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WR Josh Gordon, KC (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
For a couple years it must have been fun to poke fun at Josh Gordon and talk about how he would never play again. I read your posts. You throw shade almost every time you comment in this thread. But it is coming close to the time for you to come over to the dark side. That was the closest I have seen to a "my mind could change" from you. So there is hope.
Here is reality. Gordon IS back in the league. Gordon IS a Patriot now, not a Brown. Gordon shares a locker with #######' Tom Brady. And Gordon is BB's most talented wide receiver (almost by default) There are others that are more skilled at the position, but there isn't anyone who doesn't recognize his athletic ability. And beyond that Gordon does run the full route tree, Gordon is hitting above career averages (on a small sample size) and (if you watched Josh Gordon when he was at Cleveland) splitting defenders in the endzone is something Gordon has always had an uncanny ability to do. Teams used to have to game plan against him doing exactly that.
In my opinion, IF he stays healthy, and isn't double covered, he is big enough to run through the tackles of most corners and fast enough to run away from most safeties. In Cleveland, he always drew the double and they threw it anyways. With BB putting together the match ups (instead of Hue), I expect the rest of the year will build him into the offense.
I hope he proves you wrong too. Not because I am a Patriot fan (because I am not). But because I am a fan of great football and this guy is truly capable of that.
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Oh the irony.
(I've never been a big DJax fan, but making things happen on end arounds was one of his strengths... I'm sure he was better at it than Gordon)
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I agree. DJax is great on end arounds. But totally different players.FF Ninja said:
DJax has been timed at a 4.35 40.
Gordon has been timed in the 4.3s.
Gordon is 6'3", 225 lbs.
DJax is 5'10" 175 Lbs.
They aren't the same at all.
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/11/10/josh-gordon-proving-hes-still-flash-with-blazing-40-time/
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/559554/desean-jackson
Oh I agree. But it was just funny the guy was talking about Gordon being good on end arounds and then implying DJax was a one trick pony.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Meh. I guess you haven't been in this thread as long as I have. I'm only in one dynasty league. I drafted Gordon as a rookie. Still have him. We only started allowing suspended players to be placed on our IR slot last year. I've held him anyway. I've always been in his corner. But I'm also a realist with him. And I like to provide balance to this thread. When there is too much Yin, I'll Yang. But this thread is full of Yang lately, so I Yin.Hairy Snowman said:
Sebowski
Footballguy
Only in the Josh Gordon thread do we take a team's rounded down timed 40 of their player over an official pro day or combine number
Gordon ran a 4.52. That's his number. That's how this works.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
He ran a 4.3- 40 last year overweight. And at Baylor. He was probably wasted on his pro day - no joke. When he came out, Baylor was a mad house. As you know.Only in the Josh Gordon thread do we take a team's rounded down timed 40 of their player over an official pro day or combine number
I'll take the most commonly timed 40.
Sorry you have had to wait. I hope you are richly rewarded. I understand not wanting to get ahead of yourself, but you kept him for a reason.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
In all honesty, I could see him catching around 30% if he still has the skills he had.
Sebowski
Footballguy
How often does a NFL team time one of their players in a 40? I don't think I've ever heard of it before. But the Browns did for Josh. The guy they've been coddling with kid gloves. And we believe their watch. Because they have no reason to fib or slightly mistime it. Plus they are probably real good at hand timing 40s. How hard can fractions of a second be to get right when you never ever do it ever for anyone else in your team ever? There's a reason the standard is the standard. I'm not going to knock Josh for his 4.52 40, but I'm also not going to cherry pick a fabled 4.3 40 to lavish praise on him either.
arctic_panzer_wolf
Footballguy
I'm a Browns fan....loved Gordon after that monster season 100 years ago, but then he quickly got suspended for 10 games the next year and joined a 6-4 team. They finished 7-9.
http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/11039/josh-gordons-2014-season-was-very-mysterious-very-disappointing
All I watched was him running the wrong routes and he did the same thing last year. In 13 games since that season he's now gone for 47-737-3....eh. Didn't care when they traded him. He could go off, but I doubt it.
http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/11039/josh-gordons-2014-season-was-very-mysterious-very-disappointing
All I watched was him running the wrong routes and he did the same thing last year. In 13 games since that season he's now gone for 47-737-3....eh. Didn't care when they traded him. He could go off, but I doubt it.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
You are forgetting that he timed consistently in the low 4.3s at Baylor. It isn't like he has never been timed at 4.3 before....
