Youth Soccer - Questions, Discussion and Stories (1 Viewer)

[The Z Machine]

My son's fledgling "club" is playing in a tournament the weekend after this one. We just got the bracket info and we're slotted into the lowest level. This was a tournament that they won handily last year, allowing 1 or 2 goals in 4 games. They have also won another tournament recently, going undefetaed. Yet the organizers seem to think that since there's not much history with this group that the team should play at the lowest level. Not a great move for competitive balance. I was hoping that they would step up to the midrange of the groupings this time.

My son has moved into primarily a left wing position, sometimes playing on the right wing. He's still too tentative when striking the ball, but is showing good positioning and excellent passing to set up his teammates. He's getting more assists than goals lately. Really needs to build power into his shot, which has been a weak spot of his for years now.

He'll play indoor this winter, despite me trying really hard for him to sign up for basketball instead.

 

[acarey50]

My son's fledgling "club" is playing in a tournament the weekend after this one. We just got the bracket info and we're slotted into the lowest level. This was a tournament that they won handily last year, allowing 1 or 2 goals in 4 games. They have also won another tournament recently, going undefetaed. Yet the organizers seem to think that since there's not much history with this group that the team should play at the lowest level. Not a great move for competitive balance. I was hoping that they would step up to the midrange of the groupings this time.

My son has moved into primarily a left wing position, sometimes playing on the right wing. He's still too tentative when striking the ball, but is showing good positioning and excellent passing to set up his teammates. He's getting more assists than goals lately. Really needs to build power into his shot, which has been a weak spot of his for years now.

He'll play indoor this winter, despite me trying really hard for him to sign up for basketball instead.

Out of curiosity, is your club or coach advocating to the tournament directors for your team to be placed higher when they are applying/registering for these tournaments?

If not, then the organizers are probably going off of something like Got Soccer rankings or affiliation (ECNL, NPL, EA, etc.) to try and place teams, and as a new "club" likely with none of these things, not much for them to go on.

 

[The Z Machine]

Out of curiosity, is your club or coach advocating to the tournament directors for your team to be placed higher when they are applying/registering for these tournaments?

Yes, I think that they were advocating to get bumped up, but didn't get it. They are making another run at it again though, so we'll see.

 

[SwampDawg]

Out of curiosity, is your club or coach advocating to the tournament directors for your team to be placed higher when they are applying/registering for these tournaments?

Yes, I think that they were advocating to get bumped up, but didn't get it. They are making another run at it again though, so we'll see.

Yea as @acarey50 said they are likely just going off rankings. And it could be while you guys are better then the teams in your group maybe no one in the group above merits being moved down. Some times it just works out that way. I've seeded enough baseball tournaments over the years to know. But best of luck and hope they get moved up because nothing helps teams/players develop quicker then playing better talent.

 

[SwampDawg]

Back at it with the club team this coming weekend in the first showcase of the year. Should be some good games, Friday we play the team that knocked us out at the Regional semi-final in June and we get our first game against an MLS Next team on Saturday. Good chance we are missing 2 starters (3 players total) as they could well be playing for a high school state championship if they take care of business Tuesday in the Semi's against a team they dismantled earlier this fall.

 

[The Z Machine]

Out of curiosity, is your club or coach advocating to the tournament directors for your team to be placed higher when they are applying/registering for these tournaments?

Yes, I think that they were advocating to get bumped up, but didn't get it. They are making another run at it again though, so we'll see.

Yea as @acarey50 said they are likely just going off rankings. And it could be while you guys are better then the teams in your group maybe no one in the group above merits being moved down. Some times it just works out that way. I've seeded enough baseball tournaments over the years to know. But best of luck and hope they get moved up because nothing helps teams/players develop quicker then playing better talent.

I just heard today that they got moved up to the 3rd of 5 groups. Should be much better competition. We'll see how the boys play.

 

[SwampDawg]

@The Z Machine how did they make out?

Was happy with our boys, 4-0 win over the team that knocked us out at Regionals on Friday. Saturday 3-2 loss to the MLS Next team but we were competitive with them, they were the better team but we made them work. Finished with a 3-0 win yesterday over a team from Long Island. Overall my son did ok for having not played a competitive game since September, no glaring mistakes other then taking an extra touch on a short corner when he should have just served it in. Can't even complain about the weather for mid November in NJ, however this upcoming weekend looks like it could be a different story, might need to break out the warmer clothes.

 

[SwampDawg]

Another great weekend, 3-0, 7 goals scored only 1 allowed. 30+ college coaches at our games over the weekend. One of the schools my son is interested in attended two games and sounds like he asked our coach to start him one of the games if he could. He didn't have his best game but he was solid overall. made one blunder dribbling too much and turned the ball over but worked his tail off getting back defensively and he slipped on a corner play they have were he acts like he talking to the coach and they play the ball out to him and he plays it in. When he slipped he hit a line drive just into a bunch instead of over the top.

 

[The Z Machine]

@The Z Machine how did they make out?

His team was in the 3rd of 5 levels for 2013 (U11) with 6 teams in their bracket. They steamrolled the competition, with a 21-1 goal differential, winning the championship (3rd trophy in 3 tourneys). Only goal was let in by a forward that filled in for the starting goalie so that the starting keeper could get some touches and not be bored out of his mind. They added another midfielder to bring the roster up to 12 players (they are 9v9). He's a solid pickup that jumped from a club team to join the rag-tag startup we have going on.

My son had 2 goals and an assist. Played well but not exceptionally well. Solid contribution to a quality team performance. He has some holes in his game that I hope he can fill in the coming years: 1) Some of his passes are weak and not crisp. He seems afraid to play harder balls in as he thinks his teammates lack the touch to handle it and they'll turn it over. 2) He ball watches too much after making a pass instead of hustling to find a seam and make a passing triangle. The team has a few really high technical ability dribblers and he will just stop and watch them. 3) He tends to not go end line to end line. Likes to hang in the middle of the field as he thinks it puts him in a better position when there's a turnover. He's not wrong, but he doesn't press as much as he should, and he expects his defense to bail him out if he gets beat or loses the ball. 4) He lacks power on his shot. I think it's a confidence thing and a flexibility thing. He's strong enough, but has very tight hamstrings so he generates less leg swing on the follow through.

Now some good: 1) He's really learning to see the game well and make quality passes to his teammates, even learning to pass back to get out of a jam instead of trying to dribble through the defense and always go vertical. 2) His dribbling and touch is good. Not an exceptional dribbler with elite change of direction, but receives the ball well, makes good turns and fights through tackles. 3) He's doing well not getting sucked into the center of the field and sticking to his midfield wing position. Covers his space on D well. 4) Can finish with either foot (right is weaker), can pass with either foot, can go to either side when dribbling.

His team is playing really excellent team defense. Their centerback is quality, he's tall, got wheels, has good touch, and can bang in a goal from the top of the box. I saw this kid bait at least one opposing attacker to latch onto a long ball out of the back so that he could steal it from him. He had a chance to play it out of bounds, but let the other kid have it so that he could dispossess and then make a pass upfield quickly to spark a counter.

Highlight of the tourney was in the final where the right wing earned a penalty and then buried it side netting to seal a 3-0 win. That kid isn't the normal spot kick taker, but he earned the penalty, so he took it. The boys are having fun winning (we'll see when they lose...). They have another tournament this coming weekend in Columbia, MD. Southampton Cup or something.

 

[The Z Machine]

Well the boys lost their first game ever. They won their 3 team group with 3-0, 4-0 wins on Saturday. Both games were closer than the scoreline seemed though. My son's team didn't score in the first half of either game, and they seemed to generate little offense. The field was turf and it was raining until just before kickoff, so it was wet and slick. Nonetheless, the boys weren't really sharp, not even their top 2 skill players.

Neither my wife nor I attened either of the Saturday games. My son came home looking bedraggled and had a migraine. His sister also took a turn for the worse and was vomiting Saturday night into Sunday. My son woke up not feeling well, but rebounded enough to play. His energy was low though for sure.

They won the semi-final on Sunday morning pretty easily 4-1. Clean sheet streak broken by an unstoppable free kick from the other team. We missed a penalty that was nicely saved by a diving goalie. I figured we'd be facing the buzzsaw team on the other side of the bracket (Avid soccer club?) , but they ended up losing their semi to the team we beat 3-0 in the first game. I think this set the kids up to think they had a cakewalk.

Boy were they wrong. They were slow and second to every loose ball. The other team came out hyped... aggressive and fast, putting pressure on our back line when we tried to play it out of the back. The opponent's first goal was a shot from outside the box into the upper 90. Nice strike from a 10 year old. Then one of our best defenders had a bad touch off a keeper roll out, and the opponents turned that into an easy goal. Down 2-0 within 8 minutes... The team rallied to earn a penalty in the closing minutes of the first half, but it hit the crossbar, then the goalie's head and was saved. 2 missed penalties in as many matches.

That deflated the kids some and they were really lethargic in the second half. My son was not playing well. Not moving much, and not connecting on passes, nor beating people on the dribble. He wasn't the only one moving at half speed. It seemed like the other team was playing with an extra player for most of the match. It was the same group that my son's team beat 3-0, but this time, they lost 0-3.

There were some tears from a few players, but overall the boys and coaches took it well. I think they were just tired and this tournament was one too many coming only 2 weeks after the previous. They aren't a travel or club team and it showed in this final. One of the coaches admitted to me that they were happy for the team to get a loss and the boys to get some learning about getting up for every game.

