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RB Phillip Lindsay, IND (1 Viewer)

Got him in 3 FPC leagues for 27% - 37% (my bids dependent on my need)

Got him in 1 RTsports Fantasy Championship league for 27% (this was my lowest bid for leagues in this contest, winning bids in other leagues were ~55%)
Unfortunately I didn't get him in the league I needed him the most (really liked this team after the draft in June; Bell, D Freeman, McCoy, Greg Olsen)

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Danny Woodhead had a top 10 season in ppr and was very valuable when healthy.
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Absolutely...if he can turn into a more consistent Danny Woodhead I would be beyond thrilled...I see guys look down at that type of player and I just don't understand that arrogance...it's as if these players are beneath them because these owners have the magic 8 ball and always know who the next Kamara or Bell is...come around week 12 when the injuries are piling up having a player like Woodhead in 2013 or 2015 can be the difference between winning a championship and not making the playoffs...

 
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Got him with the 67% bid in my dynasty league. More than anyone spent in the six year history of the league I think but like others have said usually players that have an in game performance like that are already rostered.

 
I threw $1 at him not knowing much about his situation.  Clearly the rest of my league knew less as I got him for said dollar.  Seems like a worthwhile stash for now

 
I threw $1 at him not knowing much about his situation.  Clearly the rest of my league knew less as I got him for said dollar.  Seems like a worthwhile stash for now

 
Arodin said:
There’s a regulation I’m unfamiliar with!

How can the government mandate signing Trumps while turning a blind eye to Kaepernick?  An outrage, I tell you!
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LOL --- this happened in a post in another thread where that string got pasted, and I edited when I realized it. I am baffled as I wasn't copying anything related to Trump, nor (at the extreme risk of introducing politics) do I think he deserves the moniker "President" even though it's technically correct -- but that's something for the FFA. So have no idea how that got in there.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
LOL --- this happened in a post in another thread where that string got pasted, and I edited when I realized it. I am baffled as I wasn't copying anything related to Trump, nor (at the extreme risk of introducing politics) do I think he deserves the moniker "President" even though it's technically correct -- but that's something for the FFA. So have no idea how that got in there.
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The funny thing is that I completely understood what you meant by it. :lol:  

i just assumed you meant old lame players who don’t really belong where they are.  :shrug:

 
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I'll go out on a limb and say I believe he will work into a similar role as Chris Thompson Wash. Both are the same approximate size.

Denver throws ~26% to rbs, I feel PL will take about 50- 65% ( would have gone to Booker) of those in addition to 4-6 carries per game.

I like the flex appeal, looking like a possible rb3 with rb2 upside weekly in ppr.

 
He’s little.

Not much else you can knock him for, because he does everything well. Super quick, has EV instant torque when he goes from pariently reading to burst. Good receiver & good in pass pro. Does a really nice job keeping his pads square, can slither through a crease or juke in bigger holes, good speed to the edge, compact frame that powers through arm tackles. Looks bigger than his listed weight. Don’t know his 40 time but he has tremendous football speed on the field.

He’s little. Guys his size are always fighting the perception he won’t hold up, barring multiple injuries he’s probably never gonna be more than a CoP back. Lot of Sproles in this guy, he’s gonna be around for a long time if he stays healthy.

 
BobbyLayne said:
He’s little.

Not much else you can knock him for, because he does everything well. Super quick, has EV instant torque when he goes from pariently reading to burst. Good receiver & good in pass pro. Does a really nice job keeping his pads square, can slither through a crease or juke in bigger holes, good speed to the edge, compact frame that powers through arm tackles. Looks bigger than his listed weight. Don’t know his 40 time but he has tremendous football speed on the field.

He’s little. Guys his size are always fighting the perception he won’t hold up, barring multiple injuries he’s probably never gonna be more than a CoP back. Lot of Sproles in this guy, he’s gonna be around for a long time if he stays healthy.
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The health/size caveats are the only knocks I can see.

and if Denver insists on letting him tote the rock 15 times a game, that may well be his undoing as little guys rarely hold up doing that - as evidenced by Sproles, Woodhead, etc. 

ideally if I were an owner I’d like to see 4-6 carries and 4-8 targets per game. A guy built like Lindsay with his quicks can potentially do an awful lot with those 8-14 touches.

this week against the Raiders I’m still expecting the dynamic to favor Freeman. 

