Ryan Braun wins Appeal! (1 Viewer)

[MaxThreshold]

Do we know for sure they were synthetic testosterone?

Jesus ####### christ dude.

Excuse me for asking a simple question. I didn't know if it was reported that the testosterone was synthetic or if it was just speculation by those in this thread. But thanks anyway for your thoughtful input.

I've seen it reported in TV interviews that it was synthetic testosterone. I don't think this particular point is in doubt.Even though he shouldn't be suspended, because MLB didn't do everything they could to follow the process, it comes down to 2 options:

1) He's guilty

2) His sample was tampered with/replaced

In my opinion, it's impossible to believe #2, given the evidence.

Okay, I admit it. I replaced his sample with one of mine. The courier had a party at his house that weekend...

 

[BobbyLayne]

...

he shouldn't be suspended, because MLB didn't do everything they could to follow the process

...

Ironically, they did follow established protocol, which makes the ruling all the more mystifying.

Ryan Braun’s Drug Test Followed Established MLB Protocol, Collector Says

By Erik Matuszewski - Feb 28, 2012 5:07 PM ET

The man who collected Ryan Braun’s urine sample for Major League Baseball’s drug-testing program said he followed protocol and that recent criticism from the player and others has caused his family emotional distress.

Braun, the reigning National League Most Valuable Player, had a 50-game suspension for violating baseball’s drug rules overturned by an arbitration panel. The Milwaukee Brewers outfielder said the drug-testing process in his case was “fatally flawed” and that mistakes in handling his sample led to the failed test, not something he put in his body.

Dino Laurenzi Jr., who’s been collecting test samples for MLB since 2005, issued a statement today in response to the comments by Braun, the only major league player to successfully appeal a drug suspension.

“I followed the same procedure in collecting Mr. Braun’s sample as I did in the hundreds of other samples I collected under the program,” Laurenzi said in a statement distributed by MLB.

Braun’s lawyers focused their appeal on whether the player’s sample was delivered promptly to a laboratory after it was collected on Oct. 1. Collectors are instructed to deliver samples to a FedEx shipping center on the day of the test to preserve anonymity and ensure the urine isn’t contaminated or misplaced, Braun said at a news conference on Feb. 24.

“There were a lot of things we learned about the collector, the collection process, about the way the entire thing worked that made us very concerned and very suspicious,” Braun said.

Test Levels

The drug found in Braun’s system wasn’t identified by MLB. ESPN said it was synthetic testosterone, a muscle builder. Braun said that the MLB Players Association told him that his testosterone results were three times higher than any number in the history of drug testing.

Laurenzi said he collected samples from Braun and two other players on Oct. 1 following a playoff game, sealing Braun’s A and B samples with specially numbered tamper-resistant seals. The samples were placed in a sealed plastic bag, which went into a sealed cardboard specimen box, Laurenzi said. Those boxes then went into a FedEx shipping box, which Laurenzi said he took home because it was after 5 p.m. on a Saturday and there was no FedEx office within 50 miles that would ship packages that day or Sunday.

Laurenzi said Comprehensive Drug Testing had instructed collectors to safeguard samples in their homes until FedEx is able to immediately ship the sample to the laboratory, rather than having the samples sit for a day or more at a local office of the shipping company.

Rules Followed

“The protocol has been in place since 2005 when I started with CDT and there have been other occasions when I have had to store samples in my home for at least one day, all without incident,” Laurenzi said.

He said the samples never left his custody, remained sealed and were kept in a container in his home in a basement office, which he said is sufficiently cool to store urine.

Laurenzi said he didn’t tamper in any way with the samples, which were shipped out Oct. 3 and delivered to the laboratory the following day.

“It is my understanding that the samples were received at the laboratory with all tamper-resistant seals intact,” Laurenzi said. “This situation has caused great emotional distress for me and my family. I have worked hard my entire life, have performed my job duties with integrity and professionalism, and have done so with respect to this matter and all other collections in which I have participated".

 

[sho nuff]

The collector claims it was followed (really think he is the most reliable guy to go by here?)...the arbitrator in charge disagreed.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Ironically, they did follow established protocol, which makes the ruling all the more mystifying.

So there's a chance we really don't know what the hell is going on?

 

[Underachievers]

The collector claims it was followed (really think he is the most reliable guy to go by here?)...the arbitrator in charge disagreed.

No less reliable than Ryan Braun I would say.

 

[dparker713]

The collector claims it was followed (really think he is the most reliable guy to go by here?)...the arbitrator in charge disagreed.

No less reliable than Ryan Braun I would say.

