cstu
Footballguy
This I agree with.
I feel there's a much better chance of him being able to play due to this rule being retroactively applied than I did about him beating a clear cut failed test.
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WR Josh Gordon, KC (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
I feel there's a much better chance of him being able to play due to this rule being retroactively applied than I did about him beating a clear cut failed test.
GoodLloydHaveMercy
Footballguy
Agreed, as well. Based on the FACTS as we knew them, Gordon was getting either 0 or 16 pending his appeal, and 16 was, by far, the more likely.
Based on the POSSIBILITIES of a new policy, retroactively applied, & Gordon's failure being in the right time period, 0 games missed is possibly (assuming a decision is made on time for him to play Sunday).
Completely disagree. Your own bolded statement defines the potential grandfathering as a negotiation. The outcome of any negotiation is dependent on each sides' respective leverage and negotiating skills.
The outcome of the arbitration was binary by definition. The arbiter was only upholding or disagreeing with the commissioner's ruling. It was only a negotiation if either side wanted to bypass the arbitration process and neither did.
BoltNlava
Footballguy
Yes! My mole who works in baggage said he had personally checked in 3 large bags for Josh Gordon. That's the good news.Any word if Gordon is traveling with the team?
The bad news: Every dog in smelling distance in the terminal was hitting on said baggage.
All dogs are said to have "the munchies" and are unapproachable at this time.
Darryl Talley
Footballguy
Why do people give their opinion like they're the ones making the ruling?
It's like when people follow a trial and say, "I think he will be found guilty. There's too much evidence."
Uh, no. You are irrelevant in the process. You don't have access to the info they have. You're also powerless. Let the big dogs handle it.
Hopefully a decision comes soon because the armchair lawyers/judges are killing me.
It's like when people follow a trial and say, "I think he will be found guilty. There's too much evidence."
Uh, no. You are irrelevant in the process. You don't have access to the info they have. You're also powerless. Let the big dogs handle it.
Hopefully a decision comes soon because the armchair lawyers/judges are killing me.
Peak
Footballguy
Just dropped him after I heard about his new job at the car dealership, only to find out that now this new policy may happen prior to Sunday. If I knew then what I know now........
He clears waivers at midnight. Guess I'll be staying up to get him back on the roster. Hopefully nothing is decided/announced until Saturday.
He clears waivers at midnight. Guess I'll be staying up to get him back on the roster. Hopefully nothing is decided/announced until Saturday.
jbalicki10
Footballguy
I asked a couple of bookies what the lines are for Gordon coming back this year. 2 of them laughed not wanting to take a props bet like this. The other said 8-1 till Sunday Midnight deadline.
So if I bet now 10 bucks and he gets back in this year I win 80.
So if I bet now 10 bucks and he gets back in this year I win 80.
Hurl Bruce
Footballguy
I picked him up in two leagues just in case. I didn't drop anyone of real value for him, so no big deal. The reward was just too high for the relative risk.
I really think that the league is looking at these drug suspensions and comparing them to the violence ones and seeing a huge discrepancy.
I really think that the league is looking at these drug suspensions and comparing them to the violence ones and seeing a huge discrepancy.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
This stuff about a new drug deal sounds pretty legit. Seems hard to believe they could get it down in time for Sunday, but wouldn't be surprised by anything after that.
cstu
Footballguy
The strangest part of this story is what is the rush on the part of the NFLPA? One high profile player got suspended but there are probably hundreds of players taking HGH right now who would be impacted. The NFL has been trying to get HGH testing done for years but now it appears the players are going to roll over to save Josh Gordon.
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Adam Harstad
Moderator
Actually, it looks like they were fine with Gordon going down for a year, but they're rolling over to save Welker from 4 games.
Childress
Footballguy
That's my thinking, even as a Gordon owner I wonder how many of my currents players will be facing new suspensions. Josh Gordon looks crazy jacked since playing in the league, trading one suspension for another maybe
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
I bet more people are smoking pot than doing HGH, and I would say more than a lot of people are doing HGH.
The league saw an opening and the players realize weed is going to get them more than HGH. HGH may be a stiffer penalty, but maybe they feel they can beat that easier then weed tests.
I would contend the NFLPA would put a start date on the HGH testing as part of its negotiations, this seems to be smart for the league to have a few concessions now for the bigger picture in a few years when they can say their sport is clean.
