The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (1 Viewer)

[bigbottom]

Asking any family law folks out there:

A month ago, Ex and I have exchanged numbers/ emails (we're off by a ways) on an updated child support agreement. Sadly, all of the hard work I've done to advance my career is now going to be flushed thanks to her lack of pursuing her career. I could rant for days... Masters degree, licensed Architect making 47k teaching part time  my with a 2 year degree busting my hump. Got a huge raise last year after spending 6 years accumulating debt paying for her tattoos and motorcycles while she opened up an in home daycare and charged me to watch her own children. Am I bitter? lol. I digress...

Last exchange (two weeks ago) was (her) "OK fine, I've copied my lawyer on this email, lawyer please file the motion with the state."

So I've been expecting (paper) mail from the county courthouse and figured I'd have my day in court to tell them the reasons why she doesn't deserve my well earned raise. But instead, an email from her lawyer.

Hi Mr. XXXX

I represent the interests of Beelzebub with respect to a possible child support modification.  I am wondering if we could speak about the calculations we have come to and if you would be able to assent to the change in support.  We are happy to send you our calculations. 

Please let me know how it would be best to communicate.  

I have some time Friday afternoon if that works for you.

Signed, 

Right hand of the devil

I thought I would write back with- sure, send me what you have so far. I'll look it over.

But now I'm wondering if this is a trap. I feel I can handle myself in this negotiation but I don't want to screw this up either. 

Is this a trap?

I’m actually surprised by the lawyer’s letter asking to speak with you. In the jurisdictions where I’ve practiced, the first item in an initial communication like this would be to ask if you are represented by counsel, and if you are, the request would be to speak with your counsel (or you and your counsel) rather than just with you.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I'm not laughing at you, I've been through this and it is hell, but your post did make me laugh.  Praying for the best for you and that this quickly gets put behind you so you can lead the happier life you deserve. 

The lawyer I used is retired so I wasn’t sure what to do. Finding a new lawyer I trust without dropping a wad of cash on an unknown quantity with potentially little benefit was my hesitation. 
 

I started making calls yesterday, left a handful of voicemails for possible fits. I also called my retired lawyer. Very reassuring! He says no harm in finding out what they’re got. Then call (recommendation) and meet with him for an hour free consultation. Go from there. Man I love that guy, wish he hadn’t retired. 
 

Appreciate the well wishes and responses. 

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I’m actually surprised by the lawyer’s letter asking to speak with you. In the jurisdictions where I’ve practiced, the first item in an initial communication like this would be to ask if you are represented by counsel, and if you are, the request would be to speak with your counsel (or you and your counsel) rather than just with you.

Some googling led me to wonder if there is some procedural issue that I should avoid. The way it is worded led me to the conclusion that they’re in effect asking if I’m represented. 

 

[The_Man]

Quick question (and update) about my kid in law school.

If he has zero interest in BigLaw or academia, and about 2% interest in clerking, should he force himself to do write-on for the law review, even though he finds it boring and not something he would enjoy? He's a bit of a stress case and worries about not doing what he's "supposed" to do, while I'm telling him to find what interests and engages him and spend his time on that (especially since his scholarship means he won't have any student debt when he graduates).

He's now finished with the first 2 quarters of 1L at UChicago. Hasn't gotten his second quarter grades yet but was thrown for a bit of a loop when he finished at the median in all his first quarter classes. I was kind of like, "Well, welcome to the big leagues" but it was a blow to him.

The good news is he really likes his classes and classmates, and he's got a good summer internship lined up with the USAO for the Eastern District of NY (which means he gets to spend the summer living with his girlfriend in Brooklyn to boot). Am I wrong to tell him not to stress about law review?

 

[thecatch]

Hard to give definitive advice on something like that. Law review matters to a lot of potential employers (especially most judges hiring for clerkships), and doesn’t matter at all to others. It’s also a great way to network with other people in his class that are going to be a big deal in 10 years, and he’s only got one shot at being able to put that on his resume. I would always advise someone to go for it unless that person is really drowning or absolutely certain they won’t need that brass ring on their desired career path. 

 

[whoknew]

Quick question (and update) about my kid in law school.

