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QB Philip Rivers, RET (9 Viewers)

Gold Plated Nails said:
Gr00vus said:
Liquid Tension said:
So.....now who is better now, Eli or Rivers?
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Whoever threw less interceptions in the most recent week's games. So this week its Rivers.The actual correct answer is Roethlisberger.
Click to expand...
But last year (Bens second as starter) people were hating him, calling him Big Bust and what not. Sometimes people are quick to write off young QBs, as I believe is the case here with Rivers.
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Roethlisberger had a few things wrong with him physically last year. Rivers has no such excuse, and Eli much less so than Roethlisberger last year.Also, I can't recall any QB worth their salt yelling at a crowd to shut up when they were booing him. This latest example of Rivers's lack of composure is just another such in a long string of them that makes me think he doesn't have what it takes upstairs to lead a team, and to me that is possibly the most alarming short coming of his. He suffers many of the same flaws as Brees, but Brees never pulled that kind of stuff.
 
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Gold Plated Nails said:
Gr00vus said:
Liquid Tension said:
So.....now who is better now, Eli or Rivers?
Click to expand...
Whoever threw less interceptions in the most recent week's games. So this week its Rivers.The actual correct answer is Roethlisberger.
Click to expand...
But last year (Bens second as starter) people were hating him, calling him Big Bust and what not. Sometimes people are quick to write off young QBs, as I believe is the case here with Rivers.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: Any new QB needs time to make the adjustment to the NFL. Rivers is going through a adjustment period as most do and if he can maintain his confidence I think he'll be fine. But you have to expect more troubles yet this year. It's the natural process of an NFL QB and to think otherwise would not be in line with normal expectations.
 
Gr00vus said:
Gold Plated Nails said:
Gr00vus said:
Liquid Tension said:
So.....now who is better now, Eli or Rivers?
Click to expand...
Whoever threw less interceptions in the most recent week's games. So this week its Rivers.The actual correct answer is Roethlisberger.
Click to expand...
But last year (Bens second as starter) people were hating him, calling him Big Bust and what not. Sometimes people are quick to write off young QBs, as I believe is the case here with Rivers.
Click to expand...
Roethlisberger had a few things wrong with him physically last year. Rivers has no such excuse, and Eli much less so than Roethlisberger last year.Also, I can't recall any QB worth their salt yelling at a crowd to shut up when they were booing him. This latest example of Rivers's lack of composure is just another such in a long string of them that makes me think he doesn't have what it takes upstairs to lead a team, and to me that is possibly the most alarming short coming of his. He suffers many of the same flaws as Brees, but Brees never pulled that kind of stuff.
Click to expand...
Ryan Leaf? Oh never mind. You said worth their salt. :goodposting:
 
Gr00vus said:
Gold Plated Nails said:
Gr00vus said:
Liquid Tension said:
So.....now who is better now, Eli or Rivers?
Click to expand...
Whoever threw less interceptions in the most recent week's games. So this week its Rivers.The actual correct answer is Roethlisberger.
Click to expand...
But last year (Bens second as starter) people were hating him, calling him Big Bust and what not. Sometimes people are quick to write off young QBs, as I believe is the case here with Rivers.
Click to expand...
Roethlisberger had a few things wrong with him physically last year. Rivers has no such excuse, and Eli much less so than Roethlisberger last year.Also, I can't recall any QB worth their salt yelling at a crowd to shut up when they were booing him. This latest example of Rivers's lack of composure is just another such in a long string of them that makes me think he doesn't have what it takes upstairs to lead a team, and to me that is possibly the most alarming short coming of his. He suffers many of the same flaws as Brees, but Brees never pulled that kind of stuff.
Click to expand...
Brees also never got booed on the very first drive of the game after completing a pass.Its moronic and unwarranted.
 
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Mr. PadresLakers said:
Brees also never got booed on the very first drive of the game after completing a pass.Its moronic and unwarranted.
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Doesn't matter. Any QB who's got the goods shrugs it off. Instead Rivers goes into semi-tantrum mode yet again. If the fans can get into his head that easily, he's got no hope of being a championship (and I don't mean AFC Worst championship) caliber QB, plain and simple.
 
Gr00vus said:
Gold Plated Nails said:
Gr00vus said:
Liquid Tension said:
So.....now who is better now, Eli or Rivers?
Click to expand...
Whoever threw less interceptions in the most recent week's games. So this week its Rivers.The actual correct answer is Roethlisberger.
Click to expand...
But last year (Bens second as starter) people were hating him, calling him Big Bust and what not. Sometimes people are quick to write off young QBs, as I believe is the case here with Rivers.
Click to expand...
Roethlisberger had a few things wrong with him physically last year. Rivers has no such excuse, and Eli much less so than Roethlisberger last year.Also, I can't recall any QB worth their salt yelling at a crowd to shut up when they were booing him. This latest example of Rivers's lack of composure is just another such in a long string of them that makes me think he doesn't have what it takes upstairs to lead a team, and to me that is possibly the most alarming short coming of his. He suffers many of the same flaws as Brees, but Brees never pulled that kind of stuff.
Click to expand...
Accept for like a new coaching staff, to say that there is no excuse is wrong. Its his second year starting, he is due to have ups and downs, cmon Groovus :lmao: no need to throw in the towel on our 20-7 QB quite yet.
 
