Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (2 Viewers)

[az_prof]

I am amused at how some are still hung up on his completion percentage from last week, as if that is the only stat that matters. 15 YPA? 3 total touchdown and no turnovers? Over 300 passing yards against the best pass defense? Apparently, that all means nothing, but his 48% completion percentage IS relevant, and seemingly proves that he sucks.

Most of his throws were downfield, which affects completion %. He rarely is asked to throw screens, dump offs, short crossing patterns, short curls, etc. 90% of his called throws are 15 or 20 yards plus downfield. That's why he has the high YPA and also why his completion % is low. The Broncos offense right now is run, run, and then go for a low % but high reward pass play. I don't think you can blame Tebow for the completion % and I agree with Ghost Rider.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I am amused at how some are still hung up on his completion percentage from last week, as if that is the only stat that matters. 15 YPA? 3 total touchdown and no turnovers? Over 300 passing yards against the best pass defense? Apparently, that all means nothing, but his 48% completion percentage IS relevant, and seemingly proves that he sucks.

The completion percentage has been consistent in every game he started, his YPA on the season is 6.4 and 6.8 on his career. I don't imagine that you are arguing that 15 Y/A is somehow sustainable.I agree that completion % may be overrated to some degree but it is an indication of his ability to make the high % throws that sustain drives. It also seems that some of the supporters are forgiving it based on the logic that he is just throwing it away when there is nothing there, which ignores the fact that every QB does that, or he is being coached to make on read then run or throw it away but there are a lot of examples of QBs with similar athletic ability who were coached the same way and still managed to complete over 50% of their passes, with the same or better Y/A.I like the ability he shows a ton of ability and will end up being a much better QB than most of the "experts" believed, but there are some obvious flaws with his game that he needs to work on and increasing his completion % is one of them (throwing to his right and speeding up his throwing motion are others).

I agree with most of that for the most part. I'd like to see the Broncos start using some more screens and whatnot next year, as that will get Tebow into more of a flow in the passing game (assuming they remain a run-oriented team, which is probably a safe one). Although one could argue that a lot of the option runs are similar to screens and whatnot. But still, a few RB and WR screens could get those players into the game a bit more in other facets as well. And I think his completion percentage would go up if they ever let him throw on first down, which they almost never do, but in some regards, they are protecting his weaknesses (some of which are glaring) by not having him throw as much. Working with Elway for a full offseason could and should do wonders for him.

 

[werdnoynek]

I am amused at how some are still hung up on his completion percentage from last week, as if that is the only stat that matters. 15 YPA? 3 total touchdown and no turnovers? Over 300 passing yards against the best pass defense? Apparently, that all means nothing, but his 48% completion percentage IS relevant, and seemingly proves that he sucks.

Most of his throws were downfield, which affects completion %. He rarely is asked to throw screens, dump offs, short crossing patterns, short curls, etc. 90% of his called throws are 15 or 20 yards plus downfield. That's why he has the high YPA and also why his completion % is low. The Broncos offense right now is run, run, and then go for a low % but high reward pass play. I don't think you can blame Tebow for the completion % and I agree with Ghost Rider.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Most of his throws were downfield, which affects completion %. He rarely is asked to throw screens, dump offs, short crossing patterns, short curls, etc. 90% of his called throws are 15 or 20 yards plus downfield. That's why he has the high YPA and also why his completion % is low. The Broncos offense right now is run, run, and then go for a low % but high reward pass play. I don't think you can blame Tebow for the completion % and I agree with Ghost Rider.

This is my favorite thing about their offense. Let the defense creep its way inwards then throw a deep play to stretch them out. Worked perfect on the last play of the Pitt game.

 

[tom22406]

ESPN did a study on Tebow and his release time

Since you're the expert I will go with what you say.

 

[FavreCo]

I din't see them run any in the games I watched; Minny, Chicago, NE and Pittsburgh; none that were effective any way.

His delivery is too slow.

tebow vs brady release time... so you're saying brady has a slow release as well?

On deep passes, sure. Virtually everyone has a similar throwing action. Which is what that 1st video is of.

 

[FavreCo]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I am amused at how some are still hung up on his completion percentage from last week, as if that is the only stat that matters. 15 YPA? 3 total touchdown and no turnovers? Over 300 passing yards against the best pass defense? Apparently, that all means nothing, but his 48% completion percentage IS relevant, and seemingly proves that he sucks.

Most of his throws were downfield, which affects completion %. He rarely is asked to throw screens, dump offs, short crossing patterns, short curls, etc. 90% of his called throws are 15 or 20 yards plus downfield. That's why he has the high YPA and also why his completion % is low. The Broncos offense right now is run, run, and then go for a low % but high reward pass play. I don't think you can blame Tebow for the completion % and I agree with Ghost Rider.

