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tommyboy

reason #30245 you should pay attention to Islamic radicalism

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But let's remember that Christianity is just as bad because we had the crusades hundreds of years ago. Oh and that one guy who blew up an abortion clinc.

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But let's remember that Christianity is just as bad because we had the crusades hundreds of years ago. Oh and that one guy who blew up an abortion clinc.

I love that anti-Christian argument from the left :)

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But let's remember that Christianity is just as bad because we had the crusades hundreds of years ago. Oh and that one guy who blew up an abortion clinc.

I love that anti-Christian argument from the left :)
::big picture::Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity. I'd like to think they'll have solved many of their problems 600 years from now.

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But let's remember that Christianity is just as bad because we had the crusades hundreds of years ago. Oh and that one guy who blew up an abortion clinc.

I love that anti-Christian argument from the left :lmao:
::big picture::Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity. I'd like to think they'll have solved many of their problems 600 years from now.
I can see it happening, they are progressing well. :lmao:

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But let's remember that Christianity is just as bad because we had the crusades hundreds of years ago. Oh and that one guy who blew up an abortion clinc.

I love that anti-Christian argument from the left :lmao:
::big picture::Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity. I'd like to think they'll have solved many of their problems 600 years from now.
I can see it happening, they are progressing well. :lmao:
Yes, continually moving toward a kinder, gentler radicalism.

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I bet the Christians had to put up with the same sarcastic jabs 500-1000 years ago.

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Welcome Footballguys Free For All Readers!Thanks tommyboy!

They're watching us!:lmao:

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That whole report is bogus!!! Everyone knows it's just a few radical muslims that cause all the problems and give Islam a bad name!!!!! :thumbup:

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.

Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals. Preaching violence against the country you are standing in is a clear threat to the security of the state, and the radicals preaching it should be prosecuted accordingly.

Radicals feel the world is against them and they have blow #### up and cut people up to fight back. Pieces of "journalism" like this one do more to perpetrate the idea that the world is against muslims than it does to raise awareness to the very real problem of increasing radicalism.

Political correctness in the media is not the problem. Streaming the most extreme Islamic radicals into millions of living rooms will do nothing but anger muslims and scare non-muslims. The political correctness of law makers and enforcers is the problem. Pressure needs to be put on them to treat extreme radicals as criminal threats to national security.

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I think the problem with Islam is that there has never been a Martin Luther type, a great reformer. One of the main things Luther did was translate the Bible into German so that the common man could read it. Prior to this, priests would intepret the Bible in the same way Islamic clerics intepret the Koran for the masses; if a priest was radical, the peasants would be radical too.

Although he didn't intend it, Luther's influence created a secular society, where the Church and state were no longer one and the same. The secular notions of the Enlightenment were only possible because of the Protestant Reformation.

The Islamic world has never had this. Even today, the typical Muslim living in the Middle East gets his religion given to him by a Mullah or cleric (depending on Sunni or Shiite.) And the State and Religion are very much intertwined, even if every country over there is not always a theocracy. So we're dealing with the equivalent of Christianity at the time of the Spanish Inquisition.

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you

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ahhh...yes. The politics of fear.

the sky is falling...the sky is falling.

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ahhh...yes. The politics of fear.the sky is falling...the sky is falling.

Thanks, Mr. Chamberlain.

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I think the problem with Islam is that there has never been a Martin Luther type, a great reformer. One of the main things Luther did was translate the Bible into German so that the common man could read it. Prior to this, priests would intepret the Bible in the same way Islamic clerics intepret the Koran for the masses; if a priest was radical, the peasants would be radical too. Although he didn't intend it, Luther's influence created a secular society, where the Church and state were no longer one and the same. The secular notions of the Enlightenment were only possible because of the Protestant Reformation.The Islamic world has never had this. Even today, the typical Muslim living in the Middle East gets his religion given to him by a Mullah or cleric (depending on Sunni or Shiite.) And the State and Religion are very much intertwined, even if every country over there is not always a theocracy. So we're dealing with the equivalent of Christianity at the time of the Spanish Inquisition.

