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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (6 Viewers)

Random thoughts:

I generally enjoyed the entire Epic story from start to finish.  I thought it was a good story to tell, and lots of interesting characters along the way.  I found it was believable within the construct of the world.

I think most would agree that the TV show suffered when the source material dried up.  As many have said, the showrunners were good at adapting, less good at creating original content.  I used to blame GRRM for this - but in reality, I think he built a world so immense that it paralyzed him - it was too grand and detailed, and even GRRM could not see his way through it all.

For the final couple of seasons, it felt like the show was trying to land a space shuttle on an aircraft carrier - and given what they had to work with, I think the managed to pull it off.  My guess is that if GRRM had finished the books, there were still 4 seasons worth of material left for the final 2 seasons.

If I had to quibble - it would be that I wanted more background on a few details - Night King in particular - why now?  What was the goal?  Kill all men?  Kill Bran?  Was there a connection to the Starks specifically?  The books would have been better able to explore the breakdown that Daenerys went through as she obsessed with anyone that stood in her way.  There were certainly some TV-only moments that would only be created in TV-world (where audiences respond to characters/actors) - such as Lady Mormont killing the giant, or Bronn showing up at the end of the series.

I did find it ironic that the Stark kids who survived, got the ending they audience thought they deserved - given that in the early part of the book, the Stark's were getting slaughtered, literally and figuratively.  Arya has always been my favorite character, but I always struggled to see how she fit in a post-GOT world - I think heading west of Westeros was the perfect ending for her, and, in theory, the beginning of a new adventure.  Yet, despite the "happy" endings for the Starks, unless I am mistaken, the Stark name will die out - with no male heirs to continue the name.  (Sansa will probably force her future husband to take her name...)

As for the final episode itself - it played out pretty much in the only way that made sense - Daenerys had to die, there had to be consequences to that, the wheel was going to be broken, and the survivors would pick up the pieces.

 
Didn't the bad dragon pretty much entirely eliminate the wall?  Sure looked like it.  But when Jon was headed out to the wildling lands, the wall looked perfectly fine. They built that bad boy up fast..And what for?  Isn't the threat done?

Also looked really warm and comfy at the meeting where they named the kid king..So much for winter...

 
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Didn't the bad dragon pretty much entirely eliminate the wall?  Sure looked like it.  But when Jon was headed out to the wildling lands, the wall looked perfectly fine. They built that bad boy up fast..And what for?  Isn't the threat done?

Also looked really warm and comfy at the meeting where they named the kid king..So much for winter...
When Jon first went back to the wall the castle he came upon was new and set in the gap in the wall the dragon made or at least that's how I took it. Can't find a video of that scene to link to.

I kinda questioned the whole Night's Watch thing too, heck Jon did as well. Don't understand the purpose other than to keep a Wilding attack at bay?

 
Didn't the bad dragon pretty much entirely eliminate the wall?  Sure looked like it.  But when Jon was headed out to the wildling lands, the wall looked perfectly fine. They built that bad boy up fast..And what for?  Isn't the threat done?

Also looked really warm and comfy at the meeting where they named the kid king..So much for winter...
The wall is supposedly 300 miles long. He blow a hole in it on the eastern end of the wall. 

 
Agreed. I'm fine with it knowing who Jon is and not torching him, but being aware of what the Iron Throne is was lame.
They harped repeatedly on how smart dragons are...so I liked that we got to see some of that intelligence. That it wasn't just a loyal dog.

I thought it was going to fly off with Jon and torch the bunny rabbit multiplying dothraki and unsullied to at least clean up that story line. But it makes sense for honorable dumb John to confess. Then I thought it would fly off with Danny to the north and let the children of the corn turn her into the night queen...somehow.

 
There are some people here who clearly have been disappointed in the season (or maybe multiple seasons).  Totally get that.  So I’m wondering...could you sketch out the season you wanted?  I don’t mean “so-and-so shouldn’t have done that?” But a true reimagining.

You have a blank slate and 400 or so minutes to fill it out.  What are your major plot points and character arcs?  In detail...

I mean this only to say, as a smart collective what could be better?  And again this doesn’t mean random criticisms but a complete and satisfying story.  How are we getting from Point A (end of Season 7) to your desired end of Season 8?  In detail...
Working on it already. My story will end nearly the same as I had more of a problem with the execution than anything. 