If he has zero interest in BigLaw or academia, and about 2% interest in clerking, should he force himself to do write-on for the law review, even though he finds it boring and not something he would enjoy? He's a bit of a stress case and worries about not doing what he's "supposed" to do, while I'm telling him to find what interests and engages him and spend his time on that (especially since his scholarship means he won't have any student debt when he graduates).

He's now finished with the first 2 quarters of 1L at UChicago. Hasn't gotten his second quarter grades yet but was thrown for a bit of a loop when he finished at the median in all his first quarter classes. I was kind of like, "Well, welcome to the big leagues" but it was a blow to him.

The good news is he really likes his classes and classmates, and he's got a good summer internship lined up with the USAO for the Eastern District of NY (which means he gets to spend the summer living with his girlfriend in Brooklyn to boot). Am I wrong to tell him not to stress about law review?

He should try. It will probably not be worth it in the long run and nobody will care. But there’s at least a chance it will matter for some jobs. And on the off chance he wants one of those jobs, just do it. 
 

It’s kind of a pain and probably a waste - but just in case, I’d tell him to do it. 

 

[Ron Popeil]

Yes, he should try.  The writing practice alone should be worthwhile.  I realize there's probably no feedback (other than an offer to join LR) but it's something to discuss with peers and/or writing prof.  

There are more competitive extra-curriculars to come (mock trial, moot court).  If he really can't muster the motivation, ask what he's *going* to commit to.  

 

[Don Quixote]

Quick question (and update) about my kid in law school.

If he has zero interest in BigLaw or academia, and about 2% interest in clerking, should he force himself to do write-on for the law review, even though he finds it boring and not something he would enjoy? He's a bit of a stress case and worries about not doing what he's "supposed" to do, while I'm telling him to find what interests and engages him and spend his time on that (especially since his scholarship means he won't have any student debt when he graduates).

He's now finished with the first 2 quarters of 1L at UChicago. Hasn't gotten his second quarter grades yet but was thrown for a bit of a loop when he finished at the median in all his first quarter classes. I was kind of like, "Well, welcome to the big leagues" but it was a blow to him.

The good news is he really likes his classes and classmates, and he's got a good summer internship lined up with the USAO for the Eastern District of NY (which means he gets to spend the summer living with his girlfriend in Brooklyn to boot). Am I wrong to tell him not to stress about law review?

I'd suggest trying for it. It is hard to tell what will matter to an employer, and even what direction the future will hold (even if zero interest in that now). I can't say that I knew in my first year of law school that I'd go into tax law. Maybe your son has better direction than me.

I was on law review and thought it was a great experience. I enjoy research and writing though. And I do think it helped me with jobs coming out of law school.

 

[FBG26]

I'm going to dissent on law review. I did it because it was one of those things you are supposed to do, but I found it to be a colossal waste of time and so dull. Moot court was worthwhile though. 

 

[The_Man]

Yes, he should try.  The writing practice alone should be worthwhile.  I realize there's probably no feedback (other than an offer to join LR) but it's something to discuss with peers and/or writing prof.  

There are more competitive extra-curriculars to come (mock trial, moot court).  If he really can't muster the motivation, ask what he's *going* to commit to.  

I appreciate all the feedback. Mustering motivation to do things isn't exactly an issue for him. More like, he feels an obligation to jump through every hoop put in front of him - even those he has no interest in jumping through - and I'm trying to give him advice on whether or not he can give himself permission not to jump through this one. 

Clinics start in 2L and there's an International Human Rights Clinic that is right up his alley. I can much more see him getting fully engaged with that than law review  

 

[thecatch]

I appreciate all the feedback. Mustering motivation to do things isn't exactly an issue for him. More like, he feels an obligation to jump through every hoop put in front of him - even those he has no interest in jumping through - and I'm trying to give him advice on whether or not he can give himself permission not to jump through this one. 

Clinics start in 2L and there's an International Human Rights Clinic that is right up his alley. I can much more see him getting fully engaged with that than law review  

If that’s what he wants to do, maybe have him ask one of the profs involved in that clinic for advice re: law review. They could give some field-specific advice. I understand your fatherly perspective, but he should be really sure he won’t want the benefit of jumping through that hoop in the future before he passes on the chance. The importance of things like this can seem dumb to non-lawyers (and they should be, probably) but it is a significant decision.  

