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Thunder & Lightning (2 Viewers)

Gruden's Keyboard

Gruden's Keyboard

Footballguy
I think were going to see Lightning, Lightning & Thunder moving forward...

A shining example of this is the Dolphins' RB stable:
Mostert, Achane & Wilson

I also like what the Titans have with the Pollard and Spears pairing.
 
Yes those two are the lightning. Thunder is dime a dozen as there's always plodders to be had...heck you can even have a position other than RB be your thunder option.
 
I'm going to sit this one... Lightning, Lightning and Thunder doesn't have a very good/marketable ring to it.

I'm here for the Earth, Wind and Fire branding - I have a feeling they will really be able roll in September.

With all due respect, this is a pretty horrible approach and analysis of what teams are doing. How much run did Wilson, Achane and Mostert get last season? Having a bell cow with the chops to pass protect, catch the ball, run between the tackles will always trump any stable of RB's because of the unpredictability of the offense with 1 guy doing the work back there.
 
TVT 0 N S T A said:
Having a bell cow with the chops to pass protect, catch the ball, run between the tackles will always trump any stable of RB's because of the unpredictability of the offense with 1 guy doing the work back there.
Click to expand...
Mark Ingram, Alvin Kamara and Sean Payton disagree.

370 carries and 139 receptions for 3,094 yards and 25 TD's at their peak.

Good luck finding that in one bell cow.

Even CMC's most amazing year was only 70-80% of that production.
 
Stoneworker said:
TVT 0 N S T A said:
Having a bell cow with the chops to pass protect, catch the ball, run between the tackles will always trump any stable of RB's because of the unpredictability of the offense with 1 guy doing the work back there.
Click to expand...
Mark Ingram, Alvin Kamara and Sean Payton disagree.

370 carries and 139 receptions for 3,094 yards and 25 TD's at their peak.

Good luck finding that in one bell cow.

Even CMC's most amazing year was only 70-80% of that production.
Click to expand...
To be fair, even with a bell cow like McCaffrey, you spell him now and then, which adds to the numbers if we're comparing to Ingram/Kamara type scenarios. I don't think anyone is calling for literal 100% bell cows. But you're right, they put up monster numbers together.
 
Stoneworker said:
TVT 0 N S T A said:
Having a bell cow with the chops to pass protect, catch the ball, run between the tackles will always trump any stable of RB's because of the unpredictability of the offense with 1 guy doing the work back there.
Click to expand...
Mark Ingram, Alvin Kamara and Sean Payton disagree.

370 carries and 139 receptions for 3,094 yards and 25 TD's at their peak.

Good luck finding that in one bell cow.

Even CMC's most amazing year was only 70-80% of that production.
Click to expand...
Yes, of course... I would be remissed to not mention the one season when 2 bell cows met in one backfield...

The Dolphins trio being mentioned above rushed for 81 more carries than CMC. That means, CMC would have accounted for 77% of the touches in that offense. I consider anything over 250 or +70% of carries (in today's NFL) to be a bell cow. Even with the Dolphins, Mostert was the feature back and spelled by Achane until he was injured.
 
TVT 0 N S T A said:
Stoneworker said:
TVT 0 N S T A said:
Having a bell cow with the chops to pass protect, catch the ball, run between the tackles will always trump any stable of RB's because of the unpredictability of the offense with 1 guy doing the work back there.
Click to expand...
Mark Ingram, Alvin Kamara and Sean Payton disagree.

370 carries and 139 receptions for 3,094 yards and 25 TD's at their peak.

Good luck finding that in one bell cow.

Even CMC's most amazing year was only 70-80% of that production.
Click to expand...
Yes, of course... I would be remissed to not mention the one season when 2 bell cows met in one backfield...

The Dolphins trio being mentioned above rushed for 81 more carries than CMC. That means, CMC would have accounted for 77% of the touches in that offense. I consider anything over 250 or +70% of carries (in today's NFL) to be a bell cow. Even with the Dolphins, Mostert was the feature back and spelled by Achane until he was injured.
Click to expand...
From a coach's perspective, whatever benefits (if any) that a unicorn "bell cow" provides in terms of "unpredictability of the offense" are more than offset by a) expanded play-calling options and b) injury hedge/longevity at the RB position. That is why even CMC is no longer a bell cow.