The league does not care about our fantasy football teams, they care about their league and star players getting popped for a long suspension is not good for the league. Especially on weed which is socially accepted by many regardless of what laws are.
The league saw an opening and the players realize weed is going to get them more than HGH. HGH may be a stiffer penalty, but maybe they feel they can beat that easier then weed tests.
I would contend the NFLPA would put a start date on the HGH testing as part of its negotiations, this seems to be smart for the league to have a few concessions now for the bigger picture in a few years when they can say their sport is clean.
The league does not care about our fantasy football teams, they care about their league and star players getting popped for a long suspension is not good for the league. Especially on weed which is socially accepted by many regardless of what laws are.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
Happened across a tweet mentioning that IF they go with a new policy they MAY only have it apply to 2014 offenses. Gordon is a 2013 offense so MAY be left out even if this goes through.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
man o man[icon] said:
The ignorance displayed by the puffy chest Gordon backers is mind numbing. The odds that this helps Gordon isn't 0 percent but it is still significantly less than 1 percent. I guess all of the multiple assumptions that were previously proven wrong weren't enough for all of you?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Maybe there are hundreds of guys in stage one of the drug program too? Not publicized, so we wouldn't know.cstu said:
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Insoxicated
Is there a reason to come forward with this attitude?
What's the harm of discussing the merits of both sides of the situation and let owners decide for themselves what level of risk, if any, they are willing to absorb? You've apparently calculated this precisely at "significantly less than 1%" and deemed it unworthy of pursuit. Good on ya.
I guess I'm not sure why your decision mandates coming back into this thread with posts like the above?
rockaction
Footballguy
A cartoon for how the anti-Gordonites see the Gordonites.
http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/753290-perry-bible-fellowship
A cartoon for how the Gordonites see the anti-Gordonites:
http://www.lowbird.com/all/view/2011/04/pbf048-suicide-train
http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/753290-perry-bible-fellowship
A cartoon for how the Gordonites see the anti-Gordonites:
http://www.lowbird.com/all/view/2011/04/pbf048-suicide-train
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
Dude, I know you're just trying to be funny, but please know that you're not, and this is just really, really dumb.BoltNlava said:Yes! My mole who works in baggage said he had personally checked in 3 large bags for Josh Gordon. That's the good news.Bucky86 said:
The bad news: Every dog in smelling distance in the terminal was hitting on said baggage.
All dogs are said to have "the munchies" and are unapproachable at this time.
This is the dumbest thing I've read all day. Don't quit your day job because comedy isn't your thing.BoltNlava said:Yes! My mole who works in baggage said he had personally checked in 3 large bags for Josh Gordon. That's the good news.Bucky86 said:
The bad news: Every dog in smelling distance in the terminal was hitting on said baggage.
All dogs are said to have "the munchies" and are unapproachable at this time.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
No, I'm saying that's really what it looks like. I know that's not actually the case, but that's the optics of it. Josh Gordon got a year and nobody in the NFLPA said anything. Wes Welker got four games and within a couple of days we're hearing stories about how the NFLPA and the NFL are furiously negotiating to get Gordon and Welker's suspensions reduced.Bronco Billy said:
Adam Harstad
Moderator
That may be the case, but I think it goes a little deeper than thatHurl Bruce said:
Considering the OLYMPIC's, have their failed test set at 150ng's and the NFL has theirs set at 15ng's, I think they now understand how big of a fraud it is. Not to mention, Gordon urinated in 2 cups at the same time, one was barely a fail, one was a very easy pass. Sadly the second cup is used only to confirm what was in the failed cup and isn't able to be used to reverse the results of the first
In the end, 15ng's is lower than any other league, olympics etc etc etc by about 60-135ng's. It's a joke. When you have a guy barely going over the already very small threshold, something needs to be done. The other part of it is I do expect them to undo his suspension or at the very least reduce it if the new system comes into place because it's not right for guys to get a 3x higher threshold under the new rules than what you had when you failed
Keep in mind as well, one of Gordon's strikes in the NFL came from something that happened in college, which blows my mind, but it is what it is. His 2nd strike came on failing a test due to codeine. Adderall, codeine etc etc etc are being removed from the substance abuse and to personal conduct or something of the sort. So theortically, Gordon would get kicked back to stage 2 of the substance abuse program (failed test in college, failed test in the nfl -- for weed) because the codeine suspension gets put under personal conduct. So theoretically, Gordon would be put back into Stage 2 (which cost him only 2 games last year)
It's really not cut and dry, their are a lot of technicalities in this. If you say it's for sure he's not coming back, you need to really reconsider your stance and take the facts into account. Likewise, Goodell is always on a powertrip, so it wouldn't surprise me if the suspension stayed put
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GregR
Footballguy
I agree with this turn of events it's higher than 1%.
