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The whistle you hear as Okung is being flipped isn't the first whistle blowing the play dead. And yes, it was a deliberate turn in order to flip Okung over his hip...or are you blind to think it was an accident that a 350 lbs man went flying like that?
You said Okung brought it on himself. Unreasonable reactions aren't things you can predict and therefore try and not bring them on yourself.
That doesn't matter now.
Oh, good. Can I get your newsletter?
Awesome.
Yep, this is exactly what happened. I had a good view of the flip side of the GIF posted, from my seats. I also have a Fan Vision device that allows me to view each play from different camera angles, inside the stadium. Cole deliberately grabbed Okungs arm, and sent him flying.
There is the first whistle showing the play is dead.There is another set of whistles and then flip.They are all very close together.Blind? He was already turned for a while as Okung held on...he then side stepped and did the hip toss.He did not turn his back to him to do this.
Yes...Okung brought on the action by continuing to hold him after he past and after the first whistle.This does not excuse Cole as I have stated.
The picture you linked shows Okung holding him...its not a gif that makes it look like it...its the fact that Okung was holding him.Your own picture shows Cole is not holding Okung's arm.
The outcome is irrelevant to the suspension.Suh could have just as easily broken the lineman's arm.The injury or lack thereof should not affect the length of any suspension.I would say the stomp was more dangerous than the hip toss was.
I have no way of capturing the video, but go watch, in full screen HD, when the two players get to the 25. Watch it many times. It's clear that Okung is letting up at the end of the play. It is also very clear that Cole hooks Okungs arm as the whistle blows. Watch the play from time Okung gets control of Cole near the line of scrimge. His hands are inside the pads and he owns Cole. As Cole is moved 5 yards backwards and away from the play Cole's torso twists but Okung's hands don't shift or move to a different part of the body. You want to call it a hold? Fine. We've both seen much more egregious holds go without penalty. I'm not sure how you don't see Cole grab Okungs arm. The still frame I linked to is right in the middle of it. Are you suggesting Cole didn't hook Okungs arm?
That doesn't make sense. Okung continued to do something completely benign yet he gets blamed for being unreasonably flipped. That's at best enabling and sounds much more like excusing. I guess it'd be ok for anyone who thinks they're being held to body slam or flip the other guy and then say "Hey, he brought this injury on himself for grabbing my jersey".
So I'm saying there's a chance
The NFL doesn't.
I disagree the stomp was really all that dangerous, but that doesn't excuse the action. It was dirty on Suh's part without doubt.However, if I point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, my sentence is hugely dependent on the outcome. If they die I get a more serious charge than if they live. Probably why McClain is going to play this weekend instead of being locked up, right?I'm not so sure why the fact that Okung was seriously injured shouldn't be considered in determining any potential discipline.In fact, the more I consider it, I absolutely think the outcome should affect the discipline.Sadly, I agree with the poster that pointed out the lack of TV coverage Cole's episode is getting and the PR related lip service the league gives player safety will likely preclude a suspension for Cole.
exactly. it's clear Okung is not the one in control, his feet are shuffling along like he's being pulled - he's not driving his legs like he's pushing Cole.
I'm not seeing a lot that's definitive either way. Okung was pretty much riding Cole's back and had Cole's right arm wrapped up and just about chicken-winged while Cole was trying to pull away and pursue the play. Okung was actually behind Cole's right hip. The first whistle blows and Cole starts to dip to his left. Okung keeps going and flips over Cole's right hip. It does look like it could be a hip toss. But it could also be nothing more than Okung being off-balance (by leaning onto Cole) and then Cole just twisting away to the left, in which case Okung's momentum carries him on through.
Okung kept pushing AFTER THE WHISTLE and yet Cole is the thug here??
Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
That pick doesn't show anything. You can't tell from that angle whether Okung has Cole's arm pinned against Okung's body or Cole has slipped his arm under Okung's. It's a static picture.Look at what happens just prior to that. Okung is driving Cole backwards and then Cole twists and turns his back on Okung to pursue the play. Now at that point, Cole should be able to disengage from Okung...unless Okung has a hold of Cole.
