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Official Johnny Manziel Thread (3 Viewers)

I forget where I read it recently but I think people need to distinguish between players that are products and players that are projects.

Some guys are great college players when they come out...but they can't get any better than they already are. They're a product.

Then there are guys that start out good-to-great but there are areas of their game that can get better. They're not a project that has to be built from ground up but rather talents that can be molded.

I think Manziel is the latter - just like Tannehill was. Teams (I'm looking at you, Cleveland) passed on him too because he wasn't a good enough product. But guys like these can be coached and get better.

 
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Bob Magaw said:
Concept Coop said:
Xue said:
Andy Dufresne said:
He's not a running QB. He's a QB that runs.
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He's a QB that runs that mostly makes plays outside the pocket and on broken plays chucking it up to a 6'5" WR who overpowers smaller DBs.
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I don't get this. His out-of-the-pocket accuracy shouldn't be in question.
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It wouldn't be as zippy a sound byte substituting passing it accurately for chucking it up. :)
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I read this wrong at first. I thought Bob Magaw was outing Xue as a Zippy alias. Which would have been really cool.

I would stalk you, Xue, were this true. At least until I went insane.

 
roadkill1292 said:
Bob Magaw said:
Concept Coop said:
Xue said:
Andy Dufresne said:
He's not a running QB. He's a QB that runs.
Click to expand...
He's a QB that runs that mostly makes plays outside the pocket and on broken plays chucking it up to a 6'5" WR who overpowers smaller DBs.
Click to expand...
I don't get this. His out-of-the-pocket accuracy shouldn't be in question.
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be as zippy a sound byte substituting passing it accurately for chucking it up. :)
Click to expand...
I read this wrong at first. I thought Bob Magaw was outing Xue as a Zippy alias. Which would have been really cool.

I would stalk you, Xue, were this true. At least until I went insane.
Click to expand...
RIP Zippy :(

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I forget where I read it recently but I think people need to distinguish between players that are products and players that are projects.

Some guys are great college players when they come out...but they can't get any better than they already are. They're a product.

Then there are guys that start out good-to-great but there are areas of their game that can get better. They're not a project that has to be built from ground up but rather talents that can be molded.

I think Manziel is the latter - just like Tannehill was. Teams (I'm looking at you, Cleveland) passed on him too because he wasn't a good enough product. But guys like these can be coached and get better.
Click to expand...
Lol, and sometimes teams take a project QB higher in the first round hoping he'll develop and he doesn't develop (I'm looing at you, Minnesota).

Cleveland changed the decision makers from Mike Holmgren who hand-pick Pat Shurmur as his head coach so he could install his West Coast offensive system and then Mike took a QB who was a good fit for the WC.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Andy Dufresne said:
I forget where I read it recently but I think people need to distinguish between players that are products and players that are projects.

Some guys are great college players when they come out...but they can't get any better than they already are. They're a product.

Then there are guys that start out good-to-great but there are areas of their game that can get better. They're not a project that has to be built from ground up but rather talents that can be molded.

I think Manziel is the latter - just like Tannehill was. Teams (I'm looking at you, Cleveland) passed on him too because he wasn't a good enough product. But guys like these can be coached and get better.
Click to expand...
Lol, and sometimes teams take a project QB higher in the first round hoping he'll develop and he doesn't develop (I'm looing at you, Minnesota).

Cleveland changed the decision makers from Mike Holmgren who hand-pick Pat Shurmur as his head coach so he could install his West Coast offensive system and then Mike took a QB who was a good fit for the WC.
Click to expand...
ponder was a positional reach and a mistake but this was widely alluded to at the time (kind of like the draft in which almost universally, donte whitner, a good but not great safety like an eric berry, was acknowledged as a positional reach in the top 10 and a head scratcher pick by BUF).

manziel has already done far more than ponder. recently rick gosselin (used to be the mock draft guru because his NFL contacts and insider sources were so well placed, though he doesn't do it any more) stated he was convinced manziel would be a top 12 pick...

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20131203-gosselin-i-m-convinced-texas-am-s-johnny-manziel-will-be-a-top-12-draft-pick.ece

more along the same lines, with a scout saying top 10. also, among seven scouts interviewed, not one thought off field questions would drop his draft stock.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/cfb/26936/scout-johnny-manziel-will-be-a-top-10-pick

"The Star-Telegram's Charean Williams spoke with four NFL scouts that believe Texas A&M redshirt sophomore QB Johnny Manziel will be a first-round pick, with one stating "he will go in the top 10."
"I think Johnny Manziel is that good," the same scout said. "I think the guy is unique, and guys like Russell Wilson have paved the way for him." Another important note Williams added was not one of the seven scouts interviewed believe off-field concerns will affect Manziel’s draft stock. "There is a difference between being a criminal and being a knucklehead," one scout explained. "He’s a knucklehead. We have a lot of knuckleheads on our team."
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Concept Coop said:
Xue said:
Andy Dufresne said:
He's not a running QB. He's a QB that runs.
Click to expand...
He's a QB that runs that mostly makes plays outside the pocket and on broken plays chucking it up to a 6'5" WR who overpowers smaller DBs.
Click to expand...
I don't get this. His out-of-the-pocket accuracy shouldn't be in question.
Click to expand...
I saw him throw a lot of accurate passes rolling to his left and throwing across his body, not something everyone can do.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Andy Dufresne said:
I forget where I read it recently but I think people need to distinguish between players that are products and players that are projects.

