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The Tree Saga (1 Viewer)

What if she refuses to answer the door?   Didn't he say in the OP that he attempted to contact her twice face-to-face?  
Now she's refusing to answer the door?  He tried twice, his wife should try once a day until she answers.  If there's no answer after a week or so, than the hag is probably dead and they can proceed to pay multiple racks to have the tree taken down.

 
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It doesn't make me cringe.  But from what I read Otis has left notes, his wife has gone over there several times, he's had professionals tell him the tree is dangerous, and his neighbors have indicated that they've made prior complaints and she doesn't respond.  Additionally, a "threatening" letter doesn't need to be written overly harshly or jerkishly.  Generally, the goal here is to kindly say "here's what nice and reasonable thing I'm willing to do, but here's how serious and bad it could get, but look at how nice and reasonable I am because I want to go this nice route."  He can kindly and softly get his point across.  I think it's clear this tree poses some sort of moderate to imminent thread to his family's safety so something needs to be done.  At least sending her a letter gives some sort of warning before he starts lopping branches off.  Sure, he could try having his wife stop by again but at some point an introduction isn't happening.  

Oh, and it's "judgment." 
A frivolous demand letter from an attorney seems more likely to result in a bar complaint than in a stubborn old lady caving in and cutting the tree down, but I'll defer to your expertise. 

 
Who's (not a euphemism) mowing her lawn? Go over when they're mowing and you can either talk to them and try to make contact, or maybe she'll show up outside. 

 
A frivolous demand letter from an attorney seems more likely to result in a bar complaint than in a stubborn old lady caving in and cutting the tree down, but I'll defer to your expertise. 
Why would it be frivolous? 

Admittedly, I'm not terribly up on my NY property law, but if this lady is negligently letting her tree hang over casa de Otis like the Sword of Damocles, it seems like a letter kindly asking to stop wouldn't be frivolous. 

 
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Why would it be frivolous? 
It's just an assumption based on the fact that Otis asked you for a non-frivolous basis on which to justify the letter, and IIRC you responded by citing admittedly probably inapplicable "nasty legal stuff." 

 
It's just an assumption based on the fact that Otis asked you for a non-frivolous basis on which to justify the letter, and IIRC you responded by citing admittedly probably inapplicable "nasty legal stuff." 
I was being facetious. 

 
Zow said:
Shtick answer: Ugh. 

Serious answer: You're a lawyer.  Demand letter with nasty legal stuff. 


It doesn't make me cringe.  But from what I read Otis has left notes, his wife has gone over there several times, he's had professionals tell him the tree is dangerous, and his neighbors have indicated that they've made prior complaints and she doesn't respond.  Additionally, a "threatening" letter doesn't need to be written overly harshly or jerkishly.  Generally, the goal here is to kindly say "here's what nice and reasonable thing I'm willing to do, but here's how serious and bad it could get, but look at how nice and reasonable I am because I want to go this nice route."  He can kindly and softly get his point across yet still instill some call to action with the lawyer thing.  I think it's clear this tree poses some sort of moderate to imminent thread to his family's safety so something needs to be done.  At least sending her a letter gives some sort of warning before he starts lopping branches off.  Sure, he could try having his wife stop by again but at some point an introduction isn't happening.  

Oh, and it's "judgment." 


Nice back pedaling from your original post.  Even then, he's tried that approach with his wife's note.  Someone that Otis knows knows how to contact the little old lady or someone in her family--that is the correct approach until she proves to be an unreasonable person.  

PS: Where I come from, both judgement and judgment are correct. 

 
Kill two birds with one stone... cut the tree in such a manner as it falls on her house. 

 

:pun intended:

 
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I still feel the fire arrow is the best resort.  Could possibly extend it to the houses of the folks in here arguing and derailing the thread.  Or perhaps instead of their houses, just their computers, or hands.  Whatever makes them stop posting.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Purchase a mylar kite and a spool of fine cooper wire.  Launch the kite right before the next lightning storm using cooper wire as string.  Tie string to offending tree.  Tell your children the story of Ben Franklin, the one with the kite, not the one where he shagged half the French court.  Take video of the tree during the storm.. 
This might work....

 
Does she leave the house?  Wait until she does and just cut the whole thing down.  Now she has to come to you.  If you want to be real neighborly, plant a nicer tree in its place.   

