NajehHejan
Footballguy
I wish I could cut him mid game. Never again.
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WR Brandin Cooks, DAL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lardonastick
- Start date
cubbie5150
Footballguy
SMH. Saints leading entire first half, Cooks predictably not contributing to said lead. No garbage time to bail us out tonight it seems.
jtd13
Footballguy
Yeah the throw sucked, but he should make that catch.
I'm still holding in Dynasty, but I don't think it's happening this year. He's just not involved for whatever reason.
ATB
Footballguy
It's not the scheme. I think it's Brees. Either he can't see smaller receivers or doesn't trust them to go up and get a contested ball.
jtd13
Footballguy
Vitrol like this toward the guy is pretty stupid. I think just watching how defense approach him shows you that they respect his talent. Is he good enough to consistently beat a double team or top corner right now? obviously not. But I don't think he'd be seeing so much safety help if he were "Garbage".
NajehHejan
Footballguy
tone1oc
Footballguy
He doesn't appear to be a very good WR.. Doesn't seem to get much separation with his route running, which is a problem if you are pint sized. He's probably best served as a gadget player in a better offense IMO. I don't see a viable WR for fantasy purposes until the field opens up for him.
tone1oc
Footballguy
Why would he.. he's constantly blanketed, a small target, not physical and is not breaking off any big plays. He's a pick 6 waiting to happen
JoeyJoeJoeJrShabadoo
Footballguy
Wow, first Saints game I've watched this year. Cooks is like the 5th or 6th option- there's been two plays designed for him and other than that he never even gets a target. Yeesh, what a waste of a pick.
NajehHejan
Footballguy
tone1oc
Footballguy
That was a nice play design and catch, but he still was blanketed and Brees dropped a dime. No YAC
cubbie5150
Footballguy
I feel lucky we got 40 yds out of him. Please Steve Smiff, sit out this week, come back week 7 a little healthier.
Chaka
Footballguy
You guys are funny. He's not producing but he is still the #1 targeted player on the team and this was the first game where he didn't have the most targets overall. He was tied with Snead for most WR targets with 5 (both were way behind Watson), which is a low number compared with his season average of 8. Tonight Brees and Payton clearly saw something with the way the Falcons were playing Watson and they exploited it.
The point isn't that he is good, or that he will even become good later in the season it's just that he is clearly part of the game plan. If you don't think so you probably aren't paying close attention.
The point isn't that he is good, or that he will even become good later in the season it's just that he is clearly part of the game plan. If you don't think so you probably aren't paying close attention.
tone1oc
Footballguy
He's absolutely a part of the game plan, I just don't think he's very good. Not many drafted him to be a player that would get targets and not turn it into yards or TDs.
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cubbie5150
Footballguy
From watching, it sure as hell didn't seem to me that Brees was even looking for Cooks. I thought the same week 5; he didn't look for Cooks until that final drive.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Cooks dropped a pass on 2nd and 18 that would have been near the first down if he didn't let the ball touch the ground. The Falcons challenged and got that play taken away.
I am not sure what transpires after this because I haven't watched the rest yet. Cooks was involved on some other plays prior to this one however. One was a WR screen that he only got a yard on due to good defense.
Drew Brees and Payton are using zone beaters because that is what Atlanta is playing. Attacking the seam of the zone with Hill a couple times and that seems to be working.
I am not sure what transpires after this because I haven't watched the rest yet. Cooks was involved on some other plays prior to this one however. One was a WR screen that he only got a yard on due to good defense.
Drew Brees and Payton are using zone beaters because that is what Atlanta is playing. Attacking the seam of the zone with Hill a couple times and that seems to be working.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Cooks needs someone else who can make the defense pay on the field. If Watson or Snead or Spiller puts in a game next week like Watson had tonight, start Cooks from then on. There's just no one else the defense needs to respect when the Saints offense is sputtering.
Chaka
Footballguy
I understand that and completely agree. My point only had to do with the multiple comments about how he didn't seem to be a part of the game plan.
What I find baffling is how Payton has entirely abandoned creativity in his scheming to get Cooks open. He is seldom in motion and, while I have only watched parts of most Saints games this year, I don't think I have seen him line up in the backfield or take the ball on a reverse or really even any bunch formations to try and get him the ball with a couple blockers in front of him. It just seems that he lines up in the slot and is told "go do something". Very weird IMO.
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Blick
Footballguy
jurb26
Footballguy
They have been creative with him, at times. Perhaps not as often as people would like. Then again, few players are ever used creatively enough to appease FFers or owners. In the end, players can't be dependent on gimmicky plays. They have to win in the confines of a typical offense and the offense run by the team. Cooks just isn't proving capable of that.
I've noticed that NO is using Cooks on a lot of deep, what I think are, clear out patterns. They must see him as the only guy capable of garnering respect from DBs in this regard. It's lead to a misconception that he's being doubled a lot IMO. I'm not seeing double coverage by design. I'm seeing single high S's who role his way because he's the only threat on many plays. Meaning he is the only guy running a deep route, so of course they role that way. They did this a good amount last night to free Watson underneath.
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
I havent cut him, but he is benched until the bye weeks, I had him benched last night, I just dont trust him and is startable in only bye week filler mode until further notice...
Shutout
Footballguy
First time I've watched a full game this year and I have to opine that you guys are lucky he even got what he got.
Even in ppr, he was one catch away from a 3.5 point night until making that one catch that they honestly didn't even need to press on.
I know someone said the numbers suggest he is the "most targeted" but I can tell you if last night's game is an indicator and not an outlier, he is NOT the guy getting the QUALITY targets. Brees seems to look at everyone except Cooks when the money is on the line and that is concerning.
