What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Dynasty Rankings (8 Viewers)

Something to keep in mind about Felix Jones' chances as a feature back:

Hard Knocks 2008, Episode 1 (starts at 17:43 in the link): http://www.hulu.com/watch/123903/hard-knoc...-cowboys-show-1

Jerry Jones: "[it looks like Mendenhall or Felix]. Give me your thoughts on those."

Jason Garrett: "One guy is an every-down back. The other is a special, complementary back. We have to remember that we have an every-down back in Marion Barber here. Felix complements our guy really well right now. "

That's not to say Felix Jones can't eventually exceed those expectations, but the current head coach clearly did not see him as an workhorse when he advocated drafting him.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I forgot about hard knocks.....

I wouldn't put it past the cowboys to be locked into their view from two years ago. Barber has surely changed, maybe Jones has as well?

 
Concept Coop said:
thriftyrocker said:
Concept Coop said:
thriftyrocker said:
Concept Coop said:
Name one NFL RB that was 5'10" 220+ and couldn't handle a 20 carry day.
Click to expand...
Marion Barber?
Click to expand...
Marion has had a number of 20 carry/games in his career. If you are referring to the fact that he has fallen off, I don't know that your point applies to Felix at all - they have two very different running styles.So again, what does the fact that Marion Barber has fallen off have to do with Felix Jones?
Click to expand...
The fact that he is 5'10" and 220 and was much more effective in a limited role. Just pulling your chain, mostly. Since it was such a convenient example. :thumbup: If your question is how many speed backs who bulked up to 220 have then not been able to maintain effectiveness due to workload, then I am not even sure who that applies to. It'd only apply to the post-CJ4.24 world, Coop - there's not much history to work on.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, although I wouldn't limit it to speed backs. I would say most backs, even. I am more worried about Ahmad Bradshaw, who gets 20 carry games quite a bit, lasting long term than I am Felix Jones.I just don't understand the logic behind statements like this: "He hasn't had 20 carries yet, so he can't handle the load." Hello! He is the backup/COP cog in a RBBC at the moment, and has been to this point. What do you expect? But the fact remains that his weight suggests that he can carry the load. And until he shows us that he can't, why is it logical to assume he can't?
Click to expand...
His coaches dont think he can, therefore he wont ever show you if he can or cant
 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
His coaches dont think he can, therefore he wont ever show you if he can or cant
Click to expand...
We don't know who his coaches will be next season. Also, his coaches run a RBBC. That doesn't meant that they don't feel Felix can carry the load, just that it is not ideal to have a single back carry it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Inspiration said:
Something to keep in mind about Felix Jones' chances as a feature back:

Hard Knocks 2008, Episode 1 (starts at 17:43 in the link): http://www.hulu.com/watch/123903/hard-knoc...-cowboys-show-1

Jerry Jones: "[it looks like Mendenhall or Felix]. Give me your thoughts on those."

Jason Garrett: "One guy is an every-down back. The other is a special, complementary back. We have to remember that we have an every-down back in Marion Barber here. Felix complements our guy really well right now. "

That's not to say Felix Jones can't eventually exceed those expectations, but the current head coach clearly did not see him as an workhorse when he advocated drafting him.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this! I had never heard this conversation.
 
Concept Coop said:
thriftyrocker said:
Concept Coop said:
thriftyrocker said:
Concept Coop said:
Name one NFL RB that was 5'10" 220+ and couldn't handle a 20 carry day.
Click to expand...
Marion Barber?
Click to expand...
Marion has had a number of 20 carry/games in his career. If you are referring to the fact that he has fallen off, I don't know that your point applies to Felix at all - they have two very different running styles.So again, what does the fact that Marion Barber has fallen off have to do with Felix Jones?
Click to expand...
The fact that he is 5'10" and 220 and was much more effective in a limited role. Just pulling your chain, mostly. Since it was such a convenient example. :boxing: If your question is how many speed backs who bulked up to 220 have then not been able to maintain effectiveness due to workload, then I am not even sure who that applies to. It'd only apply to the post-CJ4.24 world, Coop - there's not much history to work on.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, although I wouldn't limit it to speed backs. I would say most backs, even. I am more worried about Ahmad Bradshaw, who gets 20 carry games quite a bit, lasting long term than I am Felix Jones.I just don't understand the logic behind statements like this: "He hasn't had 20 carries yet, so he can't handle the load." Hello! He is the backup/COP cog in a RBBC at the moment, and has been to this point. What do you expect? But the fact remains that his weight suggests that he can carry the load. And until he shows us that he can't, why is it logical to assume he can't?
Click to expand...
Actually his coaches do think he can't handle the role. Watch the clip.
 
