Dynasty Rankings (7 Viewers)

Just Win Baby said:

kremenull said:

Fear & Loathing said:

kremenull said:

Rodgers is right there with the consensus Top 3 (Brady, Manning, and Brees), possibly the 4th of the trio based on proven track record but I'd have a very hard time taking more than one of these guys over Rodgers in a dynasty startup draft.

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kremenull, I respect your opinion, and I like Aaron Rodgers because he's very good. But you may have stumbled on the wrong thread. One thing I've tried all along not to be is consensus. I like Rodgers a lot b/c he's very good, but personally I believe Matt Ryan can be special. And I'm a lot more concerned about anticipation than consensus. I anticipate that Ryan will be a difference maker. I might be wrong, but I'm standing by it.

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No, I was not expecting consensus as I actually do like your approach to rankings and non-consensus thinking. And if Ryan is on the way to being special in your eyes, I don't disagree with that position either. My point is that Rodgers should be considered already there, i.e., special, and already in the highest tier. When you can connect on over 63% of 536 pass attempts at 7.5 ypa with a TD/int of over 2/1, along with a high number of TDs (28), this is no fluke in the NFL. Combine this type of QB play with well-above average athleticism and a very strong arm, and probably one of the most QB-friendly systems along the lines of a Manning or Brees type of situation. With all of these things as an advantage over Ryan, I just don't see how Ryan can outdo him.

I think a good comparison and target point for Ryan is to become a Philip Rivers. This is not a diss on Ryan, not in the least as Rivers is very good, IMO, and productive. He just doesn't get as many opportunities as the upper-tier QBs, and I think Ryan will also fall into this category, especially with Turner around.

But I respect the opinion though, and in "sticking to your guns" on this one.

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Interesting that you would use this logic to say Rodgers is special and clearly imply Rivers isn't, when Rivers was better last year at every measure you cited. With arguably lesser targets than Rodgers had.Your comment on Rivers' opportunities implies that you are assuming they won't change in the future. IMO the Chargers' passing game was so dominant last year, it is a nobrainer for the Chargers to gradually switch more to a passing oriented offense as LT declines, particularly since it does not appear they have an heir apparent as a feature back replacement. I would be extremely surprised if Rivers doesn't have more attempts this year than last, more next year than this year, etc.

Rivers has a higher career QB rating than Rodgers, and that is despite playing one of his three seasons in Marty's conservative offense and a second year in transition due to a new coaching staff and significant turnover in his receiving corps. IMO there is absolutely no reason to expect Rodgers to be better going forward.

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Rivers is very good, I believe, and had a phenomenal season. But no, I do not place him at the same level as Manning or Brady or Brees or Rodgers. First off, last year was Rodgers' 1st year starting, not 3rd or 4th like Rivers. Rodgers instantly jumped into the elite, meaning the guy was ready to go and should only improve as he gets more comfortable in and masters the system. Second, Rivers isn't anywhere close to having the physical abilities of Rodgers, as he is much closer to Ryan in arm strength, mobility, quickness, etc. Third, the passing game in S.D. is not the same as the passing game in G.B., the Packers are much more dynamic in structure of their passing game as Turner and McCarthy have much different philosophies. And Green Bay has shown that they will continue down a path with similar offensive philosophy through their most recent HC eras: Holmgren, Sherman, and McCarthy all promoted W.C. offensive tendencies, and McCarthy's is as sophisticated and dynamic as there is. And when you have the proper trigger man like Rodgers, they almost assuredly will not deviate from this proven structure. Turner's offense is essentially a run-based offense that looks to make big plays in the passing game but doesn't offer the consistent opportunities in the passing game as a QB-friendly WCO will. And last year, sure Rivers executed brilliantly in Turner's system. But feel free to expect that same type of ypa from Rivers and ypr from V-Jax this year. I am not. Can things change over time with Rivers to get more passing opportunities, sure. But that is simply a guess, not a certain projection.

Rivers' '08 was slightly reminiscient of Big Ben's '07, IMO. Not saying that he will fall back to Big Ben's next season ('07 to '08), but I do expect a fall back. Rodgers =

In a playoff game you have to ignore your injuries and play no matter what or you will never be anything in this league.

Signed,

Ladainian Tomlinson

Nice work on the blog.

benm3218 said:

Look genius. Running around on a basketball court with a sprain just might be different from getting brutalized by 300lb men and being tackled and having 3 huge guys piled on top of that sprain. Running around on a court is controlled by you. You mediate your pain and control what you do. On a football field you get tackled and crushed by 3 guys who fall on your bad ankle.

I am done with this. It should be clear to anyone with a brain that football is a bit rougher than basketball and hence would be harder on an ankle.

Why don't you call up some of your famous basketball player friends and have a nice game of 36 this afternoon. See ya.

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Yes, the biggest pain any pro athlete with a severe ankle sprain has is when someone lands on it.

kremenull said:

Rivers is very good, I believe, and had a phenomenal season. But no, I do not place him at the same level as Manning or Brady or Brees or Rodgers. First off, last year was Rodgers' 1st year starting, not 3rd or 4th like Rivers. Rodgers instantly jumped into the elite, meaning the guy was ready to go and should only improve as he gets more comfortable in and masters the system.

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Last year was Rodger's 4th season and was his first as a starter. 2006 was Rivers' 4th season and first as a starter. Compare:Rodgers 2008:341/536 (63.6%)4038 passing yards (7.5 ypa)28 TDs (5.2%)13 interceptions (2.4%)34 sacks (6.0%)7.5 AY/A6.7 NY/A6.6 ANY/A93.8 QB rating56/207/4 rushing10 fumbles15 Approximate Value6-10 recordRivers 2006:284/460 (61.7%)3388 passing yards (7.4 ypa)22 TDs (4.8%)9 interceptions (2.0%)27 sacks (5.5%)7.4 AY/A6.7 NY/A6.7 ANY/A92.0 QB rating48/49/0 rushing8 fumbles17 Approximate Value14-2 recordPro BowlRodgers was better at producing TDs and Rivers was better at avoiding turnovers. Rivers' role was quite a bit different... he played that season in Marty's conservative offense for a much better team, with below average WRs and Tomlinson at his peak. Rivers did a great job of guiding that team to an excellent record, avoiding mistakes. Rodgers, on a worse team, albeit with better WRs, was asked to do more, hence his greater number of passing attempts, with the expected larger number of both TDs and mistakes. I don't see where Rodgers completely outshined Rivers in a reasonably similar situation. Sure, Rodgers will likely get better with more experience. But Rivers just had one of the best QB seasons in recent history. Sure, he might not duplicate that again... but we don't know if Rodgers will ever have a performance even close to that good (e.g., close to 8.4 ypa, 7.1% TD percentage, 105.5 QB rating). In fact, I'd say it is very likely he will not.

kremenull said:

Second, Rivers isn't anywhere close to having the physical abilities of Rodgers, as he is much closer to Ryan in arm strength, mobility, quickness, etc.