THey both clearly have agendas in this matter. As does Manfred and really anyone leaking info. About the only one that doesn't appear to have an agenda would be the arbiter that cast the deciding vote, and we won't hear from him for a little while yet.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Ironically, they did follow established protocol, which makes the ruling all the more mystifying.

So there's a chance we really don't know what the hell is going on?

And we never will.

 

[Michael Brown]

The collector claims it was followed (really think he is the most reliable guy to go by here?)...the arbitrator in charge disagreed.

No less reliable than Ryan Braun I would say.

THey both clearly have agendas in this matter. As does Manfred and really anyone leaking info. About the only one that doesn't appear to have an agenda would be the arbiter that cast the deciding vote, and we won't hear from him for a little while yet.

I think I read somewhere that his written report doesn't have to be made public

 

[oneohh]

If Kemp had gotten the award like he should have I sincerely doubt we'd be witnessing this colossal goat#### of an ordeal. I apologize for nothing.

 

[Chairshot]

...

he shouldn't be suspended, because MLB didn't do everything they could to follow the process

...

Ironically, they did follow established protocol, which makes the ruling all the more mystifying.

I disagree that he followed the protocol in the sense that it was possible for him to ship the samples earlier, even if he didn't realize it.I personally don't feel that the way he did everything compromised the sample in any way. But since he could have done things better, Braun has a technical point that it's only fair to consider.

I don't think any of it makes Braun any less dirty. With the information we have right now, I think he's guilty. But I don't think he should be suspended, given the way things went down.

 

[TakiToki]

I'd bet that he's a juicer. What frightens me, though, is how certain many are.

 

[Witz]

Do we know for sure they were synthetic testosterone?

Jesus ####### christ dude.

Excuse me for asking a simple question. I didn't know if it was reported that the testosterone was synthetic or if it was just speculation by those in this thread. But thanks anyway for your thoughtful input.

I've seen it reported in TV interviews that it was synthetic testosterone. I don't think this particular point is in doubt.Even though he shouldn't be suspended, because MLB didn't do everything they could to follow the process, it comes down to 2 options:

1) He's guilty

2) His sample was tampered with/replaced

In my opinion, it's impossible to believe #2, given the evidence.

Seems like the only folks who reported that it was synthetic testosterone was EPSN (and folks who went with ESPN's report). MLB didn't state he tested positive for synthetic testosterone nor did Braun's camp state he tested positive for synthetic testosterone.

 

[Chairshot]

Do we know for sure they were synthetic testosterone?

Jesus ####### christ dude.

Excuse me for asking a simple question. I didn't know if it was reported that the testosterone was synthetic or if it was just speculation by those in this thread. But thanks anyway for your thoughtful input.

I've seen it reported in TV interviews that it was synthetic testosterone. I don't think this particular point is in doubt.Even though he shouldn't be suspended, because MLB didn't do everything they could to follow the process, it comes down to 2 options:

1) He's guilty

2) His sample was tampered with/replaced

In my opinion, it's impossible to believe #2, given the evidence.

Seems like the only folks who reported that it was synthetic testosterone was EPSN (and folks who went with ESPN's report). MLB didn't state he tested positive for synthetic testosterone nor did Braun's camp state he tested positive for synthetic testosterone.

Everyone is working from sources right now, tho a quick search seems to show that SI.com confirmed things, as well. Local paper reported it as well. Sports Illustrated

In December, SI.com confirmed that Braun's sample was found to have an elevated level of testosterone, and that it tested positive for synthetic testosterone.

JS Online

The test result showed an unusually high level of synthetic testosterone, though the substance that triggered it has not been revealed.

It's fair enough to say that nothing official has been confirmed. For that matter, I'm not sure either side has actually publicly confirmed that there even is a failed test.I'm just saying, at this point (and who knows as new information continues to come out), it seems pretty much understood that there was synthetic testosterone in his system.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Everyone thinks he cheated, but maybe he is just 20-30 times more manly than the rest of men.

 

[Monkeyface Prickleback]

Ironically, they did follow established protocol, which makes the ruling all the more mystifying.

So there's a chance we really don't know what the hell is going on?

And we never will.

If it makes you feel better, sure. Go Brew Crew!

 

[Johnnymac]

Braun should have never gone in front of the media and started pointing fingers at MLB and the collector of the sample. Makes him look like more of an idiot. I have less than zero respect for this guy.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Ironically, they did follow established protocol, which makes the ruling all the more mystifying.

So there's a chance we really don't know what the hell is going on?

And we never will.

If it makes you feel better, sure. Go Brew Crew!

