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*Official 2015 Philadelphia Eagles* - Winning when it doesnt count (5 Viewers)

Maggot Brain said:
What was interesting about it? Guy got screwed out of ten million and his only compensation was he got to pick where he wants to play. Chip chose Philadelphia over Cleveland. I'm sure most players have preferences of where they want to play. I know I would. Problem with a draft is players have little to no choice.
Wow, now even the word 'interesting' causes grief?
:lmao: the off-season is looooooong
I thought it was interesting. It makes me feel a bit better that we didn't get him knowing we maybe never had a shot in the first place. I'm mad we didn't at least get a shot to bring him in.... but its comforting thinking maybe we were eliminated day 1 and there's nothing Chip could have done about it.

 
If you take him at his word, Collins was clear in his intro press conference, that his agent and team did a thorough analysis of all teams and came up with Dallas - all related to situation, not pitches from teams.

 
Big rule change today. 33 Yarder for an extra point is crazy. For us, this may mean:

1: Chip goes for 2 almost every TD. Back to his ways at Oregon.
2: Tebow just earned his roster spot.

 
Does moving it back really change the % that much? Don't have the numbers, I'd imagine the success rate of 33 TD FG's is pretty high.

 
Does moving it back really change the % that much? Don't have the numbers, I'd imagine the success rate of 33 TD FG's is pretty high.
It drops from 99% to 93%.

See http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/19/8606641/nfl-rule-changes-extra-point-2-point-conversion-approved
Should be a bit better than that, as FGs can be from either hash with less error margin, but XPs will be from right in front. This new rule doesn't change much IMO.

Would like to see the stats on goal to go plays from the 2 for comparison. Expected point value of the XP kick would be about .95 or so, I think the 2pt tries will still be not too common due to the risk of going 0/3 or 1/4 and ending up needing an extra score. Not sure what the best thing is here but not in favour of overly weighting a very small number of plays over the course of the game in determining the outcome.

 
The Eagles version of the rule proposal was the only one that would have really changed things (for the Eagles, obviously, but other teams, too.) But this rule change doesn't do anything except create a few more missed XPs. When you take into account the risk that the other team ca get 2 points on a turnover, teams are going to just take the XP try, when it's not a normal 2-point conversion opportunity.

 
Does moving it back really change the % that much? Don't have the numbers, I'd imagine the success rate of 33 TD FG's is pretty high.
It drops from 99% to 93%.

See http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/19/8606641/nfl-rule-changes-extra-point-2-point-conversion-approved
Should be a bit better than that, as FGs can be from either hash with less error margin, but XPs will be from right in front. This new rule doesn't change much IMO.

Would like to see the stats on goal to go plays from the 2 for comparison. Expected point value of the XP kick would be about .95 or so, I think the 2pt tries will still be not too common due to the risk of going 0/3 or 1/4 and ending up needing an extra score. Not sure what the best thing is here but not in favour of overly weighting a very small number of plays over the course of the game in determining the outcome.
I'm not sure I agree 100% that it doesn't change much. Moving it back ALSO means that the angle of the kick is much smaller, meaning a lower kick, meaning a higher percentage chance of blocking an extra point. This definitely adds some intrigue. I have always hated when there is not much time left, a team scores, and the extra point is for the tie - and there's no real chance to block that kick. Or if it is for the win, now you have the possibility of blocking the kick, and RETURNING it to win the game. If a team gets a block or two, you might see teams going against them go for two, just to have the option to 'slide' or something, and play for overtime if there is nobody open or no gap to run in.

Too bad they didn't move it to the 1 yard line, but that would have been an obviously Eagle-favoring move.

 
Does moving it back really change the % that much? Don't have the numbers, I'd imagine the success rate of 33 TD FG's is pretty high.
It drops from 99% to 93%.

See http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/19/8606641/nfl-rule-changes-extra-point-2-point-conversion-approved
Should be a bit better than that, as FGs can be from either hash with less error margin, but XPs will be from right in front. This new rule doesn't change much IMO.

Would like to see the stats on goal to go plays from the 2 for comparison. Expected point value of the XP kick would be about .95 or so, I think the 2pt tries will still be not too common due to the risk of going 0/3 or 1/4 and ending up needing an extra score. Not sure what the best thing is here but not in favour of overly weighting a very small number of plays over the course of the game in determining the outcome.
While we are discussing this in the Eagles thread, it does slightly change based on your coach. If you calculate the .95 per XP attempt, to likely be about the same as a 2 pointer, would that affect us more then other teams? It's no secret at all that Chip loves going for 2. Hell, he'd go for 2 in college after his first td almost every time.