 

[bigbottom]

Quick question (and update) about my kid in law school.

If he has zero interest in BigLaw or academia, and about 2% interest in clerking, should he force himself to do write-on for the law review, even though he finds it boring and not something he would enjoy? He's a bit of a stress case and worries about not doing what he's "supposed" to do, while I'm telling him to find what interests and engages him and spend his time on that (especially since his scholarship means he won't have any student debt when he graduates).

He's now finished with the first 2 quarters of 1L at UChicago. Hasn't gotten his second quarter grades yet but was thrown for a bit of a loop when he finished at the median in all his first quarter classes. I was kind of like, "Well, welcome to the big leagues" but it was a blow to him.

The good news is he really likes his classes and classmates, and he's got a good summer internship lined up with the USAO for the Eastern District of NY (which means he gets to spend the summer living with his girlfriend in Brooklyn to boot). Am I wrong to tell him not to stress about law review?

I will just say this about the bolded.  I knew A LOT of 1Ls who had absolutely no interest in BigLaw that ultimately became 2nd and 3rd years who were VERY interested in BigLaw.  Huge paychecks can be enticing.  As for Law Review, I agree that it was a time suck and not a ton of fun, but there's no doubt that it's a really good thing to have on the resume coming out of law school.

By the way, I have to search back in this thread to see if I've ever told the story about the worst typo in Law Review history.  It happened at my Law Review, but several years before I got there.  It was epic, and actually resulted in a letter from Chief Justice Rehnquist.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

pro se motion practice

 

[bigbottom]

I looked back in the thread (and a broader search of the FFA) and it looks like I haven’t shared the Law Review typo story. It’s a story for a pretty narrow audience, so it’s not much of a cocktail story, but it may find an audience here. So here goes . . . 

For anyone who has been on a law school journal, you probably know how many countless hours go into editing and proofing an article or a note to make sure it is absolutely perfect. Multiple reviews by different editors at various stages of the process. And as the piece nears publication, there are a bunch of reviews for the sole purpose of finding any random grammatical error, citation error or typo.  We had one requirement where two editors would have the piece in front of them and alternate reading sections of the article out loud to one another, and then it finally gets reviewed by the Managing Editor and then the Editor in Chief. I provide all this as background to say that so much effort goes into the process that as far as I am aware there was not a single error or typo on the hundreds upon hundreds of pages of the Law Review during my tenure. 

BUT at one point several years before I attended, there was one element of the the Law Review publication that didn’t get scoured by dozens of eyeballs before going to print. And that was THE COVER.

Okay, this story is too long already. Apologies. In 1991, a recent graduate of my law school who later became a child and family law professor at Vanderbilt and Drexel, published her Note in the Law Review. The title of the Note was as follows:

Rethinking Adoption: A Federal Solution to the Problem of Permanency Planning for Children With Special Needs

I think you can get the gist of the Note’s topic from the title. Well, the published Note itself was pristine, after all the many levels of review. But the typo (the worst typo in Law Review history?) was on the cover.  There was a mistake made in the title of the Note on the cover which read as follows:

Rethinking Abortion: A Federal Solution to the Problem of Permanency Planning for Children With Special Needs

When you read the whole title with the typo, well, you come away with a much, much darker theme for the Note. The issue was published in hard copy and shipped to law libraries across the country. Once it was discovered, the author was absolutely crushed, and the editorial staff was mortified. Issues of the law review were also sent to the US Supreme Court, which reportedly prompted Chief Justice Rehnquist to pen a letter to the Editor in Chief to point out the unfortunate mistake on the cover. How would you like to get that letter as a law student?

The staff ended up sending out a corrected cover with a sticky back asking all the law libraries to stick the new cover on the issue. Not sure how many actually did it. Anyway, here’s the (corrected) cover:

Rethinking Adoption/Abortion

Congrats if you actually hung in there for this entire story. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I looked back in the thread (and a broader search of the FFA) and it looks like I haven’t shared the Law Review typo story. It’s a story for a pretty narrow audience, so it’s not much of a cocktail story, but it may find an audience here. So here goes . . . 