Doesn't make me feel better but if you think you know everything about the case then I'm sure you're mistaken. I know it's hard for some here to grasp but sometimes you just don't know it all....Go Phills!

 

[sho nuff]

The collector claims it was followed (really think he is the most reliable guy to go by here?)...the arbitrator in charge disagreed.

No less reliable than Ryan Braun I would say.

Braun has the backing of the arbitration hearing that ruled protocol was not followed.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I find it difficult impossible to believe that there are actually people out there who TRULY believe Braun didn't get caught with his hand in the cookie jar here....

Just look at the locations of people who are in denial. It's not Egypt.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

MVP

 

[Softballguy]

MVP

 

[sho nuff]

Yeah...so much for the huge dropoff in his performance after the testing...

Though...could see them giving it to Posey because of the test last year plus SF being a better team.

 

[Limp Ditka]

MVP

That would be Buster Posey.

 

[Goat Herders]

Yeah...so much for the huge dropoff in his performance after the testing...Though...could see them giving it to Posey because of the test last year plus SF being a better team.

Or because posey was the more valuable player this year. That would be a good reason too.

 

[Softballguy]

MVP

That would be Buster Posey.

Only if you discredit Braun for his over-turned suspension. I wouldn't blame you if you did, I guess.

 

[sho nuff]

Yeah...so much for the huge dropoff in his performance after the testing...Though...could see them giving it to Posey because of the test last year plus SF being a better team.

Or because posey was the more valuable player this year. That would be a good reason too.

Based on what?I think Braun was pretty valuable to his team and put up numbers comparable to what he did in an MVP last year.And this year did it without Fielder.I think both were quite good and think Posey may get it...but saying one is more valuable is pretty debatable.

 

[Limp Ditka]

MVP

That would be Buster Posey.

Only if you discredit Braun for his over-turned suspension. I wouldn't blame you if you did, I guess.

Posey has a better WAR, plays a more important position and wasn't surrounded by the team that led it's league in HR, Runs, RBI

 

[Softballguy]

MVP

That would be Buster Posey.

Only if you discredit Braun for his over-turned suspension. I wouldn't blame you if you did, I guess.

Posey has a better WAR, plays a more important position and wasn't surrounded by the team that led it's league in HR, Runs, RBI

Their WAR are nearly identical, but Braun's offensive numbers are much better when you look at wOBA and wRC+, so you can't discredit Braun's league leading hitting based on his teammates.I guess if you think being a catcher gives you that much of a boost you can say Posey is the MVP, but then you have to consider Molina as well since he's a much better defensive catcher than Posey yet still put up outstanding numbers.

 

[tommy300]

Braun's numbers:

Batting Average - .319, 3rd in NL

Hits - 191, 2nd in NL

Runs - 108, 1st in NL

Doubles - 36, T14 in NL

Home Runs - 41, 1st in NL

X-tra base hits - 80, T1 in NL

Runs Batted In - 112, 2nd in NL

On Base % - .391, 3rd in NL

Slugging - .595, 1st in NL

OPS - .987, 1st in NL

Stolen Bases - 30, T9 in NL

Hard for anyone to say he didn't have one hell of a year...

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@JeffPassan: BREAKING: Ryan Braun's name is in Biogenesis records and MLB will investigate his association with PED clinic. News: http://t.co/Z8jvz8X8

 

[Maude]

@JeffPassan: BREAKING: Ryan Braun's name is in Biogenesis records and MLB will investigate his association with PED clinic. News: http://t.co/Z8jvz8X8

SHOCKING!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mario Kart]

@JeffPassan: BREAKING: Ryan Braun's name is in Biogenesis records and MLB will investigate his association with PED clinic. News: http://t.co/Z8jvz8X8

MLB is planting this info. Complete sham.

 

[shadyridr]

@JeffPassan: BREAKING: Ryan Braun's name is in Biogenesis records and MLB will investigate his association with PED clinic. News: http://t.co/Z8jvz8X8

MLB is planting this info. Complete sham.

Yep bringing down their own superstars is definitely good for the game

 

[Warrior]

Worthless cheat. Throw the book at him.

 

[KingPrawn]

According to Braun, his attorneys used Bosh as a consultant during his appeal.Points in Braun's favor:Other players have the substance listed after their name, Braun does not.Why would Braun's attorney's name also appear on the list? Was he also a user?

 

[Aerial Assault]

Why would Braun's attorney's name also appear on the list? Was he also a user?

The more significant the case, the heavier that briefcase. I can definitely see the upside of some juicing in this context.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Worthless cheat. Throw the book at him.

Really hope this turd finally gets nailed.

