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ShaHBucks

Official Latavius Murray - top 5 RB 2013 class

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Makes no sense right? Before we share opinions allow me to state a few FACTS:

1. His size and power, speed, and agility measurements combined are the best in this class. http://mockdraftable.com/player/4317/

2. Since he took over the starting role in his last two games of 2011 (13 games played) he has put up 1795 total yards and 23 total TD's. http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/latavius-murray-1.html

3. This isn't a fact but I'll just lay it out there, Eyeball scouts have a real issue with tall running backs and this guy is 6'3. I guess it's because long striders who run upright don't "look" fast. I have no problem with the upright style that 6'0+ AP and Foster have as long as they are productive.

He is a elite athlete and a dominant college performer. DMC is often injured and his contract is up in 2014, either scenario can lead to you needing to know who this guy is. It might take a year of waiting and the Raiders will probably just resign DMC like dummies, but at the moment he will cost you nothing but being laughed at with one of your mid-last picks in dynasty/redraft.

http://vimeo.com/63352111

<title edited by FBG Mod to help with searching>

Edited by FBG Moderator

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I am another one who is all about Murray. He has huge upside and not much in front of him, DMac has shown all he can do is get hurt.

I think Murray shows promise in the few touches he gets and will be the lead guy in Oakland soon enough, once they realize that McFadden is nothing or when he gets hurt again.

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Keep in mind, this season he will be two years removed from his acl tear...... So, to those who say he is not impressive lateral wise, this should be the season where his ligament, quads, tendons should all be much stronger and return back to a semblance of normalcy.

He squats a $#! $load in one of his videos....

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I'm not a fan of his running style. His receiving ability is much more interesting to me.

Because of his size he was a H-Back for awhile. I've seen some people knock him for that but I don't see how it hurts.

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I'm not a fan of his running style. His receiving ability is much more interesting to me.

Because of his size he was a H-Back for awhile. I've seen some people knock him for that but I don't see how it hurts.

He's awkward. I don't see a natural runner of the ball when I watch him run, and it's not because it's effortless, like you said. It's the opposite. He's got all the measurables but once we see him run against NFL defenses I think we'll see that he's not really cut out for it.

Then there's the likelihood that a 6'3" guy with his upright running style is going to get destroyed by LB's in the NFL. There's a reason there are very few RB's that tall.

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I'm not a fan of his running style. His receiving ability is much more interesting to me.

Because of his size he was a H-Back for awhile. I've seen some people knock him for that but I don't see how it hurts.

He's awkward. I don't see a natural runner of the ball when I watch him run, and it's not because it's effortless, like you said. It's the opposite. He's got all the measurables but once we see him run against NFL defenses I think we'll see that he's not really cut out for it.

Then there's the likelihood that a 6'3" guy with his upright running style is going to get destroyed by LB's in the NFL. There's a reason there are very few RB's that tall.

:goodposting:

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I'm not a fan of his running style. His receiving ability is much more interesting to me.

Because of his size he was a H-Back for awhile. I've seen some people knock him for that but I don't see how it hurts.
He's awkward. I don't see a natural runner of the ball when I watch him run, and it's not because it's effortless, like you said. It's the opposite. He's got all the measurables but once we see him run against NFL defenses I think we'll see that he's not really cut out for it.

Then there's the likelihood that a 6'3" guy with his upright running style is going to get destroyed by LB's in the NFL. There's a reason there are very few RB's that tall.

I don't even know what being "a natural runner of the ball" means. Scouts probably make terms like that up to make them sound like they know something we don't. That and "running too upright" sounds silly to me. I don't get into giving out style points so I laid out facts. To be unbias guys his size are typically stiff and slow, not because of their height it's just because the are stiff and slow. There's no 6'2+ with sub 4.4 speed playing RB.. freaks like that usually move to WR.

There is not many players you can compare him to(except for a few guys I've made in Madden). The only 6'2+ that comes to mind is B. Jacobs at 6'4+. Even 6'1+ is rare air with Adrian Peterson and Benie Wells recently. I'm cool with the upright running style Adrian Peterson, Brandon Jacobs and 6'0+ Arian Foster employ vs NFL LB's.

