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Dynasty Rankings (11 Viewers)

CBSSports.com reports Rams RB Steven Jackson said in an interview with CBSSports.com that the back injury that caused him problems toward the end of the season -- he missed a game in Week 16 against Arizona and also missed the Pro Bowl -- is still bothering him in February. "My back is still giving me problems," Jackson said. "It's herniated discs. Anyone who has that injury knows it isn't any fun. You just have to rehab it, and I'm trying to avoid surgery. I've seen three different doctors on it, and they all said that surgery is not needed. It's one of those things I have to just gut it out and really rehab." But Jackson added "I'll be ready for training camp.

 
Per Lavar's passionate response.....

"And the first person to come here was one of my friends and one of my mentors, in Bobby Mitchell. If I understood how much this man had to go through to be where he was at in his life, I would not dress up as a fairy to try to get attention from the media. I would not do that. Knowing what this represents, I would not do that.

"I protect this with my heart, I protect this with my soul, I would not do that for just attention...."

C-L-A-S-S-I-C!.......... :thumbup:

 
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Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.

I have to rate my top 5 like this.....

1. Andre1500

2. Calvin

3. Fitz

4. Jennings

5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooks

By most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?

 
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
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I own Calvin and Fitz in a league and I don't see any reason to move either unless I get an overwhelming offer. Andre is in that class too, then a big dropoff.
 
The usual Fitz, AJ, Calvin. Actually next on my list would be Marshall. Simple reason. The buying price is going to be much lower than what most owners would have any interest in selling him at.

 
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
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Please give us examples of what you consider "fair market price." Just curious, because I own Calvin and have yet to receive an offer that was even remotely close IMO.
 
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
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B Marshall I find is still difficult to get if you want him. Many that own him discount the risk associated with him.
 
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
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Are you looking for a list of WRs that owners are least likely to sell at current market price? If so, VJax would top my personal list. I don't think his market price is anywhere near his actual value.
 
ty247 said:
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
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B Marshall I find is still difficult to get if you want him. Many that own him discount the risk associated with him.
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10 team, IDP league, start 3rb, 4wrNew Orleans Saints gave up Marshall, Brandon DEN WR; Year 2010 Round 1 Draft Pick from New Orleans Saints;Year 2010 Round 1 Draft Pick from New England PatriotsPhiladelphia Eagles gave up Stewart, Jonathan CAR RB;Cushing, Brian HOU LB
 
GreatLakesMike said:
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Please give us examples of what you consider "fair market price." Just curious, because I own Calvin and have yet to receive an offer that was even remotely close IMO.
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And you won't based on his performance last season. I'll say it again, I know Calvin has all-world talent, but he doesn't merit a Top 3 Dynasty WR ranking as long as he's on the Lions.
 
What are you guys doing with Tomlinson? Definitely too late totrade him, right? At this point I'd be overjoyed to get a repeat of last year.

 
ty247 said:
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.

I have to rate my top 5 like this.....

1. Andre1500

2. Calvin

3. Fitz

4. Jennings

5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooks

By most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
Click to expand...
B Marshall I find is still difficult to get if you want him. Many that own him discount the risk associated with him.
Click to expand...
And those that are trying to acquire him at a discount due to that "risk" are overstating said risk. :lmao:
 
dickey moe said:
GreatLakesMike said:
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Please give us examples of what you consider "fair market price." Just curious, because I own Calvin and have yet to receive an offer that was even remotely close IMO.
Click to expand...
And you won't based on his performance last season. I'll say it again, I know Calvin has all-world talent, but he doesn't merit a Top 3 Dynasty WR ranking as long as he's on the Lions.
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List all of the WRs you would rather have (ppr)
 
What (if any) are the NEW expectations for Cutler both next season and beyond now that Mike Martz is heading up Chicago's offense? We hear the common refrain of the "wonders" Martz did for Kitna in Detroit (4,000 yards) and pulled some life out of Shaun Hill in SF. You'd think that sending 4-5 WR's out every play and having Cutler slinging it around would be fantasy goodness...or just more picks? Cutler a good buy-low?

One thing seems certain - if I were a Greg Olsen dynasty owner, I'm not smiling.

 
TenTimes said:
What are you guys doing with Tomlinson? Definitely too late totrade him, right? At this point I'd be overjoyed to get a repeat of last year.
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He's probably a hold. There might be another sell high window if he signs with a team like Detroit.
 
Lott said:
ty247 said:
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.

I have to rate my top 5 like this.....

1. Andre1500

2. Calvin

3. Fitz

4. Jennings

5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooks

By most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
Click to expand...
B Marshall I find is still difficult to get if you want him. Many that own him discount the risk associated with him.
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And those that are trying to acquire him at a discount due to that "risk" are overstating said risk. ;)
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I got rid of him preseason last year. Sure, I miss the production, but considering the stress this guy causes in the offseason I don't regret the move at all. Others have the depth to risk a timebomb like Marshall, I didn't, so I got rid of him cheap.
 
TenTimes said:
What are you guys doing with Tomlinson? Definitely too late totrade him, right? At this point I'd be overjoyed to get a repeat of last year.
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I bought him super cheap last offseason because I needed a caretaker to roll out at my RB2 position while JStew and Noshow Moreno developed. I was actually very pleased with his production in that role, although I was definitely hurting when both Gore and Tomlinson were out injured.When I bought him, I knew that it would mean I would be the guy left holding the bag, but I'm okay with that. Hopefully, Tomlinson manages to serve as a borderline RB2 again this year to give me some insurance in case Moreno keeps struggling and Stewart's touches stay limited. I'd be open to selling him if a good offer came along, but as of right now I imagine he has more value to my team than he would to anyone else's. With my RB composition, I don't need a long-term solution, I just need a stopgap to give me another year of quality depth. I won't be looking to move him just for the sake of moving him.
 