I went to the same law school as @bigbottomand was on law review a couple years after him.  We also had a major screw up just like two or three years after the one biggie just described.  Back then we would put bracketed bold messages to each other directly into the text during the editing process.  These were taken out as issues got resolved, but on one occasion somehow two of the messages were “hidden” instead of deleted, so they didn’t show up when we were all proofreading, but they re-emerged like zombies when the article was sent to the printer.

So we published with two “editors note” bold brackets actually still in the article.  The first was embarrassing but not terrible, something like “[this book can be found at such-and-such law library]”.  
 

The other one was a lot worse, it said something like “[Does anyone understand what he is talking about here?]”

We sent fixed copies of just the article for the author and fixed it on Westlaw but the hard copies sent to law libraries were never corrected.

 

[bigbottom]

Oh man, that might be worse!

 

[Zow]

Asking any family law folks out there:

A month ago, Ex and I have exchanged numbers/ emails (we're off by a ways) on an updated child support agreement. Sadly, all of the hard work I've done to advance my career is now going to be flushed thanks to her lack of pursuing her career. I could rant for days... Masters degree, licensed Architect making 47k teaching part time  my with a 2 year degree busting my hump. Got a huge raise last year after spending 6 years accumulating debt paying for her tattoos and motorcycles while she opened up an in home daycare and charged me to watch her own children. Am I bitter? lol. I digress...

Last exchange (two weeks ago) was (her) "OK fine, I've copied my lawyer on this email, lawyer please file the motion with the state."

So I've been expecting (paper) mail from the county courthouse and figured I'd have my day in court to tell them the reasons why she doesn't deserve my well earned raise. But instead, an email from her lawyer.

Hi Mr. XXXX

I represent the interests of Beelzebub with respect to a possible child support modification.  I am wondering if we could speak about the calculations we have come to and if you would be able to assent to the change in support.  We are happy to send you our calculations. 

Please let me know how it would be best to communicate.  

I have some time Friday afternoon if that works for you.

Signed, 

Right hand of the devil

I thought I would write back with- sure, send me what you have so far. I'll look it over.

But now I'm wondering if this is a trap. I feel I can handle myself in this negotiation but I don't want to screw this up either. 

Is this a trap?

I don’t think that’s a trap. 
 

While I would first encourage you to speak to a family law lawyer in your jurisdiction, in my jurisdiction there’s a rule of evidence that would keep the exchange you mentioned here inadmissible for court because it’s part of settlement negotiations. Also there’s a procedural rule in my jurisdiction that probably requires somebody in your position to give most of not all of your financials anyway. 

 

[Zow]

I’m actually surprised by the lawyer’s letter asking to speak with you. In the jurisdictions where I’ve practiced, the first item in an initial communication like this would be to ask if you are represented by counsel, and if you are, the request would be to speak with your counsel (or you and your counsel) rather than just with you.

Yeah this is pretty common in my jurisdiction and, per the advice of any ethics counsel I’ve ever talked to about it, I include every email I sent to a self represented opposing counsel (I write a lot of emails very similar to the one the poster received here) I include a line, usually in my last paragraph, about how I’m happy to answer what questions I can but I can’t give him or her legal advice and he or she should consider consulting with an independent attorney. 
 

That said the tone, tenor, and content of the email seem fine to me. 

 

[Zow]

pro se motion practice

 

I worked a case where I once received something similar. 

 

[Instinctive]

@The_Man

I wanted no part of law review after I decided partway through 1L that I did in fact think clerking and BigLaw seemed horrible. I had great grades after the first quarter/semester (we had quarters but the first one was like 6 extra weeks long) including booking a couple classes. 

It hasn't hurt me at all, but that's because I went into sports and then subsequently business more generally. So I have zero regrets about the decision, and I similarly spent much of my life jumping through hoops because they were there and would lead to accolades. I do not practice law. Knowing all my friends and the legal profession...it does seem valuable if you actually plan to practice, in line with the overwhelming majority of responses so far.

