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Official Johnny Manziel Thread: XFL willing to change the 'no criminality' policy?

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He'll have a Tebow-like career. Very short, but will be given a shot because of his 'name' and college success. Out of football in three years. Probably in jail.

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Too short.

I said the same thing about Wilson. I won't make that same mistake again.

Bump all short QBs?

Ones with skills, yes.

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Sweet. That's all of them.

If you think so.

This might shock you, but one doesn't have to think or believe something to be so for it to be so. All short QBs have skills. This is a fact.

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Sweet. That's all of them.

If you think so.

This might shock you, but one doesn't have to think or believe something to be so for it to be so. All short QBs have skills. This is a fact.

Okay, if I have to make it clear...I meant NFL-caliber skills.

Guys shouldn't automatically be discounted because they are short.

(Why do people insist on making life more difficult for others?)

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Sweet. That's all of them.

If you think so.

This might shock you, but one doesn't have to think or believe something to be so for it to be so. All short QBs have skills. This is a fact.

Okay, if I have to make it clear...I meant NFL-caliber skills.

Guys shouldn't automatically be discounted because they are short.

(Why do people insist on making life more difficult for others?)

There are NFL-caliber skilled QBs that would have been better if they had been taller. In fact, most of them.

What you are doing is applying an exception to make a rule. The people that do that are wrong more often than the people that don't.

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There are NFL-caliber skilled QBs that would have been better if they had been taller. In fact, most of them.

What you are doing is applying an exception to make a rule. The people that do that are wrong more often than the people that don't.

The only "rule" I'm making is that height isn't an automatic discounter as guys like Brees and Wilson have shown.

It's still a factor. It's just not a career death sentence.

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There are NFL-caliber skilled QBs that would have been better if they had been taller. In fact, most of them.

What you are doing is applying an exception to make a rule. The people that do that are wrong more often than the people that don't.

The only "rule" I'm making is that height isn't an automatic discounter as guys like Brees and Wilson have shown.

It's still a factor. It's just not a career death sentence.

What if a QB with "skills" is only 5'1"?

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There are NFL-caliber skilled QBs that would have been better if they had been taller. In fact, most of them.

What you are doing is applying an exception to make a rule. The people that do that are wrong more often than the people that don't.

The only "rule" I'm making is that height isn't an automatic discounter as guys like Brees and Wilson have shown.

It's still a factor. It's just not a career death sentence.

What if a QB with "skills" is only 5'1"?

:rolleyes:

This isn't a serious discussion. Forget it.

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There are NFL-caliber skilled QBs that would have been better if they had been taller. In fact, most of them.

What you are doing is applying an exception to make a rule. The people that do that are wrong more often than the people that don't.

The only "rule" I'm making is that height isn't an automatic discounter as guys like Brees and Wilson have shown.

It's still a factor. It's just not a career death sentence.

What if a QB with "skills" is only 5'1"?

:rolleyes:

This isn't a serious discussion. Forget it.

OK. I don't believe you if you said "That Russell Wilson is great, but he's too short. If he were taller, he'd be perfect"

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Jesus Christ, Skypager. I know Andy can be a nitpicker himself and it's a little satisfying to see him get a good dose of his own medicine but you seem to be on a genuine mission of needless parsing. You're not a Cobalt alias, are you?

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Jesus Christ, Skypager. I know Andy can be a nitpicker himself and it's a little satisfying to see him get a good dose of his own medicine but you seem to be on a genuine mission of needless parsing. You're not a Cobalt alias, are you?

I thought he liked it. :shrug:

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Jesus Christ, Skypager. I know Andy can be a nitpicker himself and it's a little satisfying to see him get a good dose of his own medicine but you seem to be on a genuine mission of needless parsing. You're not a Cobalt alias, are you?

Say what? :P

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Jesus Christ, Skypager. I know Andy can be a nitpicker himself and it's a little satisfying to see him get a good dose of his own medicine but you seem to be on a genuine mission of needless parsing. You're not a Cobalt alias, are you?

Say what? :P

Right back at ya.

Jesus Christ, Skypager. I know Andy can be a nitpicker himself and it's a little satisfying to see him get a good dose of his own medicine but you seem to be on a genuine mission of needless parsing. You're not a Cobalt alias, are you?

Say what? :P

Andy Dufresne. :P

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He'll have a Tebow-like career. Very short, but will be given a shot because of his 'name' and college success. Out of football in three years. Probably in jail.

The trouble he gets into off the field isn't really of the "go to jail" variety. He's just kind of a douchy rich kid.

Edited by ConnSKINS26

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Too short.

I said the same thing about Wilson. I won't make that same mistake again.

