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Squeegee workers are being threatened on the job (1 Viewer)

Should people be allowed to approach you in traffic, touch/spray your car, ask for money in exchange

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • No

    Votes: 35 97.2%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    36

Caveman33

Footballguy
I think this story highlights the divide between MSM and the general public.  The journalists call them squeegee workers, while many would call them stick up kids.  Even in the picture included in the first link, the lady looks like she is paying a toll at a checkpoint.  "1. Stare straight ahead. 2. Offer money  3. Pray they don't damage you or your car."  The NY Times ran with that headline saying the man swung bat, but other articles say allegedly, based on the word of the other squeegee workers who, of course, have not given the police any information that would enable them to apprehend the shooter.

Micheal Augins, a 17-year-old squeegee worker at Lombard and President streets downtown also didn’t want to be associated with the workers at the shooting scene, saying some of them were known for being aggressive. He had seen someone there pull windshield wipers off a vehicle.

Still, Micheal believes both the squeegee worker and the driver from Thursday’s altercation were in the wrong.
Tension, distrust and threats follow Baltimore squeegee workers after fatal confrontation with driver downtown

Man Who Swung Bat at Squeegee Workers in Baltimore Is Fatally Shot

 
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3 kids, engineer, John Hopkins. Why would you go after someone with a bat?  Curious to see which way the “stand your ground” crowd goes. 

 
3 kids, engineer, John Hopkins. Why would you go after someone with a bat?  Curious to see which way the “stand your ground” crowd goes. 
It was a horrible decision on his part but maybe not that surprising.  Have you seen how people react to bumper magnets being put on their cars after not returning shopping carts?  In this case, the guy is likely trying to go to/from work and then kids are suddenly smearing his windshield and demanding money.  If he doesn't pay or god forbid says something impolite, they snap his windshield wipers.  

 
Squeegee workers 🤣.  It’s a grift rooted in intimidation, should be illegal.
When I first saw the headlines, I thought there was a confrontation involving those high rise window cleaners.  Then I read and was like, oh yea, modern liberal journalism.  Squeegee worker is humorous enough that I could see the right wing sarcastically adopting the term.

 
https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/community/criminal-justice/baltimore-squeegee-shooting-video-timothy-reynolds-shot-dashcam-footage-shows-MMDHJ7UYN5F3ZK2TITKLFO6HOE/

This article provided more details:

"Eyewitness accounts and preliminary statements from police indicated that Reynolds drove through the intersection at Light and Conway streets. He parked on the Inner Harbor side of Light Street, got out of his car and crossed eight lanes of traffic carrying a baseball bat.

The 45-second video clip, which was also described in a police report, does not show the 48-year-old Hampden man’s initial approach of the workers. It picks up with Reynolds walking away from the intersection. As he walks away, he points the bat at three squeegee workers, who are following him from about 20 feet away.

Reynolds walks in front of a car and out of view when the squeegee workers “seemingly surround him,” according to description of the video detailed in a police report. It’s unclear what happens in front of the car but the workers can be seen moving in towards him.

Reynolds can be seen swinging the bat while running towards them. One squeegee worker appears to strike Reynolds in the head while Reynolds has the bat raised toward another worker. Three seconds later, that person pulled out a gun and started firing at Reynolds.

One shot can be heard followed by four more in succession.

A police report describing the video says that Reynolds “stumbles after being hit in the head with the rock and appears to become disoriented.“ That’s when the squeegee worker began shooting, while running away."

If anyone comes across video, they should post it.  I couldn't find anything in a youtube search.  From the description of the dashcam video, it sounds like Reynolds was walking away from the squeegee workers with at least 3 following him.  This is presumably after he threatened a larger group with the bat.  He then walked back towards his car with a few following.  The workers moved in closer and then Reynolds charged with his bat.  He is hit from behind while wielding the bat at another worker who then draws a gun and shoots at Reynolds 5 times.  Reynolds may have also been hit with a rock.

 
There is no divide between the MSM and the general public. The MSM informs and reflects the views of the general public. 
 

There is a divide between the MSM and about 40% of the population, mostly conservatives. That’s too large a percentage but it’s still a minority. I believe that the fault for this is about 20% on the MSM, and 80% on conservatives. 

 
It was a horrible decision on his part but maybe not that surprising.  Have you seen how people react to bumper magnets being put on their cars after not returning shopping carts?  In this case, the guy is likely trying to go to/from work and then kids are suddenly smearing his windshield and demanding money.  If he doesn't pay or god forbid says something impolite, they snap his windshield wipers.  


3 kids, engineer, John Hopkins. Why would you go after someone with a bat?  Curious to see which way the “stand your ground” crowd goes. 
What is your opinion on the squeegee worker's "stand your ground" case?  Self defense or murder?  (Until it's known otherwise, for the question's sake let's assume the worker is under 18 and the gun is not legal for him.)

On reflection, it may be revealing that your immediate reaction was to question Reynolds decision making and ponder the reaction of NRA types, whereas I suggested Reynolds was on his way to/from work.  (I think I was influenced by your description of 3 kids, engineer, John Hopkins, though, cause the only picture I saw of him made me think he was a hot-headed drinker.  The article I just posted gave more details and included this regarding Reynold's background:

Reynolds’ Twitter account includes a 2019 post in which he complained about squeegee workers at the very same stretch of Conway. The post included a picture of debris and soapy water that appears to have been squeegeed to the side of his car windshield.

“This is what was left on my window after a squeegee kid washed my window while I was telling him not to do it. Then stared at me threateningly with my 11-year-old son in the car,” the post reads. “These kids have no right to be out in traffic.”