MountainMan0726 said:
What (if any) are the NEW expectations for Cutler both next season and beyond now that Mike Martz is heading up Chicago's offense? We hear the common refrain of the "wonders" Martz did for Kitna in Detroit (4,000 yards) and pulled some life out of Shaun Hill in SF. You'd think that sending 4-5 WR's out every play and having Cutler slinging it around would be fantasy goodness...or just more picks? Cutler a good buy-low? One thing seems certain - if I were a Greg Olsen dynasty owner, I'm not smiling.
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My concern is that Cutler is a drop back QB who's accuracy is good enough to pick defenses apart when given a little more than enough time. Unfortunatly Martz offenses are always among the league leader in sacks so I'm not sure how this relationship is going to work out. Also you can't deny Brandon Marshall's ability to take jump ball would be INTs or incompletions and turn them into TDs. Nobody in Chicago (hell, few in the entire league) can do this, and that hurts. Martz, as I've witnessed, tends to abandon the running game in the 2nd half, even in close games, so that will help Cutler's attempts (if nothing else) but I'm not sure it will increase his efficiency, of the Bears win total in general.Accuse my rose colored glasses all you want, but I strongly believe his high INT total was due to lack of experience with his inexperienced WRs. A lot of the INTs weren't inaccurate throws but rather a miscommunication on where the WR was supposed to be. Now maybe this was Cutler's fault, maybe it was the WRs fault, that doesn't matter now. All that matters is that it gets corrected this offseason.
 
SSOG said:
TenTimes said:
What are you guys doing with Tomlinson? Definitely too late totrade him, right? At this point I'd be overjoyed to get a repeat of last year.
Click to expand...
I bought him super cheap last offseason because I needed a caretaker to roll out at my RB2 position while JStew and Noshow Moreno developed. I was actually very pleased with his production in that role, although I was definitely hurting when both Gore and Tomlinson were out injured.When I bought him, I knew that it would mean I would be the guy left holding the bag, but I'm okay with that. Hopefully, Tomlinson manages to serve as a borderline RB2 again this year to give me some insurance in case Moreno keeps struggling and Stewart's touches stay limited. I'd be open to selling him if a good offer came along, but as of right now I imagine he has more value to my team than he would to anyone else's. With my RB composition, I don't need a long-term solution, I just need a stopgap to give me another year of quality depth. I won't be looking to move him just for the sake of moving him.
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On the flip side, I bought him end of 08 to try and make a push, but found he never left my bench in 09 as Rice and Addai were clearly outperforming him, JStew carried me down the stretch, and even guys like Fred Jackson (PPR) seemed like safer options as backups. In my position, I'd take what I could get for him. He's emergency depth for me, so scoring Blount or Stafon with a middle round pick would seem like an upgrade. I'm sure he's got an Emmitt with the Cardinals year in him where he scores a ton of TDs, but I doubt I'd have the guts or need to start him if he actually did.
 
thriftyrocker said:
SSOG said:
TenTimes said:
What are you guys doing with Tomlinson? Definitely too late totrade him, right? At this point I'd be overjoyed to get a repeat of last year.
Click to expand...
I bought him super cheap last offseason because I needed a caretaker to roll out at my RB2 position while JStew and Noshow Moreno developed. I was actually very pleased with his production in that role, although I was definitely hurting when both Gore and Tomlinson were out injured.When I bought him, I knew that it would mean I would be the guy left holding the bag, but I'm okay with that. Hopefully, Tomlinson manages to serve as a borderline RB2 again this year to give me some insurance in case Moreno keeps struggling and Stewart's touches stay limited. I'd be open to selling him if a good offer came along, but as of right now I imagine he has more value to my team than he would to anyone else's. With my RB composition, I don't need a long-term solution, I just need a stopgap to give me another year of quality depth. I won't be looking to move him just for the sake of moving him.
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On the flip side, I bought him end of 08 to try and make a push, but found he never left my bench in 09 as Rice and Addai were clearly outperforming him, JStew carried me down the stretch, and even guys like Fred Jackson (PPR) seemed like safer options as backups. In my position, I'd take what I could get for him. He's emergency depth for me, so scoring Blount or Stafon with a middle round pick would seem like an upgrade. I'm sure he's got an Emmitt with the Cardinals year in him where he scores a ton of TDs, but I doubt I'd have the guts or need to start him if he actually did.
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A RB squad like that puts you in the top 1/3rd of most leagues in terms of RBs, but a majority of us relied on LT as out RB2 last year and probably are this year too. Granted my RBs are especially weak, but I'm stuck hoping he lasts until Greene becomes a viable RB2.
 
