The elephant in the room for dynasty leagues... (1 Viewer)

[ShaHBucks]

This is no different than "drafting with guppies"

 

[identikit]

Would be wild if a league started up with the rule that all trade offers were public.

For all to see.

 

[socrates]

This is no different than "drafting with guppies"

I get the comparison, but unlike the draft, for those owners who refuse to partake in the trade predation, there is a distinct disadvantage.

 

[DaveGrumbles]

I think the elephant in the room might just be someone's ego. 'I'm the uber-genius fantasy football god playing with mere mortals so I must be responsible enough to use my powers for good and not evil.' It doesn't matter the skill level of a league as there will always be the guy who wants to run everyone else's franchise because he knows best.

I absolutely understand there are shady a-holes out there who will always float the awful lopsided trade to the new/inexperienced owners. That's a given. But a lot of the time these are owners (many posters here included) who simply overvalue the upside of their own players and will always overplay their hand in trade negotiations. To me it might look like some lame owner trying to get over, but most times its just an owner who doesn't realize nobody else likes their player's talent as much they do. That's not a cheater, it's just your average delusional football guy.

Bottom line is that you need to find a league that fits your skill level. After that just accept the fact that fantasy football is a competition and there will be some disparity in skill/knowledge (and opinion) between owners. That disparity will eventually become evident during said competition. If there wasn't then why prepare at all? Just randomly assign players to all owners and hope for the best. And for goodness sake DON'T try to win or anything crazy like that...that would be unethical.

 

[incogneato]

Great thread.

I think we'll all been there at one point where weak/disinterested/ill-informed owners have the ability to ruin top-level competition. Even if you have a strong league their is always a weak link or two.

Its tough if you play with good guys/girls where you don't want to make draconian rules that ruin the 'fun' aspect of fantasy football.

Still bad teams kill competition. They make bad trades, they run their teams into the ground and inflate the records of other teams so I try to help behind the scene in my league.

If I find myself with a surplus at a certain position that could help out one of those teams I make a point to seek out those bad teams first to propose lopsided one-sided dealks in the favor of those teams in order to try and help them out.

I get back mid-level dynasty rookie picks in the future and that gives me options. I can package those picks with my own to move-up or make a package of mid-level picks with older veteran players and propose a trade with a more 'competative' team in my league who might have a need of a vet player at a certain position and where I might need an older veteran player at a different position they have to us both in playoff runs.

I think you can massage the gorrilla in the room and see it as a challege of taking fantasy strategy to the chess level instead of only making checker moves.

Look at it as an opportunity rather than a problem that you have to hit over the head with a hammer.

C'Mon man. You aren't proposing trades to hurt your team and help the bad teams. You're dumping what you consider your dead weight for lottery tickets with the hope to use those lottery tickets to get better lottery tickets. That's fine and fair but you're managing your team.

How many stacked owners in a dynasty league are looking to take an older veteran player and your mid range pick for something valuable? No one. Seriously try to trade P. Manning, Drew Brees, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, Vincent Jackson, Adrian Peterson, or Matt Forte in a dynasty league. Very rarely will anyone pay their value for them. I even see owners complaining that J. Charles is too old now. Everyone wants the young whether they are a 11 game winning owner or a 2 game winning owner.

Yup. Par for the course 'round here. Was recently told that he wasn't interested, because "he's a bit old for my taste in dynasty". Player in question was 25 years old...lmao.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I think the elephant in the room might just be someone's ego. 'I'm the uber-genius fantasy football god playing with mere mortals so I must be responsible enough to use my powers for good and not evil.' It doesn't matter the skill level of a league as there will always be the guy who wants to run everyone else's franchise because he knows best.

Great point.

a lot of arm chair QBs out there too,

Last year at this time was absolutely undressed in 1 league for moving Blackmon straight for Garcon. Couple morons went on and on at me about it.

 

[jurb26]

I think the elephant in the room might just be someone's ego. 'I'm the uber-genius fantasy football god playing with mere mortals so I must be responsible enough to use my powers for good and not evil.' It doesn't matter the skill level of a league as there will always be the guy who wants to run everyone else's franchise because he knows best.

I absolutely understand there are shady a-holes out there who will always float the awful lopsided trade to the new/inexperienced owners. That's a given. But a lot of the time these are owners (many posters here included) who simply overvalue the upside of their own players and will always overplay their hand in trade negotiations. To me it might look like some lame owner trying to get over, but most times its just an owner who doesn't realize nobody else likes their player's talent as much they do. That's not a cheater, it's just your average delusional football guy.

Bottom line is that you need to find a league that fits your skill level. After that just accept the fact that fantasy football is a competition and there will be some disparity in skill/knowledge (and opinion) between owners. That disparity will eventually become evident during said competition. If there wasn't then why prepare at all? Just randomly assign players to all owners and hope for the best. And for goodness sake DON'T try to win or anything crazy like that...that would be unethical.

There is a lot of truth to this. I recall years ago getting a rash of crap for giving up too much to acquire J. Charles in one of my leagues. This was the season before his break out and I gave up something like Portis and some other stuff for Charles and picks. I had to defend my decision to a bunch of people who thought they could run my team better than I could.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Great thread.

I think we'll all been there at one point where weak/disinterested/ill-informed owners have the ability to ruin top-level competition. Even if you have a strong league their is always a weak link or two.

Its tough if you play with good guys/girls where you don't want to make draconian rules that ruin the 'fun' aspect of fantasy football.

Still bad teams kill competition. They make bad trades, they run their teams into the ground and inflate the records of other teams so I try to help behind the scene in my league.

If I find myself with a surplus at a certain position that could help out one of those teams I make a point to seek out those bad teams first to propose lopsided one-sided dealks in the favor of those teams in order to try and help them out.

I get back mid-level dynasty rookie picks in the future and that gives me options. I can package those picks with my own to move-up or make a package of mid-level picks with older veteran players and propose a trade with a more 'competative' team in my league who might have a need of a vet player at a certain position and where I might need an older veteran player at a different position they have to us both in playoff runs.

I think you can massage the gorrilla in the room and see it as a challege of taking fantasy strategy to the chess level instead of only making checker moves.

Look at it as an opportunity rather than a problem that you have to hit over the head with a hammer.

C'Mon man. You aren't proposing trades to hurt your team and help the bad teams. You're dumping what you consider your dead weight for lottery tickets with the hope to use those lottery tickets to get better lottery tickets. That's fine and fair but you're managing your team.

How many stacked owners in a dynasty league are looking to take an older veteran player and your mid range pick for something valuable? No one. Seriously try to trade P. Manning, Drew Brees, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, Vincent Jackson, Adrian Peterson, or Matt Forte in a dynasty league. Very rarely will anyone pay their value for them. I even see owners complaining that J. Charles is too old now. Everyone wants the young whether they are a 11 game winning owner or a 2 game winning owner.

I don't lie.

I have been doing this strategy for years and its paid off handsomely for me, for example.

Last year. We had our first new-owner in a long standing dynasty league. The newbie took over a so-so team and made frenetic trades that zapped him of all starting RBs and depth. He was screwed in the first 24 hours he took over his team. I watched and he was 0-3 and heading for an 0-fer season and I couldnt' have that so I stepped in and gave him a Don Corleone offer.

This particular deal is not of the variety I have described above but this happened last year.

I offered him my 2014 2nd round pick, my 2014 3rd round pick, LB Luke Keuchly, RB Daryl Richardsonn, and RB Ahamad Bradshaw. I was asking for his 2014 1st round pick in return.

This was early last year. Bradshaw was coming off a 1,000 yard season, Keuchly is and IDP stud, Richardson was still in the running for the Rams starting gig, throw in both 2nd and 3rd round picks and it was a landslide deal in his favor.