Concept Coop said:
thriftyrocker said:
Concept Coop said:
thriftyrocker said:
Concept Coop said:
Name one NFL RB that was 5'10" 220+ and couldn't handle a 20 carry day.
Click to expand...
Marion Barber?
Click to expand...
Marion has had a number of 20 carry/games in his career. If you are referring to the fact that he has fallen off, I don't know that your point applies to Felix at all - they have two very different running styles.So again, what does the fact that Marion Barber has fallen off have to do with Felix Jones?
Click to expand...
The fact that he is 5'10" and 220 and was much more effective in a limited role. Just pulling your chain, mostly. Since it was such a convenient example. :hifive: If your question is how many speed backs who bulked up to 220 have then not been able to maintain effectiveness due to workload, then I am not even sure who that applies to. It'd only apply to the post-CJ4.24 world, Coop - there's not much history to work on.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, although I wouldn't limit it to speed backs. I would say most backs, even. I am more worried about Ahmad Bradshaw, who gets 20 carry games quite a bit, lasting long term than I am Felix Jones.I just don't understand the logic behind statements like this: "He hasn't had 20 carries yet, so he can't handle the load." Hello! He is the backup/COP cog in a RBBC at the moment, and has been to this point. What do you expect? But the fact remains that his weight suggests that he can carry the load. And until he shows us that he can't, why is it logical to assume he can't?
Click to expand...
You may be worried about Bradshaw holding up, but let's say he continues his production through this season and next, then has a career ending injury in week 1 of 2012 season.Felix is still producing great stats...per touch on 9-14 touches a game.Wouldn't you rather have had this year and next year top 5-10 production and then nothing than a guy who isn't startable for 8 seasons? If he never sees my starting lineup except when I have bye issues and am forced to put him in and hope for the best...he's practically valueless to me. Useless. Another thing against him is that the last time he came close to "carrying the load" he was in.....high school. It was what, almost 10 years ago at this point?Here are his COLLEGIATE carry numbers, you know, when the best guys often see an exorbitantly HIGH number of carries...9 carries per game11 carries per game10.3 carries per gameSo, still not a decent workload. Oh, and receptions? 1 rec/game, college career. 2008 - 5 carries per game2009 - 8.28 carries per gameI can't find his high school stats, but I've been trying to see if he was actually used more way back then. For all I know, he was just as sparingly used then too.
 
Inspiration said:
Something to keep in mind about Felix Jones' chances as a feature back:

Hard Knocks 2008, Episode 1 (starts at 17:43 in the link): http://www.hulu.com/watch/123903/hard-knoc...-cowboys-show-1

Jerry Jones: "[it looks like Mendenhall or Felix]. Give me your thoughts on those."

Jason Garrett: "One guy is an every-down back. The other is a special, complementary back. We have to remember that we have an every-down back in Marion Barber here. Felix complements our guy really well right now. "

That's not to say Felix Jones can't eventually exceed those expectations, but the current head coach clearly did not see him as an workhorse when he advocated drafting him.
Click to expand...
Jerry spit the bit on this one just like when they had a chance to draft S-Jax but traded down and grabbed Julius instead. That was Parcells' move but it set the franchise back all the same.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Concept Coop said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
His coaches dont think he can, therefore he wont ever show you if he can or cant
Click to expand...
We don't know who his coaches will be next season. Also, his coaches run a RBBC. That doesn't meant that they don't feel Felix can carry the load, just that it is not ideal to have a single back carry it.
Click to expand...
thats the same thing people said about Jerious Norwood.Felix is pretty much Norwoord
 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Concept Coop said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
His coaches dont think he can, therefore he wont ever show you if he can or cant
Click to expand...
We don't know who his coaches will be next season. Also, his coaches run a RBBC. That doesn't meant that they don't feel Felix can carry the load, just that it is not ideal to have a single back carry it.
Click to expand...
thats the same thing people said about Jerious Norwood.Felix is pretty much Norwoord
Click to expand...
Based on what? What about their games are alike? What does Norwood lack, that prevents him from being an everydown back, that also applies to Felix?You could have said the same think about CJ and JC, before they got their chances and ran with them.
 
Concept Coop said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Concept Coop said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
His coaches dont think he can, therefore he wont ever show you if he can or cant
Click to expand...
We don't know who his coaches will be next season. Also, his coaches run a RBBC. That doesn't meant that they don't feel Felix can carry the load, just that it is not ideal to have a single back carry it.
Click to expand...
thats the same thing people said about Jerious Norwood.Felix is pretty much Norwoord
Click to expand...
Based on what? What about their games are alike? What does Norwood lack, that prevents him from being an everydown back, that also applies to Felix?You could have said the same think about CJ and JC, before they got their chances and ran with them.
Click to expand...
Their games are very simialr in that they are home run hitters with high ypc that get limited touches in RBBC, seemed to both be nicked up all the time. And their dynasty owners are beggin their teams to get them a bigger piece of the pie then real NFL teams will give them.
 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Concept Coop said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Concept Coop said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
His coaches dont think he can, therefore he wont ever show you if he can or cant
Click to expand...
We don't know who his coaches will be next season. Also, his coaches run a RBBC. That doesn't meant that they don't feel Felix can carry the load, just that it is not ideal to have a single back carry it.
Click to expand...
thats the same thing people said about Jerious Norwood.Felix is pretty much Norwoord
Click to expand...
Based on what? What about their games are alike? What does Norwood lack, that prevents him from being an everydown back, that also applies to Felix?You could have said the same think about CJ and JC, before they got their chances and ran with them.
Click to expand...
Their games are very simialr in that they are home run hitters with high ypc that get limited touches in RBBC, seemed to both be nicked up all the time. And their dynasty owners are beggin their teams to get them a bigger piece of the pie then real NFL teams will give them.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I would say that is accurate. But I don't think that does anything to say that Felix CAN'T carry the load.
 