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA said:
Whats you fellas take on the NO backfield going foward?P.ThomasR.BushM.Bell
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My take... Bush is gone, Pierre is the lead back, but look for Payton to bring in more competition (although I doubt he'd spend a high pick on an RB). A lot of reward if Thomas wins the RB1 job, but a ton of risk in the situation, too.
 
dickey moe said:
GreatLakesMike said:
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Please give us examples of what you consider "fair market price." Just curious, because I own Calvin and have yet to receive an offer that was even remotely close IMO.
Click to expand...
And you won't based on his performance last season. I'll say it again, I know Calvin has all-world talent, but he doesn't merit a Top 3 Dynasty WR ranking as long as he's on the Lions.
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You sound just like the owners trying to aquire Calvin. It's always, "He plays for Detroit" or "He's injury prone." Calvin finished as #3 WR in PPR leagues in 2008. In 2009, he finished 22nd with a rookie QB throwing to him. In 2009, Calvin also missed the better part of 3 games, and dealt with triple teams late in the season because of the injuries to Smith and Pettigrew. I'm not looking to trade Calvin, and certainly not looking to move him for a WR2 + a late 1st round pick. Calvin is a top 3 dynasty asset IMO.
 
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What are folks thoughts on Jerome Harrison? Is he a sell high guy after a great end of the season or is what we saw a predictor of things to come??

 
Rodeojones said:
What are folks thoughts on Jerome Harrison? Is he a sell high guy after a great end of the season or is what we saw a predictor of things to come??
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I'd sell high on him. He's older than most people think he is (he'll be 27 later this month), he still can't pick up a blitz or block worth a damn (which will keep him off the field) and he'll have a healthy James Davis breathing down his neck come training camp.
 
Paul Newton said:
Rodeojones said:
What are folks thoughts on Jerome Harrison? Is he a sell high guy after a great end of the season or is what we saw a predictor of things to come??
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I'd sell high on him. He's older than most people think he is (he'll be 27 later this month), he still can't pick up a blitz or block worth a damn (which will keep him off the field) and he'll have a healthy James Davis breathing down his neck come training camp.
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I don't think age 27 is that big of a concern since he doesn't have much mileage on him, but I do have concerns that his big finish came against KC, OAK and JAX. Add to that he averaged under 4.0 against OAK and JAX and I think the folks that believe they snagged the next Priest Holmes are in for a rude awakening.
 
SSOG said:
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA said:
Whats you fellas take on the NO backfield going foward?P.ThomasR.BushM.Bell
Click to expand...
My take... Bush is gone, Pierre is the lead back, but look for Payton to bring in more competition (although I doubt he'd spend a high pick on an RB). A lot of reward if Thomas wins the RB1 job, but a ton of risk in the situation, too.
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i think thomas has finally proven himself to payton. no dalliance with another RB like beanie wells in the draft again this year. i think there is a good chance that they ask reggie to rework his contract. if he doesn't then he'll be traded or cut. bell seems to have fallen out of favor with payton. he may be retained but he'll have to fight lynell hamilton off, i think, for the back up job.
 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Paul Newton said:
Rodeojones said:
What are folks thoughts on Jerome Harrison? Is he a sell high guy after a great end of the season or is what we saw a predictor of things to come??
Click to expand...
I'd sell high on him. He's older than most people think he is (he'll be 27 later this month), he still can't pick up a blitz or block worth a damn (which will keep him off the field) and he'll have a healthy James Davis breathing down his neck come training camp.
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I don't think age 27 is that big of a concern since he doesn't have much mileage on him, but I do have concerns that his big finish came against KC, OAK and JAX. Add to that he averaged under 4.0 against OAK and JAX and I think the folks that believe they snagged the next Priest Holmes are in for a rude awakening.
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The age of 27 is a twofold concern. Not only will he be reaching the magical "drop-off" age of 30 sooner than many suspect, but he has been in the league for 4 years and hasn't seen the field much. The point there being that coaches have seen either too many weaknesses in his game or that he simply doesn't posses that much talent.In contrast take a look at guys like Pierre Thomas, Shonn Greene, Ray Rice and many others - in their second or 3rd years they were already getting significant carry numbers (at least over 100 - which Harrison hasn't gotten until 2009). It's not just an age issue from the "getting close to 30" side, but from the point that he must not have shown much in his first several seasons in the league.
 
saintfool said:
SSOG said:
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA said:
Whats you fellas take on the NO backfield going foward?P.ThomasR.BushM.Bell
Click to expand...
My take... Bush is gone, Pierre is the lead back, but look for Payton to bring in more competition (although I doubt he'd spend a high pick on an RB). A lot of reward if Thomas wins the RB1 job, but a ton of risk in the situation, too.
Click to expand...
i think thomas has finally proven himself to payton. no dalliance with another RB like beanie wells in the draft again this year. i think there is a good chance that they ask reggie to rework his contract. if he doesn't then he'll be traded or cut. bell seems to have fallen out of favor with payton. he may be retained but he'll have to fight lynell hamilton off, i think, for the back up job.
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I'm under the impression that Bush will end up staying a Saint. Despite that, I think Thomas will start to see a bigger part of the workload, especially around the goal line. Really I have no idea why Payton has limited Thomas as much as he has since whenever Thomas gets the ball he seems to get consistent gains. But, its pretty tough to second guess a guy who just won a Super Bowl. I think what Thomas did this year is likely his floor, and he's easily capable of top-10 numbers in my opinion. However, he does have a bit of an injury history(seemingly every Saint except Brees does) and there is always the risk of Payton just not having him be a big part of the game plan some weeks. I think Thomas is a bit low at 19th, but he does have more risk then almost all of the guys ahead of him. I guess it comes down to how you value safety/upside. Personally, I have Thomas as my second favorite buy this off season behind only Percy Harvin. Both of those guys seem to be in the 20s of most dynasty rankings, I believe that they are much closer to the 10-15 range at their positions. If Bush is indeed let go, its possible that Thomas has a monster breakout season and basically becomes a less explosive Ray Rice with more TD's.
 
