I know. I assumed you were laughing about his reply on financial planners. I was kind of covering why they are important to people and why people rely on their judgement. I don't hold you in such low regard to think you were laughing at my parents.Nobody is laughing at your parents, dude.Laugh all you want. My parents reality is they were both working and trying to raise 3 kids. They did what people do, they get a "professional" to help out. I don't think he really screwed them I think it's just the way things go sometimes. The universe doesn't give a tinkers damn about your plans or what book you read. And as someone mentioned the closer you get to the end of the plan the more it is like timing the market. "Oh should I stay in this one more year or should I get into something safe? I haven't made my magical number yet". Etc.Ignorant, stereotypical comment.That is the point of this piece. Financial planners are not on your side. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't save money, it means you shouldn't trust the financial industry to do anything but screw you over.
I love all the people here who are so sure in their plans. My parents were. I hope it works out for everyone better than it did them. My money is on it not going that way though for an awful lot of them.
Did they panic and pull their money out at the low point? If they just rode it out and kept plodding away they'd be more than whole right now.Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.
When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.
i've read the story of your parents before in another thread.Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.
When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.
this.Did they panic and pull their money out at the low point? If they just rode it out and kept plodding away they'd be more than whole right now.Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.
When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.
nothing will cost you more in life other than a jet or a mistress.I want to go buy a boat.
This happened to my grandparents as well. Saved and saved and saved, worked their butts off all of their lives. Financial planner sold them on some "exciting products to enhance their upcoming retirement" instead of putting them into low risk target funds/bonds/what have you. I would bet the house they were swindled into products the adviser was getting huge commissions on selling for his firm, with little regard for my grandparents' trust in the adviser that he was doing right by them.Sure but see my parents didn't make a 100K. They worked their asses off and some "professional" was telling them they'd have to be very,very cautious and spend no money just to make sure the adviser would have a chance to retire comfortably. And where did it get them? Nowhere really but a life of always getting ready for down the road when the only thing down the road for them was more of the same. And they were hardly alone.Just like everything else in life, there's a fine balance between the two. Both extremes are being depicted here to make points. The answer lies somewhere in between.Bingo.Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.
When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.
Now I am not saying you shouldn't save. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to prepare. I am saying that maybe the occasional toy or fancy trip isn't that bad because the reality is you could do everything right and still end up with a lousy situation.
tons of scams right now going to with the elderly because they can't get their 5% in their CD's and treasuries anymore.This happened to my grandparents as well. Saved and saved and saved, worked their butts off all of their lives. Financial planner sold them on some "exciting products to enhance their upcoming retirement" instead of putting them into low risk target funds/bonds/what have you. I would bet the house they were swindled into products the adviser was getting huge commissions on selling for his firm, with little regard for my grandparents' trust in the adviser that he was doing right by them.Sure but see my parents didn't make a 100K. They worked their asses off and some "professional" was telling them they'd have to be very,very cautious and spend no money just to make sure the adviser would have a chance to retire comfortably. And where did it get them? Nowhere really but a life of always getting ready for down the road when the only thing down the road for them was more of the same. And they were hardly alone.Just like everything else in life, there's a fine balance between the two. Both extremes are being depicted here to make points. The answer lies somewhere in between.Bingo.Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.
When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.
Now I am not saying you shouldn't save. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to prepare. I am saying that maybe the occasional toy or fancy trip isn't that bad because the reality is you could do everything right and still end up with a lousy situation.
Truly sickening.
Good to know.I dislike people who make a living collecting fees for moving money around more than anybody, even lawyers.
And married guy. You f'n hypocrite.nothing will cost you more in life other than a jet or a mistress. remember that if it flies, floats, or fornicates, you're better off renting. (proud boat owner here)I want to go buy a boat.
No they didn't pull out after the first time. If they had before the second time they might have been better off.this.Did they panic and pull their money out at the low point? If they just rode it out and kept plodding away they'd be more than whole right now.Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.