There is no comparison of Christianity to Islam. Jesus Christ never led his people to war and oversaw the killing of thousands of people. He was against violence.

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Without looking it up, can't I find as many inflammatory statements in the Bible, especially the Old Testament?

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I think the problem with Islam is that there has never been a Martin Luther type, a great reformer. One of the main things Luther did was translate the Bible into German so that the common man could read it. Prior to this, priests would intepret the Bible in the same way Islamic clerics intepret the Koran for the masses; if a priest was radical, the peasants would be radical too. Although he didn't intend it, Luther's influence created a secular society, where the Church and state were no longer one and the same. The secular notions of the Enlightenment were only possible because of the Protestant Reformation.The Islamic world has never had this. Even today, the typical Muslim living in the Middle East gets his religion given to him by a Mullah or cleric (depending on Sunni or Shiite.) And the State and Religion are very much intertwined, even if every country over there is not always a theocracy. So we're dealing with the equivalent of Christianity at the time of the Spanish Inquisition.

:eek: I think another major contributing factor is the abolishment of the caliphate. The Caliph may not have often had the absolute spiritual authority of the Pope, but I'd be very interested to see what impact a central, international, religious figure would have on today's radical muslims.

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ahhh...yes. The politics of fear.the sky is falling...the sky is falling.

Thanks, Mr. Chamberlain.
[chuckle]

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Without looking it up, can't I find as many inflammatory statements in the Bible, especially the Old Testament?
look it up, i'd be interested to see it (not an old testament expert at all)

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Hmm... I'd be very interested to know where you studied. Any professor of religion I've come across never mentions (4:89):

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

without also mentioning (4:90):

If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them.

But seriously, I'm not going to debate passages in the Qu'ran with the internet. I don't know it through and through. The Qu'ran was "revealed" in a time of war and it talks of war and violence. But it doesn't preach radicalism as we see it today. Radicals misconstrue Qu'ranic text to suit their purposes. The radicals of today are the problem, not a 1400 year old book.

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Every _____ism will have its radicals. To think that that irradicated is naive and dumb. It can be controlled to a degree...(such as how I think the secular nature of the United States government intimidates and curbs undesirable radical Christians, radical ethnic movements, etc.) but for the most part...it will always be there. Why does it appear that radical Muslims are increasing in numbers?

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Every _____ism will have its radicals. To think that that irradicated is naive and dumb. It can be controlled to a degree...(such as how I think the secular nature of the United States government intimidates and curbs undesirable radical Christians, radical ethnic movements, etc.) but for the most part...it will always be there. Why does it appear that radical Muslims are increasing in numbers?

can you ask that again in a more specific way, I'm not understanding the intent of that question.

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Every _____ism will have its radicals. To think that that irradicated is naive and dumb. It can be controlled to a degree...(such as how I think the secular nature of the United States government intimidates and curbs undesirable radical Christians, radical ethnic movements, etc.) but for the most part...it will always be there. Why does it appear that radical Muslims are increasing in numbers?

can you ask that again in a more specific way, I'm not understanding the intent of that question.
Why is that violence involving radical Islam is on the rise. Why does it appear that more Muslims are embracing the radical viewpoint? Is it.....

The last great gasp before the fundamentalist Islamic movement dies?

Is it kind of like the shark reporting a few years back....incidents haven't changed in number but it is the in thing to report on?

Is it increased anger towards the United States?

Is it more Muslims are embracing their true religion and are becoming "good" Muslims?

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Without looking it up, can't I find as many inflammatory statements in the Bible, especially the Old Testament?
I know very little about the Koran, so I can't compare the two. But I do know that the statements that are usually dug out of the OT are more about Israel protecting itself from those who would seek it's destruction rather than teaching any kind of violent aggression. From what I do know about the Koran, it's methods seem a bit more aggressive than what we see taught in the Bible, especially if you include the teachings in the NT.

