Why does the Deep South dominate college football? (1 Viewer)

[Phil Elliott]

6th grader from our local middle school in Austin was on Kids Baking Championship tonight on Food Network tonight. . Follow the dough one way or another.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So why is this? 

We’re tough and mean as hell.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

$$$

opportunity to go pro and make more money. 

Facilities, aka $$$

weather

chicks

opportunity to go pro and make more money

$$$

 

[Judge Smails]

It’s a religion. Nowhere else in the country can a waitress at a Waffe  House rattle off the stats of every incoming recruit. 

 

[TripItUp]

Very little root cause analysis in this thread.  

“It’s an institution”

”it’s more popular in high school”

”football is religion in the south”

“It’s regional”

Yeah we know, but why?  How about some real talk.  

Why does the south gravitate to college football when much of the rest of the country and the world doesn’t care?

ill hang up and listen.

 

[AAABatteries]

6th grader from our local middle school in Austin was on Kids Baking Championship tonight on Food Network tonight. . Follow the dough one way or another.

I see what you did there.

 

[Politician Spock]

Arguably the two most dominant modern college football programs ever are Michigan and Notre Dame. 

How are you defining "modern"?

Michigan has won one NC in the last 70 years. 

 

[Politician Spock]

Why does the south gravitate to college football when much of the rest of the country and the world doesn’t care?

It's been answered many times already in this thread... MONEY!

It's not that the rest of the country doesn't have money. It's that the rest of the country has a lot of competition for that money.

Look at the history of Michigan football. It's success mirrors not only the economics of the Detroit area, but also the competition for those dollars in that market. During the boom of the auto industry, when the only competition for sports entertainment is the Detroit Tigers, Michigan football dominated. But then the unions made it harder for the white collars in the Big 3 to make as much profit, foreign cars star eating into the market, the NFL, NBA and NHL all establish teams in the market, and Michigan's dominance ends, and they've only won one NC in the last 70 years. In fact, when Detroit was going bankrupt, Michigan suffered some of it's worst seasons and most embarrassing losses in their history. 

The rise of air conditioning has been a boom to the growth of the population in the south. Not as dramatically impactful as the automobile boom was to Detroit, but none the less the south has been growing compared to the north thanks to air conditioning. But the growth of competition for those dollars has been slower than the economic growth down there. It's true major sports leagues have put expansion teams down there, but that growth is actually slower than the growth of the economy.

That extra money is flowing into college football down there. It's really not all that hard to understand. 

 

[beer 30]

I’m not sure what you disagree with then - I said they play close to home which is the exact example you gave.

Sorry, I should have clarified, I disagree with the first part of your bullet i.e. better talent. In hindsight, probably should have been two separate points.

• Better talent in the deep south and most kids play close to home
  

 

[beer 30]

The rise of air conditioning has been a boom to the growth of the population in the south. Not as dramatically impactful as the automobile boom was to Detroit, but none the less the south has been growing compared to the north thanks to air conditioning. But the growth of competition for those dollars has been slower than the economic growth down there. It's true major sports leagues have put expansion teams down there, but that growth is actually slower than the growth of the economy.

I feel like this is one of those Freakonomic's topics that is overlooked when considering growth in the South. No way in hell i would live here without AC. If the grid ever goes down during the summer the South will be empty.

 

[bigmarc27]

Oh, and what’s with calling it the “deep south?”  The region isn’t plantations and slavery in the 1800s. Atlanta has the highest gay minority population in the world. 

I find it odd how people still view the area as a whole. You go way out into the middle of nowhere, it gets sketchy. I’ve been in Denver, Arizona, California, and in the NE in the past year and find that to be true everywhere. Once you start seeing an highway exits with one run down gas station, just stay on the road. Past that, it’s all the same. 

 

[timschochet]

Oh, and what’s with calling it the “deep south?”  The region isn’t plantations and slavery in the 1800s. Atlanta has the highest gay minority population in the world. 

