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Moe Green

Philip Rivers Thread

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I'm the resident Charger optimist, and I thought LT's move was bush league, and that the post game "it's nothing" characterization is BS.LT was clearly upset and frustrated with Rivers, and reacted in a child like manner that lacked class and leadership. Winning cured the ill this time, but you find out about a players character when times are tough. It's easy to be a "leader" when you're smoking everyone and going 14-2. :bye: LT2.

I'd throw the new "controversy" in the same file as..."You know Shanny is stoked to see Merriman on TV during a game week"...and..."LT made a phone call to Marty!".Both of these were followed by big wins. Sometimes the sky simply isn't falling.
No sky is falling talk from me. I'm not predicting a Charger implosion b/c of this incident.But I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen. It did. LT made an ### out of himself, choosing to diss Philip instead of encouraging him and trying to provide some positive reenforcement.
Oh, I wasn't directing the "sky is falling" comment directly at you, just that everyone seems to be making such an issue of it. It's the craze in sports "news". The melodrama off the field gets just as much coverage/discussion as what actually happens on the field of play. If I want to find out which coach is shaking hands with another coach.... or who is sitting next to whom on the sidelines.... I go straight to ESPN to keep me updated! It's almost like an SNL skit that these things get this much coverage. Sometimes I think ESPN is running a parity of itself.

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I'm the resident Charger optimist, and I thought LT's move was bush league, and that the post game "it's nothing" characterization is BS.LT was clearly upset and frustrated with Rivers, and reacted in a child like manner that lacked class and leadership. Winning cured the ill this time, but you find out about a players character when times are tough. It's easy to be a "leader" when you're smoking everyone and going 14-2. :angry: LT2.

It was really uncool what LT did to Rivers. It isn't the first time this year LT has been a jerk to him. I remember in another game at the beginning of the year, Rivers overthrew Gates, and LT was open, and when they were going to the sidelines LT started yelling at Rivers, and Rivers looked like he was trying to explain why he made the throw, then Gates got between them both, and Rivers was still trying to explain, and LT turned his back on him and walked away. I feel bad for Philip. He is struggling this year, and to have a teammate act this way towards him during a game, it doesn't help things.

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NFL.com has a highlight video. The moment in question happens around 1:50 in.

I see the same thing that I described earlier. I must be as blind as Family Matters.

PS FM reason number 64 why AJ Smith's job is nowhere near to being in jeopardy.

Stat of the Week

So you want to know how active your team will be with a good free-agency market coming up in three months? Here's a chart of how much cap space each team was due to have next spring as of Saturday, along with how many players each team has under contract:

Team Signed Players 2008 cap room

1. Tennessee 39 $40.85 million

2. San Diego 44 $33.03 million

3. Jacksonville 43 $32.69 million

4. Buffalo 49 $32.05 million

5. New Orleans 39 $31.69 million

6. Cincinnati 48 $31.45 million

7. San Francisco 48 $30.91 million

8. Cleveland 42 $30.31 million

9. Arizona 34 $30.27 million

10.N.Y. Jets 45 $27.72 million

11.Oakland 40 $25.98 million

12.Tampa Bay 48 $25.90 million

13.Miami 48 $25.56 million

14.N.Y. Giants 49 $24.47 million

15.Detroit 42 $23.50 million

16.Houston 43 $22.91 million

17.Dallas 40 $20.61 million

18.Kansas City 44 $20.27 million

19.Chicago 52 $19.80 million

20.Pittsburgh 43 $18.61 million

21.Green Bay 48 $18.37 million

22.Philadelphia 49 $17.17 million

23.Denver 49 $16.77 million

24.Minnesota 49 $14.88 million

25.New England 41 $10.93 million

26.St. Louis 45 $9.61 million

27.Seattle 44 $9.55 million

28.Indianapolis 48 $8.49 million

29.Carolina 35 $6.05 million

30.Atlanta 52 $5.79 million*

31.Baltimore 42 $5.00 million

32.Washington 45 -$20.72 million

* Not including unspecified potential rebate from contested return of Michael Vick's pro-rated signing bonus.

And yes, you read it right. The Washington Redskins are $20 million over the projected '08 cap, a number that will be reduced once the 'Skins convert some bonuses assigned to the '08 cap (including a hefty one paid to tight end Chris Cooley) to signing bonuses, which can be pro-rated over the life of the contract.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...9/week14/4.html

So the savings from Brees was that much? So does this contridict the point that Walter Slovotsky kept making about SD spending near their Cap limit each year? Am I missing something?
Lots.

The entire reason they are that far under the cap is due to the fact they didn't overpay Brees and pay both Brees and Rivers huge salaries. They didn't overpay Gates when everyone said they should. They didn't give Rivers a contract like the #1 pick in the draft like he wanted.

The $ number you see there is the reason behind a lot of moves by AJ that have been questioned in the past.

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NFL.com has a highlight video. The moment in question happens around 1:50 in.

I see the same thing that I described earlier. I must be as blind as Family Matters.

PS FM reason number 64 why AJ Smith's job is nowhere near to being in jeopardy.