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But seriously, I'm not going to debate passages in the Qu'ran with the internet. I don't know it through and through. The Qu'ran was "revealed" in a time of war and it talks of war and violence. But it doesn't preach radicalism as we see it today. Radicals misconstrue Qu'ranic text to suit their purposes. The radicals of today are the problem, not a 1400 year old book.

Hasn't Islam pretty much always spread mostly by force and violent means?

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Without looking it up, can't I find as many inflammatory statements in the Bible, especially the Old Testament?
look it up, i'd be interested to see it (not an old testament expert at all)
And there are lots more:

13 "If, in any of the cities which the LORD, your God, gives you to dwell in, you hear it said 14 that certain scoundrels have sprung up among you and have led astray the inhabitants of their city to serve other gods whom you have not known, 15 you must inquire carefully into the matter and investigate it thoroughly. If you find that it is true and an established fact that this abomination has been committed in your midst, 16 you shall put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, dooming the city and all life that is in it, even its cattle, to the sword. 17 Having heaped up all its spoils in the middle of its square, you shall burn the city with all its spoils as a whole burnt offering to the LORD, your God. Let it be a heap of ruins forever, never to be rebuilt. 18 You shall not retain anything that is doomed, that the blazing wrath of the LORD may die down and he may show you mercy and in his mercy for you may multiply you as he promised your fathers on oath; 19 because you have heeded the voice of the LORD, your God, keeping all his commandments which I enjoin on you today, doing what is right in his sight.

Deuteronomy 13:13-19

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Hmm... I'd be very interested to know where you studied. Any professor of religion I've come across never mentions (4:89):

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

without also mentioning (4:90):

If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them.

But seriously, I'm not going to debate passages in the Qu'ran with the internet. I don't know it through and through. The Qu'ran was "revealed" in a time of war and it talks of war and violence. But it doesn't preach radicalism as we see it today. Radicals misconstrue Qu'ranic text to suit their purposes. The radicals of today are the problem, not a 1400 year old book.
:goodposting:

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Hmm... I'd be very interested to know where you studied. Any professor of religion I've come across never mentions (4:89):

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

without also mentioning (4:90):

If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them.

But seriously, I'm not going to debate passages in the Qu'ran with the internet. I don't know it through and through. The Qu'ran was "revealed" in a time of war and it talks of war and violence. But it doesn't preach radicalism as we see it today. Radicals misconstrue Qu'ranic text to suit their purposes. The radicals of today are the problem, not a 1400 year old book.
Pretty difficult to misconstrue phrases like "Kill disbelievers wherever you find them." The radicals seem to be pretty much doing things by the book.

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.

Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?

*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire

*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars

*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.

*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them

*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom

*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom

*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.

*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you

Hmm... I'd be very interested to know where you studied. Any professor of religion I've come across never mentions (4:89):

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

without also mentioning (4:90):

If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them.

But seriously, I'm not going to debate passages in the Qu'ran with the internet. I don't know it through and through. The Qu'ran was "revealed" in a time of war and it talks of war and violence. But it doesn't preach radicalism as we see it today. Radicals misconstrue Qu'ranic text to suit their purposes. The radicals of today are the problem, not a 1400 year old book.
Pretty difficult to misconstrue phrases like "Kill disbelievers wherever you find them." The radicals seem to be pretty much doing things by the book.
Actually it isn't hard. You've made a perfect case for my point, in fact. You've shortened

"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."

to

"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them."

Which is missing the rather significant qualification of "If they attack you, then kill them."

You've also conveniently left out the passage immediately following the one you mis-quoted (despite it being the post you're replying to)

"If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them."

See what I mean?

Also, the Arabic word 'Kafir' is translated here as 'disbeliever'. In truth, 'Kafir' means "one who covers the truth", as in one who tries to hide the hide the word of Allah. I don't believe in Islam, but that doesn't make me a 'Kafir' in the actual Arabic sense of the word. If I were to try to erase Islam by burning Qu'rans, though, I'd be a 'Kafir'.