Ditto. I missed on Wilson and it's a rarity when I miss on a QB.

This guy could be something. The new rules of no touching a QB are definitely going to help him stave of injuries.

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I won't lie, I haven't seen much about Manziel except a few highlights with him running around behind the line of scrimmage. I honestly don't remember any more than 5 Sportscenter plays I have seen. It sort of reminds me of Tebow, but I'm sure this can't be the case since a lot of people really like this kid. How are his non highlight plays? Is he a good pocket passer?

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The comparisons to SEA QB Russell Wilson due to them being the same hieght and having similiar scrambling ability is fair but that comparison is not fair to Wilson for two reasons.

1. Russell has come into the league and has produced. So he's already done it.

2. Character. Russell has oodles of high charactor whereas Johnny Manziel has made poor decisions that reflect on his charactor.

I'm read where some teams might wind up taking him off their draft boards.

Charactor is very important for a franchise QB so I understand the comparisons of Johnny Manziel to Russell Wilson based on the fact they are both 5-11 and can get out of trouble and reset or hurt teams with their amazing scrambling ability but to be fair to Russell Wilson he has already proven himself and he also has high charactor and that is the biggest concern for many about him coming into the league and having success similiar to Russell Wilson.

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The comparisons to Wilson are all in the skills category.

Ben Roethlisberger was a dbag when he was young too.

Manziel's personality isn't a fit for every situation. But it's something he can possibly grow out of. Independent of that, his football awareness is absurdly good and his passing skills are more than adequate.

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Yeah I don't think Tebow is a very good comparison. Manziel can throw the ball unlike Tim. I would wager that Manziel is equal in competitiveness thats it. Besides the obvious character questions there are things that concern me about him in the pros as my Texans are very much in the market for a new quarterback. Obviously he's not as big as you'd like especially for a guy that projects to run around a lot. He has also have the benefit of a supremely talented wide receiver who is simply better than everybody he faces in Mike Evans. He throws a lot of passes up for grabs and he will have to make better decisions in the pros. Sometimes he can get flustered in the pocket as well if you take away his first read and keep your rush lanes and confine him to the pocket. I'm sure there will be questions about his arm strength as well but it hasn't looked too bad to me this year.

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One thing that really impresses me about his scrambling ability is that even when he does it he's normally still looking down field to make a throw. Most guys that decide to run can't do that.

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Yeah I don't think Tebow is a very good comparison. Manziel can throw the ball unlike Tim. I would wager that Manziel is equal in competitiveness thats it. Besides the obvious character questions there are things that concern me about him in the pros as my Texans are very much in the market for a new quarterback. Obviously he's not as big as you'd like especially for a guy that projects to run around a lot. He has also have the benefit of a supremely talented wide receiver who is simply better than everybody he faces in Mike Evans. He throws a lot of passes up for grabs and he will have to make better decisions in the pros. Sometimes he can get flustered in the pocket as well if you take away his first read and keep your rush lanes and confine him to the pocket. I'm sure there will be questions about his arm strength as well but it hasn't looked too bad to me this year.

I am sure that Mike Evans benefits from the play of Manziel and that Manziel benefits from Evans but Manziel also has Jake Mathews an OLT who is consistently listed high in many mock drafts.

I'm not sure how much of the high rankings of Evans and Mathews are due to their abilitiy alone and how much is a credit to Manziel or how much of Manziel's production/ability is a reflection of the talent of Evans and Mathews but you are right, that is a factor that needs to be factored in for any discussion of Manziel.

Wilson benefits from a strong defense and a strong rushing attack but his WRs/TEs are not very talented and his offensive line is a shambles right now.

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Oh definitely there's a lot to like about Johnny's game.... You're also have to consider he's throwing those jump balls of knowing that he has Evans to go get it..... Having watched Matt Schaub fail to trust Andre Johnson like that over the years that is not necessarily a bad thing all the time....

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Yeah I don't think Tebow is a very good comparison. Manziel can throw the ball unlike Tim. I would wager that Manziel is equal in competitiveness thats it. Besides the obvious character questions there are things that concern me about him in the pros as my Texans are very much in the market for a new quarterback. Obviously he's not as big as you'd like especially for a guy that projects to run around a lot. He has also have the benefit of a supremely talented wide receiver who is simply better than everybody he faces in Mike Evans. He throws a lot of passes up for grabs and he will have to make better decisions in the pros. Sometimes he can get flustered in the pocket as well if you take away his first read and keep your rush lanes and confine him to the pocket. I'm sure there will be questions about his arm strength as well but it hasn't looked too bad to me this year.