"Darin Gantt (Pro Football Talk) - '(...Gordon) has been clocked in the low 4.3-second range while at Baylor.'
https://www.catscratchreader.com/2012/7/2/3133687/wr-6-4-225-4-3-40-time-enters-supplemental-draft
There is one time that is 4.52. I am not cherry picking the other times. If you research Gordon, you should find that is the slowest 40 time on record for him. Unless you can find any other time that he ran that slow? I could not.
ETA The best part of all of this is that this drama should play out on the field. We will know this season. And then comes the hard part..
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arctic_panzer_wolf
Footballguy
I know you're a fellow Browns fan and love your optimism. I'm also on your Baker/Chubb wagon, but that dust was in 2013!talking bout gordon's 40 time when you've seen him leave prime talib 20yds in his dust
fbg
rockaction
Footballguy
I was worried about this, too. But they won't tolerate that in New England. He'll either be on the field because he's running the right routes, or he'll be on the bench. Either way, people who roster him will know his snap count and act accordingly.
But he could really off, and I'm not sure I doubt that.
Sebowski
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
LargeMouthBass
Footballguy
Even if he knows the playbook, Gordon won't be a fantasy stud in NE. That TD he scored was a fluke. Brady doesn't even look his way.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Whatever Gordon's 40 time is, it can be pretty irrelevant in the big picture.
The 40 is a track event. Much of your time is dependent on the start & the first 10 yards or so.
Very few DBs have his long speed. It's one of several reasons why Flash is one of the better deep threats in the league (maybe the best once he's acclimated to the NFL again).
The 40 is a track event. Much of your time is dependent on the start & the first 10 yards or so.
Very few DBs have his long speed. It's one of several reasons why Flash is one of the better deep threats in the league (maybe the best once he's acclimated to the NFL again).
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He doesn’t look his way because he has been there for two weeks and the two games he played were within four days of each other. Give the guy time to get acquainted with the greatest qb of all time and good things are going to happen.
Really, is it fair to expect Gordon to be here a matter of days and light up the league like it’s 2013? I’m telling you, you will want this guy on your team down the stretch in New England.
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Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I don't think they are running the same routes. I think Edelman is going to have more to say about Dorsett's game action than Gordon. Edelman and Dorsett are sharing a position.
I think Gordon replaces Hogan. Dorsett keeps Edelman healthy.
rockaction
Footballguy
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
This is the week to expect a Josh Gordon breakout game. Just saying.
Yes sir. I expect him to get more snaps, at the expense of Dorsett and Hogan. He will probably get a one or two deep shots.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I suspect his hamstring is just about 100% also. He will be facing a struggling secondary. If he was in his prime previously, he would eat up this defense.
But (something you never had to think much about with Gordon before), it is possible his team blows out KC. That might limit his productivity. But if the game somehow goes the other way? Watch out. This is a game in which the match ups appears very favorable.
Curious to see his practice participation this week first. I'd like to see the "limited" go away.
Probably going to be a week or two early this week, but I think if you need upside because your opponent is projected to win, Gordon certainly isn't a bad gamble. The over/under on this game is through the roof. Somebody is scoring points for NE.
I'm personally considering Gordon over A. Jeffery (who faces J. Jankins shadow coverage).
Probably going to be a week or two early this week, but I think if you need upside because your opponent is projected to win, Gordon certainly isn't a bad gamble. The over/under on this game is through the roof. Somebody is scoring points for NE.
I'm personally considering Gordon over A. Jeffery (who faces J. Jankins shadow coverage).
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I think we can be a little more realistic about the start over - although technically Tyler Lockett is doing better than AB this year so far. Fantasy football has a lot to do with matchups.
Who is Josh Gordon going to be looking at this week? Where? And what is the history between the two teams?
C'mon Bass, do you think Gordon is a sit THIS WEEK?
That is where we are at this week.
Chaka
Footballguy
No but with Golladay and Ingram on the bye and my other WR2/flex options are Drake and Henry (yes I have the complete set of the Roll Tide! backfield) Gordon sure looks like a nice WR2/Flex option.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I still think people's expectations for Gordon having a huge impact and being a consistent fantasy producer each week this year are way too high. Gronk, White, and Edelman are going to see a combined 30 targets or so a week. Everyone else is fighting for the leftovers. That includes Gordon, Hogan, Doresett, Michel, Patterson, Allen, Hollister, etc. There may be weeks where Gordon will be a match up nightmare for defenses and the game plan attacks that. In other weeks, he probably will play a limited role, see limited snaps. or be used to free up space for the other guys underneath or in the middle.
