gorf
Footballguy
not much change. maybe a small bump up.
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Dynasty Rankings (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fear & Loathing
- Start date
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Delhomme wasn't going to start even if he stayed, so no change in my opinion.
•TheRealMcCoy
Footballguy
Hey ChainSaw.....Just click on "Dyansty Rankings" and it will take you to page one. At the ver top (In Blue) it says "Dynasty Rankings Blog". Click on that it will take you to "Sons of the Tundra Dynasty Rankings" site.GOOD STUFF!This thread is huge. Is there an actual list somewhere in here?Also, are there any resources on the site up regarding offseason and dynasty values?If this is the wrong thread to ask this question please correct meThanks
thecardiackid
Footballguy
Just look for the link to F&L's blog/list in his sig (@ the bottom of one of his posts) - make sure you check the dates though.This thread is huge. Is there an actual list somewhere in here?Also, are there any resources on the site up regarding offseason and dynasty values?If this is the wrong thread to ask this question please correct meThanks
Daniel Shirley
Footballguy
A popular thought is that San Fran takes spiller at 1.13. What does this do to Gore's value? Reduce it due to a number of diminished touches, or increase it by relieving some of the workload off him and possibly give him some longevity at a value higher than he otherwise would be. He is coming up on that point where its a viable thought that his production could suffer and his trade value would not be any higher than now. But then again, it seems like Gore is always an underrated top 7 or 8 back, even including some missed games...
I will be shocked if they take Spiller. They have a top 5 back in Gore, and a decent backup who can carry the full load in Coffee. There are just better ways for them to spend their 1st round picks imo.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I agree, although if they are going to fully commit to Alex Smith and the spread offense Spiller does make some sense. He can be a real weapon running routes out of the backfield and give opposing defenses headaches combined with Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree.
See "Reggie Bush v. 2.0"Would Spiller make a nice pickup for them? Yes.Would Spiller be an effective use of a first round pick for them? No.If he was there in the second I'm sure they (and most other teams) would jump on him. I am not convinced he is such a gamebreaker that a team with no clear need at RB will take him in the 1'st.
dmac37
Footballguy
All Bradshaw does is produce
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
az_prof
Footballguy
I think Bradshaw is the back to own--he is very young and has produced inside and outside; he's a complete back. The only question is his longevity. All of the guys are worth owning because it is a productive situation and it isn't sorted out yet, so yes, Ware is worth a deep sleeper.
thecardiackid
Footballguy
I'm hanging on to G. Johnson and Ware (just re-signed) only b/c this RBBC situation is anyone's guess. (Brown in another league)My guess is more of the same in 2010 w/ Jacobs & Bradshaw, but next year is
agreed. if they actually end up with bell i think it indicates shady will get a lot of work.
SSOG
Moderator
Bradshaw's a 24 year old 7th round RB who hasn't had 15 carries in a game since 2007 (career high: 17), hasn't ever topped 1000 yards from scrimmage, and has found himself mired on the depth chart behind the mirage that was Derrick Ward and a brutally ineffective Brandon Jacobs. He's produced well, which might mean he was good, or it might mean that the line in front of him is good (judging by Derrick Ward, I think the latter is more likely than the former). As of right now, I'm not convinced that he has the talent to be a regular starter. I'm not convinced the coaching staff views him as the type of RB that can be a regular starter (remember the lesson of Mewelde Moore- the fact that Bradshaw never tops 15 carries is very damning in that context). I'm sure, however, that there's some owner in every league who *IS* convinced of at least one of those two facts. As a result, if I own Bradshaw, I'm looking to find that owner and unload him for more than he's worth.Long story short... I'm not convinced that any of those RBs are ever going to break out of the cycle of RBBC, but I am convinced that one of my leaguemates has a favorite, so if I owned a piece of the Giants running game, I'd be looking around to see what I could get for it.All Bradshaw does is produce
