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Sam Bankman-Fried (SBF) debacle with FTX (1 Viewer)

What do you think about reporter sharing the DMs in public?


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Michael Lewis is still doubling down. His latest podcast is an interview with a law professor where the pair are trying to criticize the FTX bankruptcy administrators for cooperating in SBF's prosecution. For some reason I find Lewis's quest to light his hard-won journalistic credibility on fire to be fascinating.
 
Michael Lewis is still doubling down. His latest podcast is an interview with a law professor where the pair are trying to criticize the FTX bankruptcy administrators for cooperating in SBF's prosecution. For some reason I find Lewis's quest to light his hard-won journalistic credibility on fire to be fascinating.
Listening to this now. Had the same thoughts.
 
I've gone from eagerly looking forward to reading this book, to having no interest in reading it, and now I don't think I want to ever read Lewis again such is the utter self-destruction we've witnessed over the past year.
 
I've gone from eagerly looking forward to reading this book, to having no interest in reading it, and now I don't think I want to ever read Lewis again such is the utter self-destruction we've witnessed over the past year.
I really like Lewis and will still read his future works. But he clearly has allowed himself to be snowed over by this guy. Too bad.
 
SBF attorney with a real tear jerker of a speech here: (from that thread above)

Mukasey: Madoff stole from Holocaust survivors. That is not Sam. He did not want to personally inflict pain on anyone in any way. Sam was not a ruthless financial serial killer. He wasn't predatory. He makes decisions with math in his head, not malice in his heart
Mukasey: His mom says he is misunderstood. It is easy to slot people into an old fashioned story of the greedy swindler... Sam never scurried away with money. He stayed to the end. He'll tell you more how much it means to him that people get repaid.
Mukasey: He's an awkward math nerd. He's into veganism. He has an off the chart intellect. He is a beautiful puzzle. He can parse words better than a Talmudic scholar. He was a billionaire unconcerned about material possessions


Fantastic

https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1773355981071659025
 
SBF attorney with a real tear jerker of a speech here: (from that thread above)

Mukasey: Madoff stole from Holocaust survivors. That is not Sam. He did not want to personally inflict pain on anyone in any way. Sam was not a ruthless financial serial killer. He wasn't predatory. He makes decisions with math in his head, not malice in his heart
Mukasey: His mom says he is misunderstood. It is easy to slot people into an old fashioned story of the greedy swindler... Sam never scurried away with money. He stayed to the end. He'll tell you more how much it means to him that people get repaid.
Mukasey: He's an awkward math nerd. He's into veganism. He has an off the chart intellect. He is a beautiful puzzle. He can parse words better than a Talmudic scholar. He was a billionaire unconcerned about material possessions


Fantastic

https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1773355981071659025
I would add ten years just for this.
 
AUSA Roos and the judge, the real haymakers they have both landed have just been direct quotes from SBF.

My favorite:

AUSA Roos: You have the defendant's cost / benefit analysis which would allow him to do it again. If Mr. Bankman Fried thought mathematics justified it, he'd do it again. Today he spoke about mismanagement, a "painful few weeks" - no acceptance of responsibility


Exactly.

https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1773367960117133802
 
I'll guess an even 20. The fact that recovery was so high matters some (unlike Madoff, etc.). That Anthropic investment was the luckiest thing ever for FTX.
 
Unfortunately, the old saw about "the harsher the speech by the judge, the more lenient the sentence is going to be" seems to have been confirmed again.

I don't do criminal law at all, but in civil cases when a judge is ruling from the bench its always a good sign when he starts out speaking favorably about the other side's position. Its a dead giveaway that a "however ..." is coming.
 
Unfortunately, the old saw about "the harsher the speech by the judge, the more lenient the sentence is going to be" seems to have been confirmed again.
25 years is lenient?
Yes. He could have gotten 100
That seems overly long for a non-violent crime. I'm all for putting white collar financial criminals behind bars, but anything over 25 years is probably too long unless there's violence involved.
 
Which Fed prison is he going to? Max security, Medium security, or country club Wolf of Wall street digs?
I'm sure he'll probably land at a prison camp. That seems fine to me.

The reason why I want a long sentence for this guy is because of the severity of the crime, his continued insistence on digging in, and frankly his potential for recidivism. I know that last part sounds crazy, but this guy has the ability to persuade professional journalists to torch their careers on his behalf, even after his arrest. Throw away the key.
 
Here comes the application for a Fed prison with rehab treatment for addiction......
What's he addicted to? Profits and grifting?