Stat of the Week

So you want to know how active your team will be with a good free-agency market coming up in three months? Here's a chart of how much cap space each team was due to have next spring as of Saturday, along with how many players each team has under contract:

Team Signed Players 2008 cap room

1. Tennessee 39 $40.85 million

2. San Diego 44 $33.03 million

3. Jacksonville 43 $32.69 million

4. Buffalo 49 $32.05 million

5. New Orleans 39 $31.69 million

6. Cincinnati 48 $31.45 million

7. San Francisco 48 $30.91 million

8. Cleveland 42 $30.31 million

9. Arizona 34 $30.27 million

10.N.Y. Jets 45 $27.72 million

11.Oakland 40 $25.98 million

12.Tampa Bay 48 $25.90 million

13.Miami 48 $25.56 million

14.N.Y. Giants 49 $24.47 million

15.Detroit 42 $23.50 million

16.Houston 43 $22.91 million

17.Dallas 40 $20.61 million

18.Kansas City 44 $20.27 million

19.Chicago 52 $19.80 million

20.Pittsburgh 43 $18.61 million

21.Green Bay 48 $18.37 million

22.Philadelphia 49 $17.17 million

23.Denver 49 $16.77 million

24.Minnesota 49 $14.88 million

25.New England 41 $10.93 million

26.St. Louis 45 $9.61 million

27.Seattle 44 $9.55 million

28.Indianapolis 48 $8.49 million

29.Carolina 35 $6.05 million

30.Atlanta 52 $5.79 million*

31.Baltimore 42 $5.00 million

32.Washington 45 -$20.72 million

* Not including unspecified potential rebate from contested return of Michael Vick's pro-rated signing bonus.

And yes, you read it right. The Washington Redskins are $20 million over the projected '08 cap, a number that will be reduced once the 'Skins convert some bonuses assigned to the '08 cap (including a hefty one paid to tight end Chris Cooley) to signing bonuses, which can be pro-rated over the life of the contract.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...9/week14/4.html

So the savings from Brees was that much? So does this contridict the point that Walter Slovotsky kept making about SD spending near their Cap limit each year? Am I missing something?
Apparently you're missing the entire point of the post. This is the Chargers cap space for 2008, not for 2007. As far as I know, the Chargers are right at the cap limit for 2007.

In the offseason, I'm sure AJ will try to lock up Cromartie and a couple other young Bolts to long term extensions. Then he'll make a couple moves via free agency, getting the Bolts close to the cap. By week 7, if the Bolts haven't had to use the remaining cap space, AJ will accelerate a couple of bonuses so that the Chargers are maxed out against the cap, and have more room in the following offseason.

Happens every year.

You may be right, I might be missing something. But comparing to where they are versus others, they seem on the low end of things. That usually means they are spending less. Guess it would be helpful to know where they are right now, for this season compared to the rest of the NFL. That would paint a better picture I guess. Anyone know?
The goal for GM's is to maximize player talent at the lowest price possible. The Chargers are one of the 3-4 most talented teams in the league, they're extremely young, and they have 44 players signed through 2008, with a projected $30M+ in cap space to add talent in the offseason.

Anyone with any objectivity would agree that the Chargers roster has been crafted with brilliance and is set for a nice long run.

Edited by tommyGunZ

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NFL.com has a highlight video. The moment in question happens around 1:50 in.

I see the same thing that I described earlier. I must be as blind as Family Matters.

PS FM reason number 64 why AJ Smith's job is nowhere near to being in jeopardy.

Stat of the Week

So you want to know how active your team will be with a good free-agency market coming up in three months? Here's a chart of how much cap space each team was due to have next spring as of Saturday, along with how many players each team has under contract:

Team Signed Players 2008 cap room

1. Tennessee 39 $40.85 million

2. San Diego 44 $33.03 million

3. Jacksonville 43 $32.69 million

4. Buffalo 49 $32.05 million

5. New Orleans 39 $31.69 million

6. Cincinnati 48 $31.45 million

7. San Francisco 48 $30.91 million

8. Cleveland 42 $30.31 million

9. Arizona 34 $30.27 million

10.N.Y. Jets 45 $27.72 million

11.Oakland 40 $25.98 million

12.Tampa Bay 48 $25.90 million

13.Miami 48 $25.56 million

14.N.Y. Giants 49 $24.47 million

15.Detroit 42 $23.50 million

16.Houston 43 $22.91 million

17.Dallas 40 $20.61 million

18.Kansas City 44 $20.27 million

19.Chicago 52 $19.80 million

20.Pittsburgh 43 $18.61 million

21.Green Bay 48 $18.37 million

22.Philadelphia 49 $17.17 million

23.Denver 49 $16.77 million

24.Minnesota 49 $14.88 million

25.New England 41 $10.93 million

26.St. Louis 45 $9.61 million

27.Seattle 44 $9.55 million

28.Indianapolis 48 $8.49 million

29.Carolina 35 $6.05 million

30.Atlanta 52 $5.79 million*

31.Baltimore 42 $5.00 million

32.Washington 45 -$20.72 million

* Not including unspecified potential rebate from contested return of Michael Vick's pro-rated signing bonus.