Gr00vus said:
Mr. PadresLakers said:
Brees also never got booed on the very first drive of the game after completing a pass.Its moronic and unwarranted.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter. Any QB who's got the goods shrugs it off. Instead Rivers goes into semi-tantrum mode yet again. If the fans can get into his head that easily, he's got no hope of being a championship (and I don't mean AFC Worst championship) caliber QB, plain and simple.
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25 for 35 for 250 yards and 3 TDsIt looks like he shrugged it off to me. It obviously didn't affect his performance the rest of the game.Charger fans are the biggest group of bandwagon idiots out there. Who the hell BOOs the first drive of the game against a solid defense? Who the hell chants for Marty three weeks into the season? Where were these clowns two years ago when the Chargers finished 9-7 and missed the playoffs with pretty much the same roster?
 
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Gold Plated Nails said:
Accept for like a new coaching staff, to say that there is no excuse is wrong. Its his second year starting, he is due to have ups and downs, cmon Groovus :devil: no need to throw in the towel on our 20-7 QB quite yet.
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I'm not throwing in the towel yet, but the hour is getting late. He needs to stop acting like a petulant child in the face of adversity before I'll start feeling better about him. All the stats in the world against blown coverages won't make up for that.
 
Gr00vus said:
Gold Plated Nails said:
Gr00vus said:
Liquid Tension said:
So.....now who is better now, Eli or Rivers?
Click to expand...
Whoever threw less interceptions in the most recent week's games. So this week its Rivers.The actual correct answer is Roethlisberger.
Click to expand...
But last year (Bens second as starter) people were hating him, calling him Big Bust and what not. Sometimes people are quick to write off young QBs, as I believe is the case here with Rivers.
Click to expand...
Roethlisberger had a few things wrong with him physically last year. Rivers has no such excuse, and Eli much less so than Roethlisberger last year.Also, I can't recall any QB worth their salt yelling at a crowd to shut up when they were booing him. This latest example of Rivers's lack of composure is just another such in a long string of them that makes me think he doesn't have what it takes upstairs to lead a team, and to me that is possibly the most alarming short coming of his. He suffers many of the same flaws as Brees, but Brees never pulled that kind of stuff.
Click to expand...
I asked the question to see the responses...My take is that Rivers has the best situation but is the worst QB of the 3. I would give Ben the edge over Eli though. Eli is a pretty good QB, but you have to remember that he really has a weak receiving group, especially with Plax hobbled and with the two starting RB's out it made it even worse. Finally, the Giants OL is very good at RB, but gets him killed. This past week was crazy, where Plax couldn't cut so he rounded his square in to the point where the defense picked it off, twice Shockey oblivious to a blitz ran a pattern without turning around and the ball was picked, the team dropped 4 balls and then Eli got a ball deflected that got returned to the house (I guess that is his fault). Eli played very poorly, but there is not ONE Giant on offense that played well.Ben holds the ball a little too long and takes more sacks than I like, but I think as of now he gets the slight edge.
 
Rivers is currently QB 15 in my big play league, and QB 16 in my standard (6pt passing TD) league.

Be interesting to see where he ends up.

:lmao:

 
tommyGunZ said:
Rivers is currently QB 15 in my big play league, and QB 16 in my standard (6pt passing TD) league.Be interesting to see where he ends up. :)
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I'm not so much concerned about his FF production this year as I am his NFL long term prospects. I still think he's unstartable in FF if you have other viable options due to his incredible inconsistency. But I'm worried he's not going to be the franchise QB long term that I and the Chargers were hoping for. LaDainian's not going to be around that much longer, M Turner will be gone next year - this offense could completely fall apart if this guy can't step up his game and become big time.
 
tommyGunZ said:
Rivers is currently QB 15 in my big play league, and QB 16 in my standard (6pt passing TD) league.Be interesting to see where he ends up. :confused:
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#15 in my league also after his last two good fantasy weeks. He was #22 previous to that.But all the guys he is just in front of have missed games.Garcia, Schaub, Young, Gerrard, Harrington, Huard, Bulger, Griese, Pennington, CPep, griese, etc.His ppg is among the worst (sans the Carrs :wall: of the world) Like Gr00vus I wouldnt start him.
 
Gr00vus said:
Gold Plated Nails said:
Accept for like a new coaching staff, to say that there is no excuse is wrong. Its his second year starting, he is due to have ups and downs, cmon Groovus :thumbup: no need to throw in the towel on our 20-7 QB quite yet.
Click to expand...
I'm not throwing in the towel yet, but the hour is getting late. He needs to stop acting like a petulant child in the face of adversity before I'll start feeling better about him. All the stats in the world against blown coverages won't make up for that.
Click to expand...
Dear Phil,Grow the #### up.

Sincerely,

Any hope you have of being a top level QB.