I find it odd how people still view the area as a whole. You go way out into the middle of nowhere, it gets sketchy. I’ve been in Denver, Arizona, California, and in the NE in the past year and find that to be true everywhere. Once you start seeing an highway exits with one run down gas station, just stay on the road. Past that, it’s all the same. 

I was trying to differentiate from Texas, that’s all. It was a geographical designation; nothing else was intended. Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi- all a very specific region of the country. 

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Very little root cause analysis in this thread.  

“It’s an institution”

”it’s more popular in high school”

”football is religion in the south”

“It’s regional”

Yeah we know, but why?  How about some real talk.  

Why does the south gravitate to college football when much of the rest of the country and the world doesn’t care?

ill hang up and listen.

Think about the 'age' of pro franchises (in most of the 4 majors) for Southern based teams.  If you're in NY, CHI, BOS...pro sports is always on...and for the most part, always has been on.  The heritage of some of the franchises in the NE/MW dates back to the 19th century.  For the South, even the Braves have only been based in Atlanta since 1966.  For a long time in the early and even mid-part of the 20th century...pro sports really did disregard the South as a desired market.  The Cowboys are in the institution they are  because of their dominance early in their existence, but again, they only came into existence in 1960.

It wasn't to say that the South didn't follow sports, but the sports icons and legends they did follow and had closer connections with came from the college ranks.  The presence of pro sports in the South as a whole really was a post WWII (and quite a bit after it) endeavor.  Thus the traditions and legacy that matter most down in the South are the ones steeped in college football. 

In addition, again going back a long way...the rivalries that existed in-state (Ole Miss/Miss St, UGA/Georgia Tech, Alabama/Auburn, Oklahoma/Oklahoma State) and even across state lines (UGA/Auburn, UT/Oklahoma) were the defining 'you vs us' engagements between the South's micro-regions that gave fans of those programs and college football and sense of importance if you will.

With college football exploding in popularity the last 2-3 decades not to mention how many cities in the South have gone thru a population boom during that time (Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, etc...)...it's become an institution that seems inherently seeded and grown in this part of the country versus acquired like pro sports teams and leagues do.

 

[bigbottom]

Sorry, I should have clarified, I disagree with the first part of your bullet i.e. better talent. In hindsight, probably should have been two separate points.

• Better talent in the deep south and most kids play close to home
  

Take a look at the link I posted above about blue chip recruits by state in 2018.  41% from Florida, Texas and Georgia. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I was trying to differentiate from Texas, that’s all. It was a geographical designation; nothing else was intended. Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi- all a very specific region of the country. 

May as well include NC and VA too.  Both are in the top 10 states in producing football talent, IIRC.   But Florida, Texas and California dominate.  It's crazy how terrible USC has been but the answer to that is coaching (Pete Carroll won but Kiffin and the current guy are mediocre).

 

[timschochet]

May as well include NC and VA too.  Both are in the top 10 states in producing football talent, IIRC.   But Florida, Texas and California dominate.  It's crazy how terrible USC has been but the answer to that is coaching (Pete Carroll won but Kiffin and the current guy are mediocre).

I watched the Army high school game last year. Trevor Lawrence started for the east, JT Daniels for the west. They were regarded as the top 2 qbs, and I remember the announcers preferred Daniels. 

I watched lots of JT in high school and saw him all this year. I only saw Lawrence in a few big games and last night. Daniels is fine, and of course he doesn’t have the team around him that Lawrence does. Even so, you can clearly see the difference- Lawrence is head and shoulders a better QB already. 

 

[bigmarc27]

Think about the 'age' of pro franchises (in most of the 4 majors) for Southern based teams.  If you're in NY, CHI, BOS...pro sports is always on...and for the most part, always has been on.  The heritage of some of the franchises in the NE/MW dates back to the 19th century.  For the South, even the Braves have only been based in Atlanta since 1966.  For a long time in the early and even mid-part of the 20th century...pro sports really did disregard the South as a desired market.  The Cowboys are in the institution they are  because of their dominance early in their existence, but again, they only came into existence in 1960.

