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I'm sorry but imo I can't take anyone seriously who thinks Felix Jones is more talented than Arian Foster. Many, many players have looked extremely talented against college teams and that's where they go wrong. Showing skill and talent in college is not a true judge of talent. It's just taking advantage of less talented players. Felix Jones is close to being VERY BAD. Just watch him play.

No need to be sorry. I think you are very wrong, and am not sorry :goodposting:.What does Foster do better than Felix?What does Felix lack, or in otherwords: what makes Felix close to being very bad?His YPC went from 6, to whatever it is now because Dallas' line has been garbage. They lost Flozell, Gurode and BIGG are regressing, Columbo and Kozar have been hurt, and so on. So if you think Felix is bad, you should be able to say why, without using this years numbers, no?Lastly, I have watched every snap of his career, many of them, more than once. He has looked damn good in the NFL, not just college. Edit: Correction. I have not gone back to watch the rest of the Giants game, this season.
I won't use this years numbers. Just watch him play. I judge everyone by the tape against NFL players, not college. Felix has been a part time player at best in the NFL. He does not follow blockers well. He does not have the patience to let a hole open during a play. For someone who supposedly has breakaway speed, I have not seen breakaway speed at all. He seems to be average at catching the ball and below average at blocking even though we were told he would be an every down back . These characteristics do not translate well to the NFL. To me, Felix Jones is the next Julius Jones. All hype and no results.
Doesn't follow blockers well? No break away speed? Did you watch him break of a 46 yarder for a TD in week 17 last year, or a 73 yarder THE VERY NEXT WEEK against your Eagles?No patience? Below average at catching passes? Why, because of one fluke play on SC?I am not sorry. I can't take you seriously. I don't think you have watched him play this year, or maybe at all, which is fine. The speed is there, he is both patient and decisive, he has good hands and hasn't been given a chance to be an every down back, that doesn't mean he can't be. If you want to say he hasn't shown he can be a 3 down back, that is just fine. But at least be fair and acknowledge that he has not had a chance to be one. And if Felix is so bad, why was he averaging over 6.5 YPC his first two years, and now it is down to 4.2? If you watched the Cowboys play, which I do every week, it is CLEARLY not Felix that is the problem.

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Is anyone still drinking the James Stewart kool-aid? His Dynasty ranking is all over the map. I'm not sure what to think. I have no problem being patient, but will he be startable as early as next year or is he more of a two year project? I'd love to hear some opinions.

I own DeAngelo, and I've followed both RBs closely for years. I know that both RBs' stock is at an all time low. But it will get better. How much better depends on the front office.

If the front office is smart, they'll retain both RBs and add a quality QB. If the front office is less than smart, they'll let one of them go. Of course, we're discussing fantasy games here. So if you own Stewart or Williams, separating the two players could easily be fantasy gold. Both these RBs are talented enough to put up great numbers if they become their teams' bellcow starter.

You don't think they would be wise to get value for one of the two, that they can invest elsewhere on their roster? It doesn't make sense to have your 2nd best player touch the ball 5-8 times a game, in my opinion.
It seems like most NFL coaches want two (or even three) talented RBs on their starting squad. We as fantasy owners would love to see Williams and Stewart get the majority of touches every week. But unless you have a Peterson, Johnson, Gore, or MJD, it's smarter to rotate in a fresh guy to keep the defenses reeling.
I agree, but Stewart is more than a #2, even in a 50/50 split. You will eventually have to pay both of them top RB money, and I don't know that it is worth it. Not only that, but I would be just fine with a Mike Tolbert, Javon Ringer, Tashard Choice type getting 5-8 carries a game. Use the money/picks that you can aquire and get something else. Just my thoughts on the situation.

I know right now that if this was going on in NE, DeAngelo would have been traded and if they couldn't trade him, they would let him walk. I think NE is a good model to follow.

Who is this James Stewart character? Are you talking about the actor? :thumbup:

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Just because Brett Favre starts every game doesn't mean he's healthy. Stop throwing out facts (played 20 games in a row) that really don't have much meaning. He gets nicked up every game almost and has to come out for this play or that play. That's why he rarely gets 20 carries in a game and everyone knows he can't handle a full workload. Ask the Cowboys or Jerry Jones. If you didn't know he can't handle a full workload then you are watching the game but not paying attention.

Breakaway speed? 2 years ago (can't remember what team but I'll find it) he was chased down (had full speed and 5 yard edge on everyone) from behind by a db (who is most likely fast) and gets tackled at the 1 or 2 yard line and then leaves the game with an injury. Of course he's on the sideline for the touchdown run one play later.

I know because I draft him every year like an idiot.

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Just because Brett Favre starts every game doesn't mean he's healthy. Stop throwing out facts (played 20 games in a row) that really don't have much meaning. He gets nicked up every game almost and has to come out for this play or that play. That's why he rarely gets 20 carries in a game and everyone knows he can't handle a full workload. Ask the Cowboys or Jerry Jones. If you didn't know he can't handle a full workload then you are watching the game but not paying attention. Breakaway speed? 2 years ago (can't remember what team but I'll find it) he was chased down (had full speed and 5 yard edge on everyone) from behind by a db (who is most likely fast) and gets tackled at the 1 or 2 yard line and then leaves the game with an injury. Of course he's on the sideline for the touchdown run one play later. I know because I draft him every year like an idiot.

Brett Favre? Breakway speed? 20 carries?I assume you're talking about Felix Jones?

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Who would you rather have as a keeper in a 12 team keep 3 league? You have to keep 3.

Matt Forte or Mike Wallace?

I think both are questionable at best when only 36 players are begin kept. But I'm leaning toward Forte over Wallace. RBs are a commodity and I can't see Wallace being a top 10 wr in next year's rankings. But I can see Forte being about the 20th RB ranked. Thoughts?

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Looking for a deep end of the bench kind of guy I was wondering if anyone had any info on Marcel Reece. He hasn't had many touches the last 2 weeks but he's made plays when he has touched the ball. I read he is 6'3" 240 lbs with sub 4.5 speed and was a TE in college but other than that I don't know much about him. I know he's playing fullback now but is there any way if Bush leaves he could be an option for the #2 RB in Oakland next year? Will he get more involved in the offense this year? Even if he stays at fullback would he become a big enough part of the offense to be a flex play?

Curious is anyone has seen him play.

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Just because Brett Favre starts every game doesn't mean he's healthy. Stop throwing out facts (played 20 games in a row) that really don't have much meaning. He gets nicked up every game almost and has to come out for this play or that play. That's why he rarely gets 20 carries in a game and everyone knows he can't handle a full workload. Ask the Cowboys or Jerry Jones. If you didn't know he can't handle a full workload then you are watching the game but not paying attention.