No real highlights for my son. He had a quiet tourney. 3 assists in the first 3 games, but invisible or poor in the final game.

 

[SwampDawg]

Had a good trip to SC. Weather was better then expected, was supposed to be cool and rainy and while cloudy we only had a few sprinkles on Friday and temps were decent. Boys played well with a pair of 2-0 wins on Friday and Saturday and a 1-1 draw on Sunday. Friday we had 65 college coaches on the sideline and 35 again on Saturday which was awesome. By the time we played Sunday I think most had headed home but we still had a dozen or so. While he didn't make any real big mistakes I'm not sure if it is the pressure of the coaches on the sideline or just a general lack of confidence at the moment my son is playing ok but just seems a little off. He has never been the most technical player (at this level, at High School he looks like Messi) but he has always been solid and made up for it with being more athletic and having a grit to him. He is showing it at times but other times he seems content to just not make a mistake and contain. Not saying there isn't times to do that but it's not what has made him get to where he is. For example this was a little burst where he was playing outside mid in a 4-4-2 this past weekend and did what he normally does and tracked back using speed to force a takeaway https://youtu.be/Cti-nIOnmkA?si=Nbyoo0Lou2IBJl5h when he's confident he will do stuff like that 4 or 5 times a game but he just seems off. They three more trainings and then are taking 3 weeks off for the holiday and then a couple smaller showcases and regular season games so maybe that will get him back on track.

 

[SwampDawg]

Had a surprise last minute friendly the other night against the Philadelphia Union Academy's U19 Development Squad. Really fun watching that level of soccer, I mean ECNL is pretty solid but the quick passing with perfect weight and touch by those kids was cool to see. But I guess when you train 6 hours a day it is to be expected. Our boys gave a solid effort, we lost 2-0 but we had a couple good looks where we got behind their defense and should have finished at least one if not both. They definitely looked better in the second half once they got used to the level of play.

 

[The Z Machine]

Had a surprise last minute friendly the other night against the Philadelphia Union Academy's U19 Development Squad. Really fun watching that level of soccer, I mean ECNL is pretty solid but the quick passing with perfect weight and touch by those kids was cool to see. But I guess when you train 6 hours a day it is to be expected. Our boys gave a solid effort, we lost 2-0 but we had a couple good looks where we got behind their defense and should have finished at least one if not both. They definitely looked better in the second half once they got used to the level of play.

Cool to see your son playing against likely soon-to-be pros.

 

[Chadstroma]

Question for you soccer guys...

I have a kid on my basketball team whose primary sport has been soccer for quite a while. He is an athletic kid and making progress in basketball this season. One thing that drives me up the wall though is that, without fail, he will get a pass near top of the key or to the side of it and immediately dribble in a long arch around to the side and then either pass or shoot. It doesn't matter if there is a lane in front of him to the basket or anything else going on. I have coached him on this numerous times and he still does it.... except once when he drove to the basket and I almost ran on the court to hug him.

As I been trying to figure out how to get him to stop doing this... it dawned on me, maybe this is from soccer and that is how he thinks as that has been and still is his top focus for sports. Is that a possibility? Is that a tactic or typical thing in soccer where you kind of attack the sides of the net versus attack straight on or something? I feel like if I can pinpoint why he is so stubborn on this that maybe I can coach him out of it.

Thoughts?

 

[The Z Machine]

Here's an update on the club situation for my son. The coaches want to take this group (named "Dominators") to the next level and turn the rec league all stars into a travel team. Note that the "club" is actually 2 teams, birth year 2013 and 2014. I'm going to post the email that was sent out. The full google doc I won't link.

My wife is not best pleased about this, as she never wanted to be involved in any travel team for any kid sport, ever. I'd like to give my son the opportunity to develop and build strong friendships around his preferred sport.

------
Happy New Year, Dominators!

<The Coaches> have been reflecting on 2023 and starting to plan for the coming year of continued growth and excellence for our Dominators. We're really excited about what these kids could do and wanted to share some of our ideas and get your feedback.

A long-form description of our thinking is in this Google Doc <redacted>

Here are the highlights:

• We think both teams would benefit from playing in the Central Maryland Soccer Association (CMSA) travel league in the fall. Games would be within a 45 minute drive. It is possible for players to do both rec league and CMSA.
• Likely tournament schedule: March 9-10 Amanda Post Memorial Tournament (Columbia, MD), June 8 Ocean City Sand Duels, July 3v3 tournament (Columbia, MD), October Columbus Day tournament (Columbia, MD), November Fallston Cup, December Southampton Cup.
• Practice 2x per week
• Spring workout opportunities on Sunday mornings at Banner Field (9:30-11a, starting in February)
• All practice and games built on a development-first philosophy
• Open tryouts (date TBD)

Please take a look at the full document, because it has a lot more about our philosophy, goals, and approach.

And if you would, please, email me back ASAP with:

1. Are you interested/available for the March 9-10 Amanda Post tournament? Cost = ~$75/player
2. Are you interested in being on a Dominators sand soccer team? Cost = ~$100/player + your hotel, etc.

Feel free to email us with any thoughts, questions, concerns, etc. But we also want to have an open discussion about this, with everyone. To that end, we're going to host a Zoom meeting on Monday evening, 1/15 at 7:30p. And for anyone who's interested in continuing the conversation over beers, we'll do a family-friendly happy hour gathering on Friday, 1/19.

Thanks for your support the last couple of seasons. This is such a great group of kids and parents, and we want to keep it rolling!
-----
Some other info from the Google Doc:

• Playing time will be relatively even – everyone sits the bench sometimes, including sometimes more technically advanced players, even in high-leverage situations. Every player deserves a chance to be the hero.
• Players will play a variety of positions over the course of a game and the season. That includes everyone getting a turn at goalie. Two reasons. First, to “walk a mile in another man’s shoes” – everyone needs to understand what it’s like to be the last line of defense, and that letting in a goal is not the end of the world. Second, in the modern game, a goalie doesn’t just stand back, make saves, and boot the ball up the field – teams need to be able to use the goalie as another player to move and distribute the ball confidently.
• We will be “building out of the back” a lot. At the club and high school level (and beyond), the modern game involves a controlled and confident build-out from the defensive third – after winning the ball, defenders dribble and pass to develop the attack, with goalies actively involved in that attack as well. Often, coaches will put their most technically skilled and confident players in defensive positions. This is a possession-based, positional strategy designed to…(1) From the perspective of that particular game, it is supposed to promote your team maintaining possession longer and playing more high-percentage passes; (2) From the perspective of overall player development, it encourages defenders to build confidence when playing under pressure, it encourages midfielders to build skill in creating options for the player with the ball, and it encourages forwards to develop a “two plays ahead” mindset.

2024 Overview​

Winter/Spring - Conditioning Phase​

• 90-minute workout on Sunday morning at Banner/Latrobe – fitness & agility, technical training, scrimmage
• Homework – running, ball mastery drills, watching soccer
• Amanda Post Tournament – March 9-10 – Columbia, MD
• Play baseball, learn about failure

Summer - Prep Phase​

• June & July – continue 90-minute workouts on Sunday morning at Banner/Latrobe
• August – begin 2x/week practices
• Homework – running, ball mastery drills, watching soccer
• Sand Duels
• SST 3v3 tournament
• Swim, build fitness

Fall - Play Phase​

• 2013s: 2x/week Dominators practice, league games, tournaments
• 2014/2015s: 1x/week Dominators practice, 1x/week SBYSL practice, league games, tournaments
• Homework – running, ball mastery drills, watching soccer
• Central Maryland Soccer Association league games
  • ?#? games, primarily on Saturdays
  • End-of-season tournament
  • Home games at Swann Park (hopefully)
  • Away games within 45-minute drive
• Tournaments:
  • SAC Columbus Day
  • Fallston Cup
  • Southampton Cup

 

[The Z Machine]

Question for you soccer guys...

I have a kid on my basketball team whose primary sport has been soccer for quite a while. He is an athletic kid and making progress in basketball this season. One thing that drives me up the wall though is that, without fail, he will get a pass near top of the key or to the side of it and immediately dribble in a long arch around to the side and then either pass or shoot. It doesn't matter if there is a lane in front of him to the basket or anything else going on. I have coached him on this numerous times and he still does it.... except once when he drove to the basket and I almost ran on the court to hug him.

As I been trying to figure out how to get him to stop doing this... it dawned on me, maybe this is from soccer and that is how he thinks as that has been and still is his top focus for sports. Is that a possibility? Is that a tactic or typical thing in soccer where you kind of attack the sides of the net versus attack straight on or something? I feel like if I can pinpoint why he is so stubborn on this that maybe I can coach him out of it.

Thoughts?

Yes, in soccer, he'd be looking to cross into the box. Basically, dribble to near the end line and pass the ball to a player trailing you that is more central so that they can shoot. He's also likely got the soccer offsides rule in his head where he doesn't want to pass the ball forward to a teammate that's in an offsides position. But there's obviously no offsides in basketball, and it's an effective play to get the ball in closer to the hoop.

I think you can coach it out of him. Maybe set up some specific drills where he has to find the player in the post or cutting towards the basket. Maybe put tape on the court and say he can't dribble outside of these lines so he can't get to the baseline? I dunno, I'm not a coach.

