Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Sinn Fein

How vulnerable is the US?

End of a dynasty  

145 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

Just reading the news the last few weeks, and it seems the world is even crazier than normal right now. There are significant regional skirmishes in Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Gaza, Middle East/Syria/Iraq, various hot spots in various lawless areas in Africa, a new Ebola outbreak, North Korea looking for attention, etc.

It got me wondering how vulnerable the US really is - not in a military sense, because I do not see any scenario where the US would be at risk militarily. But, when the US falls, I think it will be more likely the result of an economic collapse. And, if I had to guess, I would say that most, if not all, of our foreign and domestic policy choices are driven by the need to protect our economy.

Going back to the Iraq wars - most would now agree that these wars were about oil, more than any other reason, and I think the primary assumption is that we wanted to protect the free flow of oil into the world markets to keep oil prices low/stable. It seems, as a result there has been a lot of talk about reducing our dependence on oil, but for all of our innovation/brain power, we don't seem any closer to reducing our dependence on oil. That seems counter-intuitive that we could not make greater headway - unless we did not really want to move away from oil.

Certainly big-oil is a huge industry unto themselves, and the lobby power is significant. But what if, as others have suggested, the issue is not really our dependence on oil - which we have been "talking" about since the early '70s. Rather the issue is more primal in that OPEC primarily trades oil in US dollars. That alone, keeps the demand for US currency high, which allows the US Government to continue to issue bonds to fund our ever-increasing deficits. When OPEC decides to move off the US currency, it could have a significant impact on our economy.

There are only a few players in the world who can really make that happen: Iran - wielding undue influence over middle-eastern members, Russia - has enough economic and military clout to support friendly OPEC members who would vote to change currencies, China - has the economic clout (and enough future oil demand) to make it happen, Saudi Arabia - single largest contributor in oil production to OPEC.

When you look at our foreign policy decisions around these countries, we seem to be doing everything we can to keep them from forcing the switch. Our failed Iraq policy was designed to create a stronger (western-leaning) country to keep Iran in line in the Middle East; we seem to be tip-toeing around Russia's excursions into Ukraine, providing only a stern look, while imposing no real sanctions; and we seem to overlook any transgression that comes out of Saudi Arabia, from human rights issues, to funding terrorists.

I wonder how much our hands are tied in many of these situations by not wanting to upset one of the key players. If so, just how vulnerable are we to being economically blackmailed, or worse?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The U.S. is extremeley vulnerable. With just some wine coolers and several well placed compliments you could probably get the U.S. in the sack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Picture this...

Slowly, over the past decade or so, "terrorists" have been gradually moving into the US and taking root across the nation. Maybe 10,000? Maybe 20,000?

Now imagine a synchronized "awakening" one morning with thousands of mid-scale strikes (bombings, biochem, shooting sprees, etc) across the nation. Not just big cities but suburbs and even some rural areas. Followed by immediate militarization of all the embedded "terrorists".... forming teams and striking out against Citizens and various economic, military, and political institutions.

I'm HIGHLY skeptical of the ability to pull something off undetected... but what if they did? IMO it would be absolutely devastating to the US. We have shown that we struggle a bit in guerrilla style warfare in population dense areas. I'm not sure our military is built to respond appropriately to this type of threat.

Again, I'm not sure they could pull it off... but if they wanted to shatter the US economy and truly bring this nation to its knees... that would do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

We shall see, time to pay the fiddlaaaah.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

We shall see, time to pay the fiddlaaaah.....
Fiddler on the Roof was released in 1971.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Picture this...

Slowly, over the past decade or so, "terrorists" have been gradually moving into the US and taking root across the nation. Maybe 10,000? Maybe 20,000?

Now imagine a synchronized "awakening" one morning with thousands of mid-scale strikes (bombings, biochem, shooting sprees, etc) across the nation. Not just big cities but suburbs and even some rural areas. Followed by immediate militarization of all the embedded "terrorists".... forming teams and striking out against Citizens and various economic, military, and political institutions.

I'm HIGHLY skeptical of the ability to pull something off undetected... but what if they did? IMO it would be absolutely devastating to the US. We have shown that we struggle a bit in guerrilla style warfare in population dense areas. I'm not sure our military is built to respond appropriately to this type of threat.