Not rarely. Never. He's never gotten more than 16 carries. He's only topped 10 carries 6 times in the 41 games Dallas has played since he entered the league (only 29 of which he has been healthy enough to participate in).

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Just read Craig "bust" Davis won't be back with San Diego next season. Another guy who is supposedly ultra talented and super fast who amounted to nothing. You guys still believe in talent above all else?

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Just because Brett Favre starts every game doesn't mean he's healthy. Stop throwing out facts (played 20 games in a row) that really don't have much meaning. He gets nicked up every game almost and has to come out for this play or that play. That's why he rarely gets 20 carries in a game and everyone knows he can't handle a full workload. Ask the Cowboys or Jerry Jones. If you didn't know he can't handle a full workload then you are watching the game but not paying attention.

Not rarely. Never. He's never gotten more than 16 carries. He's only topped 10 carries 6 times in the 41 games Dallas has played since he entered the league (only 29 of which he has been healthy enough to participate in).

Never more than 16 carries in a game? Wow. What a talented individual.

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Just because Brett Favre starts every game doesn't mean he's healthy. Stop throwing out facts (played 20 games in a row) that really don't have much meaning. He gets nicked up every game almost and has to come out for this play or that play. That's why he rarely gets 20 carries in a game and everyone knows he can't handle a full workload. Ask the Cowboys or Jerry Jones. If you didn't know he can't handle a full workload then you are watching the game but not paying attention.

Not rarely. Never. He's never gotten more than 16 carries. He's only topped 10 carries 6 times in the 41 games Dallas has played since he entered the league (only 29 of which he has been healthy enough to participate in).
Hey, SSOG. If the Vikings didn't give AP more than 16 carries a game, what would that say about him? Or would it say more about the staff? And before you blast me for comparing them, I'm not. I am simply saying that a player can't control how many carries they get, and that I don't believe the Cowboys have handled Felix properly.

And Jahvid Best, who you give a healthy ranking has never had 100 yards rushing, yet has had more than 16 carries in a game. What is more important, the number of carries, or what you do with said carries?

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Just because Brett Favre starts every game doesn't mean he's healthy. Stop throwing out facts (played 20 games in a row) that really don't have much meaning. He gets nicked up every game almost and has to come out for this play or that play. That's why he rarely gets 20 carries in a game and everyone knows he can't handle a full workload. Ask the Cowboys or Jerry Jones. If you didn't know he can't handle a full workload then you are watching the game but not paying attention.

Not rarely. Never. He's never gotten more than 16 carries. He's only topped 10 carries 6 times in the 41 games Dallas has played since he entered the league (only 29 of which he has been healthy enough to participate in).

Never more than 16 carries in a game? Wow. What a talented individual.

Really? That is why he isn't talented? :lol:

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I didn't say that's why I think Felix isn't talented. If you can't handle the load to carry the ball 20 times per game or more than there is obviously issue with the coaching staff trusting a player to be able to handle that workload. There is a reason why he hasn't carried the ball much in his career. It's because he can't stay on the field. Believe me, I have been a fan of Felix Jones ever since he entered the league. More so than my league mates for sure. He just has never produced for me. A couple big games here and there doesn't do it for me because I can't trust him enough to put him in the lineup. I'm not trying to be a ##### to you either CC.

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I didn't say that's why I think Felix isn't talented. If you can't handle the load to carry the ball 20 times per game or more than there is obviously issue with the coaching staff trusting a player to be able to handle that workload. There is a reason why he hasn't carried the ball much in his career. It's because he can't stay on the field. Believe me, I have been a fan of Felix Jones ever since he entered the league. More so than my league mates for sure. He just has never produced for me. A couple big games here and there doesn't do it for me because I can't trust him enough to put him in the lineup. I'm not trying to be a ##### to you either CC.

He has had more of a load over the last 20 games than he ever has, and as another poster pointed out, he hasn't missed a game in that time. That would suggest that he is handling the increased load just fine. I can understand those that don't want him on their fantasy team. I don't own him in a single dynasty league. I undertand if you want to question his FF value; I don't understand how people can question his talent level. Question his ability to stay healthy, fine. But he is talented and I don't know how that can be questioned.

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I didn't say that's why I think Felix isn't talented. If you can't handle the load to carry the ball 20 times per game or more than there is obviously issue with the coaching staff trusting a player to be able to handle that workload. There is a reason why he hasn't carried the ball much in his career. It's because he can't stay on the field. Believe me, I have been a fan of Felix Jones ever since he entered the league. More so than my league mates for sure. He just has never produced for me. A couple big games here and there doesn't do it for me because I can't trust him enough to put him in the lineup. I'm not trying to be a ##### to you either CC.

He has had more of a load over the last 20 games than he ever has, and as another poster pointed out, he hasn't missed a game in that time. That would suggest that he is handling the increased load just fine. I can understand those that don't want him on their fantasy team. I don't own him in a single dynasty league. I undertand if you want to question his FF value; I don't understand how people can question his talent level. Question his ability to stay healthy, fine. But he is talented and I don't know how that can be questioned.
Okay, I agree with you on this. I may have gone a little overboard on criticizing him and that's probably because he hasn't become elite like I expected him to over the past couple of seasons. He has started to get more and more carries so hopefully he steps up. Now is the time if he wants to take the job from Barber for good. I think the Cowboys may give Choice a chance to showcase his ability though.

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I also think Felix is super-talented and that as soon as Dallas gets itself sorted out he'll produce elite numbers.

But I also agree that the fact that he hasn't broken one yet this year is a little worrisome given his off-season weight gain. I tend to think that the training staffs in the NFL aren't going to beef a guy up beyond the point he can be effective, but who knows. He may need to drop 6-8 pounds and play around 210-212.

Regardless... the guy is still averaging 4.1 per carry behind a putrid line. (All those swing passes are basically long handoffs (vs Vikings for example) and an admission that the Cowboys can't run block.)

It's way too soon to write him off.

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Just read Craig "bust" Davis won't be back with San Diego next season. Another guy who is supposedly ultra talented and super fast who amounted to nothing. You guys still believe in talent above all else?

What evidence is there that Davis is actually talented, rather than just supposedly talented? And who ever referred to Craig Davis as "ultra-talented?" I'm not sure he's one the 75 most talented receivers in the league, much less "ultra-talented." I think the philosophy of believing in talent above all else will survive Craig Davis's demise just fine.

