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RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (1 Viewer)

irish eyes said:
If he sits until week 10, there is no way they should pay him what is left at that point. He will be useless & I doubt really giving a sh@@ or giving effort at that point. Not sure why anyone would want him back at that stage, makes zero sense.
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Once he signs the tender, they have to pay him.  If they rescind the tag, he’s a FA immediately.  That will sure show him.

 
I don't really have a side here.   I see both points as far as real football.  Fantasy football wise, man I'm glad I didn't draft him.   Picked 3rd in a redraft on Sunday-took Zeke, but was a whisker away from picking Bell.  Sorry for those that have him on their team.

 
Interesting, Steelers still moving around money and freeing up over $5M in cap space for this season.  Restructured Cam Heywards deal.

 
Bayhawks said:
My post was in response to another poster that said Bell should "do the right thing," and "be honorable."  It goes both ways.  If that poster wants Bell to "do the right thing" and "be honorable," why shouldn't the Steelers be held to the same expectations?  They got top-5 RB production for 4 years for less than $1M/year.  Even if you figure he "only" deserved $5M/year for that production, they got $16M extra value out of him.  The "honorable," "right thing" to do would have been to have offered him $16M MORE than what they actually valued him at.  But no one expects them to do that. 

I don't think we should be demanding honor and nobility from the players if we dont' expect the same from the teams.
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Of course the counter-argument is, the key to effective cap management is to pay for future performance, not past performance.  Hard to fault the Steelers for being responsible and opting not to pay big $$$ for Bell's decline years.  Albert Pujols and the Cardinals come immediately to mind here.  Pujols is now generally regarded as the worst contract in MLB.

Honestly neither side is in the wrong here IMO.

 
Seems to be a lot of hurt Steelers fans believing that Bell owes them and the team something. Always quick to turn on a player. He is not under contract. He owes you and the team nothing at this point. 

 
I know the majority of these guys spend all their $ and end up broke but tossing away $15 million that you are never getting back and losing a year of playing time seems like a bad idea, especially for a RB. It's not like missing a year is going to mean he gets another year later on at 33 years old. War & tear doesn't matter on a RB over 30. Teams simply look at the age. He simply loses $15 million and a year of football. saving 1/4 of that, what would he have in 10 years?

 
Dan Lambskin said:
My guess is he’ll hold out, sign a big deal with a trash team like the Jets, struggle, and be out of the league in 3 years, but at least he’ll have gotten paid 
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And maybe that's all he's in it for.  Didn't realize he lead the league in carries last year (321) by so much (#2 had 287) - while also leading the league in receptions as a RB (85, when only 5 guys topped 60).  The year before he had 261 carries, and 75 receptions....while missing 4 games - prorates out to 348 carries and 100 catches, then had another 65 carries in the playoffs.

He knows if he plays another full 16+ game season (possibly 19 games), he could be looking at another ~400 touches.  What's his value, after a 3 season stretch of 1,200+ touches?

 
Forgive my ignorance, but do the Steelers still have the ability to rescind the tag or are we passed that point?

 
matttyl said:
Thinking about this, are there really?  I see a handful of teams who would be in it for his services.  Buffalo if they part ways with McCoy, Texas if they cut Miller and Foreman isn't their guy, Raiders if Lynch is done, Jets, maybe Bucs if Ronald Jones continues to flop, Colts, maybe Baltimore?  How many teams have the need, paired with the cap space?
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Well he doesn't have anything to prove in the "body of work" category, so if he was in it for a payday, what could hurt that the most? Getting injured or a perception of massive over usage the past 3 years. You know if he survived another 400+ touch year 3 years in a row all the historians would be putting out the red flags saying he is very risky FA pickup. This would hurt his negotiation power, but if he was coming of a 100-150 touch year, he would be sure to let everyone know he is fresh and still capable with his body of work already on film.

ETA: By not playing he mitigates both the risk of injury and the perception of overuse. Nobody is going to think his skills would diminish from his body of work at his age next year. Maybe if he was McCoy's age.