And yes, you read it right. The Washington Redskins are $20 million over the projected '08 cap, a number that will be reduced once the 'Skins convert some bonuses assigned to the '08 cap (including a hefty one paid to tight end Chris Cooley) to signing bonuses, which can be pro-rated over the life of the contract.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...9/week14/4.html

So the savings from Brees was that much? So does this contridict the point that Walter Slovotsky kept making about SD spending near their Cap limit each year? Am I missing something?
Yes you are missing something, and no it does not contradict my point about SD spendind near the cap every year. In fact, in reinforces my point. As I bolded above, these are projected cap numbers for next spring. This says nothing about the Charger's current year cap situation. As I stated before, the Chargers structure their contracts in such a way that each year they have significant amounts of cap space at the beginning of the year (last spring it was somewhere around $28 million). They then proceed to resign or extend existing player contracts, sign free agents, draft picks and UDFA's. Usually they will use all of their allocated cap space for the year.

Your comment simply reinforces my opinion that you have no idea of how the Chargers manage their cap space and payroll from year to year.

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NFL.com has a highlight video. The moment in question happens around 1:50 in.

I see the same thing that I described earlier. I must be as blind as Family Matters.

PS FM reason number 64 why AJ Smith's job is nowhere near to being in jeopardy.

Stat of the Week

So you want to know how active your team will be with a good free-agency market coming up in three months? Here's a chart of how much cap space each team was due to have next spring as of Saturday, along with how many players each team has under contract:

Team Signed Players 2008 cap room

1. Tennessee 39 $40.85 million

2. San Diego 44 $33.03 million

3. Jacksonville 43 $32.69 million

4. Buffalo 49 $32.05 million

5. New Orleans 39 $31.69 million

6. Cincinnati 48 $31.45 million

7. San Francisco 48 $30.91 million

8. Cleveland 42 $30.31 million

9. Arizona 34 $30.27 million

10.N.Y. Jets 45 $27.72 million

11.Oakland 40 $25.98 million

12.Tampa Bay 48 $25.90 million

13.Miami 48 $25.56 million

14.N.Y. Giants 49 $24.47 million

15.Detroit 42 $23.50 million

16.Houston 43 $22.91 million

17.Dallas 40 $20.61 million

18.Kansas City 44 $20.27 million

19.Chicago 52 $19.80 million

20.Pittsburgh 43 $18.61 million

21.Green Bay 48 $18.37 million

22.Philadelphia 49 $17.17 million

23.Denver 49 $16.77 million

24.Minnesota 49 $14.88 million

25.New England 41 $10.93 million

26.St. Louis 45 $9.61 million

27.Seattle 44 $9.55 million

28.Indianapolis 48 $8.49 million

29.Carolina 35 $6.05 million

30.Atlanta 52 $5.79 million*

31.Baltimore 42 $5.00 million

32.Washington 45 -$20.72 million

* Not including unspecified potential rebate from contested return of Michael Vick's pro-rated signing bonus.

And yes, you read it right. The Washington Redskins are $20 million over the projected '08 cap, a number that will be reduced once the 'Skins convert some bonuses assigned to the '08 cap (including a hefty one paid to tight end Chris Cooley) to signing bonuses, which can be pro-rated over the life of the contract.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...9/week14/4.html

So the savings from Brees was that much? So does this contridict the point that Walter Slovotsky kept making about SD spending near their Cap limit each year? Am I missing something?
Apparently you're missing the entire point of the post. This is the Chargers cap space for 2008, not for 2007. As far as I know, the Chargers are right at the cap limit for 2007.

In the offseason, I'm sure AJ will try to lock up Cromartie and a couple other young Bolts to long term extensions. Then he'll make a couple moves via free agency, getting the Bolts close to the cap. By week 7, if the Bolts haven't had to use the remaining cap space, AJ will accelerate a couple of bonuses so that the Chargers are maxed out against the cap, and have more room in the following offseason.

Happens every year.

You may be right, I might be missing something. But comparing to where they are versus others, they seem on the low end of things. That usually means they are spending less. Guess it would be helpful to know where they are right now, for this season compared to the rest of the NFL. That would paint a better picture I guess. Anyone know?
The bolded part is incorrect. All these numbers mean is that they have less uncommitted money at the beginning of the year than all but one team. It says nothing about what they are currently spending. It is difficult to actual current year numbers, due to things like accelerating bonuses to clear money off of next years cap, mid season free agent signings, etc. And most contracts aren't made available to the public. I believe Kevin Acee reported at the beginning of the year that the Chargers entered the season with about $750K of available cap space, but I can't find that quote right now.

At any rate, considering the overall talent level and age of the players the Chargers have under contract, having that kind of cap space available only tells me one thing. AJ Smith is doing a great job in the player personnel department.

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I'm the resident Charger optimist, and I thought LT's move was bush league, and that the post game "it's nothing" characterization is BS.

LT was clearly upset and frustrated with Rivers, and reacted in a child like manner that lacked class and leadership. Winning cured the ill this time, but you find out about a players character when times are tough. It's easy to be a "leader" when you're smoking everyone and going 14-2.

:goodposting: LT2.

It was really uncool what LT did to Rivers. It isn't the first time this year LT has been a jerk to him. I remember in another game at the beginning of the year, Rivers overthrew Gates, and LT was open, and when they were going to the sidelines LT started yelling at Rivers, and Rivers looked like he was trying to explain why he made the throw, then Gates got between them both, and Rivers was still trying to explain, and LT turned his back on him and walked away. I feel bad for Philip. He is struggling this year, and to have a teammate act this way towards him during a game, it doesn't help things.
And it isn't just any teammate, it is the current face of the franchise and one of the faces of the NFL. That is what makes it bad. If other players did it, it wouldn't draw the same kind of media attention, nor would it have the same potential to undermine Rivers with others on the team.