 
I'm thinking a couple of WB to get through the fence, and then just send one of your builder's to get that thing down. Probably take 30 seconds, and that thing probably has 6 gems attached to it.

 
Officer Pete Malloy said:
How many notes should he leave? 
Thank you. I stopped by on two occasions, one of which there was a car in the driveway and I'm betting she was home. Then we left what I think was an overly nice and polite note that apparently went completely ignored. 

I could go by her house again but at what point does it become weird that I keep stopping by?

 
Chet's suggestion is a good one, provided I have nothing but time on my hands and no instinct telling me it's totally creepy to skulk around in front of this lady's house until I see her and can ambush her with conversation. 

 
Otis said:
tldr: Hideous, dangerous, dead tree in adjacent yard; neighbor uncooperative; seeking advice/shtick to help resolve.

***

When we look out the window to our backyard, or when we sit in the sun on a warm spring day and look up at a deep blue sky, we see this tree.

It may be the deadest thing in our solar system.  If you dug up the carcass of Abraham Lincoln, it would be closer to life than this tree.  This tree is the thing that nightmares are made of.  As a kid, I remember a few scenes from a few horror movies, and it's probably no surprise that the tree taking Robbie out of his bed in Poltergeist was one of the most terrifying things I saw as a young boy.  This is basically that tree.

We moved into the house last year.  As far as I can gather, not long ago, this was a massive, healthy, vibrant tree, that left a canopy of leaves covering the entire yard.  If you look at my house on Google Earth from recent years, it's a strong healthy specimen of tree.  I suspect that, perhaps in Sandy, the tree must have taken a vicious hit, and probably had multiple large trunks lopped off, and it just couldn't survive.

Not only is the tree terrifying and hideous to look at, it also has that large branch on the left that hangs ominously over our yard, and over my girls' playset.  It's a maiming waiting to happen.  Landscapers, neighbors, and all have often had occasion to look up and comment, "boy, that thing's dangerous."

About 6 months ago I decided to take action.  How can I get this thing removed without (1) awkward exchanges with the neighbor behind us we've never actually met, and (2) without shelling out my usual $5k fee for any household job.  

Plan 1: The Power Company.  I noticed that the tree hangs ominously over these power lines, which connect to a transformer just off to the left, on a pole behind our garage.  So I place a strategic call to LIPA to inform them of a dead tree hanging dangerously over power lines adjacent to a transformer, surely one stiff breeze away from taking out power to this part of town and leaving live wires zapping along the ground like heat seeking missiles chasing small children.  They assured me they would send someone out to "check out it."  I heard nothing about it, and some months later followed up.  I was informed that the tree isn't actually ON the lines, so, sorry, nothing they could do.

Plan 2: The Village.  My town (actually incorporated village) has an app that allows you to dial up complaints about various conditions, and I was informed by a neighbor they might tend to it that way.  I make a formal report through the app, including a picture and all necessary descriptors.  Our immediate neighbor, within a day, even "Likes" the complaint/request, and agrees that the tree "is very dangerous!!"  Yes -- I've got a crowd now.  Surely they'll do something about it!

Well, the Village explained that, because this tree is on private property, it's a "private matter."  

Plan 3: A request to the Neighbor:   I understand that the neighbor behind us, whom I've never met, is an older woman.  Her husband passed some years ago, her children are grown, and she lives there alone.  I wanted to be nice and do the right thing, so first, on a couple of random Saturday mornings, I walked around the block with my 2-year-old daughter in tow in her wagon, and knock on the door/ring the doorbell.  No answer either time.

So, my wife writes out a nice, handwritten note.  In it, we introduce ourselves, mention our concern about the tree and for the safety of our girls, and ask if there is anything we can do.  We even volunteer to pick up the cost for removal.  My wife leaves e-mail addresses, phone numbers, virtually every bit of contact information we could muster.  The odd thing is it's kind of hard to be polite in a note like that one -- you sort of write it like "oh, in case you haven't noticed that massive eyesore of a dead tree in your yard, we did, and can we just please make that go away kthx?"  She can't possibly have ever looked out that tree and thought to herself, after a deep, prideful breath, "What a glorious tree!"  In any event, we did the best we could.

It's been several weeks, and no response.