 

[SwampDawg]

Question for you soccer guys...

I have a kid on my basketball team whose primary sport has been soccer for quite a while. He is an athletic kid and making progress in basketball this season. One thing that drives me up the wall though is that, without fail, he will get a pass near top of the key or to the side of it and immediately dribble in a long arch around to the side and then either pass or shoot. It doesn't matter if there is a lane in front of him to the basket or anything else going on. I have coached him on this numerous times and he still does it.... except once when he drove to the basket and I almost ran on the court to hug him.

As I been trying to figure out how to get him to stop doing this... it dawned on me, maybe this is from soccer and that is how he thinks as that has been and still is his top focus for sports. Is that a possibility? Is that a tactic or typical thing in soccer where you kind of attack the sides of the net versus attack straight on or something? I feel like if I can pinpoint why he is so stubborn on this that maybe I can coach him out of it.

Thoughts?

As The Z Machine said it could be the idea of crossing in soccer and that is what he is use to. It also could just be his personality that he is not an attacking type player. Do you know what his primary position is in soccer? My son when he was playing Baseball, Basketball and Soccer at a younger age was always very defensive minded. In basketball he was their best defender and often leading rebounder despite usually being the shortest kid on the floor. But despite being very quick he didn't look to drive and score, he was happier passing and getting the ball to the kids that were really good at scoring. Not to say he never shot or attacked but it was his third or fourth thought. It's also the reason he is an outside defender in soccer, every new coach he would get tried to turn him into a wing because of his speed and skill but he would always fade back to defend. It took him getting to a high enough level where everyone was skilled and coaches that knew how to use his instincts in a position that also used his talents. Now at 17 he has learned how to play offense over the past few years because he knows he needs to depending on the formation and he is very capable of doing it but it isn't what he feels most natural doing.

 

[SwampDawg]

Here's an update on the club situation for my son. The coaches want to take this group (named "Dominators") to the next level and turn the rec league all stars into a travel team. Note that the "club" is actually 2 teams, birth year 2013 and 2014. I'm going to post the email that was sent out. The full google doc I won't link.

My wife is not best pleased about this, as she never wanted to be involved in any travel team for any kid sport, ever. I'd like to give my son the opportunity to develop and build strong friendships around his preferred sport.

I think what you posted sounds very reasonable a next step to see if that is what he wants his focus to be. While it is travel it isn't a crazy amount. Honestly where we live our kids naturally moved to a league like you described starting at U9 if they wanted to continue to play because there was no true "rec" league unless you wanted to also drive 30 minutes to a program in a bigger area. Practice schedule is reasonable to still allow for other things in his life but still enough to weed out those that aren't really interested.

The only thing I would disagree with at all is the every kid playing goalie. So the 2013's are U11, usually by then kids know if they have an interest in being a keeper and the mentality. Not saying it hurts in practice or a blow out game to try some other kids or if a kid says hey I'd like to try it sure give him a shot. But it takes a special type of person to be able to shake off giving up a goal and to be vocal back there. I wouldn't force kids to do on some sort of planned rotation. Let the kids that have a interest in it develop, it will make the team better and everyone else better.

Best of luck with the wife. Mine was always supportive of any time my son moved to a higher level but also apprehensive of the travel, time and costs but as that became his circle of friends and thus the parents ours as well it became normal. She says now that when he heads to college after next year she's not sure what we will do and when will we see this person and that.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Here's an update on the club situation for my son. The coaches want to take this group (named "Dominators") to the next level and turn the rec league all stars into a travel team. Note that the "club" is actually 2 teams, birth year 2013 and 2014. I'm going to post the email that was sent out. The full google doc I won't link.

My wife is not best pleased about this, as she never wanted to be involved in any travel team for any kid sport, ever. I'd like to give my son the opportunity to develop and build strong friendships around his preferred sport.

I think what you posted sounds very reasonable a next step to see if that is what he wants his focus to be. While it is travel it isn't a crazy amount. Honestly where we live our kids naturally moved to a league like you described starting at U9 if they wanted to continue to play because there was no true "rec" league unless you wanted to also drive 30 minutes to a program in a bigger area. Practice schedule is reasonable to still allow for other things in his life but still enough to weed out those that aren't really interested.

The only thing I would disagree with at all is the every kid playing goalie. So the 2013's are U11, usually by then kids know if they have an interest in being a keeper and the mentality. Not saying it hurts in practice or a blow out game to try some other kids or if a kid says hey I'd like to try it sure give him a shot. But it takes a special type of person to be able to shake off giving up a goal and to be vocal back there. I wouldn't force kids to do on some sort of planned rotation. Let the kids that have a interest in it develop, it will make the team better and everyone else better.

Best of luck with the wife. Mine was always supportive of any time my son moved to a higher level but also apprehensive of the travel, time and costs but as that became his circle of friends and thus the parents ours as well it became normal. She says now that when he heads to college after next year she's not sure what we will do and when will we see this person and that.

Swamp is on point on many fronts. By U11, kids should be dialed in to one or two positions, and likely a striker/winger, winger/midfielder, midfielder/defender, and goalie/X position combo. And this doesn't sound like a travel team really, at least for the Bay Area. My son plays competition soccer (as opposed to rec) and we travel up to an hour for games and 90 minutes for tournaments. The true Bay Area travel teams are getting on planes to go to Vegas, San Diego and Phoenix. Maybe if the team never called it a travel team, your wife would have been more amenable? "Travel team" sounds stressful and expensive.

 

[Chadstroma]

Question for you soccer guys...

I have a kid on my basketball team whose primary sport has been soccer for quite a while. He is an athletic kid and making progress in basketball this season. One thing that drives me up the wall though is that, without fail, he will get a pass near top of the key or to the side of it and immediately dribble in a long arch around to the side and then either pass or shoot. It doesn't matter if there is a lane in front of him to the basket or anything else going on. I have coached him on this numerous times and he still does it.... except once when he drove to the basket and I almost ran on the court to hug him.

As I been trying to figure out how to get him to stop doing this... it dawned on me, maybe this is from soccer and that is how he thinks as that has been and still is his top focus for sports. Is that a possibility? Is that a tactic or typical thing in soccer where you kind of attack the sides of the net versus attack straight on or something? I feel like if I can pinpoint why he is so stubborn on this that maybe I can coach him out of it.

Thoughts?

Yes, in soccer, he'd be looking to cross into the box. Basically, dribble to near the end line and pass the ball to a player trailing you that is more central so that they can shoot. He's also likely got the soccer offsides rule in his head where he doesn't want to pass the ball forward to a teammate that's in an offsides position. But there's obviously no offsides in basketball, and it's an effective play to get the ball in closer to the hoop.

I think you can coach it out of him. Maybe set up some specific drills where he has to find the player in the post or cutting towards the basket. Maybe put tape on the court and say he can't dribble outside of these lines so he can't get to the baseline? I dunno, I'm not a coach.

He is left handed and a majority of our plays start on the right side of the court (it doesn't have to but all the other boys favor it I think because they are right handed) so I was thinking that that was the majority of the issue but there were plenty of times that there was no pressure and an wide open lane and he would still automatically out it down, dribble in an arch to the other side and either shoot or pass once he arrived to the other side.

You are not a coach but that helps me get my ideas shaped a little better! Appreciate it!

 

[Chadstroma]

Question for you soccer guys...

I have a kid on my basketball team whose primary sport has been soccer for quite a while. He is an athletic kid and making progress in basketball this season. One thing that drives me up the wall though is that, without fail, he will get a pass near top of the key or to the side of it and immediately dribble in a long arch around to the side and then either pass or shoot. It doesn't matter if there is a lane in front of him to the basket or anything else going on. I have coached him on this numerous times and he still does it.... except once when he drove to the basket and I almost ran on the court to hug him.

As I been trying to figure out how to get him to stop doing this... it dawned on me, maybe this is from soccer and that is how he thinks as that has been and still is his top focus for sports. Is that a possibility? Is that a tactic or typical thing in soccer where you kind of attack the sides of the net versus attack straight on or something? I feel like if I can pinpoint why he is so stubborn on this that maybe I can coach him out of it.

Thoughts?

As The Z Machine said it could be the idea of crossing in soccer and that is what he is use to. It also could just be his personality that he is not an attacking type player. Do you know what his primary position is in soccer? My son when he was playing Baseball, Basketball and Soccer at a younger age was always very defensive minded. In basketball he was their best defender and often leading rebounder despite usually being the shortest kid on the floor. But despite being very quick he didn't look to drive and score, he was happier passing and getting the ball to the kids that were really good at scoring. Not to say he never shot or attacked but it was his third or fourth thought. It's also the reason he is an outside defender in soccer, every new coach he would get tried to turn him into a wing because of his speed and skill but he would always fade back to defend. It took him getting to a high enough level where everyone was skilled and coaches that knew how to use his instincts in a position that also used his talents. Now at 17 he has learned how to play offense over the past few years because he knows he needs to depending on the formation and he is very capable of doing it but it isn't what he feels most natural doing.

He is one of the better soccer players. I don't know much about what he does for the club team he is on but on the school team he is one of the.... forwards? One of the guys nearest to the opponent's net and one of our better scorers. He is pretty quick/fast athlete with above average height on a thin frame. For our basketball team, he has excelled at steals, leading the team. He anticipates the opponents passes really well and gets a ton of steals intercepting them.