Again, I'm not sure they could pull it off... but if they wanted to shatter the US economy and truly bring this nation to its knees... that would do it.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Dude...that would never happen. They would be able to get off their first attack and then everybody and their mother even remotely associated with terrorists, (I am talking even at the level of skin color) would be rounded up and put into internment camps. First off, our police are pretty much militarized now, so they have the equipment to deal with this, secondly I do not think you realize just how many people own guns in this country. It would get real ugly real quick. Next, you have to think about who would give clearance for an attack such as this. The people who live in middle eastern countries know that we would automatically destroy and then occupy any country that is even remotely connected to what you speak of.

In short, this would never happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.

What do I look like, an inferior decorator?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

And then 9-11 happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are vulnerable, not so much to direct attack, but economic subterfuge. The thing is most governments don't want the US to crumble. The international economy is so connected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If so, just how vulnerable are we to being economically blackmailed, or worse?

I voted 2, but probably a 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Picture this...

Slowly, over the past decade or so, "terrorists" have been gradually moving into the US and taking root across the nation. Maybe 10,000? Maybe 20,000?

Now imagine a synchronized "awakening" one morning with thousands of mid-scale strikes (bombings, biochem, shooting sprees, etc) across the nation. Not just big cities but suburbs and even some rural areas. Followed by immediate militarization of all the embedded "terrorists".... forming teams and striking out against Citizens and various economic, military, and political institutions.

I'm HIGHLY skeptical of the ability to pull something off undetected... but what if they did? IMO it would be absolutely devastating to the US. We have shown that we struggle a bit in guerrilla style warfare in population dense areas. I'm not sure our military is built to respond appropriately to this type of threat.

Again, I'm not sure they could pull it off... but if they wanted to shatter the US economy and truly bring this nation to its knees... that would do it.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Dude...that would never happen. They would be able to get off their first attack and then everybody and their mother even remotely associated with terrorists, (I am talking even at the level of skin color) would be rounded up and put into internment camps. First off, our police are pretty much militarized now, so they have the equipment to deal with this, secondly I do not think you realize just how many people own guns in this country. It would get real ugly real quick. Next, you have to think about who would give clearance for an attack such as this. The people who live in middle eastern countries know that we would automatically destroy and then occupy any country that is even remotely connected to what you speak of.

In short, this would never happen.

It makes for a great movie though. Don't destroy the creativity here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

And then 9-11 happened.

In 1971?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

And then 9-11 happened.

In 1971?

are you saying there wasn't a 9-11 in 1971??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

And then 9-11 happened.

In 1971?

are you saying there wasn't a 9-11 in 1971??
I went to a 7-11 in 1971.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Picture this...

Slowly, over the past decade or so, "terrorists" have been gradually moving into the US and taking root across the nation. Maybe 10,000? Maybe 20,000?

Now imagine a synchronized "awakening" one morning with thousands of mid-scale strikes (bombings, biochem, shooting sprees, etc) across the nation. Not just big cities but suburbs and even some rural areas. Followed by immediate militarization of all the embedded "terrorists".... forming teams and striking out against Citizens and various economic, military, and political institutions.

I'm HIGHLY skeptical of the ability to pull something off undetected... but what if they did? IMO it would be absolutely devastating to the US. We have shown that we struggle a bit in guerrilla style warfare in population dense areas. I'm not sure our military is built to respond appropriately to this type of threat.

Again, I'm not sure they could pull it off... but if they wanted to shatter the US economy and truly bring this nation to its knees... that would do it.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Dude...that would never happen. They would be able to get off their first attack and then everybody and their mother even remotely associated with terrorists, (I am talking even at the level of skin color) would be rounded up and put into internment camps. First off, our police are pretty much militarized now, so they have the equipment to deal with this, secondly I do not think you realize just how many people own guns in this country. It would get real ugly real quick. Next, you have to think about who would give clearance for an attack such as this. The people who live in middle eastern countries know that we would automatically destroy and then occupy any country that is even remotely connected to what you speak of.

In short, this would never happen.

I think I made it pretty clear that this was highly doubtful that it could be pulled off... but I wanted to address a few things:

1) "first attack then in camps" - Let's say it's 10,000 guys in ~1000 cells. 1000 individual attacks ranging from small scale biochem / bombings with a couple mid-scale attacks thrown in for good measure. That alone would cripple the economy (which is already in a tenuous position).

2) "Police are militarized and can deal with this" - Response to the initial wave of attacks would completely overwhelm police/fire units and guard deployment would be tied up in placating the masses, fighting looting, and abating civil unrest. The attackers would need 1-2 days to reset for another wave of attacks or to rendezvous at footholds to begin insurgent-style attacks ala middle east style.