 
Gr00vus said:
Gr00vus said:
Gold Plated Nails said:
Accept for like a new coaching staff, to say that there is no excuse is wrong. Its his second year starting, he is due to have ups and downs, cmon Groovus :thumbup: no need to throw in the towel on our 20-7 QB quite yet.
Click to expand...
I'm not throwing in the towel yet, but the hour is getting late. He needs to stop acting like a petulant child in the face of adversity before I'll start feeling better about him. All the stats in the world against blown coverages won't make up for that.
Click to expand...
Dear Phil,Grow the #### up.

Sincerely,

Any hope you have of being a top level QB.
Click to expand...
Eli Manning is pretty mild mannered. Maybe you should become a Giants fan.
 
Mr. PadresLakers said:
Gr00vus said:
Gr00vus said:
Gold Plated Nails said:
Accept for like a new coaching staff, to say that there is no excuse is wrong. Its his second year starting, he is due to have ups and downs, cmon Groovus :pickle: no need to throw in the towel on our 20-7 QB quite yet.
Click to expand...
I'm not throwing in the towel yet, but the hour is getting late. He needs to stop acting like a petulant child in the face of adversity before I'll start feeling better about him. All the stats in the world against blown coverages won't make up for that.
Click to expand...
Dear Phil,Grow the #### up.

Sincerely,

Any hope you have of being a top level QB.
Click to expand...
Eli Manning is pretty mild mannered. Maybe you should become a Giants fan.
Click to expand...
:X You really are quite the :homer: .
 
Gr00vus said:
Mr. PadresLakers said:
Gr00vus said:
Gr00vus said:
Gold Plated Nails said:
Accept for like a new coaching staff, to say that there is no excuse is wrong. Its his second year starting, he is due to have ups and downs, cmon Groovus :goodposting: no need to throw in the towel on our 20-7 QB quite yet.
Click to expand...
I'm not throwing in the towel yet, but the hour is getting late. He needs to stop acting like a petulant child in the face of adversity before I'll start feeling better about him. All the stats in the world against blown coverages won't make up for that.
Click to expand...
Dear Phil,Grow the #### up.

Sincerely,

Any hope you have of being a top level QB.
Click to expand...
Eli Manning is pretty mild mannered. Maybe you should become a Giants fan.
Click to expand...
:lmao: You really are quite the :lmao: .
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You are crying about a meaningless 5 yard penalty.Hope this helps

 
Gr00vus said:
Gr00vus said:
Gold Plated Nails said:
Accept for like a new coaching staff, to say that there is no excuse is wrong. Its his second year starting, he is due to have ups and downs, cmon Groovus :lmao: no need to throw in the towel on our 20-7 QB quite yet.
Click to expand...
I'm not throwing in the towel yet, but the hour is getting late. He needs to stop acting like a petulant child in the face of adversity before I'll start feeling better about him. All the stats in the world against blown coverages won't make up for that.
Click to expand...
Dear Phil,Grow the #### up.

Sincerely,

Any hope you have of being a top level QB.
Click to expand...
You are any hope he has of being a top level QB? That's scary, especially with how little support you show him in only his second year of playing.
 
Mr. PadresLakers said:
You are crying about a meaningless 5 yard penalty.Hope this helps
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Nah, doesn't really help much. He's still acting like a child. You can get away with that against bad/depleted teams. Not so much against good ones. He's showing no signs of improvement. In fact he's starting to look like Rex Grossman to me. And you're starting to remind me of the Bears homers who were in denial as I argued with them all last year about how Rex would ultimately hold the team back.Keep the faith though.
 
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Gr00vus said:
Mr. PadresLakers said:
You are crying about a meaningless 5 yard penalty.

Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Nah, doesn't really help much. He's still acting like a child. You can get away with that against bad/depleted teams. Not so much against good ones. He's showing no signs of improvement. In fact he's starting to look like Rex Grossman to me. And you're starting to remind me of the Bears homers who were in denial as I argued with them all last year about how Rex would ultimately hold the team back.Keep the faith though.
Click to expand...
Actually the Chiefs have a very good defense 7th overall and 5th against the pass.http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

Feel free to get worked up over 5 yard penalties though, don't let facts get in the way of your good time.

 
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Mr. PadresLakers said:
Feel free to get worked up over 5 yard penalties though, don't let facts get in the way of your good time.
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Facts:10 for 21, 1td, 1int, 157 yards passing. Yet another temper tantrum.Good times.You've got an interesting perspective if you can honestly tell me you're happy with Rivers's play this season.
 
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Mr. PadresLakers said:
Gr00vus said:
Mr. PadresLakers said:
You are crying about a meaningless 5 yard penalty.

Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Nah, doesn't really help much. He's still acting like a child. You can get away with that against bad/depleted teams. Not so much against good ones. He's showing no signs of improvement. In fact he's starting to look like Rex Grossman to me. And you're starting to remind me of the Bears homers who were in denial as I argued with them all last year about how Rex would ultimately hold the team back.Keep the faith though.
Click to expand...
Actually the Chiefs have a very good defense 7th overall and 5th against the pass.http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

Feel free to get worked up over 5 yard penalties though, don't let facts get in the way of your good time.
Click to expand...
If you listened to Randy Cross during the broadcast, the Chiefs are the greatest team of all time.
 