Football Outsiders had an interesting stat yesteray:

Overall, 17.3 percent of Tebow's passes were bombs [25+ yards past the LOS], by far the highest rate of all quarterbacks with at least 200 passes (Matt Moore of Miami was a distant second at 10.5 percent). The league average was just 6.9 percent.

 

[munchkin]

ESPN did a study on Tebow and his release time

"it will take tens of thousands of throws to change his muscle memory"....yes, his mechanics have improved since he came into the league and the dude is a hard worker but tens of thousands of throws; he hasn't changed that much.It is obvious by last week's game and his ability to make certain throws in college that Tebow can complete a pass. But like unpolished receivers who come into the league who aren't effective running the whole rout tree Tebow can't effectively throw the whole route tree. Perhaps he learns this. Perhaps the OC is able to compensate for this (as McCoy did last Sunday) and his efficiency and ability to be a consistently effective NFL QB is established.

Tebow does not have a quick release. The piece is talking about averages. The defensive alignment matters but a quick throw by the QB sets up the receiver and makes the blocks more effective.

 

[werdnoynek]

ESPN did a study on Tebow and his release time

 

[werdnoynek]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

i didn't say it was fast... but it's definitely not slow.

 

[ConfusedRealist]

The people arguing about screen passes realize that is a non issue because it goes against John Fox's "tough guy" football mentality right? If you'd watched the games with Orton at QB, you would have noticed he simply does not like calling screen passes because he feels like they're "cheap and cheesy," despite the fact that was Moreno's best strength, Fox refused to utilize it no matter how many times Orton would get sacked.

Also this forum should install some sort of ignore feature.

 

[FavreCo]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

i didn't say it was fast... but it's definitely not slow.

I'm going to agree after watching that video. I won't go with slow. Looks fine actually but I want to see slants to the left and right. He has the slant to the left down. More intermediate passes, etc. I was comparing his to what I see in the top guys release. Probably unfair. I don't even think Brady has a 'quick release'. The pass to Gronk was fast and quick releases are tough to defend.Also I need to see this: Throw the pass to a spot before the Wr turns. I'm not talking bombs either. The WR knows where he is supposed to go. The QB has to put the ball there. Rodgers and Brees have mastered that.

 

[FavreCo]

The people arguing about screen passes realize that is a non issue because it goes against John Fox's "tough guy" football mentality right? If you'd watched the games with Orton at QB, you would have noticed he simply does not like calling screen passes because he feels like they're "cheap and cheesy," despite the fact that was Moreno's best strength, Fox refused to utilize it no matter how many times Orton would get sacked.Also this forum should install some sort of ignore feature.

WTF! That's equivalent to Martz and TE use. Look where he is. No NFL coach that is worth a #### says we don't do that because it's not 'tough football'. I would love to see a link of Fox saying that. Oh yeah, ignore is for cowards and wusses. Knock yourself out, it's on the site somewhere.

 

[werdnoynek]

ESPN did a study on Tebow and his release time

i agree to an extent - but imo his release really doesn't have as much of an impact on him as other qb's who just stand in the pocket and do not move. with tebow's ability to run and move in the pocket, defenses aren't playing him the same. i just don't see it being as relevant... he's shown he can make all the NFL passes and while it may be a 1/10 of a second slower than the average QB (when he first came into the NFL) the impact on his game is minimal if any. this is ignoring the fact that he's been working on the release and has improved from where he was when this video was made.

 

[werdnoynek]

The people arguing about screen passes realize that is a non issue because it goes against John Fox's "tough guy" football mentality right? If you'd watched the games with Orton at QB, you would have noticed he simply does not like calling screen passes because he feels like they're "cheap and cheesy," despite the fact that was Moreno's best strength, Fox refused to utilize it no matter how many times Orton would get sacked.Also this forum should install some sort of ignore feature.

WTF! That's equivalent to Martz and TE use. Look where he is. No NFL coach that is worth a #### says we don't do that because it's not 'tough football'. I would love to see a link of Fox saying that.

i'm not sure why i'm doing this but...

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

i didn't say it was fast... but it's definitely not slow.

I'm going to agree after watching that video. I won't go with slow. Looks fine actually but I want to see slants to the left and right. He has the slant to the left down. More intermediate passes, etc. I was comparing his to what I see in the top guys release. Probably unfair. I don't even think Brady has a 'quick release'. The pass to Gronk was fast and quick releases are tough to defend.Also I need to see this: Throw the pass to a spot before the Wr turns. I'm not talking bombs either. The WR knows where he is supposed to go. The QB has to put the ball there. Rodgers and Brees have mastered that.