I agree that the Giants staff may not allow Bradshaw to get enough touches to be a top fantasy RB, but don't agree on his talent level. I have watched Bradshaw play, and he has game. He is a very tough runner, with the skill set to be a top notch RB. It's not just the line, Bradshaw has skills.Bradshaw's a 24 year old 7th round RB who hasn't had 15 carries in a game since 2007 (career high: 17), hasn't ever topped 1000 yards from scrimmage, and has found himself mired on the depth chart behind the mirage that was Derrick Ward and a brutally ineffective Brandon Jacobs. He's produced well, which might mean he was good, or it might mean that the line in front of him is good (judging by Derrick Ward, I think the latter is more likely than the former). As of right now, I'm not convinced that he has the talent to be a regular starter. I'm not convinced the coaching staff views him as the type of RB that can be a regular starter (remember the lesson of Mewelde Moore- the fact that Bradshaw never tops 15 carries is very damning in that context). I'm sure, however, that there's some owner in every league who *IS* convinced of at least one of those two facts. As a result, if I own Bradshaw, I'm looking to find that owner and unload him for more than he's worth.Long story short... I'm not convinced that any of those RBs are ever going to break out of the cycle of RBBC, but I am convinced that one of my leaguemates has a favorite, so if I owned a piece of the Giants running game, I'd be looking around to see what I could get for it.All Bradshaw does is produce
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bradshaw was on his way to securing a bigger role this season until he cacked his foot. He is a very talented runner that only fell to round 7 due to small school bias and some serious criminal baggage entering the league (he has spent the last two offseasons in jail).He has break away speed and surprising power for a "smaller" back - I've seen him carry defensive ends a few yards down field on his back. You seem to discredit Jacobs and Ward - and while I wouldn't call them tremendous talents, they were very effective running backs with distinct talents that each surpassed 1,000 yards in the same season. I do agree the Giants o-line was mostly responsible for that as at the time it was an elite unti, now starting to head towards a decline.I agree with your overall premise that he may never be an elite fantasy RB, as Couglin loves the committee approach and teh Giants are slowly moving towards being a passing offense - but he does have talent. I actually traded him away this offseason for Jemichael Finley and Willie Parker, not because I don't beleive in him though but because I'm a HUGE beleiver in Finley and had some RB depth.Bradshaw's a 24 year old 7th round RB who hasn't had 15 carries in a game since 2007 (career high: 17), hasn't ever topped 1000 yards from scrimmage, and has found himself mired on the depth chart behind the mirage that was Derrick Ward and a brutally ineffective Brandon Jacobs. He's produced well, which might mean he was good, or it might mean that the line in front of him is good (judging by Derrick Ward, I think the latter is more likely than the former). As of right now, I'm not convinced that he has the talent to be a regular starter. I'm not convinced the coaching staff views him as the type of RB that can be a regular starter (remember the lesson of Mewelde Moore- the fact that Bradshaw never tops 15 carries is very damning in that context). I'm sure, however, that there's some owner in every league who *IS* convinced of at least one of those two facts. As a result, if I own Bradshaw, I'm looking to find that owner and unload him for more than he's worth.Long story short... I'm not convinced that any of those RBs are ever going to break out of the cycle of RBBC, but I am convinced that one of my leaguemates has a favorite, so if I owned a piece of the Giants running game, I'd be looking around to see what I could get for it.All Bradshaw does is produce
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dmac37
Footballguy
IMO the NYG should use Bradshaw & Jacobs like they used Tiki & Jacobs- just plug in Bradshaw for Tiki giving Bradshaw around 60-70% of the touches and let Jacobs be the hammer to finish gamesBradshaw's a 24 year old 7th round RB who hasn't had 15 carries in a game since 2007 (career high: 17), hasn't ever topped 1000 yards from scrimmage, and has found himself mired on the depth chart behind the mirage that was Derrick Ward and a brutally ineffective Brandon Jacobs. He's produced well, which might mean he was good, or it might mean that the line in front of him is good (judging by Derrick Ward, I think the latter is more likely than the former). As of right now, I'm not convinced that he has the talent to be a regular starter. I'm not convinced the coaching staff views him as the type of RB that can be a regular starter (remember the lesson of Mewelde Moore- the fact that Bradshaw never tops 15 carries is very damning in that context). I'm sure, however, that there's some owner in every league who *IS* convinced of at least one of those two facts. As a result, if I own Bradshaw, I'm looking to find that owner and unload him for more than he's worth.Long story short... I'm not convinced that any of those RBs are ever going to break out of the cycle of RBBC, but I am convinced that one of my leaguemates has a favorite, so if I owned a piece of the Giants running game, I'd be looking around to see what I could get for it.All Bradshaw does is produce
