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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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One other consideration that may not have been mentioned (and @Soulfly3, stop reading here):  Gordon is back. Gordon is rehabbed. 

Gordon is also one bad day from never playing football again. To say everything is rosy in Cleveland with Gordon is probably being generous.

As such; I have to believe there’s at least the possibility that the Browns pepper Gordon with passes to showcase him.

For a team like Cleveland with a lot of holes, Gordon could be a hell of a trade chip come NFL draft. Probably get a player and picks for him if he blows up the last few weeks. 

Again, this is total speculation & im not predicting this. But it’s a greater than 0% chance, which means there’s at least a possibility that Gordon has a strong debut on volume alone in PPR leagues. 

Ginn or Gordon...Ginn or Gordon....man. I’m kinda convincing myself it’s gordon. :confused:

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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27 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

4-61-0 on 15 targets

Welcome back Joshie

If he has 15 targets he’s going more than 4/61 

:lol: 

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18 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

Im fine w that projection. He's lowballing on his return. 

But in my PPR league, Dez has topped 13.4 only 5x this season. Which is abysmal, for him. 

7/13 times in 2016. Not all that different. He is what he is. A low end WR2.

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It looks like Yahoo has his projections up for those who were asking.
8.5/3.5/45.5/0.4

Listening to certain people talk about Gordon is like listening to a political pundits talk about their party, or color commentators talking about the team the cover, or Skip Bayless talking about the Cowboys, or that sham wow guy talking about sham wow...without the cool headset.

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#NeverForget that Yahoo projections do not equate a guarantee. Also, I was under the impression you know WRs, but now you dont because you are persuaded by Yahoo? #NeverForget that it is best for people to not listen to Yahoo projections.

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Can’t believe I picked up Gordon just sitting on the waiver wire two weeks ago. He might be the best WR in the game on any given Sunday. Not even rostered. If he stays clean and returns to form in 2017, what kind of dynasty RB or draft pick value would be have?

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1 hour ago, WheelsUp said:

It looks like Yahoo has his projections up for those who were asking.
8.5/3.5/45.5/0.4

Listening to certain people talk about Gordon is like listening to a political pundits talk about their party, or color commentators talking about the team the cover, or Skip Bayless talking about the Cowboys, or that sham wow guy talking about sham wow...without the cool headset.

So he's likely to score, but there is a 40% chance that it gets over-turned?

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2 hours ago, WheelsUp said:

It looks like Yahoo has his projections up for those who were asking.
8.5/3.5/45.5/0.4

Listening to certain people talk about Gordon is like listening to a political pundits talk about their party, or color commentators talking about the team the cover, or Skip Bayless talking about the Cowboys, or that sham wow guy talking about sham wow...without the cool headset.

3 catches for 45 yards and no touchdowns sounds like they think he's going to pick up right where he left off in the last three regular season games he played. 

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1 minute ago, JuniorNB said:

3 catches for 45 yards and no touchdowns sounds like they think he's going to pick up right where he left off in the last three regular season games he played. 

You mean the 3 games where he played with alcohol and/or pot in his system?

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15 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

You mean the 3 games where he played with alcohol and/or pot in his system?

He played his record breaking 2013 season under the influence also. Perhaps by 2014, the damage was done.

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3 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

He played his record breaking 2013 season under the influence also. Perhaps by 2014, the damage was done.

I don't recall, but perhaps he had Soufly3 throwing to him in 2014?

Just looked, he had Hoyer in 2013/2014...and then Tyler Thigpen? Connor Shaw? Rex Grossman, and Vince Young in 2014. Not saying Hoyer is a world beater, but he's better than all 4 of those others put together. Not to mention the consistency that comes with ONE guy.

As it turns out, he may as well of had Soulfly tossing it to him in 2014...same outcome most likely.

Edited by Scooby1974

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23 minutes ago, Scooby1974 said:

I don't recall, but perhaps he had Soufly3 throwing to him in 2014?

Just looked, he had Hoyer in 2013/2014...and then Tyler Thigpen? Connor Shaw? Rex Grossman, and Vince Young in 2014. Not saying Hoyer is a world beater, but he's better than all 4 of those others put together. Not to mention the consistency that comes with ONE guy.

As it turns out, he may as well of had Soulfly tossing it to him in 2014...same outcome most likely.

I believe it was a mix of Hoyer and Manziel throwing to him in 2014.

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3 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I believe it was a mix of Hoyer and Manziel throwing to him in 2014.

AND Manzel...so he had 5 different QB's (according to my google search) in 2014.

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59 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

3 catches for 45 yards and no touchdowns sounds like they think he's going to pick up right where he left off in the last three regular season games he played. 

So, about what we can expect from Dez.

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FTR I don't have Dez on my team and am not sure I would have the stones to start Gordon over Dez if I did.  