FF is all about opportunity, not yards per carry.

Thing is, opportunity isn't randomly assigned; it goes to those who have the best chance of producing with it, i.e. yards per carry.

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Just read Craig "bust" Davis won't be back with San Diego next season. Another guy who is supposedly ultra talented and super fast who amounted to nothing. You guys still believe in talent above all else?

He was a reach in the first round when he was drafted by AJ "reach" Smith. Cant stay healthy and doesnt do anything with his opportunities. Cut him in dynasty dont even bother hoggin an IR spot

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So Eli Manning is a better dynasty QB than McNabb now. Glad to see that change that was rather obvious a few weeks back. :heart: Also great job on the website - it's extremely well done both asthetically and "intellectually". No one is ever going to agree about everything - but it creates a great jumping off point for discussion and a great reference to start out with.ETA: Things that jump out at me in the QB rankings are Orton and Vick being way too high and Sanchez and Stafford being way too low. Sanchez was putting together quite a nice season for a second year player and while his final stats look bad this week he actually played decently. He had a few bad drops and both interceptions came from the defensive back ripping the ball away from the WR after they "caught" it. I like Orton, but think he's slowing down quite a bit and McDaniels could be on the outs soon and his system is certainly a help to Orton's production. There's no need to rehash the Vick discussion from pages back.

Re Eli Manning: I think you've missed the point entirely on Eli Manning. Eli Manning is still ranked exactly where he's always been. He's gone from 17th to 15th to 17th to 19th to 20th to 17th to 16th. It's not that my opinion of Eli Manning has improved- it's pretty much exactly the same as it's been since 2007. Your phrasing of that sentence implies that Eli Manning somehow passed Donovan McNabb on the way up, when the reality is that Donovan McNabb passed Eli Manning on the way down.Mike Shanahan runs a complicated offense. It typically takes players a couple of years to get it, which is why when I see Donovan McNabb struggle, I chalk it up to growing pains. I think he's performed very acceptably so far this season, given his system and his offensive supporting cast. Obviously getting benched for Rex Grossman is a very bad thing, but even that's not exactly a nail in the coffin or anything. It's just that my previous ranking was based on the opinion that he'd sign a long-term deal in Washington and get a good 4 years or more with Shanahan. As of now, that possibility is looking less and less likely.Sanchez's "second year improvement" is a total mirage created by the fact that his INTs were down... and given the sample sizes involved, the decrease in INTs was more likely a statistical fluke than meaningful trend. His comp% is down, his YPA is down, and his YPC are down. Moreover, he's still looking a bit lost out there. He might be a bit low, but I'm quickly cooling on Sanchez. As for Stafford... he actually rose two spots in the last update. He's right where I want him, given I wasn't high on him coming into the league and he still hasn't shown much of anything.Vick played so well that Andy Reid let him keep his job even though Kolb, the "QB of the future", was playing well. That's a huge positive indicator for me. And with Orton, look beyond the fact that he plays in a friendly system for a moment. You've got a 27 year old QB whose INT% since his rookie season has gone 3.5, 2.5, 2.6, 2.2, 1.6. His YPA since his rookie season has gone 5.1, 6.0, 6.4, 7.0, 7.9. His ypg has gone 125, 159, 198, 238, 314. His QB rating has gone 60, 74, 80, 87, 93. He's currently the #2 fantasy QB despite playing with far and away the worst running game in the league, a banged up offensive line, and a receiving corps that before the season was considered likely the worst in the entire league. He's 5th in ANYA despite playing in pretty much the worst situation imaginable for putting up good efficiency metrics. And this isn't the first time he's been playing well, either- he was QB7 through the first 7 weeks of 2008 before he got hurt, missed time, and clearly wasn't the same guy after his return. And that was in a completely different offensive system and once again it was paired with the worst receiving corps in the entire NFL. And, to repeat the most relevant point one last time... Kyle Orton is 27 years old. Why is it so hard to believe that Kyle Orton is still improving at 27 years old? I've made as many Orton jokes as anyone, but at this point, I'm totally convinced. Kyle Orton is a good QB. He's this year's Matt Schaub, except while everyone was freaking out over Matt Schaub last year, this year Kyle Orton gets greeted with a collective yawn... despite putting up better stats without the assistance of Andre Johnson.
I didn't miss your point about Eli and not sure why you would even say that. Take the statement for what it is - two weeks ago we discussed Eli v. McNabb from a dynasty perspective. You argued that McNabb was a better dynasty QB, I took the opposite side, now you seem to be in agreement (based on their ranking). It didn't matter if Eli wnet up (which he did from 20 to 16) or if McNabb went down (which he did by quite a bit). All I was saying, was ranking McNabb head of Eli in a dynasty ranking didn't make much sense to me. McNabb is in decline - it's fairly obvious to me at least. I still think you rank Eli too low, but I do understand your philopshy for doing so - I just don't agree with it fundamentally or from a player evaluation perspective. I think there's something to be said for his consistency and security and I still think Eli has upside and room for growth, if you don't that's you perogative of course.As far as Orton. I agree to some extent. I've actually liked Orton more than most in the past - even going back to his Chicago days - but I do think his numbers are somewht inflated due to his current situation. McDaniels runs a very pass happy offense and while the lack of a running game can surely hurt a QB (by taking away that threat), here I think it helps add to his total production based solely on sheer volume - the Broncos pass a lot. I don't think the ranking is egrecious though, as I would feel safe having him as my starting QB in a dynasty - but I would feel safer with a solid backup if he was, as well.

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:shrug: No break away speed...

In fairness the extra weight/muscle he added this offseason has seemed to slow him down a little. He seems less explosive this season than he did the past two. Maybe it's just been in the games I've seen - as I haven't watched every game like you have - but I've soured on him a little and he was a guy that I really liked heading into this season. I do blame the Cowboys inability to use him correctly and the o-line for some of his struggles as well though. I also have to say that I do find the "can't stay healthy" argument to be one of the laziest and short sighted arguments out there though - for any player, not just Felix.

