Roe v. Wade Overturned (2 Viewers)

[Zow]

I don't know what world you're living in but women are registering to vote at record rates and it's because of the abortion issue. You are really underestimating the power and motivation of women.

in my circle the women vote pro-life, they vote pro-women in sports (not men in sports), they vote for the economy, they vote for school/education etc

abortion isn't a top thing for most if not all .... I will say the younger women, yes to them it is a hot topic because they've been told by Democrats to be angry and they're influenced and misinformed and if you try and discuss it they do the Democrat thing and refuse to talk about it

we'll see how it all comes down in mid-terms I suppose

Not are circles are the same. I also humbly suggest one find as many circles to be a part of as possible.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

so you support partial birth abortion if that was woman's decision.

Since I believe the numbers are 5 out of 6 times these late term abortions are to save the mother and/or the fetus from suffering then this is obviously a yes. Those 16% or so that are not a medical emergency and merely "convenience" is just the price that we need to pay.

Oh, and 5 in 6 might be off, but correcting the precision of these numbers doesn't create any other reasonable choices.

 

[quick-hands]

so you support partial birth abortion if that was woman's decision.

Since I believe the numbers are 5 out of 6 times these late term abortions are to save the mother and/or the fetus from suffering then this is obviously a yes. Those 16% or so that are not a medical emergency and merely "convenience" is just the price that we need to pay.

Oh, and 5 in 6 might be off, but correcting the precision of these numbers doesn't create any other reasonable choices.

no. that's a made up number. an abortion is usually just as dangerous or more so. a late term abortion is usually just a choice. if there is a danger to the mother they do a c section.

but since you brought it up. that 16 % is technically infanticide. would you be ok with the mother deciding that she doesn't want it after the baby is delivered? making the baby comfortable and letting it die?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

no. that's a made up number. an abortion is usually just as dangerous or more so. a late term abortion is usually just a choice. if there is a danger to the mother they do a c section.

but since you brought it up. that 16 % is technically infanticide. would you be ok with the mother deciding that she doesn't want it after the baby is delivered? making the baby comfortable and letting it die?

It could be a made up number. It is not mine other than maybe faulty memory regurgitating it. But even if it is nonsense and you need to flip it to be accurate, the point remains that there simply isn't a viable means to distinguish between them timely enough. The "just give birth" narrative is sometimes viable and I believe is the path pursued most of the time when it can be. Late term abortions are rare and the ones for convenance are almost always - I believe - due to one or more barriers preventing it earlier. I'm guessing these will now increase. Happy?

And nope, it is not infanticide. Not technically, not almost, not in any way shape or form.

 

[quick-hands]

no. that's a made up number. an abortion is usually just as dangerous or more so. a late term abortion is usually just a choice. if there is a danger to the mother they do a c section.

but since you brought it up. that 16 % is technically infanticide. would you be ok with the mother deciding that she doesn't want it after the baby is delivered? making the baby comfortable and letting it die?

It could be a made up number. It is not mine other than maybe faulty memory regurgitating it. But even if it is nonsense and you need to flip it to be accurate, the point remains that there simply isn't a viable means to distinguish between them timely enough. The "just give birth" narrative is sometimes viable and I believe is the path pursued most of the time when it can be. Late term abortions are rare and the ones for convenance are almost always - I believe - due to one or more barriers preventing it earlier. I'm guessing these will now increase. Happy?

And nope, it is not infanticide. Not technically, not almost, not in any way shape or form.

so the day before it is born you are cool with killing him/her. and the next day it's outside her body. you think it's a baby?

you didn't answer the question about the post birth abortion.

also you say you are cool with 16% of abortions being the cost we pay.

according to https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ew-abortions-so-why-all-attention/1211175001/ only 1.5% of abortions are from rape or incest.

that's a far less cost.

 

[FairWarning]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

 

[supermike80]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

OMG how could you leave out INCEST!!!! RAPE AND INCEST!!! This is the stupid rallying cry that tires me..Clearly you deliberately left out that massive percentage of unwanted pregnancy. Shame on you

 

[Snotbubbles]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

OMG how could you leave out INCEST!!!! RAPE AND INCEST!!! This is the stupid rallying cry that tires me..Clearly you deliberately left out that massive percentage of unwanted pregnancy. Shame on you

I think incest falls into "other". So when I did my quick numbers I included "other" with rape and health issues.