 
Biggest hole of the night, and there were many, was Sansa declaring the North independent and everyone going along with it, while not one other demanding the same.  No way the Iron Islands or Dorne are not demanding their own independence there.
I thought it was odd as it relates to the Iron Islands, since Yara made independence a precondition for joining Dany in the first place. 

 
Just exactly, what is the Night Watch doing these days?

There's a gaping hole in the wall.
Wildlings are accepted south of the wall.
The White Walkers are....I dunno....dead....agan?
Aren't they technically stationed in a kingdom other than Westeros?

Just what are they protecting the realms of men against up north?
The night's watch existed at the beginning as protectors, but they routinely sent rangers north to fight wildlings and the wildlings fought them.  

The wall was supposed to protect mankind, but it didn't - it left a hundred thousand or more wildlings up north to die if the army of the dead returned.  Remember ygritte talking about how they were here first and you lot just came and put up a wall?  That was not a peaceful act.  The wildlings took umbrage and there were centuries of needless war.

The wall being down, and the wildlings making peace with the nights watch, didn't make the world less safe.  The nights watch is still there to protect - like they protected the people from the dead, the wildlings, ramsey, cersei and ultimately Danaerys. 

The fact that we think of them as an organization that only exists to fight is the exact problem that is solved by this ending.  They're rebuilding the world in peace. 

 
Biggest hole of the night, and there were many, was Sansa declaring the North independent and everyone going along with it, while not one other demanding the same.  No way the Iron Islands or Dorne are not demanding their own independence there.
I thought the same...

That whole scene honestly was ridiculous in so many ways

-Greyworm tells Tyrion to shut his piehole, and seconds later Tyrion has a 3 min oration that captivates the crowd.  Real life Tyrion kicks him and reminds him to keep his piehole shut

-With little to no deliberation they decide who will be the next ruler.  a pretty damn big decision!  And it's made in 5 mins, with the first nominee unanimously agreed to.  Real life that scene goes to hell quickly with bickering.

-The point of the North being independent, while the rest are under rule to Bran.  If any location would accept Bran without bickering it would be the north, his kin...  

-Greyworm should / would have accepted none of it.  

They ran out of time, so I get why it had to be tidy, but it wasn't close to how it would play out realistically

 
It's impossible to please everyone with an ending.  I thought it was excellently done.  

The entire show has been littered with terrible children doing terrible things because they inherited power.  I thought Tyrion's huge "constitution creating" moment where he basically outlined a new way of doing things was incredible.  He had built up a reputation as an extremely smart man.  Despite being a Lannister, he had gained the respect of everyone.  That new constitution immediately made Jon Snow's lineage worthless.   I was a bit sad to see Daenerys spend the entire length of the show desperate to sit on the Iron Throne...get to the point where she was about to sit on it, and then get murdered.  I suppose she was the ultimate example of absolute power corrupting.

Fitting end to just about everyone that was left alive.  Jon Snow heads north and can do whatever he wants, including get married.  Sansa is Queen of North.  Arya isn't stuck somewhere.  The king's advisors were a fun group of people.  Overall a pretty happy ending. 

I was fully expecting a scorched earth "Daenerys kills everyone gains the throne and loses every bit of her humanity" ending, but this one was fine.

 
When Jon first went back to the wall the castle he came upon was new and set in the gap in the wall the dragon made or at least that's how I took it. Can't find a video of that scene to link to.

I kinda questioned the whole Night's Watch thing too, heck Jon did as well. Don't understand the purpose other than to keep a Wilding attack at bay?
I think it was done to satisfy the Unsullied.  But Jon basically immediately abandoned his post and headed north to live.  I doubt he'll ever spend time at the wall again.

 
A couple of funny moments - Sansa telling Edmure to sit down was good - he really had no business being at the table, much less standing up to take the job....

When Samwell brought the book of Ice and Fire, and then mentioned that it omits Tyrion's role completely

:lol:

 
A couple of funny moments - Sansa telling Edmure to sit down was good - he really had no business being at the table, much less standing up to take the job....

When Samwell brought the book of Ice and Fire, and then mentioned that it omits Tyrion's role completely

:lol:
Both were complete air balls

 
I think in general they were worrying way too much about setting up their spinoff shows than ending the show correctly.