This is a two part deal, both the QB and WR need to be on the same page and it only comes through reps. Not only did Tebow not have a full off-season to work with his receivers, he also had virtually no reps with the #1 offense once training camp started. I'm curious to see how this develops next year

 

[FavreCo]

The people arguing about screen passes realize that is a non issue because it goes against John Fox's "tough guy" football mentality right? If you'd watched the games with Orton at QB, you would have noticed he simply does not like calling screen passes because he feels like they're "cheap and cheesy," despite the fact that was Moreno's best strength, Fox refused to utilize it no matter how many times Orton would get sacked.Also this forum should install some sort of ignore feature.

WTF! That's equivalent to Martz and TE use. Look where he is. No NFL coach that is worth a #### says we don't do that because it's not 'tough football'. I would love to see a link of Fox saying that.

i'm not sure why i'm doing this but...

I'm not sure either. My original post was a lot ruder including calling BS on it all.

 

[FavreCo]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

i didn't say it was fast... but it's definitely not slow.

I'm going to agree after watching that video. I won't go with slow. Looks fine actually but I want to see slants to the left and right. He has the slant to the left down. More intermediate passes, etc. I was comparing his to what I see in the top guys release. Probably unfair. I don't even think Brady has a 'quick release'. The pass to Gronk was fast and quick releases are tough to defend.Also I need to see this: Throw the pass to a spot before the Wr turns. I'm not talking bombs either. The WR knows where he is supposed to go. The QB has to put the ball there. Rodgers and Brees have mastered that.

This is a two part deal, both the QB and WR need to be on the same page and it only comes through reps. Not only did Tebow not have a full off-season to work with his receivers, he also had virtually no reps with the #1 offense once training camp started. I'm curious to see how this develops next year

No doubt. It's taken a lot of work to get where those guys are at. Guys like the Sanchize will never be there. They don't have the desire. The Tebow definately has that.

 

[werdnoynek]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

i didn't say it was fast... but it's definitely not slow.

I'm going to agree after watching that video. I won't go with slow. Looks fine actually but I want to see slants to the left and right. He has the slant to the left down. More intermediate passes, etc. I was comparing his to what I see in the top guys release. Probably unfair. I don't even think Brady has a 'quick release'. The pass to Gronk was fast and quick releases are tough to defend.Also I need to see this: Throw the pass to a spot before the Wr turns. I'm not talking bombs either. The WR knows where he is supposed to go. The QB has to put the ball there. Rodgers and Brees have mastered that.

This is a two part deal, both the QB and WR need to be on the same page and it only comes through reps. Not only did Tebow not have a full off-season to work with his receivers, he also had virtually no reps with the #1 offense once training camp started. I'm curious to see how this develops next year

i agree with both of you ( ) ... he isn't quite where the elites are in terms with being in sync with his receivers, but i agree alot of that has to do with lack of reps with them. time will tell if he can take it to the next level as a passer, but imo he can get there with his work ethic.

 

[TebowCo]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

You're the one wearing homer glasses. And hater glasses. Time to take yours off and realize Tebow is ushering in a new era in football, a postmodern excellence you're just late to the party for, old man.

 

[werdnoynek]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

You're the one wearing homer glasses. And hater glasses. Time to take yours off and realize Tebow is ushering in a new era in football, a postmodern excellence you're just late to the party for, old man.

 

[FavreCo]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

You're the one wearing homer glasses. And hater glasses. Time to take yours off and realize Tebow is ushering in a new era in football, a postmodern excellence you're just late to the party for, old man.

It's always good to see The Tebow make an appearance.

 

[tom22406]

His throwing motion is not really the main concern with me while watching him even though at times it does look like his a a MLB pitcher in his windup.His progress will depend on improved footwork, timing with his receivers, ability to read the defense, go through progressions quickly, manipulate the defensive backs.

Once I see those areas improve on a consistent basis I think we can say he has arrived as a QB.If he continues to struggle with those skills it may be a short ride.

As has been pointed out numerous times not getting the reps in a shorten camp with no off-season to work with the receivers all have played a part in this and let's also give him credit a his outstanding work ethic.

I'm not saying he ever will be that good,I'm saying he has a ways to go to get to that point.

