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Dual zone hvac. Anyone have one? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Wooderson
- Start date
captain_amazing
Footballguy
I'm going to be adding a second zone to our second story this summer. I believe the costs are very much dependent on your current system and setup.
Wooderson
Fight The Power
Chemical X
Footballguy
OP can you expand and explain more The situation?
MC Gas Money
Footballguy
Is this one of those high pressure systems?
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
We have a two zone system. I've no idea what it costs nor whether it saves me money, as it came with the house.
captain_amazing
Footballguy
I was planning on attempting to do it myself. Thankfully I have two separate pipes that split at my boiler and service either the first or second floor, so all I need to do is add some kind of valve where they split which will control whether the valve is open or closed. The valve connects to the boiler and is controlled by either a thermostat that can manage two zones or a separate thermostat in the other zoned area (which will be my case, I think). It's been awhile since I've thought about it, so I may not have all of my facts straight, but that's how I remember it. That would run me a few hundred bucks for DIY.
Mr. Ected
Footballguy
I have a similar problem, hot in winter, cool in summer. PITA. I also have one AC unit. The fact that my sole thermostat is on the main floor makes this more difficult. I have been able it solve this partially with a 'vent' (may not be right word) in the ducts that allows me to adjust which part of the house gets more air, upstairs or downstairs. This causes my unit to work more, which sux for $$$.
My next thought is to get a new thermostat that allows a remote sensor that can give the main thermostat a temperature to base the system upon. I've seen some, I just need to figure the whole thing out.
Chemical X
Footballguy
2 zone 1 unit? 2 zone 2 units? remember, heat rises.......
Mr. Ected
Footballguy
Here is an article about smart thermostats with remote sensors. It focuses on the ecobee3.
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Smart-Thermostats-for-Homes-With-More-Than-One-Room-From-Ecobee
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Smart-Thermostats-for-Homes-With-More-Than-One-Room-From-Ecobee
skol asylum
Footballguy
I have 2 separate HVAC units. $14K. Good times.
Card Trader
Footballguy
I have two separate units, one has dual zone. Single story home. One definitely isn't as efficient so I wouldn't say something like that is isolated to a 2 story home. These are both brand new (under 1yr) too
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Wooderson
Fight The Power
Statcruncher
Footballguy
If the freakin' search function worked I could link to a post that discussed a similar issue. 2 story house, 1 unit, dual zone with a thermostat on each floor. Texas house and the entryway has a huge glass window that faces west and is open all the way to the second floor. It was about impossible to keep the upstairs from being at least 5 degrees warmer than the downstairs and the AC ran constantly.
We had AC guys come out and try several things and nothing worked. We finally had solar screens installed in an effort to save money and amazingly that cured the problem. Turns out the issue wasn't so much just heat rising and dual zone issues, it was the amount of heat coming in from outside, which then started rising.
tl;dr: A properly set-up dual zone on one unit with dual thermostats works great in my experience. We didn't install it so I can't tell you what it costs or if it will save money.
We had AC guys come out and try several things and nothing worked. We finally had solar screens installed in an effort to save money and amazingly that cured the problem. Turns out the issue wasn't so much just heat rising and dual zone issues, it was the amount of heat coming in from outside, which then started rising.
tl;dr: A properly set-up dual zone on one unit with dual thermostats works great in my experience. We didn't install it so I can't tell you what it costs or if it will save money.
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Chemical X
Footballguy
well, i am surprised you don't know how many units you have. if you have 1 unit, 2 zones, then you have thermostats upstairs and downstairs. do you have an attic? are you in a hot area of the country? if your attic is retaining heat, combined with heat naturally rising, your upstairs will be hotter. many people have taken to installing attic fans to clear the heat. report back with findings.........if you have a 2 story with 1 zone, installing a 2nd zone/thermostat would be helpful. do you have air conditioning upstairs at all?
imjackdupp
Footballguy
Multiple zone systems can be nice if they are installed properly. I have put in quite a few. however if they aren't well balanced, properly sized, have adequate bypass or waste zones then they will not work very well.
I've run across quite a few that were actually making the conditions worse. So do your homework.
I've run across quite a few that were actually making the conditions worse. So do your homework.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I have 2 units, 2 zones. Upstairs and Downstairs. Both are controlled via my z-wave system. The challenge is that we have a pretty open floorplan colonial style house. Given that heat rises, the only time the dual-zone is REALLY beneficial is in the winter at night when we can basically shut the downstairs down and run the heat upstairs while we sleep, and in the summer when we can run the downstairs AC and let the upstairs get a bit warmer during the day. It helps, but not a ton. Most of the other times, you have to set them both at a similar temp or else one will just run all the time trying to heat/cool the whole house.
If I was doing it again myself, I'd just get one large high-efficiency to run the whole house. It's an oil furnace, and normal AC units. They were installed when the house was built, and are ~16 years old now. The larger downstairs AC unit died on us 2 years ago. We replaced it with a heat-pump unit to try and save on oil costs some during the fall and spring when temperatures were more moderate but we still needed some heat. It's been working well and we've seen a decrease in oil usage.
The biggest challenge IMO with dual-zone is if you ever want to do a full overhaul of your system...I really want to switch to a high-efficiency propane system. In order to do that now, I'd have to scrap 2 oil burners, and both of my AC units. I can't really just wait for one to fail because they just fail at different times. If I want to switch it all out, I'm looking at probably $15-$20K or more depending on the unit to replace something that mostly works...and at the end of the day, your "quality of living" is the same. The house is warm. I have't done the math on pay-back period, but I have a feeling it would take a little while...especially if heat oil prices stay down.
