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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (4 Viewers)

Almost done with the first book with this reread.  So interesting how things stick out now.  One thing I keep coming back to is the discussion in one of these threads about what the worst decisions have been in this series as I am reading through.  Cat seems to be hovering around a lot of them.  One I forgot about was her suggesting to Robb to send Bolton leading the troops vs. Tywin instead of Umber - would the Red Wedding have happened if this didn't occur?.  It was interesting to think about that. 

I also forgot about how many time Ned was given an out in KLs between Varys and Renly.  Also I underestimate just how often R+L=J was hinted at in the first book.  It's damn near all Ned thinks about.

 
KarmaPolice said:
Almost done with the first book with this reread.  So interesting how things stick out now.  One thing I keep coming back to is the discussion in one of these threads about what the worst decisions have been in this series as I am reading through.  Cat seems to be hovering around a lot of them.  One I forgot about was her suggesting to Robb to send Bolton leading the troops vs. Tywin instead of Umber - would the Red Wedding have happened if this didn't occur?.  It was interesting to think about that. 

I also forgot about how many time Ned was given an out in KLs between Varys and Renly.  Also I underestimate just how often R+L=J was hinted at in the first book.  It's damn near all Ned thinks about.
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Bolton leading that attack wasn't the issue. The issue was Robb being an idiot and Edmure being an idiot. The Tully's, Cat, Lysa, and Edmure are huge factors in the fall of the Starks. Lysa kills Jon Arryn, incriminates the Lannisters, Cat takes it upon herself to capture Tyrion (huge mistake), loses Tyrion (huge mistake) and releases Jaime (huge mistake). Then Edmure lets the Freys off the hook by removing troops loyal to Robb out of the Twins.

 
sn0mm1s said:
Bolton leading that attack wasn't the issue. The issue was Robb being an idiot and Edmure being an idiot. The Tully's, Cat, Lysa, and Edmure are huge factors in the fall of the Starks. Lysa kills Jon Arryn, incriminates the Lannisters, Cat takes it upon herself to capture Tyrion (huge mistake), loses Tyrion (huge mistake) and releases Jaime (huge mistake). Then Edmure lets the Freys off the hook by removing troops loyal to Robb out of the Twins.
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Bob Sacamano said:
Seems like we're giving a bit of a pass on the whole banging Jeyne Westerling thing.
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For sure there were tons of mistakes and dumb decisions along the way. Just thought it was interesting the little things that built up and I am reading through.

 
Plenty of blame to go around other than just Edmure, Cat and Robb. Littlefinger orchestrates all of Lysa's actions and fools both Ned and Cat into believing the Lannisters and Tyrion in particular attempted to murder Bran in his sleep with the dagger. This is what motivates Cat to capture Tyrion when she happens upon him, starting the war. Bolton sabotages Robb's forces on numerous occasions, obviously the delay in the retreat where he evacuates his own men first across the river and intentionally takes too long trapping the other northern forces. But Bolton also was behind convincing Robert Glover to attack worthless Duskendale where Robb loses like a third of his army.

IIRC, Jeyne Westerling giving it up to Robb was all orchestrated by Tywin through Jeyne's parents, knowing that Robb would be too honorable like his father to not marry her afterwards and piss off the Frey's. I feel like that wasn't revealed until AFFC or ADWD though.

 
What Alejandro Villanueva said:

“People that are taking a knee are not saying anything negative about the military, they’re not saying anything negative about the flag, they’re just trying to protest that there are some injustices in America.”

What I heard:

"I'm no fookin' kneeler.  #freefolk"

 
Bob Sacamano said:
What Alejandro Villanueva said:

“People that are taking a knee are not saying anything negative about the military, they’re not saying anything negative about the flag, they’re just trying to protest that there are some injustices in America.”

What I heard:

"I'm no fookin' kneeler.  #freefolk"
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This is brilliant.

 
Bob Sacamano said:
What Alejandro Villanueva said:

“People that are taking a knee are not saying anything negative about the military, they’re not saying anything negative about the flag, they’re just trying to protest that there are some injustices in America.”

What I heard:

"I'm no fookin' kneeler.  #freefolk"
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This is brilliant.

 
Foosball God said:
They just brought back a master armorer, doesn't seem that far out there.
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Right. And we know that there was a smith in KL that could shape Valerian Steel. Wouldn't be that far off to have Gendry pipe in during a discussion about needing a special sword, "Me master was one of the last know smiths that could work with Valerian Steel. I helped him forge two swords our of this yuge Valerian blade." That would be followed by Sam saying, "I just happen to have one right here my family doesn't need anymore. Wouldn't want to destroy Long Claw to make this blade."