 

[FavreCo]

His throwing motion is not really the main concern with me while watching him even though at times it does look like his a a MLB pitcher in his windup.His progress will depend on improved footwork, timing with his receivers, ability to read the defense, go through progressions quickly, manipulate the defensive backs.Once I see those areas improve on a consistent basis I think we can say he has arrived as a QB.If he continues to struggle with those skills it may be a short ride.As has been pointed out numerous times not getting the reps in a shorten camp with no off-season to work with the receivers all have played a part in this and let's also give him credit a his outstanding work ethic.I'm not saying he ever will be that good,I'm saying he has a ways to go to get to that point.

I'll second all of the above. Can someone total up the # of FavreCo posts in this thread? I know a while back I was 2nd. I'm confident thru sheer dedication and perseverance that I am the top poster.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

 

[BigJilm]

His throwing motion is not really the main concern with me while watching him even though at times it does look like his a a MLB pitcher in his windup.His progress will depend on improved footwork, timing with his receivers, ability to read the defense, go through progressions quickly, manipulate the defensive backs.Once I see those areas improve on a consistent basis I think we can say he has arrived as a QB.If he continues to struggle with those skills it may be a short ride.As has been pointed out numerous times not getting the reps in a shorten camp with no off-season to work with the receivers all have played a part in this and let's also give him credit a his outstanding work ethic.I'm not saying he ever will be that good,I'm saying he has a ways to go to get to that point.

I'll second all of the above. Can someone total up the # of FavreCo posts in this thread? I know a while back I was 2nd. I'm confident thru sheer dedication and perseverance that I am the top poster.

Yeah, dedication and perseverance. I suppose that's one way of putting it.

 

[AmosMoses]

 

[Gopher State]

"Santa Claus used to wonder if Tim Tebow was real."

 

[CravenM]

It's always amusing how people will only compare the "speed" of Tebow's release to Manning, Brady, Brees and Rogers. How about comparing their running ability?

Let the Broncos get a few decent WRs and TEs that can catch the ball (i.e. hands of glue) like a Marvin Harrison, Jerry Rice, Anquan Boldin, Percy Harvin etc. and the Broncos will be great in the future.

And as soon as the offensive coordinator realizes that "3rd and 1" is equivalent to "Tebow Time", AND the offensive line stops feeling the need to hold on 3rd and 1, and the Broncos offense will be unstoppable.

 

[Football Jones]

The Tebow dynamic is really fascinating. I kinda get a kick out of people who were once adamant he would fail, but now you see them sorta changing their tune a little bit, LOL.

Tebow isn't a lock, but it was evident as early as last season this kid has a real chance. Not KIND of a chance, but a REAL chance to be a good NFL QB with his many attributes. What's even better is his FF upside is even higher (& afterall, that's why we're here).

 

[moleculo]

FYI, Tebow was 5-2 in SEC championship games and bowls. So that = playoff win.

For two of those wins, Tebow was a goal line/short yardage specialist, not the starting QB.Actually that would probably be a good way for the Broncos to use him, now that I think about it. Many teams employ a goal line back who isn't nearly skilled enough to play the position the rest of the game, no reason you can't do that with a QB too. You know, as long as you wasted a first round pick and a bunch of money on him already.

You know that can never happen, right?

Yeah, I know. You'd have to make him the backup, too for roster purposes. Not worth the risk of actually having to play him if your starter goes down.

That's not why. It's because Tebowites are so irrational they will make life hell for the starting QB and coach...doing things like putting up billboards, chanting for him after every incomplete pass, etc. It would place an undue amount of pressure on whomever is starting, outside of Brady/Brees/Manning.Regardless of his actual skills, Tebow cannot co-exist with a legit starting QB.

I know. I just like to poke the Tebowites with a stick every now and again. They're hilarious. Gotta be hell on a rational Broncos fan, though.

What if the Tebowites are actually the rational ones, are we are the ones who are delusional?

 

[DoubleG]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

You just told a guy from Wisconsin to take his homer goggles off when looking at Tebow and look at...Aaron Rodgers. Irony can be so ironic sometimes.Carry on.

 

[werdnoynek]

It's slow.

when/if you take your hate-blinders off let me know, maybe then we can have an educated discussion on the matter. until then, it's obvious to me your dislike for the kid has made you delusional. if we brought in a neutral party with no interest in tebow, brady, or football for that matter, they couldn't tell the difference between their releases. because there isn't an obvious difference other than their form... the timing difference is minute if anything.

You want fast, go watch Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. That's fast. Rodgers back shoulder pass is incredible. When he rockets those to Jennings and company to the front corner of the EZ, it's virtually impossible to cover. Short compact delivery. That is what a fast delivery looks like. Take you homer goggles off.

You just told a guy from Wisconsin to take his homer goggles off when looking at Tebow and look at...Aaron Rodgers. Irony can be so ironic sometimes.Carry on.