 
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ffweasel said:
Seems to be a lot of hurt Steelers fans believing that Bell owes them and the team something. Always quick to turn on a player. He is not under contract. He owes you and the team nothing at this point. 
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I dunno I think most of us here are saying that Bell should do what he thinks is in his best interest.   I am not sure that not telling the team when you plan on reporting helps him achieve his goal but he is certainly free to do that if he wants.

My take as a Steelers fan is I wish the two would have been able to negotiate a long term deal but not at the $17+ Bell was reportedly asking for.  I was hoping that Bell would live up to his word about not holding out but that is his call and certainly the Steelers knew it was a possibility.

 
Steeler said:
Do the right thing and tell the Steelers when he will report - seems like a pretty straight forward thing to expect at this point.  Keeping the team in limbo because they couldn't agree on a long term contract extension makes him look petty to me.  I understand the business decision of holding out until week 10, I don't understand hiding that decision.  But we can agree to disagree.
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The premise that the team is "in limbo" seems faulty.

Prepare as if he isn't playing until he is playing.  Seems straightforward.  And teams deal with this sort of uncertainty all the time due to injuries.

 
mnmplayer said:
Well he doesn't have anything to prove in the "body of work" category, so if he was in it for a payday, what could hurt that the most? Getting injured or a perception of massive over usage the past 3 years. You know if he survived another 400+ touch year 3 years in a row all the historians would be putting out the red flags saying he is very risky FA pickup. This would hurt his negotiation power, but if he was coming of a 100-150 touch year, he would be sure to let everyone know he is fresh and still capable with his body of work already on film. 
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Said as much 3 posts up.  I can definitely see his side here.

 
I agree with Bell. Guy touches the ball a lot, could all be over for him on one play. He's one of the 3 best in the world at what he does and wants a guarantee that he will be taken care. 

It's all about the money, any of you guys go to work for free?

 
mnmplayer said:
Well he doesn't have anything to prove in the "body of work" category, so if he was in it for a payday, what could hurt that the most? Getting injured or a perception of massive over usage the past 3 years. You know if he survived another 400+ touch year 3 years in a row all the historians would be putting out the red flags saying he is very risky FA pickup. This would hurt his negotiation power, but if he was coming of a 100-150 touch year, he would be sure to let everyone know he is fresh and still capable with his body of work already on film. 
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Honestly the more I read this, I think the overuse thing is an even bigger concern for Bell than the risk of injury.  You're exactly right about the mileage being a big issue for prospective teams.

 
matttyl said:
And maybe that's all he's in it for.  Didn't realize he lead the league in carries last year (321) by so much (#2 had 287) - while also leading the league in receptions as a RB (85, when only 5 guys topped 60).  The year before he had 261 carries, and 75 receptions....while missing 4 games - prorates out to 348 carries and 100 catches, then had another 65 carries in the playoffs.

He knows if he plays another full 16+ game season (possibly 19 games), he could be looking at another ~400 touches.  What's his value, after a 3 season stretch of 1,200+ touches?
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Yeah I get that he’s doing what he thinks is best for him, but I think he’s going to be disappointed in what the market ends up being for his services, and it’s obvious he cares more about getting paid than winning, which again, I’m fine with

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I agree with Bell. Guy touches the ball a lot, could all be over for him on one play. He's one of the 3 best in the world at what he does and wants a guarantee that he will be taken care. 

It's all about the money, any of you guys go to work for free?
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Where's this work for free stuff coming from?

 
I see people arguing "Steelers screwed him" and "Steelers were just making a rational business decision" as if they're mutually exclusive. Both can be (and are) true. And so can the reverse. I think the only real question is whether Bell might be screwing himself by sitting out. On the surface, I don't think so, but given the reactionary nature of NFL front offices maybe they'll Kaepernick him ("bust a Kaep"?) for having the audacity to push the limits of the CBA.