GreatLakesMike said:
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Please give us examples of what you consider "fair market price." Just curious, because I own Calvin and have yet to receive an offer that was even remotely close IMO.
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Back in Week 10-11 right before the trade deadline, a team with very little RB strength who was out of the playoff hunt was offered three 2010 1st Rd picks (later turned out to end up being 1.01, 1.02, and 1.06) and Sproles for Calvin. Offer was rejected without hesitation. Sure, the guy didn't know exactly where the draft picks would end up, but that's where you have to project a bit based on the league format and strength of those teams associated with the draft picks he was getting. With a team badly in need of depth, no way I turn that deal down. Shortly after this deal was rejected, I later made a deal with the same guy offering the draft picks and wound up getting Flacco and Sproles, 1.01 and 1.06 for Drew Brees and Steve Smith (CAR) and 2.05. Guy I traded with came in 2nd Pl, I get to reload on the fly and am confident that I will compete this year for the title with 1.01, 1.05, 1.06, Charles, Beanie, Bowe, and others.......I'll make it work, no matter what. That's my steelo!
 
TenTimes said:
dickey moe said:
GreatLakesMike said:
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Please give us examples of what you consider "fair market price." Just curious, because I own Calvin and have yet to receive an offer that was even remotely close IMO.
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And you won't based on his performance last season. I'll say it again, I know Calvin has all-world talent, but he doesn't merit a Top 3 Dynasty WR ranking as long as he's on the Lions.
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List all of the WRs you would rather have (ppr)
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FitzgeraldMarshallWayneAndre JohnsonRoddy WhiteGreg JenningsVincent JacksonAnd I personally would rather have Santonio as well, but then again, I think he busts it out and is a top 5-10 guy for years to come starting this season.DeJax I would almost want as well. McNabb still great, and we saw that he didn't dip at all when Kolb stepped in.
 
DoubleG said:
The age of 27 is a twofold concern. Not only will he be reaching the magical "drop-off" age of 30 sooner than many suspect, but he has been in the league for 4 years and hasn't seen the field much. The point there being that coaches have seen either too many weaknesses in his game or that he simply doesn't posses that much talent.In contrast take a look at guys like Pierre Thomas, Shonn Greene, Ray Rice and many others - in their second or 3rd years they were already getting significant carry numbers (at least over 100 - which Harrison hasn't gotten until 2009). It's not just an age issue from the "getting close to 30" side, but from the point that he must not have shown much in his first several seasons in the league.
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Don't mistake "being pigeonholed into a specific role" with "didn't get carries because he has no talent." You're confusing his lack of carries with a lack of running skills. In actuality it's him being viewed as a third-down back who can't block--which means, of course, that you won't get carries. Numerous backs have done well late in their career. Without directly comparing him to any of them, think of Thomas Jones, Michael Turner, and Priest Holmes, among others. In 2006, rookie Harrison was behind Droughns and Jason Wright and got little PT--because he lacked blocking skills. You aren't going to take over the 3rd down duties if you can't block. Note that doesn't have anything to do with running talent, which he had in spades at Washington State. In 2007, Cleveland signed a bruiser in Jamal Lewis to be the lead back ahead of the lighter, faster Wright and Harrison. Lewis put together a very nice season (1304 yards, a 4.4ypc, and 9 TDs). In 2008, Lewis started his decline. Harrison ascended to primary backup, but Lewis dominated carries (279; Harrison and Wright roughly had 30 each). He was electric when he touched the ball and fans all asked for more PT, but the coaching staff didn't listen, presumably because they 1) still didn't perceive him as a bellcow, and 2) he couldn't block for crap.This year, they finally let him have a shot, and every time, he produced. Even against those weak defenses at the end of the year, he excelled when the Browns gameplan consisted almost entirely of "hand it off to Harrison", allowing defenses to key on him. There are plenty of lead backs in the league who aren't the best blockers. If Harrison turns into a 2-down back with home run ability, he's worth having. I'm not saying you shouldn't sell high if you get a great offer. However, the "few carries = no talent" isn't really a valid, thorough explanation. And yes, I'm admittedly biased, as I drafted him in three leagues last year anticipating that if he got the carries, this is what would happen. But still, I don't think the analysis is flawed.
 
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SSOG said:
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
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Are you looking for a list of WRs that owners are least likely to sell at current market price? If so, VJax would top my personal list. I don't think his market price is anywhere near his actual value.
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Avery?
 
Fear & Loathing said:
BigJim® said:
I just find this situation bizarre. I was one of the more vocal guys when he initially refused surgery. If everyone knows his elbow is still bad, why is he the QB of this team? He's signed through 2014 unless I'm mistaken. Why would the Bengals keep him and pay out the $120 million if he's Chad Pennington? Why would the Bengals wait out this bogus self healing when they are vested $120 million into the guy? Hell, he could have been healed by now entering his prime for the last 4 years of his heavy contract.
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Right. What's even more bizarre is that even couch potato fans can tell there's something wrong with his arm, but not a single analyst will say the same thing. Phil Simms, Boomer Esiason, Chris Mortensen -- I've seen quotes by all of these guys in the past few weeks insisting that Carson Palmer is fine, still one of the league's elite QBs, and that the receivers are the problem in Cincy's offense. I'm downright flummoxed when I read that stuff.
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Wait... I have fans?!?! :D
 