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Fellas, it's time to sell Ray Rice. Based on the rankings I see, his name value has kept him afloat to this point. That can't continue forever. I don't think he is a top 5 fantasy back or a top 5 NFL running back; thus, I don't expect many, if any top 5 finishes in his near future. Baltimore no longer relies on him getting a ridiculous amount of receptions to move the ball. Maybe the rest of the NFL has adjusted, but it just isn't working, and he just isn't special. He is not getting goal line carries, and I don't know if or when that changes. I think this is your best, last chance to sell high. This is what I consider selling high:

I would offer Rice + 1st round + for:

ADP, CJ

I would offer Rice + a 1st round pick for:

MDJ

Andre Johnson

Calvin Johnson

I would offer Rice straight up for:

Jamaal Charles

LeSean McCoy

Frank Gore

Rashard Mendenhall

Hakeem Nicks

Larry Fitzgerald

Roddy White

Miles Austin

I know many will disagree but: "All great truths start as blasphemy." My great truth is that Ray Rice is not a top 5 dynasty back, and barely makes the top 10.

Post of mine from May of this year, before Rice started to struggle:

"Ray Rice is a top 5 producing RB, but not a top 5 talent in my book. Top 15, maybe. I can't predict Ingram's situation, but based on what I have seen (I am no scout by any means) talent wise, he is easily head and shoulders above Ray Rice."

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Fellas, it's time to sell Ray Rice. Based on the rankings I see, his name value has kept him afloat to this point. That can't continue forever. I don't think he is a top 5 fantasy back or a top 5 NFL running back; thus, I don't expect many, if any top 5 finishes in his near future. Baltimore no longer relies on him getting a ridiculous amount of receptions to move the ball. Maybe the rest of the NFL has adjusted, but it just isn't working, and he just isn't special. He is not getting goal line carries, and I don't know if or when that changes. I think this is your best, last chance to sell high. This is what I consider selling high:

I would offer Rice + 1st round + for:

ADP, CJ

I would offer Rice + a 1st round pick for:

MDJ

Andre Johnson

Calvin Johnson

I would offer Rice straight up for:

Jamaal Charles

LeSean McCoy

Frank Gore

Rashard Mendenhall

Hakeem Nicks

Larry Fitzgerald

Roddy White

Miles Austin

I know many will disagree but: "All great truths start as blasphemy." My great truth is that Ray Rice is not a top 5 dynasty back, and barely makes the top 10.

Post of mine from May of this year, before Rice started to struggle:

"Ray Rice is a top 5 producing RB, but not a top 5 talent in my book. Top 15, maybe. I can't predict Ingram's situation, but based on what I have seen (I am no scout by any means) talent wise, he is easily head and shoulders above Ray Rice."

I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but only so far as believing Ray Rice is in the same tier or near the same tier as Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson (where many rank him). He is, however, absolutely a LOCK as a top 10 player and probably easily falls somehwere in the 4-8 range. I have watched every game he has played dating back to last season, and make no mistake, he is absolutely an elite talent. The goal line issue is a VERY short term concern that almost assuredly goes away after this season- the entire reason he isn't getting goal line work now is they are overpaying McGahee and need him to fill a role. As for his struggles this year, the vast majority of it has been situational, as he has looked quite great in essentially every game he has played.

As for the bolded players, he is without a doubt more talanted than Rashard Mendenahll in every way (I own both and have watched them play extensively and can say this with supreme confidence), I definitely believe he is a more talented player than LaSean McCoy (although I haven't watched McCoy play extensively enough to say this with the same confidence), and I believe Hakeem Nicks has become a wildly overrated prospect (he has talent, but people are putting far too much stock in this recent touchdown streak for my tastes). I don't think he is even a top 10 dynasty receiver at the moment, let alone worth trading Rice for. As for trading him for the 1.01 pick (and ostensibly Ingram), I think that would be a wise trade as well, as everything I have seen from Ingram indicates he has the potential to be a player in the Adrian Peterson/Chris Johnson class, while Rice (and every single other player in the league, mind you) is not.

You certainly could be right, but I think this is an example of short term stats causing a false shift in long term outlook. Rice has performed far better than his stats suggest and could easily be putting up exceptional numbers if the team hadn't foolishly abandonded the run in several games (games Rice was performing exceptional in). Additionally, his future only looks better with the expectation that McGahee leaves following this season and the expected return of Gaither next season.

Edited by Herm23

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Fellas, it's time to sell Ray Rice. Based on the rankings I see, his name value has kept him afloat to this point. That can't continue forever. I don't think he is a top 5 fantasy back or a top 5 NFL running back; thus, I don't expect many, if any top 5 finishes in his near future. Baltimore no longer relies on him getting a ridiculous amount of receptions to move the ball. Maybe the rest of the NFL has adjusted, but it just isn't working, and he just isn't special. He is not getting goal line carries, and I don't know if or when that changes. I think this is your best, last chance to sell high. This is what I consider selling high:

I would offer Rice + 1st round + for:

ADP, CJ

I would offer Rice + a 1st round pick for:

MDJ

Andre Johnson

Calvin Johnson

I would offer Rice straight up for:

Jamaal Charles

LeSean McCoy

Frank Gore

Rashard Mendenhall

Hakeem Nicks

Larry Fitzgerald

Roddy White

Miles Austin

I know many will disagree but: "All great truths start as blasphemy." My great truth is that Ray Rice is not a top 5 dynasty back, and barely makes the top 10.

Post of mine from May of this year, before Rice started to struggle:

"Ray Rice is a top 5 producing RB, but not a top 5 talent in my book. Top 15, maybe. I can't predict Ingram's situation, but based on what I have seen (I am no scout by any means) talent wise, he is easily head and shoulders above Ray Rice."

I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but only so far as believing Ray Rice is in the same tier or near the same tier as Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson (where many rank him). He is, however, absolutely a LOCK as a top 10 player and probably easily falls somehwere in the 4-8 range. I have watched every game he has played dating back to last season, and make no mistake, he is absolutely an elite talent. The goal line issue is a VERY short term concern that almost assuredly goes away after this season- the entire reason he isn't getting goal line work now is they are overpaying McGahee and need him to fill a role. As for his struggles this year, the vast majority of it has been situational, as he has looked quite great in essentially every game he has played.

As for the bolded players, he is without a doubt more talanted than Rashard Mendenahll in every way (I own both and have watched them play extensively and can say this with supreme confidence), I definitely believe he is a more talented player than LaSean McCoy (although I haven't watched McCoy play extensively enough to say this with the same confidence), and I believe Hakeem Nicks has become a wildly overrated prospect (he has talent, but people are putting far too much stock in this recent touchdown streak for my tastes). I don't think he is even a top 10 dynasty receiver at the moment, let alone worth trading Rice for. As for trading him for the 1.01 pick (and ostensibly Ingram), I think that would be a wise trade as well, as everything I have seen from Ingram indicates he has the potential to be a player in the Adrian Peterson/Chris Johnson class, while Rice (and every single other player in the league, mind you) is not.