I am sure that Mike Evans benefits from the play of Manziel and that Manziel benefits from Evans but Manziel also has Jake Mathews an OLT who is consistently listed high in many mock drafts.

I'm not sure how much of the high rankings of Evans and Mathews are due to their abilitiy alone and how much is a credit to Manziel or how much of Manziel's production/ability is a reflection of the talent of Evans and Mathews but you are right, that is a factor that needs to be factored in for any discussion of Manziel.

Wilson benefits from a strong defense and a strong rushing attack but his WRs/TEs are not very talented and his offensive line is a shambles right now.

He had Luke Joeckel the year before. Is Texas A&M really good at developing linemen? Could it be possible that Manziel makes the line look better like Peyton Manning? I'm not saying either is the answer, but there's something not so ordinary about having top 10 draft pick left tackles two years in a row.

Edited by Late225

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Oh definitely there's a lot to like about Johnny's game.... You're also have to consider he's throwing those jump balls of knowing that he has Evans to go get it..... Having watched Matt Schaub fail to trust Andre Johnson like that over the years that is not necessarily a bad thing all the time....

If you have capable WRs then the results are TD, defensive interference, incomplete or INT in that order. Jeff Blake, the king of the punt pass lived off that typwe of throw. Anytime the Lions are inside the 5, it should be a lob to Calvin. Somehow, they can't figure that out.

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Best comparison I have is Andy Dalton with Julian Edelman's athleticism.

Wilson has a much better arm and "easier" delivery. Manziel has to "chuck" everything and locks out his front leg on almost every throw.

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Best comparison I have is Andy Dalton with Julian Edelman's athleticism.

Wilson has a much better arm and "easier" delivery. Manziel has to "chuck" everything and locks out his front leg on almost every throw.

Philip Rivers chucks it like Manziel. But like Rivers, Manziel's delivery is quick and compact and has plenty of velocity.

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He would be awesome in Purple.

Welcome aboard the party bus! :drive:

I'm on board as well. Would love the Vikes to get him but I'm sure we'll pass since we will most likely have a top 3 pick & the brass will take someone else..

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He would be awesome in Purple.

Welcome aboard the party bus! :drive:

Back in the day it was a party boat... :kicksrock:

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Best comparison I have is Andy Dalton with Julian Edelman's athleticism.

Wilson has a much better arm and "easier" delivery. Manziel has to "chuck" everything and locks out his front leg on almost every throw.

Philip Rivers chucks it like Manziel. But like Rivers, Manziel's delivery is quick and compact and has plenty of velocity.

Manziel has Evans, and Rivers had Floyd/Jackson. I only feel good about Manziel if he has a "Mike Evans" to throw to in the NFL.

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Best comparison I have is Andy Dalton with Julian Edelman's athleticism.

Wilson has a much better arm and "easier" delivery. Manziel has to "chuck" everything and locks out his front leg on almost every throw.

Philip Rivers chucks it like Manziel. But like Rivers, Manziel's delivery is quick and compact and has plenty of velocity.

Manziel has Evans, and Rivers had Floyd/Jackson. I only feel good about Manziel if he has a "Mike Evans" to throw to in the NFL.

So they'll take him in the second round. :shrug:

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Just a few hours ago Albert Breer was on Cleveland sports talk and he was asked about Johnny Manziel.

I'll post the transcript of what he said about Manziel below the link and slug-line of the interview.

If you go to the link, he doesn't talk about Manziel until the 8:40 mark of the audio file.

Breer brought up one very interesting nugget about Manziel's SIZE NOT HIEGHT but SIZE that could become an issue but he also mentioned that if you buy into him then you are buying into an offense that highlights his style of play. He also mentioned that some teams will like him and others won't so on some team's draft boards he won't rate any higher than a third round pick.

Timely and new information.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2013/11/20/albert-breer-of-manziel-as-first-rounder-there-will-be-enough-teams-that-like-him/

NFL Network’s Albert Breer joined Bull & Fox to talk about the parity around the NFL and more evidence of it this past week with Carolina’s victory over New England, the non-call at the end of that Monday night gameicon1.png, the Steelers’ victory over the Lions in week 11 and where this team is capable of being, the matchup with the Browns on Sunday, Johnny Manziel’s pro prospects in regards to next year’s draft.

ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF WHAT BREER SAID ABOUT MANZIEL:

 

QUESTION: Albert, Rich Goslen wrote a piece about Johnny Manziel and he says that NFL scouts are salivating over him, they are saying that uh, this guy is so smart and even though he’s not that tall that he doesn’t have that NFL body, that everybody wants him. Are you hearing similar things?