But hey, I could be way off. I just assume he’s the ideal fit for a suddenly toothless Oakland run defense that’s playing on a short week on the road, at altitude, having lost their best run stopper. 

But ya never know. That same defense might cough up a long screen or stretch play to Lindsay.

after week 1 he shouldn’t surprise any defensive coordinators though. But then, this is the Raiders so anything is possible. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
and if Denver insists on letting him tote the rock 15 times a game, that may well be his undoing as little guys rarely hold up doing that - as evidenced by Sproles, Woodhead, etc. 
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When did Sproles or Woodhead breakdown because they couldn’t hold up for 15 carries a game? They were never used that way and I don’t think Sproles ever dealt with many injuries to be honest.

Woodhead didn’t really either until he past 30 and some of his injuries were more flukey like a broken leg.

Bottom line is that little backs and big backs get hurt just as often - it’s a violent sport and a violent position.

i think smaller backs do not see heavy workloads more because they aren’t as effective later in the game and aren’t as effective wearing down a defense.

Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, MJD, Tiki Barber, Brian Westbrook, Warrick Dunn (and others I’m missing) were all under 205 pounds and survived many seasons seeing 15+ carries plus receptions per game. 

Now is Linday on that level? Most likely not but let’s not pretend it’s not possible for smaller backs to be bellcow backs.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
When did Sproles or Woodhead breakdown because they couldn’t hold up for 15 carries a game? They were never used that way and I don’t think Sproles ever dealt with many injuries to be honest.

Woodhead didn’t really either until he past 30 and some of his injuries were more flukey like a broken leg.

Bottom line is that little backs and big backs get hurt just as often - it’s a violent sport and a violent position.

i think smaller backs do not see heavy workloads more because they aren’t as effective later in the game and aren’t as effective wearing down a defense.

Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, MJD, Tiki Barber, Brian Westbrook, Warrick Dunn (and others I’m missing) were all under 205 pounds and survived many seasons seeing 15+ carries plus receptions per game. 

Now is Linday on that level? Most likely not but let’s not pretend it’s not possible for smaller backs to be bellcow backs.
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It’s possible, sure.

But he got 15 carries - which as you admit is unusual.

also; there’s a huge difference between backs under 205, and a dude who’s 5’8”, 185 lbs.

that ~20 lbs is a massive difference & durability is usually the knock.

time will tell I guess. If Denver is smart, 15 carries will be an outlier. 

 
Such a great discussion so far, love this kind of conjecture on a little-known player early season. No matter what happens, this thread to be a guaranteed ####-show after this weekend.

  • Scenario 1: Lindsay repeats a similar performance, splitting meaningful down/distance carries through the game and fueling truthers to crow and engendering more reactive (and worried) defending of Freeman as "still being the guy" but game flow didn't go their way
  • Scenario 2: Lindsay completely blows, gets stuffed, fumbles, can't catch, or isn't utilized, and the opposite occurs -- fueling Freeman owners to beat their chests about staying true to a talented rookie who is developing into exactly who they want him to be as an RB2, and relegating Lindsay to a one-game wonder and a gadget back
  • Scenario 3: A repeat of last week where both players flashed, fueling another 6 pages of rinse and repeat of the discussion we're having.
With all honesty and without any sarcasm, this is EXACTLY why I love fantasy. Can't wait to see what this week brings.

:popcorn:

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
It’s possible, sure.

But he got 15 carries - which as you admit is unusual.

also; there’s a huge difference between backs under 205, and a dude who’s 5’8”, 185 lbs.

that ~20 lbs is a massive difference & durability is usually the knock.

time will tell I guess. If Denver is smart, 15 carries will be an outlier. 
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I think he's listed at 190 - but admittedly that's not much difference, however I said under 205, not 205. Ray Rice played many seasons under 200 as did Chris Johnson. Westbrook played at 200. Dunn at 180.