Gr00vus said:
Mr. PadresLakers said:
Feel free to get worked up over 5 yard penalties though, don't let facts get in the way of your good time.
Click to expand...
Facts:10 for 21, 1td, 1int, 157 yards passing. Yet another temper tantrum.Good times.You've got an interesting perspective if you can honestly tell me you're happy with Rivers's play this season.
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Where did I say that? His statline was average at best. The quarterback is never going to put up big numbers when LT is getting 170+ on the ground. Was he terriible? No. Was he Rex Grossman-like? No. LT has also been known to become visibly frustrated when things don't go his way. Does that mean he doesn't have what it takes to become a good RB? :goodposting:I just think its comical that you rush to your computer to sign on and gripe about a completely meaningless delay penalty. Meanwhile the team just avenged its worst loss of the season and found the running game and pass rush that has been alluding them all season. If that makes me a homer then so be it.
 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
Mr. PadresLakers said:
Gr00vus said:
Mr. PadresLakers said:
You are crying about a meaningless 5 yard penalty.

Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Nah, doesn't really help much. He's still acting like a child. You can get away with that against bad/depleted teams. Not so much against good ones. He's showing no signs of improvement. In fact he's starting to look like Rex Grossman to me. And you're starting to remind me of the Bears homers who were in denial as I argued with them all last year about how Rex would ultimately hold the team back.Keep the faith though.
Click to expand...
Actually the Chiefs have a very good defense 7th overall and 5th against the pass.http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

Feel free to get worked up over 5 yard penalties though, don't let facts get in the way of your good time.
Click to expand...
If you listened to Randy Cross during the broadcast, the Chiefs are the greatest team of all time.
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:rolleyes: My favorite line was during halftime he mentioned it looked like the Chiefs were the division leaders based on well they were playing. A few minutes later they project the halftime stats on the screen and after noticing the Chargers led every category the line suddenly became how evenly matched the teams were.
 
Mr. PadresLakers said:
Meanwhile the team just avenged its worst loss of the season and found the running game and pass rush that has been alluding them all season. If that makes me a homer then so be it.
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See, this thread is about Phil Rivers - not how well the rest of the Chargers played (which they did, which I'm very happy about). I know that seems to be confusing for you, but the bottom line is this team isn't going anywhere special if/until Rivers gets his act together. Enough with the straw man already - I'm not complaining about a 5 yard penalty - I'm complaining about an obvious, serious inability to handle adversity on the part of Rivers that has been displayed almost every week this season. That can not continue if he is to be a championship quality QB and this a championship quality team.
 
Gr00vus said:
Mr. PadresLakers said:
Meanwhile the team just avenged its worst loss of the season and found the running game and pass rush that has been alluding them all season. If that makes me a homer then so be it.
Click to expand...
See, this thread is about Phil Rivers - not how well the rest of the Chargers played (which they did, which I'm very happy about). I know that seems to be confusing for you, but the bottom line is this team isn't going anywhere special if/until Rivers gets his act together. Enough with the straw man already - I'm not complaining about a 5 yard penalty - I'm complaining about an obvious, serious inability to handle adversity on the part of Rivers that has been displayed almost every week this season. That can not continue if he is to be a championship quality QB and this a championship quality team.
Click to expand...
Since you skipped over the first time I will go ahead and restate the question.What about LT? Does it bother you when he becomes visibly frustrated when things don't go his way? Do you think his expression of frustration can not continue if he wants to be championship quality RB on a championship quality team? Is it a sign of his serious inability to handle adversity?
 
I'm not too worried about Rivers' outbursts. There's another QB in this league who is prone to fits in the face of adversity, and he has turned out okay - Peyton Manning. Brett Favre was also very emotional at the beginning of his career. I really don't think we can make a correlation one way or another.

 
I thought he wasn't that bad. Sure he got pressured. But he also threw some great passes. He has worked on looking off Gates when he is triple covered, and takes the second option now....I consider that an improvement!

 
Mr. PadresLakers said:
What about LT? Does it bother you when he becomes visibly frustrated when things don't go his way? Do you think his expression of frustration can not continue if he wants to be championship quality RB on a championship quality team? Is it a sign of his serious inability to handle adversity?
Click to expand...
There's no comparison, so I didn't think it was worth addressing. If you can't see a discernible difference between their behaviors (let me know when LT draws a penalty for this), I'll be happy do not discuss this with you any further.
 
Gr00vus said:
Mr. PadresLakers said:
What about LT? Does it bother you when he becomes visibly frustrated when things don't go his way? Do you think his expression of frustration can not continue if he wants to be championship quality RB on a championship quality team? Is it a sign of his serious inability to handle adversity?
Click to expand...
There's no comparison, so I didn't think it was worth addressing. If you can't see a discernible difference between their behaviors (let me know when LT draws a penalty for this), I'll be happy do not discuss this with you any further.
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I thought it wasn't about a 5 yard penalty? Are you denying that he has shown visible frustrations in pretty much every loss this season (and some even some close wins) or is it just not important because he is LT?
 
Mr. PadresLakers said:
I thought it wasn't about a 5 yard penalty? Are you denying that he has shown visible frustrations in pretty much every loss this season (and some even some close wins) or is it just not important because he is LT?
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He's shown some frustration, but not to the extent or in the manner in which Phil does. It's not even close, I don't know why you keep bringing it up.
 