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This is true, but so what? I'd venture to say that Rodgers has better physical abilities than Peyton Manning, Brady, and Brees as well, but that doesn't mean he is a better QB. There have been a lot of starting QBs in the NFL with better physical abilities than Rivers, but very few of them have played as well as Rivers did last year.

kremenull said:

Third, the passing game in S.D. is not the same as the passing game in G.B., the Packers are much more dynamic in structure of their passing game as Turner and McCarthy have much different philosophies. And Green Bay has shown that they will continue down a path with similar offensive philosophy through their most recent HC eras: Holmgren, Sherman, and McCarthy all promoted W.C. offensive tendencies, and McCarthy's is as sophisticated and dynamic as there is. And when you have the proper trigger man like Rodgers, they almost assuredly will not deviate from this proven structure. Turner's offense is essentially a run-based offense that looks to make big plays in the passing game but doesn't offer the consistent opportunities in the passing game as a QB-friendly WCO will.

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All this is true about the Packers offense, and it does put Rodgers in an excellent situation. However, Rivers now has arguably as good an overall set of targets when including TEs and RBs in addition to WRs. I am less concerned with the nature of the offense... It really comes down to how many opportunities these guys will get and how effective they can be with them. In the short term, it seems likely that Rodgers will get more opportunities, though I think Rivers' opportunities should rise over the next few seasons. Which of them will be more effective with their opportunities? I expect it will be Rivers.

kremenull said:

And last year, sure Rivers executed brilliantly in Turner's system. But feel free to expect that same type of ypa from Rivers and ypr from V-Jax this year. I am not. Can things change over time with Rivers to get more passing opportunities, sure. But that is simply a guess, not a certain projection.Rivers' '08 was slightly reminiscient of Big Ben's '07, IMO. Not saying that he will fall back to Big Ben's next season ('07 to '08), but I do expect a fall back.

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Sure, I expect Rivers to regress somewhat from last season. That doesn't mean he cannot still be better than Rodgers. And any similarity to Roethlisberger is irrelevant. One guy does not make a trend.And it is just as likely that Rodgers will regress. To suggest he will not is simply a guess, not a certain projection.

Sure, I expect Rivers to regress somewhat from last season. That doesn't mean he cannot still be better than Rodgers. And any similarity to Roethlisberger is irrelevant. One guy does not make a trend. And it is just as likely that Rodgers will regress. To suggest he will not is simply a guess, not a certain projection.

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Actually Just Win, I don't have Rivers much behind the top QBs, as he's right there amongst them in my most recent rankings, just at the bottom of the 2nd tiered group (see below). Really, I do like the guy a lot.....just not quite as much as Rodgers.Updated Posting in SP on June 21, 2009***************************************************************************************SS…SIMPLY SUPERB aka SUPER STUDS2. Aaron Rodgers QB 6’4” 225 PackersI’m proud to say that I was absolutely on the early bandwagon of this guy heading into ’08 shortly after Brett Favre announced his “retirement”, and actually, even well before (years). And yes, he has exceeded (only slightly) my expectations to-date. The real excitement comes in seeing how bright the immediate (and long-term) future looks in G.B. for “A-Rodge”. With a plethora of young, talented weapons at his disposal, the very athletic Rodgers is headed for superstardom. Following right on the heels of a living legend QB in a town that still reveres him (Favre), I give Rodgers a ton of credit in having stepped up and delivered the goods so far.3. Tom Brady QB 6’5” 225 PatriotsYes, you are not misreading things, Brady’s not in my top tier. Coming off a very serious knee injury (multiple torn ligaments), I still have some reservations as to whether Brady will be in top form for the entire ’09 season, if for even half of it. In dynasty leagues, that is not a big problem. The other not so small concern that I have is with regards to the circumstances around Brady moving forward: 1) Will Moss be interested in playing beyond ’09?, 2) Will other receiving option(s) emerge aside from Welker and Moss?, and 3) Will “The Hoodie” rely more on the running game to protect his franchise QB who’s coming off major knee reconstruction? All these factors are enough for me to drop Brady down just a notch, but in essence, it’s not much of a drop.4. Peyton Manning QB 6’5” 230 ColtsManning has been one of the most consistent fantasy options it seems like forever. Given his command of the offense and the continuity of his support cast, he has enjoyed one thing that can’t be overlooked……comfort……However, there are some concerns in that his supporting cast is in flux (Harrison is gone), his once ultra-stable coaching staff has been modified, and the o-line may need an overhaul as they seem to be getting manhandled of late. It must have been great to be Peyton Manning for the past decade……but let’s see how he handles just a little bit of change here. I have confidence that the Colts’ brass will figure it out and continue to put the right pieces in place for him to prosper going forward.5. Philip Rivers QB 6’4” 230 ChargersIt is evident that LT has lost some of his wonderful skill, something that inevitably will happen to all of us in a given situation or place in time, and the Chargers have quickly morphed into Rivers’ team. Rivers is a guy who makes all the throws and has a very good group of pass-catchers, sprinkled with veterans in their prime (Gates, Chambers, V-Jax) as well as young, talented, homegrown prospects (Davis, Naanee, Sproles).******************************************************************************************But here's another question for F&L,What are your thoughts on Felix Jones? Curious to see how you view him, especially based on your position regarding Chris Johnson. Care to elaborate?Much Peace!

bit of a trade question. We have a 3 man keeper. My best keepers happen to be 3 RBs in a start 2 league. QBs are huge in the league, and I'm looking at not picking until the 4th round (as I'm going to keep 3 keepers - one round for each one). My keepers are ADP, MJD, and Chris Johnson. Aaron Rogers is on the block. Would you unload either MJD or CJ for Rogers or keep 3 RBs. I would imagine in the 4th, 2nd tier QBs would be available. Is everyone that sold on Rogers being an elite QB for years to come?

Horses Mouth said:

bit of a trade question. We have a 3 man keeper. My best keepers happen to be 3 RBs in a start 2 league. QBs are huge in the league, and I'm looking at not picking until the 4th round (as I'm going to keep 3 keepers - one round for each one). My keepers are ADP, MJD, and Chris Johnson. Aaron Rogers is on the block. Would you unload either MJD or CJ for Rogers or keep 3 RBs. I would imagine in the 4th, 2nd tier QBs would be available. Is everyone that sold on Rogers being an elite QB for years to come?

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why don't you keep the 3 RBs and then trade one after the draft starts? i don't know about your scroring system, but it seems like any one of those guys should fetch more than rodgers -- i'm thinking rodgers plus a pick, or rodgers plus another one of that guy's keepers (again, after the draft starts).

Horses Mouth said:

bit of a trade question. We have a 3 man keeper. My best keepers happen to be 3 RBs in a start 2 league. QBs are huge in the league, and I'm looking at not picking until the 4th round (as I'm going to keep 3 keepers - one round for each one). My keepers are ADP, MJD, and Chris Johnson. Aaron Rogers is on the block. Would you unload either MJD or CJ for Rogers or keep 3 RBs. I would imagine in the 4th, 2nd tier QBs would be available. Is everyone that sold on Rogers being an elite QB for years to come?

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Keep them all if you can't trade before the draft. You may be able to get Rodgers and upgrade another position if you keep all 3 and trade one after the draft. You may want to elaborate on how 'huge' QB's are in your league.

interesting delima...well sorta.

In a dynasty ppr where we can play 1rb 1wr and 3 flex players.