It wasn't to say that the South didn't follow sports, but the sports icons and legends they did follow and had closer connections with came from the college ranks.  The presence of pro sports in the South as a whole really was a post WWII (and quite a bit after it) endeavor.  Thus the traditions and legacy that matter most down in the South are the ones steeped in college football. 

In addition, again going back a long way...the rivalries that existed in-state (Ole Miss/Miss St, UGA/Georgia Tech, Alabama/Auburn, Oklahoma/Oklahoma State) and even across state lines (UGA/Auburn, UT/Oklahoma) were the defining 'you vs us' engagements between the South's micro-regions that gave fans of those programs and college football and sense of importance if you will.

With college football exploding in popularity the last 2-3 decades not to mention how many cities in the South have gone thru a population boom during that time (Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, etc...)...it's become an institution that seems inherently seeded and grown in this part of the country versus acquired like pro sports teams and leagues do.

Agree with most of this...  I mean the Falcons are Red and Black because of UGA. 

Basically, it just means more. 

 

[Capella]

I watched the Army high school game last year. Trevor Lawrence started for the east, JT Daniels for the west. They were regarded as the top 2 qbs, and I remember the announcers preferred Daniels. 

I watched lots of JT in high school and saw him all this year. I only saw Lawrence in a few big games and last night. Daniels is fine, and of course he doesn’t have the team around him that Lawrence does. Even so, you can clearly see the difference- Lawrence is head and shoulders a better QB already. 

247 had Lawrence as the 6th best prospect of all-time. Daniels was like 330. They weren’t even close. Whatever announcers you listened to were idiots.   

Also Justin Fields was a better prospect than Daniels. 

 

[SoBeDad]

Oh, and what’s with calling it the “deep south?”  The region isn’t plantations and slavery in the 1800s. Atlanta has the highest gay minority population in the world. 

I find it odd how people still view the area as a whole. You go way out into the middle of nowhere, it gets sketchy. I’ve been in Denver, Arizona, California, and in the NE in the past year and find that to be true everywhere. Once you start seeing an highway exits with one run down gas station, just stay on the road. Past that, it’s all the same. 

Urban South Florida also has a different vibe than most of the Deep South.  No billboards for the 10 commandments, but good organized football at a young age in most black communities. It's a pathway out of poverty. 

The 5 championships for the Hurricanes from 1983 to 2001 was due to a combination of good athletes and pro-style innovative coaches, who emphasized speed over size. They were also successful at getting some key players from other regions, who were attracted to Miami and it's coaches, such as Kelly, Kosar, Vinnie,  Winslow, McKinnie, etc. The Miami 1983-2001 college and NFL success is an outlier phenomenon that won't be repeated. 

Basketball is not as big in south Florida as in the Northeast, which may steer some dual-athletes to football. 

 

[Da Guru]

Here are the National Championship matchups for the last 10 years: 

2019: Alabama vs Clemson

2018: Alabama vs Georgia

2017:  Alabama vs Clemson

2016: Alabama vs Clemson

2015: Oregon vs Ohio State

2014: Florida St vs Auburn

2013: Alabama vs Notre Dame

2012: Alabama vs LSU

2011: Auburn vs Oregon

2010: Alabama vs Texas

20 teams, 15 of them from the Deep South. That’s 75%. I’m not including Texas; otherwise it would go up to 80%. 

Even putting  aside the incredible dominance of one team from Tuscaloosa, the south is pretty much in control of college football at this point. So why is this? 

One thing that might help is that if you can spell your name correctly you qualify for admission.

 

[General Malaise]

I think here's another reason why the deep south dominates....and it was on display BIG TIME last night.  The deep south loves themselves some jesus.  Faith means a lot to some of these recruits and if Dabo or Saban or a fraudster like Hugh Freeze need to use loving the lord to get the kids to sign on the dotted line, they'll do it, boy.  Jesus got more likes last night than Imagine Dragons after the game.  It matters.

West coast is largely a godless society (blessedly) and they don't wear jesus on their sleeves or advertise him on bumper stickers up north the way they do in the south.  