The bottom line is, using abortion as a contraception is not a good thing.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

OMG how could you leave out INCEST!!!! RAPE AND INCEST!!! This is the stupid rallying cry that tires me..Clearly you deliberately left out that massive percentage of unwanted pregnancy. Shame on you

I think incest falls into "other". So when I did my quick numbers I included "other" with rape and health issues.

The bottom line is, using abortion as a contraception is not a good thing.

In the post before this you claim the right does get it, and then you go back in the next post to the "abortion as contraception" trope.

I submit you either still don't get the motivations, or you don't consider yourself part of the right.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position.

The bottom line is, using abortion as a contraception is not a good thing.

What the right doesn't get, or at least a significant portion is that opposing contraception leads to abortion. And yes, a non-trivial share of the pro-life movement is opposed to all contraception, and an even larger share is opposed to at least some contraception (because it is a form of abortion).

Despite efforts to thwart it, the passage of ObamaCare has led to a great reduction in abortions in this country simply because contraception (more precisely to this success long-lasting contraception) was made freely available.

As pretty much always what the right doesn't get is that it is the right's own policy choices as well as its shaming of women for having sex that is the cause of higher abortion rates. Then again, they probably do get it. But you guys are "cool with that" I suppose. Even those that argue that abortion is the #1 issue aren't willing to give up those conservative policies to achieve lower rates. Instead, they will "wash our hands" of abortion by punishing those loose women who dare have unapproved sex and get caught by becoming pregnant.

 

[Stealthycat]

Not are circles are the same. I also humbly suggest one find as many circles to be a part of as possible.

CBS News Battleground Tracker – September 21-23, 2022.pdf

drive.google.com

13. How important will each of these issues be in your vote for Congress this year?
Among likely voters

Very
important

Somewhat
Important

Not too/not
important

Economy 82% 16% 2%
Inflation 76% 20% 4%
Abortion 59% 21% 20%
Gun policy 61% 24% 15%
Coronavirus 30% 31% 39%
Issues of race 36% 29% 35%
Voting and election issues 64% 27% 9%
Climate change 45% 19% 36%
Immigration 62% 29% 9%
January 6th events and investigation 42% 16% 42%
Crime 67% 26% 7%
The 2020 election 42% 24% 34%

 

[FairWarning]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

OMG how could you leave out INCEST!!!! RAPE AND INCEST!!! This is the stupid rallying cry that tires me..Clearly you deliberately left out that massive percentage of unwanted pregnancy. Shame on you

I think incest falls into "other". So when I did my quick numbers I included "other" with rape and health issues.

The bottom line is, using abortion as a contraception is not a good thing.

Idc one way or another on that part, it really doesn’t affect me. I can see how traumatic it would be in the case of incest or rape though.

 

[-fish-]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

Most people fall in the middle. Some access, some restrictions. At this point we only have extremes.

 

[-fish-]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

Most people fall in the middle. Some access, some restrictions. At this point we only have extremes.

I agree that most women want access to safe, legal abortion. The details of the restrictions, if any, are just a political football. The "extremes" are access to safe and legal abortions on one side or criminalizing all abortion and even contraception on the other. So no, we don't have extremes. We have right wing evangelical extremists like Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

Most people fall in the middle. Some access, some restrictions. At this point we only have extremes.

I agree that most women want access to safe, legal abortion. The details of the restrictions, if any, are just a political football. The "extremes" are access to safe and legal abortions on one side or criminalizing all abortion and even contraception on the other. So no, we don't have extremes. We have right wing evangelical extremists like Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh.

@-fish- I know you're smarter than that. Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh have yet to pass any abortion laws, they simply interpreted the Constitution (correctly IMO).

Only 35% of Americans think abortion should be legal under any circumstances. 50% want some restrictions. 13% want total restrictions. Most American's WANT abortion restrictions.

 

[FairWarning]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

I wonder how many R’s are pro-life. I have no idea.