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That's great. I'm surprised to have heard it characterized on multiple shows as "hostile" if that is all it was. But glad to hear it. Hopefully everyone on the team shares the same understanding that it is a non-issue.
It's a non issue because they ended up winning. LT's explanation is not very believable if you see the video.
As soon as I saw it happen on TV during the game, I thought to myself, "People are going to read stuff into that that isn't there." Rivers sat down and LT got up. Correlation != causation.

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That's great. I'm surprised to have heard it characterized on multiple shows as "hostile" if that is all it was. But glad to hear it. Hopefully everyone on the team shares the same understanding that it is a non-issue.
It's a non issue because they ended up winning. LT's explanation is not very believable if you see the video.
As soon as I saw it happen on TV during the game, I thought to myself, "People are going to read stuff into that that isn't there." Rivers sat down and LT got up. Correlation != causation.
:rolleyes:

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That's great. I'm surprised to have heard it characterized on multiple shows as "hostile" if that is all it was. But glad to hear it. Hopefully everyone on the team shares the same understanding that it is a non-issue.
It's a non issue because they ended up winning. LT's explanation is not very believable if you see the video.
As soon as I saw it happen on TV during the game, I thought to myself, "People are going to read stuff into that that isn't there." Rivers sat down and LT got up. Correlation != causation.
You really believe it was a coincidence?

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That's great. I'm surprised to have heard it characterized on multiple shows as "hostile" if that is all it was. But glad to hear it. Hopefully everyone on the team shares the same understanding that it is a non-issue.
It's a non issue because they ended up winning. LT's explanation is not very believable if you see the video.
As soon as I saw it happen on TV during the game, I thought to myself, "People are going to read stuff into that that isn't there." Rivers sat down and LT got up. Correlation != causation.
You really believe it was a coincidence?
I think he wanted some space and would have done the same no matter who sat next to him.

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That's great. I'm surprised to have heard it characterized on multiple shows as "hostile" if that is all it was. But glad to hear it. Hopefully everyone on the team shares the same understanding that it is a non-issue.
It's a non issue because they ended up winning. LT's explanation is not very believable if you see the video.
As soon as I saw it happen on TV during the game, I thought to myself, "People are going to read stuff into that that isn't there." Rivers sat down and LT got up. Correlation != causation.
You really believe it was a coincidence?
At the time, I thought it was more likely a coincidence than not, although obviously one could not be sure. After the explanation, the odds are shifted way towards coincidence, IMO.

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That's great. I'm surprised to have heard it characterized on multiple shows as "hostile" if that is all it was. But glad to hear it. Hopefully everyone on the team shares the same understanding that it is a non-issue.
It's a non issue because they ended up winning. LT's explanation is not very believable if you see the video.
As soon as I saw it happen on TV during the game, I thought to myself, "People are going to read stuff into that that isn't there." Rivers sat down and LT got up. Correlation != causation.
You really believe it was a coincidence?
I think he wanted some space and would have done the same no matter who sat next to him.
He should wait until after the game to pout. That's not the type of behavior or attitude you want coming from the leader of your football team.

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That's great. I'm surprised to have heard it characterized on multiple shows as "hostile" if that is all it was. But glad to hear it. Hopefully everyone on the team shares the same understanding that it is a non-issue.
It's a non issue because they ended up winning. LT's explanation is not very believable if you see the video.
As soon as I saw it happen on TV during the game, I thought to myself, "People are going to read stuff into that that isn't there." Rivers sat down and LT got up. Correlation != causation.
You really believe it was a coincidence?
I think he wanted some space and would have done the same no matter who sat next to him.
He should wait until after the game to pout. That's not the type of behavior or attitude you want coming from the leader of your football team.
Needing space isn't pouting. He looked more pissed off than anything.

It's an emotional game, people get frustrated. Everything seems to be ironed out now, which is what I would expect.

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:thumbup: Sorry, I thought this was a Rivers thread....

It's already been firmly established that you were right and Rivers does indeed suck.
I still don't think he sucks, just like I said Eli Manning didn't suck last year when people were ready to jump off bridges because of his poor play, but he is not playing well to be sure. IMO there are several factors that contribute to his poor performences but I'll admit earlier in the year I felt like he was a solid every week starter but this year he's been a QBBC. It's still fair to note that based on where he was being drafted he was likely drafted as a QBBC. He may be a slight bust(QB16 this year with an ADP of QB11) but there are much, much bigger busts out there. IMO very few people had their season ruined by Rivers drafted #79 overall when compared to Young(#76ADP), Bulger(#37ADP), Brees(#30ADP) or even Palmer(#22ADP).My position on that hasn't really changed all that much.
Well, to be serious once again, many Rivers backers had him as a CLEAR #1 starting QB for FF purposes, and I was criticized for having him as a deep backup QB2. If you're willing to say any QB between QB9 and QB16 are QBBC guys, I'll give you that much - but I had him beyond that. Several people had Rivers above that level, which I vehemently opposed.As for him sucking - I give him the benefit of some doubt that he can still grow and develop - but my severe warning was all about FF for 2007.
I think this list is pretty much unchanged;Here's your list of guy after Rivers ADP that were better options and could have been had even cheaper than Rivers...Leinart -Hasselbeck +Cutler +Favre +Eli +Grossman -Losman -Smith -Schaub -Delhomme -I guess some of it just comes down to what type of league you're in. If you're in a league where you can just pick up starters anytime you want off the WW then maybe that list looks better.
And that's pretty much how the finished the season. In FF Eli slightly edged Rivers but in real Football I'd say Rivers was clearly better than Eli this season. So of the 10 Pasquino had pegged as better values to be drafted after Rivers I'd give him a 4/10 fantasy wise(which was the basis of his rankings), a 3/10 in term of real football.The big shock to me out of the group was Hass. He was buried in my preseason rankings. I really thought this was the season SEA might pull a BAL and look very old very fast with Alexander/Hass coming into the season with health ?'s and getting up there in age behind a declining OL.The only two on your list I thought would have better seasons than Rivers were Favre and Eli. I had Cutler pegged for just about the same #'s but in my opinion he clearly had a better season(and from what I've seen I still say he's the better QB of the two... but it still may be closer than most people think).I have a funny feeling we're going to have a similar thread next season.