I usually don't post trades in this forum mainly because it's not made for that however, there's a deal on the table that I am having a really tough time with and I need some expert opinions. All help would be greatly appreciated

I'm in the third year of my 12 team dynasty league non ppr

My RB crop consists of Gore, Chris Johnson, Snelling, Fred Jackson and Blount. I recently got offered the following trade and was wondering whether or not I should take it or leave it

2nd round pick (currently the worst team in the league)

2nd round pick (will probably end up being somewhere in the middle of the second round)

For

Blount

so its 2 second round picks for Blount. I am thin at depth when it comes to RB however, value wise it seems like a pretty decent deal. Do you think I should take the deal or leave it?

thanks in advance

 
Steelers22 said:
I usually don't post trades in this forum mainly because it's not made for that however, there's a deal on the table that I am having a really tough time with and I need some expert opinions. All help would be greatly appreciated I'm in the third year of my 12 team dynasty league non pprMy RB crop consists of Gore, Chris Johnson, Snelling, Fred Jackson and Blount. I recently got offered the following trade and was wondering whether or not I should take it or leave it2nd round pick (currently the worst team in the league)2nd round pick (will probably end up being somewhere in the middle of the second round)For Blountso its 2 second round picks for Blount. I am thin at depth when it comes to RB however, value wise it seems like a pretty decent deal. Do you think I should take the deal or leave it?thanks in advance
Click to expand...
I would keep Blount. I am not a fan of his talent and might take the deal on draft day. But, like you said, you are thin at RB. I would pass, and reevaluate at the end of the season.
 
Steelers22 said:
I usually don't post trades in this forum mainly because it's not made for that however, there's a deal on the table that I am having a really tough time with and I need some expert opinions. All help would be greatly appreciated

I'm in the third year of my 12 team dynasty league non ppr

My RB crop consists of Gore, Chris Johnson, Snelling, Fred Jackson and Blount. I recently got offered the following trade and was wondering whether or not I should take it or leave it

2nd round pick (currently the worst team in the league)

2nd round pick (will probably end up being somewhere in the middle of the second round)

For

Blount

so its 2 second round picks for Blount. I am thin at depth when it comes to RB however, value wise it seems like a pretty decent deal. Do you think I should take the deal or leave it?

thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Meh. I wouldn't so it. The waiver wire is usually littered with players people took in the second round of rookie drafts. While Blount may have already had his career game and could slink back into obscurity - he has shown that he is capable of doing something at this level. Something those picks may never show.
 
What is the dynasty perspective on Darren McFadden?

Obviously, the way he is going he would be a top 5-7 RB in the 2011 drafts at this point at a minimum. He is part of a small group of RBs that get a majority of the GL looks and receptions in an offense.

He was the #4 pick in the NFL draft - he has pedigree and had good success in college against top competition.

Each successful game in 2010 will probably entrench him further as the #1 guy ahead of M.Bush.

Other than Al Davis being unpredictable (actually his last few draft picks have been quite logical for some reason), why would Oakland draft a RB in 2011?

Is health the only thing that would prevent him from being a top FF RB for the "as long as we look ahead in FF" future?

 
fdctrumpet said:
What is the dynasty perspective on Darren McFadden?
Click to expand...
McFadden has been discussed thoroughly since the start of the season in this thread, but let me save you time reviewing old posts - EBF says McFadden still hasn't shown the potential to be an above average starting RB, while just about everyone else says otherwise.
 
squistion said:
fdctrumpet said:
What is the dynasty perspective on Darren McFadden?
Click to expand...
McFadden has been discussed thoroughly since the start of the season in this thread, but let me save you time reviewing old posts - EBF says McFadden still hasn't shown the potential to be an above average starting RB, while just about everyone else says otherwise.
Click to expand...
I agree with EBF, for the record. I am still not convinced that he can move the pile when there is no hole, to pick up the tough yards and scrap out a first down or TD. Also, I am not convinced that he can stay healthy for a full season. If you can't do that, all the talent in the world doesn't matter.
 
az_prof said:
Also, I am not convinced that he can stay healthy for a full season. If you can't do that, all the talent in the world doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
He missed 3 games in his rookie season, 4 games last year, and 2 games so far this year. If he misses 4 games every year but puts up high PPG in the other 12 games, like he's doing this year, there is plenty of value in that. We all have backup RBs we can plug in for byes and injuries. Obviously, it would hold his value down compared to what it would be in 16 games, but to suggest that his talent doesn't matter if he can't play 16 games is pretty far off base IMO.
 
az_prof said:
squistion said:
fdctrumpet said:
What is the dynasty perspective on Darren McFadden?
Click to expand...
McFadden has been discussed thoroughly since the start of the season in this thread, but let me save you time reviewing old posts - EBF says McFadden still hasn't shown the potential to be an above average starting RB, while just about everyone else says otherwise.
Click to expand...
I agree with EBF, for the record. I am still not convinced that he can move the pile when there is no hole, to pick up the tough yards and scrap out a first down or TD. Also, I am not convinced that he can stay healthy for a full season. If you can't do that, all the talent in the world doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
What would it take to convince you? I'm curious. Is it that he hasn't shown he can do it aside from this year or is it that you don't think he's been doing it yet?

 
gianmarco said:
az_prof said:
squistion said:
fdctrumpet said:
What is the dynasty perspective on Darren McFadden?
Click to expand...
McFadden has been discussed thoroughly since the start of the season in this thread, but let me save you time reviewing old posts - EBF says McFadden still hasn't shown the potential to be an above average starting RB, while just about everyone else says otherwise.
Click to expand...
I agree with EBF, for the record. I am still not convinced that he can move the pile when there is no hole, to pick up the tough yards and scrap out a first down or TD. Also, I am not convinced that he can stay healthy for a full season. If you can't do that, all the talent in the world doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
What would it take to convince you? I'm curious. Is it that he hasn't shown he can do it aside from this year or is it that you don't think he's been doing it yet?
Click to expand...
I'm with az_prof, and I think two to three years of sustained production would be the only thing that can convince me on McFadden. By then, McFadden will be 26 or 27 and not worth as much anyway.I can't get over those long, skinny legs and upright running. I remain convinced that his career as a starting NFL runner will be a short one.