 

[-fish-]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

Most people fall in the middle. Some access, some restrictions. At this point we only have extremes.

I agree that most women want access to safe, legal abortion. The details of the restrictions, if any, are just a political football. The "extremes" are access to safe and legal abortions on one side or criminalizing all abortion and even contraception on the other. So no, we don't have extremes. We have right wing evangelical extremists like Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh.

@-fish- I know you're smarter than that. Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh have yet to pass any abortion laws, they simply interpreted the Constitution (correctly IMO).

Only 35% of Americans think abortion should be legal under any circumstances. 50% want some restrictions. 13% want total restrictions. Most American's WANT abortion restrictions.

People are bad at responding to polls. Gallup says 60+% of Americans want abortion to be legal in all circumstances.

My point is that there aren't two extremes. People aren't "pro-abortion." Nobody's going out and getting abortions for fun or for a tik tok. The vast majority of abortions at this point are medical abortions (meaning a combination of two drugs) with no actual procedure, occurring before 15 weeks. The horror stories of "partial birth abortion" or killing babies after birth are nonsense and in almost every case fiction. Most partial birth abortions are due to hydrocephalus. Zero are elective. People just don't go through 7 or 8 months of pregnancy and then decide "I don't feel like doing this any more."

Alito, et al. had the opportunity to rule on the Mississippi statute and decide that 15 weeks was reasonable. Instead they chose chaos as part of their destruction of stare decisis.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

@-fish- I know you're smarter than that. Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh have yet to pass any abortion laws, they simply interpreted the Constitution (correctly IMO).

Maybe they [arguably] got the constitutional interpretation correct, but the historical analysis they used in the abortion case and the NYC gun case was "Pants of Fire". And it is not that they were just ill informed and got a few things wrong, they flat out ignored briefs submitted by historians. So let us stop kidding ourselves about these guys having some foundational legal principle other than whatever it takes to achieve the end goal. Because now that they have the numbers they are no longer pretending otherwise and are simply seizing the moment before their window closes. Whatever "winners rewrite history" that it takes!

 

[Snotbubbles]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

I wonder how many R’s are pro-life. I have no idea.

How do we define "pro-life" or "pro-choice"?

 

[Snotbubbles]

@-fish- I know you're smarter than that. Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh have yet to pass any abortion laws, they simply interpreted the Constitution (correctly IMO).

Maybe they [arguably] got the constitutional interpretation correct, but the historical analysis they used in the abortion case and the NYC gun case was "Pants of Fire". And it is not that they were just ill informed and got a few things wrong, they flat out ignored briefs submitted by historians. So let us stop kidding ourselves about these guys having some foundational legal principle other than whatever it takes to achieve the end goal. Because now that they have the numbers they are no longer pretending otherwise and are simply seizing the moment before their window closes. Whatever "winners rewrite history" that it takes!

That sounds like the Roe court minus any foundational legal principle. At least the Dobbs court got to the proper constitutional interpretation. Abortion is where is should be and where it should have been. Roe set this country back 50 years.

 

[FairWarning]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

I wonder how many R’s are pro-life. I have no idea.

How do we define "pro-life" or "pro-choice"?

I would say the pro life are against it while pro choice want the option. Everything in the middle can be negotiated.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

Most people fall in the middle. Some access, some restrictions. At this point we only have extremes.

I agree that most women want access to safe, legal abortion. The details of the restrictions, if any, are just a political football. The "extremes" are access to safe and legal abortions on one side or criminalizing all abortion and even contraception on the other. So no, we don't have extremes. We have right wing evangelical extremists like Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh.

@-fish- I know you're smarter than that. Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh have yet to pass any abortion laws, they simply interpreted the Constitution (correctly IMO).

Only 35% of Americans think abortion should be legal under any circumstances. 50% want some restrictions. 13% want total restrictions. Most American's WANT abortion restrictions.

People are bad at responding to polls. Gallup says 60+% of Americans want abortion to be legal in all circumstances.