I subsequently learned that other neighbors adjacent to her property, who had cut back some of the overgrowth from her property over to theirs, had a run-in with her subsequently, in which she raised hell about them cutting her (ugly, overgrown, untended to) plantings.  So, apparently, as I understand it, she's not the most reasonable dealer.

What's next?

As I see it, I've got limited options here.

Plan 4: Certified letter to LIPA.  Neighbors who are cheering us on in ridding the neighborhood of this evil beast have suggested that a formal letter to the power company, sent certified, documented with pictures and indicating that we have consulted an arborist, might get the attention of the LIPA legal department, and spur them into action.  It wouldn't require much time, and maybe I'll do this in parallel with other options.

Plan 5: Formal letter to neighbor.  I suppose it's possible she didn't hear me at the door either time and didn't get the nice handwritten letter left in her mailbox.  Maybe I should follow-up with a more formal written letter, asking, in a nice way, for the same relief, and see what she says.  I'm tempted to make a shticky letter, so at least it could be a little bit of fun in the likely event she rejects our request again.

Plan 6: Just cut the killer branches hanging over our yard.  I'm no lawyer, but I'm told that we have a right of some sort to cut any branches that hang over our property.  That won't resolve the issue entirely -- there will still be an ugly tree, which still will eventually come down.  But at least those large branches that pose the biggest threat could be removed and the most immediate danger would be resolved.  The catch is I would have to have them guys get one of those bucket/lift things into our yard somehow and get up there to cut it from our yard, because I suspect neighbor won't give us access to her yard to have the guys climb the trees and cut from up there.  Maybe not a big deal, I can check with a tree service and get some quotes.  This one can't possibly be more than $500-$1000.  Far less than the usual.

Anyone ever deal with a scenario like this one?  Any advice?  Any shtick suggestions?  I'm open to whatever.
If only you knew an attorney who could help.

 
ChiefD said:
I'm thinking a couple of WB to get through the fence, and then just send one of your builder's to get that thing down. Probably take 30 seconds, and that thing probably has 6 gems attached to it.
Nice.

Go to Home Depot on a Saturday morning. Buy Chainsaw. Pitch up some "help" on the way out to your car. I-9 not needed.

Tell them to cut it down for a quick $100 and they get to keep the chainsaw. Will take them all of 2-3 minutes.

 
Chet's suggestion is a good one, provided I have nothing but time on my hands and no instinct telling me it's totally creepy to skulk around in front of this lady's house until I see her and can ambush her with conversation. 
Link to where I said anything like that.  You spent longer writing the OP than you have trying to contact the old lady.  If you think people think you're weird for knocking on her door, wait until word in your neighborhood gets out that you served her with a demand letter and you never tried to contact her.  Yes, that's the story that will circulate among your neighbors once her family tells all of your neighbors what ##### you and your wife are.

 
Nice.

Go to Home Depot on a Saturday morning. Buy Chainsaw. Pitch up some "help" on the way out to your car. I-9 not needed.

Tell them to cut it down for a quick $100 and they get to keep the chainsaw. Will take them all of 2-3 minutes.
Problem is he already wrote the god####ed letter.  A lawyer should know better.

 
I would tape a note to the bottom of her driveway and then every day tape a new note one foot closer to her front door until she got the message.

 
Link to where I said anything like that.  You spent longer writing the OP than you have trying to contact the old lady.  If you think people think you're weird for knocking on her door, wait until word in your neighborhood gets out that you served her with a demand letter and you never tried to contact her.  Yes, that's the story that will circulate among your neighbors once her family tells all of your neighbors what ##### you and your wife are.
All my neighbors are on my side.  They desperately want the tree down, and think it's BS that the lady hasn't even given us a response.  I'm not really concerned about that.

And by the way, the letter I'm contemplating is not a "demand" letter or any threat of legal action.  It's a nice letter, just like the note, but a bit more formal, making a record, and sending it in the mail with the hopes she'll receive it and respond to it.  I wouldn't go the woz route.  But I also would like to put her on notice that, at a minimum, if she doesn't get back to us and doesn't agree to take the tree down, I'm going to be taking down the branches hanging over the yard.  I don't want her freaking out that we didn't inform her about that.  

 
Certified arborist coming by today to check it out and give us some estimates. :popcorn:   :timber: 

 
I'm going in at $8k for my estimate.  Much of it depends on how easily they can get into that area and what's immediately under it. 

