Tony Dungy on Tim Tebow (1 Viewer)

[cobalt_27]

I don't buy Tebow as a Wildcat QB. He's not fast/quick/agile enough to consistently have success in that formation in the NFL.

The Wildcat doesn't exist to get 80 yard game breaking runs. It exists to consistently get 6 or 7 yards. This misconception is why there was that dopey "the wildcat is dead" thread. It is remarkable to me that even people on this board fail to recognize the value of a 6 yard run.

Where do you get this out of his post? Before you start talking about people being ignorant, try to increase that reading comprehension just a touch.

 

[IDrinkyourMilkshake]

I don't buy Tebow as a Wildcat QB. He's not fast/quick/agile enough to consistently have success in that formation in the NFL.

The Wildcat doesn't exist to get 80 yard game breaking runs. It exists to consistently get 6 or 7 yards. This misconception is why there was that dopey "the wildcat is dead" thread. It is remarkable to me that even people on this board fail to recognize the value of a 6 yard run.

I never mentioned anything about "game breaking 80 yards". Tebow isn't fast/quick/agile enough to get 6 or 7 yard runs consistently off the Wildcat.

 

[Bojang0301]

I don't buy Tebow as a Wildcat QB. He's not fast/quick/agile enough to consistently have success in that formation in the NFL.

The Wildcat doesn't exist to get 80 yard game breaking runs. It exists to consistently get 6 or 7 yards. This misconception is why there was that dopey "the wildcat is dead" thread. It is remarkable to me that even people on this board fail to recognize the value of a 6 yard run.

I never mentioned anything about "game breaking 80 yards". Tebow isn't fast/quick/agile enough to get 6 or 7 yard runs consistently off the Wildcat.

Yes he is. That is something I won't argue with. He's got good vision, great acceleration and good agility.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I don't buy Tebow as a Wildcat QB. He's not fast/quick/agile enough to consistently have success in that formation in the NFL.

The Wildcat doesn't exist to get 80 yard game breaking runs. It exists to consistently get 6 or 7 yards. This misconception is why there was that dopey "the wildcat is dead" thread. It is remarkable to me that even people on this board fail to recognize the value of a 6 yard run.

I never mentioned anything about "game breaking 80 yards". Tebow isn't fast/quick/agile enough to get 6 or 7 yard runs consistently off the Wildcat.

Tebow is just as fast/agile as plenty of the "power" backs in the NFL.

 

[cobalt_27]

I don't buy Tebow as a Wildcat QB. He's not fast/quick/agile enough to consistently have success in that formation in the NFL.

The Wildcat doesn't exist to get 80 yard game breaking runs. It exists to consistently get 6 or 7 yards. This misconception is why there was that dopey "the wildcat is dead" thread. It is remarkable to me that even people on this board fail to recognize the value of a 6 yard run.

I never mentioned anything about "game breaking 80 yards". Tebow isn't fast/quick/agile enough to get 6 or 7 yard runs consistently off the Wildcat.

Tebow is just as fast/agile as plenty of the "power" backs in the NFL.

Whatever.

 

[kaa]

All I know is that its hard to find an NFL franchise that consistently wins without controlling the line of scrimmage. At least ONE of the OL and DL needs to be dominant to be a consistent winner. To expect a championship, both need to be strong.

 

[cobalt_27]

All I know is that its hard to find an NFL franchise that consistently wins without controlling the line of scrimmage. At least ONE of the OL and DL needs to be dominant to be a consistent winner. To expect a championship, both need to be strong.

And, so, regarding Tebow...?

 

[kaa]

All I know is that its hard to find an NFL franchise that consistently wins without controlling the line of scrimmage. At least ONE of the OL and DL needs to be dominant to be a consistent winner. To expect a championship, both need to be strong.

And, so, regarding Tebow...?

I'm referring to how Dungy is looking at Couch, Akili Smith, and McNabb and saying McNabb was "the winner" and therefore Tebow will be a success in the NFL because because Tebow is also "a winner". I refute that and point out that McNabb is only 1 of those 3 in the 99 class that went to a NFL program that could control the line of scrimmage. I'm not saying Akili Smith would win if he went to the Eagles. Its quite possible Couch would have, but his body was so beat up from playing behind the Browns' line he couldn't make the throws anymore. I'm saying that I'm highly skeptical of a simple correlation between winning in high school and college and winning at the pro level.