Instinctive said:
TenTimes said:
dickey moe said:
GreatLakesMike said:
kremenull said:
Currently, who are the WRs most difficult to pry away from an owner in PPR dynasty? I don't think it is necessarily based simply off of rankings.I have to rate my top 5 like this.....1. Andre15002. Calvin3. Fitz4. Jennings5. Crabtree/Nicks/Harvin/Maclin...basically, the top '09 rooksBy most difficult, I mean that even with the (extremely fair market) price you'd be willing to pay, the current owner is still dismissing. I've (or know of others who have) given pretty good efforts this offseason into trading for (at least most) of these guys and have been rebuffed time and again or I've seen some pretty steep prices paid for them. What do you think?
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Please give us examples of what you consider "fair market price." Just curious, because I own Calvin and have yet to receive an offer that was even remotely close IMO.
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And you won't based on his performance last season. I'll say it again, I know Calvin has all-world talent, but he doesn't merit a Top 3 Dynasty WR ranking as long as he's on the Lions.
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List all of the WRs you would rather have (ppr)
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FitzgeraldMarshallWayneAndre JohnsonRoddy WhiteGreg JenningsVincent JacksonAnd I personally would rather have Santonio as well, but then again, I think he busts it out and is a top 5-10 guy for years to come starting this season.DeJax I would almost want as well. McNabb still great, and we saw that he didn't dip at all when Kolb stepped in.
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You just made me LOL... Thnaks :thumbup:
 
T.Rex said:
Instinctive said:
TenTimes said:
dickey moe said:
GreatLakesMike said:
Please give us examples of what you consider "fair market price." Just curious, because I own Calvin and have yet to receive an offer that was even remotely close IMO.
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And you won't based on his performance last season. I'll say it again, I know Calvin has all-world talent, but he doesn't merit a Top 3 Dynasty WR ranking as long as he's on the Lions.
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List all of the WRs you would rather have (ppr)
Click to expand...
FitzgeraldMarshallWayneAndre JohnsonRoddy WhiteGreg JenningsVincent JacksonAnd I personally would rather have Santonio as well, but then again, I think he busts it out and is a top 5-10 guy for years to come starting this season.DeJax I would almost want as well. McNabb still great, and we saw that he didn't dip at all when Kolb stepped in.
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You just made me LOL... Thnaks :thumbup:
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Thanks for moving along the discussion, I'm oh so glad you felt the need to post.Care to say why none of those rankings are within the realm of possibility?
 
Tell me what part of the 3 below are incorrect

1- you alreay said "he has all world talent"

2- he's the youngest of the bunch

3- he's already had a top 3 finish

yet you make a statement you would rather have in a dynasty

Jennings

Vjax

Holmes

White

They are all older and their best season is less than Calvin has already done.

Now please explain why you think those guys are better???? I validated my statement I ask you to do the same.

 
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T.Rex said:
Instinctive said:
TenTimes said:
List all of the WRs you would rather have (ppr)
Click to expand...
FitzgeraldMarshallWayneAndre JohnsonRoddy WhiteGreg JenningsVincent JacksonAnd I personally would rather have Santonio as well, but then again, I think he busts it out and is a top 5-10 guy for years to come starting this season.DeJax I would almost want as well. McNabb still great, and we saw that he didn't dip at all when Kolb stepped in.
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You just made me LOL... Thnaks :blackdot:
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While I don't agree with some of those names, I don't see any that are particularly egregious. Fitz, Marshall, Wayne, Andre, and Roddy have all outscored Calvin over the past two seasons in PPR. Jennings and Jackson haven't, but Jennings has stronger track record. Jennings and Calvin finished 3-4 last year in non-PPR, and 20-21 this year in non-PPR, but Jennings has an extra 12th place finish to serve as tiebreaker. As for VJax... well, my opinions on VJax are clear. I've got him #4 in my dynasty rankings, and have flirted with moving him into the Fitz/Johnson/Johnson tier. Desean Jackson has been on a comparable career arc to Calvin so far (Calvin finished 35th and 3rd in his first two years, while Desean finished 21st and 4th). Holmes hasn't really shown a lot to justify the high ranking, but Instinctive has been very clear from the beginning that that was always just a gut feeling. That looks to me like a strong list of names, any one of which could be easily justified.Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he's wrong.
 
T.Rex said:
Tell me what part of the 3 below are incorrect1- you alreay said "he has all world talent"2- he's the youngest of the bunch3- he's already had a top 3 finishyet you make a statement you would rather have in a dynastyJenningsVjaxHolmesWhiteThey are all older and their best season is less than Calvin has already done.Now please explain why you think those guys are better???? I validated my statement I ask you to do the same.
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It's PPR. Roddy scored 64 more points than Calvin this year. Roddy scored 50 points more than Calvin over the last 2 years. Roddy scored 130 points more than Calvin over the last 3 years. You want to talk about overcoming adversity? Roddy White finished 14th in fantasy football (non-PPR) in 2007 despite playing for a 4-12 Atlanta team that started Joey Harrington, Chris Redman, and Byron Leftwich. He then followed that up with a 6th place finish with a rookie QB, and a 7th place finish with a 2nd year QB. He's the most underrated WR in all of fantasy football. I've got him #5 in my dynasty rankings, above Reggie Wayne.I already mentioned Greg Jennings (both Jennings and Calvin have finished within a single spot of each other over the past two years, but Jennings has an extra 12th place finish, and he has Aaron Rodgers serving as the ultimate trump card). And as I'm fond of saying for Vincent Jackson, he's the only guy in the league other than Randy Moss who is a top 5 WR on deep passes *AND* a top 5 WR in the red zone. DVOA rated him as the best WR in the NFL this year, and I think he's going to be a double-digit TD producer year in and year out going forward. Plus, again, Philip Rivers makes a nice trump card.I think the only guy who can't really be justified based on performance to date is Holmes, and as I said, Instinctive has always been clear and consistent that he's got a gut feeling on Holmes. Laugh all you want. You probably would have laughed at anyone who had a gut feeling that Sidney Rice was a top 10 dynasty WR last offseason, too.
 