My point though, is that the radicals do exactly what you've done. One could present the passages in question here to say "Kill those who seek to destory Islam when under attack, but God commands you to leave them be if they offer peace", or one could present it to say "Kill anyone who doesn't believe in Allah". The radicals make the book say what they want it to say.

As I mentioned before, I think a large part of it is because the radicals don't answer to anyone. The caliphate was abolished 80 years ago, which leaves every fanatic to interpret and pervert the Qu'ran as they see fit without anyone to tell them they're wrong.

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.

Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?

*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire

*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars

*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.

*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them

*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom

*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom

*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.

*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you

Hmm... I'd be very interested to know where you studied. Any professor of religion I've come across never mentions (4:89):

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

without also mentioning (4:90):

If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them.

But seriously, I'm not going to debate passages in the Qu'ran with the internet. I don't know it through and through. The Qu'ran was "revealed" in a time of war and it talks of war and violence. But it doesn't preach radicalism as we see it today. Radicals misconstrue Qu'ranic text to suit their purposes. The radicals of today are the problem, not a 1400 year old book.
Pretty difficult to misconstrue phrases like "Kill disbelievers wherever you find them." The radicals seem to be pretty much doing things by the book.
Actually it isn't hard. You've made a perfect case for my point, in fact. You've shortened

"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."

to

"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them."

Which is missing the rather significant qualification of "If they attack you, then kill them."

You've also conveniently left out the passage immediately following the one you mis-quoted (despite it being the post you're replying to)

"If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them."

See what I mean?

Also, the Arabic word 'Kafir' is translated here as 'disbeliever'. In truth, 'Kafir' means "one who covers the truth", as in one who tries to hide the hide the word of Allah. I don't believe in Islam, but that doesn't make me a 'Kafir' in the actual Arabic sense of the word. If I were to try to erase Islam by burning Qu'rans, though, I'd be a 'Kafir'.

My point though, is that the radicals do exactly what you've done. One could present the passages in question here to say "Kill those who seek to destory Islam when under attack, but God commands you to leave them be if they offer peace", or one could present it to say "Kill anyone who doesn't believe in Allah". The radicals make the book say what they want it to say.

As I mentioned before, I think a large part of it is because the radicals don't answer to anyone. The caliphate was abolished 80 years ago, which leaves every fanatic to interpret and pervert the Qu'ran as they see fit without anyone to tell them they're wrong.

From the site I copied the verses from:

Offering peace in Islam means surrendering. All 67 out of 68 wars of Muhammad were offensive. They are called qazwah (raid, ambush, sudden attack). That is how Muhammad waged his wars. He raided, massacred and looted civilians with no warning. The one defensive war, 'ditch' was not fought. That is why the Islamic terrorism 'jihad' will continue until the West "offers peace". This was made clear by Bin Laden.)

Can we move past the 1 line that I forgot now? Women's rights would be a good next topic.

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Every _____ism will have its radicals. To think that that irradicated is naive and dumb. It can be controlled to a degree...(such as how I think the secular nature of the United States government intimidates and curbs undesirable radical Christians, radical ethnic movements, etc.) but for the most part...it will always be there. Why does it appear that radical Muslims are increasing in numbers?

can you ask that again in a more specific way, I'm not understanding the intent of that question.
Why is that violence involving radical Islam is on the rise. Why does it appear that more Muslims are embracing the radical viewpoint? Is it.....

The last great gasp before the fundamentalist Islamic movement dies?

Is it kind of like the shark reporting a few years back....incidents haven't changed in number but it is the in thing to report on?

Is it increased anger towards the United States?

Is it more Muslims are embracing their true religion and are becoming "good" Muslims?

it is because Islamic radicalism has been growing steadily since WW2, starting with
, followed by the radicalization of Sayd Qtub, the rise of the "palestinian" resistance, the growth of groups like the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizbullah, the theocratic reign in Iran, and the population explosion of Muslims worldwide.

there are more Muslims than Catholics now for the first time in history.