My point is that there aren't two extremes. People aren't "pro-abortion." Nobody's going out and getting abortions for fun or for a tik tok. The vast majority of abortions at this point are medical abortions (meaning a combination of two drugs) with no actual procedure, occurring before 15 weeks. The horror stories of "partial birth abortion" or killing babies after birth are nonsense and in almost every case fiction. Most partial birth abortions are due to hydrocephalus. Zero are elective. People just don't go through 7 or 8 months of pregnancy and then decide "I don't feel like doing this any more."

Alito, et al. had the opportunity to rule on the Mississippi statute and decide that 15 weeks was reasonable. Instead they chose chaos as part of their destruction of stare decisis.

Which poll Gallup poll are you using? The one I see: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

 

[Snotbubbles]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

I wonder how many R’s are pro-life. I have no idea.

How do we define "pro-life" or "pro-choice"?

I would say the pro life are against it while pro choice want the option. Everything in the middle can be negotiated.

Ok. So I support an abortion ban at 10 weeks (emergency/health issues thereafter). So I'm pro-choice?

 

[FairWarning]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

I wonder how many R’s are pro-life. I have no idea.

How do we define "pro-life" or "pro-choice"?

I would say the pro life are against it while pro choice want the option. Everything in the middle can be negotiated.

Ok. So I support an abortion ban at 10 weeks (emergency/health issues thereafter). So I'm pro-choice?

I don’t think there is a hard and fast rule to it.

 

[-fish-]

@-fish- I know you're smarter than that. Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh have yet to pass any abortion laws, they simply interpreted the Constitution (correctly IMO).

Maybe they [arguably] got the constitutional interpretation correct, but the historical analysis they used in the abortion case and the NYC gun case was "Pants of Fire". And it is not that they were just ill informed and got a few things wrong, they flat out ignored briefs submitted by historians. So let us stop kidding ourselves about these guys having some foundational legal principle other than whatever it takes to achieve the end goal. Because now that they have the numbers they are no longer pretending otherwise and are simply seizing the moment before their window closes. Whatever "winners rewrite history" that it takes!

That sounds like the Roe court minus any foundational legal principle. At least the Dobbs court got to the proper constitutional interpretation. Abortion is where is should be and where it should have been. Roe set this country back 50 years.

Under that analysis we should also kick contraception, interracial marriage and same sex marriage back to the states. Let's just get rid of privacy altogether. The same backward red states will try to ban all of them. Half of our country wants to live in the 50's, but yeah, it was Roe that set the country back.

Dobbs, like Buren, isn't "proper constitutional interpretation." History and tradition my butt. They pick and choose the history they want and ignore the rest. This is honestly the worst court of my lifetime. Activist evangelicals with a complete disregard not only of precedent but of their own decisions.

 

[-fish-]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

Most people fall in the middle. Some access, some restrictions. At this point we only have extremes.

I agree that most women want access to safe, legal abortion. The details of the restrictions, if any, are just a political football. The "extremes" are access to safe and legal abortions on one side or criminalizing all abortion and even contraception on the other. So no, we don't have extremes. We have right wing evangelical extremists like Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh.

@-fish- I know you're smarter than that. Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh have yet to pass any abortion laws, they simply interpreted the Constitution (correctly IMO).

Only 35% of Americans think abortion should be legal under any circumstances. 50% want some restrictions. 13% want total restrictions. Most American's WANT abortion restrictions.

People are bad at responding to polls. Gallup says 60+% of Americans want abortion to be legal in all circumstances.

My point is that there aren't two extremes. People aren't "pro-abortion." Nobody's going out and getting abortions for fun or for a tik tok. The vast majority of abortions at this point are medical abortions (meaning a combination of two drugs) with no actual procedure, occurring before 15 weeks. The horror stories of "partial birth abortion" or killing babies after birth are nonsense and in almost every case fiction. Most partial birth abortions are due to hydrocephalus. Zero are elective. People just don't go through 7 or 8 months of pregnancy and then decide "I don't feel like doing this any more."

Alito, et al. had the opportunity to rule on the Mississippi statute and decide that 15 weeks was reasonable. Instead they chose chaos as part of their destruction of stare decisis.

Which poll Gallup poll are you using? The one I see: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Sorry, it was Pew. Misremembered whose poll it was.

Today, a 61% majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. These views are relatively unchanged in the past few years.