Bran just doesn't make sense as king. "I can't be a lord, I'm the 3-eyed raven." (But duh of course I can be king)

The Unsullied: They have the power to decide Jon Snow's fate, but have no interest whatsoever in helping choose the new king/queen. Bring prisoner Tyrion to the panel to supposedly decide his fate, ah well let's just let the dude in handcuffs decide everything.

Arya: What's west of Westeros? This has nothing to do with my character or the story, but we gotta get these spinoff shows going!

Jon Snow: He's actually a Targaryen. Rightful heir to the throne. He must make the tough decision to take the throne from Dany, so more innocents aren't killed. None of that matters. Tyrion, who knew the truth about his family and knew he would be a great leader? "I nominate Bran".

There were some good parts in the finale, but plot-wise they failed miserably IMO. I feel like making Bran king was their big twist to surprise everyone, but it just didn't make sense.

 
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Didn't the bad dragon pretty much entirely eliminate the wall?  Sure looked like it.  But when Jon was headed out to the wildling lands, the wall looked perfectly fine. They built that bad boy up fast..And what for?  Isn't the threat done?

Also looked really warm and comfy at the meeting where they named the kid king..So much for winter...
No it didn’t.   The intro of every show this season shows most of the wall there and there is a giant hole on the one end.   Zombie dragon didn’t blow up castle black.  

Damn you guys lol 

 
Both were complete air balls
One of the best things I've read on the internet so far:

"When they took out the book "Songs of Ice and Fire" I half expected Tyrion to turn, face the camera, and say "this truly was a game of thrones".

Tyrion was the hand to like 14 different kings. And he didn't get a mention? I know it was supposed to be funny but didn't really make sense IMO.

 
was really hoping that no one got the throne and they would become a republic or something.  i thought i was going to be correct when drogon burned down the iron throne.  but no horrible boring bran becomes king.  are you ####### kidding me?  bran, one of the worst characters on the show, becomes king.  

and i also agree there is no way grey worm, the dothraki, and the unsullied allow jon to just walk away after killing dany.  wtf was that
Everyone laughing at the idea of an actual election was the highlight of the season for me.

 
-With little to no deliberation they decide who will be the next ruler.  a pretty damn big decision!  And it's made in 5 mins, with the first nominee unanimously agreed to.  Real life that scene goes to hell quickly with bickering.
Yea the scene was rushed but i think it showed Tyrion was back in the game. After a series of terrible advice to Dany it showed he still had the Tyrion mystique we came to know and love in the first 5 seasons.

I was fine with all of it. Could have been a lot better but with the writers determined to bail, we got about as good as we could get. Somebody mentioned it earlier but they had enough material to do another 2 seasons easy. I'm happy it's over, the build up to these series ending finales is killer and invariably will leave people disappointed.

 
Plotting vs Pantsing: Why the writing in Season 8 felt off.

I think this is really insightful and probably explains the dissatisfaction for so many while also explaining why others still are able to love it.
The problem is they are trying to adapt great literature that isn't complete.   They drew on scenes and even dialogue from the books directly.   Without the complete source material they are on their own,  and not being as talented writers and not having years and years, and YEARS, to rewrite etc. they were bound to lose some quality.  

 
Biggest hole of the night, and there were many, was Sansa declaring the North independent and everyone going along with it, while not one other demanding the same.  No way the Iron Islands or Dorne are not demanding their own independence there.
I think one of the reasons nobody objected is because Winterfell defeated the White Walker invasion and nobody really came to help.

Sansa is saying eff you 

 
The problem is they are trying to adapt great literature that isn't complete.   They drew on scenes and even dialogue from the books directly.   Without the complete source material they are on their own,  and not being as talented writers and not having years and years, and YEARS, to rewrite etc. they were bound to lose some quality.  
I partially disagree>>Had they decided to not try to end the thing in 6 episodes, they could have drawn it out better. This entire thing failed when they went with 13 episodes for the last 2 seasons.   It was destined to suck when that announcement was made.

 
They harped repeatedly on how smart dragons are...so I liked that we got to see some of that intelligence. That it wasn't just a loyal dog.

I thought it was going to fly off with Jon and torch the bunny rabbit multiplying dothraki and unsullied to at least clean up that story line. But it makes sense for honorable dumb John to confess. Then I thought it would fly off with Danny to the north and let the children of the corn turn her into the night queen...somehow.
I thought the same thing and was waiting for Drogon to lower himself so John could climb on and do just that.

