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Washington's Five Downs yesterday (1 Viewer)

njherdfan

njherdfan

Footballguy
I'm surprised this isn't a bigger story, but has this ever happened in an NFL game? For those who didn't see what happened, here's a quick recap:

1st and 10 from the TB 12: McNabb completed a 9 yard pass to Anthony Armstrong. He was clearly marked down at the 3, which put him a yard short of the first down marker, but on the field this was somehow marked as a first down. As a result, the Skins got to run four more plays, eventually scoring on 4th (5th?) down.

How can this happen in an NFL game? Who has jurisdiction over making sure this doesn't happen?

I took a screenshot you can see here and it seems that while Fox correctly marked the LOS as the 12 and the yard the Skins needed to get to as the 2, the Chain Gang somehow had the marker at the three yard line. Can you imagine if this happened in a playoff game?

 
njherdfan said:
I'm surprised this isn't a bigger story, but has this ever happened in an NFL game? For those who didn't see what happened, here's a quick recap:

1st and 10 from the TB 12: McNabb completed a 9 yard pass to Anthony Armstrong. He was clearly marked down at the 3, which put him a yard short of the first down marker, but on the field this was somehow marked as a first down. As a result, the Skins got to run four more plays, eventually scoring on 4th (5th?) down.

How can this happen in an NFL game? Who has jurisdiction over making sure this doesn't happen?

I took a screenshot you can see here and it seems that while Fox correctly marked the LOS as the 12 and the yard the Skins needed to get to as the 2, the Chain Gang somehow had the marker at the three yard line. Can you imagine if this happened in a playoff game?
Click to expand...
You think this is the first time a spot and resulting chain was less than perfect? It happens all the time. There's two opportunities for error here- the spot on the on the play that got them to the 12/13, and the spot of Armstrong's reception. To miss those two spots by a yard or so combined isn't really all that unusual. My guess is that it happens a lot, it just doesn't get noticed because it's not a late game, down a TD type situation, which resulted in both increased attention and less time for Fox and the announcers to notice that they'd awarded a first down.

 
Did make for an interesting situation, although I'm sure the skins would have played it differently if they knew they only had to make 1 yard for a 1st down instead of having to go for the end zone.

Football Gods evened it out in the end.

 
Just 1 more NFL officiating blunder to add to the countless others that we're seeing week after week after week!

Part of the new collective bargining by both sides should be a call for PROFESSIONAL Officials that know the rules and can make the correct calls to work the games ... not the blundering bunch of bad jokes that seem to show up from week to week.

:shrug:

 
road warrior said:
For those that don't believe in karma.... check out that extra point.
Click to expand...
How was this karma? The Skins thought a first down had been awarded- because that's what was indicated by the marker- and adjusted their play calling accordingly. If they had actually been less than a yard short, then they likely would have run the ball on second down, and maybe third down if necessary, in order to buy themselves four more shots at the end zone. They had two time outs and there was 49 seconds on the clock in that screenshot before the Armstrong catch ... plenty of time to run the ball to pick up the first.
 
i read a story about this last night, and the fox crew had already admitted that it was their error. i was watching on nfl.com and they also showed it as 1st down, so where's the controversy?

 
I've also read criticisms that the Fox announcers and broadcast had it completely wrong.

From WaPo:

Did the Redskins get a fifth down?

Explanation from head referee Pete Morelli:

"The first pass that was made, the initial ruling was first down to the 2-1/2 yard line, and the auxiliary box on the other side did not turn over. It was showing second down. The primary box on the head linesman side, which is the main down box, had first down. So we corrected the 2 because it hung up there for a while, and we corrected it to 1."

The confusion, then, wasn't with the players or coaches, it was with the viewing audience.

Here's the NFL play-by-play.

# 1-10-TB 12 :-)49) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass short right to 13-A.Armstrong to TB 2 for 10 yards (41-C.Lynch).

# Timeout #2 by WAS at 00:32.

# 1-2-TB 2 :-)32) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short right to 87-R.Williams.

# 2-2-TB 2 :-)28) 46-R.Torain right end ran ob at TB 6 for -4 yards (96-T.Crowder).

# 3-6-TB 6 :-)18) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short middle to 86-F.Davis.

# 4-6-TB 6 :-)13) 5-D.McNabb pass short middle to 89-S.Moss for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

 
I'm sure the spotting of the ball and setting of the chains is a lot less accurate during these 2-minute drills, with all the scrambling around.

If you notice, the marker on the far side line at the 3-yard line is not part of the "chain" gang.......he is solo and is not connected to another marker by a chain. The guys on the near sideline are the official chain gang and the guy on the far side is simply there for player reference when heading to that sideline.

Either he simply put his marker down one yard shorter than the chains, or the chain gang was somehow messed up (tangled chain).............probably from rushing, as evident by the marker still saying it was 3rd down.

 
NMYMND said:
I've also read criticisms that the Fox announcers and broadcast had it completely wrong.

From WaPo:

Did the Redskins get a fifth down?

Explanation from head referee Pete Morelli:

"The first pass that was made, the initial ruling was first down to the 2-1/2 yard line, and the auxiliary box on the other side did not turn over. It was showing second down. The primary box on the head linesman side, which is the main down box, had first down. So we corrected the 2 because it hung up there for a while, and we corrected it to 1."

The confusion, then, wasn't with the players or coaches, it was with the viewing audience.

Here's the NFL play-by-play.

# 1-10-TB 12 :-)49) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass short right to 13-A.Armstrong to TB 2 for 10 yards (41-C.Lynch).