Cole is completly in the wrong but you have to understand that Okung was riding his back.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
Okung didn't release at the whistle, as he is required to do. If you don't want to get flipped, then don't get chippy after the whistle.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
You seem to have a strange definition of riding.Cole is completly in the wrong but you have to understand that Okung was riding his back.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
You seem to have a strange definition of "getting chippy". I guess it's justified to start judo flipping people all over the field in every game if they don't throw their hands off you exactly as the whistle blows.Okung didn't release at the whistle, as he is required to do. If you don't want to get flipped, then don't get chippy after the whistle.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
It's called leverage. It's what judo flips are all about. You can argue whether or not it's holding on Okung or not after the whistle, though I'll disagree with you, but to try and say that it wasn't what it clearly was, a deliberate judo flip by Cole, is just plain asinine, wrong, stupid, ignorant and silly and renders any point you want to try and make completely useless because you clearly can't see.
I didn't say it was justified. I'm just saying that if you do something illegal to someone, don't be surprised if that person does something illegal back.You seem to have a strange definition of "getting chippy". I guess it's justified to start judo flipping people all over the field in every game if they don't throw their hands off you exactly as the whistle blows.Okung didn't release at the whistle, as he is required to do. If you don't want to get flipped, then don't get chippy after the whistle.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
Don't give an extra harmless shrug in case you get flipped. Gotcha. That's called enabling and blaming the victim and it's ridiculous. If Cole just pushed him and he tripped and hurt himself, that'd be one thing and maybe that admonition would be appropriate. But not for something like this. Cole was frustrated over his black hole of a season and getting destroyed by Okung all night long and he did something way outside the rules of the game. Your little saying doesn't apply to this situation, not one little tiny bit.I didn't say it was justified. I'm just saying that if you do something illegal to someone, don't be surprised if that person does something illegal back.You seem to have a strange definition of "getting chippy". I guess it's justified to start judo flipping people all over the field in every game if they don't throw their hands off you exactly as the whistle blows.Okung didn't release at the whistle, as he is required to do. If you don't want to get flipped, then don't get chippy after the whistle.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
I've watched it a few more times and I do think Cole did it on purpose. If you watch him, he does shift his weight just before the toss and puts his shoulder into the heave. It looks like he plants his feet and sets his hips for the toss.But the rest of it is spot on. Okung was clearly riding Cole and had a hold of his arm. He did the whole play. I think Cole was tired of the hold and his frustration got him.
You only call it harmless because Cole wasn't injured by Okung's post-whistle shoving. Just like Cole's move would have been called "harmless" if Okung hadn't been injured. Hell, I bet Cole has done that move 20 times this season and nobody started a thread about it. But one fragile chinadoll gets injured and suddenly it's a dangerous move? Geez. You wouldn't even be posting in this thread if Okung hadn't been injured.Don't give an extra harmless shrug in case you get flipped. Gotcha.I didn't say it was justified. I'm just saying that if you do something illegal to someone, don't be surprised if that person does something illegal back.You seem to have a strange definition of "getting chippy". I guess it's justified to start judo flipping people all over the field in every game if they don't throw their hands off you exactly as the whistle blows.Okung didn't release at the whistle, as he is required to do. If you don't want to get flipped, then don't get chippy after the whistle.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
Okung had his hands inside until Cole spun around. That wasn't a hold. Yes, Okung's arm was on the front side of Cole, where Cole's spin made it be. Still not a hold. They're both moving in the same direction, towards the other side of the field where the runner was. Cole grabs the arm, plants his feet and flips him hard around using his hip as a leverage point. That part shouldn't even need to be debated. It's as clear as the fact that the Eagles got their asses whupped. Okung wasn't riding him, he wasn't going away from him and he wasn't really being dragged because they were both basically jogging towards the pile, since the play was clearly over and whistles had blown. Okung is not "blocking" him anymore, they're just two entangled guys at the end of a play. I guess it's Okung's fault too that he owned Cole all game long. If he hadn't done that then Cole wouldn't be as frustrated. So Okung really brought this on himself. You guys are crazy and/or blind (either homer blind or Mr Magoo blind).I've watched it a few more times and I do think Cole did it on purpose. If you watch him, he does shift his weight just before the toss and puts his shoulder into the heave. It looks like he plants his feet and sets his hips for the toss.But the rest of it is spot on. Okung was clearly riding Cole and had a hold of his arm. He did the whole play. I think Cole was tired of the hold and his frustration got him.