 

[Hoss Style]

It's always amusing how people will only compare the "speed" of Tebow's release to Manning, Brady, Brees and Rogers. How about comparing their running ability?

Let the Broncos get a few decent WRs and TEs that can catch the ball (i.e. hands of glue) like a Marvin Harrison, Jerry Rice, Anquan Boldin, Percy Harvin etc. and the Broncos will be great in the future.

And as soon as the offensive coordinator realizes that "3rd and 1" is equivalent to "Tebow Time", AND the offensive line stops feeling the need to hold on 3rd and 1, and the Broncos offense will be unstoppable.

And this is why we have FarveCo. Without him who would balance out posts that blame coaches, the OL, the WRs, and the TEs (all in one post, mind you!) and even go so far as to say we (I'm a Bronco's fan) would be UNSTOPPABLE! if only everyone else would step up their game.I'm sorry, Craven - most of your posts have been reasonable up until this point. I just can't agree with you on this one though. Bagging on our O-line is the worst, though. Most here in Denver agree that without the stellar play of our O-line that Tebow wouldn't even have the time to do what he does. The way they have adapted to his running and scrambling and how they adapt mid-play to pick up defenders while Tebow is moving has been great to see.

I appreciate FarveCo's contributions to this thread. At the very least it rustles the Tebow-followers out of the bushes when he infuriates them into making brash, crazy remarks.

Somewhere in the middle is where I stand - a Broncos fan watching with interest as our team develops. I feared NE before and I do again. We are either going to make the plays we have to make to keep their offense off the field (and under control when it is on the field) or we are going to get blown out. We need to keep turnovers down and control that clock. We need to get pressure on Brady.

And maybe... we need to pray.

 

[AmosMoses]

FYI, Tebow was 5-2 in SEC championship games and bowls. So that = playoff win.

For two of those wins, Tebow was a goal line/short yardage specialist, not the starting QB.Actually that would probably be a good way for the Broncos to use him, now that I think about it. Many teams employ a goal line back who isn't nearly skilled enough to play the position the rest of the game, no reason you can't do that with a QB too. You know, as long as you wasted a first round pick and a bunch of money on him already.

You know that can never happen, right?

Yeah, I know. You'd have to make him the backup, too for roster purposes. Not worth the risk of actually having to play him if your starter goes down.

That's not why. It's because Tebowites are so irrational they will make life hell for the starting QB and coach...doing things like putting up billboards, chanting for him after every incomplete pass, etc. It would place an undue amount of pressure on whomever is starting, outside of Brady/Brees/Manning.Regardless of his actual skills, Tebow cannot co-exist with a legit starting QB.

I know. I just like to poke the Tebowites with a stick every now and again. They're hilarious. Gotta be hell on a rational Broncos fan, though.

What if the Tebowites are actually the rational ones, are we are the ones who are delusional?

You should read Tobias' posts about college football. He discounts penalties and turnovers as components to how a team plays and gives most credit to total yardage gained.

 

[munchkin]

It's always amusing how people will only compare the "speed" of Tebow's release to Manning, Brady, Brees and Rogers. How about comparing their running ability?

Let the Broncos get a few decent WRs and TEs that can catch the ball (i.e. hands of glue) like a Marvin Harrison, Jerry Rice, Anquan Boldin, Percy Harvin etc. and the Broncos will be great in the future.

And as soon as the offensive coordinator realizes that "3rd and 1" is equivalent to "Tebow Time", AND the offensive line stops feeling the need to hold on 3rd and 1, and the Broncos offense will be unstoppable.

The absurdity of the discussion has reached the level of no return. I'll take any of those guys for the Pats too. How good would Brady be if he had Marvin and Jerry in their prime? Heck, Brees might throw for 10,000 yards. Ok, I agree, a QBs ability to release the ball in a timely fashion has nothing to do with an offense's effectiveness. And Brady is as an effective runner as Tebow. Hell, how many 4th and 1's has he converted. Brady time baby. Did you see the fake he threw on Urlacher a few years ago?

Brady could be a 1,000 yard rusher if he had Anthony Munoz, Larry Allen, John Hannah, Jimm Otto and Jackie Slater blocking for him. Heck, Benjamin Brady could rush for 1,000. How many steps is that for a two year old.

Wew, I feel better now. Waxing poetic on absurdity is very healing.

Enjoy the game on Saurday night. As a resident of Colorado it's fair to say that Tebow has raised the hopes of many, but not nearly all, of the Broncos faithful. He is as polarizing a figure locally as he is nationally. If I was a Broncos' fan I would be happy we were winning after the failures of the later Shanahan tenure and McDaniels' mind numbing melt down. I don't think the Charges' fans feel any better about losing with a really good QB. Nor have we Pats fans who have been one and done the last couple of years. If your team is getting it done, the rest is up for debate. Scoreboard baby.....