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Concept Coop said:
I just don't understand the logic behind statements like this: "He hasn't had 20 carries yet, so he can't handle the load." Hello! He is the backup/COP cog in a RBBC at the moment, and has been to this point. What do you expect? But the fact remains that his weight suggests that he can carry the load. And until he shows us that he can't, why is it logical to assume he can't?
Click to expand...
His coaches dont think he can, therefore he wont ever show you if he can or cant
Click to expand...
Coop - what has Felix Jones done to show you to suggest that he can handle a 20 carry per game load?He was not a feature/workhorse in college - and never had more than 154 carries in college. In two and a half years in the pros, he has 250 total carries and never more than 16 carries in a game, and yet he has battled both major and nagging injuries, missed much of his rookie season and a couple of games last year. If I recall, he landed on IR because he tore ligaments while rehabbing a hammy injury. There's no denying he's dynamic with the ball in his hands, but I think it's perfectly logical to question his ability to hold up as a 20+ carry back - and this has NOTHING to do with weight.And unlike a guy like Bradshaw, he hasn't shown he can/will play (and play well) while banged up, which gives me more reason to question whether he can ever be a full-time back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
az_prof said:
corpcow said:
How do you guys feel about Jacoby Ford?
Click to expand...
Flavor of the week. Will be a good return guy and will make some big plays in the slot and deep, but he won't be a reliable fantasy starter IMO.
Click to expand...
I had written him off as a track star return guy, but I have to say I was very impressed after watching bits of the replay of that game. I was impressed not just because of the numbers, but because he ran good routes, fought for the ball in the air, and just generally looked like a WR. Did you (or anyone else) see the game?
 
Richard_the_Vampire said:
gianmarco said:
az_prof said:
squistion said:
fdctrumpet said:
What is the dynasty perspective on Darren McFadden?
Click to expand...
McFadden has been discussed thoroughly since the start of the season in this thread, but let me save you time reviewing old posts - EBF says McFadden still hasn't shown the potential to be an above average starting RB, while just about everyone else says otherwise.
Click to expand...
I agree with EBF, for the record. I am still not convinced that he can move the pile when there is no hole, to pick up the tough yards and scrap out a first down or TD. Also, I am not convinced that he can stay healthy for a full season. If you can't do that, all the talent in the world doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
What would it take to convince you? I'm curious. Is it that he hasn't shown he can do it aside from this year or is it that you don't think he's been doing it yet?
Click to expand...
I'm with az_prof, and I think two to three years of sustained production would be the only thing that can convince me on McFadden. By then, McFadden will be 26 or 27 and not worth as much anyway.I can't get over those long, skinny legs and upright running. I remain convinced that his career as a starting NFL runner will be a short one.
Click to expand...
You need to work on your math skills a little bit. He JUST turned 23 in August. He's already done it this year which counts as one year. If he does it again next year, that's 2 years of "sustained" production. He will be 24 at that time. If you need to see 3 full years (not sure why that's the case, but whatever), then he'd still only be 25. Not sure where 27 is coming from unless you need to see 5 full years of him doing it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
corpcow said:
az_prof said:
corpcow said:
How do you guys feel about Jacoby Ford?
Click to expand...
Flavor of the week. Will be a good return guy and will make some big plays in the slot and deep, but he won't be a reliable fantasy starter IMO.
Click to expand...
I had written him off as a track star return guy, but I have to say I was very impressed after watching bits of the replay of that game. I was impressed not just because of the numbers, but because he ran good routes, fought for the ball in the air, and just generally looked like a WR. Did you (or anyone else) see the game?
Click to expand...
I viewed the game and overall his performance was similar to the bits of replay you saw. Probably he is just a one-week-wonder, but I was so impressed with what I saw that I tried to pick up him in every league but was only successful in one that had blind bidding.
 
just watched all 10 Ford plays on Game Rewind (echoing others - this is a great service for hardcore NFL junkies) . . .

he definitely made some plays with his speed, and he did fight for a ball (albeit only on ONE catch) . . .

still, teams had very little tape on him and 5'8 185 lb receivers rarely play on the outside (Carolina Smith and Santana Moss are the exceptions) . . .

still, if you have him, it's worth holding onto him vs keeping a guy that has a long, mediocre track record . . .

 
duaneok66 said:
just watched all 10 Ford plays on Game Rewind (echoing others - this is a great service for hardcore NFL junkies) . . .

he definitely made some plays with his speed, and he did fight for a ball (albeit only on ONE catch) . . .

still, teams had very little tape on him and 5'8 185 lb receivers rarely play on the outside (Carolina Smith and Santana Moss are the exceptions) . . .
Click to expand...
It's not as uncommon as you think. Derrick Mason, Lee Evans and DeSean Jackson are near Ford's size and have had success playing outside as well (and I imagine there are other plenty of other examples that I am forgetting).
 
gianmarco said:
You need to work on your math skills a little bit. He JUST turned 23 in August. He's already done it this year which counts as one year. If he does it again next year, that's 2 years of "sustained" production. He will be 24 at that time. If you need to see 3 full years (not sure why that's the case, but whatever), then he'd still only be 25. Not sure where 27 is coming from unless you need to see 5 full years of him doing it.
Click to expand...
He hasn't "done it" this year yet. He has played in seven games out of nine. There are seven games remaining.I'll wait with baited breath to see whether McFadden can stay healthy over the remaining seven games.
 
corpcow said:
az_prof said:
corpcow said:
How do you guys feel about Jacoby Ford?
Click to expand...
Flavor of the week. Will be a good return guy and will make some big plays in the slot and deep, but he won't be a reliable fantasy starter IMO.
Click to expand...
I had written him off as a track star return guy, but I have to say I was very impressed after watching bits of the replay of that game. I was impressed not just because of the numbers, but because he ran good routes, fought for the ball in the air, and just generally looked like a WR. Did you (or anyone else) see the game?
Click to expand...
I saw it. It's just that I have seen guys have one game like that in the past only to disappear. He is definitely worth rostering and he could become a star, but that is true of about 60 other guys.
 