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Happy New Years day, fellas.

Dont know if this has been mentioned in the 600 or so posts prior, but does anyone following this team see Rivers getting traded this offseason?? The guy's in his 4th year, will be entering his 5th next season, so an extension will be expected with him soon if he stays. But I just dont like what I see from him in the way of leadership. I mean physically, Ive always felt he's had one of the goofiest, herky jerky throwing styles in the history of football that leads me not trust the guy from a mechanical standpoint. But how many times do we need to see this team's best player hollering at the guy, or having words, or walking away from him on the bench or just basically and seemingly NOT having confidence in the guy? The ridiculously embarassing rant with Jay Cuter on national TV for me is a somewhat of a final straw. There's something there this guy just doesnt get. I dont care what the dynamics of that situation were. That's just flat embarassing. Who wants a leader like that? I can see Rivers getting moved somewhere like Atlanta, the Jets or possibly Carolina considering he went to NC State. Im sure there are other possible places he could be moved, and Im not sure what kindof value he has. But by letting Brees walk, its obvious that Smith there isnt afraid to turn the page with QBs. Charlie Whitehurst has been there for 2 years doing basically the same thing Rivers did before he got his shot. Of course, alot will depend on what kindof playoff success SD has in the next few weeks. But I dont personally expect them to move on beyond round 2. Dont really see them losing to TN, but nothing beyond that. And the only real reason I dont give them much of a shot is Rivers. Thoughts?

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Dont know if this has been mentioned in the 600 or so posts prior, but does anyone following this team see Rivers getting traded this offseason??

No.The situation this year is entirely different than the one with Brees, Rivers is much better than what most people in this thread are saying, and I've heard nothing about the organization not appreciating his enthusiasm for the game.

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Dont know if this has been mentioned in the 600 or so posts prior, but does anyone following this team see Rivers getting traded this offseason??

No.The situation this year is entirely different than the one with Brees, Rivers is much better than what most people in this thread are saying, and I've heard nothing about the organization not appreciating his enthusiasm for the game.
I appreciate your support for your guy. And I probably shouldnt be so tough on him, especially considering that he's won 25 games in 2 years. I presume that the opinions of football guys posters are amongst the most passionate and thoughtful as a whole, so I expect what you SD fans here think of the situation is likely representative of the actual pulse of the team.

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Happy New Years day, fellas. Dont know if this has been mentioned in the 600 or so posts prior, but does anyone following this team see Rivers getting traded this offseason?? The guy's in his 4th year, will be entering his 5th next season, so an extension will be expected with him soon if he stays. But I just dont like what I see from him in the way of leadership. I mean physically, Ive always felt he's had one of the goofiest, herky jerky throwing styles in the history of football that leads me not trust the guy from a mechanical standpoint. But how many times do we need to see this team's best player hollering at the guy, or having words, or walking away from him on the bench or just basically and seemingly NOT having confidence in the guy? The ridiculously embarassing rant with Jay Cuter on national TV for me is a somewhat of a final straw. There's something there this guy just doesnt get. I dont care what the dynamics of that situation were. That's just flat embarassing. Who wants a leader like that? I can see Rivers getting moved somewhere like Atlanta, the Jets or possibly Carolina considering he went to NC State. Im sure there are other possible places he could be moved, and Im not sure what kindof value he has. But by letting Brees walk, its obvious that Smith there isnt afraid to turn the page with QBs. Charlie Whitehurst has been there for 2 years doing basically the same thing Rivers did before he got his shot. Of course, alot will depend on what kindof playoff success SD has in the next few weeks. But I dont personally expect them to move on beyond round 2. Dont really see them losing to TN, but nothing beyond that. And the only real reason I dont give them much of a shot is Rivers. Thoughts?

No chance.On his throwing motion, it is unique, but doesn't hurt his game, so it's irrelevant. On the Jay Cutler thing, there is a great article posted in the Chargers support group thread that describes that situation very well - no issue. He's not going anywhere.

