Tom Brady looking like a 6th Rd Draft Pick (1 Viewer)

[GroveDiesel]

I'll just leave this stat from PFF right here:

New England Patriots: Quarterback Tom Brady has an Accuracy Percentage of 62.5%, which is the leagues third-lowest mark, just ahead of Josh Freeman and Blaine Gabbert.

 

[weebs]

Brady could have went down as the greatest of all time but his team lost 2 SBs when he was the QB. He is 3-5, solid but those two losses are big cracks in the discussion of best of all time.

Peyton Manning had chances to go down as the greatest of all time. However, his poor playoff performances after many great regular seasons hurt his reputation. Even if you get past that, he then lost in the SB when Indy was a solid favorite to win.

Both players will go down as two of the greatest Qbs of all time and the two best of their era. You will have people discussing these two against each other for eternity.

Not everything can be tested and measured and put neatly on a spreadsheet for all to see. Many players played in different eras, under different NFL rules effecting how defenses and offenses can compete against each other.

Nobody has ever played better under pressure and as smoothly as Joe Montana. He was perfect in the SB, he didn't have that let down, he wouldn't let his team lose.

I don't get into the "Best QB ever" debates so that's not what this is, but people don't seem to realize that Brady walked off the field with 2 minutes or less on the clock with the lead in both Super Bowl losses. He gets blamed for his defense, and crazy helmet catches when the facts are he could just as easily been 5-0 in the Super Bowl.

I also think Marino is one of the best ever, and don't think his SB record, or lack thereof, should play a role in that decision.

Brady coulda woulda shoulda. But he didnt. He was carried by his defense the first 2 superbowls anyway.

 

[DoubleG]

Don't call me bro, pal.

Don't call him pal, chief.

Dude

Don't call me dude, sport.

Take it easy there, sparky.

 

[msudaisy26]

Brady could have went down as the greatest of all time but his team lost 2 SBs when he was the QB. He is 3-5, solid but those two losses are big cracks in the discussion of best of all time.

Peyton Manning had chances to go down as the greatest of all time. However, his poor playoff performances after many great regular seasons hurt his reputation. Even if you get past that, he then lost in the SB when Indy was a solid favorite to win.

Both players will go down as two of the greatest Qbs of all time and the two best of their era. You will have people discussing these two against each other for eternity.

Not everything can be tested and measured and put neatly on a spreadsheet for all to see. Many players played in different eras, under different NFL rules effecting how defenses and offenses can compete against each other.

Nobody has ever played better under pressure and as smoothly as Joe Montana. He was perfect in the SB, he didn't have that let down, he wouldn't let his team lose.

I don't get into the "Best QB ever" debates so that's not what this is, but people don't seem to realize that Brady walked off the field with 2 minutes or less on the clock with the lead in both Super Bowl losses. He gets blamed for his defense, and crazy helmet catches when the facts are he could just as easily been 5-0 in the Super Bowl.

I also think Marino is one of the best ever, and don't think his SB record, or lack thereof, should play a role in that decision.

Brady coulda woulda shoulda. But he didnt. He was carried by his defense the first 2 superbowls anyway.

Really, I am not sure what game I was watching then. I was pretty sure it was Brady playing quarterback that set up the game winning field goal attempt against the Rams. It is the Patriots though it might have been Troy Brown with a Brady jersey on or Ty Law or something.

 

[CalBear]

Really, I am not sure what game I was watching then. I was pretty sure it was Brady playing quarterback that set up the game winning field goal attempt against the Rams. It is the Patriots though it might have been Troy Brown with a Brady jersey on or Ty Law or something.

He completed 16 of 27 passes for 145 yards and one TD. The Pats defense forced 3 turnovers (and a fourth that was called back). On the two possessions prior to the game-winning drive, including one where a first down would have won the game, the Pats offense went three-and-out, allowing the Rams to be in position to tie the game (which they did). Then, in a tie game, Brady manged to move the team to set up a 48-yard field goal; coincidentally the same distance as Wide Right. Vinatieri happens to be a better kicker than Scott Norwood.

 

[bostonfred]

Really, I am not sure what game I was watching then. I was pretty sure it was Brady playing quarterback that set up the game winning field goal attempt against the Rams. It is the Patriots though it might have been Troy Brown with a Brady jersey on or Ty Law or something.