There are a ton of issues surrounding Gordon, well two major issues in regards to what happens on the field: 1) That's a long lay off for anyone, let alone when you are returning to a different offense than the last one you played in. You don't simply come in and have all the timing, reads and routes down pat. (But "Go deep!" still works) 2) Kizer. The rotating door at QB Gordon had in 2013 was pretty terrible but Kizer may be worse.  I have seen nothing from Kizer to suggest that, right now, he is better than Jason Campbell or Brian Hoyer. If Gordon owners are lucky he may be better than Brandon Weeden.

I have Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, Tyreek Hill, Larry Fitzgerald & Gordon on my roster.  Gordon is tentatively in my lineup for now but...yeah that's probably for ###s'n'giggles and may (will?) change before kickoff on Sunday.

Anyone care guess who I currently have on the bench in favor of Gordon?

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1 minute ago, Chaka said:

FTR I don't have Dez on my team and am not sure I would have the stones to start Gordon over Dez if I did.  

There are a ton of issues surrounding Gordon, well two major issues in regards to what happens on the field: 1) That's a long lay off for anyone, let alone when you are returning to a different offense than the last one you played in. You don't simply come in and have all the timing, reads and routes down pat. (But "Go deep!" still works) 2) Kizer. The rotating door at QB Gordon had in 2013 was pretty terrible but Kizer may be worse.  I have seen nothing from Kizer to suggest that, right now, he is better than Jason Campbell or Brian Hoyer. If Gordon owners are lucky he may be better than Brandon Weeden.

I have Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, Tyreek Hill, Larry Fitzgerald & Gordon on my roster.  Gordon is tentatively in my lineup for now but...yeah that's probably for ###s'n'giggles and may (will?) change before kickoff on Sunday.

Anyone care guess who I currently have on the bench in favor of Gordon?

Fitz? Due to poor qb situation maybe

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3 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Fitz? Due to poor qb situation maybe

Gabbert is arguably playing better than Alex Smith right now.

ETA: But, yes, it comes down to Fitz, Tyreek or Gordon.  And if Gabbert hadn't fallen in love with Ricky Seales-Jones in the red zone I wouldn't even be questioning starting Fitz.

Edited by Chaka
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The one thing about Kizer is he has a big arm, I do suspect they will take a few deep shots, they could hit on one of them. Please take the who do I start to the AC forum if you want people to make guesses about your team.

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1 hour ago, JuniorNB said:

He played his record breaking 2013 season under the influence also. Perhaps by 2014, the damage was done.

A sober for the first time ever on the field Josh Gordon should be a better player than a Josh Gordon impaired by alcohol and weed. Watch out league!

Edited by Gandalf
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13 minutes ago, Chaka said:

Gabbert is arguably playing better than Alex Smith right now.

ETA: But, yes, it comes down to Fitz, Tyreek or Gordon.  And if Gabbert hadn't fallen in love with Ricky Seales-Jones in the red zone I wouldn't even be questioning starting Fitz.

It’s a tough call for sure. You know Smith is going to take deep shots to Hill, because that’s pretty much all Hill is good for these days. That and the occasional run for a 4 yard loss. 

Gordon will likely be used all over the field. 

Fitz is Fitz - and Gabbert just doesn’t look for him in the RZ all that much. 

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2 hours ago, Gandalf said:

Can’t believe I picked up Gordon just sitting on the waiver wire two weeks ago. He might be the best WR in the game on any given Sunday. Not even rostered. If he stays clean and returns to form in 2017, what kind of dynasty RB or draft pick value would be have?

That is a tough question to answer. First, those are big ifs in staying clean and returns to form after an almost what is it 3 year layoff? Certainly his value will spike from today but if you are ever going to sell I think it's an almost given you would have to apply a risk of relapse price adjustment. Even if he came in and put up WR1 numbers the rest of the season I would have a hard time paying a top 10 rookie pick for him. I think his rookie pick value might fall in the late round 1 to a strong team willing to take a chance on him to something later and that again is if he came in and put up WR1 numbers from here to the end of the season. 

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1 minute ago, Warhogs said:

That is a tough question to answer. First, those are big ifs in staying clean and returns to form after an almost what is it 3 year layoff? Certainly his value will spike from today but if you are ever going to sell I think it's an almost given you would have to apply a risk of relapse price adjustment. Even if he came in and put up WR1 numbers the rest of the season I would have a hard time paying a top 10 rookie pick for him. I think his rookie pick value might fall in the late round 1 to a strong team willing to take a chance on him to something later and that again is if he came in and put up WR1 numbers from here to the end of the season. 

Also context matters. 

If he was able to pick up Gordon from the the waiver wire, then apparently his leaguemates don’t value Gordon much.

so commanding a high value in a deal seems unlikely at best.

Gordon would have to ball out for the last few weeks to drive his value up in his leaguemates minds. 

And even then it’s dicey due to the fact that he’s on double secret probation & 1 off-field incident or failed test could be career ending.

high rate of relapse for addicts. Something like 80%+

makes dealing for Gordon in dynasty a dicey proposition.  

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On 11/29/2017 at 7:55 AM, WheelsUp said:

Thats the point, proceed with caution...wait a week. I sure hope people are not buying the one biased person in here. It would be like listening to a defendants lawyer for all the facts of a case. You will only get one side and the side that benefits one player and all of it may be entirely untrue in the end.