I not only made the offer I told him how he screwed up trading away all of his starting RBs and depth. I also told him how IDP stud LBers scored on a level with #2 starting RBs. He leapt at the deal.

THE VERY NEXT DAY!!!!!!!!!!

Indianopolis traded for RB Trent Richardson and not long after Bradshaw landed on IR.

He did benefit from the trade last year and improved his record but now I hold the 3rd pick in our upcoming rookie draft. I actually got hurt last year from that deal. I had only my second losing season ever playing fantasy football but now I'm sitting pretty going forward.

Yes yes I do indeed use that strategy. I have used it for years but last year's trade was unique in its blockbuster size. Many times I have traded away 3rd RBs or 3rd WRs especially if I had drafted a rookie or had been sitting on a guy I had developed on my bench.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Great thread.

I think we'll all been there at one point where weak/disinterested/ill-informed owners have the ability to ruin top-level competition. Even if you have a strong league their is always a weak link or two.

Its tough if you play with good guys/girls where you don't want to make draconian rules that ruin the 'fun' aspect of fantasy football.

Still bad teams kill competition. They make bad trades, they run their teams into the ground and inflate the records of other teams so I try to help behind the scene in my league.

If I find myself with a surplus at a certain position that could help out one of those teams I make a point to seek out those bad teams first to propose lopsided one-sided dealks in the favor of those teams in order to try and help them out.

I get back mid-level dynasty rookie picks in the future and that gives me options. I can package those picks with my own to move-up or make a package of mid-level picks with older veteran players and propose a trade with a more 'competative' team in my league who might have a need of a vet player at a certain position and where I might need an older veteran player at a different position they have to us both in playoff runs.

I think you can massage the gorrilla in the room and see it as a challege of taking fantasy strategy to the chess level instead of only making checker moves.

Look at it as an opportunity rather than a problem that you have to hit over the head with a hammer.

C'Mon man. You aren't proposing trades to hurt your team and help the bad teams. You're dumping what you consider your dead weight for lottery tickets with the hope to use those lottery tickets to get better lottery tickets. That's fine and fair but you're managing your team.

How many stacked owners in a dynasty league are looking to take an older veteran player and your mid range pick for something valuable? No one. Seriously try to trade P. Manning, Drew Brees, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, Vincent Jackson, Adrian Peterson, or Matt Forte in a dynasty league. Very rarely will anyone pay their value for them. I even see owners complaining that J. Charles is too old now. Everyone wants the young whether they are a 11 game winning owner or a 2 game winning owner.

I don't lie.

I have been doing this strategy for years and its paid off handsomely for me, for example.

Last year. We had our first new-owner in a long standing dynasty league. The newbie took over a so-so team and made frenetic trades that zapped him of all starting RBs and depth. He was screwed in the first 24 hours he took over his team. I watched and he was 0-3 and heading for an 0-fer season and I couldnt' have that so I stepped in and gave him a Don Corleone offer.

This particular deal is not of the variety I have described above but this happened last year.

I offered him my 2014 2nd round pick, my 2014 3rd round pick, LB Luke Keuchly, RB Daryl Richardsonn, and RB Ahamad Bradshaw. I was asking for his 2014 1st round pick in return.

This was early last year. Bradshaw was coming off a 1,000 yard season, Keuchly is and IDP stud, Richardson was still in the running for the Rams starting gig, throw in both 2nd and 3rd round picks and it was a landslide deal in his favor.

I not only made the offer I told him how he screwed up trading away all of his starting RBs and depth. I also told him how IDP stud LBers scored on a level with #2 starting RBs. He leapt at the deal.

THE VERY NEXT DAY!!!!!!!!!!

Indianopolis traded for RB Trent Richardson and not long after Bradshaw landed on IR.

He did benefit from the trade last year and improved his record but now I hold the 3rd pick in our upcoming rookie draft. I actually got hurt last year from that deal. I had only my second losing season ever playing fantasy football but now I'm sitting pretty going forward.

Yes yes I do indeed use that strategy. I have used it for years but last year's trade was unique in its blockbuster size. Many times I have traded away 3rd RBs or 3rd WRs especially if I had drafted a rookie or had been sitting on a guy I had developed on my bench.

I didn't say you were a liar. I said you are doing that to benefit your team and not is. Making him a 2-11 team instead of 0-13 doesn't help. You took his #1 pick away for garbage and robbed him of getting an elite player like Watkins. Congrats?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Great thread.

I think we'll all been there at one point where weak/disinterested/ill-informed owners have the ability to ruin top-level competition. Even if you have a strong league their is always a weak link or two.

Its tough if you play with good guys/girls where you don't want to make draconian rules that ruin the 'fun' aspect of fantasy football.

Still bad teams kill competition. They make bad trades, they run their teams into the ground and inflate the records of other teams so I try to help behind the scene in my league.

If I find myself with a surplus at a certain position that could help out one of those teams I make a point to seek out those bad teams first to propose lopsided one-sided dealks in the favor of those teams in order to try and help them out.

I get back mid-level dynasty rookie picks in the future and that gives me options. I can package those picks with my own to move-up or make a package of mid-level picks with older veteran players and propose a trade with a more 'competative' team in my league who might have a need of a vet player at a certain position and where I might need an older veteran player at a different position they have to us both in playoff runs.

I think you can massage the gorrilla in the room and see it as a challege of taking fantasy strategy to the chess level instead of only making checker moves.

Look at it as an opportunity rather than a problem that you have to hit over the head with a hammer.

C'Mon man. You aren't proposing trades to hurt your team and help the bad teams. You're dumping what you consider your dead weight for lottery tickets with the hope to use those lottery tickets to get better lottery tickets. That's fine and fair but you're managing your team.

How many stacked owners in a dynasty league are looking to take an older veteran player and your mid range pick for something valuable? No one. Seriously try to trade P. Manning, Drew Brees, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, Vincent Jackson, Adrian Peterson, or Matt Forte in a dynasty league. Very rarely will anyone pay their value for them. I even see owners complaining that J. Charles is too old now. Everyone wants the young whether they are a 11 game winning owner or a 2 game winning owner.

I don't lie.

I have been doing this strategy for years and its paid off handsomely for me, for example.

Last year. We had our first new-owner in a long standing dynasty league. The newbie took over a so-so team and made frenetic trades that zapped him of all starting RBs and depth. He was screwed in the first 24 hours he took over his team. I watched and he was 0-3 and heading for an 0-fer season and I couldnt' have that so I stepped in and gave him a Don Corleone offer.

This particular deal is not of the variety I have described above but this happened last year.

I offered him my 2014 2nd round pick, my 2014 3rd round pick, LB Luke Keuchly, RB Daryl Richardsonn, and RB Ahamad Bradshaw. I was asking for his 2014 1st round pick in return.

This was early last year. Bradshaw was coming off a 1,000 yard season, Keuchly is and IDP stud, Richardson was still in the running for the Rams starting gig, throw in both 2nd and 3rd round picks and it was a landslide deal in his favor.

I not only made the offer I told him how he screwed up trading away all of his starting RBs and depth. I also told him how IDP stud LBers scored on a level with #2 starting RBs. He leapt at the deal.

THE VERY NEXT DAY!!!!!!!!!!

Indianopolis traded for RB Trent Richardson and not long after Bradshaw landed on IR.

He did benefit from the trade last year and improved his record but now I hold the 3rd pick in our upcoming rookie draft. I actually got hurt last year from that deal. I had only my second losing season ever playing fantasy football but now I'm sitting pretty going forward.

Yes yes I do indeed use that strategy. I have used it for years but last year's trade was unique in its blockbuster size. Many times I have traded away 3rd RBs or 3rd WRs especially if I had drafted a rookie or had been sitting on a guy I had developed on my bench.

I didn't say you were a liar. I said you are doing that to benefit your team and not is. Making him a 2-11 team instead of 0-13 doesn't help. You took his #1 pick away for garbage and robbed him of getting an elite player like Watkins. Congrats?