Edited by ShaHBucks

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I'm not a fan of his running style. His receiving ability is much more interesting to me.

Because of his size he was a H-Back for awhile. I've seen some people knock him for that but I don't see how it hurts.

He's awkward. I don't see a natural runner of the ball when I watch him run, and it's not because it's effortless, like you said. It's the opposite. He's got all the measurables but once we see him run against NFL defenses I think we'll see that he's not really cut out for it.

Then there's the likelihood that a 6'3" guy with his upright running style is going to get destroyed by LB's in the NFL. There's a reason there are very few RB's that tall.

Because there are very few who decide to play that position who are 6'3". Does not change the fact the kid has talent.

Also, do not see any but of what you are saying is "Awkward" and like someone said above what does "Natural Runner" mean. Who and What is a natural runner?

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I consider Forte an "upright" runner as well.

Who doesn't? MJD runs as tall and upright as he possibly can.

No, he doesn't. Forte is definitely an upright runner, and I've never been a big fan.

Everyone runs upright once they hit the open field. That's how you sprint. That's not what I'm talking about.

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Tall backs have a harder time protecting themselves, but just like small backs great vision/anticipation helps a lot. Marcus Allen was a 6'2" speed back and he did OK.

I think his best comp may actually be Ryan Matthews, with a really non-standard build. Aside from the height they're a strong match on every single one of the measures I use.

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McFadden will probably get hurt at some point. I'll keep this guy on my radar, haven't seen him play but have heard his name mentioned a few times.

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I'm not a fan of his running style. His receiving ability is much more interesting to me.

Because of his size he was a H-Back for awhile. I've seen some people knock him for that but I don't see how it hurts.
He's awkward. I don't see a natural runner of the ball when I watch him run, and it's not because it's effortless, like you said. It's the opposite. He's got all the measurables but once we see him run against NFL defenses I think we'll see that he's not really cut out for it.

Then there's the likelihood that a 6'3" guy with his upright running style is going to get destroyed by LB's in the NFL. There's a reason there are very few RB's that tall.

Because there are very few who decide to play that position who are 6'3". Does not change the fact the kid has talent.

Also, do not see any but of what you are saying is "Awkward" and like someone said above what does "Natural Runner" mean. Who and What is a natural runner?

Where is this "talent"? He's not talented just because he's got great size/speed. It's NOT the same thing. He looks like a WR running the ball. It's not all about measurements. He's not really built like a RB either.

The awkward/non-natural runner stuff is all the same. He doesn't look like a RB , and it's not his size. He doesn't run like most RB's. His size/speed advantage in college made up for it. It won't in the NFL. I think running short routes for dump-offs, his extensive RB experience and comparative quickness for his size will be an asset, which is why I said I'm more interested in his receiving ability. For a WR, he is a good runner. I just don't think he's a good enough runner to be an effective RB.

Edited by ConnSKINS26

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Ok, just watched him play and am now wondering:

"Why the hell isn't this guy playing wide-receiver?"

He's got quick feet and is very athletic, has a the ability to turn the corner and but a big play. BUT! There's no way I can see the guy at his current build taking 15 - 20 carries at the Running Back position, let alone taking big hits and pushing the pile.

He's definitely talented enough to get the ball as a change-of-pace back and with his size, Oakland would be foolish not to work on this guy's receiving skills because he's a natural runner with the ball in his hands. Match him up against some shorter / slower linebackers for some easy yards.

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Tall backs have a harder time protecting themselves, but just like small backs great vision/anticipation helps a lot. Marcus Allen was a 6'2" speed back and he did OK.

I think his best comp may actually be Ryan Matthews, with a really non-standard build. Aside from the height they're a strong match on every single one of the measures I use.