Gr00vus said:
Mr. PadresLakers said:
I thought it wasn't about a 5 yard penalty? Are you denying that he has shown visible frustrations in pretty much every loss this season (and some even some close wins) or is it just not important because he is LT?
Click to expand...
He's shown some frustration, but not to the extent or in the manner in which Phil does. It's not even close, I don't know why you keep bringing it up.
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Just wanted to see if you thought it was as unimportant as I find River's "outbursts" to be. Turns out you do. The funny thing is after each one Rivers seems to play better and pick up his game.
 
Gr00vus said:
I'm complaining about an obvious, serious inability to handle adversity on the part of Rivers that has been displayed almost every week this season
Click to expand...
Please elaborate on this. It seems that you are referring to his temperament/(im)maturity, as opposed to the quality of his play... if that is not the case, please clarify.Assuming that to be the case, please give examples from "almost every" other week this season. You have cited an example from yesterday's game, but there have been 11 others. Personally, I don't get to see a lot of Chargers games, since I'm on the east coast. In the ones I have seen, I have noticed one or two times this season where he became visibly upset. To me, what I have seen = :bag:He has played inconsistently and, many times, poorly. I don't see it as necessarily being correlated with his temperament, but I'm interested in the high number of examples you have cited. :lmao:
 
Rivers is making his supporters (and I am one of his strongest supporters) look pretty bad. I still think he can develop into a good QB but he's got to keep his head level and play consistently.

I don't care about the mechanics, it's all mental with this guy and maybe another year of Norv (who is a terrible coach but has a good track record with young QB's) will help him.

 
Lemmiwinks said:
Rivers is making his supporters (and I am one of his strongest supporters) look pretty bad. I still think he can develop into a good QB but he's got to keep his head level and play consistently. I don't care about the mechanics, it's all mental with this guy and maybe another year of Norv (who is a terrible coach but has a good track record with young QB's) will help him.
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He's had a worse season than I projected but it's also important to keep how bad he's been in perspective. He's the #18 ranked passer at the moment which isn't good BUT...#18 Rivers#17 Cutler#16 Brees#15 Palmer... he's in pretty good company. I don't read nearly as much criticism directed at Cutler/Brees/Palmer as I do Rivers. All three of those quarterbacks are also in underachieving situations with talent but it's looking more and more like Rivers will be the only one in the group that will be going to the playoffs.
 
BoltBacker said:
Lemmiwinks said:
Rivers is making his supporters (and I am one of his strongest supporters) look pretty bad. I still think he can develop into a good QB but he's got to keep his head level and play consistently. I don't care about the mechanics, it's all mental with this guy and maybe another year of Norv (who is a terrible coach but has a good track record with young QB's) will help him.
Click to expand...
He's had a worse season than I projected but it's also important to keep how bad he's been in perspective. He's the #18 ranked passer at the moment which isn't good BUT...#18 Rivers#17 Cutler#16 Brees#15 Palmer... he's in pretty good company. I don't read nearly as much criticism directed at Cutler/Brees/Palmer as I do Rivers. All three of those quarterbacks are also in underachieving situations with talent but it's looking more and more like Rivers will be the only one in the group that will be going to the playoffs.
Click to expand...
So he looks good because others around him look like he does? Not the best argument to make. Cutler and Brees do not have the talent around them that Rivers does. And Cincy has the most banged O-line in the NFL and even more banged up D. Rivers doesn't have the support issues around him the others have. So if we're going to put this into perspective, Rivers doesn't have the excuses other around him do. With that said, I'd cut Rivers some slack beacuse he's only in his 2nd year of starting. Mst QB's need 3 years or more to get situated in the NFL. I guess AJ felt Rivers didn't need that. He must of thought Rivers was capable of doing things most QB's cannot. Also, it's not Rivers fault that there have so many changes within the coaching ranks. Few teams could meet the expectations bestowed upon them with as many coaching changes as the Chargers have had. It's just not realistic to think they can overcome that much and not have set backs. But again, I guess AJ and Spanos felt they could. Otherwise, why make so many chamges at all youir leadership positions at QB, HC, OC, DC and expect everthing to be alright?
 
Family Matters said:
BoltBacker said:
Lemmiwinks said:
Rivers is making his supporters (and I am one of his strongest supporters) look pretty bad. I still think he can develop into a good QB but he's got to keep his head level and play consistently.

I don't care about the mechanics, it's all mental with this guy and maybe another year of Norv (who is a terrible coach but has a good track record with young QB's) will help him.
Click to expand...
He's had a worse season than I projected but it's also important to keep how bad he's been in perspective. He's the #18 ranked passer at the moment which isn't good BUT...#18 Rivers

#17 Cutler

#16 Brees

#15 Palmer

... he's in pretty good company. I don't read nearly as much criticism directed at Cutler/Brees/Palmer as I do Rivers. All three of those quarterbacks are also in underachieving situations with talent but it's looking more and more like Rivers will be the only one in the group that will be going to the playoffs.
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So he looks good because others around him look like he does?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's exactly what I said as pointed out in the bold text.
 