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Happy New Years day, fellas. Dont know if this has been mentioned in the 600 or so posts prior, but does anyone following this team see Rivers getting traded this offseason?? The guy's in his 4th year, will be entering his 5th next season, so an extension will be expected with him soon if he stays. But I just dont like what I see from him in the way of leadership. I mean physically, Ive always felt he's had one of the goofiest, herky jerky throwing styles in the history of football that leads me not trust the guy from a mechanical standpoint. But how many times do we need to see this team's best player hollering at the guy, or having words, or walking away from him on the bench or just basically and seemingly NOT having confidence in the guy? The ridiculously embarassing rant with Jay Cuter on national TV for me is a somewhat of a final straw. There's something there this guy just doesnt get. I dont care what the dynamics of that situation were. That's just flat embarassing. Who wants a leader like that? I can see Rivers getting moved somewhere like Atlanta, the Jets or possibly Carolina considering he went to NC State. Im sure there are other possible places he could be moved, and Im not sure what kindof value he has. But by letting Brees walk, its obvious that Smith there isnt afraid to turn the page with QBs. Charlie Whitehurst has been there for 2 years doing basically the same thing Rivers did before he got his shot. Of course, alot will depend on what kindof playoff success SD has in the next few weeks. But I dont personally expect them to move on beyond round 2. Dont really see them losing to TN, but nothing beyond that. And the only real reason I dont give them much of a shot is Rivers. Thoughts?

No chance.On his throwing motion, it is unique, but doesn't hurt his game, so it's irrelevant. On the Jay Cutler thing, there is a great article posted in the Chargers support group thread that describes that situation very well - no issue. He's not going anywhere.
Im not gonna read that article, but what's the deal with that situation, J. Can you summarize how that situation evolved?

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Rivers is real

Kevin Acee

December 27, 2007

So many e-mails, so many questions in the mailbag. I thought I'd just give my take on the hyper QB here.

I cannot stress enough how great a guy Philip Rivers is. I say that not because he makes my job easier and more enjoyable. I say it because it is the truth.

He is not a poor sport or in any way the ugly trash talker some are portraying.

I defend him (if that's what you want to call it) because I know that he's real. He is who he is. And it is what makes him who he is -- on the field, in the locker room, at practice. He just loves the game and plays it all out.

Nope, he has not yet won a playoff game. (He's 0-1 in the postseason.) But after 31 regular-season starts, he has won 24 times. He has an 86.8 passer rating and has thrown 41 touchdown passes to 24 interceptions in those 31 starts.

Sure, as Champ Bailey noted, he is surrounded by great players. Rivers is fortunate to have LT, Antonio Gates and now Chris Chambers. But Rivers is also a very good quarterback. He has struggled this year. He is not a Pro Bowler. But he makes throws and decisions that reveal he is a fine QB. And he is tougher than many.

As for how Rivers acts on the field, his talking and gesturing is part of his play. It always has been. I'd imagine it always will be.

The comment I hear most often is that Rivers should stop talking and concentrate on playing better. Do people who say that think he is not spending 80 hours a week working on being better? Do they think if he stopped yapping, he'd automatically be better. I argue that he might be worse.

I used to cover a guy named Jim Edmonds, who had something of the opposite "problem" as Rivers. His teammates and Angels management wondered aloud again and again how good a player Edmonds would be if he just tried harder, was more passionate about the game. Thing was, Edmonds was the most exciting and most clutch baseball player I ever covered on a daily basis. When the rest of the Angels were collapsing in September of 1998, he was batting something like .380. His argument (and mine) was that if he were a different guy, he wouldn't be as good a player.

I'm not saying everything Rivers says or does is brilliant or even advised.

But honestly, if Rivers were a linebacker, no one would even notice. As he said yesterday, if he were to give me a list of all the things that were said on the field Monday night by every player, "It would be longer than the Mitchell Report."

He does not talk about people's mom's or wives. He doesn't curse.

"To think of what is said on the field that is way worse than anything out of my mouth is unimaginable," Rivers said.

He has all the respect in the world for Champ Bailey.

"You don't go after the guy," Rivers said.

But he loves to have fun and considers that fun part of the game. When he does complete a pass on Bailey, if Bailey looks at him, Rivers said he will grin "like, 'Hey we got you.' It's always been a very respectful communication between me and him."

He noted that maybe Bailey hasn't taken it that way.

Rivers was honestly surprised by the hubbub over what happened Monday.

He said he took no offense to what anyone said to him or his teammates. Recalling Jamie Winborn hollering about Lorenzo Neal on Monday, Rivers said, "So what? I would have done that too. It's fun."

I promise you he is like that pretty much every moment of the day. Quite a few times I have gotten irritated at him for interrupting an interview by walking by and making fun of me or his teammate that I'm trying to talk to.

The reasons this is an issue is because ESPN had about a million cameras at that game and the game was a blowout and Rivers was on the sideline. And because he is a quarterback, people think he shouldn't act this way.

As he reminded me last night of his high school career, "I used to be a linebacker."

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From the Chargers support group thread:

I hate to break it to some of you, but Rivers is never going to change. I personally welcome his fiery attitude and have not really seen any instance (outside of a 5 YARD delay penalty) in which his emotions had a negative impact on his play on the field. I also find it amusing that Champ Bailey has such a problem with him considering "in four career starts against the Broncos, Rivers has a 119.8 passer rating, and the Chargers have won all four by an average of 39-13. In those games, he has completed 69.6 of his passes for 960 yards and seven touchdowns with two interceptions."

Broncos hate Rivers' talk show

Monday night mouthiness creates a flap in Denver

By Kevin Acee

UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

December 27, 2007

Philip Rivers got the Denver Broncos bucking mad, and he doesn't really understand why.