Wrong!

It wasn't gargabe. Keuchly is an IDP stud. He did score more than any #2 RB in our league last year and he will going forward. The fact Bradshaw fizzled doesn't dimish he was the Colts starting RB at the time I made the trade and he was coming off of a 1,300 yard season. Also Richardson was the starting RB with the Rams at the time, Stacy hadn't emerged. Its too easy to MMQB a trade and say I offered garbage. BS.

Their was no way anyone could have seen the T-Rich trade coming. Bradshaw getting injured was over a fifty percent chance of happening but landing on IR was not on the horizon when the deal was on the table nor was Zack Stacy taking Richardson's job. Keuchly alone plus 2nd and 3rd round picks still equals or even exceeds the value of this year's 3rd pick especially in this year's deep draft.

 

[Freelove]

Great thread.

I think we'll all been there at one point where weak/disinterested/ill-informed owners have the ability to ruin top-level competition. Even if you have a strong league their is always a weak link or two.

Its tough if you play with good guys/girls where you don't want to make draconian rules that ruin the 'fun' aspect of fantasy football.

Still bad teams kill competition. They make bad trades, they run their teams into the ground and inflate the records of other teams so I try to help behind the scene in my league.

If I find myself with a surplus at a certain position that could help out one of those teams I make a point to seek out those bad teams first to propose lopsided one-sided dealks in the favor of those teams in order to try and help them out.

I get back mid-level dynasty rookie picks in the future and that gives me options. I can package those picks with my own to move-up or make a package of mid-level picks with older veteran players and propose a trade with a more 'competative' team in my league who might have a need of a vet player at a certain position and where I might need an older veteran player at a different position they have to us both in playoff runs.

I think you can massage the gorrilla in the room and see it as a challege of taking fantasy strategy to the chess level instead of only making checker moves.

Look at it as an opportunity rather than a problem that you have to hit over the head with a hammer.

C'Mon man. You aren't proposing trades to hurt your team and help the bad teams. You're dumping what you consider your dead weight for lottery tickets with the hope to use those lottery tickets to get better lottery tickets. That's fine and fair but you're managing your team.

How many stacked owners in a dynasty league are looking to take an older veteran player and your mid range pick for something valuable? No one. Seriously try to trade P. Manning, Drew Brees, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, Vincent Jackson, Adrian Peterson, or Matt Forte in a dynasty league. Very rarely will anyone pay their value for them. I even see owners complaining that J. Charles is too old now. Everyone wants the young whether they are a 11 game winning owner or a 2 game winning owner.

I don't lie.

I have been doing this strategy for years and its paid off handsomely for me, for example.

Last year. We had our first new-owner in a long standing dynasty league. The newbie took over a so-so team and made frenetic trades that zapped him of all starting RBs and depth. He was screwed in the first 24 hours he took over his team. I watched and he was 0-3 and heading for an 0-fer season and I couldnt' have that so I stepped in and gave him a Don Corleone offer.

This particular deal is not of the variety I have described above but this happened last year.

I offered him my 2014 2nd round pick, my 2014 3rd round pick, LB Luke Keuchly, RB Daryl Richardsonn, and RB Ahamad Bradshaw. I was asking for his 2014 1st round pick in return.

This was early last year. Bradshaw was coming off a 1,000 yard season, Keuchly is and IDP stud, Richardson was still in the running for the Rams starting gig, throw in both 2nd and 3rd round picks and it was a landslide deal in his favor.

I not only made the offer I told him how he screwed up trading away all of his starting RBs and depth. I also told him how IDP stud LBers scored on a level with #2 starting RBs. He leapt at the deal.

THE VERY NEXT DAY!!!!!!!!!!

Indianopolis traded for RB Trent Richardson and not long after Bradshaw landed on IR.

He did benefit from the trade last year and improved his record but now I hold the 3rd pick in our upcoming rookie draft. I actually got hurt last year from that deal. I had only my second losing season ever playing fantasy football but now I'm sitting pretty going forward.

Yes yes I do indeed use that strategy. I have used it for years but last year's trade was unique in its blockbuster size. Many times I have traded away 3rd RBs or 3rd WRs especially if I had drafted a rookie or had been sitting on a guy I had developed on my bench.

I didn't say you were a liar. I said you are doing that to benefit your team and not is. Making him a 2-11 team instead of 0-13 doesn't help. You took his #1 pick away for garbage and robbed him of getting an elite player like Watkins. Congrats?

Keuchly is an IDP stud. He did score more than any #2 RB in our league last year and he will going forward.

Yeah, I've used the old, "A good kicker will score more than most RB's" line when bargaining with rubes, too. It's just one way to capitalize on FF'ers who don't understand value curves. But let's not pretend it's something it isn't. IDP's add a new twist to the game, but in terms of value, they pretty much amount to slightly more predictable kickers.

 

[cstu]

Why would you not want fish in your league?

Because I play FF for the challenge, not the money.

It's much easier for me to make money another way and bad owners ruin my enjoyment of FF.

 

[ShaHBucks]

This is no different than "drafting with guppies"

I get the comparison, but unlike the draft, for those owners who refuse to partake in the trade predation, there is a distinct disadvantage.

Was it unethical to draft Knowshon Moreno in the double digit rounds in all of my leagues last season? Or pick up Nick Foles? Either way, you're exploiting inefficiencies in the market for your benefit. Its the name of the game. Maybe bad owners should play in weekly leagues or something.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Great thread.

I think we'll all been there at one point where weak/disinterested/ill-informed owners have the ability to ruin top-level competition. Even if you have a strong league their is always a weak link or two.

Its tough if you play with good guys/girls where you don't want to make draconian rules that ruin the 'fun' aspect of fantasy football.

Still bad teams kill competition. They make bad trades, they run their teams into the ground and inflate the records of other teams so I try to help behind the scene in my league.

If I find myself with a surplus at a certain position that could help out one of those teams I make a point to seek out those bad teams first to propose lopsided one-sided dealks in the favor of those teams in order to try and help them out.

I get back mid-level dynasty rookie picks in the future and that gives me options. I can package those picks with my own to move-up or make a package of mid-level picks with older veteran players and propose a trade with a more 'competative' team in my league who might have a need of a vet player at a certain position and where I might need an older veteran player at a different position they have to us both in playoff runs.

I think you can massage the gorrilla in the room and see it as a challege of taking fantasy strategy to the chess level instead of only making checker moves.

Look at it as an opportunity rather than a problem that you have to hit over the head with a hammer.

C'Mon man. You aren't proposing trades to hurt your team and help the bad teams. You're dumping what you consider your dead weight for lottery tickets with the hope to use those lottery tickets to get better lottery tickets. That's fine and fair but you're managing your team.

How many stacked owners in a dynasty league are looking to take an older veteran player and your mid range pick for something valuable? No one. Seriously try to trade P. Manning, Drew Brees, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, Vincent Jackson, Adrian Peterson, or Matt Forte in a dynasty league. Very rarely will anyone pay their value for them. I even see owners complaining that J. Charles is too old now. Everyone wants the young whether they are a 11 game winning owner or a 2 game winning owner.

I don't lie.

I have been doing this strategy for years and its paid off handsomely for me, for example.

Last year. We had our first new-owner in a long standing dynasty league. The newbie took over a so-so team and made frenetic trades that zapped him of all starting RBs and depth. He was screwed in the first 24 hours he took over his team. I watched and he was 0-3 and heading for an 0-fer season and I couldnt' have that so I stepped in and gave him a Don Corleone offer.

This particular deal is not of the variety I have described above but this happened last year.

I offered him my 2014 2nd round pick, my 2014 3rd round pick, LB Luke Keuchly, RB Daryl Richardsonn, and RB Ahamad Bradshaw. I was asking for his 2014 1st round pick in return.