 
I'm guessing it'd be about $2K to remove that tree up there.  It would be about $500 here to cut it down and haul it away.  Anything more than $2K and you're getting bent over, no lube.

 
I'm guessing it'd be about $2K to remove that tree up there.  It would be about $500 here to cut it down and haul it away.  Anything more than $2K and you're getting bent over, no lube.
That's about $1500 to $1800 up here but we've got to pay taxes so we can pay for your arena, stadium, and other amenities.

 
The thing I wonder about is the tree has obviously been trimmed, severely, before.  She is clearly aware of the condition of the tree.  It has been worked on over the years.  It now needs it again.  This is not exactly a surprise.

 
All my neighbors are on my side.  They desperately want the tree down, and think it's BS that the lady hasn't even given us a response.  I'm not really concerned about that.

And by the way, the letter I'm contemplating is not a "demand" letter or any threat of legal action.  It's a nice letter, just like the note, but a bit more formal, making a record, and sending it in the mail with the hopes she'll receive it and respond to it.  I wouldn't go the woz route.  But I also would like to put her on notice that, at a minimum, if she doesn't get back to us and doesn't agree to take the tree down, I'm going to be taking down the branches hanging over the yard.  I don't want her freaking out that we didn't inform her about that.  
I doubt the lady even knows that you want to talk to her.  I bet she never read your note.  How do you go about getting in touch with people who ring your doorbell but don't leave a message when you're not home?  Post a copy of your letter.  Sounds like it's already written and you can't wait to get to the post office to send it certified.

 
All my neighbors are on my side.  They desperately want the tree down, and think it's BS that the lady hasn't even given us a response.  I'm not really concerned about that.

And by the way, the letter I'm contemplating is not a "demand" letter or any threat of legal action.  It's a nice letter, just like the note, but a bit more formal, making a record, and sending it in the mail with the hopes she'll receive it and respond to it.  I wouldn't go the woz route.  But I also would like to put her on notice that, at a minimum, if she doesn't get back to us and doesn't agree to take the tree down, I'm going to be taking down the branches hanging over the yard.  I don't want her freaking out that we didn't inform her about that.  
Just wondering, are you sending it certified mail?

 
Little old lady:  Why do I have to sign this?

Mailman:  It's a certified letter.  You have to sign so the sender has proof that you received it.

LOL:  Who sent it?

MM: I'm not sure but the name and address are here.  Here we go.  It looks like it's from a neighbor.  Ah yes.  I know this house--I deliver mail there too.  It's just over there behind your house.

LOL:  Why would he send me this letter?

MM:  I don't really know Ma'am but usually people send certified mail when they want proof that the letter got delivered.  It happens a lot with court cases and such. 

LOL:  I'm not involved in any court case.  Why wouldn't he just stop over?

MM:  I really can't say but I do know that he's a lawyer based on the mail I deliver.  I'd be careful if I were you.  Why don't we just say that you weren't home when I rang your bell today.  The letter will be returned as undelivered.  Maybe have your son handle this.

 
Dear lovely neighbor lady:

We moved in to ___________, some time ago because as a young family we wanted to make sure that our children were part of a flourishing lovely community such as this that you have helped to nurture in your time here.  We are so blessed to have neighbors like you that have taken the time to make this community the special place it is.  We enjoy every minute of our children playing in our yard knowing that they are safe and part of a neighborhood that we are proud to call home.

As you know we've tried to get in touch with you concerning the tree that is on your property.  I know that neighbors often have discussions about things like this and in a neighborhood such as ours we always work together to make our home more beautiful and ultimately safer.  We have a concern about the potential danger that this tree could be to our children.  I can understand though that with your years in this community that this tree might have some personal meaning to you beyond a sapling that far too many take for granted.  We too have such attachment; our favorite pictures of our oldest are of her on a swing attached to my father's tree in his yard in the house I grew up in.  He is gone now, but we still care for that tree as a family and when it blooms every year we are reminded of him.  If the tree in your yard has the same emotional comfort for you then we fully understand your hesitency to discuss its possible removal or significant pruning.