Inspiration said:
duaneok66 said:
just watched all 10 Ford plays on Game Rewind (echoing others - this is a great service for hardcore NFL junkies) . . .

he definitely made some plays with his speed, and he did fight for a ball (albeit only on ONE catch) . . .

still, teams had very little tape on him and 5'8 185 lb receivers rarely play on the outside (Carolina Smith and Santana Moss are the exceptions) . . .
Click to expand...
It's not as uncommon as you think. Derrick Mason, Lee Evans and DeSean Jackson are near Ford's size and have had success playing outside as well (and I imagine there are other plenty of other examples that I am forgetting).
Click to expand...
No. Evans and Mason are 197.Steve Smith and Desean Jackson are the only stars I can think of who are that small. But they are the exceptions that proves the rule. Doesn't mean that Jacoby can't be a star, but the odds for a player his size are against him.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Inspiration said:
duaneok66 said:
just watched all 10 Ford plays on Game Rewind (echoing others - this is a great service for hardcore NFL junkies) . . .

he definitely made some plays with his speed, and he did fight for a ball (albeit only on ONE catch) . . .

still, teams had very little tape on him and 5'8 185 lb receivers rarely play on the outside (Carolina Smith and Santana Moss are the exceptions) . . .
Click to expand...
It's not as uncommon as you think. Derrick Mason, Lee Evans and DeSean Jackson are near Ford's size and have had success playing outside as well (and I imagine there are other plenty of other examples that I am forgetting).
Click to expand...
Mason is 5-10

Evans is 5-10 and 202 lbs

Jackson is 6 feet tall . . .

 
duaneok66 said:
Inspiration said:
duaneok66 said:
just watched all 10 Ford plays on Game Rewind (echoing others - this is a great service for hardcore NFL junkies) . . .

he definitely made some plays with his speed, and he did fight for a ball (albeit only on ONE catch) . . .

still, teams had very little tape on him and 5'8 185 lb receivers rarely play on the outside (Carolina Smith and Santana Moss are the exceptions) . . .
Click to expand...
It's not as uncommon as you think. Derrick Mason, Lee Evans and DeSean Jackson are near Ford's size and have had success playing outside as well (and I imagine there are other plenty of other examples that I am forgetting).
Click to expand...
Mason is 5-10

Evans is 5-10 and 202 lbs

Jackson is 6 feet tall . . .
Click to expand...
Ford is listed at 5-10 as well (Hint: he's not 5-10 and neither are some of the other guys listed at 5-10). DeSean Jackson measured at 5-9 1/2 in the combine and I would guess that he hasn't grown 2 1/2 inches in the past two years. The same listing shenanigans apply to player weight as well.
 
Instinctive said:
You may be worried about Bradshaw holding up, but let's say he continues his production through this season and next, then has a career ending injury in week 1 of 2012 season.

Felix is still producing great stats...per touch on 9-14 touches a game.

Wouldn't you rather have had this year and next year top 5-10 production and then nothing than a guy who isn't startable for 8 seasons? If he never sees my starting lineup except when I have bye issues and am forced to put him in and hope for the best...he's practically valueless to me. Useless.

Another thing against him is that the last time he came close to "carrying the load" he was in.....high school. It was what, almost 10 years ago at this point?

Here are his COLLEGIATE carry numbers, you know, when the best guys often see an exorbitantly HIGH number of carries...

9 carries per game

11 carries per game

10.3 carries per game

So, still not a decent workload. Oh, and receptions? 1 rec/game, college career.

2008 - 5 carries per game

2009 - 8.28 carries per game

I can't find his high school stats, but I've been trying to see if he was actually used more way back then. For all I know, he was just as sparingly used then too.
Click to expand...
I may be missing something here...but, how do we know Bradshaw will be the one to get hurt game 1 of next season? How do you know it won't be Felix? After all, Bradshaw has shown he plays hurt. Felix? Not so much. So of course you would rather have a guy who is still producing when another guy is hurt and has a career ending injury. But that is just as likely to be Felix. Maybe more.
 
duaneok66 said:
Inspiration said:
duaneok66 said:
just watched all 10 Ford plays on Game Rewind (echoing others - this is a great service for hardcore NFL junkies) . . .

he definitely made some plays with his speed, and he did fight for a ball (albeit only on ONE catch) . . .

still, teams had very little tape on him and 5'8 185 lb receivers rarely play on the outside (Carolina Smith and Santana Moss are the exceptions) . . .
Click to expand...
It's not as uncommon as you think. Derrick Mason, Lee Evans and DeSean Jackson are near Ford's size and have had success playing outside as well (and I imagine there are other plenty of other examples that I am forgetting).
Click to expand...
Mason is 5-10

Evans is 5-10 and 202 lbs

Jackson is 6 feet tall . . .
Click to expand...
DeSean Jackson is not 6 feet tall.
 
todisco1 said:
duaneok66 said:
Inspiration said:
duaneok66 said:
just watched all 10 Ford plays on Game Rewind (echoing others - this is a great service for hardcore NFL junkies) . . .