You certainly could be right, but I think this is an example of short term stats causing a false shift in long term outlook. Rice has performed far better than his stats suggest and could easily be putting up exceptional numbers if the team hadn't foolishly abandonded the run in several games (games Rice was performing exceptional in). Additionally, his future only looks better with the expectation that McGahee leaves following this season and the expected return of Gaither next season.

Good posts.

I haven't seen much of Ray Rice. So what makes him an elite talent and who would you compare him to?

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Just read Craig "bust" Davis won't be back with San Diego next season. Another guy who is supposedly ultra talented and super fast who amounted to nothing. You guys still believe in talent above all else?

I don't think anybody has espoused the belief that it's "talent above all else." Certainly injury history and track record are very important.Davis can't stay healthy, and he's not that great when he does manage to play. I certainly wouldn't classify him as anywhere close to an elite talent. Edited by Fear & Loathing

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And before you "lose all faith" in anyone else, you can start with the FBG staff, who has yet to move McFadden in to dyansty RB1 status, even as recently as October.

1. Who cares where the FBG staff has McFadden ranked? Outside of Bloom, they've been consistently behind the curve for the past five years. What have the rest of them done to make you think we're dealing with some kind of Dynasty gurus here? I haven't looked at their rankings in awhile, but I've also been led to believe they aren't updated with any kind of regularity.
Edited by Fear & Loathing

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If McFadden gets an emphatic "meh" from you, I've lost faith in your ability to judge football talent. Unless, of course, you're not watching him consistently this season. You know what they say about the eye in the sky.

This is a little harsh.
Maybe, but it's also true. I've always appreciated EBF's ability to judge talent, so I'm hoping he just hasn't seen much of McFadden this year.
What is so hard to, believe? EBF made a couple good points: Did the Raiders change, or did DMC change? and: RBs rarely go from bad, or below average, to great. History shows it more likely that Oakland changed, than DMC changed.

So lets assume that it is a little of both. DMC is maturing and being more patient, and the OAK scheme, line, and skill players put DMC in a better position.

If you pride yourself of judging talent - so well that you KNOW that an opposing view on McFadden is simply un-thinkably wrong - you also know that RB is one of the hardest spots to judge: there are so many variables. For the same reason that late round runningbacks can regularly perform at high levels,again, external variables. Assuming we all agree on those, and remove them from the "vacuum", there is still one factor that applies to the RB position much more than any other: burst. Again, assuming you are as skilled or practiced as you think you are, you know burst is one of the more subjective, hard-to-define, intagible qualities that a player can have. We can all agree that McFaden has it right now. Under the same assumptions regarding your eability to judge talent: we can also assume that burst + room = production. I can point to any number of backs this year, or any year, really - Torain, Foster, Barber, Bradshaw to name a few.

So let's assume that DMC is a great talent, in a vacuum, independant of our burst + room = production equation. What do we have? What does he have that makes him better than average, better than above average, better than just good? He is faster than most backs in the NFL, elite even. He has good quickness and good vision, which most NFL runningbacks do. He still lacks balance, and while his patience is coming around, it is not above average. Other than that, what makes him great? Please help me understand what I am missing. Because I can tell you why, based on NFL play, McFadden would not be having this resurgence in Dallas, and if Felix was in Oakland, he would.

And before you "lose all faith" in anyone else, you can start with the FBG staff, who has yet to move McFadden in to dyansty RB1 status, even as recently as October.

Your statement re: EBF is FAR more dramatic and unreasonable than his re: McFadden, silly even.

In fact, lets make it easy, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAM2TX1I8yI

Please, do us all a favor and tell us what makes McFadden special, and what top 15 RBs in the NFL couldn't make those plays. These are his highlights from week two (simple Google search). You can use any clip you want, and tell us what RB can't get 10 yards when they aren't touched for 9. Tell us all what EBF is missing that is so clearly obvious. Use your scout lingo; use your own "film" if you want to - just share!

1. Who cares where the FBG staff has McFadden ranked? Outside of Bloom, they've been consistently behind the curve for the past five years. What have the rest of them done to make you think we're dealing with some kind of Dynasty gurus here? I haven't looked at their rankings in awhile, but I've also been led to believe they aren't updated with any kind of regularity.

2. EBF and I have been debating and agreeing more often than not in this very thread for over four years. He doesn't need a Johnny Come Lately to wage his battles for him.

3. Have you watched McFadden every game this year or just picked up a short youtube video from one game?

4. Do you hold it to be self-evident that Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson are elite talents? If so, what would you think if someone argued that they weren't elite talents? Misguided? Wrong? Looking at the wrong tape? Yeah, that's the same way I feel after watching McFadden in every game this year. It's the same way I felt about Arian Foster in August, about Chris Johnson in August of his rookie season, about Adrian Peterson in August of his rookie season.

5. What have I seen from McFadden that is special? As you mentioned, the breakaway speed. The ability to break tackles in traffic inside, consistently falling forward for extra yardage, and finishing his runs by exploding into tacklers. At the same, the ability to get to the edge, turn the corner and run away from defenders. Combined with all of that is excellent pass-catching ability plus the moves and speed to make plays after the catch.

1. When was your last set of rankings? And how exacty are your ranking ahead of the times? Behind, if anything. Since you haven't updated them during the season, this should be easy. Using your rankings, what did you predict ahead of time, what makes your rankings worth anything more than an ADP list?

2. I am not fighting anyone's battles. I am pointing out a silly comment, and making points of my own.

3. 3 games of his, 1 youtube clip, as I posted.

4. So McFadden is showing you the same things Peterson and CJ did? Huh. Okay.

5. Speed, fine. Falling forward? That is a cop out, if I have ever heard one. So he is fast and can catch and that makes him elite, so much so that you compare him to the 2 best backs in the game? Where does Darren Sproles rank...pretty damn close, eh?

6. I think you should re-do #5. I would if I were you. Fast, can catch, and falls forward (:rolleyes: ) does not equal elite.

7. Post some of your "film". Help us that don't scout understand. We would love to see what you look at.

8. You can't claim to have felt that Arian Foster was special, and then not rank him accordingly. :lmao: You "knew" he was special in August but ranked him as an average RB2 in your rankings? I don't think you are being honest about that part. No need to lie. We all missed the boat on Foster.