 
On the specific topic: I don’t like these guys either. I do find them intimidating, and so wouldn’t mind if the practice was made illegal. 

But of course the root of the problem is the lack of employment in the inner cities of this country, and that is mainly because we as a society have neglected these people, failed to provide them proper education and economic opportunity to succeed in the marketplace. 

 
There is no divide between the MSM and the general public. The MSM informs and reflects the views of the general public. 
 

There is a divide between the MSM and about 40% of the population, mostly conservatives. That’s too large a percentage but it’s still a minority. I believe that the fault for this is about 20% on the MSM, and 80% on conservatives. 
Maybe there is some truth to what you are saying, but in this case I believe that 60%+ of people would say that squeegee workers are intimidation salesmen at best and do not support the behavior.  This description of them as squeegee workers is comical, and somewhat alarming that a small segment of people would try to normalize this behavior.

 
Maybe there is some truth to what you are saying, but in this case I believe that 60%+ of people would say that squeegee workers are intimidation salesmen at best and do not support the behavior.  This description of them as squeegee workers is comical, and somewhat alarming that a small segment of people would try to normalize this behavior.
I don’t see it that way. The article is simply trying to be fair and neutral. To call these guys intimidating would be expressing an opinion- it’s an opinion I happen to agree with, but that’s not what a news article is supposed to do. 

 
🤣 unreal right?  “Workers.”

We have serious problems in this country, and they won’t be solved by the MSM trying to gaslight us all.
Nor will they be solved by trying to take matters into our own hands and threatening violence.

The squeegee stuff is intimidation for sure…and should be made legal.  Report it by legal means.  Taking a bat to threaten them was a monumentally bad decision and the guy paid for it with his left.

Just awful all around here.

 
On the specific topic: I don’t like these guys either. I do find them intimidating, and so wouldn’t mind if the practice was made illegal. 

But of course the root of the problem is the lack of employment in the inner cities of this country, and that is mainly because we as a society have neglected these people, failed to provide them proper education and economic opportunity to succeed in the marketplace. 


I would add it is because we dump "feel good" money into these areas without follow-up and accountability with how the $ is used...it is so easy to write a check or approve of a spending bill in your beautiful home (not talking about you) and think you are doing something, but it is quite another thing to demand accountability and results as well making the people you are trying to help to raise their game as well...the conditions of our inner-cities can be so deplorable, it is absolutely heartbreaking to see kids have to spend their childhoods in these situations.

 
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There is no divide between the MSM and the general public. The MSM informs and reflects the views of the general public. 
 

There is a divide between the MSM and about 40% of the population, mostly conservatives. That’s too large a percentage but it’s still a minority. I believe that the fault for this is about 20% on the MSM, and 80% on conservatives. 
Of course you do.

 
I don’t see it that way. The article is simply trying to be fair and neutral. To call these guys intimidating would be expressing an opinion- it’s an opinion I happen to agree with, but that’s not what a news article is supposed to do. 


You must hate the NY Times and Washington Post.

 
On the specific topic: I don’t like these guys either. I do find them intimidating, and so wouldn’t mind if the practice was made illegal. 

But of course the root of the problem is the lack of employment in the inner cities of this country, and that is mainly because we as a society have neglected these people, failed to provide them proper education and economic opportunity to succeed in the marketplace. 
The articles talk about the non-profit money being spent on work programs for these marginalized youth. 

"Only today was different. Drivers seemed more hesitant to let him wash their windows. By noon, he had earned about $25, much less than the $70 he usually makes in the same time frame. Johnson, 19, said one driver threatened to pull out a gun after Johnson asked whether the driver could “support the hustle.” Johnson said he and his fellow squeegee workers backed up with caution."

"Despite the atmosphere, Johnson said he had no choice but to return to the North Baltimore intersection. He had to work despite the possible dangers. He needed the cash to provide for his 8-month-old and the child’s mother. Johnson had tried a city job training program with the thought of leaving the streets, but the culinary arts program didn’t offer the immediate cash squeegeeing does.

“We can’t leave just because we feel in danger,” Johnson said. “It’s like a gamble.”

Later in the day, a driver gave Johnson a $50 bill."

That driver giving $50 bears the blame.  If this "hustle" continues to pay, squeegee work will never dry up.

"Inside, Michael Custis, a 22-year-old on-and-off squeegee worker, filled out a job application and underwent his first interview with Baltimore Department of Public Works. He was asked about his skills, to which he replied “good with math” and “patient.” He learned the first from counting money. He earned his patience working with his aunt at a day care center."

"Custis filled out his first tax forms for a conditional job offer and walked away from the job fair table feeling hopeful. It’d be his first real job, one with a new environment and new people.

“Better off get a job, go home, than be out here [with] swinging bats,” Custis said.

Most of the interviewed squeegee workers have been aged 15-21.  Most are fully grown but many are under 18 and therefore exempt from charges, as they understand.  So the under 18 workers usually hold the weapons and are also the most bold with their actions.  Why not? They have seen friends do similar stuff and face little trouble.

 
Nor will they be solved by trying to take matters into our own hands and threatening violence.

The squeegee stuff is intimidation for sure…and should be made legal.  Report it by legal means.  Taking a bat to threaten them was a monumentally bad decision and the guy paid for it with his left.

Just awful all around here.
I have experienced Reynolds situation to a much smaller extent.  But believe me, everyone in my life said similar stuff to what you say here.  I should not have been in that neighborhood.  I should not have been drunk, etc.  Women should not wear short skirts and go into shady bars.  Kids shouldn't talk to strangers.  Everyone learns their lesson the hard way.  Shrug, That's life.

