Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
RB Rhamondre Stevenson, NE (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter IHEARTFF
- Start date
jm192
Footballguy
He's certainly getting a lot more attention.
I liked his tape out of college. He's shown out in pre-season--and sure it's hard to conclude a lot when he's going against 2nd/3rd stringers--but I certainly think he's in the long-term discussion for touches.
If I'm not mistaken, Michel and White are FA's after the season. Harris will be an FA after the 2022 season. There's a real chance he finds a role.
Cost is going to be the issue in dynasty. Looking at the rookie draft thread--he's gone anywhere from late 2nd to 4th. And those were before the pre-season games. If he's suddenly creeping up into the mid-early 2nd--it's certainly a tougher consideration.
I liked his tape out of college. He's shown out in pre-season--and sure it's hard to conclude a lot when he's going against 2nd/3rd stringers--but I certainly think he's in the long-term discussion for touches.
If I'm not mistaken, Michel and White are FA's after the season. Harris will be an FA after the 2022 season. There's a real chance he finds a role.
Cost is going to be the issue in dynasty. Looking at the rookie draft thread--he's gone anywhere from late 2nd to 4th. And those were before the pre-season games. If he's suddenly creeping up into the mid-early 2nd--it's certainly a tougher consideration.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
RB coach Ivan Fears on rookie Rhamondre Stevenson: "He has made great improvement. He wasn't ready for the NFL, couldn't finish the conditioning test at first. Came a long way."
"We just can’t send him in there to run the ball. He’s got to do the other aspects of the game including the passing game, everything, to be a total player for us. So, is he there? Not yet. He’s not there yet."
"But I’ll tell you what, you like what you see from the kid, and I like the way the kid’s working, and I expect he’s going to continue to make progress in that area. So, we’ll see.”
“One thing about all these rookies that have come in, their strong suit has always been their ability to carry the ball. They’re all great athletes, they all know how to run the football. That’s not the issue. It’s the other part of the game that trips these guys up.
"Rhamondre’s got the same thing. He’s gotta learn to play the entire game. We just can’t send him in there to run the ball."
"We just can’t send him in there to run the ball. He’s got to do the other aspects of the game including the passing game, everything, to be a total player for us. So, is he there? Not yet. He’s not there yet."
"But I’ll tell you what, you like what you see from the kid, and I like the way the kid’s working, and I expect he’s going to continue to make progress in that area. So, we’ll see.”
“One thing about all these rookies that have come in, their strong suit has always been their ability to carry the ball. They’re all great athletes, they all know how to run the football. That’s not the issue. It’s the other part of the game that trips these guys up.
"Rhamondre’s got the same thing. He’s gotta learn to play the entire game. We just can’t send him in there to run the ball."
Last edited by a moderator:
TripItUp
Footballguy
I think this makes him a great buy-low this year in dynasties...I'd be targeting him by midseason if he's not getting touches...potentially when his value is rock bottom.
I nabbed him in my dynasty draft at 2.11 yesterday. Couldn't be happier.
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don't think he will see the field very much this year. I do think the NE RB corps will do very well, so if people see him as an heir apparent at some point, then smart people would see his potential value.
How he does to develop the rest of his game to become an all around player is anyone's guess, but the assumption would be that he improves in those other areas.
TripItUp
Footballguy
So optimal buy low time might be late in the season...that's what I'm trying to pin down.
I'm 100% a believer he's going to be a thing by next year if not earlier. My opinion is that the Pats coaches can spout all the coach speak they want, but if Harris/Michel are ineffective or injured, Stevenson is going to get major run (assuming he's prepared.)
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
IMO, if you think he will be a thing, then go get him (unless the asking price would be considered excessive). If he does get into the lineup due to injuries and has a big week in a real game, then his stock will only go up.
The only thing I would still tell as a cautionary tale is as long as BB is the head coach, there will likely be 3-4 backs on the roster that will siphon away production from each other. As of today, I don't project Stevenson to be a dual threat back, nor would I project him to be a 20 carry a game back (meaning in future years).
To me, in NE, he projects as a fantasy RB3 with RB2 upside. YMMV.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Very reasonable take for 2021.
I just keep on thinking of Legarret Blounte and his 19 TD season in 2016.
A few reasons I'm becoming more optimistic for Stevenson.
1) Michel looks cooked to me, very little burst
2) harris hasn't proven he can stay healthy
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
As someone that has seen just about every NE play for 20+ years . . .
Blount only had the season he did due to injuries to other backs and very little RB depth. BB has since said he has revised his roster building and coaching philosophy to now have an extra back or two to avoid that situation again (and mentioned he will not overload anyone to keep everyone fresh across the entire season).
Michel looks like a completely different player both last year and this year (compared to his first two seasons). They are mixing him into the receiving game this year (he had 4 receptions the other night and a 5th that got wiped out by penalty in about a quarter of playing time against PHI).