This was early last year. Bradshaw was coming off a 1,000 yard season, Keuchly is and IDP stud, Richardson was still in the running for the Rams starting gig, throw in both 2nd and 3rd round picks and it was a landslide deal in his favor.

I not only made the offer I told him how he screwed up trading away all of his starting RBs and depth. I also told him how IDP stud LBers scored on a level with #2 starting RBs. He leapt at the deal.

THE VERY NEXT DAY!!!!!!!!!!

Indianopolis traded for RB Trent Richardson and not long after Bradshaw landed on IR.

He did benefit from the trade last year and improved his record but now I hold the 3rd pick in our upcoming rookie draft. I actually got hurt last year from that deal. I had only my second losing season ever playing fantasy football but now I'm sitting pretty going forward.

Yes yes I do indeed use that strategy. I have used it for years but last year's trade was unique in its blockbuster size. Many times I have traded away 3rd RBs or 3rd WRs especially if I had drafted a rookie or had been sitting on a guy I had developed on my bench.

I didn't say you were a liar. I said you are doing that to benefit your team and not is. Making him a 2-11 team instead of 0-13 doesn't help. You took his #1 pick away for garbage and robbed him of getting an elite player like Watkins. Congrats?

Wrong!

It wasn't gargabe. Keuchly is an IDP stud. He did score more than any #2 RB in our league last year and he will going forward. The fact Bradshaw fizzled doesn't dimish he was the Colts starting RB at the time I made the trade and he was coming off of a 1,300 yard season. Also Richardson was the starting RB with the Rams at the time, Stacy hadn't emerged. Its too easy to MMQB a trade and say I offered garbage. BS.

Their was no way anyone could have seen the T-Rich trade coming. Bradshaw getting injured was over a fifty percent chance of happening but landing on IR was not on the horizon when the deal was on the table nor was Zack Stacy taking Richardson's job. Keuchly alone plus 2nd and 3rd round picks still equals or even exceeds the value of this year's 3rd pick especially in this year's deep draft.

It was garbage. No one would trade the 1.01 pick for that collection of mess. Adding up a bunch of stuff and comparing it to one asset doesn't make any sense at all. Those 5 assets he's getting also causes him to cut 4 other assets to make it work. It's garbage no matter how much you want to make yourself feel better for trying to help the guy. LOL

 

[Phenix]

Part of the game. Get over it or get over fantasy football.

 

[cstu]

Great thread.

I think we'll all been there at one point where weak/disinterested/ill-informed owners have the ability to ruin top-level competition. Even if you have a strong league their is always a weak link or two.

Its tough if you play with good guys/girls where you don't want to make draconian rules that ruin the 'fun' aspect of fantasy football.

Still bad teams kill competition. They make bad trades, they run their teams into the ground and inflate the records of other teams so I try to help behind the scene in my league.

If I find myself with a surplus at a certain position that could help out one of those teams I make a point to seek out those bad teams first to propose lopsided one-sided dealks in the favor of those teams in order to try and help them out.

I get back mid-level dynasty rookie picks in the future and that gives me options. I can package those picks with my own to move-up or make a package of mid-level picks with older veteran players and propose a trade with a more 'competative' team in my league who might have a need of a vet player at a certain position and where I might need an older veteran player at a different position they have to us both in playoff runs.

I think you can massage the gorrilla in the room and see it as a challege of taking fantasy strategy to the chess level instead of only making checker moves.

Look at it as an opportunity rather than a problem that you have to hit over the head with a hammer.

Do this as well but I'm not doing it for purely altruistic reasons. If I have similar trades I could make then I'd much rather give a slightly better deal to a weak team than a strong team.

I also try to avoid giving any edge to a team I view as predatory, which ultimately means I rarely trade with them.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Keuchly is an IDP stud. He did score more than any #2 RB in our league last year and he will going forward.

Yeah, I've used the old, "A good kicker will score more than most RB's" line when bargaining with rubes, too. It's just one way to capitalize on FF'ers who don't understand value curves. But let's not pretend it's something it isn't. IDP's add a new twist to the game, but in terms of value, they pretty much amount to slightly more predictable kickers.

Don't know your IDP scoring but in our league LB studs score on par with the low-end #2 RBs.

Keuchly scored more than every #2 RB and was edging out low-end #1 RBs. Add he's young and will have a longer shelf life than a #2 RB.

In looking at the depth of this year's rookie class I am seriously considering trading my other 1st round pick to move-back into the meat of the 2nd round. Even factoring in that both RBs fizzled and that I wound up getting the 3rd pick in the first round, that owner still made out on that trade. I did not add that he was trying to build some sort of IDP advantage and was trading away RBs for IDP players so he is the one who insisted on Keuchly. I was offering a starting LBer but I wanted to keep Keuchly.

So his blind spot on valuing RBs coupled with his blinders for IDP players is why I had to put togher a package like that to satisfy him but he learned the value of RBs and I am sure he'll draft accordingly this year and he's sitting pretty if you look at the depth of this year's draft class and who I expect to fall to him.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Great thread.

I think we'll all been there at one point where weak/disinterested/ill-informed owners have the ability to ruin top-level competition. Even if you have a strong league their is always a weak link or two.

Its tough if you play with good guys/girls where you don't want to make draconian rules that ruin the 'fun' aspect of fantasy football.

Still bad teams kill competition. They make bad trades, they run their teams into the ground and inflate the records of other teams so I try to help behind the scene in my league.

If I find myself with a surplus at a certain position that could help out one of those teams I make a point to seek out those bad teams first to propose lopsided one-sided dealks in the favor of those teams in order to try and help them out.

I get back mid-level dynasty rookie picks in the future and that gives me options. I can package those picks with my own to move-up or make a package of mid-level picks with older veteran players and propose a trade with a more 'competative' team in my league who might have a need of a vet player at a certain position and where I might need an older veteran player at a different position they have to us both in playoff runs.

I think you can massage the gorrilla in the room and see it as a challege of taking fantasy strategy to the chess level instead of only making checker moves.

Look at it as an opportunity rather than a problem that you have to hit over the head with a hammer.

Do this as well but I'm not doing it for purely altruistic reasons. If I have similar trades I could make then I'd much rather give a slightly better deal to a weak team than a strong team.

I also try to avoid giving any edge to a team I view as predatory, which ultimately means I rarely trade with them.

Yes, exactly! You get it.

Its not altruism.

I help out the worst teams/owners in order to help them bump off my competition. Also you note C-Blocking any preditors and that is an added benefit of making these types of deals.

My intent when playing the regular fantasy season is to get into the post season. I don't care about dominating the regular season. I want my post-season ticket and I'll take my chances. If I see a weak team I time my deals to help prop them up AFTER I've played them and before they play teams who are on the brink of making the post season so they don't get an easy lay-up win.

I note BYE weeks and how my deals can help out teams land starters so its more than even what I've said or given examples of but its not altuistic.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Keuchly is an IDP stud. He did score more than any #2 RB in our league last year and he will going forward.

Yeah, I've used the old, "A good kicker will score more than most RB's" line when bargaining with rubes, too. It's just one way to capitalize on FF'ers who don't understand value curves. But let's not pretend it's something it isn't. IDP's add a new twist to the game, but in terms of value, they pretty much amount to slightly more predictable kickers.

Don't know your IDP scoring but in our league LB studs score on par with the low-end #2 RBs.

Keuchly scored more than every #2 RB and was edging out low-end #1 RBs. Add he's young and will have a longer shelf life than a #2 RB.

In my league Stephen Gostkowski outscored Le'Veon Bell, Alfred Morris, Gio Bernard, Zac Stacy, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice and many others last year. But owners keep getting pissed at me for offering them Gostkowski for those backs in trades. I can't imagine why.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Keuchly is an IDP stud. He did score more than any #2 RB in our league last year and he will going forward.