My team current starters are: A.Rodgers/LT/Slaton/Fitz/Calvin/Bowe/Clark/Folk/NE Pats

This team won it all last year, i dont have hardly any depth.

My next in line flex guys are A.Gonzo, Hester, Hixon...thats not too good. jesh....

Anyway, i was offered a deal where i get TO and Harvin for A.Gonzo and Hester.

Kinda sounds decent.... TO scares the beegebish out of me though, not to mention Buffalo isnt a passing team and maybe even AG outscores him this year as a starter on the Colts. But if all things fell into place im looking at atleast 8td's from TO right, and the upside of Harvin is nice. I know you a BIG harvin fan but really....this offer as a whole in a dynasty league....whats your take?

Best thread in the SP by far...and SotT efforts long appreciated!

Question for ya - dynasty obviously.

In a start 2 RB/2WR/2FLEX (RB or WR/TE) - 1 PPR for WR, 1.5 for TE, No PPR for RB -----

Who is the more valuable addition to this fine club going forward - Moreno or Crabtree?

I've seen much discussion on both players...various strengths and weaknesses...PPR format for both RB's and WR's...non-PPR for both, etc - but never PPR for WR's only!

Standard scoring, 20-man rosters, 14 teams.

Top 3 or 4 WR/RB's on my roster are:

Bush, Reggie

Jones, Felix

Mendenhall, Rashard

Rice, Ray

~~~~~~~~~~

Bowe, Dwayne

Johnson, Andre

Johnson, Calvin

Miller, Zach

I tend to take the long view runnin' my dynasty club, with the goal being to compete well each and every year. With the relative shelf lives of WR and RB in mind for dynasty...yet with my relative weakness at RB, well - I'm completely shuked here and I admit it!

Any thoughts'd be much appreciated!

THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA said:

interesting delima...well sorta.

In a dynasty ppr where we can play 1rb 1wr and 3 flex players.

My team current starters are: A.Rodgers/LT/Slaton/Fitz/Calvin/Bowe/Clark/Folk/NE Pats

This team won it all last year, i dont have hardly any depth.

My next in line flex guys are A.Gonzo, Hester, Hixon...thats not too good. jesh....

Anyway, i was offered a deal where i get TO and Harvin for A.Gonzo and Hester.

Kinda sounds decent.... TO scares the beegebish out of me though, not to mention Buffalo isnt a passing team and maybe even AG outscores him this year as a starter on the Colts. But if all things fell into place im looking at atleast 8td's from TO right, and the upside of Harvin is nice. I know you a BIG harvin fan but really....this offer as a whole in a dynasty league....whats your take?

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I expect all of these guys to be more than decent in Dynasty leagues. I bet Gonzo & Hester are starters on many fantasy teams. Is this an 8-team league?

I'm kind of conflicted on this one for you. I could definitely see going after T.O. if you needed a rock-solid WR2 to contend, but your starting WRs are . But it's the Harvin throw-in that really has me waffling. Like you said, I Harvin something fierce. Gonzo has a major situation edge on Harvin for 2009, but Harvin has a major talent edge. And, really, getting T.O. in the deal would protect you from having to worry about Harvin being broken in slowly by the Vikes. With your young core you don't even have to worry about T.O.'s age anyway. If he falls off a cliff in the next two years, big deal. You'd still have Fitz/Calvin/Bowe as your starters. I say swing for the fences and go for T.O./Harvin.

Poppa said:

Best thread in the SP by far...and SotT efforts long appreciated!

Question for ya - dynasty obviously.

In a start 2 RB/2WR/2FLEX (RB or WR/TE) - 1 PPR for WR, 1.5 for TE, No PPR for RB -----

Who is the more valuable addition to this fine club going forward - Moreno or Crabtree?

I've seen much discussion on both players...various strengths and weaknesses...PPR format for both RB's and WR's...non-PPR for both, etc - but never PPR for WR's only!

Standard scoring, 20-man rosters, 14 teams.

Top 3 or 4 WR/RB's on my roster are:

Bush, Reggie

Jones, Felix

Mendenhall, Rashard

Rice, Ray

~~~~~~~~~~

Bowe, Dwayne

Johnson, Andre

Johnson, Calvin

Miller, Zach

I tend to take the long view runnin' my dynasty club, with the goal being to compete well each and every year. With the relative shelf lives of WR and RB in mind for dynasty...yet with my relative weakness at RB, well - I'm completely shuked here and I admit it!

Any thoughts'd be much appreciated!

Click to expand...

I'm shuked here too. This is another one of those situation where the league rules are so unique that you kind of have to go with your own experience and not put too much stock in outside advice. I've never played in a league where WRs get PPR but RBs don't, so that skews values pretty significantly. Considering your roster, however, I'd be grabbing Moreno. Your WRs are already fantastic.

gorf said:

Horses Mouth said:

bit of a trade question. We have a 3 man keeper. My best keepers happen to be 3 RBs in a start 2 league. QBs are huge in the league, and I'm looking at not picking until the 4th round (as I'm going to keep 3 keepers - one round for each one). My keepers are ADP, MJD, and Chris Johnson. Aaron Rogers is on the block. Would you unload either MJD or CJ for Rogers or keep 3 RBs. I would imagine in the 4th, 2nd tier QBs would be available. Is everyone that sold on Rogers being an elite QB for years to come?

Click to expand...

why don't you keep the 3 RBs and then trade one after the draft starts? i don't know about your scroring system, but it seems like any one of those guys should fetch more than rodgers -- i'm thinking rodgers plus a pick, or rodgers plus another one of that guy's keepers (again, after the draft starts).

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This is another case where you know your league better than us. I wouldn't feel comfortable telling you to keep 3 RBs unless I knew the trading tendencies of your league. My leagues usually spin the wheel pretty often, but I know other leagues where trading almost never occurs. If you're pretty sure can deal CJ for a better QB than Rodgers, then it's worth keeping the RBs. If you're not sure whether you could do better than Rodgers, then go ahead and keep the top tier QB. At some point, you can get a little too greedy asking for draft picks and throw-ins ... and then get left holding the bag with no QB.

I was hoping you could touch on this quote from your latest blog for me...

4. Ted Ginn – Three months ago I argued that Ginn was entering a make-or-break season; his offseason progress bodes well for the "make" side. He was dominant at times in OTAs, and Football Outsiders as well as the local beats believe he's ready to take the next step.

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In you opinion, is this next step going to make Ginn a weekly starter in say a 12 team 3wr format or will he just be a better plug and play option this season?

Max Power said:

I was hoping you could touch on this quote from your latest blog for me...

4. Ted Ginn – Three months ago I argued that Ginn was entering a make-or-break season; his offseason progress bodes well for the "make" side. He was dominant at times in OTAs, and Football Outsiders as well as the local beats believe he's ready to take the next step.

Click to expand...

In you opinion, is this next step going to make Ginn a weekly starter in say a 12 team 3wr format or will he just be a better plug and play option this season?

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If he is going to "take the next step" as Football Outsiders (and local media) predict, that would make him a WR3 in 12-team formats. I would think that if he doesn't make it that far, then he's not really progressing as hoped. FWIW, Football Outsiders predict 10 more receptions, 140 more yards and six more TDs this season at 66/930/8.