 
I would add it is because we dump "feel good" money into these areas without follow-up and accountability with how the $ is used...it is so easy to write a check or approve of a spending bill in your beautiful home (not talking about you) and think you are doing something, but it is quite another thing to demand accountability and results as well making the people you are trying to help to raise their game as well...the conditions of our inner-cities can be so deplorable, it is absolutely heartbreaking to see kids have to spend their childhoods in these situations.
I don’t disagree with you here. You make very valid points; conservatives always do when they make this argument. 
The problem is the follow up. When conservative politicians get into office, often after making this very excellent argument, their solution is not to redirect funding towards specific, well thought out plans and goals; their solution is to simply cut off the funding. 
So while I agree with your complaint, if my choices are limited to throwing money at a problem without any direction vs cutting off the money altogether, I’d rather throw the money. But I think, as a society, we can all do better. 

 
I have experienced Reynolds situation to a much smaller extent.  But believe me, everyone in my life said similar stuff to what you say here.  I should not have been in that neighborhood.  I should not have been drunk, etc.  Women should not wear short skirts and go into shady bars.  Kids shouldn't talk to strangers.  Everyone learns their lesson the hard way.  Shrug, That's life.
This is nothing like saying those things.  He parked, got out of his car with a bad and threatened them with violence.  Im not excusing them either.  Especially if he was walking away.

But threatening someone with violence us more than just being in the wrong neighborhood and pretty insulting to compare that with “she shouldn’t have worn that short skirt”.  Really really bad comparison.

 
What is your opinion on the squeegee worker's "stand your ground" case?  Self defense or murder?  (Until it's known otherwise, for the question's sake let's assume the worker is under 18 and the gun is not legal for him.)

On reflection, it may be revealing that your immediate reaction was to question Reynolds decision making and ponder the reaction of NRA types, whereas I suggested Reynolds was on his way to/from work.  (I think I was influenced by your description of 3 kids, engineer, John Hopkins, though, cause the only picture I saw of him made me think he was a hot-headed drinker.  The article I just posted gave more details and included this regarding Reynold's background:
I don’t like stand your ground laws in general. They lead to more gun deaths.  Someone swinging a skateboard at Rittenhouse seems similar to a baseball bat.  I don’t expect to see that group defending this shooter with the same amount of vigor.  It may be so due to the age of the shooter, how the gun was acquired, or some other problem with the people involved. 
 

I was surprised the victim didn’t think things through better. No way I park and grab a bat and go after anyone.  It is basically a road rage incident.  Sucks. 

 
This is nothing like saying those things.  He parked, got out of his car with a bad and threatened them with violence.  Im not excusing them either.  Especially if he was walking away.

But threatening someone with violence us more than just being in the wrong neighborhood and pretty insulting to compare that with “she shouldn’t have worn that short skirt”.  Really really bad comparison.
I agree that this is a both sides issue.  However, even if he threatened them with a bat as currently described, I still see the fault to be around 90% on the squeegee side?  Maybe this is my bias showing?  But this volatile, bad situation is only happening because of the squeegees.

 
I agree that this is a both sides issue.  However, even if he threatened them with a bat as currently described, I still see the fault to be around 90% on the squeegee side?  Maybe this is my bias showing?  But this volatile, bad situation is only happening because of the squeegees.
Well the violent confrontation seemed to stem him parking elsewhere, getting out with a bat, and approaching them.

How in the world would anyone claim stand your ground on his behalf when he went into the situation as the agressor?

 
I don’t like stand your ground laws in general. They lead to more gun deaths.  Someone swinging a skateboard at Rittenhouse seems similar to a baseball bat.  I don’t expect to see that group defending this shooter with the same amount of vigor.  It may be so due to the age of the shooter, how the gun was acquired, or some other problem with the people involved. 
 

I was surprised the victim didn’t think things through better. No way I park and grab a bat and go after anyone.  It is basically a road rage incident.  Sucks. 
I don't think this situation is going to be anything like the Rittenhouse situation, which had excellent video coverage.  We'll see when the video comes out, but one obvious complete difference is that the 1 person running away from a mob, Rittenhouse, had the gun.  In this case, the 1 man walking away from 3 squeegee workers, Reynolds, had a bat and it was a squeegee worker with the gun.  

 
Well the violent confrontation seemed to stem him parking elsewhere, getting out with a bat, and approaching them.

How in the world would anyone claim stand your ground on his behalf when he went into the situation as the agressor?
No one is claiming stand your ground for Reynolds.  He is dead and will face no charges.  The articles have speculated about the unidentified squeegee worker being able to claim stand your ground.

 
I don’t disagree with you here. You make very valid points; conservatives always do when they make this argument. 
The problem is the follow up. When conservative politicians get into office, often after making this very excellent argument, their solution is not to redirect funding towards specific, well thought out plans and goals; their solution is to simply cut off the funding. 
So while I agree with your complaint, if my choices are limited to throwing money at a problem without any direction vs cutting off the money altogether, I’d rather throw the money. But I think, as a society, we can all do better. 


I think both sides are full of BS...the key is accountability...if every $ is accounted for and there are legit expectations/results built into the projects most people would be good with $ being spent...unfortunately most politicians don't care where the $ goes once they get approval (or are OK with it going somewhere it shouldn't) for it and that leads to the flip side of not wanting to spend any due to the waste and corruption...it is an awful cycle and like usual the beautiful people and elites don't have to deal with the end results.