I think the NFL is likely using an agreement to lift suspensions as a bargaining chip. And if there is a deadline of before Sunday games, it becomes a slightly bigger chip or else those players end up filling their full suspensions. So I do think it's quite possible the suspension of Gordon and other players will be lifted if a new drug policy is agreed to. There won't be any "retroactive" portion for suspensions already served in full or in part, no repaying game checks already missed. But the NFL would exercise their ability to reinstate a player early if the new policy's standards would not have resulted in an infraction, so unserved suspensions would be vacated.
While a lot of players may use HGH , I can't see how an argument can be made even internally that the NFLPA should not be supporting removing HGH and PEDs. Their unauthorized use is criminal activity per our legal system. They carry health risks. The NFLPA has a responsibility to see that all of their members get a level field to compete for jobs on without having to act criminally or endure those health risks.
What I do think has likely happened is the NFLPA quietly told its membership, HGH testing is coming so if you're using you better get clean. And then the NFLPA likely have stalled things this long to give their members enough time they won't fail the blood tests if they quit when they were warned. The NFLPA knew they were going to give on the HGH issue in the end. If they can get a carrot like lifting some suspensions they will take it.
I think the NFL is likely using an agreement to lift suspensions as a bargaining chip. And if there is a deadline of before Sunday games, it becomes a slightly bigger chip or else those players end up filling their full suspensions. So I do think it's quite possible the suspension of Gordon and other players will be lifted if a new drug policy is agreed to. There won't be any "retroactive" portion for suspensions already served in full or in part, no repaying game checks already missed. But the NFL would exercise their ability to reinstate a player early if the new policy's standards would not have resulted in an infraction, so unserved suspensions would be vacated.
While a lot of players may use HGH , I can't see how an argument can be made even internally that the NFLPA should not be supporting removing HGH and PEDs. Their unauthorized use is criminal activity per our legal system. They carry health risks. The NFLPA has a responsibility to see that all of their members get a level field to compete for jobs on without having to act criminally or endure those health risks.
What I do think has likely happened is the NFLPA quietly told its membership, HGH testing is coming so if you're using you better get clean. And then the NFLPA likely have stalled things this long to give their members enough time they won't fail the blood tests if they quit when they were warned. The NFLPA knew they were going to give on the HGH issue in the end. If they can get a carrot like lifting some suspensions they will take it.
th3f00l
Footballguy
No, the media, that largely caters to the fantasy fan base, is throwing out these speculations. The negotiation is over the drug policy and so far i have not seen anything that definitely states they intend on addressing the current suspensions. The NFLPA and NFL negotiation is receiving more attention due to the high profile players that are being punished under the current rules. Establishing rules of conduct before the official season begins is in a way, important. So a conversation already on a short deadline is getting outside pressure from private interests, but these interests are not the topic of discussion.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
15 nanograms is three times higher than the NCAA limit.
http://www.drugfreesport.com/newsroom/insight.asp?VolID=68&TopicID=3
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Greg, I respect both you and Adam, but the ability to negotiate something this complicated by Sunday is close to slim and none...therefore < 1%. Add to that, you have the fact that Gordon broke the rules in 2013 and I just don't see this happening.
ETA - This is why I find the Gordon supporters chest thumping mind numbing...is there a chance? yes, but enough to thump a chest...absolutely not
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Why would what the NCAA (not professional) matter in my argument though? I used the olympics to kind of set the tone. Those are professional athletes playing at the highest level against other athletes who play at the highest level. NCAA is the minor leagues so to speak
Regardless, if adderal, codeine and other drugs of the sort are being moved to personal conduct, that means Gordon would only be in Stage 2 of the substance abuse policy, correct? Stage 2 = you play at some point. Stage 3 = you're suspended for a year.
I understand that Gordon also has a pending DUI case (In november) which will play into it. But the NFL can't make a ruling until the case is over, so that holds now ground for this season
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(HULK)
(Smash)
I don't understand why everyone is saying that this must be hashed out by this weekend? Why? So what if its Tuesday instead?