When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.
i would like to hear more of the story.. i mean it seems like a classic combination of bad decisions: Too much risk at too high of an age and selling low.. . but there's always more to every story
They can't generate management fee revenue on something they can't sell you, so of course that wouldn't be a suggestion they're going to bring up to you if you sit down with them.My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36
might as well get a pilot's license tooAnd married guy. You f'n hypocrite.nothing will cost you more in life other than a jet or a mistress. remember that if it flies, floats, or fornicates, you're better off renting. (proud boat owner here)I want to go buy a boat.
Other income sources like real estate is a great answer to this problem.My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36
If you're paying them for advice, why wouldn't they give you good advice?They can't generate management fee revenue on something they can't sell you, so of course that wouldn't be a suggestion they're going to bring up to you if you sit down with them. Investment advisers don't advise people as a goodwill gesture. It costs money, and the fees come from the buyer of the fund selections somehow/someway.My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36
People with money also don't pop off about candy prices at drug stores.Most Americans retire just about broke. The same 10% that make all the money typically have it best thru retirement. Exceptions along the way of course.
Not really. I don't use any retirement advisors though. Why wouldn't they want their clients to make smart decisions. Diversifying a bit into real estate is good for the client, even if they don't collect $ on it.Other income sources like real estate is a great answer to this problem. I hope you are being sarcastic with the bolded.My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36
Because most advisors do not have an obligation to work in the best interests of their clients. They are also financially incented to drive people to products that are more profitable for tthe advisors/their firm.Not really. I don't use any retirement advisors though. Why wouldn't they want their clients to make smart decisions. Diversifying a bit into real estate is good for the client, even if they don't collect $ on it.Other income sources like real estate is a great answer to this problem. I hope you are being sarcastic with the bolded.My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36
thanks for sharing.If we are going to site worst case scenarios, then we should allow equal time. My parents retired a few years ago as well. They raised a family of 5 and I know there were times when I questioned how they were (not) spending money. They never bought a new car as long as I lived with them. (still have only bought 1 new car ever). They took no major trips, other than the long weekend at an amusement park with the kids. Now, my dad is the true life McGyver, he could fix just about anything we owned. So, we got full use out of everything in our house. My parents are now looking for ways to spend/reinvest their money. They have more than their lifestyle could ever need. My parents used two different investors over the past 25 years. One was a friend at the local bank where my Mom worked. The other was an adviser that my Grandfather uses. (My Grandfather just turned 96, and has been in assisted living for the past 8 years. He still has more money than he will need for the rest of his life. He spent his entire life as a union carpenter. My Grandmother never worked.. They saved and got smart investment advice. On the flip side, my in-laws have spent a good portion of their life spending as much as they made every month. They do have 2 rental homes, (but also two mortgages) They have a condo (also mortgaged) in Branson and a time share in Florida. They both had very good jobs. In the matter of 5 years, my father in law got a DUI that cost him his license and his job. My mother in law had a stroke that forced her to retire 5 years early. They are now struggling to get by. They refuses to make the smart decision to sell some of the "extras" so that they can live stress free the rest of their life.
The same reason why you have to haggle on a car price. Car dealers don't care about the price that's right for your budget. They want to maximize profit for the dealership/their sales commission, and give you the asset (car) you already want at the same time. You reach a point where both sides are satisfied, you get a car and they get money.If you're paying them for advice, why wouldn't they give you good advice?They can't generate management fee revenue on something they can't sell you, so of course that wouldn't be a suggestion they're going to bring up to you if you sit down with them. Investment advisers don't advise people as a goodwill gesture. It costs money, and the fees come from the buyer of the fund selections somehow/someway.My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36
Bingo.. they touched on this in the program.Because most advisors do not have an obligation to work in the best interests of their clients. They are also financially incented to drive people to products that are more profitable for tthe advisors/their firm.Not really. I don't use any retirement advisors though. Why wouldn't they want their clients to make smart decisions. Diversifying a bit into real estate is good for the client, even if they don't collect $ on it.Other income sources like real estate is a great answer to this problem. I hope you are being sarcastic with the bolded.My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36