Albert Breer: Yeah, ah I think he’s got a good shot at being a first rounder. Here’s the thing, you either love him or you hate him.

His problem is going to be his size and I’m not talking about his height because a lot of people will say. Oh ya know what about Russell Wilson? What about Drew Brees?

Its not so much his height as it is his build and if you are going to run around that way, and take those hits that he’s going to incur. Not only scrambling but also just running around in the pocket the way that he does … How are you going to hold up?

So I think for him… He does have all of the skills that you need.

A big thing for him is going to be when he gets to the combine and he gets to these private workouts … uh … when the scouts get to eyeball him. Yah when they get a look at him and they can say that he can put on fifteen or twenty more pounds OR his frame isn’t going to allow him to carry that additional weight. So I think that is absolutely going to be a big part of it and then from there … ya know I think its up to your own likes and dislikes as a club and do you want that sort of quarterback because obviously if you have that type of quarterback then you are committing to playing a certain way.

So I think its going to be that sort of situation where he’s likely going to be going in the first round because their’s going to be enough teams that like him but there are going to be a couple of other teams out there that are going to look at him like a third or fourth rounder.

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Go to the link for a more detaied video.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000285071/article/johnny-manziel-can-be-better-than-russell-wilson-scout-says

Johnny Manziel can be better than Russell Wilson, scout says

By Chase Goodbread

  • College Football 24/7 writer
  • Published: Nov. 20, 2013 at 01:40 p.m.
  • Updated: Nov. 21, 2013 at 04:59 a.m.

Russell Wilson's place among the NFL's most dynamic young quarterbacks is impressive by any standard.

But the Seattle Seahawks' second-year starter is no Johnny Manziel. At least, that's what one NFL scout believes. In a dallasnews.com report about Manziel's potential as a pro, this quote stood above all else:

"If Russell Wilson can take a team to the Super Bowl, Manziel can do all that and more," said the source.

As a third-year sophomore, Manziel is eligible to enter the 2014 NFL Draft next spring and skip his final two seasons of college eligibility. At least one teammate seems to expect it to happen, along with the departure of star receiver Mike Evans. As for Manziel, it's the ease with which he carves up opposing defenses, in particular, the best defense in the college game, that has impressed at least one NFL personnel type. The story notes that Manziel has delivered over 900 total yards and seven touchdowns in two career meetings with Alabama.

"Cam Newton is the only other college quarterback I've seen dominate like that," said one.

So where might Manziel land? The Philadelphia Eagles have been identified as one possible fit. And if we assume the team that selects him has a coach willing to value athleticism over size in a quarterback, Eagles coach Chip Kelly -- who once had Manziel committed to attend Oregon -- would certainly qualify.

What other NFL clubs might make a good home for Johnny Football? Here are a few thoughts.

(Link to an earlier discussion about the best NFL fit for Manziel)>>>>>>>

>>>>>

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000280327/article/instant-debate-what-nfl-team-is-best-fit-for-johnny-manziel

Instant debate: What NFL team is best fit for Johnny Manziel?

  • Bucky Brooks NFL.com
  • Philly is ideal landing spotJohnny Manziel's skills as a dual-threat quarterback would make him a perfect in Philadelphia. Chip Kelly recruited Manziel hard as a high school senior, so he obviously thinks he's a good fit in his scheme. Additionally, his familiarity with some of the zone-read/bubble-screen concepts would make him the ideal trigger man to run the Eagles' offense. Factor in his explosive improvisational running skills, and he gives the NFL's most explosive offense another dynamic weapon to use to create big plays.
  • Daniel Jeremiah NFL.com
  • Answer is clearThis is an obvious choice: the Chip Kelly-led Philadelphia Eagles. Kelly recruited him to play at Oregon and he's a perfect mix of athleticism and accuracy to fit the Eagles' scheme. Tampa is another team that would make sense. They have big wide receivers and Manziel loves to throw those 50-50 balls down the field.
  • Charles Davis NFL.com
  • Cowboys a fit, but not the best oneFirst of all, Manziel is a player that has special gifts that often cannot be quantified. Despite the success of Drew Brees, and Russell Wilson, shorter QBs around 6-feet tall are still viewed by many scouts with an arched eyebrow. But, if you have the movement skills that Brees, and, to a greater extent, Wilson possess, that stigma gets pushed down on the "worries" list ... and movement skills are a huge part of what makes Manziel the special talent that we know as "Johnny Football."