 

[dparker713]

@JeffPassan: BREAKING: Ryan Braun's name is in Biogenesis records and MLB will investigate his association with PED clinic. News: http://t.co/Z8jvz8X8

MLB is planting this info. Complete sham.

If there were records that attached Braun to PEDs from this place, why didn't that come out in the original story? He's certainly a bigger name than Melky or Gio. His explanations seems atleast as likely as anything else atm.

 

[Anarchy99]

I don't quite understand why the player(s) or the establishment(s) use people's real names for record keeping. Is no one smart enough to use an alias? Or is Michael Vick the only one with enough sense to go Ron Mexico?

 

[SacramentoBob]

I don't quite understand why the player(s) or the establishment(s) use people's real names for record keeping. Is no one smart enough to use an alias? Or is Michael Vick the only one with enough sense to go Ron Mexico?

#####, is you taking notes on a criminal ####### conspiracy?

 

[irish eyes]

Braun is a scumbag, he has Lance Armstrong disease.

 

[JuniorNB]

Braun is a scumbag, he has Lance Armstrong disease.

There will still be people defending him and trying to convince anyone who will listen that he is clean.

 

[Jaysus]

Worthless cheat. Throw the book at him.

Really hope this turd finally gets nailed.

Why?

 

[irish eyes]

Worthless cheat. Throw the book at him.

Really hope this turd finally gets nailed.

Why?

Because he is a scumbag lying cheater.

 

[Jaysus]

Worthless cheat. Throw the book at him.

Really hope this turd finally gets nailed.

Why?

Because he is a scumbag lying cheater.

Allegedly... and so what?

 

[Tom Servo]

According to Braun, his attorneys used Bosh as a consultant during his appeal.Points in Braun's favor:Other players have the substance listed after their name, Braun does not.Why would Braun's attorney's name also appear on the list? Was he also a user?

So why is his name in the book?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

According to Braun, his attorneys used Bosh as a consultant during his appeal.Points in Braun's favor:Other players have the substance listed after their name, Braun does not.Why would Braun's attorney's name also appear on the list? Was he also a user?

So why is his name in the book?

According to Braun, his attorneys used Bosh as a consultant during his appeal.

 

[Abraham]

According to Braun, his attorneys used Bosh as a consultant during his appeal.Points in Braun's favor:Other players have the substance listed after their name, Braun does not.Why would Braun's attorney's name also appear on the list? Was he also a user?

So why is his name in the book?

They were consulting with him! They owed him money! (Nevermind that they didn't disclose this to MLB during the appeal. Don't you think it would have been wise to say, "We are consulting with someone who is probably on the other side of the line on PEDs. We are using him for his technical knowledge and nothing more.")

 

[strykerpks]

According to Braun, his attorneys used Bosh as a consultant during his appeal.Points in Braun's favor:Other players have the substance listed after their name, Braun does not.Why would Braun's attorney's name also appear on the list? Was he also a user?

So why is his name in the book?

They were consulting with him! They owed him money! (Nevermind that they didn't disclose this to MLB during the appeal. Don't you think it would have been wise to say, "We are consulting with someone who is probably on the other side of the line on PEDs. We are using him for his technical knowledge and nothing more.")

My link

The law treats behind-the-scenes experts quite differently from testifying experts. The work of behind-the-scenes experts, or consultants, is considered confidential and within the ambit of the attorney-client privilege and attorney work-product privilege. Lawyers rely on consulting experts to test theories and potential approaches to the case without fear that the consultant’s identity, advice, opinions, and conclusions will be disclosed to the parties and lawyers on the other side of the case. Testifying experts are not cloaked in the same level of privilege and confidentiality. In order to qualify as a testifying expert, the witness must establish her expertise in the subject matter in dispute. After that, she must explain the facts and documents she relied on to form her opinions, any experiments she conducted, her conversations with the retaining attorney, and any other basis for her opinions. Lawyers for the opposing parties are entitled to cross-examine the expert.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

According to Braun, his attorneys used Bosh as a consultant during his appeal.Points in Braun's favor:Other players have the substance listed after their name, Braun does not.Why would Braun's attorney's name also appear on the list? Was he also a user?

So why is his name in the book?

They were consulting with him! They owed him money! (Nevermind that they didn't disclose this to MLB during the appeal. Don't you think it would have been wise to say, "We are consulting with someone who is probably on the other side of the line on PEDs. We are using him for his technical knowledge and nothing more.")

Do we know what was disclosed in the appeal? I would be interested to see the written submissions but did not think they would be available. I've never even seen the written decision or ruling from the arbitrator from the suspension case last year.