Fear & Loathing said:

THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA said:

interesting delima...well sorta.

In a dynasty ppr where we can play 1rb 1wr and 3 flex players.

My team current starters are: A.Rodgers/LT/Slaton/Fitz/Calvin/Bowe/Clark/Folk/NE Pats

This team won it all last year, i dont have hardly any depth.

My next in line flex guys are A.Gonzo, Hester, Hixon...thats not too good. jesh....

Anyway, i was offered a deal where i get TO and Harvin for A.Gonzo and Hester.

Kinda sounds decent.... TO scares the beegebish out of me though, not to mention Buffalo isnt a passing team and maybe even AG outscores him this year as a starter on the Colts. But if all things fell into place im looking at atleast 8td's from TO right, and the upside of Harvin is nice. I know you a BIG harvin fan but really....this offer as a whole in a dynasty league....whats your take?

Click to expand...

I expect all of these guys to be more than decent in Dynasty leagues. I bet Gonzo & Hester are starters on many fantasy teams. Is this an 8-team league?

I'm kind of conflicted on this one for you. I could definitely see going after T.O. if you needed a rock-solid WR2 to contend, but your starting WRs are . But it's the Harvin throw-in that really has me waffling. Like you said, I Harvin something fierce. Gonzo has a major situation edge on Harvin for 2009, but Harvin has a major talent edge. And, really, getting T.O. in the deal would protect you from having to worry about Harvin being broken in slowly by the Vikes. With your young core you don't even have to worry about T.O.'s age anyway. If he falls off a cliff in the next two years, big deal. You'd still have Fitz/Calvin/Bowe as your starters. I say swing for the fences and go for T.O./Harvin.

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LOL, no its really a 24 team (2 12 team conference) dynasty league with ALOT of FBG staff in it and other TOP well known FBG members. The parity is seperating in there, and while i won the whole thing last year im not even the best team in my conference. Im like maybe 3 or 4.

Some of the sharks been working overtime in here.

thx for the help bro!!!

Im still on the fench about that move though.

THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA said:

LOL, no its really a 24 team (2 12 team conference) dynasty league with ALOT of FBG staff in it and other TOP well known FBG members. The parity is seperating in there, and while i won the whole thing last year im not even the best team in my conference. Im like maybe 3 or 4. Some of the sharks been working overtime in here. thx for the help bro!!!Im still on the fench about that move though.

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Well, then, kudos on building the fine roster. I'd say swing for the fences instead of sitting on them.

Fear & Loathing said:

Poppa said:

Best thread in the SP by far...and SotT efforts long appreciated!

Question for ya - dynasty obviously.

In a start 2 RB/2WR/2FLEX (RB or WR/TE) - 1 PPR for WR, 1.5 for TE, No PPR for RB -----

Who is the more valuable addition to this fine club going forward - Moreno or Crabtree?

I've seen much discussion on both players...various strengths and weaknesses...PPR format for both RB's and WR's...non-PPR for both, etc - but never PPR for WR's only!

Standard scoring, 20-man rosters, 14 teams.

Top 3 or 4 WR/RB's on my roster are:

Bush, Reggie

Jones, Felix

Mendenhall, Rashard

Rice, Ray

~~~~~~~~~~

Bowe, Dwayne

Johnson, Andre

Johnson, Calvin

Miller, Zach

I tend to take the long view runnin' my dynasty club, with the goal being to compete well each and every year. With the relative shelf lives of WR and RB in mind for dynasty...yet with my relative weakness at RB, well - I'm completely shuked here and I admit it!

Any thoughts'd be much appreciated!

Click to expand...

I'm shuked here too. This is another one of those situation where the league rules are so unique that you kind of have to go with your own experience and not put too much stock in outside advice. I've never played in a league where WRs get PPR but RBs don't, so that skews values pretty significantly. Considering your roster, however, I'd be grabbing Moreno. Your WRs are already fantastic.

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I can help. Poppa is an ifriend of mine, we've talked on the phone, and we're in a few leagues together including the one he's asking about (BTW, PPR for TE is actually 2, not 1.5). So Poppa, I wouldn't try to steer you wrong. Go with Moreno, and here's why. First, your RB group has a lot of upside but is short on guaranteed starter-level production while your top WRs are certain studs. VBD would say you have a greater need at RB since the league requires starting at least 2. Moreno would most likely become your RB1.

Second, the career success rate of 1st round rookie WRs is lower than that of RBs. Even though you'd think there's no way either of these two could fail, that's been said about a lot of top-15 draftees who have failed. Statistically Moreno has better odds of being elite than Crabtree. Their situations tend to support that too. Moreno is entering RB paradise behind that Denver line, and he's in an offense where he'll also catch a lot of passes, so even though there's no PPR for RBs, he's set up pretty well to succeed unless injured. Crabtree's QB (whichever it will be) will not be leading an explosive passing offense and as a SF homer I can tell you the organization still doesn't seem to know which end is up most of the time. Crabs could wind up lost in a sea of mediocrity on that team and never be special because of it.

Third, after their rookie years, when Moreno has likely produced good numbers and Crabtree has likely produced average-to-disappointing numbers (FF owners usually expect more from top rated rookie WRs than they produce), their respective trade values will diverge and I can almost guarantee you could deal Moreno next year for Crabtree and then some. In our league, despite no PPR for RBs, guys are still RB-hungry because it's a 14-teamer and you can start up to 4 RBs.

I traded away my 1st rounder so I can be impartial. If I were you, no question I'd take Moreno (or deal the pick to Couch Potato for Bironas ).

Couch Potato said:

Fear & Loathing said:

Poppa said:

Best thread in the SP by far...and SotT efforts long appreciated!

Question for ya - dynasty obviously.

In a start 2 RB/2WR/2FLEX (RB or WR/TE) - 1 PPR for WR, 1.5 for TE, No PPR for RB -----

Who is the more valuable addition to this fine club going forward - Moreno or Crabtree?

I've seen much discussion on both players...various strengths and weaknesses...PPR format for both RB's and WR's...non-PPR for both, etc - but never PPR for WR's only!

Standard scoring, 20-man rosters, 14 teams.

Top 3 or 4 WR/RB's on my roster are:

Bush, Reggie

Jones, Felix

Mendenhall, Rashard

Rice, Ray

~~~~~~~~~~

Bowe, Dwayne

Johnson, Andre

Johnson, Calvin

Miller, Zach

I tend to take the long view runnin' my dynasty club, with the goal being to compete well each and every year. With the relative shelf lives of WR and RB in mind for dynasty...yet with my relative weakness at RB, well - I'm completely shuked here and I admit it!

Any thoughts'd be much appreciated!

Click to expand...

I'm shuked here too. This is another one of those situation where the league rules are so unique that you kind of have to go with your own experience and not put too much stock in outside advice. I've never played in a league where WRs get PPR but RBs don't, so that skews values pretty significantly. Considering your roster, however, I'd be grabbing Moreno. Your WRs are already fantastic.

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I can help. Poppa is an ifriend of mine, we've talked on the phone, and we're in a few leagues together including the one he's asking about (BTW, PPR for TE is actually 2, not 1.5). So Poppa, I wouldn't try to steer you wrong. Go with Moreno, and here's why. First, your RB group has a lot of upside but is short on guaranteed starter-level production while your top WRs are certain studs. VBD would say you have a greater need at RB since the league requires starting at least 2. Moreno would most likely become your RB1.