However, given the potential safety issue and the fact that the tree is either dead or dying and has failed to bloom for some time now, our concerns still remain.  We do not wish to impose any action upon you nor attack the cherished memories you may have with this tree.  So, we would like to offer a compromise in the spirit of our great community.  We would like to pay for the removal of the tree and at the same time invite you to join us on a search to replant a new tree or sapling in its place on your property.  Perhaps a Magnolia tree, complete with its spring blooming of fresh flowers that remind anyone with a good nose the sweet smells of better times would be in order?  We can even make an event out of it with a ceremony including your family and mine as we pay our respects to your tree and usher in a new era of memories and friendship as we plant a new tree to honor you and our community.

I hope you take this idea under advisement and contact us to discuss.  Our only goal is not to have a dispute with enighbor but to ensure the continued safety of our children in the community we both call home.  You are welcome to stop by any Saturday or Sunday when we are home and my wife and I would love to learn about your time in this community and your family whom I'm sure has done so much for those of us that are new to this home.  Perhaps you can even share stories of the family that was gracious enough to allow our family to buy their home and join you here.  I look forward to speaking with you and becoming the close friendly neighbor that we had hoped we would be to everyone here.  We have also enclosed a short poem written by our oldest about trees that she wrote for you.  I hope you will enjoy it as much as we did.

Thank you for your time.  Please, stop by and say hi.

Your neighbor in tree, OATS.

 
Chet's suggestion is a good one, provided I have nothing but time on my hands and no instinct telling me it's totally creepy to skulk around in front of this lady's house until I see her and can ambush her with conversation. 
Bring a sleeping bag and camp out on her porch.

 
Dear lovely neighbor lady:

We moved in to ___________, some time ago because as a young family we wanted to make sure that our children were part of a flourishing lovely community such as this that you have helped to nurture in your time here.  We are so blessed to have neighbors like you that have taken the time to make this community the special place it is.  We enjoy every minute of our children playing in our yard knowing that they are safe and part of a neighborhood that we are proud to call home.

As you know we've tried to get in touch with you concerning the tree that is on your property.  I know that neighbors often have discussions about things like this and in a neighborhood such as ours we always work together to make our home more beautiful and ultimately safer.  We have a concern about the potential danger that this tree could be to our children.  I can understand though that with your years in this community that this tree might have some personal meaning to you beyond a sapling that far too many take for granted.  We too have such attachment; our favorite pictures of our oldest are of her on a swing attached to my father's tree in his yard in the house I grew up in.  He is gone now, but we still care for that tree as a family and when it blooms every year we are reminded of him.  If the tree in your yard has the same emotional comfort for you then we fully understand your hesitency to discuss its possible removal or significant pruning.

However, given the potential safety issue and the fact that the tree is either dead or dying and has failed to bloom for some time now, our concerns still remain.  We do not wish to impose any action upon you nor attack the cherished memories you may have with this tree.  So, we would like to offer a compromise in the spirit of our great community.  We would like to pay for the removal of the tree and at the same time invite you to join us on a search to replant a new tree or sapling in its place on your property.  Perhaps a Magnolia tree, complete with its spring blooming of fresh flowers that remind anyone with a good nose the sweet smells of better times would be in order?  We can even make an event out of it with a ceremony including your family and mine as we pay our respects to your tree and usher in a new era of memories and friendship as we plant a new tree to honor you and our community.

I hope you take this idea under advisement and contact us to discuss.  Our only goal is not to have a dispute with enighbor but to ensure the continued safety of our children in the community we both call home.  You are welcome to stop by any Saturday or Sunday when we are home and my wife and I would love to learn about your time in this community and your family whom I'm sure has done so much for those of us that are new to this home.  Perhaps you can even share stories of the family that was gracious enough to allow our family to buy their home and join you here.  I look forward to speaking with you and becoming the close friendly neighbor that we had hoped we would be to everyone here.  We have also enclosed a short poem written by our oldest about trees that she wrote for you.  I hope you will enjoy it as much as we did.

Thank you for your time.  Please, stop by and say hi.

Your neighbor in tree, OATS.
Needs a couple veiled threats, but otherwise pretty good.

 
I doubt the lady even knows that you want to talk to her.  I bet she never read your note.  How do you go about getting in touch with people who ring your doorbell but don't leave a message when you're not home?  Post a copy of your letter.  Sounds like it's already written and you can't wait to get to the post office to send it certified.
Totally disagree. This surly old bag is just ignoring the situation assuming it will go away.

 

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