Just Win Baby said:
Gr00vus said:
I'm complaining about an obvious, serious inability to handle adversity on the part of Rivers that has been displayed almost every week this season
Click to expand...
Please elaborate on this. It seems that you are referring to his temperament/(im)maturity, as opposed to the quality of his play... if that is not the case, please clarify.Assuming that to be the case, please give examples from "almost every" other week this season. You have cited an example from yesterday's game, but there have been 11 others. Personally, I don't get to see a lot of Chargers games, since I'm on the east coast. In the ones I have seen, I have noticed one or two times this season where he became visibly upset. To me, what I have seen = :lmao:He has played inconsistently and, many times, poorly. I don't see it as necessarily being correlated with his temperament, but I'm interested in the high number of examples you have cited. :goodposting:
Click to expand...
A couple of weeks ago he turned around and was yelling at the fans to shut up as they booed the Charger offense of the field after a particularly egregious 3 and out. Yelling. Honestly I've never seen a QB do that before. The closest thing to it I can think of was Vick flipping off the crowd - Rivers actions weren't as bad as that, but still.There was the sideline meltdown in week 1 when the refs blew an offsides call when the Chargers were at the Bears 1 yard line which allowed the Bears to cause and recover a fumble. Screaming at the refs, literally red in the face, wildly gesticulating and screaming.Those were the most notable instances this year, but in other games there's been smaller tantrums when there's been "confusion" on routes, or too much pressure allowed by the line or play calls he didn't like - general outbursts as he walks to the sideline. There have been blow ups with LaDainian after LaDainian has called him out on some pretty idiotic decisions on the field (there were a few botched/unexpected passes to LaDainian that caused this). It's been consistent - you really need to be watching the games.
 
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Gr00vus said:
Just Win Baby said:
Gr00vus said:
I'm complaining about an obvious, serious inability to handle adversity on the part of Rivers that has been displayed almost every week this season
Click to expand...
Please elaborate on this. It seems that you are referring to his temperament/(im)maturity, as opposed to the quality of his play... if that is not the case, please clarify.Assuming that to be the case, please give examples from "almost every" other week this season. You have cited an example from yesterday's game, but there have been 11 others. Personally, I don't get to see a lot of Chargers games, since I'm on the east coast. In the ones I have seen, I have noticed one or two times this season where he became visibly upset. To me, what I have seen = :lmao:He has played inconsistently and, many times, poorly. I don't see it as necessarily being correlated with his temperament, but I'm interested in the high number of examples you have cited. :goodposting:
Click to expand...
A couple of weeks ago he turned around and was yelling at the fans to shut up as they booed the Charger offense of the field after a particularly egregious 3 and out. Yelling. Honestly I've never seen a QB do that before. The closest thing to it I can think of was Vick flipping off the crowd - Rivers actions weren't as bad as that, but still.There was the sideline meltdown in week 1 when the refs blew an offsides call when the Chargers were at the Bears 1 yard line which allowed the Bears to cause and recover a fumble. Screaming at the refs, literally red in the face, wildly gesticulating and screaming.Those were the most notable instances this year, but in other games there's been smaller tantrums when there's been "confusion" on routes, or too much pressure allowed by the line or play calls he didn't like - general outbursts as he walks to the sideline. There have been blow ups with LaDainian after LaDainian has called him out on some pretty idiotic decisions on the field (there were a few botched/unexpected passes to LaDainian that caused this). It's been consistent - you really need to be watching the games.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but some instances I've noticed Aaron Brooks like smiling after INT's and fumbles and such as well.
 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Gr00vus said:
Just Win Baby said:
Gr00vus said:
I'm complaining about an obvious, serious inability to handle adversity on the part of Rivers that has been displayed almost every week this season
Click to expand...
Please elaborate on this. It seems that you are referring to his temperament/(im)maturity, as opposed to the quality of his play... if that is not the case, please clarify.Assuming that to be the case, please give examples from "almost every" other week this season. You have cited an example from yesterday's game, but there have been 11 others. Personally, I don't get to see a lot of Chargers games, since I'm on the east coast. In the ones I have seen, I have noticed one or two times this season where he became visibly upset. To me, what I have seen = :shrug:He has played inconsistently and, many times, poorly. I don't see it as necessarily being correlated with his temperament, but I'm interested in the high number of examples you have cited. :lmao:
Click to expand...
A couple of weeks ago he turned around and was yelling at the fans to shut up as they booed the Charger offense of the field after a particularly egregious 3 and out. Yelling. Honestly I've never seen a QB do that before. The closest thing to it I can think of was Vick flipping off the crowd - Rivers actions weren't as bad as that, but still.There was the sideline meltdown in week 1 when the refs blew an offsides call when the Chargers were at the Bears 1 yard line which allowed the Bears to cause and recover a fumble. Screaming at the refs, literally red in the face, wildly gesticulating and screaming.Those were the most notable instances this year, but in other games there's been smaller tantrums when there's been "confusion" on routes, or too much pressure allowed by the line or play calls he didn't like - general outbursts as he walks to the sideline. There have been blow ups with LaDainian after LaDainian has called him out on some pretty idiotic decisions on the field (there were a few botched/unexpected passes to LaDainian that caused this). It's been consistent - you really need to be watching the games.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but some instances I've noticed Aaron Brooks like smiling after INT's and fumbles and such as well.
Click to expand...
:pickle: He does that all the time too. Not to an Aaron Brooks extent of yucking it up on the sidelines, but yeah he pulls the Alfred E. Neumann face after every #### up. I don't know the exact right way to react after such things - but that certainly isn't it. This guy needs to watch film of Joe Montana and take some notes.
 