he definitely made some plays with his speed, and he did fight for a ball (albeit only on ONE catch) . . .

still, teams had very little tape on him and 5'8 185 lb receivers rarely play on the outside (Carolina Smith and Santana Moss are the exceptions) . . .
Click to expand...
It's not as uncommon as you think. Derrick Mason, Lee Evans and DeSean Jackson are near Ford's size and have had success playing outside as well (and I imagine there are other plenty of other examples that I am forgetting).
Click to expand...
Mason is 5-10

Evans is 5-10 and 202 lbs

Jackson is 6 feet tall . . .
Click to expand...
DeSean Jackson is not 6 feet tall.
Click to expand...
good call on Jackson - PFW draaft guide lists him at 5-9 3/4 . . .

still, the original point about the odds against Ford holds - he's short . . .

 
johnadams said:
HenryMuto said:
Go deep said:
HenryMuto said:
Bush or McFadden who has more long term upside PPR dynasty ?
Click to expand...
Its pretty close. I think Bush is a bit safer pick, but Mcfadden has more upside. So if youre the gambling type, go with Mcfadden, if youre not, take Bush.Call me crazy, but i still think Mcfadden can become a 225 carry, 50 rec, top 15 type RB. I dont think Bush will ever be that, but he should be good for 1000 total yards and 50-60 catches each year for the next 3-4 seasons. This is if you were talking about Reggie Bush. Assuming Michael, i would take Mcfadden for sure. I think they both end up with a similar amount of carries, but Mcfadden should get alot more catches. Not to mention Mcfadden is 4 years younger.
Click to expand...
Or sorry I was talking Michael Bush
Click to expand...
I'd take Bush even with the age difference. McFadden will never be successful in OAK where the forward lateral is considered innovative. McF needs an OC that can get creative. Plus, he's an injury waiting to happen (which I think most OAK players privately wish for). Bush isn't exactly durable and has spent time in the coaches doghouse, but is a far superior true RB and should have more value for the next 2 years. Considering that I think McF hasn't got much of a chance to be FF relevant any time soon, I'd go with Bush even at a shorter career.
Click to expand...
J-Dawg said:
To be perfectly honest, McFadden is one more disappointing year away from being slapped with the bust label if you ask me. Sure he was a beast coming out of college but he hasn't done anything yet to convince me that he's going to fulfill that potential in the NFL and Bush has looked like the far superior RB in Oak. I don't know why so many people are seemingly high on McFadden when he's done virtually nothing but disappoint his owners for 2 years. In 2 years he's only managed to score 5 TDs (FIVE!!!) and 856 yards on 217 carries with only a single 100 yard game to his name, that's not even 4 yards per carry. He's proven nothing thus far and the only thing he has proven is that he can't stay healthy and lacks good vision. This is a make or break year for McFadden and based on his career thus far, I'm not anticipating anything other than the status quo. Bush is the RB to own for the Raiders.
Click to expand...
Epic fail on this advice back in August.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
az_prof said:
Instinctive said:
You may be worried about Bradshaw holding up, but let's say he continues his production through this season and next, then has a career ending injury in week 1 of 2012 season.

Felix is still producing great stats...per touch on 9-14 touches a game.

Wouldn't you rather have had this year and next year top 5-10 production and then nothing than a guy who isn't startable for 8 seasons? If he never sees my starting lineup except when I have bye issues and am forced to put him in and hope for the best...he's practically valueless to me. Useless.

Another thing against him is that the last time he came close to "carrying the load" he was in.....high school. It was what, almost 10 years ago at this point?

Here are his COLLEGIATE carry numbers, you know, when the best guys often see an exorbitantly HIGH number of carries...

9 carries per game

11 carries per game

10.3 carries per game

So, still not a decent workload. Oh, and receptions? 1 rec/game, college career.

2008 - 5 carries per game

2009 - 8.28 carries per game

I can't find his high school stats, but I've been trying to see if he was actually used more way back then. For all I know, he was just as sparingly used then too.
Click to expand...
I may be missing something here...but, how do we know Bradshaw will be the one to get hurt game 1 of next season? How do you know it won't be Felix? After all, Bradshaw has shown he plays hurt. Felix? Not so much. So of course you would rather have a guy who is still producing when another guy is hurt and has a career ending injury. But that is just as likely to be Felix. Maybe more.
Click to expand...
I must have spoken wrong, because I was implying that EVEN IF he got the season ending injury, I would rather have had a whole season of top 5 numbers from Bradshaw than the tantalizing, but useless, production Felix does, and will probably always, put up. One season of 300 points is better than 10 seasons of 50 points.
 
duaneok66 said:
todisco1 said:
duaneok66 said:
Inspiration said:
duaneok66 said:
just watched all 10 Ford plays on Game Rewind (echoing others - this is a great service for hardcore NFL junkies) . . .

he definitely made some plays with his speed, and he did fight for a ball (albeit only on ONE catch) . . .

still, teams had very little tape on him and 5'8 185 lb receivers rarely play on the outside (Carolina Smith and Santana Moss are the exceptions) . . .
Click to expand...
It's not as uncommon as you think. Derrick Mason, Lee Evans and DeSean Jackson are near Ford's size and have had success playing outside as well (and I imagine there are other plenty of other examples that I am forgetting).
Click to expand...
Mason is 5-10

Evans is 5-10 and 202 lbs

Jackson is 6 feet tall . . .
Click to expand...
DeSean Jackson is not 6 feet tall.
Click to expand...
good call on Jackson - PFW draaft guide lists him at 5-9 3/4 . . .