 
If he wanted to get a long term guarantee, he shouldn't have had the suspension and injury issues he's had.  Amazing talent, but he's not worth committing massive amounts of guaranteed money to, long term.  I hope the Steelers don't cave and just roll with what they have. 

If Bell's goal is to get top dollar, it won't come from the Steelers because of the risk he represents, not because of a lack of talent.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
What happens if he gets hurt? How much does he lose out on in that case?
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It depends on when he gets hurt.   If he gets hurt now walking to his mailbox he loses out on $14.5 million.  If he reports and gets hurt early in the season then he'll likely not lose much on next years deal.   If he reports week 11 and gets hurt then he is out $9 million and likely lose more than on his next year's deal.   It is all a crap shoot

 
You guys are looking at 2018 as a standalone. A RB gets one contract out of college, if they're a stud, they'll see one big payday afterwards. He hasn't secured his and his workload has been massive. 

Can't imagine anyone without some dumb fantasy interest seeing otherwise.

 
It's too much to respectfully ask the Steelers fans in attendance of this thread to sit this one out, isn't it.

 
brewer said:
Bell is well within his rights to hold out, but if you think 14.5M is free, you have a different definition of free than I do.
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Thing is, with the franchise tag he has zero security for future years, right?

So say he goes out and tears his ACL in like week 12, he now has no team, may not be ready for the start of 2019, and will have to play for MUCH less money.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I've learned just how much leverage teams have vs players in the NFL.

 
Dan Lambskin said:
My guess is he’ll hold out, sign a big deal with a trash team like the Jets, struggle, and be out of the league in 3 years, but at least he’ll have gotten paid 
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That's what I was thinking. I'm sure he'll sign with one of the bottom dwellers and do nothing. That's why those kind of teams suck every year.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
You guys are looking at 2018 as a standalone. A RB gets one contract out of college, if they're a stud, they'll see one big payday afterwards. He hasn't secured his and his workload has been massive. 

Can't imagine anyone without some dumb fantasy interest seeing otherwise.
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He screwed himself to a certain degree with the two drug suspensions but the Steelers were trying negotiating a long term deal.  It didn't work out and Bell was by far the highest paid RB last season at more than $12 million.   They tried again to work out a deal but couldn't and Bell can get another $14.5 million by signing this year.   That is $26.5 million in 2 years -- a sum he most likely would not have gotten had he signed a long term deal - plus the opportunity to sign another huge contract next season.   

 
brewer said:
I'll help too, he already turned that down from the Steelers.
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There was supposedly only somewhere around $28-$33 guaranteed there.

I understand that is a lot of money, but he wanted more. At the end of the day, the NFL players have the least leverage in any league and worst contracts... Guy wants to be taken care, who are we to judge? 

We'll see how it works out for him.

 
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The steelers were planning on using him up and discarding him, making his value much less after another 400 touch season. he knows it. That's the problem. No chance in hell they use him up and then give him big $ or they would have done it this year. They were gonna run him into the ground.

They did the same to Barry Foster but he saved all his $ back in the 90s and retired early. I know cause I owned him too.

 
Skoo said:
Thing is, with the franchise tag he has zero security for future years, right?

So say he goes out and tears his ACL in like week 12, he now has no team, may not be ready for the start of 2019, and will have to play for MUCH less money.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I've learned just how much leverage teams have vs players in the NFL.
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Sure but he has to report some time this season or he is back right where he is now and when he does he risks being injured and NOT getting all of the $14.5 million guaranteed for this season.

 
lod001 said:
The steelers were planning on using him up and discarding him, making his value much less after another 400 touch season. he knows it. That's the problem. No chance in hell they use him up and then give him big $ or they would have done it this year. They were gonna run him into the ground.