 

[kaa]

I do think it applies to baseball's minor league system. Sometimes a baseball franchise gets a group of young talent at the same time and it dominates at the AA level, then it dominates in AAA, and it gets promoted to the big club and eventually dominates there. An example is the 2002 AA Canton-Akron Indians. They had Coco Crisp, Joddy Gerut, Milton Bradley and Victor Martinez. They went 93-48 and me and my friends we're like "uh-oh, look out!"

In 2009 the Indians AA squad went 89-53 with players like Lonnie Chisenhall, Carlos Santana, and Nick Weglarz. Those are probably going to be the heart of the batting order and household names in a few years. The Indians traded two Cy Young winners but their farm system is rather loaded right now. And in this case, its reasonable to expect winning in Cleveland again in 2-3 years.

 

[Two Deep]

I don't buy Tebow as a Wildcat QB. He's not fast/quick/agile enough to consistently have success in that formation in the NFL.

The Wildcat doesn't exist to get 80 yard game breaking runs. It exists to consistently get 6 or 7 yards. This misconception is why there was that dopey "the wildcat is dead" thread. It is remarkable to me that even people on this board fail to recognize the value of a 6 yard run.

I never mentioned anything about "game breaking 80 yards". Tebow isn't fast/quick/agile enough to get 6 or 7 yard runs consistently off the Wildcat.

Tebow is just as fast/agile as plenty of the "power" backs in the NFL.

Can you name them please?

 

[cobalt_27]

I do think it applies to baseball's minor league system. Sometimes a baseball franchise gets a group of young talent at the same time and it dominates at the AA level, then it dominates in AAA, and it gets promoted to the big club and eventually dominates there. An example is the 2002 AA Canton-Akron Indians. They had Coco Crisp, Joddy Gerut, Milton Bradley and Victor Martinez. They went 93-48 and me and my friends we're like "uh-oh, look out!"In 2009 the Indians AA squad went 89-53 with players like Lonnie Chisenhall, Carlos Santana, and Nick Weglarz. Those are probably going to be the heart of the batting order and household names in a few years. The Indians traded two Cy Young winners but their farm system is rather loaded right now. And in this case, its reasonable to expect winning in Cleveland again in 2-3 years.

And, so, regarding Tebow...again?

 

[evilempire]

Tebow will be a low first round/high second round pick (the combine will NOT be his friend).He will be a thitd-string quarterback for a year or two and be out of football in three years.This is not to say I dislike tebow. Seems like a great guy and is probably one of college football's top ten all-time players. But I've seen guys like him come and go every year. These guys don't make good NFL quarterbacks.

You've seen top-10 all time college football players come and go every year? Top-10 all time college football players don't make good NFL QBs? Or do you mean you've seen people like Tim, only nowhere NEAR as talented or successful, who have failed at the NFL level?I've seen guys like Peyton Manning, only nowhere near as talented, fail in the NFL too.

When your players make it to the NFL, get drafted high, and become NFL superstars, it helps you recruit better players, which in turn helps you win college games. It is in a coach's best interests for his players to become successful NFL players.

This is definitely true. Urban Meyer has a vested interest in Percy Harvin's pro success, because opposing coaches are going into the living rooms of WR recruits and saying "don't go to Florida, that offense is a gimmick. The Percy Position works in college, but it'll never work in the pros. Everyone knows Florida WRs are busts. Come here and we'll get you to the NFL". If Percy succeeds, that puts an end to any such speculation. Likewise, if Tebow succeeds in the NFL, the next time a Terrell Pryor is deciding where to go to college, he won't go to an Ohio State over Michigan in an effort to improve his draft stock- he'll come play to his strengths, compete for championships, and still make the pros anyway.95+% of Recruits only care about 2 things- winning, and going pro (and getting playing time, but that's mostly a result of their desire to go pro).