IMO, Gordon will be a hit or miss deep threat and TD dependent for fantasy. Given that NE has other guys to see a lot of targets and get a lot of shorter receptions, I don't think Gordon will have weeks with a lot of receptions. So he may have weeks with 2 catches for 20 yards. If like last week he hits on a deep pass, that might go up to 3 catches for 60 yards and a TD. I don't see him getting weeks with a ton of receptions, so I would call him a marginal fantasy WR3 the rest of the way that will be maddeningly inconsistent. If he gets that 40 yard TD, that will give him 11 points on one play. If he doesn't, then he most likely is not going to help you that week. With the TD catch, he could be a mid range WR2, but without it, he could easily be a WR5 that week.
I also think NE will keep him under wraps until they truly need him. So they may not use him much in the regular season and then he could explode in the playoffs when they unveil plays and uses for him that they didn't show earlier on.
IMO, Gordon will be a hit or miss deep threat and TD dependent for fantasy. Given that NE has other guys to see a lot of targets and get a lot of shorter receptions, I don't think Gordon will have weeks with a lot of receptions. So he may have weeks with 2 catches for 20 yards. If like last week he hits on a deep pass, that might go up to 3 catches for 60 yards and a TD. I don't see him getting weeks with a ton of receptions, so I would call him a marginal fantasy WR3 the rest of the way that will be maddeningly inconsistent. If he gets that 40 yard TD, that will give him 11 points on one play. If he doesn't, then he most likely is not going to help you that week. With the TD catch, he could be a mid range WR2, but without it, he could easily be a WR5 that week.
I also think NE will keep him under wraps until they truly need him. So they may not use him much in the regular season and then he could explode in the playoffs when they unveil plays and uses for him that they didn't show earlier on.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I like what you are selling here. But I still think people are underestimating the mismatch he creates against defensive backfields.
"Everyone else is fighting for the leftovers"
I disagree here. I think the pie grows. More attempts, more completions, more TOP, more points.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
I also disagree with the idea that Gordon won't take a few targets away from those guys when Tom knows he has a WR who can stretch the field. It's up to Gordon to prove that he can be that reliable deep threat, but if those 3 combined for 25 targets instead of 30, there are plenty left for Gordon to be the primary guy downfield who sees 5 to 7 targets per week or more.
He's not there yet until he earns a starting role. But when he's on the field, he's almost always going to be the biggest or 2nd biggest mismatch Brady has to throw to.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
It works the other way, too, though. Gordon may be the second biggest mismatch, but he will likely draw the opposition’s top corner. Are opponents going to be quaking over NE’s other receivers? Gordon will draw coverage away from the other guys.
I expect NE will start to run deeper routes and White will be left to beat a LB and will benefit.
from what I have seen, Gordon hasn’t run anything exotic and he’s mostly been playing with training wheels on. It stands to reason they will add to his plate, but whether that is after a month, half a season, in the playoffs, or next year is hard to guess.
The game against the Chiefs will be interesting. Brady has already come out and said they can’t turn the ball over and need to score consistently to win. Given the quirky interceptions Brady has gotten stuck with lately, I wonder if that makes it more likely or less likely that Brady would trust Gordon this week.
Good post. I'm with you 100% up until the bolded. NFL teams don't do that. It's too hard to win in this league to be holding things back.
BB of all people is not thinking about January in October.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Actually, there will be way less pass attempts in NE. Brady will only have to throw the ball 10 times a game if Gordon takes every one of those to the house.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Agreed. He will be covered by the opponent's #1 corner. But against virtually any corner in the NFL, Gordon is a mismatch 1 on 1. Will defenses roll a safety over him and leave Gronk to run down the middle of the field? Perhaps he wouldn't be as big of a mismatch as Gronk on a safety or a linebacker, but it'll be a challenge for defenses to double both of them.
Of course, it all depends on Gordon's ability to prove he's worth it. But if he does, there should be a more than big enough piece of the pie for him to be a strong fantasy asset. Plenty of targets to go around and there are a lot of ways things could break. Maybe if Brady has better options downfield, he won't HAVE to dump it off to White as often, or he won't HAVE to check it down to Edelman for 6 years when he can hit a 15 to 20 yarder downfield to Gordon. Who knows.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
I think his targets will be dictated by the defense. The Colts game is a perfect example. Colts were soooo depleted on defense, Colts were in a cover two most of the game in a bend don't break mentality. So, BB and Brady just dinked/dunked all day between the 20's with very few shots downfield. If NE see more man coverage, Gordon will get more looks. But if teams continue to drop safeties in fear of getting beat deep, I think targets will continue to funnel to White/Edelman at Gordon's expense. Might also change as he gets more acclimated to the playbook and audible calls so his snap count can increase.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
You are killing me smalls.Actually, there will be way less pass attempts in NE. Brady will only have to throw the ball 10 times a game if Gordon takes every one of those to the house.