still, the original point about the odds against Ford holds - he's short . . .
Click to expand...
He's definitely short, but I think it's easier for shorter guys to prove their worth these days. Guys like Mike Thomas are on the field and producing despite their height disadvantage. We'll see on Ford, one game doesn't say a whole lot about him, but the WR situation in Oakland seems fluid right now, so there could certainly be opportunities for Ford.
 
corpcow said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Concept Coop said:
I just don't understand the logic behind statements like this: "He hasn't had 20 carries yet, so he can't handle the load." Hello! He is the backup/COP cog in a RBBC at the moment, and has been to this point. What do you expect? But the fact remains that his weight suggests that he can carry the load. And until he shows us that he can't, why is it logical to assume he can't?
Click to expand...
His coaches dont think he can, therefore he wont ever show you if he can or cant
Click to expand...
Coop - what has Felix Jones done to show you to suggest that he can handle a 20 carry per game load?He was not a feature/workhorse in college - and never had more than 154 carries in college. In two and a half years in the pros, he has 250 total carries and never more than 16 carries in a game, and yet he has battled both major and nagging injuries, missed much of his rookie season and a couple of games last year. If I recall, he landed on IR because he tore ligaments while rehabbing a hammy injury. There's no denying he's dynamic with the ball in his hands, but I think it's perfectly logical to question his ability to hold up as a 20+ carry back - and this has NOTHING to do with weight.And unlike a guy like Bradshaw, he hasn't shown he can/will play (and play well) while banged up, which gives me more reason to question whether he can ever be a full-time back.
Click to expand...
Most runningbacks can handle 20 carries a game. Just because he hasn't, I don't think means he can't. Because most can, I think logic suggests assuming one can, until proven otherwise. What is perfectly logical about it? He never got major careers in college due to Darren McFadden. The fact that he got as many as he did is a tribute to him as a college player. McFadden was amazing, even in the SEC. If he wen't to Notre Dame (to pick a random school), he would have had plenty of carries, and would have been the main guy. He is getting more carries than Barber right now. The only reason he isn't getting a great number, is because the Cowboys aren't running the ball enough, mostly due to their offensive line. And, for the record, I would much rather have Bradshaw in a dynasty league, because I will take 2 seasons of top 10 production right now, rather than hope, or even think I will get 2-3 later. I like Bradshaw as a player and just traded a pretty penny for him a few weeks ago.My talk about Bradshaw's injury concern is his legs, which have caused him to play injured his whole career. Unlike Felix's hamstring, Bradshaw's legs will never be 100%. Because of their build (extremely bow) he is always going to incure extra strain as long as he is playing football. That is why I would be more surprised to see Felix's career cut short than Bradshaw's. Well, that and their running styles.
 
When was the last time a rookie RB class produces less than this? I am assuming it has been a while - this has been pretty bad. At least last year - while none topped the 1,000 mark - there were a handfull putting up solid number, even if in spurts. Greene and Wells both looked like locks to be RB1s after a strong 2nd half to the season. Moreno at least looked "good", while McCoy was going to get a shot to be the man, with the Eagles declining to bring in another back.

What do we have this season? Matthews looks "good" at times, about as good as Knowshon looked. Then, what? Best had one moster game, and not much else. He is now losing carries to Keven Smith, of all people, and will be a RBBBC guy next season. Spiller is not getting a shot, and I am hearing it is because he can't run between the tackles. Tate and Hardesty are both long shots to be much, Tate behind Foster, and maybe not talented enough; Hardesty may never be healthy. Toby and Dixon are both stuck as backups. Starks has been hurt. Karim has looked good, but is behind MJD.

This year has got to be close to historically bad for rookie dynasty backs. When was the last time a rookie class didn't produce a 2nd round startup pick the following season? Granted, some will draft Best that high, due to "upside" (I don't see it), but I don't know that there is a rookie RB widely accepted as a 2nd round startup pick.

The only back I will be "buying" at their price, with be Anthony Dixon. He looked great in pre-season and the buzz is now dead, with Gore tearing it up. He could be had for cheap, especially if the owner doesn't have Gore. In start ups next season, he should be an had really late.

 
Concept Coop said:
corpcow said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Concept Coop said:
I just don't understand the logic behind statements like this: "He hasn't had 20 carries yet, so he can't handle the load."

Hello! He is the backup/COP cog in a RBBC at the moment, and has been to this point. What do you expect? But the fact remains that his weight suggests that he can carry the load. And until he shows us that he can't, why is it logical to assume he can't?
Click to expand...
His coaches dont think he can, therefore he wont ever show you if he can or cant
Click to expand...
Coop - what has Felix Jones done to show you to suggest that he can handle a 20 carry per game load?He was not a feature/workhorse in college - and never had more than 154 carries in college. In two and a half years in the pros, he has 250 total carries and never more than 16 carries in a game, and yet he has battled both major and nagging injuries, missed much of his rookie season and a couple of games last year. If I recall, he landed on IR because he tore ligaments while rehabbing a hammy injury.

There's no denying he's dynamic with the ball in his hands, but I think it's perfectly logical to question his ability to hold up as a 20+ carry back - and this has NOTHING to do with weight.

And unlike a guy like Bradshaw, he hasn't shown he can/will play (and play well) while banged up, which gives me more reason to question whether he can ever be a full-time back.
Click to expand...
Most runningbacks can handle 20 carries a game. Just because he hasn't, I don't think means he can't. Because most can, I think logic suggests assuming one can, until proven otherwise.What is perfectly logical about it? He never got major careers in college due to Darren McFadden. The fact that he got as many as he did is a tribute to him as a college player. McFadden was amazing, even in the SEC. If he wen't to Notre Dame (to pick a random school), he would have had plenty of carries, and would have been the main guy.