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kremenull
Footballguy
NFL teams don't fear Jacobs anymore like a few years ago. He's lost quite a bit in a very short time and I see a pretty steep decline from here on out. Too big of a back and a huge target who has absorbed (and dished out) a lot of hard licks. The knees are getting banged up far too often, and I can see Bradshaw being the MJD-like feature back and Jacobs being the Fred Taylor like role. Not that Jacobs is as good as Taylor was nor is Bradshaw on MJD's level, but the point I'm trying to make is that Bradshaw will be the $$$ fantasy player ala MJD was even with Taylor in tow.IMO the NYG should use Bradshaw & Jacobs like they used Tiki & Jacobs- just plug in Bradshaw for Tiki giving Bradshaw around 60-70% of the touches and let Jacobs be the hammer to finish gamesBradshaw's a 24 year old 7th round RB who hasn't had 15 carries in a game since 2007 (career high: 17), hasn't ever topped 1000 yards from scrimmage, and has found himself mired on the depth chart behind the mirage that was Derrick Ward and a brutally ineffective Brandon Jacobs. He's produced well, which might mean he was good, or it might mean that the line in front of him is good (judging by Derrick Ward, I think the latter is more likely than the former). As of right now, I'm not convinced that he has the talent to be a regular starter. I'm not convinced the coaching staff views him as the type of RB that can be a regular starter (remember the lesson of Mewelde Moore- the fact that Bradshaw never tops 15 carries is very damning in that context). I'm sure, however, that there's some owner in every league who *IS* convinced of at least one of those two facts. As a result, if I own Bradshaw, I'm looking to find that owner and unload him for more than he's worth.Long story short... I'm not convinced that any of those RBs are ever going to break out of the cycle of RBBC, but I am convinced that one of my leaguemates has a favorite, so if I owned a piece of the Giants running game, I'd be looking around to see what I could get for it.All Bradshaw does is produce
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
The Eagles were never going to draft Spiller or Mathews or spend a 1st or 2nd on a back. That would be the only real threat to McCoy's value. Reid said at Westbrook's sort-of-retirement press conference that McCoy was the guy. Reid says so little that when he actually says something without hedging it is probably true. It seemed they were most interested in Fargas, Bell, or another veteran. I guess the fact that they signed a journeyman mediocre veteran is a positive for McCoy's short term value, confirming what Reid said at the press conference. If they had signed Sproles, as was rumored, McCoy would take a big hit.On the negative side, it means McCoy will never see goalline work. That is Bell's main and possibly only value. McCoy will be 4th in line for those carries now - he was even losing goalline to Eldra Buckley late in the year. I question his ability to break 10+ yard TD runs at the NFL level, but he should be on the field enough that somehow he manages 5 to 7 TDs next year. I would bet on 800/50/400/6 from him next year. Nothing to get excited about but adequate. Both Bell and Weaver will get carries, and the Eagles will still pass on most downs. Joseph Addai had a similar year last year, except with a lot more TDs. As far as dynasty value, I would aim to sell high. If someone is forecasting a breakout because now he is the unquestioned starter, sell. I don't see much potential for a breakout.
Hey guys. I'm hoping to get some opinions on the relative value between R White and M Colston for the next 2 years in dynasty PPR format. Currently have the chance to trade Colston + something for White but I'm not sure how much better White really is.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think their fantasy value is virtually even. The only knock on Colston is Brees' ability to spread the love. However being is such a high powered offense is certainly nice.White has better speed, Colston is stronger and better after the catch - but numberswise they'll likely end up razor thin close (White may do it on a more consistent week to week basis though).It seems you'd prefer White since you are targeting him using Colston, but I wouldn't pay very much above and beyond that if I was you.spon23 said:
Instinctive
Footballguy
Thought it would be interesting to discuss Kenny Britt v Jonathan Stewart
I got an offer that boiled down to my Britt for his Stewart, and if it didn't leave me barren at wideout with an already stacked RB position, I'd have jumped. Anyway, that's the backstory.