I agree with that last part, but what I was getting it is Meyer shouldn't change his offense to help Tebow get to the NFL if it's going to cost his team victories. If Tebow can manage the offense Meyer runs AND it gets him into the NFL, great ... but if given a choice between winning games or grooming someone for the league, the coach should always pick winning games. Should Tebow be successful I don't know that it would suddenly change the perception of Florida QBs ... all those guys who played for Spurrier, who was an offensive genius, didn't amount to much in the league ... Shane Matthews, Jesse Palmer, Danny Weurffel. So I don't necessarily know that Tebow making it in the NFL is suddenly going to mean that Florida will suddenly become a hot place to go for QBs wishing to make it to the NFL. Right now it's the hot place to go because it wins championships.A young man who really wants to make the league playing QB should probably go to USC ... there are currently three ex-Trojans starting, and six overall from the Pac-10.

 

[SSOG]

I agree with that last part, but what I was getting it is Meyer shouldn't change his offense to help Tebow get to the NFL if it's going to cost his team victories. If Tebow can manage the offense Meyer runs AND it gets him into the NFL, great ... but if given a choice between winning games or grooming someone for the league, the coach should always pick winning games. Should Tebow be successful I don't know that it would suddenly change the perception of Florida QBs ... all those guys who played for Spurrier, who was an offensive genius, didn't amount to much in the league ... Shane Matthews, Jesse Palmer, Danny Weurffel. So I don't necessarily know that Tebow making it in the NFL is suddenly going to mean that Florida will suddenly become a hot place to go for QBs wishing to make it to the NFL. Right now it's the hot place to go because it wins championships.A young man who really wants to make the league playing QB should probably go to USC ... there are currently three ex-Trojans starting, and six overall from the Pac-10.

I wasn't saying that Meyer should tweak his offense to show pro scouts a different side of Tim Tebow. I think, at the end of the day, the pro scouts will rate him how they rate him regardless of the scheme he played in. Pro scouts have no problem looking at a 4-3 DE like Terrell Suggs and projecting him as a 3-4 OLB despite the fact that he's never played the position. I don't think playing in a "gimmick" offense (and the word "gimmick" is in quotes because this same "gimmick" powered the 2007 New England Patriots into the NFL record books) will be held against Tebow come draft time. There'll be much hemming and hawing and wringing of hands, but ultimately people will draft him where they draft him based on what they think he'll become, not what he's already been.All I was saying is that Meyer most certainly does have a vested interest in Tim Tebow becoming a high draft pick. If Tebow isn't a first day pick, then Meyer will be hard-pressed to ever get another elite QB recruit.

 

[gianmarco]

I agree with that last part, but what I was getting it is Meyer shouldn't change his offense to help Tebow get to the NFL if it's going to cost his team victories. If Tebow can manage the offense Meyer runs AND it gets him into the NFL, great ... but if given a choice between winning games or grooming someone for the league, the coach should always pick winning games. Should Tebow be successful I don't know that it would suddenly change the perception of Florida QBs ... all those guys who played for Spurrier, who was an offensive genius, didn't amount to much in the league ... Shane Matthews, Jesse Palmer, Danny Weurffel. So I don't necessarily know that Tebow making it in the NFL is suddenly going to mean that Florida will suddenly become a hot place to go for QBs wishing to make it to the NFL. Right now it's the hot place to go because it wins championships.A young man who really wants to make the league playing QB should probably go to USC ... there are currently three ex-Trojans starting, and six overall from the Pac-10.

I wasn't saying that Meyer should tweak his offense to show pro scouts a different side of Tim Tebow. I think, at the end of the day, the pro scouts will rate him how they rate him regardless of the scheme he played in. Pro scouts have no problem looking at a 4-3 DE like Terrell Suggs and projecting him as a 3-4 OLB despite the fact that he's never played the position. I don't think playing in a "gimmick" offense (and the word "gimmick" is in quotes because this same "gimmick" powered the 2007 New England Patriots into the NFL record books) will be held against Tebow come draft time. There'll be much hemming and hawing and wringing of hands, but ultimately people will draft him where they draft him based on what they think he'll become, not what he's already been.All I was saying is that Meyer most certainly does have a vested interest in Tim Tebow becoming a high draft pick. If Tebow isn't a first day pick, then Meyer will be hard-pressed to ever get another elite QB recruit.

 

[Gatorman]

I am as big a tebow homer as they come, and I think the kid has al the things you need to be a good QB. Strong arm, leadership in the huddle, the ability to make positive yards on broken plays, and the ability to be coached.

