pinkham13
Footballguy
Read a book the Biden’s were captured by the communists a long time ago like Diane Feinstein was.
https://standupandspeakoutamerica.com/news-article/new-book-sheds-light-on-american-leaders-ties-to-china/
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Which of these issues was the worst crime committed by Trump after losing the election (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cosjobs
- Start date
https://standupandspeakoutamerica.com/news-article/new-book-sheds-light-on-american-leaders-ties-to-china/
Sabertooth
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
The bidens, like many in our political class. Mitch McConnell John Boehner included, have been purchased by Chinese money
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Yes, we've reached the stage of "he did it but it wasn't technically illegal," a common refrain from Trump and his supporters.
The goal is to keep pushing the boundaries, to keep stressing democracy at the points where it depends on universal agreement that all parties will act in good faith for the betterment of the country.
This guy has openly announced that he wants to subvert unfavorable election results and, if he regains power, will punish his political enemies just for their opposition, all while filling his pockets from the public coffers. It's all right out in the open and his supporters are ok with it.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Now that We voted, it’s time to discuss more pressing issues - ones that the current president can address is he chooses to.
pinkham13
Footballguy
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
Apparently there are quite a few Republicans that are okay with this stuff so they will be totally on board if Biden wants to seize voting machines in states that he loses, set up fake electors, etc.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Do you understand what an apostrophe is? You ever hear of those? They denote a possessive noun, so I was asking what he meant. Where did you go to school? They should have covered this.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I support the War on Superfluous Apostrophes.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
It's amazing how little fear Republicans have of Dems' willingness to use the same tactics against them. In the rare case when they do, like NY Democrats gerrymandering the crap out of the state in a manner equivalent to what Republicans have done in several other states, we see calls for them to stand down unilaterally.
I can't wait to see the defense in here when the Wisconsin legislature decides to toss results from Milwaukee County if the Senate vote goes badly for Russia Ron Johnson.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
The lost souls don't feel the distance between themselves and the beloved institution. They see the betrayal of the system and their own interests that's been aided and abetted by folks the other side supported. Whether or not that means that "your sins are equal to ours so f it, at least in our dystopian future, we still have borders, freedom and the promise of a meritocracy." that's how it's coming across. F your rights to a free and fair election, sorry. That was collateral damage to the greater cause of my belief system.
I'm not convinced that we're all helpless to only witness this tragedy.
The way forward seem to me for us liberals to own our ####. And for conservatives with some guts left to also show up to the dinner table with an apology note. That's happening but not in as wholesale a way as needs to. IMO.
I'm not convinced that we're all helpless to only witness this tragedy.
The way forward seem to me for us liberals to own our ####. And for conservatives with some guts left to also show up to the dinner table with an apology note. That's happening but not in as wholesale a way as needs to. IMO.
FairWarning
Footballguy
I’m not one of them though, I voted that he should be responsible for everything. I guess I’m a poor conservative.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I voted oddly
all the possibilities are accusations - not crimes committed but accusations
however, I also believe look at them and if Trump did anything - prosecute and hold him accountable just like anyone else. that I voted Trump is irrelevant, he's not above the law
all the possibilities are accusations - not crimes committed but accusations
however, I also believe look at them and if Trump did anything - prosecute and hold him accountable just like anyone else. that I voted Trump is irrelevant, he's not above the law
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
I didn't vote because I'm not certain all of the list items meet the criteria of "crimes". I'd say the worst "actions" that are borderline seditious are 1) finding the 11K votes, 2) the fake electors, and 3) plotting to seize the voting machines.
I still don't understand how anyone supports Donald Trump after everything election related. The fact that there isn't universal condemnation along with actual ramifications that prevent him from holding office again is a huge concern. Since we've never dealt with a threat like this before, we were obviously woefully unprepared. What bothers me the most is we used to have an agreed upon set of norms. Well, thanks to all this, we can't have that anymore. We need everything codified. They can start with the GSA certification, look at the electors and fixing the "I'll just send another slate of electors!" shenanigans, addressing what to do when a sitting President loses an election but won't concede, etc. It's all very disconcerting, to say the least. We shouldn't be in a spot like this in America.