Second, the career success rate of 1st round rookie WRs is lower than that of RBs. Even though you'd think there's no way either of these two could fail, that's been said about a lot of top-15 draftees who have failed. Statistically Moreno has better odds of being elite than Crabtree. Their situations tend to support that too. Moreno is entering RB paradise behind that Denver line, and he's in an offense where he'll also catch a lot of passes, so even though there's no PPR for RBs, he's set up pretty well to succeed unless injured. Crabtree's QB (whichever it will be) will not be leading an explosive passing offense and as a SF homer I can tell you the organization still doesn't seem to know which end is up most of the time. Crabs could wind up lost in a sea of mediocrity on that team and never be special because of it.

Third, after their rookie years, when Moreno has likely produced good numbers and Crabtree has likely produced average-to-disappointing numbers (FF owners usually expect more from top rated rookie WRs than they produce), their respective trade values will diverge and I can almost guarantee you could deal Moreno next year for Crabtree and then some. In our league, despite no PPR for RBs, guys are still RB-hungry because it's a 14-teamer and you can start up to 4 RBs.

I traded away my 1st rounder so I can be impartial. If I were you, no question I'd take Moreno (or deal the pick to Couch Potato for Bironas ).

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Many thanks CP...and to F&L too for input!My gut has said Moreno since I traded for the pick. Can't quite shut down the gnawing feeling that I might leave value on the table by letting Crabs slide, though.

In successive years I've traded away Barber and MJD - making the Championship games - perhaps in spite of myself!



Best I'd better replace 'em with another RB.

Plan your 2.08 accordingly, CP!

Poppa said:

Many thanks CP...and to F&L too for input!

My gut has said Moreno since I traded for the pick. Can't quite shut down the gnawing feeling that I might leave value on the table by letting Crabs slide, though.

In successive years I've traded away Barber and MJD - making the Championship games - perhaps in spite of myself!



Best I'd better replace 'em with another RB.

Plan your 2.08 accordingly, CP!

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Hey wait a minute. I thought I was helping because you "earned" that pick with a sucky team. I'd forgotten IT WAS YOU WHO KNOCKED ME (DIVISION WINNER) OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS with that wildcard team of yours. Screw you. Draft Hey-Bey!

Hey F&L (and others) what kind of gap do you see between MJD and CJ3? I own CJ3 and I'm considering trying to move him and Carolina Steve Smith for MJD... (keep 3 league and my other 2 keepers are ADP and Cal Johnson) The owner with MJD also has Forte, but but nothing else so another consideration is do I want to make her team better by giving her a solid 3rd keeper.

Is there much value for me trading one enigma for another? I mean neither of these guys are LT2 or Emmit Smith in their prime locks for production. There are (small) questions about each of them...

coyote5 said:

Hey F&L (and others) what kind of gap do you see between MJD and CJ3? I own CJ3 and I'm considering trying to move him and Carolina Steve Smith for MJD... (keep 3 league and my other 2 keepers are ADP and Cal Johnson) The owner with MJD also has Forte, but but nothing else so another consideration is do I want to make her team better by giving her a solid 3rd keeper.Is there much value for me trading one enigma for another? I mean neither of these guys are LT2 or Emmit Smith in their prime locks for production. There are (small) questions about each of them...

Click to expand...

Interestingly, I've heard this same scenario in keeper leagues at least a handful of times this offseason -- where the owner has to decide between MJD and Chris Johnson for one spot. Anyway, I don't really have any questions about either backs. I think Johnson's ceiling could be slightly higher, but MJD's touchdown edge will likely more than make up for the difference in the next couple of years.

Anyone care to share their thoughts on Martellus Bennett? Seems like this guy has an extremely high ceiling...the big downside obviously being that he's stuck behind the best TE in the game. Our rosters are expanded in the off season but with only 20 man rosters for regular season I don't know if I can keep him them.

Anyone else holding as a stud TE in waiting? Although Witten is an iron man he does take a beating sometimes, and all it'll take is 1 or 2 games missed and someone else might pick up this guy never to be dropped again if he flashes the potential he has.

dotman said:

Anyone care to share their thoughts on Martellus Bennett? Seems like this guy has an extremely high ceiling...the big downside obviously being that he's stuck behind the best TE in the game. Our rosters are expanded in the off season but with only 20 man rosters for regular season I don't know if I can keep him them. Anyone else holding as a stud TE in waiting? Although Witten is an iron man he does take a beating sometimes, and all it'll take is 1 or 2 games missed and someone else might pick up this guy never to be dropped again if he flashes the potential he has.

Click to expand...

I love Martellus Bennett. I think he's a cool cat, much more intelligent than commonly believed, and truly funny. He's just misunderstood. Talent-wise, I'm in complete agreement with you. His ceiling is through the roof, and the coaches have talked all offseason about him being one of the big recipients of T.O.'s exit. Still, I think you're right: as long as Witten is around, Bennett is the kind of stash who is going to be tough to keep on your roster throughout a full season. In expanded roster leagues he has much more value than he does in a standard-size league.

Well, I've waited a bit before dropping this at the feet of ol' Granddaddy Dynasty, but here goes: I've been playing in the same league (12 team dynasty, IDP, non-PPR) for nearly a decade, and an opportunity arose which I'm considering, that is, to dissolve my team and add my players to a pool comprised of another team, and then just the two of us draft new rosters from that pool (with the rookie draft picks thrown in as well). I went 2-11 last year, and have the 4th overall pick in the rookie draft. I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or insight regarding either dissolving or maintaining. Thanks for the assist!

My team:

QB - Big Ben; Jason Campbell

RB - Pierre Thomas; Willis McGahee; Ray Rice; Darren Sproles; Leon Washington; Jerome Harrison

WR - Randy Moss; TJ; Lance Moore; Domenik Hixon; Mark Bradley; Josh Morgan; Sidney Rice

TE - Marcedes Lewis

IDP - D'Qwell Jackson; Stephen Cooper; Rocky McIntosh; Justin Durant; Akeem Jordan

Other team:

QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;

RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;

WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin Gage

TE - Owen Daniels; Jason Witten

IDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

KSU_Shrink said:

Well, I've waited a bit before dropping this at the feet of ol' Granddaddy Dynasty, but here goes: I've been playing in the same league (12 team dynasty, IDP, non-PPR) for nearly a decade, and an opportunity arose which I'm considering, that is, to dissolve my team and add my players to a pool comprised of another team, and then just the two of us draft new rosters from that pool (with the rookie draft picks thrown in as well). I went 2-11 last year, and have the 4th overall pick in the rookie draft. I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or insight regarding either dissolving or maintaining. Thanks for the assist!

My team:

QB - Big Ben; Jason Campbell

RB - Pierre Thomas; Willis McGahee; Ray Rice; Darren Sproles; Leon Washington; Jerome Harrison

WR - Randy Moss; TJ; Lance Moore; Domenik Hixon; Mark Bradley; Josh Morgan; Sidney Rice

TE - Marcedes Lewis

IDP - D'Qwell Jackson; Stephen Cooper; Rocky McIntosh; Justin Durant; Akeem Jordan

Other team:

QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;

RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;

WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin Gage

TE - Owen Daniels; Jason Witten

IDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

Click to expand...