He hasn't much in the NFL as he is smart and adjusting, but if the gap DOES shrink between a 1 and 2 point attempt, and if it's arguably a toss up, don't you think if any NFL coach does it, that it will be Chip? Wonder if we lead the league in 2 point attempts next year. Especially if we keep TT.

 
Does moving it back really change the % that much? Don't have the numbers, I'd imagine the success rate of 33 TD FG's is pretty high.
It drops from 99% to 93%.

See http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/19/8606641/nfl-rule-changes-extra-point-2-point-conversion-approved
Should be a bit better than that, as FGs can be from either hash with less error margin, but XPs will be from right in front. This new rule doesn't change much IMO.

Would like to see the stats on goal to go plays from the 2 for comparison. Expected point value of the XP kick would be about .95 or so, I think the 2pt tries will still be not too common due to the risk of going 0/3 or 1/4 and ending up needing an extra score. Not sure what the best thing is here but not in favour of overly weighting a very small number of plays over the course of the game in determining the outcome.
While we are discussing this in the Eagles thread, it does slightly change based on your coach. If you calculate the .95 per XP attempt, to likely be about the same as a 2 pointer, would that affect us more then other teams? It's no secret at all that Chip loves going for 2. Hell, he'd go for 2 in college after his first td almost every time.

He hasn't much in the NFL as he is smart and adjusting, but if the gap DOES shrink between a 1 and 2 point attempt, and if it's arguably a toss up, don't you think if any NFL coach does it, that it will be Chip? Wonder if we lead the league in 2 point attempts next year. Especially if we keep TT.
To look at it from a game theory point of view, high variance strategies like this are more appealing to bad teams than good ones, since the good teams don't have to take as many risks to win. Having different yard start points also takes the surprise element out of play though which is disappointing.

That said, it does seem like the kind of thing Chip would like to do if he thinks the odds favour it, regardless of the conventional wisdom. Like running on 3rd and 3.

I'd like to see the idea of no kicking after a TD, just a football play. From the 1 yard line for 1pt, from the 2 for 2. A 33yd FG is still basically automatic, all this new rule does is eliminate the surprise 2pt play.

Edit: If Chip thinks he can do something play or personnel wise that gives him a 60% chance of converting rather than 50% he might do it regularly.

Also I think we need to be wary of projecting any coach's college behaviour to the NFL. NFL games are harder to win, and you don't need to run up the score to boost your ranking.

 
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Does moving it back really change the % that much? Don't have the numbers, I'd imagine the success rate of 33 TD FG's is pretty high.
It drops from 99% to 93%.

See http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/19/8606641/nfl-rule-changes-extra-point-2-point-conversion-approved
Should be a bit better than that, as FGs can be from either hash with less error margin, but XPs will be from right in front. This new rule doesn't change much IMO.

Would like to see the stats on goal to go plays from the 2 for comparison. Expected point value of the XP kick would be about .95 or so, I think the 2pt tries will still be not too common due to the risk of going 0/3 or 1/4 and ending up needing an extra score. Not sure what the best thing is here but not in favour of overly weighting a very small number of plays over the course of the game in determining the outcome.
While we are discussing this in the Eagles thread, it does slightly change based on your coach. If you calculate the .95 per XP attempt, to likely be about the same as a 2 pointer, would that affect us more then other teams? It's no secret at all that Chip loves going for 2. Hell, he'd go for 2 in college after his first td almost every time.

He hasn't much in the NFL as he is smart and adjusting, but if the gap DOES shrink between a 1 and 2 point attempt, and if it's arguably a toss up, don't you think if any NFL coach does it, that it will be Chip? Wonder if we lead the league in 2 point attempts next year. Especially if we keep TT.
To look at it from a game theory point of view, high variance strategies like this are more appealing to bad teams than good ones, since the good teams don't have to take as many risks to win. Having different yard start points also takes the surprise element out of play though which is disappointing.

That said, it does seem like the kind of thing Chip would like to do if he thinks the odds favour it, regardless of the conventional wisdom. Like running on 3rd and 3.

I'd like to see the idea of no kicking after a TD, just a football play. From the 1 yard line for 1pt, from the 2 for 2. A 33yd FG is still basically automatic, all this new rule does is eliminate the surprise 2pt play.