He completed 16 of 27 passes for 145 yards and one TD. The Pats defense forced 3 turnovers (and a fourth that was called back). On the two possessions prior to the game-winning drive, including one where a first down would have won the game, the Pats offense went three-and-out, allowing the Rams to be in position to tie the game (which they did). Then, in a tie game, Brady manged to move the team to set up a 48-yard field goal; coincidentally the same distance as Wide Right. Vinatieri happens to be a better kicker than Scott Norwood.

It was easy to beat the Rams that year. Everyone was doing it.

 

[CalBear]

Really, I am not sure what game I was watching then. I was pretty sure it was Brady playing quarterback that set up the game winning field goal attempt against the Rams. It is the Patriots though it might have been Troy Brown with a Brady jersey on or Ty Law or something.

He completed 16 of 27 passes for 145 yards and one TD. The Pats defense forced 3 turnovers (and a fourth that was called back). On the two possessions prior to the game-winning drive, including one where a first down would have won the game, the Pats offense went three-and-out, allowing the Rams to be in position to tie the game (which they did). Then, in a tie game, Brady manged to move the team to set up a 48-yard field goal; coincidentally the same distance as Wide Right. Vinatieri happens to be a better kicker than Scott Norwood.

It was easy to beat the Rams that year. Everyone was doing it.

The 7-9 New Orleans Saints (led by Aaron Brooks) beat the Rams, as long as we're bringing up stuff that's completely irrelevant to how well Tom Brady performed in the Super Bowl.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Really, I am not sure what game I was watching then. I was pretty sure it was Brady playing quarterback that set up the game winning field goal attempt against the Rams. It is the Patriots though it might have been Troy Brown with a Brady jersey on or Ty Law or something.

I can't recall the numbers, but I believe someone looked up something a while back that said the Pats three Super Bowls came in the three years where their defense was ranked highest.

There seems to be a high correlation between the strength of the NE defense and them winning super bowls, and no correlation between the play of Tom Brady and them winning them. In Brady's eleven healthy seasons, the Pats Super Bowl wins came in Brady's 8th, 9th, and 10th best seasons from a QB rating standpoint.

 

[SportsGuru311]

Brady will get it turned around Im sure and I only say that cause I hate the Pats and I know he will get it turned around so they improve as a team. lol. Actually a little more timing should have him back to pro bowl status

 

[Workhorse]

No QB has lost more yards through dropped passes than Tom Brady's 121.

 

[weebs]

No QB has lost more yards through dropped passes than Tom Brady's 121.

If only he didn't throw ducks maybe more would have been caught.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Don't feed the trolls.......................

 

[Ghost Rider]

I have no doubt that Brady will get things turned around, but 25th in passer rating and 33rd in YPA is pretty awful for a guy of his stature.

 

[bostonfred]

They let their top two receivers go in the offseason, lost gronk to injury, lost hernandez to murder, lost vereen until week ten, lost amendola to injury, lost bolden for the first two weeks, and ridley has been a shadow of his former self, while his leading receivers are a punt returner who was almost cut in the offseason and is averaging about 6 yards per catch, an undrafted rookie who has struggled with drops, and a second round rookie who also has struggled with drops and route running, and played in bad weather to boot.

Yet here the patriots are, undefeated after three weeks. And before you knock their schedule, the jets, bills and bucs are .500 in their six non patriot games - no better or worse than average, and not much different than the broncos, who are lauded for beating the 0-3 giants, the 1-2 raiders, and a pretty mediocre 2-1 ravens team.

You could drop any quarterback onto the broncos with that offensive talent and get big numbers. But how many quarterbacks in the nfl could lead the patriots to an undefeated record with the adversity the patriots have faced so far? This is just another chapter in the legend of the greatness that is tom brady. Enjoy it while you can because when you're telling your grandkids about the greatest qb ever to play the game, you'll want to get the details right.

 

[Ghost Rider]

 

[Workhorse]

As of this morning, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have the exact same career QB Rating in the regular season: 96.3.

 

[rick6668]

the jets, bills and bucs are .500 in their six non patriot games - no better or worse than average

Haha, nice fallacy. You're talking about six games played in which these teams have 3 wins. The Jets and Bucs have played each other as well as the Bills and Jets. There is 2 must wins right there.

So these 3 teams who the Pats have played have one win outside these guaranteed wins and that's the Bills only win last week against Carolina.

Yeah the Bills, Jets and Bucs are no better or worse than average...