# Timeout #2 by WAS at 00:32.

# 1-2-TB 2 :-)32) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short right to 87-R.Williams.

# 2-2-TB 2 :-)28) 46-R.Torain right end ran ob at TB 6 for -4 yards (96-T.Crowder).

# 3-6-TB 6 :-)18) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short middle to 86-F.Davis.

# 4-6-TB 6 :-)13) 5-D.McNabb pass short middle to 89-S.Moss for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
Click to expand...
This. The mere fact that no TB player or coach muttered any complaint about it when the Skins got to 4th down shows you that they had it right. Its not as if the TB defense ran off of the field celebrating when the pass to Fred Davis was incomplete on the penultimate down.
 
TobiasFunke said:
road warrior said:
For those that don't believe in karma.... check out that extra point.
Click to expand...
How was this karma? The Skins thought a first down had been awarded- because that's what was indicated by the marker- and adjusted their play calling accordingly. If they had actually been less than a yard short, then they likely would have run the ball on second down, and maybe third down if necessary, in order to buy themselves four more shots at the end zone. They had two time outs and there was 49 seconds on the clock in that screenshot before the Armstrong catch ... plenty of time to run the ball to pick up the first.
Click to expand...
It seems like manufactured hype / outrage. Even if it was an officiating mistake, which doesn't seem to be the case, its hard to see what if any advantage there was. I think (as a fan) I would prefer to have 2nd and 1 from the three as compared to 1st and goal from the three.
 
CletiusMaximus said:
TobiasFunke said:
road warrior said:
For those that don't believe in karma.... check out that extra point.
Click to expand...
How was this karma? The Skins thought a first down had been awarded- because that's what was indicated by the marker- and adjusted their play calling accordingly. If they had actually been less than a yard short, then they likely would have run the ball on second down, and maybe third down if necessary, in order to buy themselves four more shots at the end zone. They had two time outs and there was 49 seconds on the clock in that screenshot before the Armstrong catch ... plenty of time to run the ball to pick up the first.
Click to expand...
It seems like manufactured hype / outrage. Even if it was an officiating mistake, which doesn't seem to be the case, its hard to see what if any advantage there was. I think (as a fan) I would prefer to have 2nd and 1 from the three as compared to 1st and goal from the three.
Click to expand...
Exactly. You could argue that it actually cost them a free chance to punch it in on the ground- maybe if it's second and one from there they run an inside handoff designed to simply pick up the first and buy them four more chances, and get all the way to the end zone instead.
 
TobiasFunke said:
CletiusMaximus said:
TobiasFunke said:
road warrior said:
For those that don't believe in karma.... check out that extra point.
Click to expand...
How was this karma? The Skins thought a first down had been awarded- because that's what was indicated by the marker- and adjusted their play calling accordingly. If they had actually been less than a yard short, then they likely would have run the ball on second down, and maybe third down if necessary, in order to buy themselves four more shots at the end zone. They had two time outs and there was 49 seconds on the clock in that screenshot before the Armstrong catch ... plenty of time to run the ball to pick up the first.
Click to expand...
It seems like manufactured hype / outrage. Even if it was an officiating mistake, which doesn't seem to be the case, its hard to see what if any advantage there was. I think (as a fan) I would prefer to have 2nd and 1 from the three as compared to 1st and goal from the three.
Click to expand...
Exactly. You could argue that it actually cost them a free chance to punch it in on the ground- maybe if it's second and one from there they run an inside handoff designed to simply pick up the first and buy them four more chances, and get all the way to the end zone instead.
Click to expand...
But the thing that matter for us Fantasy Football guys is that Moss TD.
 
But... but.... but.....

IT"S THE REFS FAULT!!!!!

I mean no way is it the three paid hacks in the booth that made a mistake.

 
I was watching on foxsports.com as well

foxsports.com clearly indicated an incomplete pass on on 4th down

I glanced back at the computer moments later and saw the Redskins had a TD. I was like WTF?

edit: I just remembered that I was tracking on foxsports.com.. :lmao:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you look closely at the screen shot, the FOX guys drew the yellow (1st down) and blue (scrimmage) lines a full yard off from where the chain gangs actually were. Looks to me as if the refs got it right, FOX and the announcers got it wrong.

 
southeastjerome said:
NMYMND said:
I've also read criticisms that the Fox announcers and broadcast had it completely wrong.

From WaPo:

Did the Redskins get a fifth down?

Explanation from head referee Pete Morelli:

"The first pass that was made, the initial ruling was first down to the 2-1/2 yard line, and the auxiliary box on the other side did not turn over. It was showing second down. The primary box on the head linesman side, which is the main down box, had first down. So we corrected the 2 because it hung up there for a while, and we corrected it to 1."

The confusion, then, wasn't with the players or coaches, it was with the viewing audience.

Here's the NFL play-by-play.

# 1-10-TB 12 :-)49) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass short right to 13-A.Armstrong to TB 2 for 10 yards (41-C.Lynch).

# Timeout #2 by WAS at 00:32.

# 1-2-TB 2 :-)32) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short right to 87-R.Williams.

# 2-2-TB 2 :-)28) 46-R.Torain right end ran ob at TB 6 for -4 yards (96-T.Crowder).

# 3-6-TB 6 :-)18) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short middle to 86-F.Davis.

# 4-6-TB 6 :-)13) 5-D.McNabb pass short middle to 89-S.Moss for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
Click to expand...
This. The mere fact that no TB player or coach muttered any complaint about it when the Skins got to 4th down shows you that they had it right. Its not as if the TB defense ran off of the field celebrating when the pass to Fred Davis was incomplete on the
penultimate


Click to expand...
Click to expand...
It was correctly done by the officials so this is a non issue. But to the poster that pulled this word out of Websters, I give you a big :thumbup:

 
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