carolina, simply because those teams didn't have to mortgage their future to trade up for their guy like Carolina did.
But I will agree at the moment, Young has shown the least, not just behind Stroud, but arguably behind Richardson and Levis too. But I haven't seen enough to say that all 4 can't be solid starting QBs.
I will say, I thought the Texans (and Colts) were a better landing spot than Carolina, simply because those teams didn't have to mortgage their future to trade up for their guy like Carolina did.
But I will agree at the moment, Young has shown the least, not just behind Stroud, but arguably behind Richardson and Levis too. But I haven't seen enough to say that all 4 can't be solid starting QBs.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
It is too early to pass final judgement on Young. He needs at least this season and probably half of next season before he can truly be evaluated. That being said, he doesn’t look good and may not look as good as Stroud already does.
I’m not much of a fan of Young and in March I wrote in the Stroud thread that passing accuracy matters, and Stroud would be the first QB drafted. Seemed obvious that Stroud was going to do well in the NFL. Many posters were much higher on Young than Stroud in the Stroud thread. That could still end up being true but right now those comments are embarrassing. Young is still tiny and looks overwhelmed.
Did your analysis have them playing with backup lineman all year, with a non existent running game?Someone trying to lay the opinion that the Houston freaking Texans was a really sweet landing spot compared to poor Bryce might be the most egregious revisionist history I can remember.
When I speak, it's because I can back it up.
My Summer Thoughts on the Texans
So yes, it was a great landing spot. Only suckers thought the Texans were a bad team.
Balco
Footballguy
I think his absolute ceiling is Jared Goff (not a poor man’s Jared Goff) which is very good. And I don’t think he is remotely close to Johnny Manziel.
I think that's Jordan LoveLooking like the Clyde Edwards of QB’s
He was outplayed by Tyson Bagent last night. That tells you all you need to know.I think that's Jordan LoveLooking like the Clyde Edwards of QB’s
He is shaping up to be a massive bust.
I don't think that's accurate. The Bears outplayed the Panthers, if Young was the Bears QB and Bagent was the Panthers, the Bears would have won by double digits. I think we are learning more about Frank Reich and the Panthers coaching staff than we are about Young.He was outplayed by Tyson Bagent last night. That tells you all you need to know.I think that's Jordan LoveLooking like the Clyde Edwards of QB’s
He is shaping up to be a massive bust.
I'm certainly nowhere near ready to call it on a #1 overall pick. Young is playing better as a rookie than Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Matthew Stafford, and Jared Goff all did, and has been about equal to Trevor Lawrence.
I think this is a relatively normal rookie QB season, and people are overreacting, because CJ Stroud is having a very abnormal rookie QB season. I don't think Young is bad, I do think Stroud is very good.
Young looks overmatched, not able to process and deliver like he did in college. Often looks confused and lacks 2nd and 3rd read reaction time. He’s 5’10” and struggles to see, even in a clean pocket. Does not slide and evade like he did at Alabama.I don't think that's accurate. The Bears outplayed the Panthers, if Young was the Bears QB and Bagent was the Panthers, the Bears would have won by double digits. I think we are learning more about Frank Reich and the Panthers coaching staff than we are about Young.He was outplayed by Tyson Bagent last night. That tells you all you need to know.I think that's Jordan LoveLooking like the Clyde Edwards of QB’s
He is shaping up to be a massive bust.
I'm certainly nowhere near ready to call it on a #1 overall pick. Young is playing better as a rookie than Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Matthew Stafford, and Jared Goff all did, and has been about equal to Trevor Lawrence.
I think this is a relatively normal rookie QB season, and people are overreacting, because CJ Stroud is having a very abnormal rookie QB season. I don't think Young is bad, I do think Stroud is very good.
To add context, his receivers do not separate at all. Mingo looks slow and doesn’t run great routes. Theilen is short area only. Line play has been poor. No TE of note.
It’s not all on young but he is clearly not as advertised- at all. Don’t feel he is anything other than an average NFL starter, at best. Granted, he’s half a season in, but my eyeballs tell me he’s not trending upwards.
I’m no scout but have watched a lot of football. He doesn’t look even remotely like a number #1 overall pick. What is most scary is that he looks essentially the same from week 1 to week 9. Haven’t seen any meaningful improvement, and that’s scary.
karl.Racki
Footballguy
#1 pick should be Harrison Jr
I don't know if I'd go that far, WRs can only affect a game so much compared to a QB, look no further than Calvin Johnson's career. Having said that, you probably have to go back to Calvin for a WR prospect as good as Harrison.
karl.Racki
Footballguy
The best 2 players in college football right now are. Marvin Harrison and Jayden Daniels.
Jayden Daniels gives me Lamar Jackson vibes.
Jayden Daniels gives me Lamar Jackson vibes.
GregR
Footballguy
On the Houston side of supporting cast discussion... yes, Houston was widely regarded as one of the worst rosters in the league and picked to finish dead last. The receiver group was frequently listed dead last. They brought in players like Robert Woods who isn't a WR1, and Noah Brown who had 75 catches and 800 yards in 5 seasons. Schultz was definitely the big obvious upgrade, and then whatever Tank Dell might do as a rookie.