Edited by Concept Coop

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Fellas, it's time to sell Ray Rice. Based on the rankings I see, his name value has kept him afloat to this point. That can't continue forever. I don't think he is a top 5 fantasy back or a top 5 NFL running back; thus, I don't expect many, if any top 5 finishes in his near future. Baltimore no longer relies on him getting a ridiculous amount of receptions to move the ball. Maybe the rest of the NFL has adjusted, but it just isn't working, and he just isn't special. He is not getting goal line carries, and I don't know if or when that changes. I think this is your best, last chance to sell high. This is what I consider selling high:

I would offer Rice + 1st round + for:

ADP, CJ

I would offer Rice + a 1st round pick for:

MDJ

Andre Johnson

Calvin Johnson

I would offer Rice straight up for:

Jamaal Charles

LeSean McCoy

Frank Gore

Rashard Mendenhall

Hakeem Nicks

Larry Fitzgerald

Roddy White

Miles Austin

I know many will disagree but: "All great truths start as blasphemy." My great truth is that Ray Rice is not a top 5 dynasty back, and barely makes the top 10.

Post of mine from May of this year, before Rice started to struggle:

"Ray Rice is a top 5 producing RB, but not a top 5 talent in my book. Top 15, maybe. I can't predict Ingram's situation, but based on what I have seen (I am no scout by any means) talent wise, he is easily head and shoulders above Ray Rice."

I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but only so far as believing Ray Rice is in the same tier or near the same tier as Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson (where many rank him). He is, however, absolutely a LOCK as a top 10 player and probably easily falls somehwere in the 4-8 range. I have watched every game he has played dating back to last season, and make no mistake, he is absolutely an elite talent. The goal line issue is a VERY short term concern that almost assuredly goes away after this season- the entire reason he isn't getting goal line work now is they are overpaying McGahee and need him to fill a role. As for his struggles this year, the vast majority of it has been situational, as he has looked quite great in essentially every game he has played.

As for the bolded players, he is without a doubt more talanted than Rashard Mendenahll in every way (I own both and have watched them play extensively and can say this with supreme confidence), I definitely believe he is a more talented player than LaSean McCoy (although I haven't watched McCoy play extensively enough to say this with the same confidence), and I believe Hakeem Nicks has become a wildly overrated prospect (he has talent, but people are putting far too much stock in this recent touchdown streak for my tastes). I don't think he is even a top 10 dynasty receiver at the moment, let alone worth trading Rice for. As for trading him for the 1.01 pick (and ostensibly Ingram), I think that would be a wise trade as well, as everything I have seen from Ingram indicates he has the potential to be a player in the Adrian Peterson/Chris Johnson class, while Rice (and every single other player in the league, mind you) is not.

You certainly could be right, but I think this is an example of short term stats causing a false shift in long term outlook. Rice has performed far better than his stats suggest and could easily be putting up exceptional numbers if the team hadn't foolishly abandonded the run in several games (games Rice was performing exceptional in). Additionally, his future only looks better with the expectation that McGahee leaves following this season and the expected return of Gaither next season.

Good post.

Now that I think about it, I wouldn't trade him for Hicks.

But I don't think an argument can be made for Rice doing better with more carries, when he is on pace to surpass his total of last season, and is only averaging 4 YPC. I think there is more to it than that, and I think last season was a bit of a fluke.

As for Mendenhal, I don't think he is more talented, but he gets goal line carries, which is why I like him more as a FF player.

As for my Ingram quote, I just didn't want it to seem like I am making this claim because it is easy to now. I felt last year that Rice was not a top 5 talent. The quote I found just happened to also be about Ingram, who - like you - I love as a prospect.

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I think Ray Rice has been a bust in re-draft this year, but I'd bet his future is bright in Balto, and all he needs is more goalline touches and/or a mcgahee purge to be elite under any rubric.

ONE thing, though, that I bet helps all is dynasty is that the average footballguy gets bedazzled with random input from people that have an inherent PPR bias. THAT NOISE interferes with many signals, and most of us can gain leverage from that.

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I haven't looked at their rankings in awhile, but I've also been led to believe they aren't updated with any kind of regularity.

Hmm. :thumbup:

:lmao:

I believe you need a Rotoworld membership to view F & L's updated rankings.

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1. When was your last set of rankings? And how exacty are your ranking ahead of the times? Behind, if anything. Since you haven't updated them during the season, this should be easy. Using your rankings, what did you predict ahead of time, what makes your rankings worth anything more than an ADP list? 2. I am not fighting anyone's battles. I am pointing out a silly comment, and making points of my own.3. 3 games of his, 1 youtube clip, as I posted.4. So McFadden is showing you the same things Peterson and CJ did? Huh. Okay.5. Speed, fine. Falling forward? That is a cop out, if I have ever heard one. So he is fast and can catch and that makes him elite, so much so that you compare him to the 2 best backs in the game? Where does Darren Sproles rank...pretty damn close, eh?6. I think you should re-do #5. I would if I were you. Fast, can catch, and falls forward (:rolleyes: ) does not equal elite. 7. Post some of your "film". Help us that don't scout understand. We would love to see what you look at.8. You can't claim to have felt that Arian Foster was special, and then not rank him accordingly. :thumbdown: You "knew" he was special in August but ranked him as an average RB2 in your rankings? I don't think you are being honest about that part. No need to lie. We all missed the boat on Foster.

1. I update rankings every week.2. I called Arian Foster less than a month after he went undrafted in 2009. That call was published in the Beckett/Rotoworld magazine in June of 2009. I also called that situation throughout the summer on Twitter and in this very thread. 3. I don't care to re-do any of my answers. I think you should re-think the self-righteous attitude you've brought to this thread since you showed up assuming you were going to enlighten us on subjects we've been dissecting for years. 4. Where's your public track record?

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1. When was your last set of rankings? And how exacty are your ranking ahead of the times? Behind, if anything. Since you haven't updated them during the season, this should be easy. Using your rankings, what did you predict ahead of time, what makes your rankings worth anything more than an ADP list? 2. I am not fighting anyone's battles. I am pointing out a silly comment, and making points of my own.3. 3 games of his, 1 youtube clip, as I posted.4. So McFadden is showing you the same things Peterson and CJ did? Huh. Okay.5. Speed, fine. Falling forward? That is a cop out, if I have ever heard one. So he is fast and can catch and that makes him elite, so much so that you compare him to the 2 best backs in the game? Where does Darren Sproles rank...pretty damn close, eh?6. I think you should re-do #5. I would if I were you. Fast, can catch, and falls forward (:yes: ) does not equal elite. 7. Post some of your "film". Help us that don't scout understand. We would love to see what you look at.8. You can't claim to have felt that Arian Foster was special, and then not rank him accordingly. :rolleyes: You "knew" he was special in August but ranked him as an average RB2 in your rankings? I don't think you are being honest about that part. No need to lie. We all missed the boat on Foster.