Yeah, I've used the old, "A good kicker will score more than most RB's" line when bargaining with rubes, too. It's just one way to capitalize on FF'ers who don't understand value curves. But let's not pretend it's something it isn't. IDP's add a new twist to the game, but in terms of value, they pretty much amount to slightly more predictable kickers.

Don't know your IDP scoring but in our league LB studs score on par with the low-end #2 RBs.

Keuchly scored more than every #2 RB and was edging out low-end #1 RBs. Add he's young and will have a longer shelf life than a #2 RB.

In my league Stephen Gostkowski outscored Le'Veon Bell, Alfred Morris, Gio Bernard, Zac Stacy, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice and many others last year. But owners keep getting pissed at me for offering them Gostkowski for those backs in trades. I can't imagine why.

Yeah, you like to argue for argument's sake. We get it.

The difference between Keuchly as an IDP stud not only in his prime but at the start of his career where he provides an IDP ADVANTAGE. Get it? AN IDP ADVANTAGE. Not just scoring on a level equal to low-end #2 RBs but an IDP advantage where he consistenty scores in the top-three of all LBers where the top ones hold a significant point advantage.

Significant scoring advantage is the key. That is exactly what that owner wanted but he did so at the expense of all of his starting RBs and more damaging to his team is he lost all RB depth/upside and he didn't understand that in our league he was screwed and that weakness would take him a few years to overcome so he needed an infusion immediately.

He didn't get it but he did get his IDP advantage and now he'll score RB depth or even starters with two 2nd round picks in this year's rookie dynasty draft.

 

[Porkchop Express]

This is a problem in most of the leagues Im in. It makes me want to join leagues where no trades are allowed.

 

[Donnybrook]

In my league Stephen Gostkowski outscored Le'Veon Bell, Alfred Morris, Gio Bernard, Zac Stacy, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice and many others last year. But owners keep getting pissed at me for offering them Gostkowski for those backs in trades. I can't imagine why.

In my league, we start 1 kicker and 3-4 linebackers. The implication is that every team can get and usually does have a good kicker but elite line backers are much more rare.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Keuchly is an IDP stud. He did score more than any #2 RB in our league last year and he will going forward.

Yeah, I've used the old, "A good kicker will score more than most RB's" line when bargaining with rubes, too. It's just one way to capitalize on FF'ers who don't understand value curves. But let's not pretend it's something it isn't. IDP's add a new twist to the game, but in terms of value, they pretty much amount to slightly more predictable kickers.

Don't know your IDP scoring but in our league LB studs score on par with the low-end #2 RBs.

Keuchly scored more than every #2 RB and was edging out low-end #1 RBs. Add he's young and will have a longer shelf life than a #2 RB.

In my league Stephen Gostkowski outscored Le'Veon Bell, Alfred Morris, Gio Bernard, Zac Stacy, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice and many others last year. But owners keep getting pissed at me for offering them Gostkowski for those backs in trades. I can't imagine why.

Yeah, you like to argue for argument's sake. We get it.

The difference between Keuchly as an IDP stud not only in his prime but at the start of his career where he provides an IDP ADVANTAGE. Get it? AN IDP ADVANTAGE. Not just scoring on a level equal to low-end #2 RBs but an IDP advantage where he consistenty scores in the top-three of all LBers where the top ones hold a significant point advantage.

Significant scoring advantage is the key. That is exactly what that owner wanted but he did so at the expense of all of his starting RBs and more damaging to his team is he lost all RB depth/upside and he didn't understand that in our league he was screwed and that weakness would take him a few years to overcome so he needed an infusion immediately.

He didn't get it but he did get his IDP advantage and now he'll score RB depth or even starters with two 2nd round picks in this year's rookie dynasty draft.

And you like to justify your BS trades just for the sake of it?

Would you rather have Kuechly and some schuck like Dwayne Bowe or Sammy Watkins and someone like DeAndre Levy?

The guy would have been much better off keeping his #1 pick. Crappy teams rarely, if ever, benefit by trading their #1 picks. But you know that already and it's why you offered a bunch of junk for it and then talked the guy into why it helps him.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

This is a problem in most of the leagues Im in. It makes me want to join leagues where no trades are allowed.

That would be incredibly boring. And way, way, way less active than all the leagues I'm in, personally. Other than blind bidding/waivers, setting your lineup, and the draft each year there'd be nothing to do. Kills the point of dynasty IMO.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Another rule of thumb. When someone makes me an offer and starts to tell me why it benefits me it's a 99.9% chance it's total garbage.

 

[Christo]

Another rule of thumb. When someone makes me an offer and starts to tell me why it benefits me it's a 99.9% chance it's total garbage.

Here's one I always like--Hey, you're loaded at one position, give me one of your best at that position and I'll send you 2, 3 or 4 players at different positions. For some reason, none of those players are ever good enough to crack your starting line-up. Plus, you'd have to ditch 1, 2 or 3 guys you've stashed to make the trade work. Quantity almost never makes up for quality.

 

[Drop]

I would like to hear more about experiences in no trade leagues. Does the ability to make a "fair" trade outweigh the problems of lopsided trades and how they affect the integrity and competitive balance for everyone in the league?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

And you like to justify your BS trades just for the sake of it?

Would you rather have Kuechly and some schuck like Dwayne Bowe or Sammy Watkins and someone like DeAndre Levy?

The guy would have been much better off keeping his #1 pick. Crappy teams rarely, if ever, benefit by trading their #1 picks. But you know that already and it's why you offered a bunch of junk for it and then talked the guy into why it helps him.

You either don't play IDP/dynasty or have a scoring system that doesn't reflect LB production in fantasy points. You honestly do not get how valuable Keuchly is in some IDP leagues and are seriously undervaluing him.

I had two of the top-ten IDP LB scorers and my top guy scored 125 pts less than the top LBer. The top QBs always hold a significant point advantage over mid-level #1 QBs in our league. Only a handful of RBs do that but outside of Peterson that revolves to different guys each year. At TE it was Gronk and Jimmy. At LB that same significant point advantage holds true so if you hold one of those guys you hold a significant scoring advantage and if you are able to land an IDP LB stud at the begining of his career you'll have that advantage over the rest of the league for a long time. Its just like the guys who owned Gronk or Jimmy at TE or who hold AdP at RB or Brees or Aarron/Peyton at QB. I have no idea why you can't see that unless you don't play IDP or are just wanting to argue your point for arugment's sake.

Add, I was not trading for the 3rd pick in the 2014 draft. I was trading for a future #1 TBD. At the time of the deal I got nothing last year to help my team. My team lost a stud IDP LB and RB depth. The only advantage I got last year was that I was able to clear room on my bench but I like to operate with a skinny bench so I can manuever to cover BYEs and I like open spots on my bench to pluck developmental guys for the future.

Helping out weak teams so they can knock of my competition and C-blocking their ability to make preditory trades while making my own lopsided deal to get their #1 prevented any preditor from getting their fangs into his top pick in a 'bad trade'. I did not offer a bad trade.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Keuchly is an IDP stud. He did score more than any #2 RB in our league last year and he will going forward.

Yeah, I've used the old, "A good kicker will score more than most RB's" line when bargaining with rubes, too. It's just one way to capitalize on FF'ers who don't understand value curves. But let's not pretend it's something it isn't. IDP's add a new twist to the game, but in terms of value, they pretty much amount to slightly more predictable kickers.

Don't know your IDP scoring but in our league LB studs score on par with the low-end #2 RBs.

Keuchly scored more than every #2 RB and was edging out low-end #1 RBs. Add he's young and will have a longer shelf life than a #2 RB.

In my league Stephen Gostkowski outscored Le'Veon Bell, Alfred Morris, Gio Bernard, Zac Stacy, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice and many others last year. But owners keep getting pissed at me for offering them Gostkowski for those backs in trades. I can't imagine why.