Both Michel and Harris were rated in the Top 10 RBs last year by PFF. Harris is great at finishing runs and has added a lot of muscle. Michel is very good across the board (hitting the hole, cut backs, angles and positioning, certainly blitz pick up, and now rounding into a receiver). Sure, he isn't going to get a length of the field TD, but that's not Michel's game. Stevenson at this point is just a runner that has looked good against scrubs with poor tackling technique. I agree in the open he has plus speed, but against starting level defenders I am not sure he would look as good as he has in garbage time in the preseason.
Harris will be around for two more years. True, he hasn't shown he can stay healthy. But we have no idea if Stevenson can (and if he can avoid off field issues). I am not convinced Michel will automatically be gone next year like others do. IMO, they declined his 5th year option because they didn't want to pay him a guaranteed $5 million for next year. If he finds a soft RB market, I can see him coming back. White might be gone next year as well. Too soon to guess who will stick around and who won't for next year . . . a lot will depend on how things shakeout this year.
Stevenson's best path to top tier fantasy production is a change in the coaching hierarchy to a coach that wants a featured back / bell cow back. That certainly could happen eventually but for now it doesn't look like BB is going anywhere.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Yeah, I guess this is the only part of your summary that I'm surprised by...Michel's effectiveness.
He looks broken down to me, and he did last year to me too.
I would think a scenario where Harris gets injured (again) coupled with Michel ineffectiveness is a pretty obvious path to fantasy relevance, and maybe even a likely path.
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If Michel didn't get COVID last year, he would have ranked #2 the league in YPC with a few more carries to qualify (5.7). On a limited number of receptions, he averaged 16.3 yards per reception. Those were 2.0 and 8.5 yards higher than the season prior. Not sure how that = ineffective.
I was one of the leaders bashing him his first two seasons when he didn't do much, but he performed much better last year (and looks much better this training camp). However, he also is a candidate to get hurt and miss half the season, so the best we can categorize him is "looks much better in a limited sample size."
TripItUp
Footballguy
okay, so maybe my eyes are fooling me on Michel. Those numbers really surprise me.
With those kind of numbers, you would think Michel's ADP would be higher.
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The narrative out of camp has been that Harris is being touted as the lead back and Michel's roster spot has been in danger (potential trade or cut). I think both of those have been a bit skewed. I already posted how I thought things would play out this year. I don't see Michel going anywhere this season.
I have not heard much about Harris being used as a receiver out of the backfield this off season (which I have for Michel). Factor in Cam in the mix (at least in the early part of the season), and the NE backfield has too many guys splitting the work in the backfield to have a regular fantasy contributor at RB. Once they move on to Jones and if a RB goes down to injury, that will change the dynamic and the production levels of the other healthy RBs.
TripItUp
Footballguy
I agree with the bolded until players get injured, which I think is inevitable given this backfield's injury history.
TripItUp
Footballguy
So with the stats you posted, why would Michel be on the chopping block...doesn't make sense...maybe the Pats saw what I saw and the stats don't really reflect Michel's effectiveness.
rockaction
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Unless NE trusts the RB to perform ALL RB tasks (pass pro, route running, etc) I don’t think you see the field much. I would guess Michel stays on roster and Stevenson only comes into play if injuries hit.
TripItUp
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Certainly a possibility. Again, an additional game doesn’t sound like much to a fan…but tell that to an RB getting rammed 20 a game. The RBBC becomes a reality for all teams this year and talented RB3’s become noticed on the radar by FFers. I still think unless Stevenson is above average in pass-pro he won’t see the field much, but maybe he will catch on quick.fixed
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Here's what led us to this point . . .
- NE declined Michel's 5th year option, leading some to conclude he was on the outs and had no future with the team. (Left out of the reporting was that NE would have to guarantee him $5M for next year . . . triple what he makes currently.)
- NE drafted Stevenson.
- NE re-signed White.
- Michel skipped voluntary off season sessions.
- Ace beat reporter Mike Reiss mentioned the only two locks on the roster at RB were Harris and Stevenson.
- Sports Edge took that to mean that Stevenson had surpassed Michel and his roster spot was in jeopardy. They have not let up on that stance in their editorializing and comments since.
- Reiss mentioned he felt Harris was the clear number one of the RBBC . . . yet some places have run with that and started projecting Harris as a lead dog (and Michel having no spot on the roster).
- BB gave glowing reviews on how Harris looked at the start of training camp and how much work he put in over the off-season.
However, in training camp, the following has happened:
- Harris and Michel have split reps with the first team almost evenly.
- Michel has started being used as a receiver out of the backfield, as well as lined up as a receiver and put in motion. It's been said he is much more comfortable and better understands what they want of him as a receiver.
- From those that have been to training camp regularly, people say he looks quicker, cuts better, and has been harder to tackle. He's made multiple tough catches, has looked tougher and no longer gets brought down with arm tackles, and runs with more authority.
- In the first pre-season game, Michel was split out wide and was moved around in motion and in and out of the backfield based on blocking assignments and audibles.