Take a guy like Dez Bryant. We know who he is and what he can do but the thing that keeps Bryant from being Antonio Brown/Julio/D. Thomas (when Manning was great) is that he is only a 50% "money guy". Romo feels comfortable with Witten and the run game to never heavily rely on A GUY. THe Saints have ALWAYS relied on A GUY and right now, Cooks ain't that guy ... or even close.
Even in ppr, he was one catch away from a 3.5 point night until making that one catch that they honestly didn't even need to press on.
I know someone said the numbers suggest he is the "most targeted" but I can tell you if last night's game is an indicator and not an outlier, he is NOT the guy getting the QUALITY targets. Brees seems to look at everyone except Cooks when the money is on the line and that is concerning.
Take a guy like Dez Bryant. We know who he is and what he can do but the thing that keeps Bryant from being Antonio Brown/Julio/D. Thomas (when Manning was great) is that he is only a 50% "money guy". Romo feels comfortable with Witten and the run game to never heavily rely on A GUY. THe Saints have ALWAYS relied on A GUY and right now, Cooks ain't that guy ... or even close.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I'm frustrated as hell because I don't think they are using him the right way but they really need someone to open things up for him because he's not going to be the cornerstone of the receiving corps.
Brees lacks the arm to utilize his deep speed and Payton doesn't use the rolling pocket in a way that could take advantage of Cooks on the backside of plays that Kubiak and Kyle Shanahan and other use.
Just really frustrating to see Brees throwing ugly ducks low and then giving up.
Cooks has talent but its just not getting tapped right now in this offense. Last year they began to figure things out and started going with deeper routes but I don't know the status of Brees' shoulder and what his limitations are.
Brees lacks the arm to utilize his deep speed and Payton doesn't use the rolling pocket in a way that could take advantage of Cooks on the backside of plays that Kubiak and Kyle Shanahan and other use.
Just really frustrating to see Brees throwing ugly ducks low and then giving up.
Cooks has talent but its just not getting tapped right now in this offense. Last year they began to figure things out and started going with deeper routes but I don't know the status of Brees' shoulder and what his limitations are.
Milkman
Footballguy
Rolling a safety over to Cooks side everytime he goes deep "is" getting double. What Brees is seeing is Cooks lining up and having to beat press, which he struggles with, and as the play developes he sees the safety rolling over to that side. Brees can't throw into that ever with a 5'9 target.
The other guys going off last night might help Cooks later this year because it could begin to open things up for him.
The other guys going off last night might help Cooks later this year because it could begin to open things up for him.
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Omniscient Deity
Footballguy
You'd think a "great offensive mind" like Sean Payton would find more creative ways to get him in space or get him easier matchups, especially in games they've lost.
Chaka
Footballguy
Good point about the deep clear out routes, I have noticed that as well. And I am not suggesting they turn him into a gimmick guy but I don't think I have even seen them do bunch formations or even put him in motion that much. That is pretty standard stuff for a guy who is supposed to have short area quickness (something I am not certain is true).
Chaka
Footballguy
I agree about the targets not being quality which also meshes with jurb's point about him running more deep routes, those are typically low reward plays. However the numbers don't just suggest it they clearly demonstrate that he is the most targeted WR. That may shift to Snead but through 6 weeks that was Cooks status.
I also don't necessarily agree about your premise for Dez. He may not get the volume as a Brown or Julio but he is clearly a 100% money guy. He has put up consistently gaudy TD numbers (increased every season which will obviously will cap out but hasn't so far...do I need to say "barring injury"?). His usage goes up as the offense gets closer to the end zone. As long as Romo and Linehan are running the show Dez is the guy most likely to lead the league in TD receptions.
tone1oc
Footballguy
He's not making any plays when he does catch it.
Shutout
Footballguy
We are talking about two different things here. You are going strictly by the numbers and I am talking about flow through a game.
Being the "most targeted" by the numbers can be "correct" but it's relative. It's like saying One brother has the most cars...but then you see that his ten cars are all Fords and the other brother "only" has 7 cars ... but his are Bentleys. You're right...by the numbers, but I like what younger brother is doing with his cars much better.
On Dez, slice it any way you want it. We will disagree. I'm not going to pull a number off a piece of paper and argue against what I know is right. Dez is nowhere near the "guy" as several other players are in the league and that is part of what makes it being "frustrated with the most beautiful women in the world". The Cowboys give so much to other players (and it works for them) but Dez could be a Gronk among WRs if the team truly committed to him like some other teams do their players. We will simply disagree on nit picking stats vs. what happens on the field on that one.
Shutout
Footballguy
It does not appear their line is good enough to allow them to do that and maybe that is something that hurts Cooks in the offense..Just a thought.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Cooks' best two games this year where when the Saints got beaten handily and he racked up some garbage stats at the end, which all count, so at this rate, if you are still a Cooks owner (I traded him nine days ago), your best hope is the Saints losing a lot this year.
NajehHejan
Footballguy
I agree that garbage stats count too but imo they are only reliable when you have a team you know is consistently dog meat, like say the Jags of the past few years (not this year) and the Raiders of a few years back. The Saints will be up and down but they don't flat out suck. Cooks was lucky as heck to score a TD on the last play of the Eagles game as time expired. Counting onConsistent garbage time stats from the Saints is very dicey. Best to cut Cooks and move on so you're not ever tempted to start him.
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kittenmittens
Footballguy
Things aren't likely to get better after Brees retires or declins further. His dynasty value is pretty low right now.