T.Rex said:
Tell me what part of the 3 below are incorrect1- you alreay said "he has all world talent"2- he's the youngest of the bunch3- he's already had a top 3 finishyet you make a statement you would rather have in a dynastyJenningsVjaxHolmesWhiteThey are all older and their best season is less than Calvin has already done.Now please explain why you think those guys are better???? I validated my statement I ask you to do the same.
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Well I just wrote this huge response and my internet crapped out. So I'll summarize it.1. I did not say that. Ever. So #1 is 100% incorrect.2. Here's how I see these guys in the future:Roddy/Santonio ----85/1200/7+ guys Roddy already is one, and my hunch is Santonio becomes one and stays that way. Very consistent guys who get you 10-15 week in and week out. They both have young QBs who have looked extremely good, and teams that will compete each year, plus they are both going to be target #1 for a significant time. Top end with Consistency in a big way.Jennings: 75/1250/8+ guy who has a down year...because his TDs were down from usual. He had hand injuries early on and came on late. He has a top QB in this league who is only getting better, and I think he puts up his numbers year in and out for a long time to come.VJax/Calvin: Both to me seem to be 70/1200/7 guys...but extremely volatile. High ypc, dependent on TDs as well, and need more targets because the deep ball is a lower percentage catch than the possession-with-YAC routes. They could go 5-5-36-5-3-29-18-3-4 and it wouldn't surprise me (points in games). I want the guys who don't dip below ten.I simply like VJax's QB situation a bit better, which is why I would slightly prefer him to Calvin. I don't want either on my team though.3. He has had a top 3 finish. However, he's also had two outside the top 20. Which one is the outlier? I think he will be a top 15 guy, and I wouldn't drop him much lower, if at all lower, than those guys...but I do want those guys more. Of coure, Jennings has finished one behind him (at #4) in that top 3 year, and then one ahead of him this year, in a down year for both. And Jennings has another 9 TD season. And a significantly better QB. With an aging WR that should be going away soon and giving him more targets.ETA: looks like SSOG made the same points on a few of the guys, with some great additions to Roddy > CalvinAlso would like to edit that Calvin's top 3 season took him 151 targets, and he barely had a 50% catch percentage on them...he also needed to have a higher ypc than every other WR in the top 35 in targets to do so (except Steve Smith, who's catch % was closer to 70). To get that high ypc he also had ot have a few lucky long ones, like when they were down 28-0, HOU fumble don the 1, and they busted a coverage for a 99 yd TD, iirc, that doesn't happen in a competitive game.
 
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SSOG said:
T.Rex said:
Instinctive said:
TenTimes said:
List all of the WRs you would rather have (ppr)
Click to expand...
FitzgeraldMarshallWayneAndre JohnsonRoddy WhiteGreg JenningsVincent JacksonAnd I personally would rather have Santonio as well, but then again, I think he busts it out and is a top 5-10 guy for years to come starting this season.DeJax I would almost want as well. McNabb still great, and we saw that he didn't dip at all when Kolb stepped in.
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You just made me LOL... Thnaks :goodposting:
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While I don't agree with some of those names, I don't see any that are particularly egregious. Fitz, Marshall, Wayne, Andre, and Roddy have all outscored Calvin over the past two seasons in PPR. Jennings and Jackson haven't, but Jennings has stronger track record. Jennings and Calvin finished 3-4 last year in non-PPR, and 20-21 this year in non-PPR, but Jennings has an extra 12th place finish to serve as tiebreaker. As for VJax... well, my opinions on VJax are clear. I've got him #4 in my dynasty rankings, and have flirted with moving him into the Fitz/Johnson/Johnson tier. Desean Jackson has been on a comparable career arc to Calvin so far (Calvin finished 35th and 3rd in his first two years, while Desean finished 21st and 4th). Holmes hasn't really shown a lot to justify the high ranking, but Instinctive has been very clear from the beginning that that was always just a gut feeling. That looks to me like a strong list of names, any one of which could be easily justified.Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he's wrong.
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V-Jax is a real conundrum for me. I've tried to sell him as an elite guy in some leagues and no one is buying for those prices. At the same time, in other leagues no one is willing to sell for less than elite price because of the upside.The thing that really worries me is how much of his success is his talent and how much is opportunity, and whether we can trust he'll be back in SD this year or long-term. I think Rivers and that offense is great, and I think anyone there will be successful.... so, to me, VJax is a sell and Nanee and Floyd are buys.... except Vjax seemingly can't be sold for the right price :drive:
 