I came away with Adrian Peterson as his closest comp. He's actually better physically (on paper), but AP was a way better on field performer.. That's not really a knock on Murray, AP was just that nice. Maybe a thicker McFadden with the way it looks like he's just gliding.

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I think people are falling into the trap of comparing reported 40 times from an on campus workout to the electronic numbers the RBs at the combine put up.

Having followed this stuff for a while, it seems like on average guys who run both at the combine and on campus are usually about .15 faster in the optimistic times that are reported after their campus workout.

When you factor that in, Murray is more like a 4.55 guy which is fine for his size. But in no way more impressive than Peterson running an electronic 4.36 or whatever at the actual combine.

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I think people are falling into the trap of comparing reported 40 times from an on campus workout to the electronic numbers the RBs at the combine put up.

Having followed this stuff for a while, it seems like on average guys who run both at the combine and on campus are usually about .15 faster in the optimistic times that are reported after their campus workout.

When you factor that in, Murray is more like a 4.55 guy which is fine for his size. But in no way more impressive than Peterson running an electronic 4.36 or whatever at the actual combine.

I agree. Some players/schools cook their pro-days. I'm always skeptical of pro days, but It's all the public information I have to work with. Visually, if he was getting caught from behind often then I'd question if he was anywhere close to a sub 4.45 runner. Like you said, even at 4.55 he's not dammed on A NFL level for a big back with the rest of his measurables. Edited by ShaHBucks

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Tall backs have a harder time protecting themselves, but just like small backs great vision/anticipation helps a lot. Marcus Allen was a 6'2" speed back and he did OK.

I think his best comp may actually be Ryan Matthews, with a really non-standard build. Aside from the height they're a strong match on every single one of the measures I use.

I like the Mathews comparison, first highlight video I saw of him reminded me of Mathews right away as well. Good post though ShaHBucks, he's a great value in dynasty startups and rookie drafts IMO, not exactly playing behind the most durable starter and has talent.

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He is long shot but I can't say that there is anything definitely wrong with his running style. I need to see him versus NFL competition to say if he is quick enough to elude defenders. The one thing I think he could improve on is the use of his free arm. With his reach he should use his free arm more as a weapon. He needs to be stiff arming guys like he is Jim Brown.

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I think we're forgetting the main reason he was drafted by the Raiders. He's a late round pick so he's going to have to prove himself on special teams. They have been horrible in that aspect of the game. I think he would be a huge upgrade to their kick return team. With his straight line speed I can envision him making the team first and foremost as their primary kick returner. Then we'll see what kind of football player he really is. He will need to earn a roster spot even before he's to be considered McFadden's primary back up. I read in one of FBGs emails this spring that he injured his leg too (I believe a hammy), so that's something to watch out for as well. For fantasy purposes, I agree he's worth a late round flyer in rookie drafts.

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Chris Brown 2.0.

Surprised Fisher didn't draft this guy.

Whether he's a 4.55 or 4.3x guy, let's not forget his other numbers. 10'4" broad jump and 36" vertical. 22 reps for a guy with 33" arms and nearly 80" wingspan.

The reason there are no RBs his height is because those guys convert to other positions early on in their careers. Every RB gets injured or will get injured for a number of reasons. There are plenty of shorter RBs who can't stay healthy just as there are tall ones.

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Chris Brown 2.0.

Surprised Fisher didn't draft this guy.

Whether he's a 4.55 or 4.3x guy, let's not forget his other numbers. 10'4" broad jump and 36" vertical. 22 reps for a guy with 33" arms and nearly 80" wingspan.

The reason there are no RBs his height is because those guys convert to other positions early on in their careers. Every RB gets injured or will get injured for a number of reasons. There are plenty of shorter RBs who can't stay healthy just as there are tall ones.

James Wilder Sr.?

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Everybody's looking for comps, and from what I've seen on tape he reminds me of a young Eddie George. He's a bigger, almost as fast clone of DMC. But without the injury history. Catches the ball very well out of the backfield and has size and speed to go the distance. He could be a 6th round gem. Definitely has a shot to make an immediate impact if he gets the chance.