He is very much not aggressive though which is what I originally thought the problem was... then I thought it was him favoring his left hand... but then the soccer thought occurred to me.... and to be honest, I think it is a combo of all three. His instinct, when he gets a rebound is to retreat back towards three point line and turn and try a mid range shot versus attacking down low and it doesn't even matter if there are defenders on him or not. He talks very softly to the point that pretty much every time he talks at practice I have to say "I can't hear you" and he repeats it a tad louder and I have to repeat "I can't hear you" and we do that several times. Even though he is above average height and very athletic, he doesn't get a lot of rebounds... not nearly as much as he should and that is largely due to his lack of aggressiveness. This is my first year with him and the first practice I told him that my biggest goal for him this season is to get more aggressive.

In soccer, he is fairly aggressive. Not overly so but he will attack the net when he gets the ball.... he passes too so he isn't too aggressive in soccer.

He has been working on his shot with some good progression and scored... 8 points in a game last week where he was 4 for 4 so I have seen him get some more confidence in his shot. I just need to break this need to automatically dribble to the far side of the court and shoot or pass when he gets to the end.

 

[The Z Machine]

Interestingly, there are a lot of boys on my son's team that are learning basketball too. I can see it improve their game in soccer where they are better at sheilding the soccer ball with their body than most other kids. They also put themselves in good defensive positions to force attackers wider than they want to go or don't let the opposition get to the ball before it goes out of bounds.

My point is that the 2 sports can absolutely play off each other for situational awareness, body control, field vision, not to mention the quickness, change of direction, etc. that can improve too.

 

[The Z Machine]

Here's an update on the club situation for my son. The coaches want to take this group (named "Dominators") to the next level and turn the rec league all stars into a travel team. Note that the "club" is actually 2 teams, birth year 2013 and 2014. I'm going to post the email that was sent out. The full google doc I won't link.

My wife is not best pleased about this, as she never wanted to be involved in any travel team for any kid sport, ever. I'd like to give my son the opportunity to develop and build strong friendships around his preferred sport.

I think what you posted sounds very reasonable a next step to see if that is what he wants his focus to be. While it is travel it isn't a crazy amount. Honestly where we live our kids naturally moved to a league like you described starting at U9 if they wanted to continue to play because there was no true "rec" league unless you wanted to also drive 30 minutes to a program in a bigger area. Practice schedule is reasonable to still allow for other things in his life but still enough to weed out those that aren't really interested.

The only thing I would disagree with at all is the every kid playing goalie. So the 2013's are U11, usually by then kids know if they have an interest in being a keeper and the mentality. Not saying it hurts in practice or a blow out game to try some other kids or if a kid says hey I'd like to try it sure give him a shot. But it takes a special type of person to be able to shake off giving up a goal and to be vocal back there. I wouldn't force kids to do on some sort of planned rotation. Let the kids that have a interest in it develop, it will make the team better and everyone else better.

Best of luck with the wife. Mine was always supportive of any time my son moved to a higher level but also apprehensive of the travel, time and costs but as that became his circle of friends and thus the parents ours as well it became normal. She says now that when he heads to college after next year she's not sure what we will do and when will we see this person and that.

Swamp is on point on many fronts. By U11, kids should be dialed in to one or two positions, and likely a striker/winger, winger/midfielder, midfielder/defender, and goalie/X position combo. And this doesn't sound like a travel team really, at least for the Bay Area. My son plays competition soccer (as opposed to rec) and we travel up to an hour for games and 90 minutes for tournaments. The true Bay Area travel teams are getting on planes to go to Vegas, San Diego and Phoenix. Maybe if the team never called it a travel team, your wife would have been more amenable? "Travel team" sounds stressful and expensive.

Thanks for the input, guys. I agree on the goalie thing. Not really sure where that came from as the 2013 team has 1 dedicated goalie that really only plays that position. There's 2-3 other kids that will put on the gloves, but they are better field players.

Also agree on positions. There are players at U11 that you know won't be strikers or central defenders or central midfielders. My son is likely never going to play centrally on a competitive team. He doesn't have the ball hawking instincts to do it effectively. Maybe a central attacking MF role or 2nd striker, but I'm not sure if those are used much in youth soccer. I know in the pros, a true #10 is a "luxury position".

I think my wife will come around to it. It will help that my son is likely going to middle school (grade 6) at a new school located where his soccer and practices will be. I think it will be pretty easy for him to hang out after school, then get a ride (or walk) to practice and the one of us pick him up or he gets a ride from a family that lives close by our house. On this "Dominators" team, there are like 3 of 11 kids that live on our side of town, and the other 8 live near the practice location.

 

[The Z Machine]

The true Bay Area travel teams are getting on planes to go to Vegas, San Diego and Phoenix. Maybe if the team never called it a travel team

That sounds terrible. I can't see how that's good for the development of the soccer player. It feels like it's just trying to improve the status of the club and that the coaches are angling for the "next step up".

Who are the coaches for your son's "competition" team? Some dads? Former D-1 players? Pro coaches with licenses?

This "club" is being organized primarily by 2 dads that have college level athletics experience. One of them played soccer in college, the other, baseball. The baseball player had to choose between soccer and baseball when going to a D-1 school. His son a crazy gifted athlete.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

The true Bay Area travel teams are getting on planes to go to Vegas, San Diego and Phoenix. Maybe if the team never called it a travel team

That sounds terrible. I can't see how that's good for the development of the soccer player. It feels like it's just trying to improve the status of the club and that the coaches are angling for the "next step up".

Who are the coaches for your son's "competition" team? Some dads? Former D-1 players? Pro coaches with licenses?

This "club" is being organized primarily by 2 dads that have college level athletics experience. One of them played soccer in college, the other, baseball. The baseball player had to choose between soccer and baseball when going to a D-1 school. His son a crazy gifted athlete.

Yeah it's an interesting dynamic around here. There are numerous soccer gradations even at the U9, U10, U11 range.

Rec is the lowest level, and least demanding. Coaches are volunteer parents for games and practices. Dads get a little training from the professional organization that supports the competition side.

Comp is the next level, and moderately demanding. A professional organization provides the coaches, including a coaching director and assistant director (who double as coaches). Most of the coaches are recruited from the UK and come with UEFA A, B and lower licenses, and several are straight out of a sports oriented masters program. Practices are 2x/week and ~20 games take place in fall and spring (fall is main season). Tournaments and State Cup are in the fall.I supplement my son's soccer with some winter league play (futsal) and 1:1 coaching and as much guest playing he can get.

There's higher level comp in the area, with more intense practice schedules that are further distances (30 minutes away, sometimes one hour, just for practice (parents carpool). And those teams, as I said, travel far, sometimes on planes.

I can't say whether the kids like it or whether intensive soccer contributes to burnout, but I will say that the kids who do take those paths are VERY impressive soccer players for their age. My son is one of the best players on his competitive team on a number of fronts, but he would struggle on these other teams. He intends to tryout for about 4 different programs this spring just to get a sense for where he stands in local competition. Each of those programs are competition soccer, but at varying levels.

I'll give him about as much as he'll take, but I need to be careful and guard him against himself a bit. I say this having just cleared a room in our basement so he can kick against a wall (house foundation) for an hour when he feels like it. I do wish he liked to watch it more than he does. I think that'll come.

Got him playing flag football this winter. Happy for that.

All kids specialize around here. My daughter, who's 13, has been in gymnastics since she was 3. She hasn't shown interest, skill or desire for much else (ball sports aren't her thing). Both kids ski, and ski well, so that's good. My nieces are tennis and volleyball, intensely.My friends kids are pretty much one-sport kids too, if they've exhibited skill at the competitive level. Otherwise they're playing a few sports at an intramural-like level.

 

[SwampDawg]

Here's an update on the club situation for my son. The coaches want to take this group (named "Dominators") to the next level and turn the rec league all stars into a travel team. Note that the "club" is actually 2 teams, birth year 2013 and 2014. I'm going to post the email that was sent out. The full google doc I won't link.

My wife is not best pleased about this, as she never wanted to be involved in any travel team for any kid sport, ever. I'd like to give my son the opportunity to develop and build strong friendships around his preferred sport.

I think what you posted sounds very reasonable a next step to see if that is what he wants his focus to be. While it is travel it isn't a crazy amount. Honestly where we live our kids naturally moved to a league like you described starting at U9 if they wanted to continue to play because there was no true "rec" league unless you wanted to also drive 30 minutes to a program in a bigger area. Practice schedule is reasonable to still allow for other things in his life but still enough to weed out those that aren't really interested.

The only thing I would disagree with at all is the every kid playing goalie. So the 2013's are U11, usually by then kids know if they have an interest in being a keeper and the mentality. Not saying it hurts in practice or a blow out game to try some other kids or if a kid says hey I'd like to try it sure give him a shot. But it takes a special type of person to be able to shake off giving up a goal and to be vocal back there. I wouldn't force kids to do on some sort of planned rotation. Let the kids that have a interest in it develop, it will make the team better and everyone else better.

Best of luck with the wife. Mine was always supportive of any time my son moved to a higher level but also apprehensive of the travel, time and costs but as that became his circle of friends and thus the parents ours as well it became normal. She says now that when he heads to college after next year she's not sure what we will do and when will we see this person and that.