 
On the specific topic: I don’t like these guys either. I do find them intimidating, and so wouldn’t mind if the practice was made illegal. 

But of course the root of the problem is the lack of employment in the inner cities of this country, and that is mainly because we as a society have neglected these people, failed to provide them proper education and economic opportunity to succeed in the marketplace. 
Remind me again why they can’t work at a fast food joint?  

We’ve had historically low unemployment for a long time.  Today, we have spiraling inflation in part driven by wage inflation due to scarce labor.  Restaurants and retail are short staffed.

You advocate allowing illegal migration into the country to fill jobs…the jobs are there.

 
If you pull a bat on someone you open yourself up to a lot of bad possibilities...the fact he pulled over and seemed to instigate it (i.e. it does not appear to be self-defense) means he really has no one to blame but himself for getting into this awful situation...on the flip-side this squeegee BS on public roads needs to stop...it is trash and another example of our cities turning into Escape from New York grossness.

 
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If you pull a bat on someone you open yourself up to a lot of bad possibilities...the fact he pulled over and seemed to instigate it (i.e, it does not appear to be self-defense) means he really has no one to blame but himself for getting into this awful situation...on the flip-side this squeegee BS on public roads needs to stop...it is trash and another example of our cities turning into Escape from New York grossness.
Exactly.  Dude was a #######.

But if we create norms where citizens are allowed to be harassed and intimidated while they’re on their way to work or dropping their kids off to school, you’re creating an environment ripe for confrontation.  

 
As far as stand-your-ground, I don't know for sure, so I am guessing but I would think it would not apply if it's an illegal firearm.
Yea, there are a couple relevant parts of the statute.

The actor has not provoked the assailant in any way.

The actor is not in possession of an illegal firearm or involved in any illegal activity.

 
I live in Baltimore and interact with the "squeegee boys" on a regular basis since I live in town.  In fact i rode my bike from my house to Camden Yards the evening that this happened.

Overall, I'd Raye the squeegee boys as "annoying" but I've never been threatened.  Worst thing that happens if you reject their offer is that they squirt some water on your windshield and don't wipe it off. 

I could see them getting more aggressive if the driver gets more aggressive.  In general, it's not a good idea to get into an yelling match or worse when you're outnumbered 5:1 or more. 

That said, this is a real tragedy on a lot of levels.  Cops will be cracking down on them even more now and I saw some boys getting talked to by a cop on Friday around noon as I drove down President after exiting 83.

 
There is no divide between the MSM and the general public. The MSM informs and reflects the views of the general public. 
There is a divide between the MSM and about 40% of the population, mostly conservatives. That’s too large a percentage but it’s still a minority. I believe that the fault for this is about 20% on the MSM, and 80% on conservatives. 


HERE IS TIM VIRTUE SIGNALING ABOUT HOW THE "MEDIA" WORKS:

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/780181-official-donald-j-trump-impeachment-whistleblower-thread/?do=findComment&comment=23240684

timschochet Posted February 10, 2021

Yesterday in another thread I defended Fox News as trustworthy- the news reporting, not the opinion shows.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803852-mika-brzezinski-on-msnbc-“he-is-trying-to-control-exactly-what-people-think-that-is-our-job”/?do=findComment&comment=23986126

timschochet Posted April 20

It should be pointed out that Fox News in 2020 correctly reported the electoral results in Arizona, much to the dismay and anger of Trump and many of his supporters. It’s not the first time, either, that Fox angered many conservatives by reporting the news accurately. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803713-boston-herald-oped-calls-out-nyt-and-wapo-for-partisan-politics/?do=findComment&comment=23966438

timschochet Posted April 5

Thanks for referencing me but I need to correct you. I don’t believe that Fox News is a “cess pool of biased coverage.” I find Fox News’ reporting to be accurate and I trust it. I don’t trust it’s opinion shows. Nor do I trust the opinion shows on MSNBC or CNN. But I do trust the news reporting on all 3 networks. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803852-mika-brzezinski-on-msnbc-“he-is-trying-to-control-exactly-what-people-think-that-is-our-job”/?do=findComment&comment=23986117

timschochet Posted April 20

 Fox News wants to keep their audience, which is mostly conservative. Thus their opinion shows are mostly conservative. But their actual news reporting, much like the actual news reporting of CNN and MSNBC, is pretty fair and accurate.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/800486-hunter-biden-laptop-story-true-media-shocked-but-not-really/?do=findComment&comment=23938941

timschochet Posted March 18

It does not. I regard Fox News as a trustworthy source of news. I always have

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803561-for-an-overall-grade-where-would-you-rate-the-fox-news-for-left-right-bias-accuracyreliability/?do=findComment&comment=23946936

timschochet Posted March 23

I don’t watch Fox very much but I have no reason not to trust their news reporting. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/774282-cnn-questions-as-to-whether-jussie-smollett-faked-attack/?do=findComment&comment=21721404

timschochet Posted February 18, 2019 (edited)

I don’t watch Fox News reporting very often. But when I do I don’t see any sign of a conservative bias

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/774062-va-gov-ralph-northam-yearbook-photo-lg-and-ag-scandals-too/?do=findComment&comment=21693915

timschochet Posted February 4, 2019

Fox News is not normally considered part of the MSM, and they seem quite proud of the distinction. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/798399-official-16-select-committee-thread/?do=findComment&comment=24089416

timschochet Posted June 30

Your opinion of the mainstream media is, believe, removed from reality. The mainstream media reports the news accurately. Not short term. All the time. They deserve your admiration and your trust, not your criticism. 