It is unusual for smaller backs to be bellcows for many reasons - one of which is perception. A guy doesn't "look the part" and coaches are afraid to look dumb - which is also why QBs like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson were under-drafted. A coach/GM needs to see something special to break the mold.

Now Chris Johnson had elite level speed - Rice had elite level vision and his hips were on a swivel - Westbrook was an elite pass catcher - etc. etc.

Lindsay looks to have elite level lateral agility - and he ran hard and pushed piles for a small back.

The main point however is none of these small backs couldn't handle 15 carries a game so saying Lindsay can't is not accurate - yet. Denver wouldn't be dumb to give him 15 carries a game if he was the next Ray Rice - they'd be smart to overlook his "handicap", his size enough to give him that chance.

I'm not ready to crown him as "Ray Rice" or "Chris Johnson" yet of course. But what we do know is he was extremely productive in college, impressed the coaches enough in preseason that he split carries with the RB drafted highly, and that he looked like the best RB on the field for either team.

Let's see him do it again - or not.

 
While I do agree that he’s likely too small to really carry the load, the argument that 15 carries is his max / outlier kind of contradicts most situations involving a rookie back.

Perhaps they were testing his limits but usually teams break in their rookie / unproven guys by giving them limited carries and slowly ramping them up. Now I don’t think that’s really the case here with Lindsay as he did get 15 carries, but I find it hard to believe the coaches went into week 1 with plans of giving him his max rushing attempts in his first NFL game. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get 12-15 rushes on average over the 6-10 that’s being predicted by the community. 

Another encouraging thing I saw on tape was that it appeared Lindsay was Keenum’s first read on plays where he ran routes. 

 
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Hard to gather too much off of just a few games. Think they play Oakland next right. Should be more a game of solid defense and basic plays on offense. Wouldn’t shock me none to see Freeman get 25+ carries   Unless Gruden forces their hand for the QB to beat em. Denver should play like a champion to be the champions. TTD may only see five touch’s 

 
hamsterdam said:
While I do agree that’s he’s likely too small to really carry the load, the argument that 15 carries is his max / outlier kind of contradicts most situations involving a rookie back.

Perhaps they were testing his limits but usually teams break in their rookie / unproven guys by giving them limited carries and slowly ramping them up. Now I don’t think that’s really the case here with Lindsay as he did get 15 carries, but I find it hard to believe the coaches went into week 1 with plans of giving him his max rushing attempts in his first NFL game. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get 12-15 rushes on average over the 6-10 that’s being predicted by the community. 
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A well-reasoned post.

Another encouraging thing I saw on tape was 
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VHS or Betamax? :P  

 
Probably more a chance Colorado gets to see their boy put up 200 yds or something  But hey it is any given Sunday

 
Dismattle said:
Hard to gather too much off of just a few games. Think they play Oakland next right. Should be more a game of solid defense and basic plays on offense. Wouldn’t shock me none to see Freeman get 25+ carries   Unless Gruden forces their hand for the QB to beat em. Denver should play like a champion to be the champions. TTD may only see five touch’s 
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What does this have to do with the Lindsay/Freeman split? Lindsay wasn't getting gadget touches; he was just as involved in the "basic plays" as Freeman was. 

 
Concept Coop said:
What does this have to do with the Lindsay/Freeman split? Lindsay wasn't getting gadget touches; he was just as involved in the "basic plays" as Freeman was. 
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Could not agree more...I think that is what caught everyone by surprise...Lindsay was getting basic run plays in a close game...I am very high on the kid but anyone who expected that type of usage is probably fibbing...

 
Boston said:
Could not agree more...I think that is what caught everyone by surprise...Lindsay was getting basic run plays in a close game...I am very high on the kid but anyone who expected that type of usage is probably fibbing...
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I agree. And will add that anyone overly confident about what is going to happen this week, or moving forward, is probably fibbing to themselves. 

 
Concept Coop said:
I agree. And will add that anyone overly confident about what is going to happen this week, or moving forward, is probably fibbing to themselves. 
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Yup...looks like a Denver did an unbelievable job restocking the offensive weapons...Freeman, Lindsay, Sutton and Hamilton....if they get that QB situation figured out long term this offense could be a handful for years to come...

