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WR Kevin White, NO (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
I don't think Cooks is in Kevin White's league. Cooks is a better prospect than Cooper though, imo.
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cstu
Footballguy
I have a hard time getting over just one year of production in the WVU. That offense made Tavon and Bailey look like studs. Obviously White has some special physical ability (size, speed) to go along with strong hands, but it's still concerning.
Add in his age and I feel like he's being made into something he's not. I don't see him as a 'bust' per se but I don't think he'll live up to the expectations of the 7th player in the draft.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
The draft is all about projection.
As for Perriman, you feel free to bet on a guy with shaky hands to improve them in the NFL. I'll bet that a guy coming from JUCO can refine his routes so that his athleticism shines through before AND after the catch.
And if you don't think your last point is an important factor in any prospect's success, you're crazy. That's part of the reason, besides talent level, that players drafted higher generally have higher success rates. They get the opportunities, and that's important.
cstu
Footballguy
I do have White ahead of Perriman, but it comes down to the value you could get in trade vs. actually taking White with a top 4 pick.
thunderguns
Footballguy
Lmao at all these guys concerned about his "age" at 22. He is 22. Twenty two.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Oh, I agree with that. If you can get someone you feel is more proven, more talented, more productive, etc. and you have questions, then do it. I also would have traded White for Cooks if possible, I think, for what it's worth. Traded 1.06, 1.011, etc. for Cooks in another league, for example.
EBF
Footballguy
It reminds me of the saying, "Don't let perfect by the enemy of good."
You can go back and look at almost any eventual stud WR and find some kind of a flaw.
Boldin had slow 40 times.
Julio had modest college stats.
Dez was a headcase.
Beckham was too small.
VJax played at a small school.
Demaryius was a one year wonder.
If you wait for the perfect prospect, you'll be waiting forever.
Sure, it would be great if White were 20 years old coming off three straight 1000+ yard seasons.
It's not that clean though. He went the JC route. Had a shortened college career by default.
Personally, I'm convinced by what I saw last year. I think he's actually one of the safest prospects in the draft.
Not much to nitpick really. Checks every box physically, had outstanding production, looks the part on the field, and was drafted accordingly.
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Xue
Footballguy
Because guys with bad hands get benched! The guy Perriman is replacing has horrible hands.
Perriman will get no less opportunity than White. Steve Smith is getting old and there is no one else in that WR corps to steal targets from Perriman. White has to battle Jeffery, and I have strong feeling he isn't very likely to be better than Jeffery.
Xue
Footballguy
What's funnier is that you have no clue what we are talking about, yet so quick to dismiss it.
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Perriman won't get endless opportunities to drop the ball, if that's what he does. Realistic best case, do you really want Torrey Smith 2.0, is that your goal with a 1st round rookie pick, even if it costs less than White at a higher pick? You're giving short-term reasons or prefer Perriman at a lower cost, but I'm not seeing the long-term value there. Jeffery is very good, that won't stop White from becoming whatever it is he'll become.
Xue
Footballguy
According to the efficient market of the NFL draft, Perriman is better than Torrey. Torrey would be his worst case, not best.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
thunderguns
Footballguy
Xue
Footballguy
Yes, and White's worst case is a lot less than Julio, Fitz, and Hopkins. But we're ready to oversell White because we think he's a stud.
Tony Soprano
Footballguy
I own the 1.03 and 1.04 in an upcoming draft and I am ecstatic to more than likely "settle" for White at that spot.
At first blush looking at the stats, I was concerned as well with the "one hit wonder" thing.
Then I watched tape on him. And saw what he did against some pretty good defenses chock full of former 5* high school DBs (Alabama, Oklahoma, etc). He was a man amongst boys at the collegiate level in 2014. And I think he's just scratching the surface of what he can become.
If you have the 1.04 and he's still available, I think it's a no brainer pick.
At first blush looking at the stats, I was concerned as well with the "one hit wonder" thing.
Then I watched tape on him. And saw what he did against some pretty good defenses chock full of former 5* high school DBs (Alabama, Oklahoma, etc). He was a man amongst boys at the collegiate level in 2014. And I think he's just scratching the surface of what he can become.
If you have the 1.04 and he's still available, I think it's a no brainer pick.
Xue
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Not to jump into the middle of this but I'd be interested to see if you could list the reasons why his age bothers people. The way you phrased your initial post made it sound like you were assuming it bothered them for different reasons than it actually does.