Again, you miss the point. Phrase the question one way, get one result. Phrase it another, get a different result. You claim 35% of Americans think abortion should be legal in all circumstances, I just showed you a poll saying it's 61% and has been for years. People are bad at responding to polls, just like pollsters are bad at asking unbiased, non-leading questions.

 

[Rubiobot]

This is honestly the worst court of my lifetime. Activist evangelicals with a complete disregard not only of precedent but of their own decisions.

 

[supermike80]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

Most people fall in the middle. Some access, some restrictions. At this point we only have extremes.

I agree that most women want access to safe, legal abortion. The details of the restrictions, if any, are just a political football. The "extremes" are access to safe and legal abortions on one side or criminalizing all abortion and even contraception on the other. So no, we don't have extremes. We have right wing evangelical extremists like Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh.

@-fish- I know you're smarter than that. Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh have yet to pass any abortion laws, they simply interpreted the Constitution (correctly IMO).

Only 35% of Americans think abortion should be legal under any circumstances. 50% want some restrictions. 13% want total restrictions. Most American's WANT abortion restrictions.

People are bad at responding to polls. Gallup says 60+% of Americans want abortion to be legal in all circumstances.

My point is that there aren't two extremes. People aren't "pro-abortion." Nobody's going out and getting abortions for fun or for a tik tok. The vast majority of abortions at this point are medical abortions (meaning a combination of two drugs) with no actual procedure, occurring before 15 weeks. The horror stories of "partial birth abortion" or killing babies after birth are nonsense and in almost every case fiction. Most partial birth abortions are due to hydrocephalus. Zero are elective. People just don't go through 7 or 8 months of pregnancy and then decide "I don't feel like doing this any more."

Alito, et al. had the opportunity to rule on the Mississippi statute and decide that 15 weeks was reasonable. Instead they chose chaos as part of their destruction of stare decisis.

Which poll Gallup poll are you using? The one I see: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Sorry, it was Pew. Misremembered whose poll it was.

Today, a 61% majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. These views are relatively unchanged in the past few years.

Again, you miss the point. Phrase the question one way, get one result. Phrase it another, get a different result. You claim 35% of Americans think abortion should be legal in all circumstances, I just showed you a poll saying it's 61% and has been for years. People are bad at responding to polls, just like pollsters are bad at asking unbiased, non-leading questions.

Polls are fun!!

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

At least the Dobbs court got to the proper constitutional interpretation.

For sake of argument the approach they took to deciding these cases is accepted as valid. It is not but let us go ahead and ignore that for a minute. These cases were thus to be decided by the historical analysis. In both cases these were decided by incorrect history. So, at the very best these decisions are flawed by misinterpreting (feeling generous) historical facts.

The methodology is absurd. The application was dishonest. But that never mattered. Getting the results that were needed was all that mattered. Just how our founding fathers drew up the constitution.

 

[-fish-]

At least the Dobbs court got to the proper constitutional interpretation.

For sake of argument the approach they took to deciding these cases is accepted as valid. It is not but let us go ahead and ignore that for a minute. These cases were thus to be decided by the historical analysis. In both cases these were decided by incorrect history. So, at the very best these decisions are flawed by misinterpreting (feeling generous) historical facts.

The methodology is absurd. The application was dishonest. But that never mattered. Getting the results that were needed was all that mattered. Just how our founding fathers drew up the constitution.

What's worse was earlier in the term, they tipped their hand that they planned on disregarding precedent (which has been Thomas' wish for years) by publishing their test for when to ignore stare decisis and to overturn cases. Then they ignored their own ruling in multiple cases where they wanted the result to be overturn previously settled law.

 

[BladeRunner]

The world has not ended. How about that? All that OMG Roe v Wade Doomsday™ and here we still are.

 

[-fish-]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero

I wonder how many R’s are pro-life. I have no idea.

How do we define "pro-life" or "pro-choice"?

I would say the pro life are against it while pro choice want the option. Everything in the middle can be negotiated.

Ok. So I support an abortion ban at 10 weeks (emergency/health issues thereafter). So I'm pro-choice?