- In the second pre-season game vs. PHI, after Harris had a couple series with the starters, Sony had his two turns playing with the starters. He had 4 catches on 4 targets for 37 yards (and another reception for about 10 yards negated by penalty) to go along with 7 rushes for 34 yards. To be fair, PHI sat most of their primary defenders, so who knows how things would have gone against the PHI starting defense. (Stevenson and Taylor came in after that in mop up duty, compiling 31 touches, 185 YFS, and 3 TD against the bottom of the Eagles 85 man roster).
- Several people (myself included) thought he looked the best he's looked in NE during that game and looked to be the sharpest of the RB's.
That gets to where we are currently. People can decide what happens from here and how things play out on their own.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
That’s a tough one. JJ early in camp was getting talked up by some people as the heir apparent to White. But as the practices started piling up, some people felt he didn’t really pop and was probably on the outside looking in as far as a roster spot.
Then he looked good the other night in garbage time against the Eagles bottom of the roster guys. If they keep Michel, it could come down to Taylor or Bolden making the roster. They could try to get JJ on the PS again. Strategically, it probably makes more sense to either cut Bolden and get him on the PS (he would make it easier than Taylor) or BB could cut Bolden and bring him back Week 2.
The problem for Taylor in NE is they have multiple backs that are very capable. Sure, if they move on next year from Michel and White (and don’t draft someone else), yeah, Taylor could carve out a role. But we have to get through this year before wondering WHAT IF for next year.
I also wonder if this year they might see if Michel could play the White role. Certainly a lot of moving parts and considerations in the NE backfield.
I actually wondered if White could be a surprise cut. Doubtful but one never knows. Appreciate your take.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There were some whispers about White being a surprise cut 10-14 days ago. He was said to be sluggish at the beginning of camp. But he’s looked better since then and most beat guys think he is pretty much a lock to make the roster at this point.
The other thing a little different this year is other than Akers with LAR, there really has been a rash of RB injuries across the league. Should a contender lose someone last minute, that could create a trade market for Michel or White. BB would trade his mother if he got something back in return, so there’s always a chance of a trade coming in from left field.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Enlighten me as to why Michel is guaranteed to be gone? He was excellent last year and is adding a receiving role this year. RBs don’t get paid squat in free agency. As you said, it’s unlikely anyone else will want him for a big role. You don’t think if he did well this year and was willing to play for what he’s getting now NE wouldn’t want him back?
TripItUp
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Anarchy99 said:
Do you think Bill is mulling over whether to keep Taylor and say goodbye to Bolden?
Boston
Footballguy
Has to be...there is zero chance that he makes it to the practice squad...gotta believe Taylor is a strong candidate to take over the White role (which is a staple of this offense) in 2022...if I had to guess (and it is purely a guess on my part) Wilkerson could be a potential replacement for Bolden on special teams as it frees up a RB slot and gives them more depth at WR which they are very thin at.
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If they want both guys, it will be far easier to cut Bolden and add him Week 2 and put him on practice squad. Taylor will get claimed by someone else.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Yep, Bill likes his RBs. And he likes to draft RBs. You know what else he likes to do? Bring back his RBs. Blount, Bolden, Burkhead, White, Lewis, and Green-Ellis all got at least a second contract with the team. IMO, we won’t have much idea how things will look next year until after this year . . . and also see what the market rate will be for RBs.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Huge win for Stevenson with Michel being traded to the Rams. He is inching towards redraft value at this point.
Boston
Footballguy
Michel trade means he will get time this year and if Harris were to go down it would be a lot of time...here is the x-factor...who becomes the goal-line back once Mac is the QB...both Harris and Stevenson run hard so it could end up being either but if I had to guess my gut feeling is it will be Stevenson but whoever gets that role gets a nice bump in their value.
Last edited by a moderator:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There are so many Michel / NE RB threads it's hard to keep up. IMO, RS will see some short yardage and goal line work and probably will get some garbage time carries in blowouts. Probably will come in to spell Harris as well.
I don't think they will trust him as a receiver or in pass protection, as they have pretty much alluded to the fact that he really needs work in those areas. But on running plays only he becomes an option.
TripItUp
Footballguy
This also validates what we've seen on the field, which is Stevenson looks like the best or at least close to the best pure runner of the lot.
Last edited by a moderator:
johnnycakes
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
I wouldn't move him much. He shouldn't skyrocket because the Pats moved on from Michel.
Everyone expected the Pats to get rid of a back. They did. Rhamondre is gonna make the team, once he looked decent, we knew that. He's still 3rd at the trough, who plays for a coach who uses a committee.
I like Rhamondre, I'm rooting for him. I drafted him twice. But his upside might be Michel/Harris workload numbers. I would still take Toney over him, JUST based on draft capital, and Nico Collins as well.
Rhamondre has looked good, got some nice preseason production, but for him to skyrocket, I would need to hear from camp that he was some phenom who is better than the team hoped, blah blah blah. We're just hearing that he's looked good, and will make the team.
Actually, today might be the day to trade Rhamondre.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Birdie048
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
I am definitely betting the over on Stevenson TDs if that's the Vegas number...usually Clay is close to Vegas.
TripItUp
Footballguy
I think Clay's numbers take all factors into account...this looks like he is forecasting a QB timeshare.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Similar threads