IMO, his lawyers will concoct something. Pills, molly, booze, it doesn't matter, but they'll come up with something. It's a ploy a lot of the white collar criminals use to shave time. If you enter into a treatment program at a fed facility and successfully complete it, you can reduce your sentence by blaming your criminal behavior as a result of substance abuse and now that you're clean and sober, you no longer pose a danger. There's a fed prison in Oregon that houses a bunch of white collar criminals like Sam. A bunch of them have been featured on CNBC's "American Greed". This fed facility is one of the few that offers addiction treatment, so these guys try to go there, get into the program, shave time.
 
Apparently he may be eligible for release after 12.5 years. Ridiculous. And the judge recommended a medium security prison.
 
Which Fed prison is he going to? Max security, Medium security, or country club Wolf of Wall street digs?
I'm sure he'll probably land at a prison camp. That seems fine to me.

The reason why I want a long sentence for this guy is because of the severity of the crime, his continued insistence on digging in, and frankly his potential for recidivism. I know that last part sounds crazy, but this guy has the ability to persuade professional journalists to torch their careers on his behalf, even after his arrest. Throw away the key.

The judge specifically noted the likelihood of him reoffending as one of the reasons for giving him 25 years, as if the 25 years was a LONG sentence for his crimes.
 
Unfortunately, the old saw about "the harsher the speech by the judge, the more lenient the sentence is going to be" seems to have been confirmed again.
25 years is lenient?
Yes. He could have gotten 100
That seems overly long for a non-violent crime. I'm all for putting white collar financial criminals behind bars, but anything over 25 years is probably too long unless there's violence involved.
Your instincts are correct. People can gripe all they want on an absolute basis about white-collar crime sentences, but on a relative basis the SBF sentence is on the heavier side compared to other notables.

Bernie Madoff - 150 yrs
Sam Bankman-Fried - 25 yrs
Bernie Ebbers, Worldcom CEO - 25 yrs
Jeffrey Skilling, Enron President - 24 yrs (reduced to 14 yrs)
Elizabeth Holmes, Theranos CEO - 11 yrs, 3 mos
Michael Milken, junk bond king - 22 mos
Martha Stewart - 5 mos

Source: WSJ
 
Unfortunately, the old saw about "the harsher the speech by the judge, the more lenient the sentence is going to be" seems to have been confirmed again.
25 years is lenient?
Yes. He could have gotten 100
That seems overly long for a non-violent crime. I'm all for putting white collar financial criminals behind bars, but anything over 25 years is probably too long unless there's violence involved.
Your instincts are correct. People can gripe all they want on an absolute basis about white-collar crime sentences, but on a relative basis the SBF sentence is on the heavier side compared to other notables.

Bernie Madoff - 150 yrs
Sam Bankman-Fried - 25 yrs
Jeffrey Skilling, Enron President - 24 yrs (reduced to 14 yrs)
Elizabeth Holmes, Theranos CEO - 11 yrs, 3 mos
Martha Stewart - 5 mos

Source: WSJ
To be fair, Martha Stewart doesn't belong on this list. She didn't do anything terribly wrong, unlike these other folks.

I agree that sentences like this should be outliers, but people like SBF and Skilling seem like pretty candidates for the getting the "outlier" treatment.
 
To be fair, Martha Stewart doesn't belong on this list. She didn't do anything terribly wrong, unlike these other folks.

I agree that sentences like this should be outliers, but people like SBF and Skilling seem like pretty candidates for the getting the "outlier" treatment.
It's a list of notable white collar criminals.

Martha Stewart was guilty of conspiracy, obstruction of justice and lying to the FBI and SEC. As well as settling a securities fraud civil case with the SEC outside of court.

Her crimes were not as egregious as the others, hence the lower sentence.
 
Why are people in here acting like 25 years isn’t a long period of time? That’s a third the average male lifespan. That’s more than enough for nonviolent. We have been conditioned to accept insane prison sentences in this country.
 
Why are people in here acting like 25 years isn’t a long period of time? That’s a third the average male lifespan. That’s more than enough for nonviolent. We have been conditioned to accept insane prison sentences in this country.
Because he’s not doing 25, it will be much lighter. He will use his influential parents and people he donated to to help get out sooner: Eight Billion is nothing to sneeze at.

I don’t know why he got 25 while the Enron guy got 100+, what is the difference?
 
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He'll do well in prison.

He will not be going to  that kind of prison.
He'll be fine in prison, and to be clear, he should be fine. I would have supported a life sentence for SBF, because people like him should be removed from society for the benefit of the rest of us. But there's no need for him to be treated cruelly while he's incarcerated. A federal prison camp is the right place for this type of inmate.
 
Unfortunately, the old saw about "the harsher the speech by the judge, the more lenient the sentence is going to be" seems to have been confirmed again.
25 years is lenient?
Yes. He could have gotten 100
That seems overly long for a non-violent crime. I'm all for putting white collar financial criminals behind bars, but anything over 25 years is probably too long unless there's violence involved.
Your instincts are correct. People can gripe all they want on an absolute basis about white-collar crime sentences, but on a relative basis the SBF sentence is on the heavier side compared to other notables.