 
TheFanatic said:
Right. And we know that there was a smith in KL that could shape Valerian Steel. Wouldn't be that far off to have Gendry pipe in during a discussion about needing a special sword, "Me master was one of the last know smiths that could work with Valerian Steel. I helped him forge two swords our of this yuge Valerian blade." That would be followed by Sam saying, "I just happen to have one right here my family doesn't need anymore. Wouldn't want to destroy Long Claw to make this blade."
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If jamie makes it north, they can just reforge the original Ice from his sword and Brienne's.

 
beer 30 said:
Good time for Melisandre to re-enter the picture and throw some magic on it. Or be sacrificed on the new sward to awaken it's power.
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Seems to dovetail a bit too neatly with the whole "if you show up in the north again I'll execute you" thing, but they've gone with the glaringly obvious for the last season, so it's a likely scenario.

 
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Gr00vus said:
You mean the dagger that they've beaten us over the head with its valyrian steelness for multiple seasons? Nah.
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No not that one - the one with the dragon bone handle - and printed in neon colors in the black and white book that Samwell happened to be reading...

 
Bob Sacamano said:
What Alejandro Villanueva said:

“People that are taking a knee are not saying anything negative about the military, they’re not saying anything negative about the flag, they’re just trying to protest that there are some injustices in America.”

What I heard:

"I'm no fookin' kneeler.  #freefolk"
Click to expand...
Love the freefolk subreddit.

 
Rereading again.

Such a dazzling display of bad decisions in the first book, but Ned really is the prize moron in all this. He figures out the big secret, which is of course why (at least in his head) Jon Arryn gets assassinated by the Lannisters, so the obvious conclusion is to tell the very same Lannisters that you've figured out the same big secret, with the follow on plan of doing nothing until Robert gets back - whenever that is since he's on an indefinite hunting trip. And to top it off, you tell your 13 and 10 year olds they're going to be leaving town (which you're trying to accomplish secretly), but don't bother to tell them not to tell anyone and don't bother to make sure they don't wander off.

He totally deserved to have his head cut off - he wasn't using it for anything anyway.

The other thing that stands out now is how creeped out everyone is by the Winterfell crypts and the tombs of the old Stark kings. He really plays that up. I wonder if there will end up being some connection between the Stark dead in the Winterfell crypts and the Others.

Also, where the heck did "Ned" come from? The guy's name is Eddard.

 
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Gr00vus said:
Rereading again.

Such a dazzling display of bad decisions in the first book, but Ned really is the prize moron in all this. He figures out the big secret, which is of course why (at least in his head) Jon Arryn gets assassinated by the Lannisters, so the obvious conclusion is to tell the very same Lannisters that you've figured out the same big secret, with the follow on plan of doing nothing until Robert gets back - whenever that is since he's on an indefinite hunting trip. And to top it off, you tell your 13 and 10 year olds they're going to be leaving town (which you're trying to accomplish secretly), but don't bother to tell them not to tell anyone and don't bother to make sure they don't wander off.

He totally deserved to have his head cut off - he wasn't using it for anything anyway.

The other thing that stands out now is how creeped out everyone is by the Winterfell crypts and the tombs of the old Stark kings. He really plays that up. I wonder if there will end up being some connection between the Stark dead in the Winterfell crypts and the Others.

Also, where the heck did "Ned" come from? The guy's name is Eddard.
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Ned is a shortened version of Edward - a bastardization of Eddard

When the Others get to Winterfell, and raise the dead in the crypts - its going to get very interesting...

 
KarmaPolice said:
More news about Book 6 still not even close to being done?
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Oh, I should've made it clearer. There's no news on TWOW at all. Just a new Wild Cards, which reminded me that the ASOIAF thread had been collecting dust for a while. The most fans can hope for is maybe an update on New Year's. Maybe.

 
Who cares if Winds will be out before the next season?  The next season is the end - its already beyond anything contemplated for Winds...

 
KarmaPolice said:
Incorrect.  GRRM's writing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> show writing.  
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duh,,,,but gee guess what happens in the book? Stannis battles the boltons....loses and dies. Jon snow comes back from the dead....Tyrion wanders essos. what sansa gonna do? lady stoneheart? .......meh it don't matter its playing out on the screen....

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
duh,,,,but gee guess what happens in the book? Stannis battles the boltons....loses and dies. Jon snow comes back from the dead....Tyrion wanders essos. what sansa gonna do? lady stoneheart? .......meh it don't matter its playing out on the screen....
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Sure, all of those things will probably happen in the book and when they do, they will happen WAY better than in the show. 

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
When I'm reading this glorious book I'm going to enjoy it twice as much knowing that you guys are missing out on the detail and intrigue, richly intertwined narrative and callbacks to something 2500 pages ago that all got dumped by the show.
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You're so cute being optimistic about reading books that will never be finished. 

:ptts:

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
When I'm reading this glorious book I'm going to enjoy it twice as much knowing that you guys are missing out on the detail and intrigue, richly intertwined narrative and callbacks to something 2500 pages ago that all got dumped by the show.
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That sounds more like a you problem.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
When I'm reading this glorious book I'm going to enjoy it twice as much knowing that you guys are missing out on the detail and intrigue, richly intertwined narrative and callbacks to something 2500 pages ago that all got dumped by the show.
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The books are bloated and convoluted.  

The tv show is a vast improvement. @sn0mm1s bat signal

 
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