I guess my point is, if he knows what he wants to do, stop doing the other silly crap and be happier. 2L I was in the best shape of my life, coaching the men's team as a GA, playing 3+ hours of ball a day and having perfect attendance at bar review. Was an incredible year. Just my

 

[Thorn]

I have a law review snafu story!  Our editor in chief accidentally cc'ed the advising professor when complaining to the rest of us that hosting our symposium dinner at said professor's house was total BS, that we shouldn't be treated like a wait staff, and the professor was really just interested in showing off her fancy house as opposed to having a successful event.  All true BTW.

Made for a deliciously awkward couple of months of planning and execution.

 

[Guest]

Hooper, I am not a lawyer, but I work closely with them, and I can tell you that most lawyers would rather settle than go to court. That is not to say that either party will yield only to avoid a trial, but if a settlement is available, they will gladly accept it. That isn't to say there aren't horrible, money-hungry backhoes out there, but the most majority are trying to serve their clients rather than enrich themselves.

 

[Orange&Blue]

Can someone explain hearsay?  I don't understand why Depp's attorney keeps having her hearsay objections sustained when Heard is saying what she said.  Apparently she can say what Depp said, but not herself?  Wtf is up with that?

 

[berndog]

@Ramsay Hunt Experience @Zow @Instinctive @Don Quixote

Thanks for your replies!  I will pass on this information and do my best to steer him towards a better school.  The final decision is his as my financial committment ended with his undergraduate degree. 

TLDR: proud dad says kids going to Chapel Hill

o
I wanted to stop in and provide an update on my sons law school decision. 

In the order of most to least expensive when factoring in scholarships he was accepted to Virginia, Boston U, UNC and Campbell.  (I haven’t ordered a DNA test but am wondering if those brains really came from my loins.)

He was receptive to the insight you shared and factored that into his decision.  In the end the University of North Carolina provided a great offer making the decision easier than anticipated. As an NC State grad it was a little tougher but he realized Chapel Hill is the place for him. 

I appreciate your willingness to share your experiences and will probably stop by from time to time with more questions to tap into your deep wealth of knowledge.  
 

 

[Gawain]

TLDR: proud dad says kids going to Chapel Hill

o
I wanted to stop in and provide an update on my sons law school decision. 

In the order of most to least expensive when factoring in scholarships he was accepted to Virginia, Boston U, UNC and Campbell.  (I haven’t ordered a DNA test but am wondering if those brains really came from my loins.)

He was receptive to the insight you shared and factored that into his decision.  In the end the University of North Carolina provided a great offer making the decision easier than anticipated. As an NC State grad it was a little tougher but he realized Chapel Hill is the place for him. 

I appreciate your willingness to share your experiences and will probably stop by from time to time with more questions to tap into your deep wealth of knowledge.  
 

As a lower T-14 guy, I really wish I had taken the money from one of the other schools. Still waiting for Biden to wipe out my 8K. Great choice!

 

[Instinctive]

TLDR: proud dad says kids going to Chapel Hill

o
I wanted to stop in and provide an update on my sons law school decision. 

In the order of most to least expensive when factoring in scholarships he was accepted to Virginia, Boston U, UNC and Campbell.  (I haven’t ordered a DNA test but am wondering if those brains really came from my loins.)

He was receptive to the insight you shared and factored that into his decision.  In the end the University of North Carolina provided a great offer making the decision easier than anticipated. As an NC State grad it was a little tougher but he realized Chapel Hill is the place for him. 

I appreciate your willingness to share your experiences and will probably stop by from time to time with more questions to tap into your deep wealth of knowledge.  
 

Love it! Let me know if he ever starts thinking law may not be for him. That turned out to be my boat and I imagine I'm among, if not the, most recent law grad on here (i.e., closest to him in age). I'm 5 years out.

ETA: Because I'd be happy to chat. Wouldn't be the first time.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Question for the FBG lawyers as it relates to the current legal saga involving two famous movie stars. In your professional opinion, what percentage of these types of cases (involving former spouses that clearly hate one another) feature false testimony by one or both sides? Not just embellished versions of events, but entire stories that are completely fabricated, invented out of thin air, it never happened. My guess was well over 50%, but what say you?

 

[El Floppo]

My music/english major niece decided to go to law school kind of out of the blue/covid... will be going Columbia @krista4  in the fall after much hair-pulling and gnashing of teeth over the decision. 