“I don't know what the big deal is,” the Chargers quarterback said yesterday.

Two days after the Chargers beat them, the Broncos were still talking about Rivers and his mouth.

“I don't really care for the guy, first of all,” Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey told the Rocky Mountain News yesterday. “He's not a respectable guy right now, because you talk too much trash and do this and that, but you're really not a great player in this league right now. You're surrounded by great players, but you're not a great player.

“I think he needs to understand where he stands in this league – on his team first and foremost. They've got a lot of classy guys on that team. He kind of represents the classless guy on that team. He's definitely lost my respect.”

Even before Monday night's game Bailey told ESPN he didn't like Rivers because of how much Rivers talks.

In fact, someone told Rivers about the ESPN report during the game and he asked Bailey on the field, “Champ, what's up? I thought we were tight.”

Rivers talks almost constantly on the field. He considers it part of the game and loves getting into exchanges with opponents.

“I talked no more in that game than any game in my life,” he said. “ . . . We get after our guys more in practice than in that game.”

Bailey and other Broncos spoke yesterday in response to questions about Rivers being caught on camera yelling toward the Broncos during the fourth quarter, long after he had been taken out of the game in the 23-3 rout.

After a failed fourth-down pass by Jay Cutler, Rivers was shown going a few steps onto the field to greet linebackers Shaun Phillips and Matt Wilhelm. While doing so, he was looking toward the Broncos.

“We get a fourth-down stop,” Rivers recalled yesterday. “I'm not in the game anymore, so I'm way into the defense more than I normally am. . . . Matt Wilhelm and Shaun Phillips, those guys have been jawing the whole game with them. We get a good stop. They are jawing. I'm not anywhere involved. I come out to congratulate them on the stop, and while I'm out there, yeah, there is some eye contact, but I'm saying, 'Atta baby' to Matt Wilhelm and Shaun Phillips. Sure there is eye contact. Maybe there is a smirk. But I am speaking to my guys.”

Cutler could be seen at midfield looking in their direction, and Phillips said yesterday that it was Cutler who started the talking.

“It's funny,” Phillips said. “Philip walked out and told us not to say anything, that we're winning. And Cutler is yelling. . . . Cutler does a lot of talking. I thought it was funny they were talking and losing.”

Phillips said in the fourth quarter Cutler was “just letting us know he wasn't a punk. I respect that. He was letting us know he'd see us next time.”

In the exchange, Wilhelm was seen waving good-bye to the Broncos, and Phillips was pointing at the scoreboard.

But there was immediate reaction from the television commentators and in the ensuing days from fans about how the behavior was unbecoming for Rivers.

Rivers has heard the talk for more than a year that he gets too riled up during games. He has long maintained it's simply how he plays and that it even helps him.

“I'm not going to change,” he said. “ . . . I'm not saying I'm trying to be the guy who goes nuts and acts crazy. That's not who I am. But the thing is there are no bad intentions. It's all in fun.”

Other Chargers defended Rivers.

“What they've got to understand is Philip is a football player,” tight end Antonio Gates said. “If they put him in that category it wouldn't be a problem. But since he's a quarterback, quarterbacks stereotypically shouldn't say or do or act a certain kind of way on the field.

“That's the thing that's not known about him. We know him as a person. He does it in the locker room, in practice, on the field. He plays the game with his heart. That's why he's that way.”

Rivers also explained yesterday another time he was caught talking by ESPN's cameras on Monday. Rivers said after a play in which Broncos linebacker Jamie Winborn had gotten past fullback Andrew Pinnock, Winborn came near the Chargers sideline and yelled, “Where's Lo Neal?”

Rivers said he yelled back, “The ball is over there,” and then yelled to Winborn, “You're glad he ain't playing.”

Cutler said yesterday the Broncos had discussed Rivers' antics.

“It's an unfortunate situation,” he said. “They talk a lot of stuff. It got heated between the two teams. Personally, I don't think the teams like each other, which is fine. It's just going to add to it later next year and the year after that. It should be exciting.”

Of all the teams to question what Rivers has done, Denver seems an odd antagonist.

In four career starts against the Broncos, Rivers has a 119.8 passer rating, and the Chargers have won all four by an average of 39-13. In those games, he has completed 69.6 of his passes for 960 yards and seven touchdowns with two interceptions.

“I understand some of the frustration is they've lost four in a row to this team,” Rivers said. “People don't like losing four in a row.”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/charg...27chargers.html

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Dont know if this has been mentioned in the 600 or so posts prior, but does anyone following this team see Rivers getting traded this offseason??

No.
Correct.

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Also, based on thread length, it appears that Cedric Benson is more than 1.5 times as terrible as Philip Rivers -- in case Philip needed a vote of confidence.

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Rivers 1st year as a starter: 14-3, an AFC West title, and a Pro Bowl birth.

Rivers 2nd year as a starter: 12-5, an AFC West title, a playoff win, and counting.

Rivers is TERRIBLE.

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Rivers 1st year as a starter: 14-3, an AFC West title, and a Pro Bowl birth.Rivers 2nd year as a starter: 12-5, an AFC West title, a playoff win, and counting.Rivers is TERRIBLE.

If he keeps this up he'll catch up to Matt Leinart in just a few more seasons.