    So, what team fits? Someone creative on offense, willing to adapt to the QB and his skill set. Someone who has no problem with not just QB-run plays, but rolling, and moving pockets to change the launch points for the QB, and make it difficult for defenses to zero in on him. A coach who can work with a QB that is, shall we say, "free spirited." Hmmm ... the Jacksonville Jaguars. I hear you saying, "Dallas Cowboys," and that does fit well (although remember, they are all in on Tony Romo), but Jacksonville is also a good fit. The Jaguars' new young GM, Dave Caldwell, was with Atlanta, and watched the Falcons draft Matt Ryan and grow with him. Head coach Gus Bradley, who previously served as the defensive coordinator in Seattle, watched Russell Wilson flourish, and his offensive coordinator, Jedd Fisch, is young, innovative, and relates very well to his QBs. Since Jacksonville has been adamant that they will not bring in native son Tim Tebow to get the populace buzzing (and sell tickets), "Johnny Football" serves as the perfect alternative, albeit, the "Anti-Tebow."
  • Chase Goodbread College Football 24/7
  • Manziel could be perfect down by the BayWho couldn't picture Johnny Manziel in a Tampa Bay Buccaneers uniform? A franchise well on its way to a coaching change, in need of a new quarterback, and in even more dire need of excitement for its fan base could do a lot worse. As high as the Bucs are surely to pick in the first round, they could almost certainly trade back for more draft picks and still get Manziel. Then go back to the old-school Bucs helmets. He'd look oh-so-right running all over the field while rocking the pirate decal.
  • Mike Huguenin College Football 24/7
  • Kelly, Manziel a good matchHe obviously needs to go to a team willing to tweak its offense to best fit his skills. I'm not saying Manziel is a can't-miss guy, but he won't succeed as a pocket passer in the NFL. I don't think he is worth a top-15 pick, but I can see his value as a mid- to late first-rounder. Chip Kelly and Manziel would be a good fit, but Nick Foles sure looks comfortable in that Eagles offense. Truthfully, it's hard to answer this without knowing who is going to be coaching each team next season. Manziel needs to go to a team with a free-thinker as the head coach.

  • Dan Greenspan College Football 24/7
  • Kingpin belongs in Queen CityCan Andy Dalton ever win the Super Bowl, or is he merely competent enough to get the Bengals bounced in the first round of the playoffs every season? Forty-two career interceptions in 42 career regular-season starts and a 60.8 career completion percentage would seemingly indicate the latter, so why not go big and turn to Mr. Jonathan F. Football? Manziel's mobility, deep ball, and knack for improvisation would meld perfectly with an outstanding crop of skill players led by wide receiver A.J. Green. With the new collective bargaining agreement making mid-to-late first-round picks a reasonable investment, the Bengals could easily draft Manziel, let Dalton play out the final season of his rookie contract, and decide which path to take at the end of 2014.

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Best comparison I have is Andy Dalton with Julian Edelman's athleticism.

Wilson has a much better arm and "easier" delivery. Manziel has to "chuck" everything and locks out his front leg on almost every throw.

Philip Rivers chucks it like Manziel. But like Rivers, Manziel's delivery is quick and compact and has plenty of velocity.

Manziel has Evans, and Rivers had Floyd/Jackson. I only feel good about Manziel if he has a "Mike Evans" to throw to in the NFL.

So they'll take him in the second round. :shrug:

Vikes already have Patterson

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I keep wondering why Gary Danielson insists on calling Zack Mettenberger a first round pick. I don't see it.

Ever hear him compare Florida QB Jeff Driskel to Troy Aikman?

I think he just wants to see if we're paying attention.

Edited by Raider Nation

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He's losing a lot of money today.

Playing a real defense.... pooping himself.

His numbers look bad. He hasn't played that bad today. There has been a lot of dropped balls and the weather in the first half was bad. His first 4 drives I thought he looked really good but the numbers said 2 for 8. It's clearly not his best game but wouldn't say he's pooping himself.

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He's losing a lot of money today.

Playing a real defense.... pooping himself.

His numbers look bad. He hasn't played that bad today. There has been a lot of dropped balls and the weather in the first half was bad. His first 4 drives I thought he looked really good but the numbers said 2 for 8. It's clearly not his best game but wouldn't say he's pooping himself.

How about now?

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He's losing a lot of money today.

Playing a real defense.... pooping himself.

His numbers look bad. He hasn't played that bad today. There has been a lot of dropped balls and the weather in the first half was bad. His first 4 drives I thought he looked really good but the numbers said 2 for 8. It's clearly not his best game but wouldn't say he's pooping himself.

How about now?

Haha maybe a little poop came out......

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I shouldn't be so mean.... he'll be available right about where the Raiders are picking. :bag:

I'd love to have him on my team. I know many people don't agree but I think he will do fine in the NFL.

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