I'd say you're posturing at being pro-choice, but you really aren't. Average time for a woman to learn she's pregnant is 6-7 weeks. By cutting it off at 10 you're taking away choice for any woman who discovers her pregnancy late, and for all you are unreasonably limiting time to make a thoughtful decision and explore options. Move it to 15 weeks with an exception for health and you're reasonably pro-choice (odd to apply that term to Mississippi's law, but 15 weeks covers about 85% of abortions). Had the court just ruled on the case in front of it and upheld the Mississippi law instead of tossing out the entire implied right of privacy and ignoring 70+ years of precedent, I think that they would have had somewhere reasonable to go. Of course, some state would have immediately passed a heartbeat law or a conception law, but it would have been simple to just draw a bright line.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Ok. So I support an abortion ban at 10 weeks (emergency/health issues thereafter). So I'm pro-choice?

Who decides what is an emergency and/or health issue? How does that work in a time is of the essence scenario? How would "second guessing" after the fact work? Would the drug mill decision be applicable?

 

[-fish-]

Ok. So I support an abortion ban at 10 weeks (emergency/health issues thereafter). So I'm pro-choice?

Who decides what is an emergency and/or health issue? How does that work in a time is of the essence scenario? How would "second guessing" after the fact work? Would the drug mill decision be applicable?

These unanswered questions are also driving things like Idaho University blocking student access to birth control. They are afraid of liability based on the state's complete ban and punitive measures against providers.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

These unanswered questions are also driving things like Idaho University blocking student access to birth control. They are afraid of liability based on the state's complete ban and punitive measures against providers.

I think that also gets into which forms of contraception are considered abortion. The Pro-Life groups generally have long list of birth control methods that they disapprove of because they are "abortion" before you even get to any religious objections. Those birth control methods that have cut abortion rates nearly in half.

 

[massraider]

Australian woman deported from US says border agency told her questions about abortion were policy
Madolline Gourley says she was asked whether she’d had an abortion while detained at Los Angeles airport in June. It came days after Roe v Wade – the landmark court case that legalised abortion – was overturned in the United States.
Gourley says she was en route to Canada when she was held in a detention room, interrogated twice, patted down, fingerprinted, photographed and then deported during a stopover in the US.

 

[-fish-]

Satanic Temple suing Idaho for its restrictive abortion laws, saying they violate religious freedoms.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Satanic Temple suing Idaho for its restrictive abortion laws, saying they violate religious freedoms.

If they win, are we seeing a huge rise in membership to the church?

 

[Snotbubbles]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero.

Most people fall in the middle. Some access, some restrictions. At this point we only have extremes.

I agree that most women want access to safe, legal abortion. The details of the restrictions, if any, are just a political football. The "extremes" are access to safe and legal abortions on one side or criminalizing all abortion and even contraception on the other. So no, we don't have extremes. We have right wing evangelical extremists like Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh.

@-fish- I know you're smarter than that. Alito, Thomas, ACB and Kavanaugh have yet to pass any abortion laws, they simply interpreted the Constitution (correctly IMO).

Only 35% of Americans think abortion should be legal under any circumstances. 50% want some restrictions. 13% want total restrictions. Most American's WANT abortion restrictions.

People are bad at responding to polls. Gallup says 60+% of Americans want abortion to be legal in all circumstances.

My point is that there aren't two extremes. People aren't "pro-abortion." Nobody's going out and getting abortions for fun or for a tik tok. The vast majority of abortions at this point are medical abortions (meaning a combination of two drugs) with no actual procedure, occurring before 15 weeks. The horror stories of "partial birth abortion" or killing babies after birth are nonsense and in almost every case fiction. Most partial birth abortions are due to hydrocephalus. Zero are elective. People just don't go through 7 or 8 months of pregnancy and then decide "I don't feel like doing this any more."

Alito, et al. had the opportunity to rule on the Mississippi statute and decide that 15 weeks was reasonable. Instead they chose chaos as part of their destruction of stare decisis.

Which poll Gallup poll are you using? The one I see: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Sorry, it was Pew. Misremembered whose poll it was.

Today, a 61% majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. These views are relatively unchanged in the past few years.