So: What's up with this? Would you offer Stewart for Britt? Britt could literally play a DECADE longer than Stewart, and as a top 10 option, possibly.
I got an offer that boiled down to my Britt for his Stewart, and if it didn't leave me barren at wideout with an already stacked RB position, I'd have jumped. Anyway, that's the backstory.
So: What's up with this? Would you offer Stewart for Britt? Britt could literally play a DECADE longer than Stewart, and as a top 10 option, possibly.
n20
Footballguy
I wouldn't offer that and I'd take his Stewart for your Britt without hesitation. Britt is a very nice prospect but how is he different from a top WR prospect from this years class (in terms of potential)? My point is that I think the cost to replace Britt is much less than the cost to replace Stewart. Is the other owner worried that DeAngelo isn't going anywhere?
I would have accepted that trade in a millisecond even if Britt was the only WR on my roster. As far as Britt being a top 10 option, I suppose it's possible, but I don't see it.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I just had to comment on the brutally ineffective Jacobs comment. he averaged 5 yards a carry for 2 years while being the short yardage guy??? the Giant OL was really good for those 2 years, but last year the Giant OL was very weak. When Jacobs is healthy or even playing he has been effective? Last year Jacobs was banged up even when he played and was not the same as the 2 previous years. This may be an ongoing problem, but saying he was ineffective is just wrong.Bradshaw's a 24 year old 7th round RB who hasn't had 15 carries in a game since 2007 (career high: 17), hasn't ever topped 1000 yards from scrimmage, and has found himself mired on the depth chart behind the mirage that was Derrick Ward and a brutally ineffective Brandon Jacobs. He's produced well, which might mean he was good, or it might mean that the line in front of him is good (judging by Derrick Ward, I think the latter is more likely than the former). As of right now, I'm not convinced that he has the talent to be a regular starter. I'm not convinced the coaching staff views him as the type of RB that can be a regular starter (remember the lesson of Mewelde Moore- the fact that Bradshaw never tops 15 carries is very damning in that context). I'm sure, however, that there's some owner in every league who *IS* convinced of at least one of those two facts. As a result, if I own Bradshaw, I'm looking to find that owner and unload him for more than he's worth.Long story short... I'm not convinced that any of those RBs are ever going to break out of the cycle of RBBC, but I am convinced that one of my leaguemates has a favorite, so if I owned a piece of the Giants running game, I'd be looking around to see what I could get for it.All Bradshaw does is produce
Instinctive
Footballguy
I don't know his thoughts, and the deal is gone and done, whatever. The deal isn't the focus.What is Britt's value? Am I the onyl guy who would rather have him than Crabtree, and think it would take only a 2nd/3rd round rookie pick plus Britt to get Nicks? Where do we value the youngest player in the NFL? (iirc)
Sabertooth
Footballguy
As a Britt owner, I'd give him up for Stewart in a heartbeat. He's probably not going to put up fantastic numbers with Vince Young throwing him the rock. I love his potential, I think the sky is the limit on Britt. The thing is, you can always find wideouts. Stud running back is the theory I cut my fantasy teeth on, and I think it still applies in a situation like this. Just my $.02
Tau837
Footballguy
Instinctive
Footballguy
Again, offer accepted and moved on.Just an opening to a discussion of Britt's value. Why do some have him high? Why are others low on him?Agree 100%. Nobrainer.
I would have done that trade simply because you could trade Stewart (should you feel the urge) for a top 6ish WR. As for Britt, I am a big fan. Not sure he'll be shackled by the offense or not -- I think Young isn't the worst QB in the world and may be decent enough to get him the ball. There's room for one stand-out WR on that team, even run heavy offenses can have a stud WR.Again, offer accepted and moved on.Just an opening to a discussion of Britt's value. Why do some have him high? Why are others low on him?Agree 100%. Nobrainer.
az_prof
Footballguy
I can't speak for all White owners, but I think it would take a good, young WR3 (maybee a Meachem or a Kenny Brit) plus Colston for me to consider trading White for Colston. If you want to think draft picks, maybe Colston and a mid first round pick, like 1.6-1.9. White has had THREE straight season of 80 plus receptions and 1200 plus yards.Colston, in contrast, has had one year out of the past three that are comparable to what White has done the past three years. White is a top 10 dynasty Wr; Colston is a top 20 dynasty WR.