And comparing CMC's career year to a Miami backfield in an average year that doesn't really feature RB's as receiving options is hardly apples-to-apples.
 
Last edited:
Thor: We're the same, you and I. We're just a couple of hot-headed fools.
Hulk: Yeah, same. Hulk like fire, Thor like water.
Thor: We're kind of both like fire.
Hulk: But Hulk like real fire. Hulk like raging fire. Thor like smoldering fire.
 
Stoneworker said:
TVT 0 N S T A said:
Stoneworker said:
TVT 0 N S T A said:
Having a bell cow with the chops to pass protect, catch the ball, run between the tackles will always trump any stable of RB's because of the unpredictability of the offense with 1 guy doing the work back there.
Click to expand...
Mark Ingram, Alvin Kamara and Sean Payton disagree.

370 carries and 139 receptions for 3,094 yards and 25 TD's at their peak.

Good luck finding that in one bell cow.

Even CMC's most amazing year was only 70-80% of that production.
Click to expand...
Yes, of course... I would be remissed to not mention the one season when 2 bell cows met in one backfield...

The Dolphins trio being mentioned above rushed for 81 more carries than CMC. That means, CMC would have accounted for 77% of the touches in that offense. I consider anything over 250 or +70% of carries (in today's NFL) to be a bell cow. Even with the Dolphins, Mostert was the feature back and spelled by Achane until he was injured.
Click to expand...
From a coach's perspective, whatever benefits (if any) that a unicorn "bell cow" provides in terms of "unpredictability of the offense" are more than offset by a) expanded play-calling options and b) injury hedge/longevity at the RB position. That is why even CMC is no longer a bell cow.

And comparing CMC's career year to a Miami backfield in an average year that doesn't really feature RB's as receiving options is hardly apples-to-apples.
Click to expand...
Yes, certainly... let's increase the longevity in a position we aren't going to support with a second contract anyway.

With all due respect, that doesn't make any sense. Everything I know about this RB market is to turn and burn these guys. It does seem like there would be some merit to comparing a 27 year old runningback, who was dead to rights after a battle with injuries a couple years ago to an RBBC in the same year. It should also be noted that in that year - none of those RBs in the committee played the entire season. CMC was 2nd in touches/game and first on the season - I would say by all accounts he is a bell cow.

Upon writing this email, I'll see myself out. I'm not really sure we are reading the same book, let alone on the same page.
 
I don't think the style or size of the RBs matters so much as it does just having 2 good backs. Gibbs and Montgomery seem like one of the best pairings going into 2024. Gibbs is lightning for sure. Montgomery isn't lightning but I wouldn't call him thunder either. He's just an all around good back.
 
In regards to the complete RB who can do everything which makes the offense less predictable I think there is some merit to that.

However as an example the Patriots used RBs of different skill sets and so telgraphing what type of play the offense might run based on which RB was in the lineup. These RB were polar opposites like Blount and White.

So that predictability should mean the RB are less efficient because the defense has a better idea what do defend right?

But there are counters to every play or play type. So play action when Blount is on the field and running the ball and running the ball with White are still ways to keep the defense guessing.

Being predictable should help the defense but actually stopping these plays from being effective comes down to execution.
 
Brian Callahan said he didn't believe the RB market was bad just that players are specialized now. There are less players that can do everything well but those guys do get big contracts.
That's gotten a lot of play since he said it. At the owners meetings several agreed with it in some regard.

I would say this is easy to achieve and control. Thinking of practice time and time to develop. No third down back would get much opportunity to even show he's a complete back. Speedy scat back probably gets a big burly back pulled on third down etc. Practice could easily be choreographed to work on who does what best and presented as maximizing their abilities.

This seems like it could be a way for the owners to quietly control the RB market so that it never spikes back up again.
 
Titans have this thunder lightning lightning in Julius Chestnut, Spears, and Pollard.

Chestnut is hanging onto a role by a thread. Maybe they draft or sign a UDFA he can't beat out. Maybe he thrives. He's a fun dart throw.

I got a bit excited that Ran brought him up at the owners meetings. That Callahan said good things. Still a total dart throw though
 
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