I told her I had a bunch of magic football nerds to ask any questions to on her behalf to help her make her decision, but she strangely declined.

any recommendations for somebody just about to start out in this thing? recommendations for this summer before school?

 

[Don Quixote]

My music/english major niece decided to go to law school kind of out of the blue/covid... will be going Columbia @krista4  in the fall after much hair-pulling and gnashing of teeth over the decision. 

I told her I had a bunch of magic football nerds to ask any questions to on her behalf to help her make her decision, but she strangely declined.

any recommendations for somebody just about to start out in this thing? recommendations for this summer before school?

Summer before 1L year is just relax. Enjoy what may be last summer for about 40 years without responsibilities.
 

 

[bigbottom]

My music/english major niece decided to go to law school kind of out of the blue/covid... will be going Columbia @krista4  in the fall after much hair-pulling and gnashing of teeth over the decision. 

I told her I had a bunch of magic football nerds to ask any questions to on her behalf to help her make her decision, but she strangely declined.

any recommendations for somebody just about to start out in this thing? recommendations for this summer before school?

The usefulness of any advice will of course be completely dependent on her goals and aspirations post-law school. But, in a vacuum, my extremely generalized advice would be to work and study really hard the first year.  First year grades determine (1) opportunities for  second summer clerkships, which typically lead to job offers; and (2) law review.  After first year, ease off the gas (which could mean passing on number two above). Third year should be coasting - job offer in hand, taking fun and interesting classes, partying a ton, road trips, etc. I went to law school in NYC (the other law school) and there is so much to see, do, and experience. 

 

[El Floppo]

Summer before 1L year is just relax. Enjoy what may be last summer for about 40 years without responsibilities.
 

you didn't mention the specific drugs. that was the leading question, counselor.

The usefulness of any advice will of course be completely dependent on her goals and aspirations post-law school. But, in a vacuum, my extremely generalized advice would be to work and study really hard the first year.  First year grades determine (1) opportunities for  second summer clerkships, which typically lead to job offers; and (2) law review.  After first year, ease off the gas (which could mean passing on number two above). Third year should be coasting - job offer in hand, taking fun and interesting classes, partying a ton, road trips, etc. I went to law school in NYC (the other law school) and there is so much to see, do, and experience. 

the "other one" was part of her agonizing decision (UofChicago the other). when she visited, she liked the people there more and felt like they were generally happier and enjoying themselves more. something to be said for living in the heart of things or needing to hop a subway to get down to it (didn't stop me).

she lived here for a quick stretch post grad until covid, so knows the city a bit (as well as visiting chez floppo a number of times over the years while growing up). she's not exactly a party girl... although I hope she takes advantage of everything while she's here. she's had an Irish bf for a long time who is likely moving to NYC for work while she goes to school which will either help or hurt her experiences in NYC.  he's a bit of a homebody... and has ill parents (younger than us!) who he'll want to get back to Ireland to look after. Part of her decision for Law School was about which school she felt would set her up best for a possible lifelong move to Ireland and/or other euro locations.

I will absolutely pass on your fantastic advice... and will keep my ears open for Quixote's drug recs.

 

[bigbottom]

Question for the FBG lawyers as it relates to the current legal saga involving two famous movie stars. In your professional opinion, what percentage of these types of cases (involving former spouses that clearly hate one another) feature false testimony by one or both sides? Not just embellished versions of events, but entire stories that are completely fabricated, invented out of thin air, it never happened. My guess was well over 50%, but what say you?

Well, I don’t have a professional opinion on your question. But my best guess is that while there is certainly rampant embellishment in these kinds of cases, knowingly and affirmatively testifying in court to something that is completely fabricated probably occurs in 10-20% of cases. 

 

[bigbottom]

you didn't mention the specific drugs. that was the leading question, counselor.

the "other one" was part of her agonizing decision (UofChicago the other). when she visited, she liked the people there more and felt like they were generally happier and enjoying themselves more. something to be said for living in the heart of things or needing to hop a subway to get down to it (didn't stop me).

she lived here for a quick stretch post grad until covid, so knows the city a bit (as well as visiting chez floppo a number of times over the years while growing up). she's not exactly a party girl... although I hope she takes advantage of everything while she's here. she's had an Irish bf for a long time who is likely moving to NYC for work while she goes to school which will either help or hurt her experiences in NYC.  he's a bit of a homebody... and has ill parents (younger than us!) who he'll want to get back to Ireland to look after. Part of her decision for Law School was about which school she felt would set her up best for a possible lifelong move to Ireland and/or other euro locations.