Some guys are great college players when they come out...but they can't get any better than they already are. They're a product.

Then there are guys that start out good-to-great but there are areas of their game that can get better. They're not a project that has to be built from ground up but rather talents that can be molded.

I think Manziel is the latter - just like Tannehill was. Teams (I'm looking at you, Cleveland) passed on him too because he wasn't a good enough product. But guys like these can be coached and get better.
Click to expand...
Lol, and sometimes teams take a project QB higher in the first round hoping he'll develop and he doesn't develop (I'm looing at you, Minnesota).Cleveland changed the decision makers from Mike Holmgren who hand-pick Pat Shurmur as his head coach so he could install his West Coast offensive system and then Mike took a QB who was a good fit for the WC.
Click to expand...
Yeah. You didn't understand what I wrote.
 
Andy Dufresne said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Andy Dufresne said:
I forget where I read it recently but I think people need to distinguish between players that are products and players that are projects.

Some guys are great college players when they come out...but they can't get any better than they already are. They're a product.

Then there are guys that start out good-to-great but there are areas of their game that can get better. They're not a project that has to be built from ground up but rather talents that can be molded.

I think Manziel is the latter - just like Tannehill was. Teams (I'm looking at you, Cleveland) passed on him too because he wasn't a good enough product. But guys like these can be coached and get better.
Click to expand...
Lol, and sometimes teams take a project QB higher in the first round hoping he'll develop and he doesn't develop (I'm looing at you, Minnesota).Cleveland changed the decision makers from Mike Holmgren who hand-pick Pat Shurmur as his head coach so he could install his West Coast offensive system and then Mike took a QB who was a good fit for the WC.
Click to expand...
Yeah. You didn't understand what I wrote.
Click to expand...
Evidentally you understood everything I wrote because you're soo smart, good for you Andy. :pokey:

The former Cleveland front office passed on Tannenhill for a number of reasons, primarily he didn't fit the offensive system that Mike Holmgren painstakenly installed.

I'm anxiously awaiting post #100,000 by you when everything you say maigically makes sense. :banned:

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Andy Dufresne said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Andy Dufresne said:
I forget where I read it recently but I think people need to distinguish between players that are products and players that are projects.

Some guys are great college players when they come out...but they can't get any better than they already are. They're a product.

Then there are guys that start out good-to-great but there are areas of their game that can get better. They're not a project that has to be built from ground up but rather talents that can be molded.

I think Manziel is the latter - just like Tannehill was. Teams (I'm looking at you, Cleveland) passed on him too because he wasn't a good enough product. But guys like these can be coached and get better.
Click to expand...
Lol, and sometimes teams take a project QB higher in the first round hoping he'll develop and he doesn't develop (I'm looing at you, Minnesota).Cleveland changed the decision makers from Mike Holmgren who hand-pick Pat Shurmur as his head coach so he could install his West Coast offensive system and then Mike took a QB who was a good fit for the WC.
Click to expand...
Yeah. You didn't understand what I wrote.
Click to expand...
Evidentally you understood everything I wrote because you're soo smart, good for you Andy. :pokey:

The former Cleveland front office passed on Tannenhill for a number of reasons, primarily he didn't fit the offensive system that Mike Holmgren painstakenly installed.

I'm anxiously awaiting post #100,000 by you when everything you say maigically makes sense. :banned:
Click to expand...
No Bracie, you're right. I understand almost nothing of what you write.

And your second sentence shows example 4,872 why the Browns - from ownership to fanbase - are such a sorry organization. A great player doesn't fit our scheme, so rather than fit the scheme to player let's wait around for a player to fit the scheme. :loco:

I think it's best for us to ignore each other. Like I've done about 3 or 4 times before.

(In an attempt to clear it up a bit for you - not all "projects" are the same. Hope that helps.)

 
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JShare87 said:
Vincesanity said:
He doesn't run the offense, his decision making is subpar, he won't stay in the pocket, he has a small frame besides being short, the defense most similar to an NFL defense with NFL speed off the edge has whipped him 2 years in a row.

He has a bad ankle, separated should and fractured thumb right now which is why he's looked pedestrian the last 2 games. If he's that banged up now it could get ugly next year.
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Excellent decision making and stays in the pocket until it breaks down. I've been defending him on here since last year. People that don't like him never will. People like me see the good in his play and probably won't change. Andy brings up some great points and clearly watches his games. I've watched every single play since the Bama game last year. This season he is a completely different player. His numbers are better this year. Everyone said Bama was the closest NFL defense he would face and has torched them twice. Now all of the sudden LSU is the closest comparison to an NFL defense, why because they played JFF good 2 years in a row? Most teams in the SEC have great defenses and LSU is the only one to stop him.
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Excellent Decision making - umm no, its has decreased from last year. Kingsbury held him in check last year and it was the best thing for him, this year he missed more open guys, more redzone interception, 3rd & 1 lets throw it 30 yards.