Edit: If Chip thinks he can do something play or personnel wise that gives him a 60% chance of converting rather than 50% he might do it regularly.

Also I think we need to be wary of projecting any coach's college behaviour to the NFL. NFL games are harder to win, and you don't need to run up the score to boost your ranking.
93% is not basically automatic. 99.5% or whatever it was before was.

 
Does moving it back really change the % that much? Don't have the numbers, I'd imagine the success rate of 33 TD FG's is pretty high.
It drops from 99% to 93%.

See http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/19/8606641/nfl-rule-changes-extra-point-2-point-conversion-approved
Should be a bit better than that, as FGs can be from either hash with less error margin, but XPs will be from right in front. This new rule doesn't change much IMO.

Would like to see the stats on goal to go plays from the 2 for comparison. Expected point value of the XP kick would be about .95 or so, I think the 2pt tries will still be not too common due to the risk of going 0/3 or 1/4 and ending up needing an extra score. Not sure what the best thing is here but not in favour of overly weighting a very small number of plays over the course of the game in determining the outcome.
While we are discussing this in the Eagles thread, it does slightly change based on your coach. If you calculate the .95 per XP attempt, to likely be about the same as a 2 pointer, would that affect us more then other teams? It's no secret at all that Chip loves going for 2. Hell, he'd go for 2 in college after his first td almost every time.

He hasn't much in the NFL as he is smart and adjusting, but if the gap DOES shrink between a 1 and 2 point attempt, and if it's arguably a toss up, don't you think if any NFL coach does it, that it will be Chip? Wonder if we lead the league in 2 point attempts next year. Especially if we keep TT.
To look at it from a game theory point of view, high variance strategies like this are more appealing to bad teams than good ones, since the good teams don't have to take as many risks to win. Having different yard start points also takes the surprise element out of play though which is disappointing.

That said, it does seem like the kind of thing Chip would like to do if he thinks the odds favour it, regardless of the conventional wisdom. Like running on 3rd and 3.

I'd like to see the idea of no kicking after a TD, just a football play. From the 1 yard line for 1pt, from the 2 for 2. A 33yd FG is still basically automatic, all this new rule does is eliminate the surprise 2pt play.

Edit: If Chip thinks he can do something play or personnel wise that gives him a 60% chance of converting rather than 50% he might do it regularly.

Also I think we need to be wary of projecting any coach's college behaviour to the NFL. NFL games are harder to win, and you don't need to run up the score to boost your ranking.
93% is not basically automatic. 99.5% or whatever it was before was.
Agreed and that goes double when you start to factor in weather. As a fan the rule is a nice change but if I were a NY team or NE it would kind of suck

The Tebow stuff needs to slow down too. IF he makes the team he'll be the 3rd QB and just like every 3rd QB he'll be inactive on just about every Sunday.

 
any thoughts on DeVante Davis among Eagles fans? Seems his draft slot is all over the place. 3rd round in some leagues, 5th or 6th in others. Granted, he was undrafted, but he seems to fit well with what Chip wants to do and how hard can it be to beat Cooper for a job?

 
Does moving it back really change the % that much? Don't have the numbers, I'd imagine the success rate of 33 TD FG's is pretty high.
It drops from 99% to 93%.

See http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/19/8606641/nfl-rule-changes-extra-point-2-point-conversion-approved
Should be a bit better than that, as FGs can be from either hash with less error margin, but XPs will be from right in front. This new rule doesn't change much IMO.

Would like to see the stats on goal to go plays from the 2 for comparison. Expected point value of the XP kick would be about .95 or so, I think the 2pt tries will still be not too common due to the risk of going 0/3 or 1/4 and ending up needing an extra score. Not sure what the best thing is here but not in favour of overly weighting a very small number of plays over the course of the game in determining the outcome.
While we are discussing this in the Eagles thread, it does slightly change based on your coach. If you calculate the .95 per XP attempt, to likely be about the same as a 2 pointer, would that affect us more then other teams? It's no secret at all that Chip loves going for 2. Hell, he'd go for 2 in college after his first td almost every time.

He hasn't much in the NFL as he is smart and adjusting, but if the gap DOES shrink between a 1 and 2 point attempt, and if it's arguably a toss up, don't you think if any NFL coach does it, that it will be Chip? Wonder if we lead the league in 2 point attempts next year. Especially if we keep TT.
To look at it from a game theory point of view, high variance strategies like this are more appealing to bad teams than good ones, since the good teams don't have to take as many risks to win. Having different yard start points also takes the surprise element out of play though which is disappointing.