 

[ivnabru]

It's always amusing how people will only compare the "speed" of Tebow's release to Manning, Brady, Brees and Rogers. How about comparing their running ability?

Let the Broncos get a few decent WRs and TEs that can catch the ball (i.e. hands of glue) like a Marvin Harrison, Jerry Rice, Anquan Boldin, Percy Harvin etc. and the Broncos will be great in the future.

And as soon as the offensive coordinator realizes that "3rd and 1" is equivalent to "Tebow Time", AND the offensive line stops feeling the need to hold on 3rd and 1, and the Broncos offense will be unstoppable.

The absurdity of the discussion has reached the level of no return. I'll take any of those guys for the Pats too. How good would Brady be if he had Marvin and Jerry in their prime? Heck, Brees might throw for 10,000 yards.

Ok, I agree, a QBs ability to release the ball in a timely fashion has nothing to do with an offense's effectiveness. And Brady is as an effective runner as Tebow. Hell, how many 4th and 1's has he converted. Brady time baby. Did you see the fake he threw on Urlacher a few years ago? Brady could be a 1,000 yard rusher if he had Anthony Munoz, Larry Allen, John Hannah, Jimm Otto and Jackie Slater blocking for him. Heck, Benjamin Brady could rush for 1,000. How many steps is that for a two year old.

Wew, I feel better now. Waxing poetic on absurdity is very healing.

Enjoy the game on Saurday night. As a resident of Colorado it's fair to say that Tebow has raised the hopes of many, but not nearly all, of the Broncos faithful. He is as polarizing a figure locally as he is nationally. If I was a Broncos' fan I would be happy we were winning after the failures of the later Shanahan tenure and McDaniels' mind numbing melt down. I don't think the Charges' fans feel any better about losing with a really good QB. Nor have we Pats fans who have been one and done the last couple of years. If your team is getting it done, the rest is up for debate. Scoreboard baby.....

Brady did have Moss in his prime who a lot of people would rate as the 2nd best WR ever. Welker might go down as a pretty good WR too when it's all said and done.

 

[ConfusedRealist]

The people arguing about screen passes realize that is a non issue because it goes against John Fox's "tough guy" football mentality right? If you'd watched the games with Orton at QB, you would have noticed he simply does not like calling screen passes because he feels like they're "cheap and cheesy," despite the fact that was Moreno's best strength, Fox refused to utilize it no matter how many times Orton would get sacked.Also this forum should install some sort of ignore feature.

WTF! That's equivalent to Martz and TE use. Look where he is. No NFL coach that is worth a #### says we don't do that because it's not 'tough football'. I would love to see a link of Fox saying that. Oh yeah, ignore is for cowards and wusses. Knock yourself out, it's on the site somewhere.

I've been pushing for Fox (and Elway for hiring Fox) to get fired since before Tebow was even the QB. What kind of idiot brings in a coach that hates the majority of his skill position players because they don't fit into his "tough guy" football stereotype? John Elway apparently.And he never said it directly, but like I said watch the games. Especially the early ones with Kyle Orton at QB and Moreno at RB. Orton gets crushed ALL DAY and Fox refuses to do even the most basic of coaching adjustments and just watches his team lose as his loser QB drops back 40+ times.

 

[GeauxTigers]

He started the season as the third-stringer, and everyone freaked out. Then he got a start and won, and everyone freaked out. Then in his second start, he played horribly and got crushed, and everyone freaked out. Then he went on a winning streak, and everyone freaked out. Then he went on a losing streak, and everyone freaked out. Then he won a playoff game, and everyone freaked out.

 

[Two Deep]

Reading back through, I think Hoss Style may be the only reasonable person here.

 

[GeauxTigers]

Just curious - how much of the anti-Tebow is based in anti-Christianity?

It works both ways.

I disagree. I think people like him more because he is a great person and not a criminal or thug like many NFL players. There are many "Christians" in the NFL.

 

[FavreCo]

It's always amusing how people will only compare the "speed" of Tebow's release to Manning, Brady, Brees and Rogers. How about comparing their running ability?

Let the Broncos get a few decent WRs and TEs that can catch the ball (i.e. hands of glue) like a Marvin Harrison, Jerry Rice, Anquan Boldin, Percy Harvin etc. and the Broncos will be great in the future.

And as soon as the offensive coordinator realizes that "3rd and 1" is equivalent to "Tebow Time", AND the offensive line stops feeling the need to hold on 3rd and 1, and the Broncos offense will be unstoppable.