Swamp is on point on many fronts. By U11, kids should be dialed in to one or two positions, and likely a striker/winger, winger/midfielder, midfielder/defender, and goalie/X position combo. And this doesn't sound like a travel team really, at least for the Bay Area. My son plays competition soccer (as opposed to rec) and we travel up to an hour for games and 90 minutes for tournaments. The true Bay Area travel teams are getting on planes to go to Vegas, San Diego and Phoenix. Maybe if the team never called it a travel team, your wife would have been more amenable? "Travel team" sounds stressful and expensive.

Yea "Travel" means many different things depending on the area and even to different people in the area. The best way to tell what you are getting in for is the sanction/association of the league. There is a fairly clear pyramid at the top but it gets muddy as you go down an may vary state by state there. I'll lay it out on the boys side because that is what I know, girls is slightly different.

1. MLS Next
2. ECNL and National Academy League (east coast only, associated with MLS Next)
3. ECNL-Regional League and USYS Conference Play (run by 3rd party, EDP for North Atlantic; New England; Mid Atlantic and South Atlantic Conferences)
4. US Club Soccer Associated Leagues
5. USYS Affiliate Leagues and Independent Leagues

MLS Next is national and travel from coast to coast, kids are also not allowed to play high school soccer unless a requirement of a private school they attend.

ECNL has national playoffs and national showcases, league play is regional but still multiple states. My son plays on an ECNL team and we are in PA, our league this year consists of PA, MD, DE, NJ but has in the past included MA, CT, NY, RI. We just did a showcase in SC and have done VA, SC and FL in the past. National Academy League is new this year, MLS has forbid associated clubs from also having ECNL teams so on the East Coast this was started as a place for them to move those teams to if they had them. I don't know much about its structure.

ECNL-RL divisions are pretty much the same as the ECNL but their showcases are regional and playoffs are regional as well. USYS Conference Play leagues have their winners qualify to their regional tournaments along with State Cup winners for a chance to qualify for USYS Nationals.

US Club Soccer Leagues (@The Z Machine this is what the CMSA league is) leagues can vary but some leagues will qualify teams to US Club Soccer's playoff path which eventually can lead to a national tournament.

Finally you have your independent leagues and those associated with USYS for things like rules, tournaments and player id cards but are not part of the national playoff structure.

MLS Next and ECNL the entire club needs to be affiliated and compete at that level at each age group in order to be part of it. USYS Conference play and US Club Soccer Leagues usually the whole club is associated but you might have one or two age groups playing at the top level and others at a lower level.

My son has played at everyone of them except MLS Next, our local youth club with dad coaches that he played U9 to U12 with was part of a local league, travel was our county and a couple neighboring counties. U13 he played for a USYS associated club but was on the B team so they played in an associated USYS league, travel was all PA but up to an hour and a half. U14 and U15 he played for a club that played independent league one year and USYS EDP the second year. U15 he also dual rostered with his current club and they played in both US Club League and USYS Conference. They qualified for the US Club Eastern Regional, so league play was all PA and NJ within 2 hours but the Regional was in SC and they came up one game short of qualifying for the final 4 in CO. U16 they played ECNL and USYS Conference, qualified for USYS Regionals in WV. That was the year the ECNL conference included New England so I think we determined he played in 10 states from FL to MA that year. U17 they played ECNL and USYS Conference, qualified for USYS Regionals again and made the semi-finals just short of making Nationals. This year because it is U18/U19 his 06 team is focused on ECNL only and making the playoffs there, they have a separate 05 team doing USYS although they are all duel rostered so they can move a player if needed to fill in. We have done showcases in SC and NJ already and league play will be PA, NJ, MD and the goal is the ECNL playoffs in CA.

So all are "travel" teams but what that entails is very different.

 

[acarey50]

The true Bay Area travel teams are getting on planes to go to Vegas, San Diego and Phoenix. Maybe if the team never called it a travel team

That sounds terrible. I can't see how that's good for the development of the soccer player. It feels like it's just trying to improve the status of the club and that the coaches are angling for the "next step up".

Who are the coaches for your son's "competition" team? Some dads? Former D-1 players? Pro coaches with licenses?

This "club" is being organized primarily by 2 dads that have college level athletics experience. One of them played soccer in college, the other, baseball. The baseball player had to choose between soccer and baseball when going to a D-1 school. His son a crazy gifted athlete.

@SwampDawg covered a lot about some of the different levels of soccer - and there are still more - NPL is in there similar in level to about the ECRL league. My son plays NPL and we've been in tournaments with ECNL, ECRL, etc. and held our own. Our league games will generally by in Orange or Riverside County in SoCal. NPL playoffs are in Denver. Last year we won state cup which qualified us for National Cup which was also in Denver. The only other real travel tournament we'll do is Vegas Cup. Lot of kids working towards wanting to play in college, and soccer is one of the sports that is recruited more through club than it is school, so these large showcases, especially for the higher levels of club, are the primary place where coaches get to see the kids play.

At least locally, all coaches at levels above true rec require higher level coaching licenses - I believe it's usually through US Club Soccer. At least at our son's club and the majority of the one's I've seen with higher level teams, the coaches are primarily professional coaches. Some only coach club for a living, but many are high school or college coaches that also coach club.

Then, at least for our local rec leagues, the volunteer coaches are required to complete the basic coaching certification which is usually just a 1 day course.

 

[SwampDawg]

The true Bay Area travel teams are getting on planes to go to Vegas, San Diego and Phoenix. Maybe if the team never called it a travel team

That sounds terrible. I can't see how that's good for the development of the soccer player. It feels like it's just trying to improve the status of the club and that the coaches are angling for the "next step up".

Who are the coaches for your son's "competition" team? Some dads? Former D-1 players? Pro coaches with licenses?

This "club" is being organized primarily by 2 dads that have college level athletics experience. One of them played soccer in college, the other, baseball. The baseball player had to choose between soccer and baseball when going to a D-1 school. His son a crazy gifted athlete.

@SwampDawg covered a lot about some of the different levels of soccer - and there are still more - NPL is in there similar in level to about the ECRL league. My son plays NPL and we've been in tournaments with ECNL, ECRL, etc. and held our own. Our league games will generally by in Orange or Riverside County in SoCal. NPL playoffs are in Denver. Last year we won state cup which qualified us for National Cup which was also in Denver. The only other real travel tournament we'll do is Vegas Cup. Lot of kids working towards wanting to play in college, and soccer is one of the sports that is recruited more through club than it is school, so these large showcases, especially for the higher levels of club, are the primary place where coaches get to see the kids play.

At least locally, all coaches at levels above true rec require higher level coaching licenses - I believe it's usually through US Club Soccer. At least at our son's club and the majority of the one's I've seen with higher level teams, the coaches are primarily professional coaches. Some only coach club for a living, but many are high school or college coaches that also coach club.

Then, at least for our local rec leagues, the volunteer coaches are required to complete the basic coaching certification which is usually just a 1 day course.

Yea I forgot about NPL, that is actually what we were in at U15 when we came 1 game short of nationals. It gets even more confusing because NPL is the National League but the regional leagues that feed it are separate entities and they come and go, Pennsylvania's folded. State Cups even muddy the water more because on the East Coast they are primarily USYS sanctioned and on the West Coast US Club sanctioned. The good thing for @The Z Machine as for myself and @acarey50 is that we live in areas that have a lot of high quality clubs so you can play a high level and still keep the actual travel within reason. Some places in the midwest or deep south there are sometimes only one or two high level club teams per state so kids drive a couple hours just for training and all competitive games might be in different states and overnight trips. In MD you can do games in PA, DE and VA and still only be within a couple hours.

Also @The Z Machine you mentioned doing the Sand Duels, we did the one in OC NJ, guessing you would be doing MD but it was a blast. My son actually did it when he was still playing for our local club, it poured down one afternoon and by the time they played the beach had these huge puddles the ball would go into and just stop. Kids didn't care it was totally playing just for fun and to have a good time. Plus they got to hang out at the pool and on the beach when not playing.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

My kids will be trying out for travel this spring. They never played soccer or organized sports at all until Feb/March 2023. After the world cup, they were interested in soccer, and have been in some kind of soccer camp or rec league every month since then other than the end of the summer.

My 9-year old isn't great, but loves the sport. Could be a solid defender though, as he isn't scared to get in there and is strong. Hope he makes some level of team and can play.

My 7-year-old is a potential stud though with good coaching. Fast, aggressive, and good instincts.

But I am worried about their confidence and what we are getting ourselves into.

 

[SwampDawg]

Opened up the ECNL league season on Saturday in the rain but the boys earned a 3-2 win. They had a great build up to score at the end of the first half an go up 2-1. 13 passes all on the attacking half of the field. https://youtu.be/qQaMfZGFKWw?si=LGujwarnmf3QVVOW My son is the one who brought the headers down and then made the pass in from the sideline a few touches later.

 

[acarey50]

High school season for my son is done - ended up losing to the eventual State champ in the quarterfinals of CIF - though in CA for soccer "State" ends at the Norcal and SoCal regional level.

Playing in a Vegas Showcase this weekend with his club team, then State Cup starts the week after that. Once State cup is done, unless we qualify for National Cup, my son is planning to "retire" from club soccer to focus on other pursuits and his senior high school season.

 

[SwampDawg]

High school season for my son is done - ended up losing to the eventual State champ in the quarterfinals of CIF - though in CA for soccer "State" ends at the Norcal and SoCal regional level.