Whizzinator
Footballguy
How can you say that with any confidence? There's zero evidence I'm aware of that either is any more important (or even a factor) in driving the change. Just because Welker is more recent doesn't mean anything without knowing when the discussions began on the changes, which has not been reliably reported.Adam Harstad said:
GregR
Footballguy
If they were just beginning negotiations, say, a week ago, I'd agree it would never get done by Sunday.
But they've been negotiating the bulk of this stuff for 3 years now. It isn't like they just started and have only a few days.
Edit to add: It isn't like the point they are at in the negotiations is something we have nothing to go on and are stuck completely guessing at. Multiple news reports suggest they are close enough they believe it could be done by Sunday. I'm not all for taking news reports as 100% truth and have shot holes in several over the course of the Gordon thing when I saw they had issues. But until I see reason to doubt the reports, aren't they probably a decent gauge for where things stand?
I think it just comes down to things get done at deadlines. Sides can posture up until then hoping for concessions but there comes a point they have to reach an agreement.
In this case, a Sunday deadline has a very tangible effect. Players like Welker, Gordon, Orlando Scandrick etc start losing game checks if it doesn't get done by then. Sure they can do it Tuesday, but starting on Sunday the gain of the players diminishes if it isn't done. So the NFL could ratchet up the pressure by making that their deadline to have it done by or else let everything stand for the season.
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Adam Harstad
Moderator
1% is an awfully small percentage. I would be THRILLED to bet on Gordon's suspension getting overturned at those odds. Hell, I'd throw down $500 on it if I was getting 99:1 odds. In a heartbeat. Betting $500 to win $49,500? I'd be all over that.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Evidence isn't the point, I'm just saying how it looks.
Just like everyone said that the Rice suspension vs. the Gordon suspension made it *LOOK* like the league thought drugs were 8 times worse than domestic violence. In reality, there was no evidence that the league felt that way (and abundant evidence to the contrary, since the first offense for domestic violence got Rice two games while NFL players don't actually start missing any time until their third positive test for drugs). But the quick back-to-back nature of their offenses sure made for some bad optics.
Similarly, I'm sure the league was negotiating the deal long before Welker's suspension was announced, but the quick back-to-back timing of these news releases sure makes for some bad optics.
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cstu
Footballguy
Interesting because people have been screaming that the NFL's limit can met from unintentional secondhand smoke.
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fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
My opinion is that neither side really wants new drug testing but instead want the appearance that they do. The owners want to appear that they want HGH tested for liability reasons but don't really care. HGH allows the players to be healthy and put a better product on the field.
What do you know?Why wait another year to implement testing that was agreed to years ago? My guess is the players want to smoke pot more than they want to use HGH...
DaveGrumbles
Footballguy
And there are just as many impacted by the drug testing policy. Josh Gordon and Wes Welker aren't the only guys partying in the offseason...there's always a way around testing. The point is both sides will concede a little to make the media happy and their stakeholders happy. Many people here dismissed the power of the media because there was an idea that the media's narrative of "hey why does Ray Rice get 2 games for knocking a woman unconscious versus Josh Gordon gets suspended a year for a little weed" would hold no water with the Goodell. It's not a coincidence that within weeks both the violence and drug testing policies are suddenly being re-worked (not to mention being accompanied by a whiny apology from the commish) Big name players are dropping and domestic violence (and violence in general) is eating up headlines so both sides are motivated here.cstu said:
BoltNlava
Footballguy
Dude, I know you're just trying to be funny, but please know that you're not, and this is just really, really dumb.BoltNlava said:Yes! My mole who works in baggage said he had personally checked in 3 large bags for Josh Gordon. That's the good news.Bucky86 said:
The bad news: Every dog in smelling distance in the terminal was hitting on said baggage.
All dogs are said to have "the munchies" and are unapproachable at this time.
ok thanks...carry onThis is the dumbest thing I've read all day. Don't quit your day job because comedy isn't your thing.BoltNlava said:Yes! My mole who works in baggage said he had personally checked in 3 large bags for Josh Gordon. That's the good news.Bucky86 said:
The bad news: Every dog in smelling distance in the terminal was hitting on said baggage.
All dogs are said to have "the munchies" and are unapproachable at this time.