1. I update rankings every week.2. I called Arian Foster less than a month after he went undrafted in 2009. That call was published in the Beckett/Rotoworld magazine in June of 2009. I also called that situation throughout the summer on Twitter and in this very thread. 3. I don't care to re-do any of my answers. I think you should re-think the self-righteous attitude you've brought to this thread since you showed up assuming you were going to enlighten us on subjects we've been dissecting for years. 4. Where's your public track record?
:thumbdown: I am impressed you replied this mildly... :)

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1. When was your last set of rankings? And how exacty are your ranking ahead of the times? Behind, if anything. Since you haven't updated them during the season, this should be easy. Using your rankings, what did you predict ahead of time, what makes your rankings worth anything more than an ADP list? 2. I am not fighting anyone's battles. I am pointing out a silly comment, and making points of my own.3. 3 games of his, 1 youtube clip, as I posted.4. So McFadden is showing you the same things Peterson and CJ did? Huh. Okay.5. Speed, fine. Falling forward? That is a cop out, if I have ever heard one. So he is fast and can catch and that makes him elite, so much so that you compare him to the 2 best backs in the game? Where does Darren Sproles rank...pretty damn close, eh?6. I think you should re-do #5. I would if I were you. Fast, can catch, and falls forward (:yes: ) does not equal elite. 7. Post some of your "film". Help us that don't scout understand. We would love to see what you look at.8. You can't claim to have felt that Arian Foster was special, and then not rank him accordingly. :rolleyes: You "knew" he was special in August but ranked him as an average RB2 in your rankings? I don't think you are being honest about that part. No need to lie. We all missed the boat on Foster.

1. I update rankings every week.2. I called Arian Foster less than a month after he went undrafted in 2009. That call was published in the Beckett/Rotoworld magazine in June of 2009. I also called that situation throughout the summer on Twitter and in this very thread. 3. I don't care to re-do any of my answers. I think you should re-think the self-righteous attitude you've brought to this thread since you showed up assuming you were going to enlighten us on subjects we've been dissecting for years. 4. Where's your public track record?
:thumbdown: :)I too am impressed with your restraint in responding to this toolish post.

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1. I update rankings every week.

To clarify, I don't care how often the FBG staff updates their rankings. I understand how time can be stretched during the season, and I don't even expect that they would update their rankings regularly. I'm not a subscriber, so there's certainly no animosity on my part. My point was that their McFadden rankings may not reflect this season's work as much as preseason expectations. Edited by Fear & Loathing

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I believe you need a Rotoworld membership to view F & L's updated rankings.

Good to know. Thanks. :(I knew he was writing for Rotoworld, but he'd made comments in the past that redraft articles were taking up his time. I didn't know the dynasty ranks were being updated behind the pay wall. Edited by PranksterJD

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1. I update rankings every week.

2. I called Arian Foster less than a month after he went undrafted in 2009. That call was published in the Beckett/Rotoworld magazine in June of 2009. I also called that situation throughout the summer on Twitter and in this very thread.

3. I don't care to re-do any of my answers. I think you should re-think the self-righteous attitude you've brought to this thread since you showed up assuming you were going to enlighten us on subjects we've been dissecting for years.

4. Where's your public track record?

Could you provide a link? I miss checking the Sons of the Tundra site to see your updates.

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1. I update rankings every week.

2. I called Arian Foster less than a month after he went undrafted in 2009. That call was published in the Beckett/Rotoworld magazine in June of 2009. I also called that situation throughout the summer on Twitter and in this very thread.

3. I don't care to re-do any of my answers. I think you should re-think the self-righteous attitude you've brought to this thread since you showed up assuming you were going to enlighten us on subjects we've been dissecting for years.

4. Where's your public track record?

Could you provide a link? I miss checking the Sons of the Tundra site to see your updates.
+1

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Is Ronnie Brown a short-term (1-1.5 years) buy-low dynasty play? I realize he looks done but maybe he can rebound a touch and be a RB3...

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1. When was your last set of rankings? And how exacty are your ranking ahead of the times? Behind, if anything. Since you haven't updated them during the season, this should be easy. Using your rankings, what did you predict ahead of time, what makes your rankings worth anything more than an ADP list? 2. I am not fighting anyone's battles. I am pointing out a silly comment, and making points of my own.3. 3 games of his, 1 youtube clip, as I posted.4. So McFadden is showing you the same things Peterson and CJ did? Huh. Okay.5. Speed, fine. Falling forward? That is a cop out, if I have ever heard one. So he is fast and can catch and that makes him elite, so much so that you compare him to the 2 best backs in the game? Where does Darren Sproles rank...pretty damn close, eh?6. I think you should re-do #5. I would if I were you. Fast, can catch, and falls forward (:rolleyes: ) does not equal elite. 7. Post some of your "film". Help us that don't scout understand. We would love to see what you look at.8. You can't claim to have felt that Arian Foster was special, and then not rank him accordingly. :thumbdown: You "knew" he was special in August but ranked him as an average RB2 in your rankings? I don't think you are being honest about that part. No need to lie. We all missed the boat on Foster.

1. I update rankings every week.2. I called Arian Foster less than a month after he went undrafted in 2009. That call was published in the Beckett/Rotoworld magazine in June of 2009. I also called that situation throughout the summer on Twitter and in this very thread. 3. I don't care to re-do any of my answers. I think you should re-think the self-righteous attitude you've brought to this thread since you showed up assuming you were going to enlighten us on subjects we've been dissecting for years. 4. Where's your public track record?
1. I must need to look elsewhere and will do so.2. I was talking about your #19 ranking in September, which is where most had him. 3. I agree with you. I get carried away, and debate in a manner that comes off the wrong way. I acually enjoy posters that do the same, as I enjoy going back and forth in that manner, which is why I enjoy Herm23 and SSOG, even though they might not enjoy my posts much.4. There isn't one, as I have only been on the site since April of this year.

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Is Ronnie Brown a short-term (1-1.5 years) buy-low dynasty play? I realize he looks done but maybe he can rebound a touch and be a RB3...

I really like Ronnie as a buy low. Of course, you have to know what you are getting, with the injury concerns. He is not the guy he was at times last year, even. But I think Ricky retires soon, and I don't think the Phins go RB early this year in the draft. I think you can get him for peanuts, and he is a good risk to take. He is a guy I would be looking at, if I felt I could win next year.

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2. I was talking about your #19 ranking in September, which is where most had him.