It's actually pretty funny to hear my parents talk about finances during their marriage. Early on, my Dad established that he was a poor money manager. My Mom took over and put him on a weekly allowance. Of course, he bought stuff (cars, motorcycles, etc) to fix and sell for more $$. (so, he found ways to increase his allowance) But, my Dad agrees to this day, that they are better off because he didn't make many financial decisions.thanks for sharing.If we are going to site worst case scenarios, then we should allow equal time. My parents retired a few years ago as well. They raised a family of 5 and I know there were times when I questioned how they were (not) spending money. They never bought a new car as long as I lived with them. (still have only bought 1 new car ever). They took no major trips, other than the long weekend at an amusement park with the kids. Now, my dad is the true life McGyver, he could fix just about anything we owned. So, we got full use out of everything in our house. My parents are now looking for ways to spend/reinvest their money. They have more than their lifestyle could ever need. My parents used two different investors over the past 25 years. One was a friend at the local bank where my Mom worked. The other was an adviser that my Grandfather uses. (My Grandfather just turned 96, and has been in assisted living for the past 8 years. He still has more money than he will need for the rest of his life. He spent his entire life as a union carpenter. My Grandmother never worked.. They saved and got smart investment advice. On the flip side, my in-laws have spent a good portion of their life spending as much as they made every month. They do have 2 rental homes, (but also two mortgages) They have a condo (also mortgaged) in Branson and a time share in Florida. They both had very good jobs. In the matter of 5 years, my father in law got a DUI that cost him his license and his job. My mother in law had a stroke that forced her to retire 5 years early. They are now struggling to get by. They refuses to make the smart decision to sell some of the "extras" so that they can live stress free the rest of their life.
there's nothing wrong with not buying a new car ever..
Did your parents WANT to take major trips and didn't due to money? Or were they not really into such a thing?
As for your in-laws.. that's the more common story... spent everything they had... then can't even give it up when they have to... is your wife the same way.. is she a spender since that's what she grew up with?
Very true!People with money also don't pop off about candy prices at drug stores.Most Americans retire just about broke. The same 10% that make all the money typically have it best thru retirement. Exceptions along the way of course.
I agree. The more I think about retirement, the more I think about income replacement via real estate rentals could be a good idea if done right. Obviously the devil is in the details but I would feel more secure having a real asset doing some of the work for me.Other income sources like real estate is a great answer to this problem. I hope you are being sarcastic with the bolded.My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36
sorry bro. Not sure what i wrote that was life draining, but keep your chin up and living the good life. #yoloDentist isn't wrong but man dude you drain my lifeforce.
I find it life draining you still think you have to work until age 62. Set your sights earlier man.sorry bro. Not sure what i wrote that was life draining, but keep your chin up and living the good life. #yoloDentist isn't wrong but man dude you drain my lifeforce.
That's the absolute ceiling, my friend.I find it life draining you still think you have to work until age 62. Set your sights earlier man.sorry bro. Not sure what i wrote that was life draining, but keep your chin up and living the good life. #yoloDentist isn't wrong but man dude you drain my lifeforce.
Ah, I see. When you get to that age in my industry, you're either moving up or about to get ####canned.That's the absolute ceiling, my friend.I find it life draining you still think you have to work until age 62. Set your sights earlier man.sorry bro. Not sure what i wrote that was life draining, but keep your chin up and living the good life. #yoloDentist isn't wrong but man dude you drain my lifeforce.
it would be sweet if it were 55.
i will have put 32 years into filling teeth by the time i'm 55... that's a pretty full career.
Here's the rub though.. with dentistry almost everyone wants a dentist who's like 40-55.. experienced, but still in his prime.
everyone i talk to says things just get so much easier once you hit that age.. you're experienced as heck, you've got the gray hair necessary to get really solid treatment acceptance rates.. and by then you've generally developed a pretty stable patient base of people that you like and who like you (most of the people you don't get along with have gravitated elsewhere) that it becomes smoother, easier... more fun even.
So maybe i'm sitting there totally peaking at 55 and it's just too good to walk!
Or maybe Obamacare will infiltrate the industry and i'll wish i could retire at 45. who knows!
People with money also don't pop off about candy prices at drug stores.Most Americans retire just about broke. The same 10% that make all the money typically have it best thru retirement. Exceptions along the way of course.