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Without looking it up, can't I find as many inflammatory statements in the Bible, especially the Old Testament?
look it up, i'd be interested to see it (not an old testament expert at all)
And there are lots more:

13 "If, in any of the cities which the LORD, your God, gives you to dwell in, you hear it said 14 that certain scoundrels have sprung up among you and have led astray the inhabitants of their city to serve other gods whom you have not known, 15 you must inquire carefully into the matter and investigate it thoroughly. If you find that it is true and an established fact that this abomination has been committed in your midst, 16 you shall put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, dooming the city and all life that is in it, even its cattle, to the sword. 17 Having heaped up all its spoils in the middle of its square, you shall burn the city with all its spoils as a whole burnt offering to the LORD, your God. Let it be a heap of ruins forever, never to be rebuilt. 18 You shall not retain anything that is doomed, that the blazing wrath of the LORD may die down and he may show you mercy and in his mercy for you may multiply you as he promised your fathers on oath; 19 because you have heeded the voice of the LORD, your God, keeping all his commandments which I enjoin on you today, doing what is right in his sight.

Deuteronomy 13:13-19
So it's entirely okay to follow a false teaching, because hey, it never hurt anyone, right? If one was to go back and look at the history of the Israelites, they were notoriously bad at following directions, particularly when they involved commands from God about how to behave. God wanted to be first in their lives, so why should He not command them to remove idolaters from His people? I'm pretty sure that's in the Ten Commandments somewhere.ETA: It is, In Exodus 20:4-6 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.

Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?

*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire

*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars

*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.

*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them

*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom

*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom

*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.

*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you

Hmm... I'd be very interested to know where you studied. Any professor of religion I've come across never mentions (4:89):

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

without also mentioning (4:90):

If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them.

But seriously, I'm not going to debate passages in the Qu'ran with the internet. I don't know it through and through. The Qu'ran was "revealed" in a time of war and it talks of war and violence. But it doesn't preach radicalism as we see it today. Radicals misconstrue Qu'ranic text to suit their purposes. The radicals of today are the problem, not a 1400 year old book.
Pretty difficult to misconstrue phrases like "Kill disbelievers wherever you find them." The radicals seem to be pretty much doing things by the book.
Actually it isn't hard. You've made a perfect case for my point, in fact. You've shortened

"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."

to

"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them."

Which is missing the rather significant qualification of "If they attack you, then kill them."

You've also conveniently left out the passage immediately following the one you mis-quoted (despite it being the post you're replying to)

"If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them."

See what I mean?

Also, the Arabic word 'Kafir' is translated here as 'disbeliever'. In truth, 'Kafir' means "one who covers the truth", as in one who tries to hide the hide the word of Allah. I don't believe in Islam, but that doesn't make me a 'Kafir' in the actual Arabic sense of the word. If I were to try to erase Islam by burning Qu'rans, though, I'd be a 'Kafir'.

My point though, is that the radicals do exactly what you've done. One could present the passages in question here to say "Kill those who seek to destory Islam when under attack, but God commands you to leave them be if they offer peace", or one could present it to say "Kill anyone who doesn't believe in Allah". The radicals make the book say what they want it to say.

As I mentioned before, I think a large part of it is because the radicals don't answer to anyone. The caliphate was abolished 80 years ago, which leaves every fanatic to interpret and pervert the Qu'ran as they see fit without anyone to tell them they're wrong.

From the site I copied the verses from:

Offering peace in Islam means surrendering. All 67 out of 68 wars of Muhammad were offensive. They are called qazwah (raid, ambush, sudden attack). That is how Muhammad waged his wars. He raided, massacred and looted civilians with no warning. The one defensive war, 'ditch' was not fought. That is why the Islamic terrorism 'jihad' will continue until the West "offers peace". This was made clear by Bin Laden.)

Can we move past the 1 line that I forgot now? Women's rights would be a good next topic.
What does the West have to do to "offer peace"? Maybe this is just one big misunderstanding. Have we learned nothing from Three's Company?