:goodposting:

19 was a pretty strong ranking for him pre-W1. Ahead of Grant, Forte, Mccoy, Felix. Look at SSOG's ranking history if you need more proof. It turns out it was still too low, but it was still ahead of the curve. Please, if you want to pick on people for weak Foster rankings, there are better targets.

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I think Ray Rice has been a bust in re-draft this year, but I'd bet his future is bright in Balto, and all he needs is more goalline touches and/or a mcgahee purge to be elite under any rubric.ONE thing, though, that I bet helps all is dynasty is that the average footballguy gets bedazzled with random input from people that have an inherent PPR bias. THAT NOISE interferes with many signals, and most of us can gain leverage from that.

I don't think it is a Willis McGahee issue. I think it is a Ray Rice/Goal line issue. I saw a metric last season - I can't remember what exactly it was measuring - and Willis was twice as effective inside the 20. The percentages were something like 40% to 20%. I saw it on TV, so maybe someone here will remember. I remember thinking that the 20% was really low and the 40% was only slightly above average.In other words, I think when Willis leaves, another short yardage back will closely follow in his role with the Ravens. Good point about the PPR. In re-draft, there was no reason for Rice to be top 4 (non-PPR) and he often was. Gore outscored him last year (per game), and was the safer bet to repeat those numbers.

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2. I was talking about your #19 ranking in September, which is where most had him.

:thumbup:

19 was a pretty strong ranking for him pre-W1. Ahead of Grant, Forte, Mccoy, Felix. Look at SSOG's ranking history if you need more proof. It turns out it was still too low, but it was still ahead of the curve. Please, if you want to pick on people for weak Foster rankings, there are better targets.

I just think it is easy to say that you thought Foster was elite, or doing things that CJ2k and AP were doing, after the fact. That said, I have no issue with the #19 ranking. It was higher than I would have ranked him, by at least 4 or 5 spots. Kudos on that. But if you felt the guy was going to be elite, I question why one wouldn't rank him as elite.

And if I wanted to pick on anyone re: Foster, I would start with myself. I am still not comfortable with the guy, and have only recently accepted the fact that he is top 10-15. I have no bones to pick there, as well as not room to talk in that regard.

Edited by Concept Coop

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2. I was talking about your #19 ranking in September, which is where most had him.

:thumbup:

19 was a pretty strong ranking for him pre-W1. Ahead of Grant, Forte, Mccoy, Felix. Look at SSOG's ranking history if you need more proof. It turns out it was still too low, but it was still ahead of the curve. Please, if you want to pick on people for weak Foster rankings, there are better targets.

I just think it is easy to say that you thought Foster was elite, or doing things that CJ2k and AP were doing, after the fact. That said, I have no issue with the #19 ranking. It was higher than I would have ranked him, by at least 4 or 5 spots. Kudos on that. But if you felt the guy was going to be elite, I question why one wouldn't rank him as elite.
There are gut rankings and there are rankings you publish on a high profile site like Rotoworld where you have to take into account speaking for all of dynasty football. Ranking Foster at 19 is enough to signal a "buy." Just like his strong rankings for Knox and Jacoby were signals to buy.

I think if F&L had Foster on a team and got offered Shonne Greene (to pull a name from the higher tier) for him in August, he would have held Foster. Not that I know that personally, but just putting Foster at 19 signals a strong gut favoring towards Foster and his comments on Greene have never been good. He just has to account for the world's valuing of Greene somehow given most assumed he'd just step into TJ's numbers and keep things rolling.

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2. I was talking about your #19 ranking in September, which is where most had him.

:shrug:

19 was a pretty strong ranking for him pre-W1. Ahead of Grant, Forte, Mccoy, Felix. Look at SSOG's ranking history if you need more proof. It turns out it was still too low, but it was still ahead of the curve. Please, if you want to pick on people for weak Foster rankings, there are better targets.

I just think it is easy to say that you thought Foster was elite, or doing things that CJ2k and AP were doing, after the fact. That said, I have no issue with the #19 ranking. It was higher than I would have ranked him, by at least 4 or 5 spots. Kudos on that. But if you felt the guy was going to be elite, I question why one wouldn't rank him as elite.
There are gut rankings and there are rankings you publish on a high profile site like Rotoworld where you have to take into account speaking for all of dynasty football. Ranking Foster at 19 is enough to signal a "buy." Just like his strong rankings for Knox and Jacoby were signals to buy.

I think if F&L had Foster on a team and got offered Shonne Greene (to pull a name from the higher tier) for him in August, he would have held Foster. Not that I know that personally, but just putting Foster at 19 signals a strong gut favoring towards Foster and his comments on Greene have never been good. He just has to account for the world's valuing of Greene somehow given most assumed he'd just step into TJ's numbers and keep things rolling.

That makes sense, and if you are correct then I was wrong, based on the fact that the ranking was not an accurate view of his personal ranking, but rather roto's.

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Are F&L's updated dynasty rankings behind a pay wall now? I can't find them.

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Just a word of advice:

If you're a rebuilding team looking for cornerstone players to acquire for a reasonable price, go get Demaryius Thomas. I liked him a lot as a draft prospect and he hasn't disappointed at all in the NFL. One of the knocks on him coming out of Tech was that he was all straight line speed with poor agility, but that simply isn't the case. He's about 6'3" 230 and he moves as fluidly as a guy who's 5'10" 190. Case in point:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...as-31-yard-gain

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...homas-KO-return

If he can stay healthy and motivated, he's a future top 10 WR. The only reason his stats are so low is because he's not getting targets. Use that to your advantage if the Thomas owner in your league isn't a true believer and make an offer while he's still available. He's younger/more talented than probably 10-15 of the receivers you can trade for him.

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Just a word of advice:

If you're a rebuilding team looking for cornerstone players to acquire for a reasonable price, go get Demaryius Thomas. I liked him a lot as a draft prospect and he hasn't disappointed at all in the NFL. One of the knocks on him coming out of Tech was that he was all straight line speed with poor agility, but that simply isn't the case. He's about 6'3" 230 and he moves as fluidly as a guy who's 5'10" 190. Case in point:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...as-31-yard-gain

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...homas-KO-return

If he can stay healthy and motivated, he's a future top 10 WR. The only reason his stats are so low is because he's not getting targets. Use that to your advantage if the Thomas owner in your league isn't a true believer and make an offer while he's still available. He's younger/more talented than probably 10-15 of the receivers you can trade for him.

I agree. They are bringing him along slowly which isnt a bad thing but from what i have seen he screams future stud to me.

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