Playing in a Vegas Showcase this weekend with his club team, then State Cup starts the week after that. Once State cup is done, unless we qualify for National Cup, my son is planning to "retire" from club soccer to focus on other pursuits and his senior high school season.

What are you going to do with all your free time? lol

We need to have a serious sit down in the next month here and determine if he 100% wants to play in college before the club tryout season starts for next year. He's had some coaches contact him so the chances are there. And personally because he is such a shy kid and not real organized I think it will allow him to integrate himself, meet people and have some structure. That said we've always told him it's his call each year around this time. If he isn't going to pursue it at the collegiate level then I am of the same mind he might as well just enjoy his senior year, save us the money and travel.

 

[acarey50]

High school season for my son is done - ended up losing to the eventual State champ in the quarterfinals of CIF - though in CA for soccer "State" ends at the Norcal and SoCal regional level.

Playing in a Vegas Showcase this weekend with his club team, then State Cup starts the week after that. Once State cup is done, unless we qualify for National Cup, my son is planning to "retire" from club soccer to focus on other pursuits and his senior high school season.

What are you going to do with all your free time? lol

We need to have a serious sit down in the next month here and determine if he 100% wants to play in college before the club tryout season starts for next year. He's had some coaches contact him so the chances are there. And personally because he is such a shy kid and not real organized I think it will allow him to integrate himself, meet people and have some structure. That said we've always told him it's his call each year around this time. If he isn't going to pursue it at the collegiate level then I am of the same mind he might as well just enjoy his senior year, save us the money and travel.

Still have the youngest one, but since he tore his ACL in October, this year is almost all going to be rehab and maybe start basketball back up in October/November time frame, but no football until sometime in 2025. He's "retired" from soccer.

The high schooler (similar to my college freshman) has known for a while that he did not really want to play in college, especially once he locked in on going down the pathway of being a pilot and most likely going from high school to the airline academies in lieu of a traditional 4 year college first. All along he had said if he did do college, much like my older, he would play if that is what got him into the school he wanted to go to and would help pay for it. Oldest had some interest from schools for football and college, but not at the school he wanted to go to, and once he got in there and got into the honors college, he was for sure out on college athletics and instead focused on academics, social life and intramural athletics.

Either way, going to be a lot of free weekends in the near future

 

[Chadstroma]

I mentioned before that it seemed that soccer was much less popular than the other school sports we have in our Catholic school leagues. It seems it is even worse this year. Apparently the only way that they could move forward with a league this year was to make it co-ed. I really don't know why they struggle to fill these teams and have schools participate when it is two grades combined (3-4, 5-6 and 7-8). Last year, the 5-6 for our school didn't have enough to field a team and then this year they sent out a message saying the only way they could field enough teams was to go co-ed and if they student still wanted to play. I wondered if my son would not want to play and opt for volleyball or track instead (I was surprised he passed on track this year to begin with) but he did want to stay with soccer. I heard a couple of soccer better soccer players opted out but have not confirmed that.

It is very interesting as football doesn't have this issue typically and basketball certainly does not (the league we just won a championship for our grade has 40 teams in it- our school contributed 3 teams to it and many schools had 2 teams). Just very odd.

 

[The Z Machine]

I mentioned before that it seemed that soccer was much less popular than the other school sports we have in our Catholic school leagues. It seems it is even worse this year. Apparently the only way that they could move forward with a league this year was to make it co-ed. I really don't know why they struggle to fill these teams and have schools participate when it is two grades combined (3-4, 5-6 and 7-8). Last year, the 5-6 for our school didn't have enough to field a team and then this year they sent out a message saying the only way they could field enough teams was to go co-ed and if they student still wanted to play. I wondered if my son would not want to play and opt for volleyball or track instead (I was surprised he passed on track this year to begin with) but he did want to stay with soccer. I heard a couple of soccer better soccer players opted out but have not confirmed that.

It is very interesting as football doesn't have this issue typically and basketball certainly does not (the league we just won a championship for our grade has 40 teams in it- our school contributed 3 teams to it and many schools had 2 teams). Just very odd.

I wonder if the soccer crazy kids are all playing club / travel ball.

 

[Chadstroma]

I mentioned before that it seemed that soccer was much less popular than the other school sports we have in our Catholic school leagues. It seems it is even worse this year. Apparently the only way that they could move forward with a league this year was to make it co-ed. I really don't know why they struggle to fill these teams and have schools participate when it is two grades combined (3-4, 5-6 and 7-8). Last year, the 5-6 for our school didn't have enough to field a team and then this year they sent out a message saying the only way they could field enough teams was to go co-ed and if they student still wanted to play. I wondered if my son would not want to play and opt for volleyball or track instead (I was surprised he passed on track this year to begin with) but he did want to stay with soccer. I heard a couple of soccer better soccer players opted out but have not confirmed that.

It is very interesting as football doesn't have this issue typically and basketball certainly does not (the league we just won a championship for our grade has 40 teams in it- our school contributed 3 teams to it and many schools had 2 teams). Just very odd.

I wonder if the soccer crazy kids are all playing club / travel ball.

I know on our team they would play both. I wondered about this. I can see two potential reasons to not play because of club/travel.
1. Schedule conflicts
2. Competition being 'below' them

For schedule issues, it really isn't much of an issue at least on our team. Multiple players play club/travel soccer and then play on the school team. Practice wise, we basically don't practice as the fields are usually not in good condition or it is raining etc. But even if the weather is great, they don't schedule a lot. Then there is one game on a weekend. Sooooooo much laid back and easy compared to football and basketball.

So, it could be that they don't see it worthwhile? I guess that could make sense. Soccer isn't the top sport for my son so it isn't even a question but even if he was, my thing would be to let him play with his friends and enjoy it. You don't always have to be cut throat about the sports you are serious in. Let the kid play and have fun if it is 'below' them.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I mentioned before that it seemed that soccer was much less popular than the other school sports we have in our Catholic school leagues. It seems it is even worse this year. Apparently the only way that they could move forward with a league this year was to make it co-ed. I really don't know why they struggle to fill these teams and have schools participate when it is two grades combined (3-4, 5-6 and 7-8). Last year, the 5-6 for our school didn't have enough to field a team and then this year they sent out a message saying the only way they could field enough teams was to go co-ed and if they student still wanted to play. I wondered if my son would not want to play and opt for volleyball or track instead (I was surprised he passed on track this year to begin with) but he did want to stay with soccer. I heard a couple of soccer better soccer players opted out but have not confirmed that.

It is very interesting as football doesn't have this issue typically and basketball certainly does not (the league we just won a championship for our grade has 40 teams in it- our school contributed 3 teams to it and many schools had 2 teams). Just very odd.

I wonder if the soccer crazy kids are all playing club / travel ball.

The trend is moving in one direction only. My son's (catholic) high school is absolutely dominant in soccer over the last 20 years but when he was a senior last year they had several of the top players opt out of the school team to focus on their clubs. I've heard similar stories on the girls side as well - top players missing games for their school teams during the state tournament to play games for their clubs. I would say the circumstance @Chadstroma describes is similar to where I live. Our local grade schools don't have much in the way of soccer and my kids' Catholic school leagues did not have any soccer available through middle school, but there are thousands of kids playing club soccer here at that age.

 

[Chadstroma]

I mentioned before that it seemed that soccer was much less popular than the other school sports we have in our Catholic school leagues. It seems it is even worse this year. Apparently the only way that they could move forward with a league this year was to make it co-ed. I really don't know why they struggle to fill these teams and have schools participate when it is two grades combined (3-4, 5-6 and 7-8). Last year, the 5-6 for our school didn't have enough to field a team and then this year they sent out a message saying the only way they could field enough teams was to go co-ed and if they student still wanted to play. I wondered if my son would not want to play and opt for volleyball or track instead (I was surprised he passed on track this year to begin with) but he did want to stay with soccer. I heard a couple of soccer better soccer players opted out but have not confirmed that.

It is very interesting as football doesn't have this issue typically and basketball certainly does not (the league we just won a championship for our grade has 40 teams in it- our school contributed 3 teams to it and many schools had 2 teams). Just very odd.

I wonder if the soccer crazy kids are all playing club / travel ball.

The trend is moving in one direction only. My son's (catholic) high school is absolutely dominant in soccer over the last 20 years but when he was a senior last year they had several of the top players opt out of the school team to focus on their clubs. I've heard similar stories on the girls side as well - top players missing games for their school teams during the state tournament to play games for their clubs. I would say the circumstance @Chadstroma describes is similar to where I live. Our local grade schools don't have much in the way of soccer and my kids' Catholic school leagues did not have any soccer available through middle school, but there are thousands of kids playing club soccer here at that age.

I have been hearing it among numerous sports where elite or wannabe elite athletes have been trending away from HS sport to play club/travel. I can somewhat understand this depending on the situation and apparently the way things have shifted is that recruiting for college seems to have focused on club/travel more than it use to be.

For Jr High and grade school... I don't get it. Even more so when it isn't like there is a ton of conflict and on top of that... how many kids are truly 'elite' that they must focus 100% on club/travel like it is a job. (not to mention the argument that you are setting the kid up for eventual failure in burn out by having that kind of focus)

For football, that is a different sport. You can't play for two teams. Basketball, tons of kids play school and then club/travel. Three of my starters played club and on our team. My son would do the same if not for him already doing club swim. And that was very doable even though there was some conflict. I know other teams had kids that played club basketball and maybe not as much during the season for their school and then made the playoffs a priority. But for school, it seems like a complete abandoning of it.