SSOG
Moderator
FWIW, I have White as my #5 dynasty WR (Fitz, Andre, Calvin, VJax, then White). Colston is hovering around the 9-12 range. White's more talented and in a more stable situation, but there's not a whole lot of difference between the two. I would be interested in upgrading from Colston to White, but I definitely wouldn't give up too much to do so. Maybe a WR in the 30-40 range.spon23 said:
If my fantasy team was CJ3, ADP, MJD, Rice, Gore, DWill, Turner, Britt, Bernard Berrian, and Ashley Lelie... I would still trade Kenny Britt for Jonathan Stewart in a tenth of a millisecond. IMO, turning down that offer would be like turning down someone who offered you Ray Rice in exchange for your Mike Sims-Walker. Britt, like Sims-Walker, is a quality WR who has showed talent and has good upside. Prospects like that are cheap and common. You don't pass on a difference maker at RB to hold on to a nice WR prospect.
I never meant to imply that Jacobs was, for his career, an ineffective back. I meant that Jacobs was an ineffective back LAST YEAR, and yet Bradshaw couldn't shake him. Jacobs averaged a pathetic 3.7 yards per carry. That might have been a result of injury, or age, or whatever, but the fact is that Jacobs wasn't getting it done, for whatever reason... and yet Jacobs still got 225 carries to Bradshaw's 163. That's cause for concern.
HAM
Footballguy
Sorry if this has been touched upon already, but is there any situation that would turn Dez Bryant away from a can't miss stud? Read lots of comparisons that would basically put him top 3 in the next few years. Is there any need to be weary of which team takes the chance on him?
Not talking about any of field issues. For this argument let's just say he keeps his head straight and becomes a model citizen. Just his talent and the possible teams that take him.
Not talking about any of field issues. For this argument let's just say he keeps his head straight and becomes a model citizen. Just his talent and the possible teams that take him.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That's where you are incorrect though. Bradshaw was clearly starting to take over last season - including goal line duties - until he cracked his foot. After the injury he was no longer the same though. I agree with some of what you are implying, that Bradshaw may never be a fantasy stud, but he is a better talent than you guve him credit for.You point to his draft position as a negative, but he was graded out much higher, but dropped due to legal issues - like I said he spent the last two offseasons serving time for violating his probation stemming from those legal issues.
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Yeah, Bradshaw was definitely earning more touches until he got hurt. He looked very good out there.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Jacobs is only 27 so it is not his age. he was banged up a lot last year and yes Bradshaw was more effective last year, but the Giant OL was not very good in straight running situations. Bradshaw also had his lowest YPC average of the past 4 years, but he was still a lot better than Jacobs. That being said, Bradshaw got the 3rd down room where Jacobs was the short yardage guy.I think both are effective, but the Giant OL was not good last year and Jacobs was banged up a lot. I would not be too excited about any Giant RB, but if I had to guess who the best fantasy back would be it would still be Jacobs.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
not true, the QB change is coming after this year. Id still take him relatively high, not #1 on Oakland but probably top4 at worst in rookie draftsT.Rex said:
SSOG
Moderator
I'm not sure the carry breakdown really bears out the "clearly starting to take over" storyline. Bradshaw cracked his foot in week 7. In the six weeks before that, he had 12, 9, 14, 12, 11, and 10 carries- he actually saw his carries decline for three consecutive weeks leading up to the injury. Meanwhile, Jacobs had 16, 16, 26, 21, 21, and 7 carries. Through the first five weeks, Ahmad Bradshaw's role (as a percentage of the total RB carries) was actually decreasing, albeit very slightly. In week 6, the Giants were definitely giving Bradshaw a chance to shine, but this whole "Bradshaw was taking over" thing is basically based on one game- a game where he only got 10 carries, I might add. Meanwhile, Bradshaw has still only reached 15 carries once in his entire career; he got 17 carries in a week 16 game in 2007.I never meant to say that I don't think Bradshaw is talented. I haven't watched him play enough to make that decision. I do know that there are a TON of red flags, and plenty of reason to question how talented he really is. Bradshaw has such a heavy combination of red flags and fans that, in my opinion, he's a strong sell.Dr. Octopus said:
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jdoggydogg
Footballguy
I'm interested in the board's opinions on these two players given the changes that happened during the offseason:
Larry Fitzgerald
Brilliant talent, but doesn't the retirement of Warner hurt Fitz's ranking? And now that Boldin is gone, it'll be easier to swing coverage over to Fitz. I think Fitz is a sell right now given his name value. Leinart is a huge drop down from Warner.