They'd be average (at .500) if only they could play each other every week.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I can play this game, too:

The Broncos are playing without their first ballot Hall of Fame cornerback, their best defensive player in Von Miller, their starting center, just lost their stud left tackle, have an average running game, and a below average defense (19th right now), while Peyton is throwing to guys who were almost nothing before he got there like Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker and Julius Thomas.

Yet here the Broncos are, undefeated after three weeks. And before you knock their schedule, the Ravens, Giants, and Raiders are .500 in their non-Broncos games. And yet Peyton Manning has led the Broncos to a 3-0 record, not to mention a 16-3 regular season record since last year with a head coach who was 10-22 in his last two seasons before he had Peyton Manning.

This is just another chapter in the legend of the greatness that is Peyton Manning. Enjoy it while you can because when you're telling your grandkids about the greatest QB ever to play the game, you'll want to get the details right.

That was fun.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

the jets, bills and bucs are .500 in their six non patriot games - no better or worse than average

Haha, nice fallacy. You're talking about six games played in which these teams have 3 wins. The Jets and Bucs have played each other as well as the Bills and Jets. There is 2 must wins right there.

So these 3 teams who the Pats have played have one win outside these guaranteed wins and that's the Bills only win last week against Carolina.

Yeah the Bills, Jets and Bucs are no better or worse than average...

They'd be average (at .500) if only they could play each other every week.

isn't it also 2 guaranteed losses?

 

[lsutigers]

This is just another chapter in the legend of the greatness that is Peyton Manning. Enjoy it while you can because when you're telling your grandkids about the greatest REGULAR SEASON QB ever to play the game, you'll want to get the details right.

Fixed for you

 

[rick6668]

the jets, bills and bucs are .500 in their six non patriot games - no better or worse than average

Haha, nice fallacy. You're talking about six games played in which these teams have 3 wins. The Jets and Bucs have played each other as well as the Bills and Jets. There is 2 must wins right there.

So these 3 teams who the Pats have played have one win outside these guaranteed wins and that's the Bills only win last week against Carolina.

Yeah the Bills, Jets and Bucs are no better or worse than average...

They'd be average (at .500) if only they could play each other every week.

isn't it also 2 guaranteed losses?

Yes, which is why it is silly so say they are average teams because of their .500 combined record (discounting all the games against the Pats which they lost)

These teams have played 9 games, 4 combined against each other in which there had to be a winner and loser (discounting ties).

Removing these games against each other gives us 5 games played in which they have won one, a .200 record. Now if you want to discount the Pats wins (why I do not know) then they are 1-1, .500, but that's a real small sample size.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I can play this game, too:

The Broncos are playing without their first ballot Hall of Fame cornerback, their best defensive player in Von Miller, their starting center, just lost their stud left tackle, have an average running game, and a below average defense (19th right now), while Peyton is throwing to guys who were almost nothing before he got there like Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker and Julius Thomas.

Yet here the Broncos are, undefeated after three weeks. And before you knock their schedule, the Ravens, Giants, and Raiders are .500 in their non-Broncos games. And yet Peyton Manning has led the Broncos to a 3-0 record, not to mention a 16-3 regular season record since last year with a head coach who was 10-22 in his last two seasons before he had Peyton Manning.

This is just another chapter in the legend of the greatness that is Peyton Manning. Enjoy it while you can because when you're telling your grandkids about the greatest QB ever to play the game, you'll want to get the details right.

That was fun.

Whoa

 

[MoveToSkypager]

You guys argue so much about Tom Brady vs Peyton Manning. I need to know which guy is the best QB of all time but it's pretty close. There has to be some kind way to figure out which guy was better.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

the jets, bills and bucs are .500 in their six non patriot games - no better or worse than average

Haha, nice fallacy. You're talking about six games played in which these teams have 3 wins. The Jets and Bucs have played each other as well as the Bills and Jets. There is 2 must wins right there.

So these 3 teams who the Pats have played have one win outside these guaranteed wins and that's the Bills only win last week against Carolina.

Yeah the Bills, Jets and Bucs are no better or worse than average...

They'd be average (at .500) if only they could play each other every week.

isn't it also 2 guaranteed losses?

Yes, which is why it is silly so say they are average teams because of their .500 combined record (discounting all the games against the Pats which they lost)

These teams have played 9 games, 4 combined against each other in which there had to be a winner and loser (discounting ties).

Removing these games against each other gives us 5 games played in which they have won one, a .200 record. Now if you want to discount the Pats wins (why I do not know) then they are 1-1, .500, but that's a real small sample size.

didn't he say they were .500?

you're debunking that by claiming they're .500?