That said, it does seem like the kind of thing Chip would like to do if he thinks the odds favour it, regardless of the conventional wisdom. Like running on 3rd and 3.

I'd like to see the idea of no kicking after a TD, just a football play. From the 1 yard line for 1pt, from the 2 for 2. A 33yd FG is still basically automatic, all this new rule does is eliminate the surprise 2pt play.

Edit: If Chip thinks he can do something play or personnel wise that gives him a 60% chance of converting rather than 50% he might do it regularly.

Also I think we need to be wary of projecting any coach's college behaviour to the NFL. NFL games are harder to win, and you don't need to run up the score to boost your ranking.
93% is not basically automatic. 99.5% or whatever it was before was.
Agreed and that goes double when you start to factor in weather. As a fan the rule is a nice change but if I were a NY team or NE it would kind of suck

The Tebow stuff needs to slow down too. IF he makes the team he'll be the 3rd QB and just like every 3rd QB he'll be inactive on just about every Sunday.
Thing is, both teams are kicking under the same conditions when they come to NY. Shouldn't be a disadvantage to the home team.

If anything it might be an advantage to those cold weather teams, as they will be used to kicking in the cold more so then a team from Florida or California might be.

 
If Cooper is cut, even post June 1, we will still get hit with 3.8M dead money. As much as it might suck, he's gonna be here this year.

 
Does moving it back really change the % that much? Don't have the numbers, I'd imagine the success rate of 33 TD FG's is pretty high.
It drops from 99% to 93%.

See http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/19/8606641/nfl-rule-changes-extra-point-2-point-conversion-approved
Should be a bit better than that, as FGs can be from either hash with less error margin, but XPs will be from right in front. This new rule doesn't change much IMO.

Would like to see the stats on goal to go plays from the 2 for comparison. Expected point value of the XP kick would be about .95 or so, I think the 2pt tries will still be not too common due to the risk of going 0/3 or 1/4 and ending up needing an extra score. Not sure what the best thing is here but not in favour of overly weighting a very small number of plays over the course of the game in determining the outcome.
While we are discussing this in the Eagles thread, it does slightly change based on your coach. If you calculate the .95 per XP attempt, to likely be about the same as a 2 pointer, would that affect us more then other teams? It's no secret at all that Chip loves going for 2. Hell, he'd go for 2 in college after his first td almost every time.

He hasn't much in the NFL as he is smart and adjusting, but if the gap DOES shrink between a 1 and 2 point attempt, and if it's arguably a toss up, don't you think if any NFL coach does it, that it will be Chip? Wonder if we lead the league in 2 point attempts next year. Especially if we keep TT.
To look at it from a game theory point of view, high variance strategies like this are more appealing to bad teams than good ones, since the good teams don't have to take as many risks to win. Having different yard start points also takes the surprise element out of play though which is disappointing.

That said, it does seem like the kind of thing Chip would like to do if he thinks the odds favour it, regardless of the conventional wisdom. Like running on 3rd and 3.

I'd like to see the idea of no kicking after a TD, just a football play. From the 1 yard line for 1pt, from the 2 for 2. A 33yd FG is still basically automatic, all this new rule does is eliminate the surprise 2pt play.

Edit: If Chip thinks he can do something play or personnel wise that gives him a 60% chance of converting rather than 50% he might do it regularly.

Also I think we need to be wary of projecting any coach's college behaviour to the NFL. NFL games are harder to win, and you don't need to run up the score to boost your ranking.
93% is not basically automatic. 99.5% or whatever it was before was.
Agreed and that goes double when you start to factor in weather. As a fan the rule is a nice change but if I were a NY team or NE it would kind of suck

The Tebow stuff needs to slow down too. IF he makes the team he'll be the 3rd QB and just like every 3rd QB he'll be inactive on just about every Sunday.
Didn't they change that rule somewhat?

ETA: It used to be an inactive QB could dress and enter the game in the fourth qtr, but if forced to enter the game earlier than the fourth qtr, neither of the first two QBs were allowed to return. IE: The third QB dressed and could actually play in an emergency without counting against the game day roster total. This rule is gone now I think, and teams simply dress him and count him or not just like any other player. Since that change, teams have been all over the map on whether or not they dress a third QB, and a few teams have only carried 2 QBs on the active roster period.