Again, you miss the point. Phrase the question one way, get one result. Phrase it another, get a different result. You claim 35% of Americans think abortion should be legal in all circumstances, I just showed you a poll saying it's 61% and has been for years. People are bad at responding to polls, just like pollsters are bad at asking unbiased, non-leading questions.

The poll you posted doesn't say that. Your poll says 61% of people want abortion legal in all or some cases. Then when you click on the links it breaks that 61% down even further:

Of the 61% - 31% say it should be legal in all cases, 56% say that how long a woman was pregnant should matter and in some cases abortion should be illegal, 12% say how long a woman was pregnant should not matter and abortion should be illegal. So even the poll you posted, only a small portion fall into the legal in all cases (31% of the 61%), the rest fall into the legal with restrictions.

America's Abortion Quandary

A majority of Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, but many are open to restrictions; many opponents of legal abortion say it should be legal in some circumstances.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Snotbubbles]

Teen interest in long-lasting birth control soars after Roe

Sixteen-year-old Adismarys Abreu had been discussing a long-lasting birth control implant with her mother for about a year as a potential solution to increasing menstrual pain. Then Roe v. Wade was overturned, and Abreu joined the throng of teens rushing to their doctors as states began to ban...

www.yahoo.com

I posted this in the other abortion thread. This seems weird to me? Almost like people are somehow upset they now have to use BC rather than abortion as BC? Weird weird article.

Some patients are especially fearful because the new abortion laws in several states don't include exceptions for sexual assault.

“Please, I need some birth control in case I get raped," patients tell Dr. Judith Simms-Cendan, a pediatric-adolescent gynecologist in Miami, where state law does not provide exceptions for rape or incest after 15 weeks.

This is something that the right doesn’t get.

They right does get it, you just don't agree with their position. All life is precious and should be protected no matter how it was conceived. A survey done on why women have abortions found the reason for abortion (https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/):

Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

So are the pro-life and pro-choice people at odds over 7.5% of abortions (meaning rape or health problems)? IMO, the other reasons women gave for having an abortion don't really rise to the level where I'm comfortable saying, "go ahead and kill the baby." According to the link I posted, in 2020, there were 930,160 abortions. If the 86% (added up the percentages from the chart above excluding rape, health problems and other) had used protection or practiced abstinence we could have reduced the number of abortions to ~176K (assuming a 98% effectiveness rate from condoms). Once you start getting the numbers down to those levels, I think abortions access makes more sense as a medical procedure. Abortions in the case of rape, health issues, ineffective contraception, you might get more people on the right to soften their stance on the abortion issue. When you want one for "not ready for a child", then they have issues.

Thanks for posting this. Now add to that that 85% of these abortions occur in the first 15 weeks. So "the right" is really up in arms about the small percentage of later term abortions that aren't due to medical issues...which is nearly zero

I wonder how many R’s are pro-life. I have no idea.

How do we define "pro-life" or "pro-choice"?

I would say the pro life are against it while pro choice want the option. Everything in the middle can be negotiated.

Ok. So I support an abortion ban at 10 weeks (emergency/health issues thereafter). So I'm pro-choice?

I'd say you're posturing at being pro-choice, but you really aren't. Average time for a woman to learn she's pregnant is 6-7 weeks. By cutting it off at 10 you're taking away choice for any woman who discovers her pregnancy late, and for all you are unreasonably limiting time to make a thoughtful decision and explore options. Move it to 15 weeks with an exception for health and you're reasonably pro-choice (odd to apply that term to Mississippi's law, but 15 weeks covers about 85% of abortions). Had the court just ruled on the case in front of it and upheld the Mississippi law instead of tossing out the entire implied right of privacy and ignoring 70+ years of precedent, I think that they would have had somewhere reasonable to go. Of course, some state would have immediately passed a heartbeat law or a conception law, but it would have been simple to just draw a bright line.

15 weeks isn't necessary. A majority already happen prior to 13 weeks. Would like to see the stats broken down even earlier.

CDCs Abortion Surveillance System FAQs | CDC

CDCs Abortion Surveillance System Frequently Asked Questions

www.cdc.gov

The majority of abortions in 2019 took place early in gestation: 92.7% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation; a smaller number of abortions (6.2%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and even fewer (<1.0%) were performed at ≥21 weeks’