Yeah, you like to argue for argument's sake. We get it. The difference between Keuchly as an IDP stud not only in his prime but at the start of his career where he provides an IDP ADVANTAGE. Get it? AN IDP ADVANTAGE. Not just scoring on a level equal to low-end #2 RBs but an IDP advantage where he consistenty scores in the top-three of all LBers where the top ones hold a significant point advantage.

Significant scoring advantage is the key. That is exactly what that owner wanted but he did so at the expense of all of his starting RBs and more damaging to his team is he lost all RB depth/upside and he didn't understand that in our league he was screwed and that weakness would take him a few years to overcome so he needed an infusion immediately.

He didn't get it but he did get his IDP advantage and now he'll score RB depth or even starters with two 2nd round picks in this year's rookie dynasty draft.

And you like to justify your BS trades just for the sake of it?

Would you rather have Kuechly and some schuck like Dwayne Bowe or Sammy Watkins and someone like DeAndre Levy?

The guy would have been much better off keeping his #1 pick. Crappy teams rarely, if ever, benefit by trading their #1 picks. But you know that already and it's why you offered a bunch of junk for it and then talked the guy into why it helps him.

Same crappy team from earlier, I traded 1.02 for a late 1st and 2 2nds last season. Guys in the league actually started a message board just to flame me for this. The picks turned out to be Tavon Austin(1.02) for Zac Stacy(1.14), Ziggy Ansah(2.01) and Knile Davis(2.14). I traded Ansah straight up for Chandler Jones later and flipped Zac Stacy for picks this offseason after getting a RB1 year out of him. Who benifited the most? Even "good" owners can be exploited in various ways. Shortsided and overconfident owners are exploitable too. If that guy knows what he is doing with those picks, he could make that trade look good in a year or two. As of now he has to sit and take the criticism from guys like you. That's if he knows what he's doing of course. I'd take Kuechly and Bowe btw

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Keuchly is an IDP stud. He did score more than any #2 RB in our league last year and he will going forward.

Yeah, I've used the old, "A good kicker will score more than most RB's" line when bargaining with rubes, too. It's just one way to capitalize on FF'ers who don't understand value curves. But let's not pretend it's something it isn't. IDP's add a new twist to the game, but in terms of value, they pretty much amount to slightly more predictable kickers.

Don't know your IDP scoring but in our league LB studs score on par with the low-end #2 RBs.

Keuchly scored more than every #2 RB and was edging out low-end #1 RBs. Add he's young and will have a longer shelf life than a #2 RB.

In my league Stephen Gostkowski outscored Le'Veon Bell, Alfred Morris, Gio Bernard, Zac Stacy, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice and many others last year. But owners keep getting pissed at me for offering them Gostkowski for those backs in trades. I can't imagine why.

Yeah, you like to argue for argument's sake. We get it. The difference between Keuchly as an IDP stud not only in his prime but at the start of his career where he provides an IDP ADVANTAGE. Get it? AN IDP ADVANTAGE. Not just scoring on a level equal to low-end #2 RBs but an IDP advantage where he consistenty scores in the top-three of all LBers where the top ones hold a significant point advantage.

Significant scoring advantage is the key. That is exactly what that owner wanted but he did so at the expense of all of his starting RBs and more damaging to his team is he lost all RB depth/upside and he didn't understand that in our league he was screwed and that weakness would take him a few years to overcome so he needed an infusion immediately.

He didn't get it but he did get his IDP advantage and now he'll score RB depth or even starters with two 2nd round picks in this year's rookie dynasty draft.

And you like to justify your BS trades just for the sake of it?

Would you rather have Kuechly and some schuck like Dwayne Bowe or Sammy Watkins and someone like DeAndre Levy?

The guy would have been much better off keeping his #1 pick. Crappy teams rarely, if ever, benefit by trading their #1 picks. But you know that already and it's why you offered a bunch of junk for it and then talked the guy into why it helps him.

Same crappy team from earlier, I traded 1.02 for a late 1st and 2 2nds last season. Guys in the league actually started a message board just to flame me for this. The picks turned out to be Tavon Austin(1.02) for Zac Stacy(1.14), Ziggy Ansah(2.01) and Knile Davis(2.14). I traded Ansah straight up for Chandler Jones later and flipped Zac Stacy for picks this offseason after getting a RB1 year out of him. Who benifited the most? Even "good" owners can be exploited in various ways. Shortsided and overconfident owners are exploitable too. If that guy knows what he is doing with those picks, he could make that trade look good in a year or two. As of now he has to sit and take the criticism from guys like you. That's if he knows what he's doing of course.I'd take Kuechly and Bowe btw

If that guy knows what he's doing he could make that trade look good in a year or two. LOL. You mean if he picks the best available option at both 2nd rounders it might look good. Even David Dodds couldn't do that with certainty. And Bracie already established that the guy doesn't know what he is doing. That's why Bracie is trying to help the guy out. LOL

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

And you like to justify your BS trades just for the sake of it?

Would you rather have Kuechly and some schuck like Dwayne Bowe or Sammy Watkins and someone like DeAndre Levy?

The guy would have been much better off keeping his #1 pick. Crappy teams rarely, if ever, benefit by trading their #1 picks. But you know that already and it's why you offered a bunch of junk for it and then talked the guy into why it helps him.

You either don't play IDP/dynasty or have a scoring system that doesn't reflect LB production in fantasy points. You honestly do not get how valuable Keuchly is in some IDP leagues and are seriously undervaluing him.

I had two of the top-ten IDP LB scorers and my top guy scored 125 pts less than the top LBer. The top QBs always hold a significant point advantage over mid-level #1 QBs in our league. Only a handful of RBs do that but outside of Peterson that revolves to different guys each year. At TE it was Gronk and Jimmy. At LB that same significant point advantage holds true so if you hold one of those guys you hold a significant scoring advantage and if you are able to land an IDP LB stud at the begining of his career you'll have that advantage over the rest of the league for a long time. Its just like the guys who owned Gronk or Jimmy at TE or who hold AdP at RB or Brees or Aarron/Peyton at QB. I have no idea why you can't see that unless you don't play IDP or are just wanting to argue your point for arugment's sake.

Add, I was not trading for the 3rd pick in the 2014 draft. I was trading for a future #1 TBD. At the time of the deal I got nothing last year to help my team. My team lost a stud IDP LB and RB depth. The only advantage I got last year was that I was able to clear room on my bench but I like to operate with a skinny bench so I can manuever to cover BYEs and I like open spots on my bench to pluck developmental guys for the future.

Helping out weak teams so they can knock of my competition and C-blocking their ability to make preditory trades while making my own lopsided deal to get their #1 prevented any preditor from getting their fangs into his top pick in a 'bad trade'. I did not offer a bad trade.

You acquired a future #1 pick from a terrible team. You knew you were acquiring a top 3 pick. You even said he would be winless without your generous offer so you cost him the 1.01 pick.

I don't care if Luke Kuechly produces LB1 stats for the next decade no one in their right mind is trading the 1.01 pick for him even if they get a bunch of other "stuff" in addition to it. Go check out the Sammy Watkins trades going on right now. Go see where Sammy Watkins is drafted in a startup right now and where Kuechly gets drafted. It's not even close.

I'm not faulting YOU for your trade. I'm giving you crap because you're acting like you're doing some schmuck owner that doesn't know what he's doing a favor. You're not. You're doing yourself a favor.

And I play in plenty of IDP leagues. And pretty damn successful in them too. I totally understand the value of Linebackers, draft picks, and skill players.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Why not cherry pick the leagues you are in and start a league with 16 active knowledgeable owners? A lot more fun than blindly joining a league and hoping everyone knows what they're doing and cringing every time you see a trade email in your inbox.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

You acquired a future #1 pick from a terrible team. You knew you were acquiring a top 3 pick. You even said he would be winless without your generous offer so you cost him the 1.01 pick.