What does concern me is the upright running style. It's not an issue on bounce out runs to the outside where his long stride is deceptively fast, kind of like a young Marcus Allen. But you look at the tape as he approaches the line in traffic on off tackle runs. He's almost completely upright, as if he's jogging. He towers over his blockers, waiting for the hole to open. And because of the lost leverage and leg kick, he gets arm tackled and pinned into traffic instead of exploding thru what's there. It's certainly correctable as a fault with coaching, but he can't be an every down back until he learns how to leverage his body and use the off arm more to punch thru holes. The Raiders power blocking system should be a perfect match for his running style when he finally figures it out.

He's raw, but I like his upside considering DMC's history of injuries.

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Daniel Thomas = 6'1" dude who runs far too upright.

When I think tall (current) RB, I think Steven Jackson.

I'd put this guy more in the Thomas camp than the S-Jax camp... but then again I haven't seen much of the guy.

I didn't score him in any of my 3 dynasty leagues but with DMC's penchant for finding his way to the trainer's table, I would certainly think he's worth a shot.

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Daniel Thomas = 6'1" dude who runs far too upright.

When I think tall (current) RB, I think Steven Jackson.

I'd put this guy more in the Thomas camp than the S-Jax camp... but then again I haven't seen much of the guy.

I didn't score him in any of my 3 dynasty leagues but with DMC's penchant for finding his way to the trainer's table, I would certainly think he's worth a shot.

I see SJax as an upright runner in space, but I don't see him at all like that running between the tackles

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Daniel Thomas = 6'1" dude who runs far too upright.

When I think tall (current) RB, I think Steven Jackson.

I'd put this guy more in the Thomas camp than the S-Jax camp... but then again I haven't seen much of the guy.

I didn't score him in any of my 3 dynasty leagues but with DMC's penchant for finding his way to the trainer's table, I would certainly think he's worth a shot.

I see SJax as an upright runner in space, but I don't see him at all like that running between the tackles

I didn't say S-Jax ran upright.... just mentioned him as being one of the taller backs in the league at present..... which is why I'd liken Murray to Thomas much more so than S-Jax.

I'm seriously anti-Thomas though; would much rather have Murray and his potential.

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Daniel Thomas = 6'1" dude who runs far too upright.

When I think tall (current) RB, I think Steven Jackson.

I'd put this guy more in the Thomas camp than the S-Jax camp... but then again I haven't seen much of the guy.

I didn't score him in any of my 3 dynasty leagues but with DMC's penchant for finding his way to the trainer's table, I would certainly think he's worth a shot.

I see SJax as an upright runner in space, but I don't see him at all like that running between the tackles

I didn't say S-Jax ran upright.... just mentioned him as being one of the taller backs in the league at present..... which is why I'd liken Murray to Thomas much more so than S-Jax.

I'm seriously anti-Thomas though; would much rather have Murray and his potential.

Thomas measured pretty slow and un-agile. He's easy to bring down, especially for his size, and especially near the goal-line. I hated his tape coming out. He's a big dude that doesn't want to get hit.

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Eric Dickerson was kinda good.

People either keep forgetting that or are not old enough to remember Dickerson. He ran upright and didn't have the injury issues that people attribute to the taller runners.

Edited by squistion

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If Murray proves to be equal/better than DMC I can't see how the Raiders resign him next year when Murray is on the books for >1m. If you own DMC you have to have Murray. I'm not leaving any drafts without him this year or next if I can help it. His upside is too great for the price.

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Eric Dickerson was kinda good.

People either keep forgetting that or are not old enough to remember Dickerson. He ran upright and didn't have the injury issues that people attribute to the taller runners.

And Matt Cassel won 11 games one season as a starting QB.

The exception doesn't often = the rule. "Dickerson didn't get hurt so therefore upright runners don't get hurt" isn't a valid argument.

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If Murray proves to be equal/better than DMC I can't see how the Raiders resign him next year when Murray is on the books for >1m. If you own DMC you have to have Murray. I'm not leaving any drafts without him this year or next if I can help it. His upside is too great for the price.

