Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
no link...just heard it on local radio....saw nothing on rotoworld...
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NE Signs Visanthe Shiancoe..... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Stinkin Ref
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Sweet Love
IBL Representative
You've heard of going "4 wide", now you are going to hear "4 wider"? Shanck, Hernandez, Gronk and Ballard...If Ballard is healthy and they keep them all, and choose not to dress one of them, you could make the argument that NE sat a better TE than 25% of the league has as their starter...
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
maybe a "camp body"....word is Gronk may not be totally ready to go....another body to help with formations, etc....kind of like why they bring in other kickers for "camp legs" so that the primary guy doesn't have to do ALL the kicking...plus it keeps him out of somebody else's camp for awhile.....so even if they do release him down the road, it would take some time to get up to speed on somebody else's team....
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Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Lolz
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I can't tell the serious answers from the joke answers
Boston
Footballguy
The biggest reason is Fells is hurt, Gronk is coming back from an injury and Hernandez has had injuries in the past...TE is an important position in the Patriot offense and they are making sure they are very well stocked at this position...
Boston
Footballguy
Here's some insight into this signing (fro ESPN Boston):
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/
Closer look at Shiancoe contract
July, 25, 2012
Jul 25
10:25
AM ET
By Mike Reiss | ESPNBoston.com
Recommend2
Tweet25
Comments135
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Taking a closer look at the one-year contract signed by veteran tight end Visanthe Shiancoe, and analyzing what it might mean for the Patriots:
Term: 1 year
Base salary: $1.2 million
Guaranteed: $400,000 of base salary
Incentives: $800,000
Salary cap charge: $1.2 million
The incentives break down this way (for a possible total of $800,000):
$160,000 -- Plays 45 percent or more of the offensive plays
$160,000 -- Plays 50 percent or more of the offensive plays
$160,000 -- Plays 55 percent or more of the offensive plays
$160,000 -- Plays 60 percent or more of the offensive plays
$160,000 -- Plays 65 percent or more of the offensive plays
ANALYSIS: This deal is greater than I believed the Patriots would offer ($400,000 guaranteed is the key), and it reflects that Shiancoe is likely to be on the team's 53-man roster coming out of training camp. With veteran Daniel Fells opening training camp on the physically unable to perform list, the signing of Shiancoe to this type of deal makes it a stronger possibility that Fells could stay on PUP into the season, with the Patriots taking a more conservative approach with his rehab from a leg injury. Bill Belichick has annually utilized the PUP list as a way to build depth on the roster. Last year, four players were on PUP or the non-football injury list at the start of the regular season, and all were eventually activated and helped the club later in the year (Brandon Deaderick, Ron Brace, Kevin Faulk, Marcus Cannon). From Shiancoe's perspective, those playing-time incentives might be tough to reach as a third tight end behind Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez, but if either top tight end suffers an injury, the incentives could become more easily attained.
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/
Closer look at Shiancoe contract
July, 25, 2012
Jul 25
10:25
AM ET
By Mike Reiss | ESPNBoston.com
Recommend2
Tweet25
Comments135
Taking a closer look at the one-year contract signed by veteran tight end Visanthe Shiancoe, and analyzing what it might mean for the Patriots:
Term: 1 year
Base salary: $1.2 million
Guaranteed: $400,000 of base salary
Incentives: $800,000
Salary cap charge: $1.2 million
The incentives break down this way (for a possible total of $800,000):
$160,000 -- Plays 45 percent or more of the offensive plays
$160,000 -- Plays 50 percent or more of the offensive plays
$160,000 -- Plays 55 percent or more of the offensive plays
$160,000 -- Plays 60 percent or more of the offensive plays
$160,000 -- Plays 65 percent or more of the offensive plays
ANALYSIS: This deal is greater than I believed the Patriots would offer ($400,000 guaranteed is the key), and it reflects that Shiancoe is likely to be on the team's 53-man roster coming out of training camp. With veteran Daniel Fells opening training camp on the physically unable to perform list, the signing of Shiancoe to this type of deal makes it a stronger possibility that Fells could stay on PUP into the season, with the Patriots taking a more conservative approach with his rehab from a leg injury. Bill Belichick has annually utilized the PUP list as a way to build depth on the roster. Last year, four players were on PUP or the non-football injury list at the start of the regular season, and all were eventually activated and helped the club later in the year (Brandon Deaderick, Ron Brace, Kevin Faulk, Marcus Cannon). From Shiancoe's perspective, those playing-time incentives might be tough to reach as a third tight end behind Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez, but if either top tight end suffers an injury, the incentives could become more easily attained.
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Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
didn't know the specifics of the contract...thought they might have just be bringing him in for a look and a body for camp....looks like it might be more
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don't think they'll need to release him if they have the cap room. Teams generally keep three TEs on the roster and with Gronk and Hernandez still on rookie contracts (as second and third round picks noless), it's not like they have that much money tied up in the position.
Sweet Love
IBL Representative
I guess the thought I had about the signing was not that Schiancoe could/would not do well in the offense, but more so, (1) he is not young anymore and (2) you would think they would want a developmental prospect behind Gronk and Hernandez. I see Fells as a blocker now, and who knows how things will play out with Ballard. In my eyes, it is like backing up Aaron Rodgers with Byron Leftwich and Mark Brunnell...the second vet is kind of overkill (even if the start is young...in both this example with the NE TEs).