I still don't understand how anyone supports Donald Trump after everything election related. The fact that there isn't universal condemnation along with actual ramifications that prevent him from holding office again is a huge concern. Since we've never dealt with a threat like this before, we were obviously woefully unprepared. What bothers me the most is we used to have an agreed upon set of norms. Well, thanks to all this, we can't have that anymore. We need everything codified. They can start with the GSA certification, look at the electors and fixing the "I'll just send another slate of electors!" shenanigans, addressing what to do when a sitting President loses an election but won't concede, etc. It's all very disconcerting, to say the least. We shouldn't be in a spot like this in America.
Sorry, this ain't it. I get the sentiment, but this all needs to be fixed. I appreciate your candor in expressing his responsibility.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
It really is weird that so many Trump fanatics just brush all this aside as if it's no big deal. I know some personally who throw out excuse after excuse after excuse but most of it boils down to what you said..."It's not technically illegal, but if a Dem ever does it he should go to jail".
FairWarning
Footballguy
Totally agree. Don’t rule out the power play from the secret cabal who wanted him out at any cost. I posted a link earlier in the week from the NYT about the dark money that was raised to get him out. It’s an absolute mess all around. We should never have to question our federal elections, that is what Central American countries do.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
GG asked the question early on. What crimes?
dozer
Footballguy
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
I’m more of a Queen Melania or Princess Ivanka guy, but yes no President did more for that community.
The pitchfork and torches crowd is quite strong in here. It is easy to see the human nature of people why evil dictators can easily stir up anger and commit atrocities. J6 is easily the most overblown event in our nation's history. I have a hard time believing intelligent people are so consumed by it.
Dickies
Footballguy
There were a few posters on here that openly admitted they were okay with it because election tampering versus a Dem president is the lesser of two evils.
Dickies
Footballguy
Yes, unfortunately it was those on the left who were duped. The 'armed deadly insurrection' is the real 'Big Lie'.
What is funny is that you believe this. What are there about a dozen oath keepers charged with sedition? They were so hellbent on overthrowing the government, but they were too scared to bring any guns to the Capitol. The logic to believe this is so convoluted. If this is what sedition is you might as well round up every protestor and fill up all the jails, because they are all guilty of this.
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greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
This is why I cringe when I read or hear "deadly" and "armed." They're both true on something akin to a technicality. That we're focused on these labels that read as 85% hyperbole distracts from the heart of the matter. I'm left and not duped at all about why a few folks died and what "armed" meant. But defending those distinctions is just downright bizarre when what happened is still a totally repugnant abomination.
cosjobs
Footballguy
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
You watched the videos, right? It was all cool and you'd welcome that sort of thing every 4 years? Jumping from "these labels and rhetoric are over the top for me" straight to "nothing to see here, nbd." seems like a pretty big jump.
It does follow what a LOT of that side are espousing. What is funny is that they believe this. Every week that goes by, it's a tourist visit and not a violent attack on our democracy.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
They had caches of weapons and supplies just across the border. Chain of command. Prior plans and communication. Communication tools.
Just because they were tremendous knobs doens't make them any less guilty.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Fear of biden asking for voting machines to be confiscated, told he can't, so he doesn't? No I don't really fear that.
But you forgot the 4 extra they are getting in illinois as well. Including kizingers seat. He thought the dems would go easy on him.....lol
quick-hands
Footballguy
Crony capitalism is far closer to socialism than unfettered capitalism. You could say crony capitalism and socialism are kissing cousins. Both are based on who you know. Both are about the power of pull.
Actually I say that’s fair to wait but much of these accusations are in documents that the committee has their hands on. To wait until the public sees these documents is acceptable especially if one is willing to let the process proceed.
quick-hands
Footballguy
I keep hearing about the caches of weapons. But nobody actually found them. Where did they go?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
after the fake dossier, I highly doubt anything committee's and media have in "their hands" ... we live in an age of manufactured information :(
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Federal prosecutors alleged in a new court filing that members of the Oath Keepers militia group who joined in the Jan. 6 insurrection appear to have stashed weapons at a hotel in Virginia as part of a so-called "Quick Reaction Force" they could activate if violence escalated that day.