Bernie Madoff - 150 yrs
Sam Bankman-Fried - 25 yrs
Bernie Ebbers, Worldcom CEO - 25 yrs
Jeffrey Skilling, Enron President - 24 yrs (reduced to 14 yrs)
Elizabeth Holmes, Theranos CEO - 11 yrs, 3 mos
Michael Milken, junk bond king - 22 mos
Martha Stewart - 5 mos

Source: WSJ

Wow I didn't follow the Elizabeth Holmes trial, how did she only get 11 years? Hers was even worse, imo.
 
Why are people in here acting like 25 years isn’t a long period of time? That’s a third the average male lifespan. That’s more than enough for nonviolent. We have been conditioned to accept insane prison sentences in this country.

Because 25 most likely means 12 right off the bat and with influence, money, good behavior and loopholes like addiction treatment available to shave time, 10 is most likely the actual number.

He wiped out people's life savings. He stole from people who are now left with a gaping hole in their financial futures. You don't see how some might find this a touch too lenient given the severity of his crimes and his attempt to cover it up? Or the fact that he cashed out and enriched his friends and family with other people's hard earned money?
 
He'll do well in prison.

He will not be going to  that kind of prison.
He'll be fine in prison, and to be clear, he should be fine. I would have supported a life sentence for SBF, because people like him should be removed from society for the benefit of the rest of us. But there's no need for him to be treated cruelly while he's incarcerated. A federal prison camp is the right place for this type of inmate.

I think what's really going to anger folks is that he will get out and he will get a chance to do this all over again in his late 40s or early 50s. The Fyre Festival guy got out of prison and you'll NEVER guess what he's organizing (and selling) right now.
 

Wow I didn't follow the Elizabeth Holmes trial, how did she only get 11 years? Hers was even worse, imo.
Reduced to 9

Disgraced entrepreneur Elizabeth Holmes, who was convicted of fraud linked to her blood-testing lab Theranos, had her prison sentence reduced by two years, the Bureau of Prisons website shows, but she has to earn the reduction.

An update to her profile on the Bureau of Prisons website lists her release date as Dec. 29, 2032, which means her 11-year and 3-month prison sentence has been reduced to nine years.

However, they noted that, generally speaking, inmates can have their sentence reduced for good conduct and completing programs for rehabilitation and substance abuse.

 
I think what's really going to anger folks is that he will get out and he will get a chance to do this all over again in his late 40s or early 50s.
I'm annoyed that someone who ruined a lot of people's financial situations is somehow better than someone who commits an act of violence against one person. So his sentence shouldn't be as harsh. This is a stupid rule everyone agreed to.

And that person, who harmed thousands of people, somehow deserves to be in a country club prison.
 
Why are people in here acting like 25 years isn’t a long period of time? That’s a third the average male lifespan. That’s more than enough for nonviolent. We have been conditioned to accept insane prison sentences in this country.

Because 25 most likely means 12 right off the bat and with influence, money, good behavior and loopholes like addiction treatment available to shave time, 10 is most likely the actual number.

He wiped out people's life savings. He stole from people who are now left with a gaping hole in their financial futures. You don't see how some might find this a touch too lenient given the severity of his crimes and his attempt to cover it up? Or the fact that he cashed out and enriched his friends and family with other people's hard earned money?
I think he’s scum but if he serves 25 that’s fit. You are making assumptions on when he will get out. All we know now is he is sentenced to 25.
 
Why are people in here acting like 25 years isn’t a long period of time? That’s a third the average male lifespan. That’s more than enough for nonviolent. We have been conditioned to accept insane prison sentences in this country.

Because 25 most likely means 12 right off the bat and with influence, money, good behavior and loopholes like addiction treatment available to shave time, 10 is most likely the actual number.

He wiped out people's life savings. He stole from people who are now left with a gaping hole in their financial futures. You don't see how some might find this a touch too lenient given the severity of his crimes and his attempt to cover it up? Or the fact that he cashed out and enriched his friends and family with other people's hard earned money?
I think he’s scum but if he serves 25 that’s fit. You are making assumptions on when he will get out. All we know now is he is sentenced to 25.

Buddy, these aren't assumptions. You know it, I know it. It's how the game is played. 25 doesn't mean 25. Not even close. That's based on decades of data. That's a problem for some, including myself.
 
Why are people in here acting like 25 years isn’t a long period of time? That’s a third the average male lifespan. That’s more than enough for nonviolent. We have been conditioned to accept insane prison sentences in this country.