HERE IS WHERE TIM'S BIAS BLEEDS THROUGH THE "VIRTUE" AND IT'S ALL "80% ON CONSERVATIVES" FALLS APART:

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803112-unofficial-canadian-thread-previously-trucker-convoy-thread/?do=findComment&comment=23893775

timschochet Posted February 20

I regard Fox News as slanted and NYT and WashPo as beacons of integrity. I have very good reasons to hold these opinions. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803250-durham-investigation-into-potential-spying-on-trump/?do=findComment&comment=23892360

timschochet Posted February 19

After Durban’s statement, Fox News has dropped all coverage of this story. It’s like it never happened.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/795638-mass-shootings-thread/?do=findComment&comment=23314157

timschochet Posted March 23, 2021

Both are correct. But Fox News is deceptive because the word “gun ban” implies something larger than assault rifles. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/780181-official-donald-j-trump-impeachment-whistleblower-thread/?do=findComment&comment=22333294

timschochet Posted November 26, 2019

 I often wonder what George Orwell would have thought of Fox News, right wing talk radio, and the alternative reality that is being presented on a daily basis to conservatives. Orwell assumed that a totalitarian dictatorship was necessary for an alternative reality to take place but he was wrong about that. We are not a dictatorship, yet we have this in our midst. And it’s killing this nation. Just killing it. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/774574-dnc-bars-fox-news-from-2020-debates/?do=findComment&comment=21757558

timschochet Posted March 8, 2019

 ( On 3/8/2019 at 4:11 AM, JuniorNB said: Fox News is just an extension of the Trump administration now....)

Nothing that you wrote here is far from the truth. However, the perception among the public is that Fox, while skewed to the right, is a legitimate news network.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/788026-timschochet’s-political-thoughts-and-commentary-back-in-here-until-the-election-is-done/?do=findComment&comment=23030867

timschochet Posted October 22, 2020

 All major news sources, without exception, have an agenda which they push all the time: they want you to read or watch. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/791658-january-6th-what-will-happen/?do=findComment&comment=23440920

timschochet Posted June 16, 2021

1. Fox News (the reporting, Chris Wallace, etc) IS part of the mainstream media. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/695973-obamacare-obama-just-straight-up-lied-to-you-in-your-face/?do=findComment&comment=16221971

timschochet Posted November 19, 2013

I'm trying to ignore all bad news, anecdotal or otherwise. No good can come from it. We're not getting rid of Obamacare, so we might as well focus on the good news and try to make more of it happen.

As far as Obama's personal credibility, it's completely irrelevant to me.

********

Tim says the criticisms of the MSM roots from Conservatives viewpoint of the MSM. He literally smears 40 percent of the entire American population to do it. He also says Fox News, the main Conservative news outlet in the entire country, is "accurate" and "trustworthy" and he himself "trusts it" and it is "pretty fair and accurate" and it is worthy of his "defense". He says himself that he sees "no conservative bias" and there is "no reason not to trust them" and that he has "always trusted them"

The major distinction being that Fox is NOT part of the MSM and that "The mainstream media reports the news accurately. Not short term. All the time."

And then it all falls apart, very predictably.

Because Tim also says Fox News is "slanted" and they intentionally dropped the "Durham story" and that they are "deceptive" and even goes as far as to paint Fox News as so dystopian in nature that he asks what would George Orwell think about "the alternate reality presented"   When asked if Fox News is an extension of the Trump Administration, Tim says it's not far from the truth and shades down more by implying Fox does not have "a legitimate news network"

Tim can try to sell these partisan positions that scream hard radical left because he kept saying Fox News is not part of the MSM. Until he slips up because he watches Chris Wallace, then on Fox, and says it definitely IS A PART OF THE MSM.

And then the truth just comes out, Tim admits all "major news sources have an agenda" ( What happened to deserving your "admiration and trust and not your criticism"?) and that he "ignores all bad news" but instead choose to just focus on the "good news"

And who gets to define what is good news or bad news? It's Tim.

Tim just smeared 40 percent of the entire country (huge surprise, it's the side that is opposite of his own political viewpoints and bias) because he can't keep a set of goal posts in one place.  Tim, don't try to gut every last Conservative and Republican in the entire country and you'll stop getting the push back you keep claiming comes out of nowhere.

 
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There is no divide between the MSM and the general public. The MSM informs and reflects the views of the general public. 
 

There is a divide between the MSM and about 40% of the population, mostly conservatives. That’s too large a percentage but it’s still a minority. I believe that the fault for this is about 20% on the MSM, and 80% on conservatives. 
Lol, tf are you on about?

Trust in news collapses to historic low

35% of Dems great deal/quite a lot of confidence in newspapers

20% of Dems great deal/quite a lot of confidence in TV news

Seems like a far greater overall disconnect than just conservatives or whatever point you were trying to make, but keeps those hands up to your ears as you do so well.

 
There is no divide between the MSM and the general public. The MSM informs and reflects the views of the general public. 
 

There is a divide between the MSM and about 40% of the population, mostly conservatives. That’s too large a percentage but it’s still a minority. I believe that the fault for this is about 20% on the MSM, and 80% on conservatives. 
gtfoh 

:lmao:

 
There is no divide between the MSM and the general public. The MSM informs and reflects the views of the general public. 
 

There is a divide between the MSM and about 40% of the population, mostly conservatives. That’s too large a percentage but it’s still a minority. I believe that the fault for this is about 20% on the MSM, and 80% on conservatives. 
I'm not conservative and I think calling the people who start touching your car without permission "squeegee workers" is way off base. They're basically pan handlers with a built in excuse to confront you. It's out of touch with me to start from the viewpoint that they're legitimate workers, they're not.