Murray went from guy to keep on your radar to chucking DMC out the door pretty quick.

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If Murray proves to be equal/better than DMC I can't see how the Raiders resign him next year when Murray is on the books for >1m. If you own DMC you have to have Murray. I'm not leaving any drafts without him this year or next if I can help it. His upside is too great for the price.

Murray went from guy to keep on your radar to chucking DMC out the door pretty quick.

I said "DMC is often injured and his contract is up in 2014, either scenario can lead to you needing to know who this guy is." I was just elaborating on if he's as good as I'm advertising. DMC has gave the Raiders little ROI for the 9m he's due. Edited by ShaHBucks

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I hope he is something. But I just haven't seen it.

He looks a little bit like a poor man's DMC, actually. Fast, but certainly doesn't have DMC's wheels.

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Eric Dickerson was kinda good.

People either keep forgetting that or are not old enough to remember Dickerson. He ran upright and didn't have the injury issues that people attribute to the taller runners.

And Matt Cassel won 11 games one season as a starting QB.

The exception doesn't often = the rule. "Dickerson didn't get hurt so therefore upright runners don't get hurt" isn't a valid argument.

That was just one season. Check out Dickerson's career stats, contrary to what you are suggesting, he actually had more than one good year. Comparing Matt Cassel with a HOF RB is disingenuous IMO. You shouldn't be able to rush for 13,000+ yards for over a decade if your running style automatically makes you injury prone - which is what people are suggesting here, but when one points to Dickerson and other taller RBs who weren't injured more than RBs that don't run upright, they are always shrugged off as some sort of as an exception.

Edited by squistion

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I'm really excited to finally see him play in a preseason game. But the hype is a little inflated in here. I hope Murray can spell DMC and form an effective RBBC that will limit DMC's touches and keep him fresh (and healthy). I'm basically rooting against all of you fantasy footballers in here looking for cheap RB's to fill out your rosters. Sorry.

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For every upright runner you give I can give 2 leaners who also got hurt.

It's really a silly argument and is on a case by case basis.

As for the hype, I think people are trying to state the positives for Murray and detractors are quick to shoot it down.

Time will tell. That's the beauty of this hobby. :)

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We're also forgetting about Marcel Reese in this discussion, no? Do we anticipate his role staying the same whether or not DMC goes down?

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Eric Dickerson was kinda good.

People either keep forgetting that or are not old enough to remember Dickerson. He ran upright and didn't have the injury issues that people attribute to the taller runners.

And Matt Cassel won 11 games one season as a starting QB.

The exception doesn't often = the rule. "Dickerson didn't get hurt so therefore upright runners don't get hurt" isn't a valid argument.

That was just one season. Check out Dickerson's career stats, contrary to what you are suggesting, he actually had more than one good year. Comparing Matt Cassel with a HOF RB is disingenuous IMO. You shouldn't be able to rush for 13,000+ yards for over a decade if your running style automatically makes you injury prone - which is what people are suggesting here, but when one points to Dickerson and other taller RBs who weren't injured more than RBs that don't run upright, they are always shrugged off as some sort of as an exception.

He was comparing Cassel's one season to the rest of his career not comparing Cassel to Dickerson.

And he was comparing Dickerson to the rest of the RB's who ever played in the NFL of which there are none really like him.

Logic 101 down?

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I watched the highlights on him a while back, nothing stood out to me suggesting that he is anything special as a runner. This is in addition to the fact that the competition he faced at his small school will be nothing compared to what he will face in the nfl. I know small school backs have made it big before (see alfred morris last year) but he struck me, again from watching his "highlights," as a guy who has made it largely on the strength of his athleticism up until this point playing against much smaller fare in college.

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Not to totally discount him, because he does have requisite size and athleticism, and a guy who never puts it on the ground will certainly have a shot. I suspect that he will have a steep learning curve in transitioning to the nfl however, and should be best viewed as a project.

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