 
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If Cooper is cut, even post June 1, we will still get hit with 3.8M dead money. As much as it might suck, he's gonna be here this year.
Why do people hate this guy (as a player)? He's a huge physical run blocking WR who appears to have improved as a receiver.

I get that he's not going to win a foot race but as a run first guy, I'd find a spot for him.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Terpman22 said:
If Cooper is cut, even post June 1, we will still get hit with 3.8M dead money. As much as it might suck, he's gonna be here this year.
Why do people hate this guy (as a player)? He's a huge physical run blocking WR who appears to have improved as a receiver.

I get that he's not going to win a foot race but as a run first guy, I'd find a spot for him.
He regressed as a receiver last year. Including dropping some key passes early in the season. At least one that cost them a game.

And I know you said as a player, but the whole racist outburst thing is still out there.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Terpman22 said:
If Cooper is cut, even post June 1, we will still get hit with 3.8M dead money. As much as it might suck, he's gonna be here this year.
Why do people hate this guy (as a player)? He's a huge physical run blocking WR who appears to have improved as a receiver.

I get that he's not going to win a foot race but as a run first guy, I'd find a spot for him.
he was ranked dead last at WR by several rating sites, his run blocking wasnt good, he dropped tds left and right, his yards after the catch were dismal, ran bad routes that led directly to interceptions, played so bad the qbs had 0 confidence in him, sanchez was willing to throw into triple coverage at anyone besides a wide open cooper, got a 20+ million dollar contract to give practice squad results, and he's a racist ####### IRL.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Terpman22 said:
If Cooper is cut, even post June 1, we will still get hit with 3.8M dead money. As much as it might suck, he's gonna be here this year.
Why do people hate this guy (as a player)? He's a huge physical run blocking WR who appears to have improved as a receiver.

I get that he's not going to win a foot race but as a run first guy, I'd find a spot for him.
He's a WR3 talent (NFL wise not fantasy if that's your POV) who's been starting for 2 years and except for a stretch where he made a heap of deep ball catches, he underperforms. There are some things he does really well, he has good hands, tracks ball well in the air and he's physical but he has athletic limitations that make it hard for him to separate against outside CBs on short/medium routes meaning he struggles to get open.

Plus, he's still here and Jackson and Maclin aren't. Then there's that huge racism thing.

 
Tool said:
Ash said:
Does moving it back really change the % that much? Don't have the numbers, I'd imagine the success rate of 33 TD FG's is pretty high.
It drops from 99% to 93%.

See http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/19/8606641/nfl-rule-changes-extra-point-2-point-conversion-approved
Should be a bit better than that, as FGs can be from either hash with less error margin, but XPs will be from right in front. This new rule doesn't change much IMO.

Would like to see the stats on goal to go plays from the 2 for comparison. Expected point value of the XP kick would be about .95 or so, I think the 2pt tries will still be not too common due to the risk of going 0/3 or 1/4 and ending up needing an extra score. Not sure what the best thing is here but not in favour of overly weighting a very small number of plays over the course of the game in determining the outcome.
While we are discussing this in the Eagles thread, it does slightly change based on your coach. If you calculate the .95 per XP attempt, to likely be about the same as a 2 pointer, would that affect us more then other teams? It's no secret at all that Chip loves going for 2. Hell, he'd go for 2 in college after his first td almost every time.

He hasn't much in the NFL as he is smart and adjusting, but if the gap DOES shrink between a 1 and 2 point attempt, and if it's arguably a toss up, don't you think if any NFL coach does it, that it will be Chip? Wonder if we lead the league in 2 point attempts next year. Especially if we keep TT.
To look at it from a game theory point of view, high variance strategies like this are more appealing to bad teams than good ones, since the good teams don't have to take as many risks to win. Having different yard start points also takes the surprise element out of play though which is disappointing.

That said, it does seem like the kind of thing Chip would like to do if he thinks the odds favour it, regardless of the conventional wisdom. Like running on 3rd and 3.

I'd like to see the idea of no kicking after a TD, just a football play. From the 1 yard line for 1pt, from the 2 for 2. A 33yd FG is still basically automatic, all this new rule does is eliminate the surprise 2pt play.

Edit: If Chip thinks he can do something play or personnel wise that gives him a 60% chance of converting rather than 50% he might do it regularly.