Will he need some "seasoning" and coaching to change his throwing angle and to lineup under center and read a defense: Yes. Could he be a winning QB in the league from Day one? Perhaps, but the team would need to go to some form of wildcat "spread" type offense to give tebow a chance.

I see him going to a team with a coach/coordinator that will utilize his skill set in a limited fashion while coaching him up to be a QB. In the end everyone knows on 3rd and 3 that tebow is likely to run the ball. How many times in his career when it is third and short has he been stopped? 5 times in 4 years?

 

[jurb26]

All I was saying is that Meyer most certainly does have a vested interest in Tim Tebow becoming a high draft pick. If Tebow isn't a first day pick, then Meyer will be hard-pressed to ever get another elite QB recruit.

Huh? This is in any way true? He may be hard pressed to get the pocket passing elite QB recruit, but he will have virtually every "athlete" QB recruit drooling to come to Fla. This is already the case now though. Pocket guys know damn well they don't fit that offense and they end up at places like USC where they will have an offense that enhances their abilities. None of this depends on Tebow. It depends on the coaching staffs and offensive schemes run at the schools.

 

[jurb26]

I don't buy Tebow as a Wildcat QB. He's not fast/quick/agile enough to consistently have success in that formation in the NFL.

The Wildcat doesn't exist to get 80 yard game breaking runs. It exists to consistently get 6 or 7 yards. This misconception is why there was that dopey "the wildcat is dead" thread. It is remarkable to me that even people on this board fail to recognize the value of a 6 yard run.

I never mentioned anything about "game breaking 80 yards". Tebow isn't fast/quick/agile enough to get 6 or 7 yard runs consistently off the Wildcat.

Yes he is. That is something I won't argue with. He's got good vision, great acceleration and good agility.

No, Tebow isn't fast/quick/agile enough to play RB in the NFL. He has decent vision with great power but he never makes guys miss on his own (even at the college level now) and I've never seen him running away from anyone other than Dlinemen.

 

[CowboyFan]

Physical strength and having a strong arm (as the phrase is used when talking about quarterbacks) are two completely different things. You think Peyton Manning, Jay Cutler and Aaron Rodgers can throw up huge numbers in the weight room?

I don't think Jay Cutler could find the weight room I was just refuting the accusation that he can't throw downfield.

Actually, Tebow's physique is more comparable to Big Ben. Does he have a strong arm?

If you don't even have a concept of what makes for a good pass, then you have no arguement. The ability to bench press a Yugo has zero bearing on having an NFL "arm". Arm strength is probably the least important part of throwing mechanics. Tiger Woods can smash a golf ball but looks like a bean pole. Physics behind a football pass and a golf swing are similar, core strength is key to power. Not saying that Tebow doesn't have good core strength, but he hasn't figured out how to use it yet, I wouldn't bet a 1st round NFL pick that he will suddenly figure it out.

 

[CravenM]

There was a funny story during the FL/UGA game yesterday about a golf round in May between Phil Mickelson and Tebow (who shot a 82). After the round, Mickelson wanted to see if he could throw the ball as far as Tebow.

Phil threw it 53 yards, Tebow threw it 57 yards (from his knees)

 

[Frank Costanza's Lawyer]

I am as big a tebow homer as they come, and I think the kid has al the things you need to be a good QB. Strong arm, leadership in the huddle, the ability to make positive yards on broken plays, and the ability to be coached.

Will he need some "seasoning" and coaching to change his throwing angle and to lineup under center and read a defense: Yes. Could he be a winning QB in the league from Day one? Perhaps, but the team would need to go to some form of wildcat "spread" type offense to give tebow a chance.

I see him going to a team with a coach/coordinator that will utilize his skill set in a limited fashion while coaching him up to be a QB. In the end everyone knows on 3rd and 3 that tebow is likely to run the ball. How many times in his career when it is third and short has he been stopped? 5 times in 4 years?

An ability to read a defense and to take snaps from under center arent necessary for a QB's success in the NFL?

 

[Steelfan7]

There was a funny story during the FL/UGA game yesterday about a golf round in May between Phil Mickelson and Tebow (who shot a 82). After the round, Mickelson wanted to see if he could throw the ball as far as Tebow.Phil threw it 53 yards, Tebow threw it 57 yards (from his knees)

Kyle Boller >>>>>>>>>>>Tebow.