If I was doing it again myself, I'd just get one large high-efficiency to run the whole house. It's an oil furnace, and normal AC units. They were installed when the house was built, and are ~16 years old now. The larger downstairs AC unit died on us 2 years ago. We replaced it with a heat-pump unit to try and save on oil costs some during the fall and spring when temperatures were more moderate but we still needed some heat. It's been working well and we've seen a decrease in oil usage.
The biggest challenge IMO with dual-zone is if you ever want to do a full overhaul of your system...I really want to switch to a high-efficiency propane system. In order to do that now, I'd have to scrap 2 oil burners, and both of my AC units. I can't really just wait for one to fail because they just fail at different times. If I want to switch it all out, I'm looking at probably $15-$20K or more depending on the unit to replace something that mostly works...and at the end of the day, your "quality of living" is the same. The house is warm. I have't done the math on pay-back period, but I have a feeling it would take a little while...especially if heat oil prices stay down.
East Coast Bias
Footballguy
imjackdupp
Footballguy
Oh and to your original ??'s Wooderson. Just to add a zone system to your existing central unit the prices could range anywhere from $1500 to $4000 depending on the number of dampers and duct work required to install it.
If you have a main trunk line feeding the downstairs and a main trunk feeding the upstairs you would only need 2 dampers there and possibly a bypass. Then would only need the zone control system and installing a second t-stat.
My system is an 18 SEER 2 stage with gas furnace and 3 zones. At 2600sq ft. My typical electric bill is less than $100 and up to around 150 in the summer months. It tends to run alot when its over 100deg everyday for a couple of months here in Louisiana.
Zone systems work best with 2 stage units but will work with single stage units but they are definately harder to balance static pressure. modulating dampers wiork much better as they will only close off to the point that the static pressure in the ductwork gets to high levels but they are much more expensive.
If you took a few pictures of your furnace/ductwork setup I could give you a better idea.
If you have a main trunk line feeding the downstairs and a main trunk feeding the upstairs you would only need 2 dampers there and possibly a bypass. Then would only need the zone control system and installing a second t-stat.
My system is an 18 SEER 2 stage with gas furnace and 3 zones. At 2600sq ft. My typical electric bill is less than $100 and up to around 150 in the summer months. It tends to run alot when its over 100deg everyday for a couple of months here in Louisiana.
Zone systems work best with 2 stage units but will work with single stage units but they are definately harder to balance static pressure. modulating dampers wiork much better as they will only close off to the point that the static pressure in the ductwork gets to high levels but they are much more expensive.
If you took a few pictures of your furnace/ductwork setup I could give you a better idea.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
Do you have a forced air system (furnace and ducts) or a hydronic system with a boiler (pipes and radiators).
Some of the replies have addressed the former, some the latter. In general it is easier and a good money saver to have multiple zones with hydronics instead of forced air.
Some of the replies have addressed the former, some the latter. In general it is easier and a good money saver to have multiple zones with hydronics instead of forced air.
Wooderson
Fight The Power
Thanks for the responses I'll try to give some more info.
It's a forced sit system. System is original to the house 12 years old. AC unit is on the ground outside. Furnace is in attic. Thernostat is in upstairs hallway.
I live in NorCal so winters are not an issue but summers are brutal on the bill.
House is 2600 sq feet.
My bill ranges from $300 in the winter to $700 in the summer.
It's a forced sit system. System is original to the house 12 years old. AC unit is on the ground outside. Furnace is in attic. Thernostat is in upstairs hallway.
I live in NorCal so winters are not an issue but summers are brutal on the bill.
House is 2600 sq feet.
My bill ranges from $300 in the winter to $700 in the summer.
Wooderson
Fight The Power
I'm getting estimates on Thursday for wooden blinds on my two largest windows that face West.
After that may tint them as well.
If that isn't enough looking to ### more insulation to my attic. I can feel the heat from the attic access.
Also looking into solar with in the next year.
After that may tint them as well.
If that isn't enough looking to ### more insulation to my attic. I can feel the heat from the attic access.
Also looking into solar with in the next year.
Statcruncher
Footballguy
Wow, those numbers are insane. Texas here and summer is $250, winter $120 for my aforementioned 2600 sq/ft house with no tree cover. The house is 16 years old and has the original cheap builder's grade heating/cooling equipment.
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Wooderson
Fight The Power
I know it's stupid. Also have a non heated pool that is about 7 years old. Wouldn't be the end of the world if the pump died as I would like to get a more efficient model.
imjackdupp
Footballguy
With the thermostat located upstairs during the hottest months of the year it is very likely that the first floor is getting below that 74 deg number but the system will never turn off because of the higher heat on the second floor. A zone control system would def help with this since it could close off the vents downstairs some of the time and dump more air upstairs.
The insulation binds and tint are all good places to start. When I bought my current home the first summer I was averaging $350 a month and after putting in the high efficiency system with the 3 zones im down to about $150 like I said. But since im an HVAC contractor I'm sure I got a better deal than you will.
Even a good coil cleaning and making sure the system is properly charged can save you a bunch if it is way off.
The insulation binds and tint are all good places to start. When I bought my current home the first summer I was averaging $350 a month and after putting in the high efficiency system with the 3 zones im down to about $150 like I said. But since im an HVAC contractor I'm sure I got a better deal than you will.
Even a good coil cleaning and making sure the system is properly charged can save you a bunch if it is way off.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Holy crap. I live in the freaking desert in Arizona and my highest summer bill is around $350 for a 2 story 2750 sq ft home. $700??? Wow.
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Wooderson
Fight The Power
It's outragous I know. I've thought more then once that I need to call PG&E and have the check out the accuracy. If there is such a thing.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Beats me, but Dual Zone Havoc strikes me as a cool band name.