Also I think we need to be wary of projecting any coach's college behaviour to the NFL. NFL games are harder to win, and you don't need to run up the score to boost your ranking.
93% is not basically automatic. 99.5% or whatever it was before was.
It will be higher than that % because all the kicks will be down the middle but there's also a psychology element. If the odds of success for anything are around 95%, the 5% is mostly out of mind. How many coaches go for it on 4th and 1 from the 15? Almost never happens, they take the (perceived) automatic 3 instead of going for another set of downs and more chances at 7 and the payoff for that risk is potentially 4x as high.

There might be a mild flurry of 2pt attempts early in the year but I think the conservative inertia will set in pretty quickly.

 
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Terpman22 said:
If Cooper is cut, even post June 1, we will still get hit with 3.8M dead money. As much as it might suck, he's gonna be here this year.
This is true, but if he does get beat out by Agholor, Matthews, Huff and Austin at WR and factor in Ertz who rarely (never?) lines up as an inline TE then he may not make final cutdown in favour of someone younger and maybe more of an ST contributor but they would be eating some $$.

 
Just to play devils advocate, I don't think anybody sees him as more then a WR3. I believe that some of the reasons Cooper's numbers were down were due to D.Jackson getting cut, Foles underperforming then getting hurt, and Shady had a bit of a down year.

 
Just to play devils advocate, I don't think anybody sees him as more then a WR3. I believe that some of the reasons Cooper's numbers were down were due to D.Jackson getting cut, Foles underperforming then getting hurt, and Shady had a bit of a down year.
I don't think that's really playing Devil's Advocate.... that's more so agreeing what most people are saying. I don't think many Eagles fans see Cooper as a legitimate WR2.

 
Just to play devils advocate, I don't think anybody sees him as more then a WR3. I believe that some of the reasons Cooper's numbers were down were due to D.Jackson getting cut, Foles underperforming then getting hurt, and Shady had a bit of a down year.
And dropping passes that him in his weak spot, the hands.

 
This puts Cooper into perspective:

Miles Austin will also be competing for playing time. His numbers in Cleveland last year (47 catches, 568 yards, 2 TDs) were comparable to Cooper's (55 catches, 577 yards, 3 TDS), and he played 436 fewer snaps, per Pro Football Focus.
 
It'd be a very pleasant surprise if Cooper of '13 would come back this year but as many of you said I think last years version is who he is as a player.

 
Cooper is dead without Foles tendency to go deep. He doesn't work well with Bradford.

Say goodbye to Zach Ertz for the same reason.

 
Could you expand in why you think Ertz is dead? He is pretty much the most experienced pass catcher we will have out on the field most downs. Are you saying Foles has a better vertical game? Desean opening things up + Lesean is what made Riley13.

 
Could you expand in why you think Ertz is dead? He is pretty much the most experienced pass catcher we will have out on the field most downs. Are you saying Foles has a better vertical game? Desean opening things up + Lesean is what made Riley13.
In the Cooper thread that I started I stated his success was connected to Foles. I maintain that while hearing he didn't belong in the league at all and wasn't athletic. I'm not much of an Ertz fan. He's a bit overrated. He was also connected to Foles throwing deep passes over the middle for me. That's not Bradfords game.

 
Could you expand in why you think Ertz is dead? He is pretty much the most experienced pass catcher we will have out on the field most downs. Are you saying Foles has a better vertical game? Desean opening things up + Lesean is what made Riley13.
In the Cooper thread that I started I stated his success was connected to Foles. I maintain that while hearing he didn't belong in the league at all and wasn't athletic.I'm not much of an Ertz fan. He's a bit overrated. He was also connected to Foles throwing deep passes over the middle for me. That's not Bradfords game.
How do we even know what Bradford's game is based on the dreck he had to play with in St. Louis. Give the guy a chance in a legitimate offense with some skill players around him to determine what he can do IHCSH (if he can stay healthy).