 

[General Malaise]

Urban South Florida also has a different vibe than most of the Deep South.  No billboards for the 10 commandments, but good organized football at a young age in most black communities. It's a pathway out of poverty. 

The 5 championships for the Hurricanes from 1983 to 2001 was due to a combination of good athletes and pro-style innovative coaches, who emphasized speed over size. They were also successful at getting some key players from other regions, who were attracted to Miami and it's coaches, such as Kelly, Kosar, Vinnie,  Winslow, McKinnie, etc. The Miami 1983-2001 college and NFL success is an outlier phenomenon that won't be repeated. 

Basketball is not as big in south Florida as in the Northeast, which may steer some dual-athletes to football. 

Well, don't forget that 2 Live Crew et al was paying the players to play at the U too.  That mattered.

 

[Tin Cup]

I've seen a few folks mention weather from the perspective of kids wanting to play in better vs. worse weather.

Another related factor is that many of these southern teams rarely head north of the Mason Dixon line.  So they don't have to play in bad weather like Big 10 teams do, for example.  Getting to play most games in sunny and favorable conditions must be nice compared to having to play in Nebraska or Iowa in November.

If you couple a presumed high-end talent home field advantage in places like Georgia and Florida with rarely/never having to play in snow/ice/other poor-weather situations, one could argue that that helps minimize the risk of losing and therefore increases the chance of staying toward the top of the polls and in the right neighborhood for playoff consideration.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I've seen a few folks mention weather from the perspective of kids wanting to play in better vs. worse weather.

Another related factor is that many of these southern teams rarely head north of the Mason Dixon line.  So they don't have to play in bad weather like Big 10 teams do, for example.  Getting to play most games in sunny and favorable conditions must be nice compared to having to play in Nebraska or Iowa in November.

If you couple a presumed high-end talent home field advantage in places like Georgia and Florida with rarely/never having to play in snow/ice/other poor-weather situations, one could argue that that helps minimize the risk of losing and therefore increases the chance of staying toward the top of the polls and in the right neighborhood for playoff consideration.

Meh.  Go play in the south in September when it's 98 degrees and 100% humidity.  Some teams handle it better than others.  

 

[mr. furley]

Meh.  Go play in the south in September when it's 98 degrees and 100% humidity.  Some teams handle it better than others.  

sure you might dehydrate and collapse on the field after a while.. that would suck.. but just being outside hurts 4-5 months out of the year here.

not doing anything. not physically exerting oneself to the point of dangerous exhaustion being a factor. just.... being. just walking out the door. hurts. 

it's about 25 here today with wind gusts up to 35 - 40 mph. i won't see a single kid outside on my drive home at 5... when it's pitch black because the sun sets at 4:30.

that's a factor

 

[Capella]

I think here's another reason why the deep south dominates....and it was on display BIG TIME last night.  The deep south loves themselves some jesus.  Faith means a lot to some of these recruits and if Dabo or Saban or a fraudster like Hugh Freeze need to use loving the lord to get the kids to sign on the dotted line, they'll do it, boy.  Jesus got more likes last night than Imagine Dragons after the game.  It matters.

West coast is largely a godless society (blessedly) and they don't wear jesus on their sleeves or advertise him on bumper stickers up north the way they do in the south.  

I was in Deep South last week for New Years and almost every house had a yard sign out front that said “thank you Jesus” — a yard sign like you would see for a political candidate. 

Now I am a religious man who never, ever goes to church but that was way way way too weird. 

 

[Moe.]

sure you might dehydrate and collapse on the field after a while.. that would suck.. but just being outside hurts 4-5 months out of the year here.

not doing anything. not physically exerting oneself to the point of dangerous exhaustion being a factor. just.... being. just walking out the door. hurts. 

it's about 25 here today with wind gusts up to 35 - 40 mph. i won't see a single kid outside on my drive home at 5... when it's pitch black because the sun sets at 4:30.

that's a factor

And on-campus college football is pretty much over by that time anyhow. I know we get a few cool cold weather games per year in the B1G, but in general it's way overrated. They aren't playing home games in January and February. 