I will absolutely pass on your fantastic advice... and will keep my ears open for Quixote's drug recs.

So exciting. If she can avoid getting pulled under by the stress of law school, it’s going to be such a fantastic experience. And as for the bolded, in my opinion, Columbia will ultimately open more doors for her than NYU (and probably Chicago).

 

[Don Quixote]

you didn't mention the specific drugs. that was the leading question, counselor.

the "other one" was part of her agonizing decision (UofChicago the other). when she visited, she liked the people there more and felt like they were generally happier and enjoying themselves more. something to be said for living in the heart of things or needing to hop a subway to get down to it (didn't stop me).

she lived here for a quick stretch post grad until covid, so knows the city a bit (as well as visiting chez floppo a number of times over the years while growing up). she's not exactly a party girl... although I hope she takes advantage of everything while she's here. she's had an Irish bf for a long time who is likely moving to NYC for work while she goes to school which will either help or hurt her experiences in NYC.  he's a bit of a homebody... and has ill parents (younger than us!) who he'll want to get back to Ireland to look after. Part of her decision for Law School was about which school she felt would set her up best for a possible lifelong move to Ireland and/or other euro locations.

I will absolutely pass on your fantastic advice... and will keep my ears open for Quixote's drug recs.

lol… I did not do any drugs, but think I jut read a lot of books and watched a ton of movies that summer.

My advice to relax the summer before relates to BB’s reply though. 1L year is a lot of work, and grades will be critical for things like law review and getting a good job 2L summer.

Save stressing out and the work until classes begin — then work your *** off.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Well, I don’t have a professional opinion on your question. But my best guess is that while there is certainly rampant embellishment in these kinds of cases, knowingly and affirmatively testifying in court to something that is completely fabricated probably occurs in 10-20% of cases. 

Thanks for sharing. I feel it must be at least 10-20% and very likely much higher. The flip side is that it seems like almost none of these people ever get penalized for perjury after the fact. So I imagine that is one reason why people probably do it. 

 

[krista4]

Congrats, @El Floppo!  As you know, your niece has great taste in schools.   

 

[thecatch]

Just perused the latest US News rankings and I have no idea how anyone affords law school anymore 

 

[Zow]

My music/english major niece decided to go to law school kind of out of the blue/covid... will be going Columbia @krista4  in the fall after much hair-pulling and gnashing of teeth over the decision. 

I told her I had a bunch of magic football nerds to ask any questions to on her behalf to help her make her decision, but she strangely declined.

any recommendations for somebody just about to start out in this thing? recommendations for this summer before school?

Do something fun and not at all law related. 

 

[Zow]

Question for the FBG lawyers as it relates to the current legal saga involving two famous movie stars. In your professional opinion, what percentage of these types of cases (involving former spouses that clearly hate one another) feature false testimony by one or both sides? Not just embellished versions of events, but entire stories that are completely fabricated, invented out of thin air, it never happened. My guess was well over 50%, but what say you?

This is actually a very complex question because “false testimony” is difficult to define. 
 

Before I go further, think about a messy breakup you had. Now imagine you and he/she were were interviewed separately and asked what caused the breakup and you both honestly answered. Strong odds the interviewer would still get two wildly different stories. 
 

I say the above because, in ugly family law litigation, each side’s brain has had likely months to subconsciously form the narrative where they are absolved from wrongdoing and/or justified in the same. Additionally, external forces (I.e. close friends and family) also unknowingly exert pressure on the person to make them the victim and the other spouse the “bad guy.” 
 

So, by trial, after months of emotional and stressful buildup, each side has a wildly different narrative that nonetheless if he or she was hooked up to a lie detector test (and that test was 100% reliable) each person probably passes even though their respective stories contradict. Put differently, each side may have a genuine “truth” that isn’t necessarily reality but their brains have nonetheless formed is as factual truth. So, in that sense, even though the testimony may then be “false” it’s not untruthful. 
 