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I think the problem with Islam is that there has never been a Martin Luther type, a great reformer. One of the main things Luther did was translate the Bible into German so that the common man could read it. Prior to this, priests would intepret the Bible in the same way Islamic clerics intepret the Koran for the masses; if a priest was radical, the peasants would be radical too. Although he didn't intend it, Luther's influence created a secular society, where the Church and state were no longer one and the same. The secular notions of the Enlightenment were only possible because of the Protestant Reformation.The Islamic world has never had this. Even today, the typical Muslim living in the Middle East gets his religion given to him by a Mullah or cleric (depending on Sunni or Shiite.) And the State and Religion are very much intertwined, even if every country over there is not always a theocracy. So we're dealing with the equivalent of Christianity at the time of the Spanish Inquisition.

There is no comparison of Christianity to Islam. Jesus Christ never led his people to war and oversaw the killing of thousands of people. He was against violence.
It's a shame that that lesson has been forgotten.

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Without looking it up, can't I find as many inflammatory statements in the Bible, especially the Old Testament?
look it up, i'd be interested to see it (not an old testament expert at all)
And there are lots more:

13 "If, in any of the cities which the LORD, your God, gives you to dwell in, you hear it said 14 that certain scoundrels have sprung up among you and have led astray the inhabitants of their city to serve other gods whom you have not known, 15 you must inquire carefully into the matter and investigate it thoroughly. If you find that it is true and an established fact that this abomination has been committed in your midst, 16 you shall put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, dooming the city and all life that is in it, even its cattle, to the sword. 17 Having heaped up all its spoils in the middle of its square, you shall burn the city with all its spoils as a whole burnt offering to the LORD, your God. Let it be a heap of ruins forever, never to be rebuilt. 18 You shall not retain anything that is doomed, that the blazing wrath of the LORD may die down and he may show you mercy and in his mercy for you may multiply you as he promised your fathers on oath; 19 because you have heeded the voice of the LORD, your God, keeping all his commandments which I enjoin on you today, doing what is right in his sight.

Deuteronomy 13:13-19
So it's entirely okay to follow a false teaching, because hey, it never hurt anyone, right? If one was to go back and look at the history of the Israelites, they were notoriously bad at following directions, particularly when they involved commands from God about how to behave. God wanted to be first in their lives, so why should He not command them to remove idolaters from His people? I'm pretty sure that's in the Ten Commandments somewhere.ETA: It is, In Exodus 20:4-6 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."
Thye seemed to have no trouble following his instructions to rape and kill though. Funny how that works.

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I think the problem with Islam is that there has never been a Martin Luther type, a great reformer. One of the main things Luther did was translate the Bible into German so that the common man could read it. Prior to this, priests would intepret the Bible in the same way Islamic clerics intepret the Koran for the masses; if a priest was radical, the peasants would be radical too. Although he didn't intend it, Luther's influence created a secular society, where the Church and state were no longer one and the same. The secular notions of the Enlightenment were only possible because of the Protestant Reformation.The Islamic world has never had this. Even today, the typical Muslim living in the Middle East gets his religion given to him by a Mullah or cleric (depending on Sunni or Shiite.) And the State and Religion are very much intertwined, even if every country over there is not always a theocracy. So we're dealing with the equivalent of Christianity at the time of the Spanish Inquisition.

There is no comparison of Christianity to Islam. Jesus Christ never led his people to war and oversaw the killing of thousands of people. He was against violence.
It's a shame that that lesson has been forgotten.
It's a shame how unlike Christ so many Christians are as well. Seems like lots of lessons have been forgotten to me.

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I think the problem with Islam is that there has never been a Martin Luther type, a great reformer. One of the main things Luther did was translate the Bible into German so that the common man could read it. Prior to this, priests would intepret the Bible in the same way Islamic clerics intepret the Koran for the masses; if a priest was radical, the peasants would be radical too.

Although he didn't intend it, Luther's influence created a secular society, where the Church and state were no longer one and the same. The secular notions of the Enlightenment were only possible because of the Protestant Reformation.

The Islamic world has never had this. Even today, the typical Muslim living in the Middle East gets his religion given to him by a Mullah or cleric (depending on Sunni or Shiite.) And the State and Religion are very much intertwined, even if every country over there is not always a theocracy. So we're dealing with the equivalent of Christianity at the time of the Spanish Inquisition.