Because 25 most likely means 12 right off the bat and with influence, money, good behavior and loopholes like addiction treatment available to shave time, 10 is most likely the actual number.

He wiped out people's life savings. He stole from people who are now left with a gaping hole in their financial futures. You don't see how some might find this a touch too lenient given the severity of his crimes and his attempt to cover it up? Or the fact that he cashed out and enriched his friends and family with other people's hard earned money?
I think he’s scum but if he serves 25 that’s fit. You are making assumptions on when he will get out. All we know now is he is sentenced to 25.

Buddy, these aren't assumptions. You know it, I know it. It's how the game is played. 25 doesn't mean 25. Not even close. That's based on decades of data. That's a problem for some, including myself.
Not a snowball's chance in hell he serves anywhere close to 25. I'd probably be ok if he served 25 years but as the esteemed Malaise states, no way that happens. Delude yourself if you like but he's out in 12 or less.
 
Why are people in here acting like 25 years isn’t a long period of time? That’s a third the average male lifespan. That’s more than enough for nonviolent. We have been conditioned to accept insane prison sentences in this country.

Because 25 most likely means 12 right off the bat and with influence, money, good behavior and loopholes like addiction treatment available to shave time, 10 is most likely the actual number.

He wiped out people's life savings. He stole from people who are now left with a gaping hole in their financial futures. You don't see how some might find this a touch too lenient given the severity of his crimes and his attempt to cover it up? Or the fact that he cashed out and enriched his friends and family with other people's hard earned money?
I think he’s scum but if he serves 25 that’s fit. You are making assumptions on when he will get out. All we know now is he is sentenced to 25.

Buddy, these aren't assumptions. You know it, I know it. It's how the game is played. 25 doesn't mean 25. Not even close. That's based on decades of data. That's a problem for some, including myself.
Not a snowball's chance in hell he serves anywhere close to 25. I'd probably be ok if he served 25 years but as the esteemed Malaise states, no way that happens. Delude yourself if you like but he's out in 12 or less.
He probably won't, and that would be unfortunate, but you can’t sentence somebody to 50 years for a 25 year crime on the assumption they’ll get out in half the time.
 
Why are people in here acting like 25 years isn’t a long period of time? That’s a third the average male lifespan. That’s more than enough for nonviolent. We have been conditioned to accept insane prison sentences in this country.

Because 25 most likely means 12 right off the bat and with influence, money, good behavior and loopholes like addiction treatment available to shave time, 10 is most likely the actual number.

He wiped out people's life savings. He stole from people who are now left with a gaping hole in their financial futures. You don't see how some might find this a touch too lenient given the severity of his crimes and his attempt to cover it up? Or the fact that he cashed out and enriched his friends and family with other people's hard earned money?
I think he’s scum but if he serves 25 that’s fit. You are making assumptions on when he will get out. All we know now is he is sentenced to 25.

Buddy, these aren't assumptions. You know it, I know it. It's how the game is played. 25 doesn't mean 25. Not even close. That's based on decades of data. That's a problem for some, including myself.
Not a snowball's chance in hell he serves anywhere close to 25. I'd probably be ok if he served 25 years but as the esteemed Malaise states, no way that happens. Delude yourself if you like but he's out in 12 or less.
Lol you don’t have to be a prick with the delude yourself statement. I know exactly how the system works. It’ll suck if he serves less than 25 but that’s the way it goes.
 
Why are people in here acting like 25 years isn’t a long period of time? That’s a third the average male lifespan. That’s more than enough for nonviolent. We have been conditioned to accept insane prison sentences in this country.

Because 25 most likely means 12 right off the bat and with influence, money, good behavior and loopholes like addiction treatment available to shave time, 10 is most likely the actual number.

He wiped out people's life savings. He stole from people who are now left with a gaping hole in their financial futures. You don't see how some might find this a touch too lenient given the severity of his crimes and his attempt to cover it up? Or the fact that he cashed out and enriched his friends and family with other people's hard earned money?
I think he’s scum but if he serves 25 that’s fit. You are making assumptions on when he will get out. All we know now is he is sentenced to 25.

Buddy, these aren't assumptions. You know it, I know it. It's how the game is played. 25 doesn't mean 25. Not even close. That's based on decades of data. That's a problem for some, including myself.
Not a snowball's chance in hell he serves anywhere close to 25. I'd probably be ok if he served 25 years but as the esteemed Malaise states, no way that happens. Delude yourself if you like but he's out in 12 or less.
Lol you don’t have to be a prick with the delude yourself statement. I know exactly how the system works. It’ll suck if he serves less than 25 but that’s the way it goes.
lol @ being called a prick for using the word delude.
 
I have an acquaintance that had crypto staked with SBF. He's currently expecting to get 80% back, but he said his crypto would be up 400% if he still had it.
 

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