Why would the other team want to do that? They are clearly the better of the two teams? Just curious.

King of the Jungle said:

KSU_Shrink said:

Well, I've waited a bit before dropping this at the feet of ol' Granddaddy Dynasty, but here goes: I've been playing in the same league (12 team dynasty, IDP, non-PPR) for nearly a decade, and an opportunity arose which I'm considering, that is, to dissolve my team and add my players to a pool comprised of another team, and then just the two of us draft new rosters from that pool (with the rookie draft picks thrown in as well). I went 2-11 last year, and have the 4th overall pick in the rookie draft. I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or insight regarding either dissolving or maintaining. Thanks for the assist!

My team:

QB - Big Ben; Jason Campbell

RB - Pierre Thomas; Willis McGahee; Ray Rice; Darren Sproles; Leon Washington; Jerome Harrison

WR - Randy Moss; TJ; Lance Moore; Domenik Hixon; Mark Bradley; Josh Morgan; Sidney Rice

TE - Marcedes Lewis

IDP - D'Qwell Jackson; Stephen Cooper; Rocky McIntosh; Justin Durant; Akeem Jordan

Other team:

QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;

RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;

WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin Gage

TE - Owen Daniels; Jason Witten

IDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

Click to expand...

Why would the other team want to do that? They are clearly the better of the two teams? Just curious.

Click to expand...

One of our other founding members has left the league, and somebody else is coming in to take her place. Our Commish threw the option out to the league to do what I'm considering. So far as I know, nobody else is taking part.

Didn't you create a thread on this exact topic over in the assistant coach forum? If I remember correctly you got quite a few responses and the opinion was pretty uniform....

KSU_Shrink said:

King of the Jungle said:

KSU_Shrink said:

Well, I've waited a bit before dropping this at the feet of ol' Granddaddy Dynasty, but here goes: I've been playing in the same league (12 team dynasty, IDP, non-PPR) for nearly a decade, and an opportunity arose which I'm considering, that is, to dissolve my team and add my players to a pool comprised of another team, and then just the two of us draft new rosters from that pool (with the rookie draft picks thrown in as well). I went 2-11 last year, and have the 4th overall pick in the rookie draft. I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or insight regarding either dissolving or maintaining. Thanks for the assist!

My team:

QB - Big Ben; Jason Campbell

RB - Pierre Thomas; Willis McGahee; Ray Rice; Darren Sproles; Leon Washington; Jerome Harrison

WR - Randy Moss; TJ; Lance Moore; Domenik Hixon; Mark Bradley; Josh Morgan; Sidney Rice

TE - Marcedes Lewis

IDP - D'Qwell Jackson; Stephen Cooper; Rocky McIntosh; Justin Durant; Akeem Jordan

Other team:

QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;

RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;

WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin Gage

TE - Owen Daniels; Jason Witten

IDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

Click to expand...

Why would the other team want to do that? They are clearly the better of the two teams? Just curious.

Click to expand...

One of our other founding members has left the league, and somebody else is coming in to take her place. Our Commish threw the option out to the league to do what I'm considering. So far as I know, nobody else is taking part.

Click to expand...

I know your are really asking F&L but I don't see how anyone could advise you to do anything but take part in that draft. The other team is better in all aspects.Personally I don't agree with your commisioner that it should be handled that way as the new owner should just get the team, but if offered the only way I don't see how you don't do it is if you stand on the principal of building up your team.

KSU_Shrink said:

Well, I've waited a bit before dropping this at the feet of ol' Granddaddy Dynasty, but here goes: I've been playing in the same league (12 team dynasty, IDP, non-PPR) for nearly a decade, and an opportunity arose which I'm considering, that is, to dissolve my team and add my players to a pool comprised of another team, and then just the two of us draft new rosters from that pool (with the rookie draft picks thrown in as well). I went 2-11 last year, and have the 4th overall pick in the rookie draft. I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or insight regarding either dissolving or maintaining. Thanks for the assist!My team:QB - Big Ben; Jason CampbellRB - Pierre Thomas; Willis McGahee; Ray Rice; Darren Sproles; Leon Washington; Jerome HarrisonWR - Randy Moss; TJ; Lance Moore; Domenik Hixon; Mark Bradley; Josh Morgan; Sidney RiceTE - Marcedes LewisIDP - D'Qwell Jackson; Stephen Cooper; Rocky McIntosh; Justin Durant; Akeem JordanOther team:QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin GageTE - Owen Daniels; Jason WittenIDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

Click to expand...

If your first priority is to improve your team most expeditiously, then it's pretty obvious that you have to dissolve and re-draft.If your first priority is to keep your decade-long franchise identity intact, then stay with what you have and rebuild through the normal channels.

kremenull said:

But here's another question for F&L,What are your thoughts on Felix Jones? Curious to see how you view him, especially based on your position regarding Chris Johnson. Care to elaborate?Much Peace!

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I don't think there's any denying Felix's playmaking ability. It's true that it's a "wait and see" ranking b/c we just have no idea what his long-term role is going to be. He's one of those guys who is worth more in leagues with flex players b/c owners can use him in the mean time while waiting to see what the Cowboys do with MBIII in the future.For as much press as he gets as a receiving threat and third-down option, it's worth noting that he's a poor blocker and has a lot of work to do as a receiver. I think he really needs to work on becoming a better all-around back as opposed to just a big-play threat.

As I sit here beating myself up for taking Kenny Britt over Jeremy Maclin and Hakeem Nicks, I'm starting to notice the Titans suck at picking offensive talent. Here are all skill picks in the top 4 rounds since 1998:

1998, R1 - WR Kevin Dyson

2000, R3 - TE Erron Kinney

2001, R3 - TE Shad Meier

2001, R4 - WR Justin McCareins

2003, R2 - WR Tyrone Calico

2003, R3 - RB Chris Brown

2004, R2 - TE Ben Troupe

2005, R3 - WR Courtney Roby

2005, R3 - WR Brandon Jones

2005, R4 - WR Roydell Williams

2006, R1 - QB Vince Young

2006, R2 - RB LenDale White

2007, R2 - RB Chris Henry

2007, R3 - WR Paul Williams

2007, R4 - WR Chris Davis

2008, R1 - RB Chris Johnson

2008, R3 - TE Craig Stevens

2008, R4 - WR Lavelle Hawkins

Talk about a list of underachievers. There seems to be a recurring theme of taking guys with great measurables and hype (Calico, Troupe, Jones, Young, Henry) who shockingly don't work out on the actual field.

Just thought I'd share.

can't argue that they have done poorly with WR, but their backfield is pretty damn good...