There is no comparison of Christianity to Islam. Jesus Christ never led his people to war and oversaw the killing of thousands of people. He was against violence.
Chuck Norris says "not so fast - sort of".

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From the site I copied the verses from:

Well I'm certainly not going to sit here and try to argue with Google. It can arm even the simplest mind with a compelling argument for any point of view.Religion itself is never at fault for anything. Christianity is not responsible for the Inquisition, and Islam isn't responsible for 9/11. People are. They just use religion to justify the means.I've worked with and lived with several muslims. My head is still attached to my body, and to the best of my knowledge, none of them ever blew anything up. I'm sure you've heard it all before and I don't expect to change your mind about it, but I recommend you do some thinking for yourself before you go tossing hate around at every villain you see on CNN.

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Without looking it up, can't I find as many inflammatory statements in the Bible, especially the Old Testament?
look it up, i'd be interested to see it (not an old testament expert at all)
And there are lots more:

13 "If, in any of the cities which the LORD, your God, gives you to dwell in, you hear it said 14 that certain scoundrels have sprung up among you and have led astray the inhabitants of their city to serve other gods whom you have not known, 15 you must inquire carefully into the matter and investigate it thoroughly. If you find that it is true and an established fact that this abomination has been committed in your midst, 16 you shall put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, dooming the city and all life that is in it, even its cattle, to the sword. 17 Having heaped up all its spoils in the middle of its square, you shall burn the city with all its spoils as a whole burnt offering to the LORD, your God. Let it be a heap of ruins forever, never to be rebuilt. 18 You shall not retain anything that is doomed, that the blazing wrath of the LORD may die down and he may show you mercy and in his mercy for you may multiply you as he promised your fathers on oath; 19 because you have heeded the voice of the LORD, your God, keeping all his commandments which I enjoin on you today, doing what is right in his sight.

Deuteronomy 13:13-19
So it's entirely okay to follow a false teaching, because hey, it never hurt anyone, right? If one was to go back and look at the history of the Israelites, they were notoriously bad at following directions, particularly when they involved commands from God about how to behave. God wanted to be first in their lives, so why should He not command them to remove idolaters from His people? I'm pretty sure that's in the Ten Commandments somewhere.ETA: It is, In Exodus 20:4-6 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."
Thye seemed to have no trouble following his instructions to rape and kill though. Funny how that works.
:lmao: :lmao: Oh, that's rich. Please show me the passage in the Bible where it was told by God to the Israelites to rape and kill everyone. I'm sure you should have no trouble at all chasing that red herring.

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From the site I copied the verses from:

Well I'm certainly not going to sit here and try to argue with Google. It can arm even the simplest mind with a compelling argument for any point of view.Religion itself is never at fault for anything. Christianity is not responsible for the Inquisition, and Islam isn't responsible for 9/11. People are. They just use religion to justify the means.I've worked with and lived with several muslims. My head is still attached to my body, and to the best of my knowledge, none of them ever blew anything up. I'm sure you've heard it all before and I don't expect to change your mind about it, but I recommend you do some thinking for yourself before you go tossing hate around at every villain you see on CNN.
I see. Your point gets disproven and you insult me by saying Google can make a simpleton smarter. :no:You're right on one account. People are responsible for the atrocities of the past. Christian people are responsible for the Inquisition and Muslim people are responsible for 9/11. I don't understand the technicality you're trying to call into play. Religion makes people do some very horrible things. What is so difficult about admitting that?