 
The problem is they are trying to adapt great literature that isn't complete.   They drew on scenes and even dialogue from the books directly.   Without the complete source material they are on their own,  and not being as talented writers and not having years and years, and YEARS, to rewrite etc. they were bound to lose some quality.  
They did a great job overall....hardhomme...battle of the bastards...hodor....dragons battle....shireen burning.....sept of baelor explosion......i loved the burning of kings landing visually....

Bran as king is kind of weird overall....but im thrilled with the series

 
Enjoyed the first half but the final 30 minutes definitely felt forced and dragged a bit.  Loved seeing Jon reunite with Ghost but other than that was hoping for a less Hollywood ending. Not sure this is what GRRM had in mind.
I'm pretty sure it is similar, though maybe not all the pieces were the same for sake of viewing clarity. A Dream of Spring, if ever actually completed, is probably going to have a protracted aftermath detailing how each of the kingdoms gets on with their lives.

In the game of thrones, you win or you die. Those that didn't die won.

 
Biggest hole of the night, and there were many, was Sansa declaring the North independent and everyone going along with it, while not one other demanding the same.  No way the Iron Islands or Dorne are not demanding their own independence there.
I didn't really think this was a plot hole but I could be wrong.

As Sansa said, the North were on their own for thousands of years prior. Weren't those others always under the rule of Westeros?

 
One advantage with Bran as king is any new person who shows up seemingly to help Westeros but with bad motives can have his past thoroughly reviewed by Bran. 

 
The night's watch existed at the beginning as protectors, but they routinely sent rangers north to fight wildlings and the wildlings fought them.  

The wall was supposed to protect mankind, but it didn't - it left a hundred thousand or more wildlings up north to die if the army of the dead returned.  Remember ygritte talking about how they were here first and you lot just came and put up a wall?  That was not a peaceful act.  The wildlings took umbrage and there were centuries of needless war.

The wall being down, and the wildlings making peace with the nights watch, didn't make the world less safe.  The nights watch is still there to protect - like they protected the people from the dead, the wildlings, ramsey, cersei and ultimately Danaerys. 

The fact that we think of them as an organization that only exists to fight is the exact problem that is solved by this ending.  They're rebuilding the world in peace. 
So why close the gate down, bruh?

 
They did a great job overall....hardhomme...battle of the bastards...hodor....dragons battle....shireen burning.....sept of baelor explosion......i loved the burning of kings landing visually....

Bran as king is kind of weird overall....but im thrilled with the series
seasons 7 and 8 were very choppy.   moments of greatness but much more meh.   before that probably as good as you could hope for.  

 
There are some people here who clearly have been disappointed in the season (or maybe multiple seasons).  Totally get that.  So I’m wondering...could you sketch out the season you wanted?  I don’t mean “so-and-so shouldn’t have done that?” But a true reimagining.

You have a blank slate and 400 or so minutes to fill it out.  What are your major plot points and character arcs?  In detail...

I mean this only to say, as a smart collective what could be better?  And again this doesn’t mean random criticisms but a complete and satisfying story.  How are we getting from Point A (end of Season 7) to your desired end of Season 8?  In detail...
I'm up for this as a thought experiment and creative endeavor, but I think the parameters aren't great. My first choice would be to take the first three episodes of Season 8 and attach them to Season 7. It was a conscious choice by D&D to:

  • stop at Season 8 - honestly probably the right call
  • only make 13 episodes instead of 20 - honestly probably not the right call
I would prefer to go back to Season 5 or 6 and introduce Young Griff even, but I do need to accomplish some work between now and September.

 
Everyone laughing at the idea of an actual election was the highlight of the season for me.
I didn't get the point of spending a minute bringing up democracy, ridiculing it and then rejecting it (who knew the lords of the Great Houses were Republicans?). There were only 82 minutes to wrap things up and we took one of them to make a dumb joke about the commoners voting? 

All hail Bran the Flaccid.

 
If you guys want to make fun of an obvious made for tv moment, then jamie and cersei being buried under a dozen bricks or near an otherwise undisturbed wall isn't the thing to mock.

They were at the top of the pile of rubble, but they started in the basement of the keep. 

Which means they somehow climbed or got thrown up onto the top of the rubble pile, because somehow there was a huge mound of rubble underneath them. 

 

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