Gr00vus said:
This guy needs to watch film of Joe Montana and take some notes.
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Groovus, as an i-friend I am going to suggest that you lighten up a little bit. This shtick is getting dangerously close to the thread about how Calvin Johnson is a bust because he isn't duplicating Randy Moss' production as a rookie.
 
Gr00vus said:
Just Win Baby said:
Gr00vus said:
I'm complaining about an obvious, serious inability to handle adversity on the part of Rivers that has been displayed almost every week this season
Click to expand...
Please elaborate on this. It seems that you are referring to his temperament/(im)maturity, as opposed to the quality of his play... if that is not the case, please clarify.Assuming that to be the case, please give examples from "almost every" other week this season. You have cited an example from yesterday's game, but there have been 11 others. Personally, I don't get to see a lot of Chargers games, since I'm on the east coast. In the ones I have seen, I have noticed one or two times this season where he became visibly upset. To me, what I have seen = :confused:He has played inconsistently and, many times, poorly. I don't see it as necessarily being correlated with his temperament, but I'm interested in the high number of examples you have cited. :wub:
Click to expand...
A couple of weeks ago he turned around and was yelling at the fans to shut up as they booed the Charger offense of the field after a particularly egregious 3 and out. Yelling. Honestly I've never seen a QB do that before. The closest thing to it I can think of was Vick flipping off the crowd - Rivers actions weren't as bad as that, but still.There was the sideline meltdown in week 1 when the refs blew an offsides call when the Chargers were at the Bears 1 yard line which allowed the Bears to cause and recover a fumble. Screaming at the refs, literally red in the face, wildly gesticulating and screaming.Those were the most notable instances this year, but in other games there's been smaller tantrums when there's been "confusion" on routes, or too much pressure allowed by the line or play calls he didn't like - general outbursts as he walks to the sideline. There have been blow ups with LaDainian after LaDainian has called him out on some pretty idiotic decisions on the field (there were a few botched/unexpected passes to LaDainian that caused this). It's been consistent - you really need to be watching the games.
Click to expand...
OK, so your "almost every week" really boils down to 3 examples. That's about what I thought. Look, he clearly needs to improve in controlling his emotions, I agree with you. But IMO you overstated the issue.
 
I think you guys are being too hard on the guy. Obviously he has issues with keeping his cool sometimes but overall he has played decent this year. A lot of young QB's have sophomore slumps and he's still young and learning. Heck, for Brees' first two years starting he didn't even look like an NFL QB. IMO, the alarms don't get raised unless he keeps doing these things (losing his cool, making mistakes under pressure) next year. I give him the benefit of the doubt since he came into a tough situation following a Pro Bowl QB on a team expected to contend for a SB. At least he's doing enough to win the division and get them a home game in the playoffs - which hopefully they finally win this year.

 
cstu said:
At least he's doing enough to win the division and get them a home game in the playoffs - which hopefully they finally win this year.
Click to expand...
That won't matter to his detractors. If SD wins a playoff game for the first time in more than a decade his critics will simply say "he should have won the SB with all the talent on that roster". Marty/Brees never won a playoff game while in SD and yet those that have been whining about their departure will continue to whine even if Turner/Rivers accomplish as much as Marty/Brees ever did in SD. Actually, just by making the playoffs they'll equal the best season put up by Marty/Brees in SD. Keep in mind I don't dislike either of those guys(fans of both), I just think people are getting way too enthusiastic when projecting how good this team would have been with just those two people as part of the organization. The o-line would still be playing spotty all season long. The S's and ILB's would still have the same problems. Rivers may be having a mediocre year which hurts SD, but the OL/S/ILB's have played well below mediocre imo. Those are the REAL problems on this team that need to be addressed.
 
BoltBacker said:
cstu said:
At least he's doing enough to win the division and get them a home game in the playoffs - which hopefully they finally win this year.
Click to expand...
That won't matter to his detractors. If SD wins a playoff game for the first time in more than a decade his critics will simply say "he should have won the SB with all the talent on that roster". Marty/Brees never won a playoff game while in SD and yet those that have been whining about their departure will continue to whine even if Turner/Rivers accomplish as much as Marty/Brees ever did in SD. Actually, just by making the playoffs they'll equal the best season put up by Marty/Brees in SD. Keep in mind I don't dislike either of those guys(fans of both), I just think people are getting way too enthusiastic when projecting how good this team would have been with just those two people as part of the organization. The o-line would still be playing spotty all season long. The S's and ILB's would still have the same problems. Rivers may be having a mediocre year which hurts SD, but the OL/S/ILB's have played well below mediocre imo. Those are the REAL problems on this team that need to be addressed.
Click to expand...
The bolded comment intself is worth a discussion. The point isn't that they are better because of those 2 people. They're better because of less change at both positions. First off, the change at QB set them back. Rivers needs 2-3 years to develop. That's normal for QB development in the NFL. Brees had just turned the corner and was a great asset for this team at their most critical position. Take away a vet at QB and add a first year starter and you are going to have set backs. The timing was bad because the development of the team demanded a season QB to lead them. Not a first year starter.Then after losing both coordinators, they fire the HC. So now you have no stability at QB, HC or either of the coordinator positions. Those changes is what is hurting them IMO. It was predicitable that they would not have aa good a year as they did last year due to all the change in itself. Just by having Brees they may have been able to manage their way through due the impact of the QB play. But that much change is asking for problems.