(edit: by backfield I mean the RBs)

Fear & Loathing said:

KSU_Shrink said:

Well, I've waited a bit before dropping this at the feet of ol' Granddaddy Dynasty, but here goes: I've been playing in the same league (12 team dynasty, IDP, non-PPR) for nearly a decade, and an opportunity arose which I'm considering, that is, to dissolve my team and add my players to a pool comprised of another team, and then just the two of us draft new rosters from that pool (with the rookie draft picks thrown in as well). I went 2-11 last year, and have the 4th overall pick in the rookie draft. I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or insight regarding either dissolving or maintaining. Thanks for the assist!My team:QB - Big Ben; Jason CampbellRB - Pierre Thomas; Willis McGahee; Ray Rice; Darren Sproles; Leon Washington; Jerome HarrisonWR - Randy Moss; TJ; Lance Moore; Domenik Hixon; Mark Bradley; Josh Morgan; Sidney RiceTE - Marcedes LewisIDP - D'Qwell Jackson; Stephen Cooper; Rocky McIntosh; Justin Durant; Akeem JordanOther team:QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin GageTE - Owen Daniels; Jason WittenIDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

Click to expand...

If your first priority is to improve your team most expeditiously, then it's pretty obvious that you have to dissolve and re-draft.If your first priority is to keep your decade-long franchise identity intact, then stay with what you have and rebuild through the normal channels.

Click to expand...

Gazing into your crystal ball, If I stick-and-stay, how do you think 2010 looks? Do I have some pieces in place? Thanks!

KSU_Shrink said:

Fear & Loathing said:

KSU_Shrink said:

Well, I've waited a bit before dropping this at the feet of ol' Granddaddy Dynasty, but here goes: I've been playing in the same league (12 team dynasty, IDP, non-PPR) for nearly a decade, and an opportunity arose which I'm considering, that is, to dissolve my team and add my players to a pool comprised of another team, and then just the two of us draft new rosters from that pool (with the rookie draft picks thrown in as well). I went 2-11 last year, and have the 4th overall pick in the rookie draft. I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or insight regarding either dissolving or maintaining. Thanks for the assist!My team:QB - Big Ben; Jason CampbellRB - Pierre Thomas; Willis McGahee; Ray Rice; Darren Sproles; Leon Washington; Jerome HarrisonWR - Randy Moss; TJ; Lance Moore; Domenik Hixon; Mark Bradley; Josh Morgan; Sidney RiceTE - Marcedes LewisIDP - D'Qwell Jackson; Stephen Cooper; Rocky McIntosh; Justin Durant; Akeem JordanOther team:QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin GageTE - Owen Daniels; Jason WittenIDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

Click to expand...

If your first priority is to improve your team most expeditiously, then it's pretty obvious that you have to dissolve and re-draft.If your first priority is to keep your decade-long franchise identity intact, then stay with what you have and rebuild through the normal channels.

Click to expand...

Gazing into your crystal ball, If I stick-and-stay, how do you think 2010 looks? Do I have some pieces in place? Thanks!

Click to expand...

Well, it's certainly not a playoff roster right now, but if Pierre Thomas, Ray Rice and Josh Morgan can vault into reliable every week fantasy starters, you could be competitive next season. IMO, it all hinges on those 3 players.

valhallan said:

As I sit here beating myself up for taking Kenny Britt over Jeremy Maclin and Hakeem Nicks, I'm starting to notice the Titans suck at picking offensive talent. Here are all skill picks in the top 4 rounds since 1998:

1998, R1 - WR Kevin Dyson

2000, R3 - TE Erron Kinney

2001, R3 - TE Shad Meier

2001, R4 - WR Justin McCareins

2003, R2 - WR Tyrone Calico

2003, R3 - RB Chris Brown

2004, R2 - TE Ben Troupe

2005, R3 - WR Courtney Roby

2005, R3 - WR Brandon Jones

2005, R4 - WR Roydell Williams

2006, R1 - QB Vince Young

2006, R2 - RB LenDale White

2007, R2 - RB Chris Henry

2007, R3 - WR Paul Williams

2007, R4 - WR Chris Davis

2008, R1 - RB Chris Johnson

2008, R3 - TE Craig Stevens

2008, R4 - WR Lavelle Hawkins

Talk about a list of underachievers. There seems to be a recurring theme of taking guys with great measurables and hype (Calico, Troupe, Jones, Young, Henry) who shockingly don't work out on the actual field.

Just thought I'd share.

Click to expand...

It's an ugly list at WR. The problem is lack of development as much as poor drafting. I just drafted Jared Cook a few minutes ago, so I hope the measurables and hype come through for once.

Hey F&L -- if you had to pick a Denver WR to start for your fantasy team, who would it be -- Marshall or Royal, and why? Thanks as always for your excellent insights.

Harjiran said:

Hey F&L -- if you had to pick a Denver WR to start for your fantasy team, who would it be -- Marshall or Royal, and why? Thanks as always for your excellent insights.

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We've addressed this issue in a round-about way before, and the upshot is this: I wouldn't want either as my WR1. Marshall because he has quite possibly the highest knucklehead factor in the league, and Royal because he falls just short of WR1 talent and upside. So, for me, the question becomes "who do I want as my WR2 behind one of Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Steve Smith, Greg Jennings, etc." The answer is Eddie Royal. If I already have that first spot nailed down with a reliable WR1, then I'm going after the guy I know I can count on as a rock-solid WR2 for the long-term ... and Royal still comes more cheaply than Marshall. In other words, Royal is a nucleus player as a WR2, but Marshall is not nucleus player as a WR1.

F&L this makes me giddy! I have Royal behind Fitz, Johnson and Jennings on my roster. my strength. I was shopping him but I'll keep.

Fear & Loathing said:

KSU_Shrink said:

Fear & Loathing said:

KSU_Shrink said:

Well, I've waited a bit before dropping this at the feet of ol' Granddaddy Dynasty, but here goes: I've been playing in the same league (12 team dynasty, IDP, non-PPR) for nearly a decade, and an opportunity arose which I'm considering, that is, to dissolve my team and add my players to a pool comprised of another team, and then just the two of us draft new rosters from that pool (with the rookie draft picks thrown in as well). I went 2-11 last year, and have the 4th overall pick in the rookie draft. I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or insight regarding either dissolving or maintaining. Thanks for the assist!My team:QB - Big Ben; Jason CampbellRB - Pierre Thomas; Willis McGahee; Ray Rice; Darren Sproles; Leon Washington; Jerome HarrisonWR - Randy Moss; TJ; Lance Moore; Domenik Hixon; Mark Bradley; Josh Morgan; Sidney RiceTE - Marcedes LewisIDP - D'Qwell Jackson; Stephen Cooper; Rocky McIntosh; Justin Durant; Akeem JordanOther team:QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin GageTE - Owen Daniels; Jason WittenIDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

Click to expand...

If your first priority is to improve your team most expeditiously, then it's pretty obvious that you have to dissolve and re-draft.If your first priority is to keep your decade-long franchise identity intact, then stay with what you have and rebuild through the normal channels.

Click to expand...

Gazing into your crystal ball, If I stick-and-stay, how do you think 2010 looks? Do I have some pieces in place? Thanks!

Click to expand...

Well, it's certainly not a playoff roster right now, but if Pierre Thomas, Ray Rice and Josh Morgan can vault into reliable every week fantasy starters, you could be competitive next season. IMO, it all hinges on those 3 players.

Click to expand...