 
Watched his tape from Sunday. Boy, is he fast. I saw some people in this thread downplay his touchdown run. Saying, "he didn't do anything special".

He does a lot special there. His elite speed makes that play. There are less players in this league that score a touchdown there, than that that do.

I see a little bit of Jamaal Charles in there. I know he's small but there were only a few carries where he gets met by a defender noticeably larger than him.

I can see him catching a lot of passes. He fits the Kamara / Ekeler mold. It's a copycat league, blah- blah- blah-

 
Never saw him play, but live near aurora where he played HS.  

It was one week.  If it happens again, and the raiders @ 5280 on a short week doesnt hurt, he may push rb2.  I do believe freeman will lead the way barring injury.  Its all about snaps and touches for both.

And for those of u worried about durability, even on the smal side, check out his wiki page CU stats (in the decent pac12) for 2016-17

542 rush atts

2700 yds at 5ypc

Oh, and 76 rec for almost 800 yds more. 

30+ tds

How he went undrafted is a mystery.    

 
I wanted to chime in. I actually grabbed him before he broke out this week so I’m pumped. Question tho. Wondering if dealing him now in a trade is the shark move. I mean who was the last guy in FF to storm the gates, virtually unknown (which is hard to do in this Information Age) and actually remain a thing. I mean just last year Galladay and Cohen came out quick and disappeared. There are others over the years in week 1 (Dallas wr can’t remember his name), etc. that have busted out but fizzled. Can you name anyone that came out like this and actually continued to ascend?  I can’t think of one. 

 
Concept Coop said:
What does this have to do with the Lindsay/Freeman split? Lindsay wasn't getting gadget touches; he was just as involved in the "basic plays" as Freeman was. 
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I would figure a big back to be more likely to fall forward a yard or so when tackled or in some fashion causing more wear n' tear on the Defense  IF Freeman is the RB1 the prior game should dictate quite a bit more usage  Could even be some grumblings among the coach's  Plus Freeman has to see some more pass opportunity's  We both know it isn't like College for style points  Basically, my point is that only the HC knows the real deal  At best we could assume a nice split in plays  Should take a few games to notice any real trends to make any real judgment calls

I do appreciate the clarification for others who may suspect we're speaking of a "gadget" player  I mean if it was my call I think we would see close to 200 yards on the ground  Knowing my QB threw three picks last game I may have trouble not turning into a B Sanders type show for a loss  However the Detroit D was putrid in comparison to Denver

//Edit  Maybe you could try an explain an ideal scenario type game for defining a bell cow back to see huge amounts of usage

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
When did Sproles or Woodhead breakdown because they couldn’t hold up for 15 carries a game? They were never used that way and I don’t think Sproles ever dealt with many injuries to be honest.

Woodhead didn’t really either until he past 30 and some of his injuries were more flukey like a broken leg.

Bottom line is that little backs and big backs get hurt just as often - it’s a violent sport and a violent position.

i think smaller backs do not see heavy workloads more because they aren’t as effective later in the game and aren’t as effective wearing down a defense.

Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, MJD, Tiki Barber, Brian Westbrook, Warrick Dunn (and others I’m missing) were all under 205 pounds and survived many seasons seeing 15+ carries plus receptions per game. 

Now is Linday on that level? Most likely not but let’s not pretend it’s not possible for smaller backs to be bellcow backs.
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Thank you for saying this as I was feeling like I was going to have to say it based on the size discriminators comments.

In my experience there is no changing their minds though, even though they are wrong.

 
Wondering why he was available on dynasty waiver wires after week 1. There was a strong amount of hype preseason that I would think he would have been picked up prior unless they’re really shallow benches. 

 
Especially when teams have proven time and time again they all kind of suck at drafting. Everything before and after the draft indicated this kid is going to be a player. 

 
zeeshan2 said:
Got an offer for kupp and a 3rd for him; ppr league that also rewards targets. Do I take it or hold?
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I’d take it...Kupp is very solid and a guy you can trust and know will continue to put up points where Lindsay is very much a question mark yet. Only way I wouldn’t is if your stacked at WR and don’t have much at rb

 
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