 

[rick6668]

the jets, bills and bucs are .500 in their six non patriot games - no better or worse than average

Haha, nice fallacy. You're talking about six games played in which these teams have 3 wins. The Jets and Bucs have played each other as well as the Bills and Jets. There is 2 must wins right there.

So these 3 teams who the Pats have played have one win outside these guaranteed wins and that's the Bills only win last week against Carolina.

Yeah the Bills, Jets and Bucs are no better or worse than average...

They'd be average (at .500) if only they could play each other every week.

isn't it also 2 guaranteed losses?

Yes, which is why it is silly so say they are average teams because of their .500 combined record (discounting all the games against the Pats which they lost)

These teams have played 9 games, 4 combined against each other in which there had to be a winner and loser (discounting ties).

Removing these games against each other gives us 5 games played in which they have won one, a .200 record. Now if you want to discount the Pats wins (why I do not know) then they are 1-1, .500, but that's a real small sample size.

didn't he say they were .500?

you're debunking that by claiming they're .500?

It's meaningless in judging how good of a team those three teams are. "Outside of games against the Pats" those teams have a maximum record of 4-2 and a minimum record of 2-4.

Wow so they're 3-3, they are average for the league.

Pats are winless this year against teams not the Bills, Jets and Bucs. Another meaningless stat.

 

[bostonfred]

the jets, bills and bucs are .500 in their six non patriot games - no better or worse than average

Haha, nice fallacy. You're talking about six games played in which these teams have 3 wins. The Jets and Bucs have played each other as well as the Bills and Jets. There is 2 must wins right there.

So these 3 teams who the Pats have played have one win outside these guaranteed wins and that's the Bills only win last week against Carolina.

Yeah the Bills, Jets and Bucs are no better or worse than average...

They'd be average (at .500) if only they could play each other every week.

The afc east is a perfect 9 and 3, undefeated against non division opponents. Say what you want about your preseason expectations for the dolphins, they're undefeated and just knocked off another top team. The jets were expected to be a doormat team, but they beat the bucs and bills. The bills look improved in every phase of the game, but have faced two afc east opponents. Somebody has to lose those games. The patriots are currently in first place in the afc with a three and oh record and two division wins in the toughest division so far this year.

Bradys accomplishments have always been downplayed. Every year, the so called pundits claim that the pats are beatable, and yet the patriots have gone to five superbowls in ten seasons under brady, and nobody is really surprised, because, deep down, we all know he's the greatest of all time. I feel fortunate to be a football fan at this time, let alone a patriots fan.

 

[rick6668]

the jets, bills and bucs are .500 in their six non patriot games - no better or worse than average

Haha, nice fallacy. You're talking about six games played in which these teams have 3 wins. The Jets and Bucs have played each other as well as the Bills and Jets. There is 2 must wins right there.

So these 3 teams who the Pats have played have one win outside these guaranteed wins and that's the Bills only win last week against Carolina.

Yeah the Bills, Jets and Bucs are no better or worse than average...

They'd be average (at .500) if only they could play each other every week.

The afc east is a perfect 9 and 3, undefeated against non division opponents. Say what you want about your preseason expectations for the dolphins, they're undefeated and just knocked off another top team. The jets were expected to be a doormat team, but they beat the bucs and bills. The bills look improved in every phase of the game, but have faced two afc east opponents. Somebody has to lose those games.The patriots are currently in first place in the afc with a three and oh record and two division wins in the toughest division so far this year.

Bradys accomplishments have always been downplayed. Every year, the so called pundits claim that the pats are beatable, and yet the patriots have gone to five superbowls in ten seasons under brady, and nobody is really surprised, because, deep down, we all know he's the greatest of all time. I feel fortunate to be a football fan at this time, let alone a patriots fan.

Why change the argument now? We were talking about the Pats opponents in the first 3 weeks. Have to throw Miami in there at 3-0 to try and make your argument stronger?

The Pats opponents this year are a combined 3-6 with 2 of those wins and losses being automatic.take those meaningless games out ad you have a 1-4 record.

The rest of what you wrote may be true. Nothing wrong with admitting the above part of your argument was poor and meaningless.

 

[bostonfred]

This is just another chapter in the legend of the greatness that is Peyton Manning. Enjoy it while you can because when you're telling your grandkids about the greatest REGULAR SEASON QB ever to play the game, you'll want to get the details right.