 
Could you expand in why you think Ertz is dead? He is pretty much the most experienced pass catcher we will have out on the field most downs. Are you saying Foles has a better vertical game? Desean opening things up + Lesean is what made Riley13.
In the Cooper thread that I started I stated his success was connected to Foles. I maintain that while hearing he didn't belong in the league at all and wasn't athletic.I'm not much of an Ertz fan. He's a bit overrated. He was also connected to Foles throwing deep passes over the middle for me. That's not Bradfords game.
How do we even know what Bradford's game is based on the dreck he had to play with in St. Louis. Give the guy a chance in a legitimate offense with some skill players around him to determine what he can do IHCSH (if he can stay healthy).
The same way the Eagles did

 
ShaHBucks said:
dhockster said:
ShaHBucks said:
Could you expand in why you think Ertz is dead? He is pretty much the most experienced pass catcher we will have out on the field most downs. Are you saying Foles has a better vertical game? Desean opening things up + Lesean is what made Riley13.
In the Cooper thread that I started I stated his success was connected to Foles. I maintain that while hearing he didn't belong in the league at all and wasn't athletic.I'm not much of an Ertz fan. He's a bit overrated. He was also connected to Foles throwing deep passes over the middle for me. That's not Bradfords game.
How do we even know what Bradford's game is based on the dreck he had to play with in St. Louis. Give the guy a chance in a legitimate offense with some skill players around him to determine what he can do IHCSH (if he can stay healthy).
The same way the Eagles did
I like you and you know this but you're not Chip. I'm sure he sees things that we never see and has access to everything and everyone relating to Bradford. I'm sure we will see Bradford's best under Chip
 
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Terpman22 said:
Look guys. Ertz was the very first skill position player Chip ever drafted. He will get the ball a lot this season.
the great Matt Barkley class
i guess we see two different things. I feel he is a great matchup difference with his speed, size and athleticism. Not a great blocker, but a guy I feel is on the cusp of breaking out. Has steadily improved both years. Barkley was a miss. In the 4th. Who is the last Eagles 4th rounder to pan out?
 
Terpman22 said:
Look guys. Ertz was the very first skill position player Chip ever drafted. He will get the ball a lot this season.
the great Matt Barkley class
i guess we see two different things. I feel he is a great matchup difference with his speed, size and athleticism. Not a great blocker, but a guy I feel is on the cusp of breaking out. Has steadily improved both years. Barkley was a miss. In the 4th. Who is the last Eagles 4th rounder to pan out?
The kicker who shall not be named? I'm just kidding he was terrible.

 
ShaHBucks said:
dhockster said:
ShaHBucks said:
Could you expand in why you think Ertz is dead? He is pretty much the most experienced pass catcher we will have out on the field most downs. Are you saying Foles has a better vertical game? Desean opening things up + Lesean is what made Riley13.
In the Cooper thread that I started I stated his success was connected to Foles. I maintain that while hearing he didn't belong in the league at all and wasn't athletic.I'm not much of an Ertz fan. He's a bit overrated. He was also connected to Foles throwing deep passes over the middle for me. That's not Bradfords game.
How do we even know what Bradford's game is based on the dreck he had to play with in St. Louis. Give the guy a chance in a legitimate offense with some skill players around him to determine what he can do IHCSH (if he can stay healthy).
The same way the Eagles did
I like you and you know this but you're not Chip. I'm sure he sees things that we never see and has access to everything and everyone relating to Bradford. I'm sure we will see Bradford's best under Chip
If I didn't just sit though Samchez, Vick and Batkley(actually drafted this guy on purpose) I'd agree. I didn't say anything about Bradford aside from he isn't similar to Foles. He is more what Kelly has been looking for, so is Sanchez and Tebow. None of those guys, including the coach, are know for looking to exploit mismatches downfield. If you don't agree then I won't offer much resistance.

 
Terpman22 said:
Look guys. Ertz was the very first skill position player Chip ever drafted. He will get the ball a lot this season.
the great Matt Barkley class
i guess we see two different things. I feel he is a great matchup difference with his speed, size and athleticism. Not a great blocker, but a guy I feel is on the cusp of breaking out. Has steadily improved both years. Barkley was a miss. In the 4th. Who is the last Eagles 4th rounder to pan out?
at best he's a faster, less athletic Kyle Rudolph. Ertz can be a real redzone weapon if he was used that way. I don't think he will. He'll will just be mediocre(Richard Sherman voice).
 
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Terpman22 said:
Look guys. Ertz was the very first skill position player Chip ever drafted. He will get the ball a lot this season.
wasn't James Casey the first skill position player Chip signed as a FA?
yeah. And then he didn't expect Ertz to be where he was and essentially was replaced. He knew Ertz. Not sure if he knew Casey. Splitting hairs here though. If you think he's mediocre, that's fine. I don't think he's elite but I do think he has a pretty high ceiling.
 
I don't get the sudden anti-Ertz sentiment. TE's typically take until at least year 3 to do anything significant, and he's shown plenty of flashes. He isn't elite but he's likely to be a lower end fantasy TE1 and is (or will be this season) in the top half of NFL starters at the position IMO.