LeSean McCoy
Seems like Westbrook's retirement would get McCoy owners excited. But McCoy just doesn't seem like a star player to me. He had very few big plays last year (I think he didn't have a run longer than 30 yards?). Clearly, this is an excellent offense. I wonder if McCoy will be overvalued this year.
Larry Fitzgerald
Brilliant talent, but doesn't the retirement of Warner hurt Fitz's ranking? And now that Boldin is gone, it'll be easier to swing coverage over to Fitz. I think Fitz is a sell right now given his name value. Leinart is a huge drop down from Warner.
LeSean McCoy
Seems like Westbrook's retirement would get McCoy owners excited. But McCoy just doesn't seem like a star player to me. He had very few big plays last year (I think he didn't have a run longer than 30 yards?). Clearly, this is an excellent offense. I wonder if McCoy will be overvalued this year.
SSOG
Moderator
Fitzgerald-Still #1. Frankly, who would you put over him? I could totally see putting Andre Johnson there because AJ is a heathen he-beast... but Andre is 2 years older, and quite frankly, he's not much of a threat in the red zone. Over the last 3 years (aka the "Matt Schaub" era in Houston), Andre has posted a TD for every 11.1 catches, and he's never in his career hit 10 scores. Fitz averages a score for every 8.9 catches (the difference between an 11-score season and a 9-score season on 100 catches), and over the last 3 years he averages a TD for every 8.4 catches (works out to 12 scores on 100 catches compared to 9 for Johnson). Sure, the offense will change with Boldin and Warner gone, but Fitzgerald is still the biggest red zone weapon in the league, and I strongly believe his TDs will continue to reflect that. I also still believe he's the most talented WR in the league. He might have an off season here or there, but I think when all is said and done, we'll be looking at a Hall of Fame career, and I definitely want to be a part of that as a fantasy owner.
After Andre, though, who would you rank above Fitz? Calvin? Calvin's a comparable talent, but he's produced less (and is less proven), and he's playing in a worse offense with a QB who at this point looks just as bad. And after that, who is there? Wayne is 31, VJax still hasn't made "the leap" into the uber-elite, Desean has never posted 65 receptions and is even less of a threat in the red zone than Andre is. Roddy is awesome and a quality fantasy WR1, but he's got Reggie Wayne upside and not Randy Moss upside (Wayne has only topped 200 points once in his career, while Moss did it 6 times, and even Fitzgerald himself has already done it 3 times). Miles Austin is an interesting case- I actually think he's the guy outside the "top 3" that makes the most sense to include with the "big 3" (which is different than saying I'd rank him 4th), but his upside is really only what Fitz has already accomplished, and his downside is much lower than Fitzgerald's, to boot.
Remember that Fitzgerald posted one of his three 100/1400/10 seasons back in 2005, when he was a sophomore, the Cardinals were 5-11, and Kurt Warner missed half the games (and was hardly the Kurt Warner of 2008 even when he played). It's not like Fitzgerald is a Reggie Wayne, here- a guy who has played his entire career in the comfortable confines of one of the best offenses in the entire league.
I think a solid comparison here is Brandon Marshall. In '08, Marshall posted 104/1265/6 in 15 games in the #3 passing offense with a pro bowl QB at the helm and lots of targets drawing attention (3 other players topped 40 receptions, led by Royal with 91). In '09, Marshall posted 101/1120/10 in 15 games in the #13 passing offense with a castoff QB at the helm and no other targets drawing attention (only one other receiver topped 40 catches- Jabar Gaffney with 54). Talent is talent.
Tau837
Footballguy
There has been some Fitz discussion in this thread over the past couple of months. One starts around post 7537.