VarsityBlues123
Footballguy
24 would not be accurate at all.cstu said:
georg013
Footballguy
Last I remember everyone was knocking him because he was so old. Articles were written about how he was a late bloomer. A few guys in here knocked him down because of it. They swore by Wikipedia. Now that angle has disappeared. Does this make him more worthy of consideration since we know he isnt an early retirement candidate (24 years old)?
mikmak8902
Footballguy
But it's how old Russell Wilson was as a rookie at a much slower developing position. And yet, he's fairly productive. Why again are we splitting hairs with a 21/22 year old rookie WR?
Xue
Footballguy
Two people who seem to know him very well wished him 22nd birthday last year already. One of them is his cousin apparently, and the other is one of the same for his 21st birthday I posted previously.
https://twitter.com/lidihateyou/status/481813433655230465
https://twitter.com/fall_O_theLiter/status/481839444803461120
These same two wishing him his 21st:
https://twitter.com/lidihateyou/status/349380716984926208
https://twitter.com/fall_O_theLiter/status/349378956283228162
https://twitter.com/lidihateyou/status/481813433655230465
https://twitter.com/fall_O_theLiter/status/481839444803461120
These same two wishing him his 21st:
https://twitter.com/lidihateyou/status/349380716984926208
https://twitter.com/fall_O_theLiter/status/349378956283228162
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Yup he's turning 23 this June.
http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/11/19/kevin-white-west-virginia-mountaineers
Xue
Footballguy
2 more articles from this year citing White as 22. One of them is a local paper where he played in HS.
http://www.mcall.com/sports/mc-kevin-white-emmaus-nfl-draft-20150430-story.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2015/04/29/kevin-white-west-virginia-lackawanna/26607727/
http://www.mcall.com/sports/mc-kevin-white-emmaus-nfl-draft-20150430-story.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2015/04/29/kevin-white-west-virginia-lackawanna/26607727/
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I do think breaking out at an early age has some predictive value. I also think Kevin White, being a JUCO transfer, might be a fairly obvious exception.
I also think that if White improves his route running and proves that the strengths he already has will translate, no one will care that he's not as young as Mike Evans or even Amari Cooper were as rookies.
A Bears coach recently said that they have certain body movements they look for on tape to tell whether a WR will be able to run the full route tree. White obviously did. We'll see.
I also think that if White improves his route running and proves that the strengths he already has will translate, no one will care that he's not as young as Mike Evans or even Amari Cooper were as rookies.
A Bears coach recently said that they have certain body movements they look for on tape to tell whether a WR will be able to run the full route tree. White obviously did. We'll see.
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
He's on Twitter, just ask him.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
And this is where the rubber hits the road. I am now a White owner and reading the loved feast is fun, but are there any recent examples of players that successfully transitioned to the NFL with as little experience as White? In that respect I associate him with Corelle Patterson--not in terms of style of play, but in lack of playing experience. Lots of the same things were being said about him. Can someone site a player that had NFL success with as little experience as White?
The other issue I have in this thread when I hear "he can learn some skill with coaching." This assumes the player did not get any coaching at his college. This is flat out wrong. Every major college program has a WR coach, even two, that are very capable.
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Patterson did even less, in terms of routes run, than White and lived almost completely off his reputation after the catch, of which he had less than 50, and had trouble with his hands, period. He was also an excellent returner.
White caught over 100 balls his final season, tons of them downfield. He has very good hands, good contested catch ability, good (but not Patterson level) RAC ability.
Really his only question mark is routes.
College offenses ask certain players to run certain routes. White was not asked to run certain routes at WVU, and Bears coaches have specifically said they saw everything they needed to on White's tape to show them that he was capable of running the full route tree once he learns.
If you think all college programs have WR coaches that teach the entire route tree, I don't know what to tell you. They are not trying to prepare these guys for NFL success, they're teaching them what they need to know to succeed in their particular offense, and that's it.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
You are confusing what I said. Let me clarify, I only bring up Cord Patterson's name because like White he was a Jucco transfer that had enough success in his limited playing time to capture the attention of NFL scouts. He did not have an extensive college career, just like White. And just like White he went early in dyno drafts. That is the only comparison I was making. Again, can someone point to a player that has had success in the NFL who had a limited playing career in college?
As far as the college WR coaches point, my point was they are all teaching foot work and release techniques. Trust me, I have coached and right now have one of my kids at Cal. I know what is being coached. How this relates to White is when people find holes in his game and excuse them by saying he will get coated up in the NFL. He was already getting coached up at WV.
I don't mean to sound like a hater, but I have some serious skepticism, thus the question.
Xue
Footballguy
Xue
Footballguy
If White is going to get better, he needs to coach himself up. His own teammate, Mario Alford, was a JUCO guy as well and didn't have a problem running routes.