3) "who would give clearance" Al Qaeda and it's affiliates are not tied to any particular nation/state and benefit from destabilization of traditional political powers in the mid-east. As we learned post 9/11... retaliation against a country does little to nothing to actually counter a strike like this.

4) "People have guns" I agree here that civilians would be a reasonable deterrent and force of suppression in this case... however disorganized individuals with lack of any real intel would be less effective than you might think against a reasonably well coordinated attack.

Bottom line: They wouldn't need to "take over" America to achieve the objective. That's crazy to think that could be achieved on any reasonable level. However, even dozens if not hundreds of coordinated micro-strikes would cripple us from a resource/economic perspective. Anything achieved via the secondary wave would be gravy, IMO.

With thousands of micro-cells the scale of operations would be below the radar compared to mass scale attacks... yet each of these cells would be able to inflict significant human and infrastructure damage. Would they all be successful? Of course not. But with the "drug pipeline approach", even at a 50-75% success rate, you're having significant success.

There are currently 3MM muslims legally living in the US... (about 25% are of arab decent). I am NOT implying that muslim = terrorist... but let's assume a radicalization rate of only 1%. That's about 30k individuals. That's not even counting what are likely hundreds if not thousands of shady guys already here illegally. If 1% seems high, note that one study found that ~7% of muslim's globally are considered "radicals" due to finding the 9/11 attacks "completely justified". Factor in the likely higher rate in the US due to it being the primary target (large numbers likely enter illegally with express purpose of harm).

The biggest challenge would be communication between the cells. However with TOR / Darkweb / IM Clients (Kik, etc) and advances in encryption... there are simply too many channels for the NSA et al to effectively monitor.

Again... I think something like this is highly unlikely. But if I were spearheading this sort of thing, that would be the approach I would take.

DISCLAIMER TO NSA: Hai! :bye: I'm not a terrorist strategerizer... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Picture this...

Slowly, over the past decade or so, "terrorists" have been gradually moving into the US and taking root across the nation. Maybe 10,000? Maybe 20,000?

Now imagine a synchronized "awakening" one morning with thousands of mid-scale strikes (bombings, biochem, shooting sprees, etc) across the nation. Not just big cities but suburbs and even some rural areas. Followed by immediate militarization of all the embedded "terrorists".... forming teams and striking out against Citizens and various economic, military, and political institutions.

I'm HIGHLY skeptical of the ability to pull something off undetected... but what if they did? IMO it would be absolutely devastating to the US. We have shown that we struggle a bit in guerrilla style warfare in population dense areas. I'm not sure our military is built to respond appropriately to this type of threat.

Again, I'm not sure they could pull it off... but if they wanted to shatter the US economy and truly bring this nation to its knees... that would do it.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Dude...that would never happen. They would be able to get off their first attack and then everybody and their mother even remotely associated with terrorists, (I am talking even at the level of skin color) would be rounded up and put into internment camps.

FREEDOM! #### yea!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

And then 9-11 happened.

In 1971?

Yes, nothing to see here timmy, by all means keep your head into the sand. Its just coincidence the world and its problems are lining up perfectly with the bible and end times prophesy....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

And then 9-11 happened.

In 1971?

Yes, nothing to see here timmy, by all means keep your head into the sand. Its just coincidence the world and its problems are lining up perfectly with the bible and end times prophesy....
Jesus Christ Superstar, the movie, was released in 1971.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I voted 7 out of 10. Given the long term demographic, political, and economic trends I think that in 100 years time the United States as we know it will be unrecognizable and quite possibly fractured along ethnic and regional lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I voted 7. I don’t know that it would happen the way icon stated, but anyone that thinks we are sitting at anything less than a 5 is delusional IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

And then 9-11 happened.

In 1971?

are you saying there wasn't a 9-11 in 1971??

do they have a 4th of July in England?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm 100% certain that we are all going to die.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

What does not knowing how to spell atheists have to do with anything?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would you ####ers stop giving them ideas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The greatest threat to America is Americans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Picture this...

Slowly, over the past decade or so, "terrorists" have been gradually moving into the US and taking root across the nation. Maybe 10,000? Maybe 20,000?

Now imagine a synchronized "awakening" one morning with thousands of mid-scale strikes (bombings, biochem, shooting sprees, etc) across the nation. Not just big cities but suburbs and even some rural areas. Followed by immediate militarization of all the embedded "terrorists".... forming teams and striking out against Citizens and various economic, military, and political institutions.