 

[IDrinkyourMilkshake]

I don't buy Tebow as a Wildcat QB. He's not fast/quick/agile enough to consistently have success in that formation in the NFL.

The Wildcat doesn't exist to get 80 yard game breaking runs. It exists to consistently get 6 or 7 yards. This misconception is why there was that dopey "the wildcat is dead" thread. It is remarkable to me that even people on this board fail to recognize the value of a 6 yard run.

I never mentioned anything about "game breaking 80 yards". Tebow isn't fast/quick/agile enough to get 6 or 7 yard runs consistently off the Wildcat.

Tebow is just as fast/agile as plenty of the "power" backs in the NFL.

Can you name them please?

And more importantly, which "power" backs have had success running the wildcat in the NFL? Tebow runs a lot and plays QB but its lazy to assume that he'll just become some wildcat powerhouse (like Ronnie Brown) in the NFL. Most teams haven't had success running it. Tebow is a unique talent that has the potential to be a difference maker at the next level. It'll be interesting to see how he'll be used by the team that drafts him. Do you try to form him into a traditional QB? Or do you design an offense around his strengths? Best case scenario: He goes to a team like the Jaguars and plays some TE/FB/QB as he improves his throwing mechanics.

 

[SSOG]

All I was saying is that Meyer most certainly does have a vested interest in Tim Tebow becoming a high draft pick. If Tebow isn't a first day pick, then Meyer will be hard-pressed to ever get another elite QB recruit.

Huh? This is in any way true? He may be hard pressed to get the pocket passing elite QB recruit, but he will have virtually every "athlete" QB recruit drooling to come to Fla. This is already the case now though. Pocket guys know damn well they don't fit that offense and they end up at places like USC where they will have an offense that enhances their abilities. None of this depends on Tebow. It depends on the coaching staffs and offensive schemes run at the schools.

Florida's backup QB, John Brantley, is probably the top pocket passer in the SEC right now, so there goes that theory. Also, Terrell Pryor disproves your "athletic QBs want to play in a favorable offensive scheme" thing- Michigan was the perfect offense for him, but he went to Ohio State instead because he thought it gave him a better chance of making it to the pros.If Tim Tebow, one of the five greatest college players of all time, can't even get drafted in the first 3 rounds, then every athletic QB in the world is going to look at Florida and wonder what chance they could possibly have at getting drafted from that offense. It's absolutely real. By the same token, if Percy Harvin hadn't gotten drafted high, Florida would have had a tough time convincing future Percy-like players to come there.

 

[jurb26]

All I was saying is that Meyer most certainly does have a vested interest in Tim Tebow becoming a high draft pick. If Tebow isn't a first day pick, then Meyer will be hard-pressed to ever get another elite QB recruit.

Huh? This is in any way true? He may be hard pressed to get the pocket passing elite QB recruit, but he will have virtually every "athlete" QB recruit drooling to come to Fla. This is already the case now though. Pocket guys know damn well they don't fit that offense and they end up at places like USC where they will have an offense that enhances their abilities. None of this depends on Tebow. It depends on the coaching staffs and offensive schemes run at the schools.

Florida's backup QB, John Brantley, is probably the top pocket passer in the SEC right now, so there goes that theory. Also, Terrell Pryor disproves your "athletic QBs want to play in a favorable offensive scheme" thing- Michigan was the perfect offense for him, but he went to Ohio State instead because he thought it gave him a better chance of making it to the pros.If Tim Tebow, one of the five greatest college players of all time, can't even get drafted in the first 3 rounds, then every athletic QB in the world is going to look at Florida and wonder what chance they could possibly have at getting drafted from that offense. It's absolutely real. By the same token, if Percy Harvin hadn't gotten drafted high, Florida would have had a tough time convincing future Percy-like players to come there.

You lost me here. Come on, you're better than that SSOG. Pryor went to OSU because he fell in love with the campus and said it felt like "home" the moment he walk onto it. The only reason he ever entertained Michigan was because of the offensive scheme.Sure, getting drafted into the NFL is a portion of what recruits consider when picking a school but it means more to some and less to others. There are several factors that impact those decisions. For you to try and state that just because Tebow doesn't get drafted high that no more elite QB prospects will seriously look at Fla is totally ludicrous. The school has just about everything going for it right now. You can pick any one of 100 other reasons why those kids would still want to go to school there.