 

[The Z Machine]

For Jr High and grade school... I don't get it. Even more so when it isn't like there is a ton of conflict and on top of that... how many kids are truly 'elite' that they must focus 100% on club/travel like it is a job. (not to mention the argument that you are setting the kid up for eventual failure in burn out by having that kind of focus)

It's a combination of a few things: 1) ******** money grabs by clubs extracting wealth from parents that can afford it, 2) the reality that for some sports if you don't develop fundamental techniques and get millions of reps/touches early on, you'll never truly be elite. Simply put, there are too many kids all over the world that eat, sleep, breathe soccer and basketball that if a kid is a part timer until age 15, they will never be a pro.

 

[NewlyRetired]

For Jr High and grade school... I don't get it. Even more so when it isn't like there is a ton of conflict and on top of that... how many kids are truly 'elite' that they must focus 100% on club/travel like it is a job. (not to mention the argument that you are setting the kid up for eventual failure in burn out by having that kind of focus)

It's a combination of a few things: 1) ******** money grabs by clubs extracting wealth from parents that can afford it, 2) the reality that for some sports if you don't develop fundamental techniques and get millions of reps/touches early on, you'll never truly be elite. Simply put, there are too many kids all over the world that eat, sleep, breathe soccer and basketball that if a kid is a part timer until age 15, they will never be a pro.

it is also worth noting that for soccer in the US, the primary path to being a pro is no longer college. Those days are gone.

The path to being a pro is very clear now.

Play club
Get recognize by better/bigger club and get recruited to join
Better club plays in bigger competition's that are scouted by the biggest academies (USL and MLS)
The academies siphon off the best talent from the better/bigger club teams
The best of the best then compete with in an academy to be signed as a home grown player either in MLS or the big USL clubs
The player starts working up the ranks from the lower reserve youth teams to the main club. Obviously most don't advance to main club

Most of the players that don't get past the academy level typically can get a college scholarship where for 99% of those that go the college path, the dream of pro soccer will then die.

Note that almost all academies and many club teams forbid their players from playing high school soccer.

 

[Chadstroma]

For Jr High and grade school... I don't get it. Even more so when it isn't like there is a ton of conflict and on top of that... how many kids are truly 'elite' that they must focus 100% on club/travel like it is a job. (not to mention the argument that you are setting the kid up for eventual failure in burn out by having that kind of focus)

It's a combination of a few things: 1) ******** money grabs by clubs extracting wealth from parents that can afford it, 2) the reality that for some sports if you don't develop fundamental techniques and get millions of reps/touches early on, you'll never truly be elite. Simply put, there are too many kids all over the world that eat, sleep, breathe soccer and basketball that if a kid is a part timer until age 15, they will never be a pro.

All sports have been bombarded with money grabs for sure. From private coaches to camps/clinics to facilities popping up and then you have clubs that operate solely as a business rather than an organization that is working with children. Some of it is good and can be helpful but I think we have all seen or hear of instances of it not being so.

I am focusing more on grade school here and for a school league. Some kids that are pretty good play on the teams and then there are kids that are not good at all that play on them as well. Even if the 'elite' talent decide to not play because it is beneath them or they focus on club or whatever the case may be... I am not understanding why the numbers are still so low from all the kids that are average. I do wonder if as they get older, kids that are not very good drop out because of lack of interest and/or they know they are not good and/or lack of playing time. I am just really taken aback that soccer can't field teams while there is no issue with football, basketball and the school also has cross country, volleyball, track, and golf and as far as I know they have not had any issues with having enough kids for any of those.

I know nothing about soccer and how it works and the pathway to pro etc specifically for soccer. So, I won't say one way or another with soccer and this is more about sports in general. With most other pro sports, the majority of professionals were multi sport athletes up through HS. I have seen a ton of data that suggest being one sport athletes does not necessarily give an advantage over a multi sport athlete and that the chances of injury and burn out dramatically increase when they are one sport athletes versus multi sport athletes. I tend to wince when I hear how focused kids have to be on a sport to have a prayer of being a pro. This may not be you saying that and what some think or act like out there but it is something that makes me nervous when I come across it. I am a big proponent of multi sports.

 

[Chadstroma]

For Jr High and grade school... I don't get it. Even more so when it isn't like there is a ton of conflict and on top of that... how many kids are truly 'elite' that they must focus 100% on club/travel like it is a job. (not to mention the argument that you are setting the kid up for eventual failure in burn out by having that kind of focus)

It's a combination of a few things: 1) ******** money grabs by clubs extracting wealth from parents that can afford it, 2) the reality that for some sports if you don't develop fundamental techniques and get millions of reps/touches early on, you'll never truly be elite. Simply put, there are too many kids all over the world that eat, sleep, breathe soccer and basketball that if a kid is a part timer until age 15, they will never be a pro.

it is also worth noting that for soccer in the US, the primary path to being a pro is no longer college. Those days are gone.

The path to being a pro is very clear now.

Play club
Get recognize by better/bigger club and get recruited to join
Better club plays in bigger competition's that are scouted by the biggest academies (USL and MLS)
The academies siphon off the best talent from the better/bigger club teams
The best of the best then compete with in an academy to be signed as a home grown player either in MLS or the big USL clubs
The player starts working up the ranks from the lower reserve youth teams to the main club. Obviously most don't advance to main club

Most of the players that don't get past the academy level typically can get a college scholarship where for 99% of those that go the college path, the dream of pro soccer will then die.

Note that almost all academies and many club teams forbid their players from playing high school soccer.

Explain what an Academy is.... are we talking like IMG or is this a whole different ecosystem in soccer?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Explain what an Academy is.... are we talking like IMG or is this a whole different ecosystem in soccer?

At a 5000 foot level, a soccer academy is an extremely formal training and development scheme that pro soccer teams all over the world use to develop players for their pro teams.

Pro teams set up these academies and then scout the best players they are allowed to. Here in the US there are some regional restrictions on where you can recruit from. Most of the academies are free but the kids in these academies are extremely indoctrinated in a pro set up. It is extremely competitive to get in and then even more competitive to stay in the academy. There are many age groups with in an academy (each academy sets these groups as they think best)

Most of the big soccer academies in the country have fabulous facilities as they tend to share the same facilities as the pros. You can imagine the effect on a 14 year old starlet with big dreams can look up at practice and see some one like Messi watching from the sidelines. The integration of the pros with the academy kids is a key part of the development and the training of the kids to have a pro mentality as early as possible and set team culture very early. The best academies around the world train their young players to emulate the exact way the pro team is set up to play.

The best of the best in a US academy system hopes to get signed to what is called a MLS Homegrown contract, which allows them to start receiving a real salary while they work their way up the development ladder.

There are some academies that are so immersive, that they include full schooling into the academy, where the player will leave their own school system and be schooled from with in the academy. It is basically almost a full time commitment.

The Philadelphia Union are currently spending $55m to upgrade their academy set up, which was already quite good. There is a lot of money involved in these things.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I just signed my boys up for 3 different travel tryouts. I think my oldest could end up disappointed and not make a team as these 9-10 year olds can be pretty good and he has only been playing for one year, and isn't great.

My youngest is only 7 and he probably will make a team because he is so fast and has some good instincts.

How do you guys handle disappointment for your kids?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

For Jr High and grade school... I don't get it. Even more so when it isn't like there is a ton of conflict and on top of that... how many kids are truly 'elite' that they must focus 100% on club/travel like it is a job. (not to mention the argument that you are setting the kid up for eventual failure in burn out by having that kind of focus)

It's a combination of a few things: 1) ******** money grabs by clubs extracting wealth from parents that can afford it, 2) the reality that for some sports if you don't develop fundamental techniques and get millions of reps/touches early on, you'll never truly be elite. Simply put, there are too many kids all over the world that eat, sleep, breathe soccer and basketball that if a kid is a part timer until age 15, they will never be a pro.

All sports have been bombarded with money grabs for sure. From private coaches to camps/clinics to facilities popping up and then you have clubs that operate solely as a business rather than an organization that is working with children. Some of it is good and can be helpful but I think we have all seen or hear of instances of it not being so.

I am focusing more on grade school here and for a school league. Some kids that are pretty good play on the teams and then there are kids that are not good at all that play on them as well. Even if the 'elite' talent decide to not play because it is beneath them or they focus on club or whatever the case may be... I am not understanding why the numbers are still so low from all the kids that are average. I do wonder if as they get older, kids that are not very good drop out because of lack of interest and/or they know they are not good and/or lack of playing time. I am just really taken aback that soccer can't field teams while there is no issue with football, basketball and the school also has cross country, volleyball, track, and golf and as far as I know they have not had any issues with having enough kids for any of those.

I know nothing about soccer and how it works and the pathway to pro etc specifically for soccer. So, I won't say one way or another with soccer and this is more about sports in general. With most other pro sports, the majority of professionals were multi sport athletes up through HS. I have seen a ton of data that suggest being one sport athletes does not necessarily give an advantage over a multi sport athlete and that the chances of injury and burn out dramatically increase when they are one sport athletes versus multi sport athletes. I tend to wince when I hear how focused kids have to be on a sport to have a prayer of being a pro. This may not be you saying that and what some think or act like out there but it is something that makes me nervous when I come across it. I am a big proponent of multi sports.