I don't care if Luke Kuechly produces LB1 stats for the next decade no one in their right mind is trading the 1.01 pick for him even if they get a bunch of other "stuff" in addition to it. Go check out the Sammy Watkins trades going on right now. Go see where Sammy Watkins is drafted in a startup right now and where Kuechly gets drafted. It's not even close.

I'm not faulting YOU for your trade. I'm giving you crap because you're acting like you're doing some schmuck owner that doesn't know what he's doing a favor. You're not. You're doing yourself a favor.

And I play in plenty of IDP leagues. And pretty damn successful in them too. I totally understand the value of Linebackers, draft picks, and skill players.

I've played fantasy football for awhile and the one thing I know is that no-one knows how a trade will turn out. So NO, I didn't KNOW I was trading away for a top three pick. No way in hell I KNEW anything other than I was clearing room on my bench and I got an opportunity to open a dialogue with that owner.

The guys in my league have all gotten better. Their were a few guys who were very shaky but they have significantly improved and a few are true sharks that I won't deal with.

That guy got a '2 by 4' upside the head from the preditors. By the time I made my deal with him he had been thru the ringer and the deals he got fleeced in were truly horrible trades. I explained how those guys sold him down the river and my deal was not a take-it or leave-it. I gave him multiple options that were even better but he had blinders on for Keuchly. THAT is thee guy he really wanted. I had what turned out to be the top four scoring RB on the table and the #6 scoring IDP LBer but he turned it down for Luke. I threw in Richardson just to clear more room on my bench but was trying to help him with his RB situation.

The point is he was a newbie to our league and every established league knows which position holds value in those established leagues. I traded away a 1,300 yard rusher and another starting RB and a top-three IDP LBer and 2nd and 3rd round picks for a future #1. I was not doing the guy a favor because my #1 priority was to clear room on my bench but losing Luke hurt my team last year becuase Sean F'ng Lee went down with an injury the very next week and I also lost my other starting LBer that week.

Glad you do well but I didn't do myself any favors in that trade. My onus was to stop the preditors, which I did, and to clear room on my bench. I figured I'd get a top-six pick but it turned out better than I'd imagined on one end but worse on another since I had a bad fantasy season by my standards.

And I think its a horrible idea for anyone to argue that leagues have to kill all trades because you might have a owners who are not trade savvy.

I learned from a much wiser league commishoner to allow all trades and have no constraints and let people learn by taking lumps. That guy took some lumps last year, he's not stupid, he was a newbie and had a vision of how he wanted to put his imprint on the team he took over but he's very active/enthusiastic and I have full confidence he'll dramatically improve. I have no doubt he will do much better going forward and turn into one of the best owners in our league.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Trade seems pretty fair to me. I recently traded the 1.07 for Kuechly in our 16 team league where he scored the same as the #10 RB this year and #8 RB last season. In a lot of leagues top LBers are gold.

 

[Doubledown1313]

I think Jim Mora said it best, "You think you know but you don't know."

A trade that looks bad for one owner can look great for him a little down the road. Fantasy owners always think they know better than another owner.

Trades get judged on the surface. Does anyone ever ask the reasoning behind the trade? Not that I've ever experienced.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

And I think its a horrible idea for anyone to argue that leagues have to kill all trades because you might have a owners who are not trade savvy.

Definitely on the same page here.

 

[Drop]

Why is it a horrible idea to argue that no trades makes collusion harder and shifts the skill moreso to predicting stats as apposed to exploiting people in negotiations? It's just a different skillset really. As a gambler I prefer the conditions of the game to be more in my control. Not having to worry about cheating or fleecing gives me more trust in the league.

 

[Freelove]

Trade seems pretty fair to me. I recently traded the 1.07 for Kuechly in our 16 team league where he scored the same as the #10 RB this year and #8 RB last season. In a lot of leagues top LBers are gold.

You would have to have really freaky rules for LB's to be gold.

K's also score like starting RB's. And just as with K's, LB'ers score such that the #20 LB is also competitive with the low-end starting RB's. There's just nowhere near enough stratification to them to make them worth more than late round selections.

In pretty major scoring systems from pretty major sites last year, the difference between the top RB and the #10 was like 150 points. The difference between #1 LB and #30 was about a third that. IDP's make watching the game interesting, but strategically, all they serve to do is weed out players who don't realize they amount to a half roster full of kickers.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Trade seems pretty fair to me. I recently traded the 1.07 for Kuechly in our 16 team league where he scored the same as the #10 RB this year and #8 RB last season. In a lot of leagues top LBers are gold.

You would have to have really freaky rules for LB's to be gold.

K's also score like starting RB's. And just as with K's, LB'ers score such that the #20 LB is also competitive with the low-end starting RB's. There's just nowhere near enough stratification to them to make them worth more than late round selections.

In pretty major scoring systems from pretty major sites last year, the difference between the top RB and the #10 was like 150 points. The difference between #1 LB and #30 was about a third that. IDP's make watching the game interesting, but strategically, all they serve to do is weed out players who don't realize they amount to a half roster full of kickers.

Difference between RB 1 and 10 was 140 points, difference between LB 1 and 30 was 110 points. Start 1-2 RBs and 3-4 LBers. Top LBers in the rookie draft are typically taken between picks 1.12 and 1.16. Mosely was taken at the 1.16 this year. There are plenty of leagues out there with defensive scoring that tries to get close to offensive scoring, you should try one sometime.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Trade seems pretty fair to me. I recently traded the 1.07 for Kuechly in our 16 team league where he scored the same as the #10 RB this year and #8 RB last season. In a lot of leagues top LBers are gold.

You would have to have really freaky rules for LB's to be gold.

K's also score like starting RB's. And just as with K's, LB'ers score such that the #20 LB is also competitive with the low-end starting RB's. There's just nowhere near enough stratification to them to make them worth more than late round selections.

In pretty major scoring systems from pretty major sites last year, the difference between the top RB and the #10 was like 150 points. The difference between #1 LB and #30 was about a third that. IDP's make watching the game interesting, but strategically, all they serve to do is weed out players who don't realize they amount to a half roster full of kickers.

Difference between RB 1 and 10 was 140 points, difference between LB 1 and 30 was 110 points. Start 1-2 RBs and 3-4 LBers. Top LBers in the rookie draft are typically taken between picks 1.12 and 1.16. Mosely was taken at the 1.16 this year. There are plenty of leagues out there with defensive scoring that tries to get close to offensive scoring, you should try one sometime.

You can manipulate the scoring all you want. Linebackers aren't drafted that high in rookie drafts. People don't trade top 10 RB or Top 10 WR especially 21 year old ones for any linebacker. No matter how badly you want to think your IDP league is the best.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Trade seems pretty fair to me. I recently traded the 1.07 for Kuechly in our 16 team league where he scored the same as the #10 RB this year and #8 RB last season. In a lot of leagues top LBers are gold.

You would have to have really freaky rules for LB's to be gold.

K's also score like starting RB's. And just as with K's, LB'ers score such that the #20 LB is also competitive with the low-end starting RB's. There's just nowhere near enough stratification to them to make them worth more than late round selections.

In pretty major scoring systems from pretty major sites last year, the difference between the top RB and the #10 was like 150 points. The difference between #1 LB and #30 was about a third that. IDP's make watching the game interesting, but strategically, all they serve to do is weed out players who don't realize they amount to a half roster full of kickers.

Difference between RB 1 and 10 was 140 points, difference between LB 1 and 30 was 110 points. Start 1-2 RBs and 3-4 LBers. Top LBers in the rookie draft are typically taken between picks 1.12 and 1.16. Mosely was taken at the 1.16 this year. There are plenty of leagues out there with defensive scoring that tries to get close to offensive scoring, you should try one sometime.