And this is why we have FarveCo. Without him who would balance out posts that blame coaches, the OL, the WRs, and the TEs (all in one post, mind you!) and even go so far as to say we (I'm a Bronco's fan) would be UNSTOPPABLE! if only everyone else would step up their game.I'm sorry, Craven - most of your posts have been reasonable up until this point. I just can't agree with you on this one though. Bagging on our O-line is the worst, though. Most here in Denver agree that without the stellar play of our O-line that Tebow wouldn't even have the time to do what he does. The way they have adapted to his running and scrambling and how they adapt mid-play to pick up defenders while Tebow is moving has been great to see.

I appreciate FarveCo's contributions to this thread. At the very least it rustles the Tebow-followers out of the bushes when he infuriates them into making brash, crazy remarks.

Somewhere in the middle is where I stand - a Broncos fan watching with interest as our team develops. I feared NE before and I do again. We are either going to make the plays we have to make to keep their offense off the field (and under control when it is on the field) or we are going to get blown out. We need to keep turnovers down and control that clock. We need to get pressure on Brady.

And maybe... we need to pray.

Someone has to set them straight. They were all over Thomas #### pages back but can't be now after the last few games. All over Royal's #### also. It's everyone fault but The Tebow's. At the same time they say the 'hater's' (such comedy) won't give The Tebow any credit. Even when we do, they look like asses by saying that it was not a genuine compliment.

 

[Chaka]

Just curious - how much of the anti-Tebow is based in anti-Christianity?

It works both ways.

I disagree. I think people like him more because he is a great person and not a criminal or thug like many NFL players. There are many "Christians" in the NFL.

He isn't the only non-thug Christian who is a great person either.

 

[FavreCo]

The people arguing about screen passes realize that is a non issue because it goes against John Fox's "tough guy" football mentality right? If you'd watched the games with Orton at QB, you would have noticed he simply does not like calling screen passes because he feels like they're "cheap and cheesy," despite the fact that was Moreno's best strength, Fox refused to utilize it no matter how many times Orton would get sacked.

Also this forum should install some sort of ignore feature.

WTF! That's equivalent to Martz and TE use. Look where he is. No NFL coach that is worth a #### says we don't do that because it's not 'tough football'. I would love to see a link of Fox saying that. Oh yeah, ignore is for cowards and wusses. Knock yourself out, it's on the site somewhere.

I've been pushing for Fox (and Elway for hiring Fox) to get fired since before Tebow was even the QB. What kind of idiot brings in a coach that hates the majority of his skill position players because they don't fit into his "tough guy" football stereotype? John Elway apparently.And he never said it directly, but like I said watch the games. Especially the early ones with Kyle Orton at QB and Moreno at RB. Orton gets crushed ALL DAY and Fox refuses to do even the most basic of coaching adjustments and just watches his team lose as his loser QB drops back 40+ times.

I'll agree on that. Fox does suck. He took a dominating running game of Williams/Stewart as 1k backs each and for some reason decided it was a good idea to trot them out one after another his last 2 years instead of sticking with what worked in 2008. That was allowing each running back to take a series and get a rhythm going. Once they all got hurt, he had no choice with Goodson, who proceeded to bust his only 100 yards games of his career.You are stuck with him now for quite a while. Ironically The Tebow has helped solidify Fox's spot as HC.

 

[werdnoynek]

Just curious - how much of the anti-Tebow is based in anti-Christianity?

It works both ways.

I disagree. I think people like him more because he is a great person and not a criminal or thug like many NFL players. There are many "Christians" in the NFL.

He isn't the only non-thug Christian who is a great person either.

precisely, but no one else in the history of the NFL that's been outspoken about their religion has caught this much flack for it. this religious stuff is for another thread or forum all together. it's likely going no where but it amazes me it always seems to come to this.so joe schmoe is religious, but someone isn't and it's all fine and dandy until joe schmoe says something religious and then it's some how offensive because someone doesn't share the same beliefs or doesn't want to hear it. it's a bit selfish if you ask me. you'd think after hundreds and thousands of years of religions, the human race would be making progress when it comes to beliefs, but we're right where we were when tebow walked the earth... i mean jesus. religion is a huge part of many peoples lives. so huge it is their life... tebow is one of those people. why can't we just accept that and move on? if you don't like what he's saying so be it, but his religion shouldn't be the basis for arguments on his ability as a football player. "i hate his beliefs, therefor i hate him and he'll never amount to anything" ... wow. the close mindedness in this is disgusting... but it goes waaay beyond tebow. it makes my head hurt.apologies for the mini rant... hopefully we can move on from the religious talk and onto the football related discussion.