They did the same to Barry Foster but he saved all his $ back in the 90s and retired early. I know cause I owned him too.
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Barry Foster only had one season where he had an excessive amount of carries 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
There was supposedly only somewhere around $28-$33 guaranteed there.
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Again, Bell is well within his rights to sit, skip the first 10 games, whatever.  But, whatever he ends up getting, just remember to subtract whatever he gives back this year by not playing.... and I bet he would have been financially better off accepting the 70M 5 year deal from the Steelers.

 
brewer said:
Don't know, but he loses out on 14.5M by not playing this year.
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He will play/report wk10 or 11 or whatever is required to get another year of play under his belt, and I assume he will take in 6.34M for playing 7 games, and non of it is guaranteed money (as per my understanding) so the only thing that is guaranteed is the money he takes home after each game. He is probably hoping for a huge contract with 40+ million guaranteed. The risk is about 8 mil over the next 10 weeks to gain whatever amount he thinks he can get guaranteed.

 
hagmania said:
It's too much to respectfully ask the Steelers fans in attendance of this thread to sit this one out, isn't it.
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Yup. And we all wish he'd show up this week. The worst part is the not knowing, if he announced today that he's skipping the first 10 games, that would actually make me feel better, and he gains nothing by keeping the team and fans in limbo, there's no negotiation to be had at this point. The limbo is just making most of the fans angrier and angrier (even though they shouldn't be). 

To the people who say the Steelers were trying to screw him, or disrespect him, they offered him a contract that at the time was far and away the biggest contract for a running back. It ended up being smaller than Gurley's, but Gurley is younger and has 0 off the field concerns. His contract wasn't as big as WRs, DTs, or QBs, but the running back market is different, just like the safety market this offseason. It's within his rights to try and reset that market, or set a new high water mark, but most teams won't try to be the ones setting that high mark. If they are, there's a reason they can probably afford to and it's not because they're too good.

It's the man's living and he has a right to conduct himself however he wants, especially when he's not under contract, but we're fans. Logic doesn't always make it through the haze of team loyalty. 

 
Godsbrother said:
Barry Foster only had one season where he had an excessive amount of carries 
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Cause he got hurt the next year. Exactly what Bell is concerned about.

Then he got hurt again the following year and PITT said, see ya. we ain't payin ya.

 
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Bayhawks said:
Once he signs the tender, they have to pay him.  If they rescind the tag, he’s a FA immediately.  That will sure show him.
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If it gets to week 9 I rescind it. If he has gone that long you know he is going until week 10 then he loses 14.5 million. Who cares if he is free agent at point. He isn't going to do anything worthwhile for any team at that point anyway.

 
irish eyes said:
If it gets to week 9 I rescind it. If he has gone that long you know he is going until week 10 then he loses 14.5 million. Who cares if he is free agent at point. He isn't going to do anything worthwhile for any team at that point anyway.
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That is my concern.  The way his agent is talking I am not sure what kind of effort you will get from Bell once he does report.  

 
Godsbrother said:
Yes I believe that they could but it is extremely unlikely they would outbid other NFL teams.
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Yeah but I would think that the Steelers and Bell's agent would come to some sort of agreement BEFORE the Steelers would be willing to rescind the tag.

So basically all this talk about the Steelers not being able to do anything other than follow through on the franchise tag is false.  There is a path where Bell could still get his long term deal done.

 
irish eyes said:
If it gets to week 9 I rescind it. If he has gone that long you know he is going until week 10 then he loses 14.5 million. Who cares if he is free agent at point. He isn't going to do anything worthwhile for any team at that point anyway.
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If they rescind it at any point, he wins.  He wants to be a FA & “re-set” the RB market.

All rescinding the tag will do is set the precedent that this kind of “hold out” gives the players more power/leverage.  If you’d do that because you want to spite him, that’s be dumb.

 
Godsbrother said:
Yes but you and I know there is less than 1% chance of that happening.
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And so do the steelers. If he holds out, in order to get something for him, their only option at this point is to work a trade and let him sign the franchise tag and then make the trade. If he comes back after 10 weeks, he will have a mysterious minor injury and magically be ready to go in February and they get nothing.

 
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