 

[roadkill1292]

I think here's another reason why the deep south dominates....and it was on display BIG TIME last night.  The deep south loves themselves some jesus.  Faith means a lot to some of these recruits and if Dabo or Saban or a fraudster like Hugh Freeze need to use loving the lord to get the kids to sign on the dotted line, they'll do it, boy.  Jesus got more likes last night than Imagine Dragons after the game.  It matters.

West coast is largely a godless society (blessedly) and they don't wear jesus on their sleeves or advertise him on bumper stickers up north the way they do in the south.  

It's definitely part and parcel of the bigger cultural picture.  I wonder if Bible Belt folks fail to appreciate just how secular we are in Blue America as much as we fail to grasp just how important church affiliation is down there? 

Dabo takes it way too far, btw. If the reports are true, he needs to check his religion at the door while employed at a state school.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

It's definitely part and parcel of the bigger cultural picture.  I wonder if Bible Belt folks fail to appreciate just how secular we are in Blue America as much as we fail to grasp just how important church affiliation is down there? 

Dabo takes it way too far, btw. If the reports are true, he needs to check his religion at the door while employed at a state school.

Or you could just deal with it and accept that is who he is (different from you) and accept that Clemson clearly doesn't have a problem with him.

JOY = Jesus, Others, yourself

 

[General Malaise]

Yeah, I don't think Clemson admin is going to find any fault with Dabo's ways; it's part of who he is and the kids that play for him seem to love it.  

 

[mr. furley]

And on-campus college football is pretty much over by that time anyhow. I know we get a few cool cold weather games per year in the B1G, but in general it's way overrated. They aren't playing home games in January and February. 

practicing, playing pickup football, pickup basketball, just being outside running around and doing things that teen boys do that keep them in shape, though. completely off the board.

gonna be tough to rally guys for an hour or two of pitch and catch/running routes when your balls hurt just being outside for 10 minutes.

that sort of practice without actually doing organized activities with a team are out. 

people wonder why midwesterners are fat. it's because we're cooped up half the year. can't just step outside for a hike, a nice picnic with the family and an evening swim when you could die from exposure inside of 30 minutes.

 

[Capella]

It's definitely part and parcel of the bigger cultural picture.  I wonder if Bible Belt folks fail to appreciate just how secular we are in Blue America as much as we fail to grasp just how important church affiliation is down there? 

Dabo takes it way too far, btw. If the reports are true, he needs to check his religion at the door while employed at a state school.

Lol I am guessing Clemson’s internal affairs isn’t going to be looking into that. 

 

[roadkill1292]

Lol I am guessing Clemson’s internal affairs isn’t going to be looking into that. 

Yeah, that would only be an issue at schools in Secular America, and not even at all of them if the right coach was winning bigly enough in the right sport.

 

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, that would only be an issue at schools in Secular America, and not even at all of them if the right coach was winning bigly enough in the right sport.

It's not an issue at my alma mater...oh, wait. My alma mater is a (loosely) Presbyterian-affiliated college.

 

[Pipes]

sure you might dehydrate and collapse on the field after a while.. that would suck.. but just being outside hurts 4-5 months out of the year here.

not doing anything. not physically exerting oneself to the point of dangerous exhaustion being a factor. just.... being. just walking out the door. hurts. 

it's about 25 here today with wind gusts up to 35 - 40 mph. i won't see a single kid outside on my drive home at 5... when it's pitch black because the sun sets at 4:30.

that's a factor

You live in Alaska Furley?  it was 55 and sunny in Madison on Saturday...had burgers on the grill.  I realize weather is a factor but winter lasts from mid December to mid maybe the end of Feb now a days.  2 maybe 3 tops tough months and the kids are off of school most of January. 

 

[mr. furley]

You live in Alaska Furley?  it was 55 and sunny in Madison on Saturday...had burgers on the grill.  I realize weather is a factor but winter lasts from mid December to mid maybe the end of Feb now a days.  2 maybe 3 tops tough months and the kids are off of school most of January. 

yeah, it was like 43 here on Saturday. then it rained. a lot. non-stop. and now it's windy as #### and supposed to ice over.

when i lived in Milwaukee winters felt a lot shorter. days were warmer. the lake really helped regulate snow amounts and temps. any time i drove north a couple hours it was like drifting off in to the wilderness.