 
I don’t see it that way. The article is simply trying to be fair and neutral. To call these guys intimidating would be expressing an opinion- it’s an opinion I happen to agree with, but that’s not what a news article is supposed to do. 
I disagree. If they're not hired to squeegee, then they're messing up your private property against your will. Which I believe is likely criminal.

 
HERE IS TIM VIRTUE SIGNALING ABOUT HOW THE "MEDIA" WORKS:

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/780181-official-donald-j-trump-impeachment-whistleblower-thread/?do=findComment&comment=23240684

timschochet Posted February 10, 2021

Yesterday in another thread I defended Fox News as trustworthy- the news reporting, not the opinion shows.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803852-mika-brzezinski-on-msnbc-“he-is-trying-to-control-exactly-what-people-think-that-is-our-job”/?do=findComment&comment=23986126

timschochet Posted April 20

It should be pointed out that Fox News in 2020 correctly reported the electoral results in Arizona, much to the dismay and anger of Trump and many of his supporters. It’s not the first time, either, that Fox angered many conservatives by reporting the news accurately. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803713-boston-herald-oped-calls-out-nyt-and-wapo-for-partisan-politics/?do=findComment&comment=23966438

timschochet Posted April 5

Thanks for referencing me but I need to correct you. I don’t believe that Fox News is a “cess pool of biased coverage.” I find Fox News’ reporting to be accurate and I trust it. I don’t trust it’s opinion shows. Nor do I trust the opinion shows on MSNBC or CNN. But I do trust the news reporting on all 3 networks. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803852-mika-brzezinski-on-msnbc-“he-is-trying-to-control-exactly-what-people-think-that-is-our-job”/?do=findComment&comment=23986117

timschochet Posted April 20

 Fox News wants to keep their audience, which is mostly conservative. Thus their opinion shows are mostly conservative. But their actual news reporting, much like the actual news reporting of CNN and MSNBC, is pretty fair and accurate.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/800486-hunter-biden-laptop-story-true-media-shocked-but-not-really/?do=findComment&comment=23938941

timschochet Posted March 18

It does not. I regard Fox News as a trustworthy source of news. I always have

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803561-for-an-overall-grade-where-would-you-rate-the-fox-news-for-left-right-bias-accuracyreliability/?do=findComment&comment=23946936

timschochet Posted March 23

I don’t watch Fox very much but I have no reason not to trust their news reporting. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/774282-cnn-questions-as-to-whether-jussie-smollett-faked-attack/?do=findComment&comment=21721404

timschochet Posted February 18, 2019 (edited)

I don’t watch Fox News reporting very often. But when I do I don’t see any sign of a conservative bias

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/774062-va-gov-ralph-northam-yearbook-photo-lg-and-ag-scandals-too/?do=findComment&comment=21693915

timschochet Posted February 4, 2019

Fox News is not normally considered part of the MSM, and they seem quite proud of the distinction. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/798399-official-16-select-committee-thread/?do=findComment&comment=24089416

timschochet Posted June 30

Your opinion of the mainstream media is, believe, removed from reality. The mainstream media reports the news accurately. Not short term. All the time. They deserve your admiration and your trust, not your criticism. 

HERE IS WHERE TIM'S BIAS BLEEDS THROUGH THE "VIRTUE" AND IT'S ALL "80% ON CONSERVATIVES" FALLS APART:

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803112-unofficial-canadian-thread-previously-trucker-convoy-thread/?do=findComment&comment=23893775

timschochet Posted February 20

I regard Fox News as slanted and NYT and WashPo as beacons of integrity. I have very good reasons to hold these opinions. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/803250-durham-investigation-into-potential-spying-on-trump/?do=findComment&comment=23892360

timschochet Posted February 19

After Durban’s statement, Fox News has dropped all coverage of this story. It’s like it never happened.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/795638-mass-shootings-thread/?do=findComment&comment=23314157

timschochet Posted March 23, 2021

Both are correct. But Fox News is deceptive because the word “gun ban” implies something larger than assault rifles. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/780181-official-donald-j-trump-impeachment-whistleblower-thread/?do=findComment&comment=22333294

timschochet Posted November 26, 2019

 I often wonder what George Orwell would have thought of Fox News, right wing talk radio, and the alternative reality that is being presented on a daily basis to conservatives. Orwell assumed that a totalitarian dictatorship was necessary for an alternative reality to take place but he was wrong about that. We are not a dictatorship, yet we have this in our midst. And it’s killing this nation. Just killing it. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/774574-dnc-bars-fox-news-from-2020-debates/?do=findComment&comment=21757558

timschochet Posted March 8, 2019

 ( On 3/8/2019 at 4:11 AM, JuniorNB said: Fox News is just an extension of the Trump administration now....)

Nothing that you wrote here is far from the truth. However, the perception among the public is that Fox, while skewed to the right, is a legitimate news network.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/788026-timschochet’s-political-thoughts-and-commentary-back-in-here-until-the-election-is-done/?do=findComment&comment=23030867

timschochet Posted October 22, 2020

 All major news sources, without exception, have an agenda which they push all the time: they want you to read or watch. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/791658-january-6th-what-will-happen/?do=findComment&comment=23440920

timschochet Posted June 16, 2021

1. Fox News (the reporting, Chris Wallace, etc) IS part of the mainstream media. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/695973-obamacare-obama-just-straight-up-lied-to-you-in-your-face/?do=findComment&comment=16221971

timschochet Posted November 19, 2013

I'm trying to ignore all bad news, anecdotal or otherwise. No good can come from it. We're not getting rid of Obamacare, so we might as well focus on the good news and try to make more of it happen.