Fixed for you

I don't think you can call him the greatest regular season qb ever to play the game just because he holds the touchdown record, the interception record, and also beat marino's 25 year old yardage mark while getting multiple regular season MVPs and helping wes welker, randy moss and rob gronkowski set NFL records. Well, actually, I take it back. You probably can call Brady the greatest regular season QB ever to play the game because of all those things. But what he's doing this year - and what he did with the ragtag groups of receivers he had in 2001, 2006 and 2013 - all totally different eras in his own career as well as the team's makeup - is more impressive to me than, say, leading his team to an NFL scoring record the very first year he ever worked with Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

I think it's great that Manning is putting up better numbers than Tebow did with Decker and Thomas. The Broncos offense is unquestionably better with him back there. But to your point about the regular season, Manning is still 0-1 in the playoffs with the Broncos, and it was his interception in overtime last year that lost the game for them. I think it's fun that a Broncos fan or two has come in here trolling with the idea that Manning's accomplishments in the regular season or postseason are somehow on par with Brady's, but they're obviously just fishing.

 

[weebs]

Brady is the greatest and cheating and getting carried by defenses to win superbowls. I'll give him that.

 

[Bayhawks]

They let their top two receivers go in the offseason, lost gronk to injury, lost hernandez to murder, lost vereen until week ten, lost amendola to injury, lost bolden for the first two weeks, and ridley has been a shadow of his former self, while his leading receivers are a punt returner who was almost cut in the offseason and is averaging about 6 yards per catch, an undrafted rookie who has struggled with drops, and a second round rookie who also has struggled with drops and route running, and played in bad weather to boot.

Yet here the patriots are, undefeated after three weeks. And before you knock their schedule, the jets, bills and bucs are .500 in their six non patriot games - no better or worse than average, and not much different than the broncos, who are lauded for beating the 0-3 giants, the 1-2 raiders, and a pretty mediocre 2-1 ravens team.

You could drop any quarterback onto the broncos with that offensive talent and get big numbers. But how many quarterbacks in the nfl could lead the patriots to an undefeated record with the adversity the patriots have faced so far? This is just another chapter in the legend of the greatness that is tom brady. Enjoy it while you can because when you're telling your grandkids about the greatest qb ever to play the game, you'll want to get the details right.

Okay, until the last few lines, I thought this was serious. Brady isn't playing great this year, and that's just the truth. Does the fact that his weapons are gone, hurt, or inexperienced contribute to that? Absolutely, but it is ridiculous to say this season (to date) is any kind of positive towards Brady's legacy.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Brady is the greatest and cheating and getting carried by defenses to win superbowls. I'll give him that.

Come on dude. That's old news and it wasn't even cheating.

 

[bostonfred]

They let their top two receivers go in the offseason, lost gronk to injury, lost hernandez to murder, lost vereen until week ten, lost amendola to injury, lost bolden for the first two weeks, and ridley has been a shadow of his former self, while his leading receivers are a punt returner who was almost cut in the offseason and is averaging about 6 yards per catch, an undrafted rookie who has struggled with drops, and a second round rookie who also has struggled with drops and route running, and played in bad weather to boot.

Yet here the patriots are, undefeated after three weeks. And before you knock their schedule, the jets, bills and bucs are .500 in their six non patriot games - no better or worse than average, and not much different than the broncos, who are lauded for beating the 0-3 giants, the 1-2 raiders, and a pretty mediocre 2-1 ravens team.

You could drop any quarterback onto the broncos with that offensive talent and get big numbers. But how many quarterbacks in the nfl could lead the patriots to an undefeated record with the adversity the patriots have faced so far? This is just another chapter in the legend of the greatness that is tom brady. Enjoy it while you can because when you're telling your grandkids about the greatest qb ever to play the game, you'll want to get the details right.

Okay, until the last few lines, I thought this was serious. Brady isn't playing great this year, and that's just the truth. Does the fact that his weapons are gone, hurt, or inexperienced contribute to that? Absolutely, but it is ridiculous to say this season (to date) is any kind of positive towards Brady's legacy.

He has arguably the worst collection of offensive weapons in the league right now, and has still led the Patriots to a 3-0 record. He isn't starting himself in fantasy football, he's trying to win football games, and he's done it every single game so far this season. I understand that his numbers are down, but the fact that his numbers so obviously correlate to the level of talent around him is more of a testament to how easy it is to get stats when you have great receivers. Looking at his numbers, he's been remarkably good despite the turmoil - 288 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT week one, when his number one receiver hurt his groin midway through the game, and Kenbrell dropped multiple passes. Not bad. 225 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT week three, can't complain about that.