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Rivers 1st year as a starter: 14-3, an AFC West title, and a Pro Bowl birth.Rivers 2nd year as a starter: 12-5, an AFC West title, a playoff win, and counting.Rivers is TERRIBLE.

If he keeps this up he'll catch up to Matt Leinart in just a few more seasons.
It would appear this was THE game where Rivers found himself. Though, Tennessee made it easy for him twice, he did a great job of making plays today. They basically decided they were going to make Rivers beat them...and Rivers beat them.

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Hats off to the Chargers. They totally earned this game. They may have paid too dearly unfortunately. But I have to give AJ, Norv the Charger team all the credit in the world. In fact, the depth of this team showed and paid off today. All the back ups that were called upon played critical roles and made signoficant contributions to this win. The depth I'm referring to is mostly because of AJ. He did a terrific job assembling this team.

I don't always agree with his actions or the manner he conducts his business but you cannot argue with his ability to identify talent and assemble a quality team.

Also, Norv should get his share of credit. He overcame tremendous adversity and stayed the course. I have a new level of respect for him after the way he handled this season.

Congrats Charger fans. Good luck next week!

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Man, this has set up nicely for the Pats. Colts-Bolts beat the heck out of each other --- now, LT hurt --- SD played extremely well today ---in Manning's face and coverage was tight, hits were hard.

I'd like to believe the Bolts play this way next week, but probably just shot their wad today....and they just happen to match up well against the Colts.

NE crowd I'm sure is pleased over this development.

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He had a good game today. His mechanics are awful. He still makes too many bad decisions. He's still a punk.

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uhh how did today change anything? Volek came in and looked just as good as Rivers.

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Can anyone honestly say they'd still rather have Rivers as their QB over Brees?

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Can anyone honestly say they'd still rather have Rivers as their QB over Brees?

Yes.
Thanks for your honesty, however ill-applied.

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Can anyone honestly say they'd still rather have Rivers as their QB over Brees?

Of course. I love Brees, but Rivers is the man. I know very few Charger fans who would disagree.

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Can anyone honestly say they'd still rather have Rivers as their QB over Brees?

:goodposting:Rivers played great. Especially considering he is injured.

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Can anyone honestly say they'd still rather have Rivers as their QB over Brees?

Yes. I would. And especially when you consider the difference in their contracts.

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Can anyone honestly say they'd still rather have Rivers as their QB over Brees?

:thumbup:Rivers played great. Especially considering he is injured.
Actually, if anything he's played much better since the knee injury in SD@TEN. He's been $ for more than the last two games.

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Can anyone honestly say they'd still rather have Rivers as their QB over Brees?

Yes. I would. And especially when you consider the difference in their contracts.
... or just as importantly, if you were to keep Brees then you'd be paying BOTH of their contracts and trying to pay the other 49 players on what's left over.

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he won me over todayhope he isnt hurt too badly

:lmao: The way he's played the last few games is what I'd been expecting all year. He made some nice throws today. The 1 INT I put on Davis for not fighting for the ball, Rivers got it out there where it needed to be with some zip.Great job Phil, I'll gladly eat some of the criticism I threw your way this year. Hopefully he can sustain this into next year and beyond. If he can, these guys can win a super bowl in the next year or two.

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he won me over todayhope he isnt hurt too badly

'bout time. He's now 27-8 as the Chargers starter. Unless you expected Brady type win %, you should be won over.Rivers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brees

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Man, this has set up nicely for the Pats. Colts-Bolts beat the heck out of each other --- now, LT hurt --- SD played extremely well today ---in Manning's face and coverage was tight, hits were hard.I'd like to believe the Bolts play this way next week, but probably just shot their wad today....and they just happen to match up well against the Colts. NE crowd I'm sure is pleased over this development.

I am SO tired of every thread on this board having to be about the Patriots. Give it a freakin' rest.

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Can anyone honestly say they'd still rather have Rivers as their QB over Brees?

:popcorn:

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uhh how did today change anything? Volek came in and looked just as good as Rivers.

Volek threw a 2 yrd pass to Nanee that went for 40 yards. He didn't pass the ball down field and only had 4 throws total. Please dont compare the two. Rivers is damn good, someday he will start to get the credit, 27-8 now.

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uhh how did today change anything? Volek came in and looked just as good as Rivers.

Volek threw a 2 yrd pass to Nanee that went for 40 yards. He didn't pass the ball down field and only had 4 throws total. Please dont compare the two. Rivers is damn good, someday he will start to get the credit, 27-8 now.
:no:

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Congrats to all of you who backed Rivers through thick and (mostly) thin this season.

He still needs a QB coach to work on his mechanics - but today he played very well in the biggest game of the year (until next week of course). Only ill-advised throw was the decision to throw it to a covered man (which was a pick).

The deep TD to Chambers was the highlight of the day.

If he gets his footwork down and learns to stop barking and lead by example rather than in volume, he may develop into a good one. Right now, the jury is still out for me until the consistency improves.

Good luck to Chargers fans - well most of them (TommyGunz :hot: ).

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Right now, the jury is still out for me until the consistency improves.

He's 27-8 as a starter. Not sure how much better he could be at this point.

Good luck to Chargers fans - well most of them (TommyGunz :lmao: ).

:thumbup: Karma's already biting me in the ### - Andrew Bynum just tore his knee up. :shrug: Edited by tommyGunZ

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