One time to say this today. And this goes for everyone too. If you want to post here, make your point and stop the shots at the people who don't agree with you. 

How Gordon will perform is one of the biggest stories and topics in a while. We will talk about that here. Not muck up this thread with a few who'd rather have a slap fight other posters. Full stop. 

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I just might throw him out there as available in my dynasty leagues as we are close to the trade deadline and his value seems all over just to see what offers might come in. My bet is that today any offer I would be get would be outside the top 20 rookie picks and that some teams just wouldn't touch him at all.

 

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

It’s a tough call for sure. You know Smith is going to take deep shots to Hill, because that’s pretty much all Hill is good for these days. That and the occasional run for a 4 yard loss. 

Gordon will likely be used all over the field. 

Fitz is Fitz - and Gabbert just doesn’t look for him in the RZ all that much. 

Fitz is Fitz and even in a bad game he was still targeted eight times. He is the first, second and last option in the passing game for Arizona and in a PPR he should pretty much be an auto-start regardless of who the QB is...unless it's Kizer.

I keep thinking Kansas City's free fall is a mirage but dropping 5 of 6 doesn't feel like a mirage anymore. On the flip side, as @SameSongNDance frequently points out, Hill has bigger games on the road for whatever reason (he has yet to score a TD at home).  That's nice but it also has a certain miragieness about it.

I disagree about how Gordon will be used. I think he will likely be deployed similarly to Hill without the special teams or designed runs. I imagine Gordon will have a condensed route tree and maybe 7-8 targets.

I don't know where I would slot Dez in this debate (particularly on a short week). Probably below Fitz and...not sure in regards to Hill or Gordon.

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5 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

high rate of relapse for addicts. Something like 80%+

Maybe so but that's a broad brush that includes everything from heroin to gambling.  From homeless junkies thrown into county lock-up and forced to clean out their systems to people with resources and strong support groups. From Cris Carter to Justin Blackmon.

It's like BMI, it may apply in the broadest sense to populations but it means nothing if we're talking about Maruice Jones-Drew.

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4 minutes ago, Chaka said:

Maybe so but that's a broad brush that includes everything from heroin to gambling.  From homeless junkies thrown into county lock-up and forced to clean out their systems to people with resources and strong support groups. From Cris Carter to Justin Blackmon.

It's like BMI, it may apply in the broadest sense to populations but it means nothing if we're talking about Maruice Jones-Drew.

Agreed it's a complex dynamic. Few addicts have the support Gordon has. Few addicts have the financial incentives to stay sober as well. Although it's not unprecedented. On the flip side, few addicts are presented with the temptations and opportunities to get back off track as Gordon. It's the blessing / curse of money sometimes. 

Pulling for him. 

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Everything is in place for Gordon to have one of the greatest comeback stories ever told in sports.

It's up to him. 

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2 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

He played his record breaking 2013 season under the influence also. Perhaps by 2014, the damage was done.

Damage was done? You focus a ton on his last few games he played in 2014 but the damage that was already done did not stop him from 8/120 and 7/75 the first two games he returned that season. I guess you think all the damage that was done to him did not bother him weeks 12 and 13 of that season but all those years of hard living just finally caught him right at week 14?

 

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1 hour ago, Gandalf said:

A sober for the first time ever on the field Josh Gordon should be a better player than a Josh Gordon impaired by alcohol and weed. Watch out league!

I don't know man. I played my best basketball when I was in that sweet spot. I called it "Basketball High".  It's like really really high, but not too high. I was unguardable. 

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29 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Damage was done? You focus a ton on his last few games he played in 2014 but the damage that was already done did not stop him from 8/120 and 7/75 the first two games he returned that season. I guess you think all the damage that was done to him did not bother him weeks 12 and 13 of that season but all those years of hard living just finally caught him right at week 14?

 

I'm talking about all five games in 2014 compared to his 2013 output. 

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7 minutes ago, Loipz said:

Sorry to go off course here but everytime I see those Browns practice video's I find myself fascinated by the houses, with the easy views of practice.  I would think a lot of teams that don't practice indoors have some kind of vantage point that someone could seek out to see practice, not all but a lot, but is there another team in the NFL where people can sit just sit upstairs in their house with a nice view of practice? Has there ever been a concern that other teams could spy on their practice with ease? I'm far from a Browns fan but I think it would be awesome, like living in Wrigleyville during baseball season, to be able to just sit around my house watching an NFL team practice, but maybe it's just me.

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Never witnessed a perma-ip-ban in progress before.

:popcorn:

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OK, that was quick.

So tell me more about the Chargers CBs. They're pretty good, right?

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1 hour ago, Sebowski said:

I don't know man. I played my best basketball when I was in that sweet spot. I called it "Basketball High".  It's like really really high, but not too high. I was unguardable. 

Same

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WheelsUp didnt get banned, did he? Whatd he do? 

He clearly took issue w my Gordonism, but he seemed cool enough 

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