In a court document filed Monday seeking the continued detention of Kenneth Harrelson, one of a dozen members of the Oath Keepers charged in a sweeping conspiracy case against the group, prosecutors cited newly discovered communications allegedly showing members discussing storing their weapons at a Comfort Inn in Arlington, Virginia, knowing that possessing such arms within Washington, D.C., would be illegal.
“The evidence suggests that Defendant Harrelson was both aware of the presence of an armed Quick Reaction Force and likely contributed weapons to it," prosecutors said.
Prosecutors pointed to messages allegedly sent in a Signal chat where an unidentified individual referred to as "Person Three" was planning to stay in the hotel on the day of Jan. 6, "because of its close location and easy access to downtown."
"He is committed to being the quick reaction force an[d] bringing the tools if something goes to hell," one of Harrelson's co-defendants in the case, Thomas Caldwell, allegedly wrote to the group.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/oath-keepers-stashed-weapons-hotel-potential-jan-violence/story?id=77048420
Seems unlikely that these communications the prosecutors now have are fabricated or that the Oath Keepers made it all up.
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At the very least I have more faith in Liz Cheney than that. Also she wouldn't be risking her career and her life on fabrication.
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dozer
Footballguy
Thank You.
From the Seditious Conspiracy Indictment agains 11 Oath Keepers.
4. RHODES and certain co-conspirators, to include selected regional leaders, planned to stop the lawful transfer of presidential power by January 20, 2021, which included multiple ways to deploy force. They coordinated travel across the country to enter Washington, D.C., equipped themselves with a variety of weapons, donned combat and tactical gear, and were prepared to answer RHODES'S call to take up arms at RHODES'S direction. Some co-conspirators also amassed firearms on the outskirts of Washington, D.C., distributed them among "quick reaction force" ("QRF") teams, and planned to use the firearms in support of their plot to stop the lawful transfer of presidential power.
I voted none, bc politics is a dirty business. For me, Trump was the best of the worst
Absolutely not perfect, and sometimes a bumbling fool, but he was cleaning up Washington.
And he didn't take any crap, and people didn't like it, so they got offended, and all the networks ganged up on him....except fox
And sure, maybe there were some lobbyists inside of Trump, but not as much as other Presidents
All I know is the economy was humming, my investments were on an upward plane. And Trump was restoring America to a better place
And those of you that voted Biden, you signed our country's death warrant. Look....Trump was never gonna be perfect and he lacked tact, but as I said above....between he and the Biden regime, he was the best of the worst
I look forward to retiring outside of the USA. This communist country doesn't deserve a dime from me. It's gotten enough
Absolutely not perfect, and sometimes a bumbling fool, but he was cleaning up Washington.
And he didn't take any crap, and people didn't like it, so they got offended, and all the networks ganged up on him....except fox
And sure, maybe there were some lobbyists inside of Trump, but not as much as other Presidents
All I know is the economy was humming, my investments were on an upward plane. And Trump was restoring America to a better place
And those of you that voted Biden, you signed our country's death warrant. Look....Trump was never gonna be perfect and he lacked tact, but as I said above....between he and the Biden regime, he was the best of the worst
I look forward to retiring outside of the USA. This communist country doesn't deserve a dime from me. It's gotten enough
dozer
Footballguy
Marcy Wheeler, at emptywheel, .
from July 2021 (we know a lot more now...)
“ONE IF BY LAND, TWO IF BY SEA:” WHAT WE KNOW OF THE OATH KEEPERS’ JANUARY 6 QUICK REACTION FORCE
There was not one thing that happened that day that was any worse than dozens of riots which happened the summer before. Except for police shooting an unarmed woman. That was worse.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
So were they both bad or both good? I'm on team "both bad" it would be handy if you clarified your position.
Then why did they not bring them when the resurrection was on? There was nothing to stop them. Just because they could have brought them is not a crime.
There were aspects of them that were both bad. But one side is hyperventilating over one event and excusing the other. I am on the team equality under the law and that both should be treated equally. Instead we have one were every possible person is being hunted down in the biggest investigation in history and the others there were only a small percentage captured then immediately released.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
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