corpcow said:
V-Jax is a real conundrum for me. I've tried to sell him as an elite guy in some leagues and no one is buying for those prices. At the same time, in other leagues no one is willing to sell for less than elite price because of the upside.The thing that really worries me is how much of his success is his talent and how much is opportunity, and whether we can trust he'll be back in SD this year or long-term. I think Rivers and that offense is great, and I think anyone there will be successful.... so, to me, VJax is a sell and Nanee and Floyd are buys.... except Vjax seemingly can't be sold for the right price :)
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I definitely don't view VJax as a replaceable part, and I also don't think it's likely that he leaves San Diego. Even if he does, though... to be honest, his opportunity last year is what held him back. I mean, you've got the #1 WR in the NFL according to DVOA. He's averaging 10.8 yards per target, and catching 63% of his balls despite being averaging a whopping 17.2 yards per reception. And he's doing this against legit top coverages (as opposed to DVOA darlings like Rice and Meachem who benefited greatly from extra attention being paid to their teammates). So what do you do? You target him 116 times, 32nd in the NFL. He's setting a blistering pace in the red zone, seemingly scoring on every target, and pulling down a first down on a higher percentage of his targets than anyone but Vernon Davis, Dallas Clark, Visanthe Shiancoe, and Sidney Rice. So what do you do? You keep handing the ball to the player formerly known as Ladainian Tomlinson, resulting in FORTY players seeing more red zone targets than Jackson. While it might seem like a negative if VJax left and no longer had Philip Rivers tossing him passes, could you imagine what he'd do if he got 140+ targets in a season?
 
I'm fortunate enough to have Andre, Fitz, and Calvin in my dynasty and the only one I'd consider moving is Calvin. Andre and Fitz are borderline untouchable.

That said, I'm in no rush to move Calvin, especially not for any other WR straight up (well, I'd do it for Fitz or AJ if I didn't already have them, but not Jennings, Roddy, etc). This year for Calvin will end up being looked at as an outlier. He was hurt all year, and when he played at full strength he was still solid fantasy wise. His upside alone is worth more than those other guys, and I think even his "bad" years going forward will be as good as their above average ones.

That said, while Calvin is a physical freak, his football talent is overrated. The guy does not have elite hands, nor elite ball skills. He had so many passes go off his hands this year, and so many chances to go up and make a play in single coverage that he failed to make. Way, way too many.

 
SSOG said:
corpcow said:
V-Jax is a real conundrum for me. I've tried to sell him as an elite guy in some leagues and no one is buying for those prices. At the same time, in other leagues no one is willing to sell for less than elite price because of the upside.The thing that really worries me is how much of his success is his talent and how much is opportunity, and whether we can trust he'll be back in SD this year or long-term. I think Rivers and that offense is great, and I think anyone there will be successful.... so, to me, VJax is a sell and Nanee and Floyd are buys.... except Vjax seemingly can't be sold for the right price :)
Click to expand...
I definitely don't view VJax as a replaceable part, and I also don't think it's likely that he leaves San Diego. Even if he does, though... to be honest, his opportunity last year is what held him back. I mean, you've got the #1 WR in the NFL according to DVOA. He's averaging 10.8 yards per target, and catching 63% of his balls despite being averaging a whopping 17.2 yards per reception. And he's doing this against legit top coverages (as opposed to DVOA darlings like Rice and Meachem who benefited greatly from extra attention being paid to their teammates). So what do you do? You target him 116 times, 32nd in the NFL. He's setting a blistering pace in the red zone, seemingly scoring on every target, and pulling down a first down on a higher percentage of his targets than anyone but Vernon Davis, Dallas Clark, Visanthe Shiancoe, and Sidney Rice. So what do you do? You keep handing the ball to the player formerly known as Ladainian Tomlinson, resulting in FORTY players seeing more red zone targets than Jackson. While it might seem like a negative if VJax left and no longer had Philip Rivers tossing him passes, could you imagine what he'd do if he got 140+ targets in a season?
Click to expand...
The question is which is more likely - that VJax will get more targets or that he will be less productive with the targets he is getting? I don't think he can keep up with the "blistering pace" and San Diego often seems perfectly content using him as a complimentary player. There is definite risk valuing him as a top receiver.
 
Rodeojones said:
What are folks thoughts on Jerome Harrison? Is he a sell high guy after a great end of the season or is what we saw a predictor of things to come??
Click to expand...
Short term, Holmgren loves him and sees RB as the last piece he's concerned about in his rebuild of the Browns, so he has the gold key in fantasy football - full opportunity without threat of replacement. The only real concern I'd have here is if James Davis comes back and blows away again at camp, forcing him onto the field more too.Long term, it's hazy. I expect him to play, and play well in 2010, but beyond that? Who knows, especially since he's currently slated to be a free agent after 2010. I think he's a hold (for now). Most others don't believe in him right now for reasons already stated so you're not going to get great value for him if you dealt him. If you're in the middle of the playoff hunt in 2010, you can't afford to lose him, and he's playing well I think he needs to stay on your roster. If you can afford to lose him I'd test the waters and see if you get any bites but don't force the issue. If you're out of the playoff hunt and he's playing well, look for that team in the hunt but hurting for a RB2 and see what you can get.I wouldn't be concerned about his age as far as 2010 is concerned, but beyond I would be. Recent history is showing that some backs can play deeper into their 30's if they haven't withstood the pounding through their 20's that others have, but at the end of the day age is still a greater demon than touches.
 