So let's look at week two, which is where the "not playing great this year" charge seems to come from. It was a nationally televised game, after all, and he only put up 185 yards and a TD against the lowly Jets. But let's look behind that a little. Sure, he lost Welker and Hernandez, and didn't have Gronk, but we knew all that going into the season. Those aren't excuses. But in the short week between week one and week two, he also lost Amendola to a groin injury, Shane Vereen went on IR, and Zach Sudfeld was also injured. Only four players caught passes from Brady week two - Edelman, Kenbrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson, and James Develin. I'd bet that most people couldn't even tell me what position James Develin plays. Moreover, this was also a Thursday game, and with all the injuries, the Patriots didn't even practice during the week. They played in a heavy downpour, and the receivers couldn't catch the ball. Some of those were listed as official drops, other catchable balls weren't. The running game was horrendous - the team attempted 24 rushed for 56 yards. And the Jets, at least so far, have been better than advertised, with a 2-0 record against teams that are not the Patriots. If that was the only game you saw from Brady all year, it would be easy to say he hasn't played well. His QB rating in that game was 71. Last week was 92.9, much closer to his career rating of 96.3.

Tom Brady may have earned MVP awards the years that he was setting NFL records, but he is arguably the most valuable player in the NFL right now for singlehandedly carrying this offense and leading his team to an undefeated record.

 

[Ghost Rider]

BTW, if we are gonna talk strength of schedule, two of Brady's win this year are against rookie QBs; two of Peyton's wins are against QBs who have a combined three Super Bowl MVP awards.

Brady isn't playing great this year, and that's just the truth. Does the fact that his weapons are gone, hurt, or inexperienced contribute to that? Absolutely, but it is ridiculous to say this season (to date) is any kind of positive towards Brady's legacy.

All true. Once Brady gets some of his good weapons back, he'll be fine and be back to lighting it up, but they are winning so far, well, not in spite of him, but not because of him. They beat a Bills team with a rookie starting his first game at QB with a last second FG, they needed Geno Smith to repeatedly implode in the 4th quarter to beat the Jets, and they beat up on a Bucs team that appears to have a coach and QB both on the way out sooner rather than later. If the Patriots had had the same first three weeks schedule of SF, Indy, GB, or even Miami, they'd be fortunate to be 1-2.

 

[NIU Kicker]

As of this morning, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have the exact same career QB Rating in the regular season: 96.3.

Maybe if Brady plays the next ten years in a dome with first round talent at WR and Peyton spends then next8 years with dregs playing outside in Denver we can calm it even.

 

[CalBear]

Bradys accomplishments have always been downplayed.

bostonfred has made a lot of ridiculous statements in the Shark Pool, but this is on a whole new level.

 

[msudaisy26]

I can play this game, too:

The Broncos are playing without their first ballot Hall of Fame cornerback, their best defensive player in Von Miller, their starting center, just lost their stud left tackle, have an average running game, and a below average defense (19th right now), while Peyton is throwing to guys who were almost nothing before he got there like Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker and Julius Thomas.

Yet here the Broncos are, undefeated after three weeks. And before you knock their schedule, the Ravens, Giants, and Raiders are .500 in their non-Broncos games. And yet Peyton Manning has led the Broncos to a 3-0 record, not to mention a 16-3 regular season record since last year with a head coach who was 10-22 in his last two seasons before he had Peyton Manning.

This is just another chapter in the legend of the greatness that is Peyton Manning. Enjoy it while you can because when you're telling your grandkids about the greatest QB ever to play the game, you'll want to get the details right.

That was fun.

This was funny you mean, you leave off all the facts that hurt your argument.

Eric Decker and DT whowas a first round pick, looked very good the year before Manning got there, the problem was Tebow was throwing the rock kind of in their direction. I bet you would say Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison would have been nothing without Manning either.

The Bronco's went 8 - 8 the year before and their season ended where? The AFC divisional game, where did the Peyton Manning led Bronco's season end?

Champ Bailey is a hall of fame player, that is 35 and not in his prime anymore.

Lastly we might call him the greatest ever to play the game, in the regular season. Too bad there is this thing called the playoffs and he isn't even a top 10 quarterback in the playoffs

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think my post went completely over your head.

FYI, I was not being serious. I was merely demonstrating how easy it is to twist the facts to fit a certain narrative, like certain individuals love to do with certain players.