Thanks. As I was perusing my roster, I noticed that I liked my guys more as up and comers, and they're my guys. I'm the guy in the league who takes the third string RB hoping he will pan out. Hasn't worked well so far, but I think I'm gonna stick with it, thanks! Apropos of that, should I try to jump to 1 overall for Moreno, or hold tight at 4?

KSU_Shrink said:

Thanks. As I was perusing my roster, I noticed that I liked my guys more as up and comers, and they're my guys. I'm the guy in the league who takes the third string RB hoping he will pan out. Hasn't worked well so far, but I think I'm gonna stick with it, thanks! Apropos of that, should I try to jump to 1 overall for Moreno, or hold tight at 4?

Click to expand...

I would definitely try to jump up to grab Moreno if you can swing it. Failing that, I'd grab Harvin at No. 4.

Fear & Loathing said:

KSU_Shrink said:

Fear & Loathing said:

KSU_Shrink said:

Well, I've waited a bit before dropping this at the feet of ol' Granddaddy Dynasty, but here goes: I've been playing in the same league (12 team dynasty, IDP, non-PPR) for nearly a decade, and an opportunity arose which I'm considering, that is, to dissolve my team and add my players to a pool comprised of another team, and then just the two of us draft new rosters from that pool (with the rookie draft picks thrown in as well). I went 2-11 last year, and have the 4th overall pick in the rookie draft. I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or insight regarding either dissolving or maintaining. Thanks for the assist!My team:QB - Big Ben; Jason CampbellRB - Pierre Thomas; Willis McGahee; Ray Rice; Darren Sproles; Leon Washington; Jerome HarrisonWR - Randy Moss; TJ; Lance Moore; Domenik Hixon; Mark Bradley; Josh Morgan; Sidney RiceTE - Marcedes LewisIDP - D'Qwell Jackson; Stephen Cooper; Rocky McIntosh; Justin Durant; Akeem JordanOther team:QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin GageTE - Owen Daniels; Jason WittenIDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

Click to expand...

If your first priority is to improve your team most expeditiously, then it's pretty obvious that you have to dissolve and re-draft.If your first priority is to keep your decade-long franchise identity intact, then stay with what you have and rebuild through the normal channels.

Click to expand...

Gazing into your crystal ball, If I stick-and-stay, how do you think 2010 looks? Do I have some pieces in place? Thanks!

Click to expand...

Well, it's certainly not a playoff roster right now, but if Pierre Thomas, Ray Rice and Josh Morgan can vault into reliable every week fantasy starters, you could be competitive next season. IMO, it all hinges on those 3 players.

Click to expand...

I'm going to disagree here with F&L a bit - I feel it doesn't hinge on just those 3 guys.1. Justin Durant has a good shot at being a stud IDP. I expect him to be a reliable every week starter this year, and contend for a LB1 ranking no later than next season. That said, I'm not in love with some of your other IDP. Improvement is necessary.2. He's got a relatively easy black hole to upgrade: TE. Marcedes Lewis is not even a low-end TE1.3. I like his WR's (Moss/Housh). They are older, but I see no reason he won't be playing them for a while.

KSU_Shrink said:

Other team:

QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;

RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;

WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin Gage

TE - Owen Daniels; Jason Witten

IDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

Click to expand...

Why would the other team want to do that? They are clearly the better of the two teams? Just curious.

Click to expand...

One of our other founding members has left the league, and somebody else is coming in to take her place. Our Commish threw the option out to the league to do what I'm considering. So far as I know, nobody else is taking part.

Click to expand...

Anybody else notice this was one gal who could kick some FF backside?I say take advantage of the rules (although I disagree with this rule), toss your team back and redraft. It'll be good for the league for your team to be more competitive anyway.

Just learn from your past, and don't turn the new team into a 2-11 team again.

Couch Potato said:

KSU_Shrink said:

Other team:

QB - Drew Brees; Carson Palmer; Kerry Collins;

RB - Steve Slaton; DeAngelo Williams; Derrick Ward; Fred Jackson; Ryan Moats;

WR - Calvin Johnson; Kevin Walter; Dwayne Bowe; Jordy Nelson; Davone Bess; Justin Gage

TE - Owen Daniels; Jason Witten

IDP - Barrett Rudd; Jerod Mayo; Jamie Winborn; Thomas Howard

Click to expand...

Why would the other team want to do that? They are clearly the better of the two teams? Just curious.

Click to expand...

One of our other founding members has left the league, and somebody else is coming in to take her place. Our Commish threw the option out to the league to do what I'm considering. So far as I know, nobody else is taking part.

Click to expand...

Anybody else notice this was one gal who could kick some FF backside?I say take advantage of the rules (although I disagree with this rule), toss your team back and redraft. It'll be good for the league for your team to be more competitive anyway.

Just learn from your past, and don't turn the new team into a 2-11 team again.

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Yeah, she more than held her own, that's for sure! She certainly had a better team than her husband (10th place, 4-9). Thanks all, for the input, it's been fun discussing this topic, but I'm definitely leaning toward keeping my team in place. The idea of team identity was what really won me over. I know that I could really improve my team really quickly, but I notice that I get a bit attached to 'my' guys. I've only really been using the Shark Pool for the last year or so, so there's some room to grow, and discussing it here has been fun. I know that I'll be bringing other situations to this thread for sure. Speaking of which, I was expecting to be torn between choosing Crabtree or D. Brown, did not see Harvin at #4 overall. Is Percy really the man to grab there? Willing to shed even more light on this F&L? Thanks!

I'm going to disagree here with F&L a bit - I feel it doesn't hinge on just those 3 guys.1. Justin Durant has a good shot at being a stud IDP. I expect him to be a reliable every week starter this year, and contend for a LB1 ranking no later than next season. That said, I'm not in love with some of your other IDP. Improvement is necessary.2. He's got a relatively easy black hole to upgrade: TE. Marcedes Lewis is not even a low-end TE1.3. I like his WR's (Moss/Housh). They are older, but I see no reason he won't be playing them for a while.

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Yeah, my IDP is certainly a work in progress, I've got my eye on Lawrence Timmons; hopefully he'll help. TE was a mainstay for years, had Tony G but traded him at the deadline last year for all I could get (Josh Morgan, 2.10 in rookie/FA draft-hoping to snag Zach Miller (OAK) with it). I'm really looking to upgrade at QB; I feel like I've got two good solid guys, but they're more backups than anything.

Fear & Loathing said:

I would definitely try to jump up to grab Moreno if you can swing it. Failing that, I'd grab Harvin at No. 4.

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You like Harvin more than Brown?

thriftyrocker said:

Fear & Loathing said:

I would definitely try to jump up to grab Moreno if you can swing it. Failing that, I'd grab Harvin at No. 4.

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You like Harvin more than Brown?

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damn i've been fighting this i have for harvin at the 4th pick i have coming up soon, you're not helping, are you really sold on him at 4 F&L?

2and2is5 said:

thriftyrocker said:

Fear & Loathing said:

I would definitely try to jump up to grab Moreno if you can swing it. Failing that, I'd grab Harvin at No. 4.

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You like Harvin more than Brown?

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damn i've been fighting this i have for harvin at the 4th pick i have coming up soon, you're not helping, are you really sold on him at 4 F&L?

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Personally, I would take him at No. 3 and would consider him at No. 2.