Just from my experience - club soccer at the youth level (5/6 years old through 12) is not at all "elite" where I live. These are rec leagues with thousands of kids playing against each other locally and never traveling more than 20-30 minutes from the club's home fields. Coaches are nearly all volunteer parents and the refs are older kids. As they get a bit older - around middle school or so - they start to have try outs for the "select" teams. But there's always a place for a kid in the rec club system if he wants to play soccer and it is relatively inexpensive. I don't really understand why grade schools don't have a soccer league. We have boys and girls school volleyball league in the fall, basketball over the winter, and track meets in the Spring. That's it for league sports competing against other schools in terms of sports. Its more than I had at that age. League sports competitions among schools only really get going beginning in 9th grade here.

 

[Wrigley]

My youngest daughter was playing on a competitive 14u team as a 10 year old last year

My now 11 year old daughter just got cut from her 5th grade soccer tryouts

She’s crushed(hell, I’m crushed)

1st time coach(2nd year teacher), who’s never coached soccer before, blah blah blah

Work harder kid

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Explain what an Academy is.... are we talking like IMG or is this a whole different ecosystem in soccer?

At a 5000 foot level, a soccer academy is an extremely formal training and development scheme that pro soccer teams all over the world use to develop players for their pro teams.

Pro teams set up these academies and then scout the best players they are allowed to. Here is in the US there are some regional restrictions on where you can recruit from. Most of the academies are free but the kids in these academies are extremely indoctrinated in a pro set up. It is extremely competitive to get in and then even more competitive to stay in the academy. There are many age groups with in an academy (each academy sets these groups as they think best)

Most of the big soccer academies in the country have fabulous facilities as they tend to share the same facilities as the pros. You can imagine the effect on a 14 year old starlet with big dreams can look up at practice and see some one like Messi watching from the sidelines. The integration of the pros with the academy kids is a key part of the development and the training of the kids to have a pro mentality as early as possible and set team culture very early. The best academies around the world train their young players to emulate the exact way the pro team is set up to play.

The best of the best in a US academy system hopes to get signed to what is called a MLS Homegrown contract, which allows them to start receiving a real salary while they work their way up the development ladder.

There are some academies that are so immersive, that they include full schooling into the academy, where the player will leave their own school system and be schooled from with in the academy. It is basically almost a full time commitment.

The Philadelphia Union are currently spending $55m to upgrade their academy set up, which was already quite good. There is a lot of money involved in these things.

I would add that in my experience the term "acadamy" is pretty loosely thrown around. Several clubs in my area call themselves an academy but very few are anywhere near elite. The best kids in my area try to get into one of the few MLS Next youth clubs - list here: https://www.mlssoccer.com/mlsnext/about/members

 

[NewlyRetired]

Explain what an Academy is.... are we talking like IMG or is this a whole different ecosystem in soccer?

At a 5000 foot level, a soccer academy is an extremely formal training and development scheme that pro soccer teams all over the world use to develop players for their pro teams.

Pro teams set up these academies and then scout the best players they are allowed to. Here is in the US there are some regional restrictions on where you can recruit from. Most of the academies are free but the kids in these academies are extremely indoctrinated in a pro set up. It is extremely competitive to get in and then even more competitive to stay in the academy. There are many age groups with in an academy (each academy sets these groups as they think best)

Most of the big soccer academies in the country have fabulous facilities as they tend to share the same facilities as the pros. You can imagine the effect on a 14 year old starlet with big dreams can look up at practice and see some one like Messi watching from the sidelines. The integration of the pros with the academy kids is a key part of the development and the training of the kids to have a pro mentality as early as possible and set team culture very early. The best academies around the world train their young players to emulate the exact way the pro team is set up to play.

The best of the best in a US academy system hopes to get signed to what is called a MLS Homegrown contract, which allows them to start receiving a real salary while they work their way up the development ladder.

There are some academies that are so immersive, that they include full schooling into the academy, where the player will leave their own school system and be schooled from with in the academy. It is basically almost a full time commitment.

The Philadelphia Union are currently spending $55m to upgrade their academy set up, which was already quite good. There is a lot of money involved in these things.

I would add that in my experience the term "academy" is pretty loosely thrown around. Several clubs in my area call themselves an academy but very few are anywhere near elite. The best kids in my area try to get into one of the few MLS Next youth clubs - list here: https://www.mlssoccer.com/mlsnext/about/members

oh yes I agree, this is an important distinction!

When I used the term, I referring to the pro set ups, not the academies that are just trying to make a buck off the naming convention. Many parents won't really understand the difference though.

 

[The Z Machine]

With most other pro sports, the majority of professionals were multi sport athletes up through HS. I have seen a ton of data that suggest being one sport athletes does not necessarily give an advantage over a multi sport athlete and that the chances of injury and burn out dramatically increase when they are one sport athletes versus multi sport athletes.

I think this could be true for football, track, and swimming. It definitely is not true for soccer, where a child needs like a million touches before X age to develop the requisite ball control. Whether they get those touches in local clubs (like Europe), or travel teams (like the USA), or in the street (like Argentina and Brazil), they need those touches.

I think it might be the same for some other sports like tennis and gymnastics. I also wonder if the club+academy thing in Europe is what is allowing more European players to succeed in the NBA. Of course I bet a lot of NBA players got millions of touches in the street too.

 

[Chadstroma]

For Jr High and grade school... I don't get it. Even more so when it isn't like there is a ton of conflict and on top of that... how many kids are truly 'elite' that they must focus 100% on club/travel like it is a job. (not to mention the argument that you are setting the kid up for eventual failure in burn out by having that kind of focus)

It's a combination of a few things: 1) ******** money grabs by clubs extracting wealth from parents that can afford it, 2) the reality that for some sports if you don't develop fundamental techniques and get millions of reps/touches early on, you'll never truly be elite. Simply put, there are too many kids all over the world that eat, sleep, breathe soccer and basketball that if a kid is a part timer until age 15, they will never be a pro.

All sports have been bombarded with money grabs for sure. From private coaches to camps/clinics to facilities popping up and then you have clubs that operate solely as a business rather than an organization that is working with children. Some of it is good and can be helpful but I think we have all seen or hear of instances of it not being so.

I am focusing more on grade school here and for a school league. Some kids that are pretty good play on the teams and then there are kids that are not good at all that play on them as well. Even if the 'elite' talent decide to not play because it is beneath them or they focus on club or whatever the case may be... I am not understanding why the numbers are still so low from all the kids that are average. I do wonder if as they get older, kids that are not very good drop out because of lack of interest and/or they know they are not good and/or lack of playing time. I am just really taken aback that soccer can't field teams while there is no issue with football, basketball and the school also has cross country, volleyball, track, and golf and as far as I know they have not had any issues with having enough kids for any of those.

I know nothing about soccer and how it works and the pathway to pro etc specifically for soccer. So, I won't say one way or another with soccer and this is more about sports in general. With most other pro sports, the majority of professionals were multi sport athletes up through HS. I have seen a ton of data that suggest being one sport athletes does not necessarily give an advantage over a multi sport athlete and that the chances of injury and burn out dramatically increase when they are one sport athletes versus multi sport athletes. I tend to wince when I hear how focused kids have to be on a sport to have a prayer of being a pro. This may not be you saying that and what some think or act like out there but it is something that makes me nervous when I come across it. I am a big proponent of multi sports.

Just from my experience - club soccer at the youth level (5/6 years old through 12) is not at all "elite" where I live. These are rec leagues with thousands of kids playing against each other locally and never traveling more than 20-30 minutes from the club's home fields. Coaches are nearly all volunteer parents and the refs are older kids. As they get a bit older - around middle school or so - they start to have try outs for the "select" teams. But there's always a place for a kid in the rec club system if he wants to play soccer and it is relatively inexpensive. I don't really understand why grade schools don't have a soccer league. We have boys and girls school volleyball league in the fall, basketball over the winter, and track meets in the Spring. That's it for league sports competing against other schools in terms of sports. Its more than I had at that age. League sports competitions among schools only really get going beginning in 9th grade here.

We had nothing grade school wise when I was growing up other than an "olympics" event that each grade school in the city played against each other in your typical track and field events which was for 6th grade. Only in Jr High did we have basketball. I really don't recall much else other than maybe track.

The football and basketball programs for our Catholic league are pretty competitive (it isn't 100% Catholic, at least in the basketball leagues where there are a few public school teams but most are the Catholic schools in the southwestern part of Chicago and burbs.) They end up bring feeders for the Catholic highschools which in Illinois tend to be the powerhouse teams (you will hear public school proponents cry and moan about it often though I think it is dumb because they are not able to offer athletic scholarships which I think they should be able to and is only another lame protection of teacher unions versus helping kids.... of whom minorities would benefit the most out of... but I digress)

I really like it. 3rd grade starts football, basketball and soccer. Track, Vball, Cross Country, and Golf end up being offered later. Last year, we did our first flag football program for 1st and 2nd grade but only a few schools are doing it so far. We did it mostly to keep our boys in the school team and not end up playing for the club football team in town. Almost all the boys in my sons class play football with only a few exceptions. One of them plays for the club team. We actually had two over there but then two years ago they were on vacation and told the club they would miss a few of the practices as the season started... they told him that he wouldn't start anymore. So, they came to the school team. Both of them were at the club team only because they started flag football with them before 3rd grade. Hence, trying to cut that off.