You can manipulate the scoring all you want. Linebackers aren't drafted that high in rookie drafts. People don't trade top 10 RB or Top 10 WR especially 21 year old ones for any linebacker. No matter how badly you want to think your IDP league is the best.

A. Rookie picks in the middle and end of the 1st aren't top 10 RBs and WRs

B. Yes, linebackers are drafted that high in some leagues

 

[ghostguy123]

This is no different than "drafting with guppies"

I get the comparison, but unlike the draft, for those owners who refuse to partake in the trade predation, there is a distinct disadvantage.

that and in a redraft league, its over after that year.

Dynasty leagues you gotta live with the nonsense

 

[ghostguy123]

This is a problem in most of the leagues Im in. It makes me want to join leagues where no trades are allowed.

I dont think redraft leagues should have trades. Inevitably someone gets hit with injuries, then trades a guy like Calvin for Woodhead, Reggie Wayne, and FLeener

 

[ghostguy123]

I think Jim Mora said it best, "You think you know but you don't know."

A trade that looks bad for one owner can look great for him a little down the road. Fantasy owners always think they know better than another owner.

Trades get judged on the surface. Does anyone ever ask the reasoning behind the trade? Not that I've ever experienced.

You make enough stupid looking poor value trades, and your team has no chance.

I might think Peterson has NOTHING left, and that a 3rd round rookie pick is worth more. These bad owners might just go offer him up for a 3rd. I dont care how that turns out in a year or whatever, it is a HORRIBLE STUPID HORRENDOUS IDIOTIC trade!!!!!

If you want a 3rd rounder for him, fine, but have the two brain cells it takes to know you can get a 3rd rounder as a THROW IN for that deal.

 

[Porkchop Express]

Why is it a horrible idea to argue that no trades makes collusion harder and shifts the skill moreso to predicting stats as apposed to exploiting people in negotiations? It's just a different skillset really. As a gambler I prefer the conditions of the game to be more in my control. Not having to worry about cheating or fleecing gives me more trust in the league.

Yeah Im starting to feel more and more this way. Some leagues Im in, its more about who can rip off another owner rather than who can draft and make lineup decisions best.

 

[kurtrudder]

Zealots does exactly what you describe and has been going for a decade

That's interesting. It has been several years since I participated in a Zealots league. I don't remember a relegation feature.

I'm intrigued by the idea of starting a four league pyramid where results are aggregated within leagues over time periods of 3-4 years and the teams with the best/worst results during that time frame are moved up/down accordingly. That illustrates one of the aspects of dynasty FF that I dislike though. It's a fairly slow moving game. Like a single table poker tournament played out over the course of years. A team could quite easily abandon the league within the 3-4 year window, which would complicate the process considerably. I don't think you can use a 1 year window because it forces a short-sighted win-now approach and is more prone to variance. I guess it might be more ideal than having 3-4 perennial donators who spew value in a constant upward stream though.

oh wait, i was mixing up zealots with no mercy. no mercy does relegation. sorry

I really like the concept from the OP and mentioned above by Sig. I wonder though how you could make it work for a dynasty league since you would need to transfer rosters between leagues?

 

[Biabreakable]

Zealots does exactly what you describe and has been going for a decade

That's interesting. It has been several years since I participated in a Zealots league. I don't remember a relegation feature.

I'm intrigued by the idea of starting a four league pyramid where results are aggregated within leagues over time periods of 3-4 years and the teams with the best/worst results during that time frame are moved up/down accordingly. That illustrates one of the aspects of dynasty FF that I dislike though. It's a fairly slow moving game. Like a single table poker tournament played out over the course of years. A team could quite easily abandon the league within the 3-4 year window, which would complicate the process considerably. I don't think you can use a 1 year window because it forces a short-sighted win-now approach and is more prone to variance. I guess it might be more ideal than having 3-4 perennial donators who spew value in a constant upward stream though.

oh wait, i was mixing up zealots with no mercy. no mercy does relegation. sorry

I really like the concept from the OP and mentioned above by Sig. I wonder though how you could make it work for a dynasty league since you would need to transfer rosters between leagues?

Promotion/Relegation is a pretty nice format but it does not fit the concepts of dynasty very well because in dynasty you are making moves based on being able to keep the same players from year to year.

I am not sure how no mercy handles this issue. Do they redraft after pro/rel? Do they compete with rosters carried over and then you have duplicate ownership of some players? How would you be able to trade in that kind of format?

If you did pro/rel every 3 seasons with a new start up draft would be one way I could see that working. Obviously that is still not the same thing as dynasty format, as then owners would only be concerned about 3 then 2 then one season in rotation.

 

[Onions]

Why would you not want fish in your league?

Because I play FF for the challenge, not the money.It's much easier for me to make money another way and bad owners ruin my enjoyment of FF.

Summed up perfectly, cstu.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Todd Andrews]

. The league founder tried to argue to me that it was just a valuation difference of opinion, which happens, but it was just too big for that to fly. When I asked him whether he gave the new owner any advice on asset valuation or league rules, he clammed up quick.

I don't understand this point at all. In all of my years of FF and across all my leagues, I have never heard or seen this done before. I've joined leagues that have already started, created leagues, been in them from inception, you name it. This has never once happened. Why is it the commish's job to give a crash course on how the league works and provide a coaching season to new entrants? That person should certainly answer questions if they are asked and within reason. The commish is obligated to provide the league rules, scoring and any other pertinent information but not obligated to spell it out and quiz a guy. Hopefully the commish did enough homework on who they are allowing I to the league to prevent lazy owners. Still, it's impossible to be 100% effective in who you have in any league. The obligation of understanding things about the league is up to the individual owner and entrant. You read the rules, research the scoring, do homework on rosters and previous drafts. The onus is on the participants by and large.

Of course. But in the example I gave, there was a good ff owner redraft owner coming into a longstanding and complex dynasty league where there were contract years, a rookie draft, restricted free agency and a compensation system (every team gets $100/year) using currency which had to be managed in conjunction with the value of the rookie picks, FA rights auction, etc. In that scenario, it takes a lot to get up to speed on various valuations and how they work together, particularly if you are not an experienced dynasty owner in that type of league, and one really lopsided trade let alone two, can really throw off league balance for years. For example, in the example I gave, the new owner didnt really understand how valuable the currency was in conjunction with rookie picks and the free agency auction and within two weeks of him picking up a bad team as a new owner, the league commish essentially traded him Larry Fitzgerald with a 3 year contract for his 1.01 and $75 and another player arguably valued at around $20. In that league a rookie first round pick is valued at around $20 so it was essentially Fitz for around 6-7 first round picks. After, he had Fitz, no rookie first rounder (1.01), and NO money to keep his restricted free agents or bid on others free agents in the auction....and I wont get into the other trade he did right after the Fitz trade. The end result was that his team was stripped of almost all of its assets of all types and two already very competitive teams got massive infusions of cash, rookie picks and good players which allowed them to control the free agent auction and dominate the rookie draft that year. So two trades by a very inexperienced owner (in this type of league) totally changed the league balance.

I am not suggesting anyone needs to "coach" a new owner--although I actually tried to help him understand the valuation complexities. I am suggesting taking advantage of him really hurt the league and while those two owners may have great teams for years, one other owner has already left the league after this happened, because of the imbalance created, and I think after another 4 win season and more understanding of how bad he got snookered, that new owner will probably leave too.

 

[habsfan]

If you play dynasty and are on this website in May, chances are you're likely in the top quartile of people who "do" fantasy football (skill wise). That means (likely) you're better than the other 75%.

I mostly lurk here but I get the impression sometimes that there is a "new dynasty startup" occurring roughly every twelve and a half seconds. Maybe there are just too many leagues and too many "players"?