As far as Obama's personal credibility, it's completely irrelevant to me.

********

Tim says the criticisms of the MSM roots from Conservatives viewpoint of the MSM. He literally smears 40 percent of the entire American population to do it. He also says Fox News, the main Conservative news outlet in the entire country, is "accurate" and "trustworthy" and he himself "trusts it" and it is "pretty fair and accurate" and it is worthy of his "defense". He says himself that he sees "no conservative bias" and there is "no reason not to trust them" and that he has "always trusted them"

The major distinction being that Fox is NOT part of the MSM and that "The mainstream media reports the news accurately. Not short term. All the time."

And then it all falls apart, very predictably.

Because Tim also says Fox News is "slanted" and they intentionally dropped the "Durham story" and that they are "deceptive" and even goes as far as to paint Fox News as so dystopian in nature that he asks what would George Orwell think about "the alternate reality presented"   When asked if Fox News is an extension of the Trump Administration, Tim says it's not far from the truth and shades down more by implying Fox does not have "a legitimate news network"

Tim can try to sell these partisan positions that scream hard radical left because he kept saying Fox News is not part of the MSM. Until he slips up because he watches Chris Wallace, then on Fox, and says it definitely IS A PART OF THE MSM.

And then the truth just comes out, Tim admits all "major news sources have an agenda" ( What happened to deserving your "admiration and trust and not your criticism"?) and that he "ignores all bad news" but instead choose to just focus on the "good news"

And who gets to define what is good news or bad news? It's Tim.

Tim just smeared 40 percent of the entire country (huge surprise, it's the side that is opposite of his own political viewpoints and bias) because he can't keep a set of goal posts in one place.  Tim, don't try to gut every last Conservative and Republican in the entire country and you'll stop getting the push back you keep claiming comes out of nowhere.
I can’t even fathom the amount of time and energy you put into this post. That’s why I call it creepy. 

 
🤣. Says the guy with 159,000 posts.
But that’s the point. I have a LOT of posts. Imagine the amount of work to parse through them and find all those quotes. 
And the thing is there’s not even a gotcha! There never is one whenever he does this, because I don’t exactly hide my views about the MSM. Everyone knows where I stand. Plenty disagree with me and that’s fine but only one guy spends what must be hours digging up my old quotes on the subject. It’s creepy. 

 
But that’s the point. I have a LOT of posts. Imagine the amount of work to parse through them and find all those quotes. 
And the thing is there’s not even a gotcha! There never is one whenever he does this, because I don’t exactly hide my views about the MSM. Everyone knows where I stand. Plenty disagree with me and that’s fine but only one guy spends what must be hours digging up my old quotes on the subject. It’s creepy. 
Oh I thought you were just referring to the amount of time it takes to post, not researching your posts.

Yan I don’t know how GG does it, he must use advanced AI and machine learning lol.

 
There is no divide between the MSM and the general public. The MSM informs and reflects the views of the general public. 
There is a divide between the MSM and about 40% of the population, mostly conservatives. That’s too large a percentage but it’s still a minority. I believe that the fault for this is about 20% on the MSM, and 80% on conservatives. 

But that’s the point. I have a LOT of posts. Imagine the amount of work to parse through them and find all those quotes. 
And the thing is there’s not even a gotcha! There never is one whenever he does this, because I don’t exactly hide my views about the MSM. Everyone knows where I stand. Plenty disagree with me and that’s fine but only one guy spends what must be hours digging up my old quotes on the subject. It’s creepy. 


THIS IS WHERE TIM STANDS AS HE SMEARS 40% OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION FOR HIS TRIBALISM:

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/762189-hello-groupmy-name-is-opie/?do=findComment&comment=21929645

timschochet Posted May 29, 2019

And here you double down on the same error. Rachel Maddow is not a news journalist. Neither is Sean Hannity. Using them as examples of biased reporting from either network is simply flawed. 

Several of you guys make the same error over and over. At this point I have to assume it’s deliberate.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/753528-the-russia-investigation-trump-pardons-flynn/?do=findComment&comment=20985612

timschochet Posted April 16, 2018

The thing is, Hannity has always stressed the point that he is not a journalist and his show is not a news show, but an opinion show. Does that make any difference? 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/763214-2018-elections-thread/?do=findComment&comment=21488915

timschochet Posted November 6, 2018

Fox News doesn’t present Sean Hannity as a journalist. He’s an opinion guy. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/770802-assange-extradition-britain-agrees-to-extradite-publisher-to-country-that-plotted-to-assassinate-him/?do=findComment&comment=21831873

timschochet Posted April 12, 2019

Sean Hannity is not and has never been a journalist. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/776645-trump-to-infinity-and-beyond-hq-the-great-and-positive-place/?do=findComment&comment=22110753

timschochet Posted August 29, 2019

Sure but it’s an opinion show, it’s OK for him and Hannity and others to report news from unnamed sources which do not meet the credibility that would be demanded on a news program. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/753528-the-russia-investigation-trump-pardons-flynn/?do=findComment&comment=22109434

timschochet Posted August 28, 2019 (edited)

I don’t understand why he should have to apologize. His show is an opinion show, not a news show. Thus he can speculate, report rumors, discuss them. Sean Hannity does this on a nightly basis; much of what Hannity “reports” is false (the Seth Rich conspiracy, for example) and he never apologizes for any of it, nor should he, because he is not a journalist.