 

[Devine Intervention]

It seems to me everyone loves making excuses for Tom Brady. Just watch the games. Brady is off target. He doesn't set his feet, he throws into the dirt a lot. Actually, if Brady isn't getting a deep clean drop with plenty of time he looks lost.

Talk all you want about WRs and talent, you can have all 1st round draft picks as you want (ie Detroit or Arizona) but if you don't have a line giving your QB time then you cant get the ball to those wrs. Look at guys who buy time or have good lines, they can get any scrub wr open.

Im willing to bet that in the past ten years you haven't seen a stronger core of offensive lineman that Brady has had. Watching my share of games, Ive never seen a QB that sits to comfortable and just gets to take his time picking his throws. The difference is this year he isn't getting that time and hes looking like an average QB.

Ill credit Brady for moving well in the pocket but to ignore the quality of his offensive line that he has been sitting behind and the scheme that he has been is silly. Too much credit is given to Brady for the masterminds of others.

As far as Manning, like a previous poster said, he is losing his offensive line, playing with no ones in front of him and he is leading that group to what might be the best offense weve seen in along time. His audibles and reads, protection shifts, etc are beyond any QB ever.

That being said, you put those NE WRs on Den and Manning makes them into heros.

 

[msudaisy26]

I think my post went completely over your head.

FYI, I was not being serious. I was merely demonstrating how easy it is to twist the facts to fit a certain narrative, like certain individuals love to do with certain players.

I apologize then, sometimes it is easy to miss the sarcasm when reading a post on the boards

 

[msudaisy26]

It seems to me everyone loves making excuses for Tom Brady. Just watch the games. Brady is off target. He doesn't set his feet, he throws into the dirt a lot. Actually, if Brady isn't getting a deep clean drop with plenty of time he looks lost.

Talk all you want about WRs and talent, you can have all 1st round draft picks as you want (ie Detroit or Arizona) but if you don't have a line giving your QB time then you cant get the ball to those wrs. Look at guys who buy time or have good lines, they can get any scrub wr open.

Im willing to bet that in the past ten years you haven't seen a stronger core of offensive lineman that Brady has had. Watching my share of games, Ive never seen a QB that sits to comfortable and just gets to take his time picking his throws. The difference is this year he isn't getting that time and hes looking like an average QB.

Ill credit Brady for moving well in the pocket but to ignore the quality of his offensive line that he has been sitting behind and the scheme that he has been is silly. Too much credit is given to Brady for the masterminds of others.

As far as Manning, like a previous poster said, he is losing his offensive line, playing with no ones in front of him and he is leading that group to what might be the best offense weve seen in along time. His audibles and reads, protection shifts, etc are beyond any QB ever.

That being said, you put those NE WRs on Den and Manning makes them into heros.

How do you know? When has Manning not had elite weapons to throw to in his career?

 

[Devine Intervention]

And trying to compare what Manning did in next to Tebow is silly.

A QB WHO HASNT STARTED SINCE HIGH SCHOOL came into that NE offense, went 10-5 I believe and put up stats comparable to an average Brady season. So how do you justify Brady's brilliance when a nobody came in and had success in that system???

 

[Devine Intervention]

NE tried drafting 1st round talent, it didn't pan out. In NE its a scheme fit, not a talent fit. Drafted in the top 2 rounds, guys like Chad Jackson, bethel Johnson, Maroney, Branch, Watson, Gronk, Vareen, Dobson. Not to mention how many of his O line was 1st round talent. Um, Randy Moss, Wes Welker. Its not like the guy hasn't had talent around him.

 

[msudaisy26]

Part of being a quarterback too is playing to the team strengths. Brady has played game manager when he had to, because he average or worse receivers, an elite defense. He has played gun slinger too, when he had a ton of weapons, he has played precision passer too when he had weapons but no true deep threat, and he has won doing all this.

Peyton Manning has only ever played one way and it is with a ton of weapons on offense, and he has been unable to adjust for the playoffs except one year.

Peyton Manning is the Atlanta Braves of the 90's and early 00's he is great but he has vastly underachieved when it matters most.

 

[msudaisy26]

And trying to compare what Manning did in next to Tebow is silly.

A QB WHO HASNT STARTED SINCE HIGH SCHOOL came into that NE offense, went 10-5 I believe and put up stats comparable to an average Brady season. So how do you justify Brady's brilliance when a nobody came in and had success in that system???