Stay in the pocket until it breaks down - must be a joke right

Some of his numbers are slightly better this year but to me his decision making in on par with someone like Stafford right now and I'll gladly revisit that after a 16 game season.

LSU is the closest comparsion to what he'll face at the next level because they bring elite speed to the table. They cut down on his scrambles and force him to stay in the pocket and shockingly those were his worst games.

 
Rotoworld:

NFL.com's Albert Breer reports Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel hasn't requested an evaluation from the NFL Draft Advisory Board.
That could be taken as a sign that Manziel is pondering returning to A&M for his redshirt junior season, but as Breer points out, it could also mean that he's already made up his mind to go pro. The deadline for underclassmen to declare is January 15. We'd be very surprised if last year's Heisman Trophy winner decided to return to College Station. Manziel promises to be one of 2014's most divisive prospects, but will almost certainly be a first-round pick.

Source: Albert Breer on Twitter
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Rotoworld:

Fox Sports' Clay Travis said in a television segment Thursday that the Texans should select Texas A&M redshirt sophomore QB Johnny Manziel with the No. 1 pick.
In the link below, Travis discusses how history is repeating itself: In 2006, the Texans selected DE Mario Williams at No. 1 over Texas' Vince Young. This time around, DE Jadeveon Clowney and QB Teddy Bridgewater figure to complicate a heartwarming homecoming story. NFL analyst Peter Schrager responded to Travis' affinity for the Aggies' star by saying Manziel was "not an NFL player," obnoxious rhetoric that you should blame on the medium. Travis had the best line of the segment, calling Clowney "Albert Haynesworth with a better first step."

Source: YouTube.com
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NFL source cites influence of family among Manziel concernsBy Chase Goodbread

College Football 24/7 writer

Count "influence of family" among the concerns that at least one NFL player personnel director has about Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel. And count the same guy among the growing number of scouts who remain convinced that the Aggies' third-year sophomore will be a first-round pick anyway.

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram's Mac Engel wrote for his blog that the player personnel director had no concerns about Manziel's controversial offseason that included an NCAA investigation, his reported ousting from the Manning Passing Academy, and an appetite for partying. Nor was his size (6-1, 200 pounds) of concern, but rather "concern of whether Manziel can endure the NFL's 16-game schedule, the influence of Manziel's family," and (that) "this guy thinks he can do everything. He tries to do too much," he said. "He thinks he can do all of it. But he's special. I think he can play."

There isn't much to go on, at least in the public domain, about how much influence Manziel's family wields. In fact, about the only such account comes from the espn.com feature by Wright Thompson, published in July, which paints a picture suggesting the Manziel family has more influence with TAMU athletics than with Johnny Football himself. How much players are influenced by agents, entourages, wives and family, or anyone else whose advice might not always be sound is a common concern for NFL clubs.

But if Manziel has proven anything positive off the field in the last two years, it's that he is his own man and makes up his own mind.

Manziel has yet to declare his eligibility for the 2014 NFL Draft, but the announcement is expected and could come as soon as his postgame remarks after TAMU's Chick-fil-A Bowl appearance against Duke on New Year's Eve.

Follow Chase Goodbread on Twitter @ChaseGoodbread.
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Rotoworld:

NFL.com's Gil Brandt reports Texas A&M redshirt sophomores Johnny Manziel and Mike Evans will declare for the draft.

This is the least surprising announcement of the draft process, and both prospects could be top 20 selections. There are a number of teams that need quarterbacks at the top of the draft, but not every team will love Manziel's fit.


Source: Gil Brandt on Twitter
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The MMQB's Peter King hears Cleveland's front office "really likes" Texas A&M redshirt sophomore QB Johnny Manziel.

"...if they kept Chudzinski, they’d be asking him to develop the next quarterback, along with offensive coordinator Norv Turner," King writes. "What if there was a disconnect between the quarterback the front office wanted (I hear Cleveland really likes Johnny Manziel, who is not the Aikmanish pocket passer more to Turner’s liking..." It has been reported for quite some time that the Browns preferred the 2014 class over the 2013 class and have been doing plenty of homework on the available quarterbacks. We expect them to select one.


Source: The MMQB
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I know you're the Warrior but relax dude. It was just idle speculation. Take out Manziel and put in any QB from this draft. None of them fit real well with a Turner scheme.

 
Jayrok said:
If the Browns select Manziel, could he decide to return to A&M for another year?
Click to expand...
He officially loses eligibility to play college football once he signs with an agent, which will already happen months before the draft.

 
Hard to get a read on Johnny football. Just made one of the more unforgettable plays of the year in his bowl game, and still can't shake the feeling he'll bust at the next level. A little too much attitude, a little too much taking on defenders (will get him killed in the NFL), looks smallish.

NUmbers and wow plays say he should be great- but something still doesn't feel right about him.

 
No way he gets guys at the NFL level to follow him unless he is just lights out from the get go. He's got to much Diva in him.

 
Some team in the top 5 is going to be very lucky to have him fall in their lap if Houston doesn't pull the trigger at one.

 
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