 
I don't get the sudden anti-Ertz sentiment. TE's typically take until at least year 3 to do anything significant, and he's shown plenty of flashes. He isn't elite but he's likely to be a lower end fantasy TE1 and is (or will be this season) in the top half of NFL starters at the position IMO.
Ertz has 2 problems, he hasn't developed much as a blocker which means he's not going to take inline TE snaps away from Celek. Not sure if that was ever the plan for him, but unless he shows dramatic strides as a blocker this year, we probably have to accept he's never going to be that kind of player.

This puts him as a "move" or matchup player in line with all the WRs plus the RBs like Sproles who are an option to flex out. IMO, the team has over invested a bit in skill position players when you consider the combination of early draft picks and FA signings. There's not enough snaps to go round and Ertz can't get on the field more than about 50% of the time (49.9% offensive snaps last year according to Football Outsiders). Look at his numbers in that context and they look pretty good. He seems to get a reasonable amount of targets considering the moderate playing time, and makes catches at a pretty good rate when he's targeted.

If you extrapolate last year's numbers to 75% playing time you get 87 catches for 1053 yards. I know that WAS game skews the stats a bit, but I think Ertz's biggest problem is getting on the field, not producing when he's in the game.

 
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I didn't say anything about Bradford aside from he isn't similar to Foles. He is more what Kelly has been looking for, so is Sanchez and Tebow. None of those guys, including the coach, are know for looking to exploit mismatches downfield. If you don't agree then I won't offer much resistance.
I still think Kelly pulled the pin on Foles too early, but I accept he saw a chance to swing for the fence with Bradford and took it. Over the last few weeks I went through Bradford's first 3 games of 2013 on the All 22 and there's a lot to like, but overall I still don't know what to make of him in some ways.

Positives:

  • Strong arm and good deep accuracy with a quick, compact release. There was one throw where he dropped a ball with touch perfectly in the bucket for Tavon Austin 40 yds downfield. Hit him in the hands and he dropped it.
  • Good at the pre snap stuff, STL did run some 4 & 5 WR formations with what looked like some option routes and he made quick decisions and got the ball to the right place.
  • Accuracy and decision making through the progression quite good. Rarely any "WTF" throws, looks safe with the football
Negatives:

  • A LOT of "Captain Checkdown" throws. Hard to say whether he just didn't trust his targets, or he's just running the plays as they're called but it was noticeable how close to the LoS a lot of those balls were thrown.
  • Didn't really seem to elevate players around him, but it's hard to know if they were just that bad.
  • Health obviously
The bottom line is Bradford has the physical talent to be in the Top 5 QB discussion as Manning/Brady/Brees retire over the next few years IF he can put it all together, and Foles' ceiling was lower, but at the same time, there's something about watching Bradford i found unconvincing, even though the talent is obvious.

He's here now though, so I hope he turns out to be an All Pro in the 2nd Act of his career. One thing's for sure, it's the defining decision of Kelly's tenure. If it hasn't worked out over the next 2 years it's hard to see Kelly still being here.

 
I didn't say anything about Bradford aside from he isn't similar to Foles. He is more what Kelly has been looking for, so is Sanchez and Tebow. None of those guys, including the coach, are know for looking to exploit mismatches downfield. If you don't agree then I won't offer much resistance.
I still think Kelly pulled the pin on Foles too early, but I accept he saw a chance to swing for the fence with Bradford and took it. Over the last few weeks I went through Bradford's first 3 games of 2013 on the All 22 and there's a lot to like, but overall I still don't know what to make of him in some ways.

Positives:

  • quick, compact release.
  • Good at the pre snap stuff
  • He made quick decisions and got the ball to the right place.
  • Accuracy and decision making through the progression quite good. Rarely any "WTF" throws, looks safe with the football
Negatives:

  • A LOT of "Captain Checkdown" throws. Hard to say whether he just didn't trust his targets, or he's just running the plays as they're called but it was noticeable how close to the LoS a lot of those balls were thrown.
  • Didn't really seem to elevate players around him, but it's hard to know if they were just that bad.
  • Health obviously
Editing your positives to make the point, but those are all the things that Chip wants. And at least the first 2 negatives seem like things that Chip and the Eagles would easily correct.

Not saying that I am totally sold on the whole thing, but based on this breakdown, it would make the whole thing seem like a big net positive.

 

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