THIS IS WHERE IT PREDICTABLY FALLS APART WHEN TIM SAYS "IT'S 80% ON CONSERVATIVES" :

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/796270-the-price-of-embracing-right-wing-media/?do=findComment&comment=23371501

timschochet Posted April 29, 2021

As I pointed out in the beginning of this thread: if I get 100% of my news from CNN, and the Republicans get 100% of their news from Hannity, then I know the truth of the 2020 election and they believe the lie, I know the truth about COVID and they believe the lies, I know the truth about climate change and they think it’s a hoax. It’s not comparable. These are vital differences between my knowledge and theirs. And this isn’t a theoretical discussion: it’s happening. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/796270-the-price-of-embracing-right-wing-media/?do=findComment&comment=23365176

timschochet Posted April 25, 2021

2. “I have real problems with CNN and the New York Times, I think they promote a leftist agenda, so I only get my news from the Hannity Show.”

This attitude is my concern. If millions of people believe this (and polling suggest they do) it’s a serious threat to our society, perhaps the biggest threat we face.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/780181-official-donald-j-trump-impeachment-whistleblower-thread/?do=findComment&comment=22216576

timschochet Posted October 9, 2019

In the conservative media there is usually an alternative reality: Hannity and others report a storyline completely different from the mainstream. The latest example is John Durham, appointee by Barr to investigate the origins of the Mueller probe. Apparently Durham has discovered such horrible stuff that Democrats have chosen impeachment as a desperate means to distract the public from the “real story” which is about to come out. President Trump retweeted a segment of Sean Hannity’s show that was devoted to this last night. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/753767-the-trump-years-every-day-something-more-shocking-than-the-last/?do=findComment&comment=20759760

timschochet Posted January 11, 2018

If your only news source was the Sean Hannity Show, you would not have a clue that any of this happened. 

But you would get to hear instead about the “biggest scandal in American history”: the plot by Hillary Clinton, James Comey, and Robert Mueller to bring down the Trump presidency. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/753528-the-russia-investigation-trump-pardons-flynn/?do=findComment&comment=21562855

timschochet Posted December 8, 2018

2. None of this has anything to do with collusion or Russia. It’s all about sex, and the public won’t care. In fact if the Democrats overreach Trump's popularity will go up just as it did with Bill Clinton. (First off this is false, Hannity knows it’s false; he’s completely ignoring the part of the memos that had to do with Russia. Obviously he thinks his audience is stupid, and given his consistently  high ratings, he is probably right about that. Second, even if this were only about Cohen’s payments to the women, the Lewinsky analogy doesn’t hold: if Bill Clinton had been caught paying  Monica Lewinsky cash to keep silent prior to his election, I think he would have been removed from office. That is a serious crime. Finally, given Hannity’s attacks on Clinton during the Lewinsky saga, his current dismissal of this situation as “all about sex” is especially hypocritical.) 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/753528-the-russia-investigation-trump-pardons-flynn/?do=findComment&comment=20312460

timschochet Posted August 4, 2017

This is true but it omits the fact that Hannity has been pushing the crap for around 20 years now. Remember the Swift Boat stuff against Kerry in 2004? That turned out to be a total fabrication, but it was featured prominently on Hannity's show. Then there were all of the attacks against Obama. And, of course, Benghazi- Sean spent a whole year obsessing over that one. 

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/773938-official-joe-biden-campaign-thread/?do=findComment&comment=22176885

timschochet Posted September 24, 2019

But I don’t find the Hannity show to be a credible source of news. 

******

Tim says Sean Hannity is "not a journalist" and using him as an example of "biased reporting is flawed"  Tim calls it a "deliberate" error for anyone to think differently. Tim says Hannity is not a journalist over and over again. That Hannity is an "opinion guy" who shouldn't have to apologize for having opinions ( which Tim calls often "false") because there is a clear understanding between the difference of a "journalist" and an "opinion guy"

Then Tim proceeds to succumb to his unhinged tribalism and decides to hammer Hannity for said "biased reporting". That he's pushing "100% lies"  And anyone believing anything Hannity has to say, counting in the millions, is "the biggest threat we face" as a society. (I'm really trying hard not to laugh here...)

Tim, in 2019, proceeds to mock the Durham probe that was discussed on Hannity and in 2018, continued to slash at Hannity for talking about "the plot by Hillary Clinton to take down the Trump presidency" as if it was totally ridiculous ( Those hot takes didn't age well did they?)

Then Tim rails on Hannity for saying false things and ignoring memos mostly because his "audience is stupid" ( Nice cheap dig there at all Conservatives and Republicans again) But what about what Tim said before that Hannity shouldn't have to apologize to anyone for his opinions when it's clear he is "not a journalist" and that he should not be held to the due diligence of an actual journalist?  What happened to using Hannity as an example of biased reporting to be flawed?

Finally Tim rages on that Hannity has been getting away with fabrications, opinions, attacks and obsessions for 20 years. (Yes, Tim criticizing the concept of obsession...) And bemoans that Hannity is not a "credible source of news" Why would he be a credible source of news if Tim has already declared that Hannity has never ever been a journalist and should not be held to those standards? While ironically Tim is actually holding Hannity to those standards when it fits his personal agenda.

Tim, are you making "the same error over and over"?

Listen, don't use sweeping generalizations to smear all Conservatives and Republicans to fulfill your tribalist blood lust  and you'll find less push back.

 
these squeegees are the worst.     i got windshield wiper fluid and gas stations.    just make this nonsense illegal.

edit: and enforce it.

 
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