In my experience I’d say the above happens in about every case with varying degrees. However, I think that the percentage of cases where one or more parties/witnesses outright lie(s) - that is, blatantly, knowingly, and intelligently lies for an advantage- is probably ~10% or less. 

 

[Zow]

Spent my afternoon today - instead of being in multiple important witness interviews on murder cases - with law enforcement because a former client fled his mental health facility and announced that he was on his way to kill me. Reality is that I fought like hell on his case and was very patient with him. But he - through his actions that I warned against - forced a withdrawal that my ethics counsel advised I must do, and now he thinks I’m the devil. 
 

This job sucks sometimes. 

 

[Zow]

Can someone explain hearsay?  I don't understand why Depp's attorney keeps having her hearsay objections sustained when Heard is saying what she said.  Apparently she can say what Depp said, but not herself?  Wtf is up with that?

Can you post a clip?

 

[bigbottom]

Spent my afternoon today - instead of being in multiple important witness interviews on murder cases - with law enforcement because a former client fled his mental health facility and announced that he was on his way to kill me. Reality is that I fought like hell on his case and was very patient with him, he - through his actions that I warned against - forced a withdrawal that my ethics counsel advised I must do, and now he thinks I’m the devil. 
 

This job sucks sometimes. 

Wow, that’s scary. I’m really sorry you’re having to deal with that. 

 

[Zow]

Wow, that’s scary. I’m really sorry you’re having to deal with that. 

Thanks. Wish I could say it’s the first time. 
 

Rare moment where I’m actually rooting for the police to arrest a client/former client. There’s both an active arrest warrant and a signed Title 36 (commitment) order.  
 

Was definitely strange handing over private communications and providing police with evidence. 

 

[-fish-]

Hour 9 of mediation today.  Only 2 offers exchanged.  Defense is completely unprepared.

So frustrating.

 

[bigbottom]

Hour 9 of mediation today.  Only 2 offers exchanged.  Defense is completely unprepared.

So frustrating.

 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Hour 9 of mediation today.  Only 2 offers exchanged.  Defense is completely unprepared.

So frustrating.

Hope you brought a good book, or some billable work to do.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Johnson and Johnson wants to hire former Solicitor General and current Hogan Lovells partner Neal Katyal in a bankruptcy case involving one of its subsidiaries for some product liability litigation, so his engagement agreement is a public record. His billing rate of $2,465 per hour has raised a few eyebrows and drawn an objection.  I've seen several over $2k/hr. in recent years but this is a new high for me. He must be really good.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/jj-bankruptcy-trustee-balks-neal-katyals-2465-hourly-rate-2022-05-23/

 

[bigbottom]

Johnson and Johnson wants to hire former Solicitor General and current Hogan Lovells partner Neal Katyal in a bankruptcy case involving one of its subsidiaries for some product liability litigation, so his engagement agreement is a public record. His billing rate of $2,465 per hour has raised a few eyebrows and drawn an objection.  I've seen several over $2k/hr. in recent years but this is a new high for me. He must be really good.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/jj-bankruptcy-trustee-balks-neal-katyals-2465-hourly-rate-2022-05-23/

I use a guy who just increased his rates to $1600/hr.  I don’t use him as much anymore. $2465 is nuts, but maybe he’s worth it. 

 

[thecatch]

Johnson and Johnson wants to hire former Solicitor General and current Hogan Lovells partner Neal Katyal in a bankruptcy case involving one of its subsidiaries for some product liability litigation, so his engagement agreement is a public record. His billing rate of $2,465 per hour has raised a few eyebrows and drawn an objection.  I've seen several over $2k/hr. in recent years but this is a new high for me. He must be really good.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/jj-bankruptcy-trustee-balks-neal-katyals-2465-hourly-rate-2022-05-23/

He’s one of maybe 10ish attorneys in the country who will ensure a cert petition gets a second or third look from the justices simply by virtue of the fact that their name is on the cover.  So in certain contexts he’s worth that and more. In the context of a bankruptcy appeal, I’m a little more skeptical of the value proposition. 

 

[E Street Brat]

I  Camila Vasquez

That is all