He is getting more carries than Barber right now. The only reason he isn't getting a great number, is because the Cowboys aren't running the ball enough, mostly due to their offensive line.

And, for the record, I would much rather have Bradshaw in a dynasty league, because I will take 2 seasons of top 10 production right now, rather than hope, or even think I will get 2-3 later. I like Bradshaw as a player and just traded a pretty penny for him a few weeks ago.

My talk about Bradshaw's injury concern is his legs, which have caused him to play injured his whole career. Unlike Felix's hamstring, Bradshaw's legs will never be 100%. Because of their build (extremely bow) he is always going to incure extra strain as long as he is playing football. That is why I would be more surprised to see Felix's career cut short than Bradshaw's. Well, that and their running styles.
Click to expand...
Seriously? Your argument for Felix being able to be a workhorse is that "most runningbacks can handle 20 carries a game?" First, if that was true - why aren't there more workhorse backs? But more importantly.... all evidence points to the opposite. 20+ carries a game takes its toll on any back... and all evidence with Felix shows that he can't shoulder LESS than 20 carries a game. As I said - Felix is a dynamic NFL player, but I think it's a mistake to assume he's going to be a 20+ carry back ever in his career.

 
corpcow said:
Concept Coop said:
corpcow said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Concept Coop said:
I just don't understand the logic behind statements like this: "He hasn't had 20 carries yet, so he can't handle the load."

Hello! He is the backup/COP cog in a RBBC at the moment, and has been to this point. What do you expect? But the fact remains that his weight suggests that he can carry the load. And until he shows us that he can't, why is it logical to assume he can't?
Click to expand...
His coaches dont think he can, therefore he wont ever show you if he can or cant
Click to expand...
Coop - what has Felix Jones done to show you to suggest that he can handle a 20 carry per game load?He was not a feature/workhorse in college - and never had more than 154 carries in college. In two and a half years in the pros, he has 250 total carries and never more than 16 carries in a game, and yet he has battled both major and nagging injuries, missed much of his rookie season and a couple of games last year. If I recall, he landed on IR because he tore ligaments while rehabbing a hammy injury.

There's no denying he's dynamic with the ball in his hands, but I think it's perfectly logical to question his ability to hold up as a 20+ carry back - and this has NOTHING to do with weight.

And unlike a guy like Bradshaw, he hasn't shown he can/will play (and play well) while banged up, which gives me more reason to question whether he can ever be a full-time back.
Click to expand...
Most runningbacks can handle 20 carries a game. Just because he hasn't, I don't think means he can't. Because most can, I think logic suggests assuming one can, until proven otherwise.What is perfectly logical about it? He never got major careers in college due to Darren McFadden. The fact that he got as many as he did is a tribute to him as a college player. McFadden was amazing, even in the SEC. If he wen't to Notre Dame (to pick a random school), he would have had plenty of carries, and would have been the main guy.

He is getting more carries than Barber right now. The only reason he isn't getting a great number, is because the Cowboys aren't running the ball enough, mostly due to their offensive line.

And, for the record, I would much rather have Bradshaw in a dynasty league, because I will take 2 seasons of top 10 production right now, rather than hope, or even think I will get 2-3 later. I like Bradshaw as a player and just traded a pretty penny for him a few weeks ago.

My talk about Bradshaw's injury concern is his legs, which have caused him to play injured his whole career. Unlike Felix's hamstring, Bradshaw's legs will never be 100%. Because of their build (extremely bow) he is always going to incure extra strain as long as he is playing football. That is why I would be more surprised to see Felix's career cut short than Bradshaw's. Well, that and their running styles.
Click to expand...
Seriously? Your argument for Felix being able to be a workhorse is that "most runningbacks can handle 20 carries a game?" First, if that was true - why aren't there more workhorse backs? But more importantly.... all evidence points to the opposite. 20+ carries a game takes its toll on any back... and all evidence with Felix shows that he can't shoulder LESS than 20 carries a game. As I said - Felix is a dynamic NFL player, but I think it's a mistake to assume he's going to be a 20+ carry back ever in his career.
Click to expand...
Why aren't there more? Are you asking me why RBBC's are prevalent? I am not sure what you are asking, as you answer your own question: "20+ carries a game takes its toll on any back... "What evidence shows that he can't shoulder 20 carries a game? His injuries, which had nothing to do with workload and could have happened to anyone? The fact that he played next to two-time Heisman candidate DMC in college? The fact that he was drafted to a team in a pro-bowl RB, to be a COP to said back in today's NFL, that dictates that unless you are Frank Gore, Adrian Peterson, or a small handful of others, you are one of 2 or 3 RBs splitting carries?

I don't know that he will ever be a 20 carry a game back either. Actually, I think you are right to doubt that. But I think he could be a 15/game guy, which would put him at 1,200 rushing yards a season, on top of 400 receiving and whatever touchdowns he scores, with only 5 YPC and 25 rec yards a game - very reasonable.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

eighsse2
General Dynasty Strategy: "Evergreen"
Replies
9
Views
934
Tonycarpenter
Tonycarpenter
Hot Sauce Guy
Dynasty Startup Draft Strategy - what’s yours?
Replies
49
Views
2K
Lunaticum
L
Tonycarpenter
Dynasty 2024 Draft pick Candidates Mid 2023 Season ranking
Replies
0
Views
1K
Tonycarpenter
Tonycarpenter

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 9 (members: 0, guests: 9)
Top