I'd love to see you win Powerball just to see if you'd remain fixated on saving for retirement.That's the absolute ceiling, my friend.I find it life draining you still think you have to work until age 62. Set your sights earlier man.sorry bro. Not sure what i wrote that was life draining, but keep your chin up and living the good life. #yoloDentist isn't wrong but man dude you drain my lifeforce.
it would be sweet if it were 55.
i will have put 32 years into filling teeth by the time i'm 55... that's a pretty full career.
Here's the rub though.. with dentistry almost everyone wants a dentist who's like 40-55.. experienced, but still in his prime.
everyone i talk to says things just get so much easier once you hit that age.. you're experienced as heck, you've got the gray hair necessary to get really solid treatment acceptance rates.. and by then you've generally developed a pretty stable patient base of people that you like and who like you (most of the people you don't get along with have gravitated elsewhere) that it becomes smoother, easier... more fun even.
So maybe i'm sitting there totally peaking at 55 and it's just too good to walk!
Or maybe Obamacare will infiltrate the industry and i'll wish i could retire at 45. who knows!
thanks, i never knew you cared so much!I'd love to see you win Powerball just to see if you'd remain fixated on saving for retirement.
As an aside, I don't get the -EV argument against playing the lottery. Especially for someone like you, who is financially grounded. The functional utility of, say, an $18 million jackpot is similar enough to a $200 million jackpot to make it worth it for you. That is, you're probably smart enough to make even half-after-taxes-from-$18m last the rest of your life without any worries, and have a pretty good quality of life at that. It's not like $200m prize opens so many more doors that it's not worth trying to win anything less.thanks, i never knew you cared so much!I'd love to see you win Powerball just to see if you'd remain fixated on saving for retirement.
I don't really play though until it's +EV which is generally .. what over 200mil?
no question the 18 million would be plentyAs an aside, I don't get the -EV argument against playing the lottery. Especially for someone like you, who is financially grounded. The functional utility of, say, an $18 million jackpot is similar enough to a $200 million jackpot to make it worth it for you. That is, you're probably smart enough to make even half-after-taxes-from-$18m last the rest of your life without any worries, and have a pretty good quality of life at that. It's not like $200m prize opens so many more doors that it's not worth trying to win anything less.thanks, i never knew you cared so much!I'd love to see you win Powerball just to see if you'd remain fixated on saving for retirement.
I don't really play though until it's +EV which is generally .. what over 200mil?
Huh? Won't even sniff at retirement putting away 4% over 30 years with a 4% match? Yeah, you won't be pushing a Benz when you're 75 but retirement is very doable at that level.I was going over my wife's retirement plan. She works at a school with average income of 60k. With the min required to match 4%+4% match an 8% savings rate for 30 years won't even sniff enough money to retire on.
Then you have 50% of people that contribute 0 into any plan at all.
You want to talk about a financial crisis? This is it. You will have people that have made 100k-200k at the poverty level 10 years into retirement.
Simplistic comment. I happened to be born in Southern California. This is where my family is. This is where my wife's family is. All of her sisters are here, and the families are very tight. Could I take my 6 figure income and save money by moving to Fargo? Sure. And what's wrong with a desirable location? You get one shot at life. We take one big family vacation every year. Not cheap, and I have 3 kids. Wouldn't change a thing. Amazing life experiences and memories, and we are closer than any family I know in part because of it. I am paying for all 3 of my kids undergrad degrees, with 2 at UCSB now. Dave Ramsey would probably have a heart attack on both fronts. I'm fine with it. I like live music, so I'll spend on concerts, sporting events, etc.Those people are choosing to do that though. They are sacrificing greater financial flexibility to purchase the amenity of a more desirable location.they are likely earning a higher income too.Dangerous statement, without knowing the COL for their area. 100K in TN <> 100K in NYC.This. There's no excuse for someone with a six-figure income to be insecure in retirement other than personal irresponsibility.That is their own damn fault.I was going over my wife's retirement plan. She works at a school with average income of 60k. With the min required to match 4%+4% match an 8% savings rate for 30 years won't even sniff enough money to retire on. Then you have 50% of people that contribute 0 into any plan at all. You want to talk about a financial crisis? This is it. You will have people that have made 100k-200k at the poverty level 10 years into retirement.