I'm HIGHLY skeptical of the ability to pull something off undetected... but what if they did? IMO it would be absolutely devastating to the US. We have shown that we struggle a bit in guerrilla style warfare in population dense areas. I'm not sure our military is built to respond appropriately to this type of threat.

Again, I'm not sure they could pull it off... but if they wanted to shatter the US economy and truly bring this nation to its knees... that would do it.

a couple of years ago there was problem with the drinking water in the greater Boston area for about 3 days. The panic that ensued was crazy. On a larger scale it would be devastating

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would you ####ers stop giving them ideas?

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

What does not knowing how to spell atheists have to do with anything?

Yes my fingers were going too fast and i dont proof read posts on a football message board. I would definitely disregard any post since i wasnt even close to typing the word correctly :mellow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

And then 9-11 happened.

In 1971?

Archie Bunker was a visionary. :shrug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

What does not knowing how to spell atheists have to do with anything?

Yes my fingers were going too fast and i dont proof read posts on a football message board. I would definitely disregard any post since i wasnt even close to typing the word correctly :mellow:

that's just another reason to disregard your posts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

And then 9-11 happened.

In 1971?

Archie Bunker was a visionary. :shrug:

California is the home of where is gonna occur the world's worst cat-a-strofe....sittin' on a shelf out there.....3 states on that shelf, California, Oregon & Missouri. The day of the biggest earthquake....those 3 states are gonna be shoved right offa that shelf there. They call that the "Continental Divide." The Pope knew about this years ago. He said it was St. Andrew's fault.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For some reason I think about how I would do things if I was a terrorist from time to time. When I lived in St. Louis, I always thought about how a series of van bombs on the major bridges could do a great deal to shut the city down and a lot of traffic across the country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The USA is not eternal. It will end eventually. I believe it will end without the "firing of a single bullet" (use of quotes to avoid literal interpretation). I also believe it is higly likely to happen in my lifetime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The USA is not eternal. It will end eventually. I believe it will end without the "firing of a single bullet" (use of quotes to avoid literal interpretation). I also believe it is higly likely to happen in my lifetime.

Well Vulcans do live for a very long time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

Archie Bunker said the exact same thing in 1971.

And then 9-11 happened.

In 1971?

Archie Bunker was a visionary. :shrug:

Yes he was . Case closed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

America's good for several more centuries, guys. There is not a single problem we have right now that isn't solvable, and not a single threat we face that can't be dealt with. Don't let the gloom and doomers get you down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

America's good for several more centuries, guys. There is not a single problem we have right now that isn't solvable, and not a single threat we face that can't be dealt with. Don't let the gloom and doomers get you down.

:popcorn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

America's good for several more centuries, guys. There is not a single problem we have right now that isn't solvable, and not a single threat we face that can't be dealt with. Don't let the gloom and doomers get you down.

Says the guy who less than 12 hours ago posted this:

And I'm not nearly that smart, guys. I don't know #### about economics, (though I'd like to learn).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

America's good for several more centuries, guys. There is not a single problem we have right now that isn't solvable, and not a single threat we face that can't be dealt with. Don't let the gloom and doomers get you down.

What do you think happens when OPEC drops the US dollar as the trading currency for oil?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, the US is extremely vulnerable. However, just about everyone else is an even easier target.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The US has sealed its fate. I know all the open minded, liberal athiests dont want to hear it but im just sitting back waiting for the fireworks.....

What does not knowing how to spell atheists have to do with anything?

Yes my fingers were going too fast and i dont proof read posts on a football message board. I would definitely disregard any post since i wasnt even close to typing the word correctly :mellow:

that's just another reason to disregard your posts

Thats fair considering i always do that with your drivel....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

America's good for several more centuries, guys. There is not a single problem we have right now that isn't solvable, and not a single threat we face that can't be dealt with. Don't let the gloom and doomers get you down.

Says the guy who less than 12 hours ago posted this:

And I'm not nearly that smart, guys. I don't know #### about economics, (though I'd like to learn).

Hmmmm....I thought the government shutdown was going to doom us. What about if the tea party takes over, then we are all doomed. Probably be under 100 feet of water from the lack of an agressive global warming plan. For a non-doom and gloom guy, Tim spews a lot of doom and gloom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The U.S. is extremeley vulnerable. With just some wine coolers and several well placed compliments you could probably get the U.S. in the sack.

#YesAllAmericans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.