That is why I criticized AJ. I felt the decisions made to effect these changes were not in the best interest of winning games, but rather in his best interests. Funny thing is, those decisions may be what gets him fired. If they don't get things turned around he may find himself a victim of his own changes.

 
Family Matters said:
The bolded comment intself is worth a discussion. The point isn't that they are better because of those 2 people. They're better because of less change at both positions. First off, the change at QB set them back. Rivers needs 2-3 years to develop. That's normal for QB development in the NFL. Brees had just turned the corner and was a great asset for this team at their most critical position. Take away a vet at QB and add a first year starter and you are going to have set backs. The timing was bad because the development of the team demanded a season QB to lead them. Not a first year starter.
Click to expand...
There wasn't a setback. 14-2 down?
Family Matters said:
Then after losing both coordinators, they fire the HC. So now you have no stability at QB, HC or either of the coordinator positions. Those changes is what is hurting them IMO. It was predicitable that they would not have aa good a year as they did last year due to all the change in itself. Just by having Brees they may have been able to manage their way through due the impact of the QB play. But that much change is asking for problems.
Click to expand...
Brees isn't exactly lighting it up for the Saints this year. I really don't see how anyone can point to this season as absolute proof that Brees is better than Rivers.
Family Matters said:
That is why I criticized AJ. I felt the decisions made to effect these changes were not in the best interest of winning games, but rather in his best interests. Funny thing is, those decisions may be what gets him fired. If they don't get things turned around he may find himself a victim of his own changes.
Click to expand...
Why would any general manger's best interest not be to win games? Common sense would dictate that the more games a team wins the more secure his job would be.
 
Family Matters said:
That is why I criticized AJ. I felt the decisions made to effect these changes were not in the best interest of winning games, but rather in his best interests. Funny thing is, those decisions may be what gets him fired. If they don't get things turned around he may find himself a victim of his own changes.
Click to expand...
And this is why people take your opinions on the Chargers with a grain of salt. AJ's interests are directly tied to the interests of the Chargers winning games. To suggest otherwise is laughable.Sure the Bolts would love to have kept Drew Brees AND their coordinators and Marty. Unfortunately, keeping Drew Brees meant paying ~ $10M to an injured QB while you have a high first round pick on the bench who can replace Brees and allow you to spend the $10M elsewhere to improve the team.And AJ didn't decide to give the Dolphin and Cowboy head coaching gigs to his coordinators. To suggest that AJ decided to make those changes is ridiculous.
 
tommyGunZ said:
Family Matters said:
That is why I criticized AJ. I felt the decisions made to effect these changes were not in the best interest of winning games, but rather in his best interests. Funny thing is, those decisions may be what gets him fired. If they don't get things turned around he may find himself a victim of his own changes.
Click to expand...
And this is why people take your opinions on the Chargers with a grain of salt. AJ's interests are directly tied to the interests of the Chargers winning games. To suggest otherwise is laughable.Sure the Bolts would love to have kept Drew Brees AND their coordinators and Marty. Unfortunately, keeping Drew Brees meant paying ~ $10M to an injured QB while you have a high first round pick on the bench who can replace Brees and allow you to spend the $10M elsewhere to improve the team.And AJ didn't decide to give the Dolphin and Cowboy head coaching gigs to his coordinators. To suggest that AJ decided to make those changes is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
I know I've had my share of mis-reading a post but I didn't say or suggest he decided to get rid of the coordinators. I said he decided (or he and Spanos) to fire Marty and get rid of Brees. As for the money, not sure where the cap number is but they aren't they under? If so then your point is off a bit. Besides, teams pay injured players every year. They heal and play again. It happens all the time. And if they were that concerned about his health, then why offer him any money at all? They just wanted him if they could get him cheap. IOW-they weren't interested in paying him fair market money. AJ tried the saame thing with Gates. That was a costly mistake as well. Now there are reports that they are so cheap that they don't want to fire Norv because they don't want to pay 2 x-coaches. lolBTW-where did they spend all that money they saved on Brees?But if you think those decisions were in the best interest of the Chargers winning then I guess you're happy with the results. Because outside of the changes I mentioned, this is the same team.What I find interesting about this thread is that some want to pin the problems on Rivers. Some on the line. Some on the D. Isn't it interesting that it seems it's everyone's fault but AJ's. When they were winning with Marty and Brees, it was because of AJ. Now that they having troubled times, it's everyones fault but AJ's. Simply amazing the way some Charger fans see things.
 
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