Really I guess Luck isn't doing anything in Indy

Compare with Brady's average year lol, try comparing it with Brady's years with Moss and Welker. You are comparing apples and oranges to compare to Brady's years with David Givens, David Patton and the beast Antwan Smith

 

[msudaisy26]

NE tried drafting 1st round talent, it didn't pan out. In NE its a scheme fit, not a talent fit. Drafted in the top 2 rounds, guys like Chad Jackson, bethel Johnson, Maroney, Branch, Watson, Gronk, Vareen, Dobson. Not to mention how many of his O line was 1st round talent. Um, Randy Moss, Wes Welker. Its not like the guy hasn't had talent around him.

Peyton has had a borderline hall of fame receiver every year of his career. Brady didn't have one until his 7th year in the league

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

And trying to compare what Manning did in next to Tebow is silly.

A QB WHO HASNT STARTED SINCE HIGH SCHOOL came into that NE offense, went 10-5 I believe and put up stats comparable to an average Brady season. So how do you justify Brady's brilliance when a nobody came in and had success in that system???

I thought belichick was an average coach who owed everything to brady?

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think my post went completely over your head.

FYI, I was not being serious. I was merely demonstrating how easy it is to twist the facts to fit a certain narrative, like certain individuals love to do with certain players.

I apologize then, sometimes it is easy to miss the sarcasm when reading a post on the boards

It's all good.

How do you know? When has Manning not had elite weapons to throw to in his career?

The argument could be made that Manning made those players better than they would have been without him. Marvin Harrison wasn't exactly setting the league on fire before Manning came to Indy. SInce hitting his prime, Reggie Wayne didn't exactly light it up the one year he didn't have a Peyton or a Luck throwing to him. Manning hasn't had a top RB in his backfield since the pre-injury days of Edgerrin James. As has been said, Decker and Demaryius Thomas hadn't done much before Peyton came to Denver (although both showed flashes in '11).

In fact, both Brady and Manning have been excellent at making players around them better. Brady not so much this year thus far, although he is throwing to mostly rookies. But it is interesting to note that Brady is struggling mightily throwing to all new receivers so far this year, but when Peyton had to do the same thing last year - throwing to all new receivers - he lit it up pretty much from the start (with the first quarter against Atlanta being the one major hiccup).

 

[Tau837]

Bradys accomplishments have always been downplayed.

bostonfred has made a lot of ridiculous statements in the Shark Pool, but this is on a whole new level.

He has taken this schtick to an entirely new level this year.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I think my post went completely over your head.

FYI, I was not being serious. I was merely demonstrating how easy it is to twist the facts to fit a certain narrative, like certain individuals love to do with certain players.

I apologize then, sometimes it is easy to miss the sarcasm when reading a post on the boards

It's all good.

How do you know? When has Manning not had elite weapons to throw to in his career?

The argument could be made that Manning made those players better than they would have been without him. Marvin Harrison wasn't exactly setting the league on fire before Manning came to Indy. SInce hitting his prime, Reggie Wayne didn't exactly light it up the one year he didn't have a Peyton or a Luck throwing to him. Manning hasn't had a top RB in his backfield since the pre-injury days of Edgerrin James. As has been said, Decker and Demaryius Thomas hadn't done much before Peyton came to Denver (although both showed flashes in '11).

In fact, both Brady and Manning have been excellent at making players around them better. Brady not so much this year thus far, although he is throwing to mostly rookies. But it is interesting to note that Brady is struggling mightily throwing to all new receivers so far this year, but when Peyton had to do the same thing last year - throwing to all new receivers - he lit it up pretty much from the start (with the first quarter against Atlanta being the one major hiccup).

so, in summary, manning's biggest advocate in this discussion, ghost rider, considers demaryius thomas, marvin harrison, and reggie wayne comparable to reche caldwell.

I think that's a pretty solid look inside the head of the manning groupies.

 

[parrot]

And trying to compare what Manning did in next to Tebow is silly.

A QB WHO HASNT STARTED SINCE HIGH SCHOOL came into that NE offense, went 10-5 I believe and put up stats comparable to an average Brady season. So how do you justify Brady's brilliance when a nobody came in and had success in that system???

Losing five more games,

putting up 179 fewer points,

700 total fewer yards,

1200 fewer passing yards,

29 fewer TD passes,

All while playing a MUCH easier schedule.

In any other scenario people would recognize that as a SUBSTANTIAL downgrade at QB , but when it's the Patriots they try to make it sound like they are similar performances. It's laughable.