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you
Without looking it up, can't I find as many inflammatory statements in the Bible, especially the Old Testament?
look it up, i'd be interested to see it (not an old testament expert at all)
I think it says if you spank the monkey you get turned into a pillar of salt, but I disproved that

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I think the problem with Islam is that there has never been a Martin Luther type, a great reformer. One of the main things Luther did was translate the Bible into German so that the common man could read it. Prior to this, priests would intepret the Bible in the same way Islamic clerics intepret the Koran for the masses; if a priest was radical, the peasants would be radical too. Although he didn't intend it, Luther's influence created a secular society, where the Church and state were no longer one and the same. The secular notions of the Enlightenment were only possible because of the Protestant Reformation.The Islamic world has never had this. Even today, the typical Muslim living in the Middle East gets his religion given to him by a Mullah or cleric (depending on Sunni or Shiite.) And the State and Religion are very much intertwined, even if every country over there is not always a theocracy. So we're dealing with the equivalent of Christianity at the time of the Spanish Inquisition.

Except that the Koran is in Arabic, so all who can read, can read it.

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.

Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?

*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire

*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars

*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.

*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them

*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom

*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom

*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.

*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you

Without looking it up, can't I find as many inflammatory statements in the Bible, especially the Old Testament?
look it up, i'd be interested to see it (not an old testament expert at all)
And there are lots more:

13 "If, in any of the cities which the LORD, your God, gives you to dwell in, you hear it said

14 that certain scoundrels have sprung up among you and have led astray the inhabitants of their city to serve other gods whom you have not known,

15 you must inquire carefully into the matter and investigate it thoroughly. If you find that it is true and an established fact that this abomination has been committed in your midst,

16 you shall put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, dooming the city and all life that is in it, even its cattle, to the sword.

17 Having heaped up all its spoils in the middle of its square, you shall burn the city with all its spoils as a whole burnt offering to the LORD, your God. Let it be a heap of ruins forever, never to be rebuilt.

18 You shall not retain anything that is doomed, that the blazing wrath of the LORD may die down and he may show you mercy and in his mercy for you may multiply you as he promised your fathers on oath;

19 because you have heeded the voice of the LORD, your God, keeping all his commandments which I enjoin on you today, doing what is right in his sight.

Deuteronomy 13:13-19
So it's entirely okay to follow a false teaching, because hey, it never hurt anyone, right? If one was to go back and look at the history of the Israelites, they were notoriously bad at following directions, particularly when they involved commands from God about how to behave. God wanted to be first in their lives, so why should He not command them to remove idolaters from His people? I'm pretty sure that's in the Ten Commandments somewhere.

ETA: It is, In Exodus 20:4-6 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."

Thye seemed to have no trouble following his instructions to rape and kill though. Funny how that works.
:rolleyes::mellow: Oh, that's rich. Please show me the passage in the Bible where it was told by God to the Israelites to rape and kill everyone. I'm sure you should have no trouble at all chasing that red herring.
No trouble at all, do you even read the bible?

7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man.

8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.

9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder.

10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps.

11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals,

12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. [a]

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp.

14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them.

16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people.

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,

18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Numbers 31:7-18

How many you need? I got plenty.

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Political correctness being the "fertilizer" for growth of Islamic radicalism is an excellent point. Radicals attempting to incite violence against the general population should be tried for treason.

Islam isn't the problem, radicalism is. Radicalism isn't taught by the Qur'an, it's taught by other radicals.

Quran is a good book eh?

*Disbelievers will be burned with fire.

*Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

*We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire

*Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars

*Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.

*Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them

*You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom

*If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom

*Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.

*Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you

In the time that this was written, Muhammad was fighting to keep his followers from being massacred by other Arabs (the tribes of Mecca). He didn't organize an army until it was necessary to defend his followers, who the Meccans saw as a threat because of their monotheistic religion. There were things he did that were tough to justify (attacking caravans) but he actually tried to avoid fighting when possible. He peacefully came back to Mecca for a pilgrimage and signed a treaty with the Meccans. When they later broke the treaty he and his people marched on Mecca and took it over without bloodshed. After that he fought a battle against a tribe when received information regarding their planned attack and marched toward another (that didn't happen) when he thought the Byzantines were going to attack. He died not long after that. Every single one of his battles were fought against other Arabs and only to keep from being killed by other tribes who outnumbered them.

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ahhh...yes. The politics of fear.the sky is falling...the sky is falling.

This isnt a global warming thread.

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