There is no way for Cole to pull that off unless Okung has his right arm over Cole's right arm. And there is no way for Cole to do that when he's moving forward unless Okung is leaning onto him. Try to hip toss someone you are walking away from. You've got to get the other guy unbalanced to do that. He gets that way by you pulling him and then stepping backwards into his legs or, as in this case, by slowing down and letting the other guy's own forward momentum do the job for you.
If Cole was pulling on Okung, he'd have been dragging him, and Okung's weight would have been on hi heels, not his toes.
I only called it harmless because it was harmless? That doesn't even make sense. Yes, little shoves are harmless and happen with nearly every block. I've yet to see any hip-flips in NFL play that were harmless and/or part of the normal activities of a game.WTH does the last sentence mean? There wouldn't be a thread if Okung hadn't gotten hurt so what's your point? And no, Cole hasn't done that move all season long, it's not a part of football.You only call it harmless because Cole wasn't injured by Okung's post-whistle shoving. Just like Cole's move would have been called "harmless" if Okung hadn't been injured. Hell, I bet Cole has done that move 20 times this season and nobody started a thread about it. But one fragile chinadoll gets injured and suddenly it's a dangerous move? Geez. You wouldn't even be posting in this thread if Okung hadn't been injured.Don't give an extra harmless shrug in case you get flipped. Gotcha.I didn't say it was justified. I'm just saying that if you do something illegal to someone, don't be surprised if that person does something illegal back.You seem to have a strange definition of "getting chippy". I guess it's justified to start judo flipping people all over the field in every game if they don't throw their hands off you exactly as the whistle blows.Okung didn't release at the whistle, as he is required to do. If you don't want to get flipped, then don't get chippy after the whistle.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
I bet you Cole has done that zero times in his career on the football field. If he had done it previously I guarantee that the opposing HC submitted film to the league to review for discipline purposes. That is simply not a part of the sport.The guy full on hip tossed Okung and at the very least tore his pectoral muscle. Even if Okung was engaging in a little "post whistle shoving", which I see zero evidence of, that response is simply inexcusable.You only call it harmless because Cole wasn't injured by Okung's post-whistle shoving. Just like Cole's move would have been called "harmless" if Okung hadn't been injured. Hell, I bet Cole has done that move 20 times this season and nobody started a thread about it. But one fragile chinadoll gets injured and suddenly it's a dangerous move? Geez. You wouldn't even be posting in this thread if Okung hadn't been injured.Don't give an extra harmless shrug in case you get flipped. Gotcha.I didn't say it was justified. I'm just saying that if you do something illegal to someone, don't be surprised if that person does something illegal back.You seem to have a strange definition of "getting chippy". I guess it's justified to start judo flipping people all over the field in every game if they don't throw their hands off you exactly as the whistle blows.Okung didn't release at the whistle, as he is required to do. If you don't want to get flipped, then don't get chippy after the whistle.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
And you are entirely too biased to look at the play objectively.You seem to have a strange definition of riding.Cole is completly in the wrong but you have to understand that Okung was riding his back.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
You just proved my point. There wouldn't be a thread because the move itself isn't that outrageous. You're just upset because an injury-prone player just happened to get injured by it. It's a true sign of hypocrisy when you only get upset at the outcome of a dirty move, not the dirty move itself.
Objectively speaking, your definition of riding is strange. I am completely capable of being objective about it. You show me how he's "riding" Cole and then we can talk about who can't look at it unbiasedly.And you are entirely too biased to look at the play objectively.You seem to have a strange definition of riding.Cole is completly in the wrong but you have to understand that Okung was riding his back.Uh, wat? You seem to have missed something a lot.
Good thing I'm not doing that then. I have very rarely seen the hip flip in any game, since it isn't any type of football move, and the very few times you see something like that it's generally a penalty if the refs see it. It's not anywhere near common. If it is, you should have no trouble finding some examples of it. Of course I'm upset that a player was hurt by it, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a dirty move (which I've said many times so I don't really know why you think I'm not upset at the move itself).
Just my informed opinion but human ignorance is not limited to their financial status, color or profession. I'm an early 30's white dude who works in a restaurant in the suburbs and I'm surrounded by some of the most vacuous, moronic, imbecilic, classless, addicted, afflicted, self centered #######s you could ever imagine. It's not a specific segments problem- the human race as a whole leaves a lot to be desired.
Don't worry, you didn't.
Whew, at first I thought this was going to be a link to those 100 white rappers banging that guy's wife in the spa!
He flipped him, no doubt... did he intentionally try to end his season? That's a stretch.