 

[ivnabru]

The people arguing about screen passes realize that is a non issue because it goes against John Fox's "tough guy" football mentality right? If you'd watched the games with Orton at QB, you would have noticed he simply does not like calling screen passes because he feels like they're "cheap and cheesy," despite the fact that was Moreno's best strength, Fox refused to utilize it no matter how many times Orton would get sacked.

Also this forum should install some sort of ignore feature.

WTF! That's equivalent to Martz and TE use. Look where he is. No NFL coach that is worth a #### says we don't do that because it's not 'tough football'. I would love to see a link of Fox saying that. Oh yeah, ignore is for cowards and wusses. Knock yourself out, it's on the site somewhere.

I've been pushing for Fox (and Elway for hiring Fox) to get fired since before Tebow was even the QB. What kind of idiot brings in a coach that hates the majority of his skill position players because they don't fit into his "tough guy" football stereotype? John Elway apparently.And he never said it directly, but like I said watch the games. Especially the early ones with Kyle Orton at QB and Moreno at RB. Orton gets crushed ALL DAY and Fox refuses to do even the most basic of coaching adjustments and just watches his team lose as his loser QB drops back 40+ times.

I'll agree on that. Fox does suck. He took a dominating running game of Williams/Stewart as 1k backs each and for some reason decided it was a good idea to trot them out one after another his last 2 years instead of sticking with what worked in 2008. That was allowing each running back to take a series and get a rhythm going. Once they all got hurt, he had no choice with Goodson, who proceeded to bust his only 100 yards games of his career.You are stuck with him now for quite a while. Ironically The Tebow has helped solidify Fox's spot as HC.

Please explain the irony for those of us who are lost.

 

[FavreCo]

The people arguing about screen passes realize that is a non issue because it goes against John Fox's "tough guy" football mentality right? If you'd watched the games with Orton at QB, you would have noticed he simply does not like calling screen passes because he feels like they're "cheap and cheesy," despite the fact that was Moreno's best strength, Fox refused to utilize it no matter how many times Orton would get sacked.

Also this forum should install some sort of ignore feature.

WTF! That's equivalent to Martz and TE use. Look where he is. No NFL coach that is worth a #### says we don't do that because it's not 'tough football'. I would love to see a link of Fox saying that. Oh yeah, ignore is for cowards and wusses. Knock yourself out, it's on the site somewhere.

I've been pushing for Fox (and Elway for hiring Fox) to get fired since before Tebow was even the QB. What kind of idiot brings in a coach that hates the majority of his skill position players because they don't fit into his "tough guy" football stereotype? John Elway apparently.And he never said it directly, but like I said watch the games. Especially the early ones with Kyle Orton at QB and Moreno at RB. Orton gets crushed ALL DAY and Fox refuses to do even the most basic of coaching adjustments and just watches his team lose as his loser QB drops back 40+ times.

I'll agree on that. Fox does suck. He took a dominating running game of Williams/Stewart as 1k backs each and for some reason decided it was a good idea to trot them out one after another his last 2 years instead of sticking with what worked in 2008. That was allowing each running back to take a series and get a rhythm going. Once they all got hurt, he had no choice with Goodson, who proceeded to bust his only 100 yards games of his career.You are stuck with him now for quite a while. Ironically The Tebow has helped solidify Fox's spot as HC.

Please explain the irony for those of us who are lost.

Sure. Without The Tebow winning those games, Fox would have had a disasterous year. One foot closer out the door. Most everyone knows Fox sucks. Via the 'tebow magic', The Tebow has helped keep the same guy that ConfusedRealist ( a Broncos fan from what I gather) would like removed.Your lesson is complete. No charge.

 

[ConfusedRealist]

The people arguing about screen passes realize that is a non issue because it goes against John Fox's "tough guy" football mentality right? If you'd watched the games with Orton at QB, you would have noticed he simply does not like calling screen passes because he feels like they're "cheap and cheesy," despite the fact that was Moreno's best strength, Fox refused to utilize it no matter how many times Orton would get sacked.Also this forum should install some sort of ignore feature.

WTF! That's equivalent to Martz and TE use. Look where he is. No NFL coach that is worth a #### says we don't do that because it's not 'tough football'. I would love to see a link of Fox saying that.

i'm not sure why i'm doing this but...

I'm glad we all agree Fox is a jackass at least.

 

[zoonation]

Don't have time to read 60 pages.

Are people in this thread actually arguing that Tim Tebow is an elite NFL QB?

Not that it would surprise me at all around here.

The Broncos will get destroyed this weekend.