Futeki said:
SSOG said:
corpcow said:
V-Jax is a real conundrum for me. I've tried to sell him as an elite guy in some leagues and no one is buying for those prices. At the same time, in other leagues no one is willing to sell for less than elite price because of the upside.The thing that really worries me is how much of his success is his talent and how much is opportunity, and whether we can trust he'll be back in SD this year or long-term. I think Rivers and that offense is great, and I think anyone there will be successful.... so, to me, VJax is a sell and Nanee and Floyd are buys.... except Vjax seemingly can't be sold for the right price ;)
Click to expand...
I definitely don't view VJax as a replaceable part, and I also don't think it's likely that he leaves San Diego. Even if he does, though... to be honest, his opportunity last year is what held him back. I mean, you've got the #1 WR in the NFL according to DVOA. He's averaging 10.8 yards per target, and catching 63% of his balls despite being averaging a whopping 17.2 yards per reception. And he's doing this against legit top coverages (as opposed to DVOA darlings like Rice and Meachem who benefited greatly from extra attention being paid to their teammates). So what do you do? You target him 116 times, 32nd in the NFL. He's setting a blistering pace in the red zone, seemingly scoring on every target, and pulling down a first down on a higher percentage of his targets than anyone but Vernon Davis, Dallas Clark, Visanthe Shiancoe, and Sidney Rice. So what do you do? You keep handing the ball to the player formerly known as Ladainian Tomlinson, resulting in FORTY players seeing more red zone targets than Jackson. While it might seem like a negative if VJax left and no longer had Philip Rivers tossing him passes, could you imagine what he'd do if he got 140+ targets in a season?
Click to expand...
The question is which is more likely - that VJax will get more targets or that he will be less productive with the targets he is getting? I don't think he can keep up with the "blistering pace" and San Diego often seems perfectly content using him as a complimentary player. There is definite risk valuing him as a top receiver.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: What is the catalyst that will lead to SD giving VJax more targets? I would argue that, if anything, SD will throw the ball slightly less going forward -- assuming they have a more effective RB in 2010 than over-the-hill LT. So that implies VJax needs to take targets from someone else. Who does he take them from? Gates? He was pretty effective this year. Do they throw less to the RBs? Maybe. Curious to get SSOG's thoughts on where these extra targets come from.
 
Re Vincent Jackson - Gates is getting up there in years and while LT wasn't the same this year there isn't a replacement currently on the roster that can do what he does...or used to do anyway. That could change between now and May but it's also entirely possible San Diego spends the offseason upgrading the o line and front 7, which arguably needs addressed before RB. The makeup of the backfield will obviously change between now and May but it's very possible they're looking at a Sproles/Toby like backfield going into next season. If that's the case I think it's pretty clear this will remain a pass heavy team. There is absolutely room for Jackson to grow, especially given what he's shown he's capable of, but I don't think there's any room for a drop off either. If you can get him for a low end WR1/high end WR2 price I would absolutely go get him, I know I will.

 
MAC_32 said:
Re Vincent Jackson - Gates is getting up there in years and while LT wasn't the same this year there isn't a replacement currently on the roster that can do what he does...or used to do anyway. That could change between now and May but it's also entirely possible San Diego spends the offseason upgrading the o line and front 7, which arguably needs addressed before RB. The makeup of the backfield will obviously change between now and May but it's very possible they're looking at a Sproles/Toby like backfield going into next season. If that's the case I think it's pretty clear this will remain a pass heavy team. There is absolutely room for Jackson to grow, especially given what he's shown he's capable of, but I don't think there's any room for a drop off either. If you can get him for a low end WR1/high end WR2 price I would absolutely go get him, I know I will.
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Ok, so explain what you see happening:a) SD passes more than last yearb) VJax steals targets from someone else (if so, from whom?)c) VJax does more with the same # of targetsEdit to add: San Diego was 19th in rushing attempts last year and 23rd in passing attempts. If they became the median passing team, (STL was 16th with 544 passing attempts vs SD at 519) this would add 25 targets. If they became top-quartile (CHI at 563 attempts) that would add 44 targets. So there is a reasonable case to make that SD throws the ball slightly more (~5-8% more) in 2010.And just to be clear: I'm not arguing that VJax isn't a top-10 WR. He's already demonstrated the ability to produce at a high level. I'm just trying to understand the rationale for saying that VJax will materially improve on his 2009 numbers.
 
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Michael Fox said:
MAC_32 said:
Re Vincent Jackson - Gates is getting up there in years and while LT wasn't the same this year there isn't a replacement currently on the roster that can do what he does...or used to do anyway. That could change between now and May but it's also entirely possible San Diego spends the offseason upgrading the o line and front 7, which arguably needs addressed before RB. The makeup of the backfield will obviously change between now and May but it's very possible they're looking at a Sproles/Toby like backfield going into next season. If that's the case I think it's pretty clear this will remain a pass heavy team. There is absolutely room for Jackson to grow, especially given what he's shown he's capable of, but I don't think there's any room for a drop off either. If you can get him for a low end WR1/high end WR2 price I would absolutely go get him, I know I will.
Click to expand...
Ok, so explain what you see happening:a) SD passes more than last yearb) VJax steals targets from someone else (if so, from whom?)c) VJax does more with the same # of targetsEdit to add: San Diego was 19th in rushing attempts last year and 23rd in passing attempts. If they became the median passing team, (STL was 16th with 544 passing attempts vs SD at 519) this would add 25 targets. If they became top-quartile (CHI at 563 attempts) that would add 44 targets. So there is a reasonable case to make that SD throws the ball slightly more (~5-8% more) in 2010.And just to be clear: I'm not arguing that VJax isn't a top-10 WR. He's already demonstrated the ability to produce at a high level. I'm just trying to understand the rationale for saying that VJax will materially improve on his 2009 numbers.
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Not C, but some combo of A and B. A team with those pass catching weapons, that QB, and a lack of a running game should be higher than 23rd in passing attempts. Then again, this is a team being run by Norv Turner so logic isn't a good argument here.
 
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