Milwaukee would have 2 - 3" of snow on the ground.... GB would have 2 - 3 feet.

different world even though only 100 miles apart.

 

[Slapdash]

It's definitely part and parcel of the bigger cultural picture.  I wonder if Bible Belt folks fail to appreciate just how secular we are in Blue America as much as we fail to grasp just how important church affiliation is down there? 

Dabo takes it way too far, btw. If the reports are true, he needs to check his religion at the door while employed at a state school.

Others are right that this will never really matter, but you would enjoy this:  https://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/item/20366-ffrf-files-complaint-with-south-carolina-university

Not being a christian in the south is always going to be an uphill battle, particularly when the government is on the other side.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Also I’m glad this popped up since there’s not like an entire thread to devoted to college football. 

College football is a broad topic. I don't think it has to stay in one thread. 

 

[Henry Ford]

It’s a religion. Nowhere else in the country can a waitress at a Waffe  House rattle off the stats of every incoming recruit. 

To be fair, half the country doesn’t even have Waffle House

 

[Joe Bryant]

I was in Deep South last week for New Years and almost every house had a yard sign out front that said “thank you Jesus” — a yard sign like you would see for a political candidate. 

Now I am a religious man who never, ever goes to church but that was way way way too weird. 

Really? Where? I've lived in Tennessee (not deep south) for 30 years and don't know I've ever seen that. Was it a leftover Christmas thing?

 

[Joe Bryant]

To answer Tim's question, I think it's simply priorities.

For the most part, college football is more important here than other parts of the country. People devote time and money towards what's important to them. Hopefully when they devote time and money, results follow. 

I think Phil Knight and Oregon is a good example. We have fewer individual Phil Knights, but a lot more people with less money but just as much passion. 

I'd guess lots of things are like that. Soccer is a bigger deal in Europe. Volleyball bigger in California. 

College in particular with it's uneven distribution of attracting new players as opposed to the pros with a draft and even distribution (or in reality, uneven distribution punishing the better teams), it's easier to keep a trend going. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Sorry, I should have clarified, I disagree with the first part of your bullet i.e. better talent. In hindsight, probably should have been two separate points.

• Better talent in the deep south and most kids play close to home
  

Strongly disagree that there’s not more talent in the Deep South.

 

[AAABatteries]

Really? Where? I've lived in Tennessee (not deep south) for 30 years and don't know I've ever seen that. Was it a leftover Christmas thing?

Yep, never seen that anywhere in GA either.  

 

[AAABatteries]

To be fair, half the country doesn’t even have Waffle House

Some of those godless heathens don’t have gay hating chicken houses either.  Philistines!

 

[Capella]

Really? Where? I've lived in Tennessee (not deep south) for 30 years and don't know I've ever seen that. Was it a leftover Christmas thing?

Small city outside of Durham 

 

[Capella]

Yep, never seen that anywhere in GA either.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wral.com/asheboro-teenager-s-thank-you-jesus-yard-signs-top-sales-of-more-than-100k-across-the-country-and-is-now-reaching-foreign-countr/17213729/%3fversion=amp

 

[Joe Bryant]

Small city outside of Durham 

Durham, North Carolina? 

Interesting. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wral.com/asheboro-teenager-s-thank-you-jesus-yard-signs-top-sales-of-more-than-100k-across-the-country-and-is-now-reaching-foreign-countr/17213729/%3fversion=amp

Thanks. I've never seen one. Maybe it was just a NC thing around that town. 

 

[Capella]

Thanks. I've never seen one. Maybe it was just a NC thing around that town. 

Article says 100k sold across the country now, but yes that town was a big buyer. Every other house. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Back to the topic. Of all the reasons the south (and Texas) is winning college football, I think Jesus has nothing to do with it. 

I think it's simply college football is more important here and therefore people put more time / money / effort towards it.