It's also true that the receivers themselves are playing better than expected. Nico is running better routes, Tank is living up to the loftiest expectations for him as a rookie. Both of them rank highly in some of the advanced metrics analyses. And Noah Brown the last two games seems to have come out of almost nowhere. So they were overlooked as a unit, that's also true, but it was very valid to see them that way.
Stroud is also elevating the receiving corp. He's getting the ball into small windows, throwing with anticipation, and has a great medium and deep ball. A big body like Nico can flourish when the ball is there already the moment he breaks.
The coaching is also a big part of it. The offensive system is working well. Demeco Ryans as head coach has turned pretty much the entire team around. While I have heard some grousing about Slowik, overall I think he's called good games. And the job the staff did with the offensive line was amazing.
So it's kind of a situation of yes, everyone's a bit right. Houston was rarely regarded as a better landing spot. But it has turned out to be, even after discounting for the part Stroud played in that elevation. I think if you swap them Houston would still turn out this season to be the better landing spot. But I also don't think Young does anywhere close to what Stroud is doing.
It's also true that the receivers themselves are playing better than expected. Nico is running better routes, Tank is living up to the loftiest expectations for him as a rookie. Both of them rank highly in some of the advanced metrics analyses. And Noah Brown the last two games seems to have come out of almost nowhere. So they were overlooked as a unit, that's also true, but it was very valid to see them that way.
Stroud is also elevating the receiving corp. He's getting the ball into small windows, throwing with anticipation, and has a great medium and deep ball. A big body like Nico can flourish when the ball is there already the moment he breaks.
The coaching is also a big part of it. The offensive system is working well. Demeco Ryans as head coach has turned pretty much the entire team around. While I have heard some grousing about Slowik, overall I think he's called good games. And the job the staff did with the offensive line was amazing.
So it's kind of a situation of yes, everyone's a bit right. Houston was rarely regarded as a better landing spot. But it has turned out to be, even after discounting for the part Stroud played in that elevation. I think if you swap them Houston would still turn out this season to be the better landing spot. But I also don't think Young does anywhere close to what Stroud is doing.
massraider
Footballguy
In dynasty, what would you give for Bryce Young right now? I play 1QB, but 2QB as well.
He's on the block in two of my leagues, which is an indictment by itself. I have roster space, I have assets, I am just trying to work up some enthusiasm.
He's on the block in two of my leagues, which is an indictment by itself. I have roster space, I have assets, I am just trying to work up some enthusiasm.
eighsse2
Footballguy
I have him in 1QB dynasty. I would not really need to get a lot in return for him. Late second round pick? I mean, I picked him at #19 overall, and clearly his value should have plummeted from where it was. Not giving up on the guy, but I'd be fine to re-roll with a late second.
Faust
MVP
Adam Schefter
By firing Frank Reich, the Panthers believe they are trying to help Bryce Young. A reminder of what they gave up to get him:
Bears receive:
WR DJ Moore
Panthers receive:
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Taking into account the recency bias and hype; most places have him as a top 3 dynasty QB moving forward, behind only Mahomes and Hurts. I don't see how anyone can put him further down than 6 behind also Allen, Lamar, and Herbert (though I wouldn't myself). Only non-QB I'd think maybe is ahead of him is JJ. I'd say he's almost unmovable in SF due to what he's shown so far, his age, and his situation with Nico and Dell both being young as well. If I were in a SF dynasty start up, I'd have him on my board as 1.01.
In non SF, I'd have him as a mid to late 2nd start up value at the latest. I'd say there are definitely 6 WRs, 4 RBs, and 1QB ahead of him, then I'd be considering taking him. He'd be bunched with Wilson, Olave, Taylor, Josh Allen, etc. for me. A tier above Waddle, Devonta, Addison, LaPorta, Aiyuk, etc.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
You’re confusing this with the Stroud thread.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Poop. My bad. This is what I get for avoiding work today.
I didn't see anyone open all day really. Here n there but it was odd because my Titans are not a top secondary.
I was ready to be critical of him but always stuck at "and throw to who?" or their line taking a play off.
I think I'd ask Caldwell if he should sit the rest of the year if I were the new guy.
It's maybe the third Panthers game I've seen and the announcers are always talking of him and cameras on him and I don't see anything to give up on the guy at all. There's so much "not his fault" going around badly on offense. I guess you could blame his leadership. Get on the WRs and linemen?
I'm ready to be wrong here, send me links, but I really don't see much right with that team
I was ready to be critical of him but always stuck at "and throw to who?" or their line taking a play off.
I think I'd ask Caldwell if he should sit the rest of the year if I were the new guy.
It's maybe the third Panthers game I've seen and the announcers are always talking of him and cameras on him and I don't see anything to give up on the guy at all. There's so much "not his fault" going around badly on offense. I guess you could blame his leadership. Get on the WRs and linemen?
I'm ready to be wrong here, send me links, but I really don't see much right with that team
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