To play out a couple of scenarios, lets say Gronk gets injured in camp and is out for a while and Ballard starts on the PUP too (which I am guessing is a given at this point). You do have a capable plug-in in Schiancoe, but I am assuming he will count more towards the cap than a younger FA. I will admit, I have no clue how the cap is affected by guys who are on the PUP (does the cap accelerate once they are activated, or does the money against the cap the entire time?). Also, they may end up losing Hernandez when his contract is up, and if they have Schiancoe in and have to make a decision to release Ballard, then they have lost out on developing a player to play opposite of Gronk, as Schiancoe will likely be done (or too old) to do anything at that point...just a few thoughts.
To play out a couple of scenarios, lets say Gronk gets injured in camp and is out for a while and Ballard starts on the PUP too (which I am guessing is a given at this point). You do have a capable plug-in in Schiancoe, but I am assuming he will count more towards the cap than a younger FA. I will admit, I have no clue how the cap is affected by guys who are on the PUP (does the cap accelerate once they are activated, or does the money against the cap the entire time?). Also, they may end up losing Hernandez when his contract is up, and if they have Schiancoe in and have to make a decision to release Ballard, then they have lost out on developing a player to play opposite of Gronk, as Schiancoe will likely be done (or too old) to do anything at that point...just a few thoughts.
Boston
Footballguy
Kind of confused by this...Gronk and Hernandez are both very young so why do you need another young TE...the Pats are very close to winning a championship so it would make sense they would have a veteran in this unit (whether it's Fells or Shiancoe)to go with the youngsters...I don't think they are overly concerned right now with developing a backup TE for 2012...they would be more concerned with having a veteran who can step right in in 2012 should Gronk or Hernandez (who both have had injury issues in the past) go down...
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Sweet Love
IBL Representative
Mostly focuses around Hernandez possibly leaving, but also, I am always obsessed with the cap (maybe to a fault). Everytime I see a signing now, I am almost less concerned with who it is an how they fit in, versus the cap number and what they may be giving up somewhere else. I realize it could be just a training camp body too. While NE likes to do this with vets, you have to wonder, did they not sign someone else a month or so ago when they had Addai on the roster (for example) and now that person is gone?
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dickey moe
Fingerpicker
FINALLY, the piece of the TE puzzle New England has been missing all along.
Shane Falco
Footballguy
I don't get why he would sign with NE (to try and get a cheap ring as a 3rd stringer) when he could go to Philly and still get a chance to get a ring and get playing time? Do that many guys really just try to hang around and don't want to get on the field?
Boston
Footballguy
One other aspect of this is Fells is currently coming back from an injury and there is speculation that the Shiancoe signing means he maybe banged up more than they had thought he would be at this point...playing detective (which is usually fruitless with the Pats) that could make sense since I doubt Shiancoe would sign here merely to be training camp fodder...
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
I think some folks are too focused on fantasy football sometimes. Hernandez is much more frequently used as a WR and does not line up or block as a TE all that often. When you look at it that way, Shiancoe slots in as a back up to Gronk as a decent receiving TE off the line option. Had they had a someone else to turn to in the Super Bowl with Gronk hampered, they might have been able to run more plays that Gronk had success with in the SB.
Itchy Amos
Footballguy
I came in here to post the same thing. I was watching the local Patriots coverage and they mentioned that Hernandez was split out approximately 70% of the time last year. The move to bring in Shiancoe allows Hernandez to be used as a wide receiver almost all of the time. Being that Hernandez is a walking mismatch - it wouldnt surprise me if he became Brady's #1 option at the expense of Welker.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Exept that Hernandez has had bouts of the dropsies . . . usually on very accurate throws.
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Itchy Amos
Footballguy
While that's true, I remember hearing the phrase "another uncharacteristic drop by Welker" uttered by the play by play announcer several times last year. With that said, Welkers catch rate actually improved from 69% in 2010 to 71% in 2011 (according to football outsiders). Hernandez had a catch rate of 70% in both years. 70% is a really good percentage (and I know that it doesnt exactly reflect drops). Considering that Welker operates mostly in the same space as Hernandez, I'd say that they're pretty comparable. Hernandez's is still very young and his role increased dramatically in year 2. You can see his effect on Welker by looking at weeks 3 & 4 last year. Hernandez missed both games and Welker had his best two games of the season, averaging 12.5 receptions, 187 receiving yards & 1.5 TDs per game. In the other 14 games that he played with Hernandez, his averages were 6.9 rec, 85 yds & 0.4 TDs per game. Hernandez & Welker proved that they can co-exist on a high level. But when you consider that Hernandez's role is still expanding and you look at the physical abuse that Welker has endured over the past few years, it wouldnt surprise me to see their receptions totals flip-flop this year resulting in Hernandez with 115 receptions vs 95 for Welker at years end.
bagger
Footballguy
NE will be the first team in history running a jumbo package with 5 TEs but spreading them 5 wide.this is awesome shtick.
